I just dont understand why did 10G never become mainstream and is it so damn expensive? Back when 100mbit was mainstream the price of 1G was higher but nowhere near $760 for a switch. 1g is now mainstream for a decade or so, what takes it so long? Did we reach the limit of copper networking? I mean, in datacenters there has to be a enormous market for fast networking, I cannot understand why prices are still so high because on a huge market you would expect a lot a competition and fast development of hardware. Or did they completely move to different networking standards in datacenters, like fibre?
Power consumption is very high compared to gigabit, and wireless replaced ethernet for most home and small office use, thus negating economies of scale which normally would drive prices down.
It's mostly the ubiquity of 1GbE vs the handful of vendors making 10GbE parts. 1GbE PHYs are cheap as dirt, and 10GbE is two orders of magnitude more expensive... and there aren't that many people that want it yet. Once 1Gb+ throughput on 802.11ac radios becomes more commonplace instead of mostly theoretical, that would be something of a driver for consumer 10GbE.
Interesting that a few US ISPs have upcoming or available service in excess of 1Gb, I wonder what kind of connections their equipment would have
For consumer service, I'd be really surprised if it was anything but a combined modem/pretend it actually is able to achieve multi-gigabit speeds wifi router.
The real benefits for NBase-T will be 2.5/5 Gbps over exisitng Cat5e (not Cat6) upto 100m. It means we don't have to replace all those existing cable runs to benefit from the higher speed. Its fairly new but I hear that the silicon has started sampling....
The main reason behind this is that most consumer devices hardly sustain the 1Gb connection.. only some extreme consumers like heavy media servers at home that serves multi 4K stream...
so for a consumer, 1Gb is enough, and there's no devices that can make use of 10Gb for the consumer...
Some advanced/enthusiast users uses a Link Aggregation connection as a backbone of their network ( NAS -> Switch <- HTPC/Main PC ) so these can serve multi streams in the same time without any drops... but that is rare as 1Gb is enough for most users already...
Maybe pro users, like pro video editing needs these 10Gb links, but it's already rare situation to see this in a home user, a person with the need for 10Gb ethernet is already using high-end workstations with professional systems.. so it's not a consumer oriented product any more...
Personally I thought about having 10Gb as a backbone for my home network just to be future proof.. but after looking again.. I found it too expensive, and I can make 2x 1Gb Link Aggregation which much less cost and still serve me well for few years a head ( NAS + HTPC + router + Switch all with LA connections )
Your statement is ironic to me because thunderbolt is itself... a proprietary standard. For external graphics we really need a standardized "Type G" port or something that can provide all the bandwidth by itself. But that will probably never happen. For that matter, even a much tamer enclosure hosting "only" up to 150W GPUs would still be a huge boost for a laptop.
So... what are the implications of USB-C displacing HDMI and DisplayPort connectors? I know that it technically is DP over alternate mode, but it's clearly very popular. It seems like many new displays have it built in. Adaptive Sync? Latency? Would there be a penalty of some kind for sending video output through the USB bus instead of directly from the GPU?
My only experience is with a first-generation USB display that sucked immense balls.
It's just a multiplexer that sends the signal over unused pins. You only get two lanes (as opposed to the usual 4), but that's fine as long as you don't need 4k60.
You can get 4 lanes of DP. It just uses up all the differential pairs, so you have to give up USB 3.x to get it (which is why DP 1.3 is going to be such a big deal).
It IS coming from the GPU. As mentioned above, there is a multiplexer that basically unplugs the high speed lanes in the USB type C connector FROM the USB bus and then connects them TO the displayport signals directly. USB alternate mode doesnt use the superspeed usb bus. So it is basically displayport with a different cable/connector, but otherwise the same.
USB2 powered laptop screens with that sort of case have been around for longer than there was a surface. They might pre-date the ipad as well; I'm not sure exactly how long ago I first saw one.
I'd get one, at a good price and with touch input. This one doesn't seem to have touch, which is quite silly IMO. They target it as a second monitor for laptops and tablets, but I reckon it will be more useful as a touch display for a desktop system with a big non touch screen.
I definitely like the looks of the keyboard having a numpad but being able to move it. I'd prefer it to the left a lot of the time just because the keyboard and mouse are awfully wide otherwise.
That's a good start for a 10G switch, but it really needs more 10G ports to be useful. I deploy 10G all the time for my job, and we use the Intel X520, which is a generation behind, but stable as a rock and supported everywhere. It also can be found for relatively cheap (sometimes $250). At those prices it almost makes sense to build your own "switch" by just using 10G cards and directly connecting where you need it. I know in my environment I really only need 10G to my NAS, and then 10G to the workstation for media / VMs.
A Cherry Trail phone with 4GB of RAM and 256GB of storage for $350 sounds great. Now if only a certain software company that makes operating systems would be kind enough to stop it with the silly pricing that keeps budget laptops with Cherry Trail processors chained to half that much RAM and 1/8th of the storage. >.<
Why the hell do they have to make a retarded version of the zenphone with bigger battery. Give me the atom version with 5000mah battery and I'll pay good money for it
So when is that gsync monitor coming out? Seems like's it's been vaporware for a while... are they trying to work out the of the QC issues Acer has been dealing with or...???
@Ian, I am also excited that 10/t is finally coming to the consumer market! I have a NAS, and constantly have to move around ISOs and uncompressed video files/projects between my main PC and my NAS. Thankfully I get a solid 98-102MB/s... but the idea of being able to get 980MB-1GB/s sounds too good to be true! I mean, a Windows ISO would take a mere 10 secconds to transfer... heck at those speeds just use the NAS like a local HDD and write straight to and from it without ever transferring to a local disc! Thankfully for me though, the rest of my family is quite alright with gigabit Ethernet and WiFi, so having only 2 10Gb/s connections is not a bad limitation for me. They need to bring the price down a bit more before I'll bite though. $200 for an unmanaged switch with 2 10Gb/s ports and 4 1Gb/s ports, and $75-100 for each card. Still, I could see it being something when I do my next big build in a few short years.
... now if only they can do something about my 25mbps internet conneciton and 5mbps uplink...
The switches are underwhelming. We've had affordable switches with a few 10g + a bunch of 1g for awhile.
10g baseT has been a pretty epic failure so far. I managed to find a 48 port Dell 3 years ago, pretty much the only full 10G baseT available, and it was so power hungry that it couldn't keep more than 24 ports running at once. They took it back, then discontinued the line. SFP+ and twinax for cheap copper interconnects worked much better.
10GbaseT is actually a mandatory part of the Thunderbolt 3 spec, so a TB3 (USB Type-C) switch could finally bring affordable 1GB+/s transfers to consumers.
The D-Link DGS-1510-28X is even cheaper. This goes with an SFP+ approach rather than copper 10GBaseT - but given the power consumption and latency for 10GBaseT, that's no bad thing. Fibre is cheap, SR SFP+ is cheap. Direct Attach Copper is cheap. As long as you're not trying to reuse existing structured cabling, it's the logical route right now.
What I am really hoping to see in the near future are 10G ports on all the Mini-ITX boards. I have been trying to make all my new computers builds with Mini-ITX if at all possible (to get a tiny case) and I don't want to give up the graphics card slot for higher networking speeds.
I don't understand why they don't come out with a standard port that wires to into the PCI-e lanes specifically for external graphics. This way we get standardized enclosures and connections and it will support any GPU. External graphics have been an idea for over a decade. Yet they have not done this.
because not enough people need it enough to pay for it. Laptop gamers are a minority, those who aren't happy with laptop performance and know the difference between one video card and another and care enough about performance yet they don't buy a normal tower computer because they don't care about the ergonomics or have to move around THAT often are an even smaller minority.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
50 Comments
Back to Article
DanNeely - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Is the back of that phone actually made up of a bunch of triangular panels at angles to each other; or does the finish just fake the look?WorldWithoutMadness - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
It is 3D (source http://www.androidcentral.com/hands-asus-zenfone-2...Panzerknacker - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
I just dont understand why did 10G never become mainstream and is it so damn expensive? Back when 100mbit was mainstream the price of 1G was higher but nowhere near $760 for a switch. 1g is now mainstream for a decade or so, what takes it so long? Did we reach the limit of copper networking? I mean, in datacenters there has to be a enormous market for fast networking, I cannot understand why prices are still so high because on a huge market you would expect a lot a competition and fast development of hardware. Or did they completely move to different networking standards in datacenters, like fibre?Reflex - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Power consumption is very high compared to gigabit, and wireless replaced ethernet for most home and small office use, thus negating economies of scale which normally would drive prices down.Lieuchikaka - Thursday, June 2, 2016 - link
http://mavangvn.vn/ma-vang-dien-thoai/dien-thoai-s...TwistedKestrel - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
It's mostly the ubiquity of 1GbE vs the handful of vendors making 10GbE parts. 1GbE PHYs are cheap as dirt, and 10GbE is two orders of magnitude more expensive... and there aren't that many people that want it yet. Once 1Gb+ throughput on 802.11ac radios becomes more commonplace instead of mostly theoretical, that would be something of a driver for consumer 10GbE.Interesting that a few US ISPs have upcoming or available service in excess of 1Gb, I wonder what kind of connections their equipment would have
DanNeely - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
For consumer service, I'd be really surprised if it was anything but a combined modem/pretend it actually is able to achieve multi-gigabit speeds wifi router.iwod - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
They have new standard NBase-T which provides 2.5Gbps and 5Gbps on Normal CAT 6 Cable. But no idea why no company are getting products out.Alex_M - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
The real benefits for NBase-T will be 2.5/5 Gbps over exisitng Cat5e (not Cat6) upto 100m. It means we don't have to replace all those existing cable runs to benefit from the higher speed. Its fairly new but I hear that the silicon has started sampling....Lieuchikaka - Thursday, June 2, 2016 - link
http://mavangvn.vn/ma-vang-dien-thoai/dien-thoai-s...WhisperingEye - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
Panzerknacker- I don't understand why you replied to a phone question with a router question.Xajel - Sunday, January 24, 2016 - link
The main reason behind this is that most consumer devices hardly sustain the 1Gb connection.. only some extreme consumers like heavy media servers at home that serves multi 4K stream...so for a consumer, 1Gb is enough, and there's no devices that can make use of 10Gb for the consumer...
Some advanced/enthusiast users uses a Link Aggregation connection as a backbone of their network ( NAS -> Switch <- HTPC/Main PC ) so these can serve multi streams in the same time without any drops... but that is rare as 1Gb is enough for most users already...
Maybe pro users, like pro video editing needs these 10Gb links, but it's already rare situation to see this in a home user, a person with the need for 10Gb ethernet is already using high-end workstations with professional systems.. so it's not a consumer oriented product any more...
Personally I thought about having 10Gb as a backbone for my home network just to be future proof.. but after looking again.. I found it too expensive, and I can make 2x 1Gb Link Aggregation which much less cost and still serve me well for few years a head ( NAS + HTPC + router + Switch all with LA connections )
Lieuchikaka - Thursday, June 2, 2016 - link
http://mavangvn.vn/ma-vang-dien-thoai/dien-thoai-s...Lieuchikaka - Thursday, June 2, 2016 - link
http://mavangvn.vn/ma-vang-dien-thoai/dien-thoai-s...rhx123 - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Using their own standard instead of TB3 just screams of Vendor Lock-In, especially when TB3 can do 36gbps over an active cable.SirKnobsworth - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
According to Tom's, they actually require 2 type C cables too.Alexvrb - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Your statement is ironic to me because thunderbolt is itself... a proprietary standard. For external graphics we really need a standardized "Type G" port or something that can provide all the bandwidth by itself. But that will probably never happen. For that matter, even a much tamer enclosure hosting "only" up to 150W GPUs would still be a huge boost for a laptop.nathanddrews - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
So... what are the implications of USB-C displacing HDMI and DisplayPort connectors? I know that it technically is DP over alternate mode, but it's clearly very popular. It seems like many new displays have it built in. Adaptive Sync? Latency? Would there be a penalty of some kind for sending video output through the USB bus instead of directly from the GPU?My only experience is with a first-generation USB display that sucked immense balls.
SirKnobsworth - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
It's just a multiplexer that sends the signal over unused pins. You only get two lanes (as opposed to the usual 4), but that's fine as long as you don't need 4k60.Ryan Smith - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
You can get 4 lanes of DP. It just uses up all the differential pairs, so you have to give up USB 3.x to get it (which is why DP 1.3 is going to be such a big deal).SirKnobsworth - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
I was under the impression that not all devices support all 4 lanes, but I might have been mistaken.extide - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
It IS coming from the GPU. As mentioned above, there is a multiplexer that basically unplugs the high speed lanes in the USB type C connector FROM the USB bus and then connects them TO the displayport signals directly. USB alternate mode doesnt use the superspeed usb bus. So it is basically displayport with a different cable/connector, but otherwise the same.JimmaDaRustla - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Looking forward to the Z170 S - hopefully it is priced well. I kind of find it odd that it has like a dozen fan plugs, but only one M.2 slot though.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
The monitor shape looks like a Microsoft Surfa.... Nope, never, ever seen that design before.DanNeely - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
USB2 powered laptop screens with that sort of case have been around for longer than there was a surface. They might pre-date the ipad as well; I'm not sure exactly how long ago I first saw one.ddriver - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
I'd get one, at a good price and with touch input. This one doesn't seem to have touch, which is quite silly IMO. They target it as a second monitor for laptops and tablets, but I reckon it will be more useful as a touch display for a desktop system with a big non touch screen.zeeBomb - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Wow these are dope!xthetenth - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
I definitely like the looks of the keyboard having a numpad but being able to move it. I'd prefer it to the left a lot of the time just because the keyboard and mouse are awfully wide otherwise.lucam - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Still no IPad Pro review in the horizon?Shadow7037932 - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
Just like the Moto X review...randomhkkid - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
The ROG GX700 dock only contains radiators and pumps, the 980 laptop gpu is housed in the laptop itself. http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/1...hechacker1 - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
That's a good start for a 10G switch, but it really needs more 10G ports to be useful. I deploy 10G all the time for my job, and we use the Intel X520, which is a generation behind, but stable as a rock and supported everywhere. It also can be found for relatively cheap (sometimes $250). At those prices it almost makes sense to build your own "switch" by just using 10G cards and directly connecting where you need it. I know in my environment I really only need 10G to my NAS, and then 10G to the workstation for media / VMs.BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
A Cherry Trail phone with 4GB of RAM and 256GB of storage for $350 sounds great. Now if only a certain software company that makes operating systems would be kind enough to stop it with the silly pricing that keeps budget laptops with Cherry Trail processors chained to half that much RAM and 1/8th of the storage. >.<Pissedoffyouth - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
Why the hell do they have to make a retarded version of the zenphone with bigger battery. Give me the atom version with 5000mah battery and I'll pay good money for itcfineman - Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - link
So when is that gsync monitor coming out? Seems like's it's been vaporware for a while... are they trying to work out the of the QC issues Acer has been dealing with or...???CaedenV - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
@Ian, I am also excited that 10/t is finally coming to the consumer market! I have a NAS, and constantly have to move around ISOs and uncompressed video files/projects between my main PC and my NAS. Thankfully I get a solid 98-102MB/s... but the idea of being able to get 980MB-1GB/s sounds too good to be true! I mean, a Windows ISO would take a mere 10 secconds to transfer... heck at those speeds just use the NAS like a local HDD and write straight to and from it without ever transferring to a local disc!Thankfully for me though, the rest of my family is quite alright with gigabit Ethernet and WiFi, so having only 2 10Gb/s connections is not a bad limitation for me. They need to bring the price down a bit more before I'll bite though. $200 for an unmanaged switch with 2 10Gb/s ports and 4 1Gb/s ports, and $75-100 for each card. Still, I could see it being something when I do my next big build in a few short years.
... now if only they can do something about my 25mbps internet conneciton and 5mbps uplink...
sor - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
The switches are underwhelming. We've had affordable switches with a few 10g + a bunch of 1g for awhile.10g baseT has been a pretty epic failure so far. I managed to find a 48 port Dell 3 years ago, pretty much the only full 10G baseT available, and it was so power hungry that it couldn't keep more than 24 ports running at once. They took it back, then discontinued the line. SFP+ and twinax for cheap copper interconnects worked much better.
merikafyeah - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
10GbaseT is actually a mandatory part of the Thunderbolt 3 spec, so a TB3 (USB Type-C) switch could finally bring affordable 1GB+/s transfers to consumers.noeldillabough - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
Will 10G work reliably over Cat6/6a? Or do we need to use Cat7/8 etc?sor - Thursday, January 21, 2016 - link
6a is the standard for 10g baseT. There are other types floating around like 6e, 7, 7a, etc, but none are standards based, mostly marketing.pixelstuff - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
Or for $530 at Netgear GS728TX-100NES which gives 4 10GB ports and 24 1GB ports.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OZCFVVC
thewishy - Thursday, January 21, 2016 - link
The D-Link DGS-1510-28X is even cheaper. This goes with an SFP+ approach rather than copper 10GBaseT - but given the power consumption and latency for 10GBaseT, that's no bad thing.Fibre is cheap, SR SFP+ is cheap. Direct Attach Copper is cheap. As long as you're not trying to reuse existing structured cabling, it's the logical route right now.
nils_ - Sunday, January 24, 2016 - link
SFP+ DA is cheap? I think the last time I had to pay around 60 EUR for a 3m cable...pixelstuff - Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - link
What I am really hoping to see in the near future are 10G ports on all the Mini-ITX boards. I have been trying to make all my new computers builds with Mini-ITX if at all possible (to get a tiny case) and I don't want to give up the graphics card slot for higher networking speeds.nils_ - Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - link
PCIe lanes may still pose a problem there, although with DMI 3.0 there are now more options.azrael- - Thursday, January 21, 2016 - link
No C236 motherboard? ASUS, I am disappoint!06GTOSC - Thursday, January 21, 2016 - link
I don't understand why they don't come out with a standard port that wires to into the PCI-e lanes specifically for external graphics. This way we get standardized enclosures and connections and it will support any GPU. External graphics have been an idea for over a decade. Yet they have not done this.Murloc - Thursday, January 21, 2016 - link
because not enough people need it enough to pay for it.Laptop gamers are a minority, those who aren't happy with laptop performance and know the difference between one video card and another and care enough about performance yet they don't buy a normal tower computer because they don't care about the ergonomics or have to move around THAT often are an even smaller minority.
newcracksoftware - Monday, February 1, 2016 - link
thanks for the one who had created this article.Lieuchikaka - Thursday, June 2, 2016 - link
http://mavangvn.vn/ma-vang-dien-thoai/dien-thoai-s...my phonne