"This helps Intel and its partners to better position their products for personal and professional usage."
Why would a honest publication make marketing statements like this one instead of saying it as it is, it allows them to earn more by blocking Xeons on cheaper mobos. AT always forgets who they are supposed to be serving.
While I usually don't go for the whole "always forgets who they are supposed to be serving" nonsense, I do agree that a spade should be called a spade, and right here, Intel is indeed forcing more differentiation for no consumer-friendly reason.
I mean, come on, why can't I get a multiplier-unlocked E3 Xeon that I can use with ECC memory? Or a multiplier-unlocked E5-2600 series chip, with ECC enabled? Sure, neither has any benefit in the short term, but in the longer term, when I retire a PC from desktop duty, it'll end up in server usage most likely, in which case I do want ECC memory as I disable the overclock.
Mr. Anton Shilov, how come no mention of the fact that the Asus model only has one PCIe x16, the other one being limited to x4? I understand that Asus feeds you the texts but Anand is printing them. A little due diligence would go a long way to show you care for your users.
This isn't a gaming motherboard. It just has the gaming paintjob. And it relies on the common misconception that if it has server parts it must be fast. Servers are fast, right? In reality it's too barren to be a proper desktop motherboard, let alone a gaming one.
The main reason is lack of competition. Right now, AMD isn't competitive. Intel's main competitor is itself, meaning they're competing against their older products. They don't want you to repurpose older parts for new duties, they want you to buy new stuff.
LOL retire for a server. You want a cheap real server just get a used Dell 1950 or R620, both cheap an blow this thing out of the water for server use.
The statement says "this helps Intel", not "this helps the public".
I don't know Anandtech's policy on native advertisements (if they exist, if they're disclosed, etc.), but I don't see how that particular sentence can be considered marketing.
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but you guys have done a pretty good job toning down the ads lately. I complained about this in a news article a few months ago, and it seems to have improved since then. I appreciate it. It was overwhelming there for a little while for those of us who don't use adblock because we want to support our favorite sites.
I just read it as meaning that Intel and motherboard manufacturers have fewer CPUs to vet their chipsets with since consumer and enterprise don't need any sort of intercompatibility.
Anton is a relatively new contributor to this site and he seems to fit the new strategy perfectly. I do not believe that AT has forgotten about "us," enthusiasts, developers, and engineering types. However we have certainly been outnumbered and displaced by a larger, more generalized and more pedestrian readership, and AT needs greater quantity over quality of content to keep pace and this will ultimately cost them some discriminating readers that they can afford to lose.
The pipeline stories and full-width ads, while easy to ignore, are the necessary but greasy rudiments they need to lubricate this flim-flam machine so that they can afford to host all this crap and maybe put out 5-10 truly quality articles per year.
They need guys like Anton who really know the hardware and can both pump out content quickly and dumb it down for most readers. This is tech journalism's answer to the drive-thru window and Anandtech must work with the most common denominator of audiences in order to stay relevant.
Since the pipeline stories are essentially just paraphrased press releases and are certain to be reposted verbatim on every site, it would not kill the Anandtech writers to bring something unique, some familiarity or expertise to the topic, rather than demonstrating your distance from it and duplicating whatever comes from the Manufacturer's site. Tons of other sites have run this story already, so rather than solidify the mediocrity of this coverage by rewording the same crap, you could try to do something unique, or something speculative, to stand out among the others.
For instance, what exactly is the purpose of the second image in the article? Why is it needed? Just a massive model of a CPU with the Xeon logo you got from the intel site... for what? fun? You know as well as I do that real CPUs don't even look like that, so even if its just a dumb news story, why are you posting half-assed clip art on a top tech site? You can do way better, plenty of xbit articles prove that.
Why don't you go get a real CPU, photograph it and publish it to this article, and let us know when we can expect a proper analysis, overclocking and bench tests of a genuine Xeon v5? Do your thing man, passion for tech is why most of us are still here. We are certainly not here for the press releases.
For having nothing original to say, this post is way too long. It's almost like there should be a disclaimer over the pipeline menu that says something like "these aren't real stories, we just announce new products here in order to fund the site."
Anton Shilov got fired from KitGuru for letting his personal brand preferences drive his decision to alienate AMD users by claiming that anyone who purchases AMD products bases their decision on how cool the thing looks and not on how it performs.
I'm highly disappointed to learn that AT gave him a microphone.
"The pipeline stories and full-width ads, while easy to ignore, are the necessary but greasy rudiments they need to lubricate this flim-flam machine so that they can afford to host all this crap and maybe put out 5-10 truly quality articles per year."
The fundamental purpose of the pipeline is to give us a suitable forum to write up short-form articles on things that we believe are newsworthy, but don't necessitate in-depth coverage. From our About page:
"AnandTech is primary a review and analysis website, however we also understand the need to report on smaller items that may not warrant our normal long form coverage. At the same time, these smaller news stories are deserving of the same editorial treatment as our longer articles. To service this need we have created a short form content section called Pipeline.
Pipeline's goal is to provide the same level and quality of AnandTech editorial, but for content that's better serviced by short form content (e.g. news releases, small announcements, etc…). The Pipeline team is in direct communication with the Reviews team (many of the team members have roles on both teams) and are given the same high level direction (e.g. no rumors, no sensationalism, etc…) as the rest of the AnandTech Editors.
I believe there's a need for both long and short form content, but you don't have to sacrifice quality to deliver both. We have no internal guidelines for how many Pipeline stories we post per day - we strive to post content of value, just as we do with our reviews."
I believe a Xeon gaming motherboard to be interesting and thus suitable to post in our Pipeline; we've never had anything like this before, and only have it now thanks to Intel's latest chipset changes. Whether we do a full review is still to be determined, but for the moment there's every reason to put together a short-form article pointing out what Asus and ASRock are up to. And the emphasis is on "short-form," just because an article is short doesn't mean it's being dumbed-down.
"For instance, what exactly is the purpose of the second image in the article? Why is it needed? Just a massive model of a CPU with the Xeon logo you got from the intel site... for what? fun? You know as well as I do that real CPUs don't even look like that, so even if its just a dumb news story, why are you posting half-assed clip art on a top tech site? You can do way better, plenty of xbit articles prove that."
That image is one of Intel's official images for the Xeon. Other than the text on top (which Intel has clearly added for branding purposes) that is what a Xeon looks like, and it was added to provide a bit more context to the story for anyone skimming through the article. It is entirely superfluous from the standpoint of the text, but we know that a fair number of readers here don't read every pipeline article word-for-word, so we do try to throw in some suitable images to help with skimming and to prevent the TD;DR effect.
I appreciate you taking a closer look. I just think massive stock photos or big logos or other graphics that do not support the content in the article will cheapen it.
Another example, in the HAMR pipeline story, the last image with the hard drive, cheesy flame/mirror effect, and seagate logo? it's just... why, why this cheesy image, that doesn't support the content in any way?
Because "This move is designed to let Intel screw their customers out of millions of dollars, just like multiplier locking and everything else" is more honest, draws angry letters from well-funded lawyers*, and loses them access to future Intel news more interesting than boring old press releases any idiot can download.
*Dear Intel: Please don't sue me. I'm poor anyways, not worth your trouble.
It's not clear if any of these boards actually support BCLK overclocking. If they do, they are indeed an interesting alternative for power users and gamers.
The name is stupid, named after some "professional gamer," but my old Fatal1ty MB is a rock-solid gaming PC, despite the goofy name.
I'm generally pretty eager to upgrade gaming PCs, but at this point console gaming holds more appeal. I'll build a 4K gaming PC when the time is right, but right now the PS4 and Xbox One look fantastic.
The problem I think is the article clearly states "unlike Intel Core i5, all quad-core Xeon chips for uniprocessor systems feature 8MB cache and Hyper-Threading technology" which is a false statement verified by the chart you posted. It indicates that the article was poorly fact checked and that your reader base (those that will comment) are smart enough to quickly figure these type of issues out. So could the article be corrected to remove the clearly false statement? Thanks.
I created an account just to comment on this article.
AT is becoming a joke. How is this article not a PR copy paste?
"better position their products for personal and professional usage"? What does this mean, in English? "Better milk the enthusiast crowd"?
Compare the Xenos to X5 so they actually show some sort of an advantage? Really? Where is the price and performance comparison? Because i7 is hard to find? Really? A 10sec google shows me a dozen places where it is available immediately.
Write about "enthusiasts" and then proceed to briefly acknowledge that the badly crippled C232 chipset, more in line with i3/i5 levels of performance, has serious shortcomings? That this chipset does not belong in one sentence with anything enthusiast-worthy?
Seriously, one more article like this and I am out of here. It's the worst kind of internet advertising, both inefficient and damaging to quality content that actually still appears here every now and then.
Skylake core i7's are hard to find and when you do find them they are overpriced. The corresponding xenon processors are much cheaper at present and since most enthusiasts don't need/want integrated graphics it would actually make more sense to buy one.
But Intel decided to mess with us and force a new chipset for the xenons unlike the previous generation.
I actually considered getting a xenon but I wanted a mATX board so that was a no go
I must admit I find some of this feedback to be a surprise.
To be clear, nothing here is advertising. ASRock and ASUS are making Xeon gaming motherboards. To us, this is interesting, and certainly newsworthy, which is why I had Anton create this article. We haven't had Xeon gaming boards before, as until now it has never been necessary.
That said, I do appreciate the feedback. And to that end let me throw out this question to you: how would you prefer to see this information written up as a Pipeline article? What would you like done differently?
You asked so I will give some feedback on how this could have been better and seem less like PR/Advertising/Marketing.
First - Ditch the image of the Intel Xeon Processor. That is a PR/Marketing image and frankly not needed in anyway to make the article good. Really gives the article the PR/Marketing feel right away.
Second - Be truthful about the Xeon E3 v5 processors. Quoting Anton "Moreover, unlike Intel Core i5, all quad-core Xeon chips for uniprocessor systems feature 8MB cache and Hyper-Threading technology, which means slightly higher performance in single-threaded and multi-threaded applications." Ian has already posted a chart after a reader stated that the ARK site indicated E3-1220 V5 not being listed at having Hyper-Threading. As it stands not all E3 v5 Xeon processors support Hyper-Threading and that makes Anton statement false. This as I said elsewhere smacks of poor fact checking and proof reading. Making something out to be more than it is generally is the job of PR/Marketing. AT once stood for solid factual articles even in the pipeline. Pipeline is really starting to look and read like a pig trough.
Three - What shortage of i7-6700K processors is being referenced. I can get them locally and several sites on the internet. Even Amazon has them in stock. Now if by shortage Anton was meaning to reference the current situation that the prices tend vary greatly vendor to vendor then he should have said that. However I think most of your readers will tend to agree that by shortage we expect to find them out of stock or back ordered at most if not all vendors. This is simply not the case as Google gives you 5 vendors with in stock supplies in the first 6 listings when I did a search today.
Those are just 3 points that could be handled better. It really is a sloppy piece, poorly proof read and poorly fact checked. Given that AT specifically has an article up about the E3 v5 processors that is correct in their capabilities makes statements in this article even more troubling.
You have gotten a lot of feedback in comments lately that pipeline articles are sounding more and more like PR/Marketing efforts or just poor writing that is re-using the PR/Marketing material with little or no original content. If your writers can't create compelling articles that are not drawing this type of criticism then perhaps they are not the writers AT needs or perhaps your leadership in the area of what is acceptable or tolerated is lacking. Either way AT pipeline articles have become a joke.
drzzz, thank you very much for the feedback. Just to respond to everything on a point-by-point basis.
1) I disagree to some extent. But I can see why you'd feel that way. So it's something we'll try to keep in mind.
2) Completely agreed. That is our fault for missing the non-HT processors and the article has been corrected. Thank you for pointing that out.
3) We'll have more on this later today in a separate article. But there is definitely a shortage of 6700Ks right now with the major US online retailers. Many are out of stock, others such as Newegg or the Amazon marketplace sellers are charging well over MSRP (which is what they typically do when they know supplies are tight).
Newegg is definitely price gouging by like $60+, and it's been out at Amazon (not counting merchants) for a while... I'm kind of amazed this is still ongoing, rather glad I ended up buying a combo at Newegg during the early days frenzy (and using a Premier trial to return half of the combo at no extra expense).
"how would you prefer to see this information written up as a Pipeline article?"
Well, having it not read like somebody copy-pasted an Intel press release to start. Might just be the way Anton writes, but I couldn't shake the feeling that most of this had been fed to AT by some PR flack verbatim.
"This helps Intel and its partners to better position their products for personal and professional usage."
It might be a bit of bias on my part, but really? Don't walk on eggshells here; follow that with, "Yes, Intel is once again subdividing the market hoping to squeeze a few more dollars out of their customers." At the very least, don't word it as if it's coming out of some Intel flunky's mouth.
And a bit of a niggle, but the phrase "and so on" appears in two consecutive paragraphs, and again further down. Learn how to end sentences when you've run out of things to say.
If the writers have something to say, even a paragraph or two, have at it. If it's going to go into the Cuisinart with whatever press release they just got...maybe have a second look. Maybe further section the site - companies want press releases regurgitated? Make a (clearly marked) section for that. The writers have a couple worthy paragraphs about whatever subject? Put it down and post it. The Pipeline turning into some Frankenstein's monster of actual writing mashed together with press releases kinda blows.
"We haven't had Xeon gaming boards before, as until now it has never been necessary."
That might be true, but it doesn't make it any less of a dumb product. One of those boards explicitly states that it doesn't even support ECC. <Insert Scooby Doo 'Errr?'> Then there's the lack of IPMI, and we can go on and on. It's a server motherboard in name only.
There are real stories here that led us to the point where we're being pushed gaming + server motherboards with marketing jargon that only Francois Piednoel would be proud of, and it's not the motherboards.
-Intel's persistent issues with yields at the top end on their 14nm node causing increases in pricing and decrease in availability -AMD can't get a team of engineers to screw in a lightbulb correctly nevermind in a timely manner -It's more market segmentation than we saw with previous Xeons/Core-X processors as the slightly cheaper (and completely equivalent as in it's the same frickin' processor) Xeons were compatible with consumer chipsets. Now that we can't buy those attractive E3-1230vX processors, we get these "gaming/server motherboards."
The tone of this article completely neglects the above points and provides ammunition to the notion that AT has lost sight of its readers' best interests -- at least with respect to this particular article. I don't personally feel that way, but this pipeline article certainly rubbed me the wrong way given the reality of the matter. I can completely understand that it's something of an interesting product, but what's far more interesting is how and why we've gotten to this point.
"However, starting from the Skylake generation of microprocessors Intel decided to change its approach to workstation and desktop-class PCs. To that end Xeon E3-1200 v5 microprocessors are incompatible with Intel 100-series chipsets for desktops. For Intel this helps Intel and its partners to better position their products for personal and professional usage, though practically speaking it also serves to draw a much clearer line between the Core and Xeon families, for better or worse."
That's the only place any of the points I mentioned are brought to light in the article, and the author declares that it's 'for better or worse.' I'll help you out here: it's worse. If you think it's better, you're losing sight of what AnandTech stands for.
Well, as others here have said - I'd skip the typical marketing talk. The "better position" thing sounds like it came straight from some marketing drone at Intel. I can't imagine a normal person saying something like this with a straight face.
More importantly, I'd like to hear why should I bother with a Xeon CPU with the new chipset, as opposed to an i5 or i7. It would seem to me that the mix of the high end CPU with clearly not-enthusiast-grade chipset makes no sense whatsoever for an enthusiast, prosumer or someone with money to burn. If that's because of i7 shortage - call it out and compare prices and features. Is a top of the line i7 with it's current $50 markup over MSRP worse than a Xeon with one of those new motherboards? That's what I'd consider valuable information.
Ugh, that C232. Pretty much like a B150. But C232 doesn't have VT-d. Intel is being a major dick here. All the 100 series chipsets support VT-d. Previous C222 C224 C226 chipsets all supported VT-d.
It's utterly insane how Intel has gotten a free pass on AnandTech for being major dicks -- as you so eloquently and succinctly put it -- and screwing their customers via further segmentation. The fact that this hasn't been discussed openly yet we're greeted with this joke of a pipeline story is even crazier.
It's already bad with lack of competition in the CPU market. It will be even worse if we get most of the press to give them a free pass and not call their actions what they are. Screwing their customers just because they can. I'll pass on the Skylake CPUs giving AMD the benefit of the doubt with ZEN. Because Intel feels no pressure to innovate I can easily live another year with my Sandy Bridge.
Back in the days, Intel Xeon microprocessors for uniprocessor computers were compatible with premium core-logic sets for desktops, whereas Intel Core chips could work in systems designed for Xeons. However, starting from the Skylake generation of microprocessors Intel decided to change its approach to workstation- and desktop-class PCs.
very hard to read? Even knowing that Intel locked down skylake Xeons to only their workstation chipset, I couldn't figure out that's what the author was saying.
Interesting amount of chatter amongst Intel fans. Sad about the lack of true competition but there is some hope. I ,like so many, am simply "Waiting for Zen". In the meantime my fx8350 will suffice. Even my dual gtx 680's are adequate for 2560x1440 . This is just a pause in my upgrade strategy .
So what about BCLK overclocking on the ASUS boards? Not so much for the CPU clock, but mostly for the memory clock. DDR4 makes a big difference in minimum framerates, but it needs to be clocked at 2800 or higher. I have a Xeon E3-1230 v3 (B85) with DDR3-1600. I am planning on upgrading to Skylake next year with DDR4-3200. I would consider getting the Xeon, but only if you could overclock it. Otherwhise I would go with an i5 and Z170.
Wake me up when there's a decent C236-based board available. The C232 chipset is way too stripped down for my taste (or rather, too much functionality has been fused off). What I want is a proper follow-up to the ASUS P8C WS (which I'm using) or the P9D WS. Perhaps even in a smaller (mATX) form factor. Is it really too much to ask for a workstation/desktop board using the best available chipset for Skylake Xeon E3s?
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jjj - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
"This helps Intel and its partners to better position their products for personal and professional usage."Why would a honest publication make marketing statements like this one instead of saying it as it is, it allows them to earn more by blocking Xeons on cheaper mobos.
AT always forgets who they are supposed to be serving.
ZeDestructor - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
While I usually don't go for the whole "always forgets who they are supposed to be serving" nonsense, I do agree that a spade should be called a spade, and right here, Intel is indeed forcing more differentiation for no consumer-friendly reason.I mean, come on, why can't I get a multiplier-unlocked E3 Xeon that I can use with ECC memory? Or a multiplier-unlocked E5-2600 series chip, with ECC enabled? Sure, neither has any benefit in the short term, but in the longer term, when I retire a PC from desktop duty, it'll end up in server usage most likely, in which case I do want ECC memory as I disable the overclock.
ZeDestructor - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Alternatively, just flat enable ECC on the Core lineup.. it's not like the Xeons and their motherboards cost anything more...close - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
Mr. Anton Shilov, how come no mention of the fact that the Asus model only has one PCIe x16, the other one being limited to x4? I understand that Asus feeds you the texts but Anand is printing them. A little due diligence would go a long way to show you care for your users.This isn't a gaming motherboard. It just has the gaming paintjob. And it relies on the common misconception that if it has server parts it must be fast. Servers are fast, right? In reality it's too barren to be a proper desktop motherboard, let alone a gaming one.
rajod1 - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
Enable ECC on core? Xeon + ECC are for stability not kiddie overclocking fools.And server and workstation MBs do cost more. Look at super micro xeon boards. This is business stuff not home computer stuff.
Gigaplex - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
The main reason is lack of competition. Right now, AMD isn't competitive. Intel's main competitor is itself, meaning they're competing against their older products. They don't want you to repurpose older parts for new duties, they want you to buy new stuff.close - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
Gaming with one PCIe x16 and one x4?rajod1 - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
LOL retire for a server. You want a cheap real server just get a used Dell 1950 or R620, both cheap an blow this thing out of the water for server use.Morawka - Sunday, February 28, 2016 - link
i doubt core2quad X2 architecture is gonna beat even a single quad core skylake based xeonToTTenTranz - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
The statement says "this helps Intel", not "this helps the public".I don't know Anandtech's policy on native advertisements (if they exist, if they're disclosed, etc.), but I don't see how that particular sentence can be considered marketing.
Michael Bay - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
It`s just his paranoia.Ryan Smith - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
"I don't know Anandtech's policy on native advertisements (if they exist, if they're disclosed, etc.)"If we were ever to run a sponsored post or other form of native advertising, it would be disclosed. That much is non-negotiable.
Reflex - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but you guys have done a pretty good job toning down the ads lately. I complained about this in a news article a few months ago, and it seems to have improved since then. I appreciate it. It was overwhelming there for a little while for those of us who don't use adblock because we want to support our favorite sites.jordanclock - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
I just read it as meaning that Intel and motherboard manufacturers have fewer CPUs to vet their chipsets with since consumer and enterprise don't need any sort of intercompatibility.alyarb - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Anton is a relatively new contributor to this site and he seems to fit the new strategy perfectly. I do not believe that AT has forgotten about "us," enthusiasts, developers, and engineering types. However we have certainly been outnumbered and displaced by a larger, more generalized and more pedestrian readership, and AT needs greater quantity over quality of content to keep pace and this will ultimately cost them some discriminating readers that they can afford to lose.The pipeline stories and full-width ads, while easy to ignore, are the necessary but greasy rudiments they need to lubricate this flim-flam machine so that they can afford to host all this crap and maybe put out 5-10 truly quality articles per year.
They need guys like Anton who really know the hardware and can both pump out content quickly and dumb it down for most readers. This is tech journalism's answer to the drive-thru window and Anandtech must work with the most common denominator of audiences in order to stay relevant.
Since the pipeline stories are essentially just paraphrased press releases and are certain to be reposted verbatim on every site, it would not kill the Anandtech writers to bring something unique, some familiarity or expertise to the topic, rather than demonstrating your distance from it and duplicating whatever comes from the Manufacturer's site. Tons of other sites have run this story already, so rather than solidify the mediocrity of this coverage by rewording the same crap, you could try to do something unique, or something speculative, to stand out among the others.
For instance, what exactly is the purpose of the second image in the article? Why is it needed? Just a massive model of a CPU with the Xeon logo you got from the intel site... for what? fun? You know as well as I do that real CPUs don't even look like that, so even if its just a dumb news story, why are you posting half-assed clip art on a top tech site? You can do way better, plenty of xbit articles prove that.
Why don't you go get a real CPU, photograph it and publish it to this article, and let us know when we can expect a proper analysis, overclocking and bench tests of a genuine Xeon v5? Do your thing man, passion for tech is why most of us are still here. We are certainly not here for the press releases.
For having nothing original to say, this post is way too long. It's almost like there should be a disclaimer over the pipeline menu that says something like "these aren't real stories, we just announce new products here in order to fund the site."
speely - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Anton Shilov got fired from KitGuru for letting his personal brand preferences drive his decision to alienate AMD users by claiming that anyone who purchases AMD products bases their decision on how cool the thing looks and not on how it performs.I'm highly disappointed to learn that AT gave him a microphone.
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
"The pipeline stories and full-width ads, while easy to ignore, are the necessary but greasy rudiments they need to lubricate this flim-flam machine so that they can afford to host all this crap and maybe put out 5-10 truly quality articles per year."The fundamental purpose of the pipeline is to give us a suitable forum to write up short-form articles on things that we believe are newsworthy, but don't necessitate in-depth coverage. From our About page:
"AnandTech is primary a review and analysis website, however we also understand the need to report on smaller items that may not warrant our normal long form coverage. At the same time, these smaller news stories are deserving of the same editorial treatment as our longer articles. To service this need we have created a short form content section called Pipeline.
Pipeline's goal is to provide the same level and quality of AnandTech editorial, but for content that's better serviced by short form content (e.g. news releases, small announcements, etc…). The Pipeline team is in direct communication with the Reviews team (many of the team members have roles on both teams) and are given the same high level direction (e.g. no rumors, no sensationalism, etc…) as the rest of the AnandTech Editors.
I believe there's a need for both long and short form content, but you don't have to sacrifice quality to deliver both. We have no internal guidelines for how many Pipeline stories we post per day - we strive to post content of value, just as we do with our reviews."
I believe a Xeon gaming motherboard to be interesting and thus suitable to post in our Pipeline; we've never had anything like this before, and only have it now thanks to Intel's latest chipset changes. Whether we do a full review is still to be determined, but for the moment there's every reason to put together a short-form article pointing out what Asus and ASRock are up to. And the emphasis is on "short-form," just because an article is short doesn't mean it's being dumbed-down.
"For instance, what exactly is the purpose of the second image in the article? Why is it needed? Just a massive model of a CPU with the Xeon logo you got from the intel site... for what? fun? You know as well as I do that real CPUs don't even look like that, so even if its just a dumb news story, why are you posting half-assed clip art on a top tech site? You can do way better, plenty of xbit articles prove that."
That image is one of Intel's official images for the Xeon. Other than the text on top (which Intel has clearly added for branding purposes) that is what a Xeon looks like, and it was added to provide a bit more context to the story for anyone skimming through the article. It is entirely superfluous from the standpoint of the text, but we know that a fair number of readers here don't read every pipeline article word-for-word, so we do try to throw in some suitable images to help with skimming and to prevent the TD;DR effect.
alyarb - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
I appreciate you taking a closer look. I just think massive stock photos or big logos or other graphics that do not support the content in the article will cheapen it.Another example, in the HAMR pipeline story, the last image with the hard drive, cheesy flame/mirror effect, and seagate logo? it's just... why, why this cheesy image, that doesn't support the content in any way?
Lord of the Bored - Thursday, December 31, 2015 - link
Because "This move is designed to let Intel screw their customers out of millions of dollars, just like multiplier locking and everything else" is more honest, draws angry letters from well-funded lawyers*, and loses them access to future Intel news more interesting than boring old press releases any idiot can download.*Dear Intel: Please don't sue me. I'm poor anyways, not worth your trouble.
crashtech - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
It's not clear if any of these boards actually support BCLK overclocking. If they do, they are indeed an interesting alternative for power users and gamers.shabby - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Fatal1ty loletamin - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
indeed, a Fatal1ty branded server sounds like a jokeJeffFlanagan - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
The name is stupid, named after some "professional gamer," but my old Fatal1ty MB is a rock-solid gaming PC, despite the goofy name.I'm generally pretty eager to upgrade gaming PCs, but at this point console gaming holds more appeal. I'll build a 4K gaming PC when the time is right, but right now the PS4 and Xbox One look fantastic.
Michael Bay - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Wendel is far from "some gamer", though.Or at least he was in Q3A times.
0razor1 - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
He excellent in multiple e sports and titled. Ridiculous how he managed it all!0razor1 - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
Wendel is God. His training regime is something to be admired.No joke he's had a successful series of endorsements over the *decades*.
Rocket321 - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
According to Intel ARK, the E3-1200 v5 series does not support hyper-threading. Example: http://ark.intel.com/products/88172/Intel-Xeon-Pro...Cores: 4
Threads: 4
Ian Cutress - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Eight of them do support HT, three of them do not.http://www.anandtech.com/show/9730/intel-launches-...
Check the table in the middle of the page.
Rocket321 - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Ah-ha, thanks Ian.drzzz - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Ian,The problem I think is the article clearly states "unlike Intel Core i5, all quad-core Xeon chips for uniprocessor systems feature 8MB cache and Hyper-Threading technology" which is a false statement verified by the chart you posted. It indicates that the article was poorly fact checked and that your reader base (those that will comment) are smart enough to quickly figure these type of issues out. So could the article be corrected to remove the clearly false statement? Thanks.
ognacy - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
I created an account just to comment on this article.AT is becoming a joke. How is this article not a PR copy paste?
"better position their products for personal and professional usage"? What does this mean, in English? "Better milk the enthusiast crowd"?
Compare the Xenos to X5 so they actually show some sort of an advantage? Really? Where is the price and performance comparison? Because i7 is hard to find? Really? A 10sec google shows me a dozen places where it is available immediately.
Write about "enthusiasts" and then proceed to briefly acknowledge that the badly crippled C232 chipset, more in line with i3/i5 levels of performance, has serious shortcomings? That this chipset does not belong in one sentence with anything enthusiast-worthy?
Seriously, one more article like this and I am out of here. It's the worst kind of internet advertising, both inefficient and damaging to quality content that actually still appears here every now and then.
acrobatbat - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Just a correction for youSkylake core i7's are hard to find and when you do find them they are overpriced. The corresponding xenon processors are much cheaper at present and since most enthusiasts don't need/want integrated graphics it would actually make more sense to buy one.
But Intel decided to mess with us and force a new chipset for the xenons unlike the previous generation.
I actually considered getting a xenon but I wanted a mATX board so that was a no go
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
I must admit I find some of this feedback to be a surprise.To be clear, nothing here is advertising. ASRock and ASUS are making Xeon gaming motherboards. To us, this is interesting, and certainly newsworthy, which is why I had Anton create this article. We haven't had Xeon gaming boards before, as until now it has never been necessary.
That said, I do appreciate the feedback. And to that end let me throw out this question to you: how would you prefer to see this information written up as a Pipeline article? What would you like done differently?
drzzz - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Ryan,You asked so I will give some feedback on how this could have been better and seem less like PR/Advertising/Marketing.
First - Ditch the image of the Intel Xeon Processor. That is a PR/Marketing image and frankly not needed in anyway to make the article good. Really gives the article the PR/Marketing feel right away.
Second - Be truthful about the Xeon E3 v5 processors. Quoting Anton "Moreover, unlike Intel Core i5, all quad-core Xeon chips for uniprocessor systems feature 8MB cache and Hyper-Threading technology, which means slightly higher performance in single-threaded and multi-threaded applications." Ian has already posted a chart after a reader stated that the ARK site indicated E3-1220 V5 not being listed at having Hyper-Threading. As it stands not all E3 v5 Xeon processors support Hyper-Threading and that makes Anton statement false. This as I said elsewhere smacks of poor fact checking and proof reading. Making something out to be more than it is generally is the job of PR/Marketing. AT once stood for solid factual articles even in the pipeline. Pipeline is really starting to look and read like a pig trough.
Three - What shortage of i7-6700K processors is being referenced. I can get them locally and several sites on the internet. Even Amazon has them in stock. Now if by shortage Anton was meaning to reference the current situation that the prices tend vary greatly vendor to vendor then he should have said that. However I think most of your readers will tend to agree that by shortage we expect to find them out of stock or back ordered at most if not all vendors. This is simply not the case as Google gives you 5 vendors with in stock supplies in the first 6 listings when I did a search today.
Those are just 3 points that could be handled better. It really is a sloppy piece, poorly proof read and poorly fact checked. Given that AT specifically has an article up about the E3 v5 processors that is correct in their capabilities makes statements in this article even more troubling.
You have gotten a lot of feedback in comments lately that pipeline articles are sounding more and more like PR/Marketing efforts or just poor writing that is re-using the PR/Marketing material with little or no original content. If your writers can't create compelling articles that are not drawing this type of criticism then perhaps they are not the writers AT needs or perhaps your leadership in the area of what is acceptable or tolerated is lacking. Either way AT pipeline articles have become a joke.
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
drzzz, thank you very much for the feedback. Just to respond to everything on a point-by-point basis.1) I disagree to some extent. But I can see why you'd feel that way. So it's something we'll try to keep in mind.
2) Completely agreed. That is our fault for missing the non-HT processors and the article has been corrected. Thank you for pointing that out.
3) We'll have more on this later today in a separate article. But there is definitely a shortage of 6700Ks right now with the major US online retailers. Many are out of stock, others such as Newegg or the Amazon marketplace sellers are charging well over MSRP (which is what they typically do when they know supplies are tight).
Impulses - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
Newegg is definitely price gouging by like $60+, and it's been out at Amazon (not counting merchants) for a while... I'm kind of amazed this is still ongoing, rather glad I ended up buying a combo at Newegg during the early days frenzy (and using a Premier trial to return half of the combo at no extra expense).fluxtatic - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
"how would you prefer to see this information written up as a Pipeline article?"Well, having it not read like somebody copy-pasted an Intel press release to start. Might just be the way Anton writes, but I couldn't shake the feeling that most of this had been fed to AT by some PR flack verbatim.
"This helps Intel and its partners to better position their products for personal and professional usage."
It might be a bit of bias on my part, but really? Don't walk on eggshells here; follow that with, "Yes, Intel is once again subdividing the market hoping to squeeze a few more dollars out of their customers." At the very least, don't word it as if it's coming out of some Intel flunky's mouth.
And a bit of a niggle, but the phrase "and so on" appears in two consecutive paragraphs, and again further down. Learn how to end sentences when you've run out of things to say.
If the writers have something to say, even a paragraph or two, have at it. If it's going to go into the Cuisinart with whatever press release they just got...maybe have a second look. Maybe further section the site - companies want press releases regurgitated? Make a (clearly marked) section for that. The writers have a couple worthy paragraphs about whatever subject? Put it down and post it. The Pipeline turning into some Frankenstein's monster of actual writing mashed together with press releases kinda blows.
mrdude - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
"We haven't had Xeon gaming boards before, as until now it has never been necessary."That might be true, but it doesn't make it any less of a dumb product. One of those boards explicitly states that it doesn't even support ECC. <Insert Scooby Doo 'Errr?'> Then there's the lack of IPMI, and we can go on and on. It's a server motherboard in name only.
There are real stories here that led us to the point where we're being pushed gaming + server motherboards with marketing jargon that only Francois Piednoel would be proud of, and it's not the motherboards.
-Intel's persistent issues with yields at the top end on their 14nm node causing increases in pricing and decrease in availability
-AMD can't get a team of engineers to screw in a lightbulb correctly nevermind in a timely manner
-It's more market segmentation than we saw with previous Xeons/Core-X processors as the slightly cheaper (and completely equivalent as in it's the same frickin' processor) Xeons were compatible with consumer chipsets. Now that we can't buy those attractive E3-1230vX processors, we get these "gaming/server motherboards."
The tone of this article completely neglects the above points and provides ammunition to the notion that AT has lost sight of its readers' best interests -- at least with respect to this particular article. I don't personally feel that way, but this pipeline article certainly rubbed me the wrong way given the reality of the matter. I can completely understand that it's something of an interesting product, but what's far more interesting is how and why we've gotten to this point.
"However, starting from the Skylake generation of microprocessors Intel decided to change its approach to workstation and desktop-class PCs. To that end Xeon E3-1200 v5 microprocessors are incompatible with Intel 100-series chipsets for desktops. For Intel this helps Intel and its partners to better position their products for personal and professional usage, though practically speaking it also serves to draw a much clearer line between the Core and Xeon families, for better or worse."
That's the only place any of the points I mentioned are brought to light in the article, and the author declares that it's 'for better or worse.' I'll help you out here: it's worse. If you think it's better, you're losing sight of what AnandTech stands for.
ognacy - Monday, January 4, 2016 - link
Well, as others here have said - I'd skip the typical marketing talk. The "better position" thing sounds like it came straight from some marketing drone at Intel. I can't imagine a normal person saying something like this with a straight face.More importantly, I'd like to hear why should I bother with a Xeon CPU with the new chipset, as opposed to an i5 or i7. It would seem to me that the mix of the high end CPU with clearly not-enthusiast-grade chipset makes no sense whatsoever for an enthusiast, prosumer or someone with money to burn. If that's because of i7 shortage - call it out and compare prices and features. Is a top of the line i7 with it's current $50 markup over MSRP worse than a Xeon with one of those new motherboards? That's what I'd consider valuable information.
Just my 2 cents.
lagittaja - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Ugh, that C232. Pretty much like a B150. But C232 doesn't have VT-d.Intel is being a major dick here. All the 100 series chipsets support VT-d.
Previous C222 C224 C226 chipsets all supported VT-d.
mrdude - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
It's utterly insane how Intel has gotten a free pass on AnandTech for being major dicks -- as you so eloquently and succinctly put it -- and screwing their customers via further segmentation. The fact that this hasn't been discussed openly yet we're greeted with this joke of a pipeline story is even crazier.ognacy - Monday, January 4, 2016 - link
That.It's already bad with lack of competition in the CPU market. It will be even worse if we get most of the press to give them a free pass and not call their actions what they are. Screwing their customers just because they can. I'll pass on the Skylake CPUs giving AMD the benefit of the doubt with ZEN. Because Intel feels no pressure to innovate I can easily live another year with my Sandy Bridge.
tareyza - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
is it just me or is the passage:Back in the days, Intel Xeon microprocessors for uniprocessor computers were compatible with premium core-logic sets for desktops, whereas Intel Core chips could work in systems designed for Xeons. However, starting from the Skylake generation of microprocessors Intel decided to change its approach to workstation- and desktop-class PCs.
very hard to read? Even knowing that Intel locked down skylake Xeons to only their workstation chipset, I couldn't figure out that's what the author was saying.
jwcalla - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
I can not see any point in the ones that don't support ECC ram. Really bizarre offering.Cordeaux - Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - link
Interesting amount of chatter amongst Intel fans. Sad about the lack of true competition but there is some hope. I ,like so many, am simply "Waiting for Zen". In the meantime my fx8350 will suffice. Even my dual gtx 680's are adequate for 2560x1440 . This is just a pause in my upgrade strategy .Harry Lloyd - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
So what about BCLK overclocking on the ASUS boards? Not so much for the CPU clock, but mostly for the memory clock. DDR4 makes a big difference in minimum framerates, but it needs to be clocked at 2800 or higher.I have a Xeon E3-1230 v3 (B85) with DDR3-1600. I am planning on upgrading to Skylake next year with DDR4-3200. I would consider getting the Xeon, but only if you could overclock it. Otherwhise I would go with an i5 and Z170.
azrael- - Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - link
Wake me up when there's a decent C236-based board available. The C232 chipset is way too stripped down for my taste (or rather, too much functionality has been fused off). What I want is a proper follow-up to the ASUS P8C WS (which I'm using) or the P9D WS. Perhaps even in a smaller (mATX) form factor. Is it really too much to ask for a workstation/desktop board using the best available chipset for Skylake Xeon E3s?Macumazahn - Thursday, January 28, 2016 - link
Hey azreal, your wakeup call is here in the form of the Supermicro X11SAT.sna1970 - Friday, January 1, 2016 - link
are the skylake Xeons overclockable ? I guess they can be overclocked by changing the BCLK ?