Ouch, this hurts, but how could some of these cards permanently fail is beyond me... These drivers are not for ancient cards and all newer cards should be able to throttle enough to stay alive with virtually fanless cooling.
Having that poor VRM as mentioned is really throwing bad light on AMD for giving out chips to such a lousy manufacturers.
Or, it can be just random nV trolls warming their soups while the cards are intact.
While running Intel+nVidia myself (and beeing very happy with it), I do not wish to see monopoly on cpu, gpu or any other component. Competition boosts evolution (both price and performance).
I could be wildly of-base here (haven't used an AMD card daily for a while, so not completely familiar with their overclocking process), but many of those with issues with the fan profile are those who have been doing some overclocking. This will often involve changing voltage limits as well as clock speed and fan profiles. If somehow that increase in voltage is getting 'stuck' at the desired value, but the fan speed is getting stuck at 20%, then that could be stressing otherwise compliant VRMs or GPUs beyond what they are capable of surviving.
Yeah I'd bet most of the cards that are failing despite the chip throttling were overclocked and overvolted, and thus pushing components closer to their limits from the start. So I could see a card with marginal VRMs failing entirely, despite all throttling efforts by the chip.
The OEMs will no doubt replace anything under warranty, at the very least.
I have no doubt that this is causing some cards to fail, just like it did the last time Nvidia drivers ended up with a fan issue that was overheating cards.
A software-based failsafe doesn't always work the way it should. If the software is reporting the wrong temperature from the onboard sensors, or the sensors are faulty to begin with, its gonna keep heating up under load and fry the card.
Not to mention that it wouldn't be the first time OEMs cut corners on manufacturing and some sub-standard components made it onto cards. They might work just fine under normal circumstances but be more prone to failure in a sudden overheating situation.
The thermal ramp ups on a card happen very quickly when I run a stress test. 30 C in just a couple of seconds. Could this be enough time to crunch some components? I would not have thought so...
@HollyDOL: "Having that poor VRM as mentioned is really throwing bad light on AMD for giving out chips to such a lousy manufacturers."
If this is indeed the issue, then it just goes to show that not all manufacturers are equal and we shouldn't treat cards with the same GPU from different manufacturers as equal. Unfortunately, similar to how Microsoft takes flak for all the cheap, low quality laptops running windows, AMD will probably take the heat for this even if the board manufacturer designed to card completely out of spec.
@HollyDOL: "Or, it can be just random nV trolls warming their soups while the cards are intact."
Just how many cards are failing? I doubt there are that many nV trolls, or at least nV trolls willing to purchase ATi products to "warm their soups". Even if the intent is just to wrap it in thermite, I wouldn't think an nV troll would want to spend money supporting ATi.
On second thought, that would be a fantastic way to float AMD until their next gen products launch. Set up an AMD demolish party organized by AMD on the DL. Get nVidia trolls to purchase ATi cards and Intel trolls to purchase AMD processors. Compete for the most spectacular and/or expensive demolition of said products. Nice way to both clear inventory and drum up a little revenue.
Since the day the drivers were released i've had this issue. BTW it also causes the power limit setting to get stuck but memory and clock settings get reset upon a reboot. I am using an ASUS DirectCU II Radeon R9 280. Not to mention there is no longer an option to set the video dynamic range. I just love being forced into using the 16-235 color range. The washed out video is very pleasing!
I've honestly never had an issue with any recent AMD drivers but this one really made up for those years of trouble free operation. I've tried tweeting AMDCare for assistance but I guess I am not famous enough to get support.
:) could you link me to proof please ? Thanks ! For a quick workaround ( pseudo fix) you should try the 16-235 -> 0-255 shader in media player classic.
How else do can you contact them for driver issues? Been using the reporting form for a long time for a specific issue in a game. No hint of anybody even look into it, was never asked for more details and never told to get lost. Can only assume it is never looked at.
On the site it says to tweet AMDCare with questions. Asked how to fix OC settings and how to enable 0-255 dynamic range... silence. But they sure do have a lot of time to reply to people with thousands of followers saying how awesome the new driver are, funny how that works isn't it?
I have been reading a lot of reports of damaged cards. So far it looks like AMD is trying to ignore that part of the issue. Hopefully a website will look at the issue closer and shed some light on just how bad this is.
I think they feel this is either a very vocal minority that can be handled by the sellers, or that it is just some people trying to get free replacement cards.
Just like some of the other commenters, I have a very hard time believing that these are overheating and frying themselves before throttling down.
Now who's to say that the undervolting isn't too drastic from the way insane temps that it could be reaching, and causing instability thusly some of the lines and flickering symptoms others were experiencing.
Yes, the pre-GCN cards are dropped after Crimson. I wonder if they'll get an updated Crimson? The last press release sounded like they'd get nothing but that first Crimson beta and nothing else.
ummm terrible news for AMD...especially when the green team is not doing anything wrong... i mean those who has old cards (that failed because of this) will probably upgrade to a 970...
You mean, upgrade to a 970 that was mis-advertised with better specs than it actually contained? And can only use 3.5GB of memory at full speed? That 970?
AMD: "Hey, look, we have a shiny new driver with biiig performance gains." Gamers: Yeah, now my card burned. Great performance. How the hell did this get past QC is beyond me.
@nagi603: "How the hell did this get past QC is beyond me."
My best guess is that this is affecting cards with factory (or non-factory) overclocks and/or custom board layouts. It is entirely likely that AMD tests these with their reference designs and perhaps a limited number of custom boards from their official release partner (Saphire I think). This would explain both how it got past QC and why AMD is leaving it to board partners to fix the issues. More data is needed to assess this, but I'd much rather AMD focus on fixing the issue and leave telling the general public why it happened until after it is fixed.
"Crimson is a departure from the Catalyst name, offering an updated interface and promising a larger range of quality assurance testing moving into the new DX12 era."
Ironic that this larger range of quality assurance leads to fried hardware.
Does this new beta work for older cards? Did older cards even encounter this issue?
I have an HD6850 in my HTPC. Never did update to the first (and final for my card) Crimson driver, but if its buggy, never will and will stick with the last catalyst driver.
Whether or not they release an update to the older cards after this will be very telling of AMD's customer support from here on out. Consequently, this has a huge impact on what I will be buying and recommending in the future.
I have 3 different computers with Radeon cards, a Gigabyte R9 290 in my personal rig, a Gigabyte 7950 in my girlfriend's rig, and a Sapphire 7750 low profile in my HTPC. All 3 are running the Crimson drivers, and none of them have had any issues.
Unfortunately there are two other issues that no one has mentioned with this release. First is the inability to disable Graphics Overdrive and the second problem, constant 3d profile settings, is a sort of a result of the aforementioned. I will deal with constant 3d settings getting activated first. I deactivate Overdrive in CCC always and let Afterburner handle my cards. I have 2d settings for anything not 3d related and I have 3d settings which are the max OC I am comfortable running for long periods. I then customize Rivtauner (RTSS) to detect the 3d app and activate the OSD.
Well, Crimson is being recognized as a 3d program. So, even with it closed out, my cards are always at the higher 3d setting. This can usually be fixed by taking an offending program, adding it to the list in RTSS, and then telling it to ignore it as a 3d program. Firefox has this problem. Certain updates turn HW Acceleration back on and will cause the cards to kick into 3d mode. Even disabling it in FF settings doesnt help (sometimes) So that is why its importatn to have control in RTSS. However, with the Crimson .exe (cnnext.exe) it can be added to RTSS, set to "off" for 3d detection, and the settings hold for only a second and then it overrides it! So far there isnt a way around this.
...:::2nd Problem - Graphics Overdrive ALL THE TIME::...
In Crimson, and even with the latest fan profile update, Graphics Overdrive CAN NOT be disabled. Why not? Who ever used CCC to tweak their card? n00bs. Crimson is no better. It misreads my stock clocks at idle. And since its automatically activating my 3d profile (and I cant stop it), it should at least correctly read the core clock and the memory clock. It doesnt. GPU-Z correctly reads it. Afterburner correctly reads. Crimson doesnt
...:::BONUS - The Uninstalling Problem:::...
Here is a bonus problem...try to uninstall Crimson. Trust me, its not going anywhere. After manual removal, a run of DDU, RadeonMod/AMD Reg Editor, showed Crimson to be gone. Reboot and its back. Not only that its in Startup. Not only is it in startup but if you search your C drive for "Radeon Settings" most of it is still there...files and folders, along with applications that you just deleted. As an added benefit your OSD from AB (after reinstalling the last good drivers) may or may not work.
Try to manually get rid of Crimson one more time. Do everything you know to get rid of it. Reboot. Is cnnext.exe still in services and running? If it isnt you got lucky. Mine is still there. After looking in my C drive (search and manual) everything looked like it was gone. No registry values either. But the reboot made the magic happen. Its all back!! Yayyy. I can never get rid of it.
NOTE: Ive tested this on two systems with nearly identical results. The system specs are as follows (BTW, same gpu's were swapped in the machines). When testing a single R9 290x Lightning was used. (Didnt want to use both as that would create more variables)
System 1: Mobo: Crosshair V F-Z CPU: FX 8350 @5ghz RAM 16gb 1866 DDR3 Corsair Dominator SSD: Samsung EVO 850 500gb HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm 2tb
System 2 (work rig) Mobo: Sabertooth z97 CPU: i5-4590 RAM: G. Skill Rip Jaws 32gb 1600mhz SSD: samsung 850 pro 256gb
EDIT: OS is Windows 8.1 on System 1 and Windows 7 on System 2. On system 2 cnnext.exe is not in startup or services but all Radeon Settings files and folders come back after reboot. I thought Crimson had an unistaller tool (multiple people swear they saw it) but can not be found on AMD site as of 12/1/15 4:04pm EST
All reported already. Even the fan control issue which is still remain in the new hotfix driver. Just to be sure, pls report it all to: http://www.amd.com/report
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HollyDOL - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
Ouch, this hurts, but how could some of these cards permanently fail is beyond me... These drivers are not for ancient cards and all newer cards should be able to throttle enough to stay alive with virtually fanless cooling.Having that poor VRM as mentioned is really throwing bad light on AMD for giving out chips to such a lousy manufacturers.
Or, it can be just random nV trolls warming their soups while the cards are intact.
While running Intel+nVidia myself (and beeing very happy with it), I do not wish to see monopoly on cpu, gpu or any other component. Competition boosts evolution (both price and performance).
edzieba - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
I could be wildly of-base here (haven't used an AMD card daily for a while, so not completely familiar with their overclocking process), but many of those with issues with the fan profile are those who have been doing some overclocking. This will often involve changing voltage limits as well as clock speed and fan profiles. If somehow that increase in voltage is getting 'stuck' at the desired value, but the fan speed is getting stuck at 20%, then that could be stressing otherwise compliant VRMs or GPUs beyond what they are capable of surviving.HollyDOL - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
That sounds logical, it could be the cause.Alexvrb - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Yeah I'd bet most of the cards that are failing despite the chip throttling were overclocked and overvolted, and thus pushing components closer to their limits from the start. So I could see a card with marginal VRMs failing entirely, despite all throttling efforts by the chip.The OEMs will no doubt replace anything under warranty, at the very least.
Mushkins - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
I have no doubt that this is causing some cards to fail, just like it did the last time Nvidia drivers ended up with a fan issue that was overheating cards.A software-based failsafe doesn't always work the way it should. If the software is reporting the wrong temperature from the onboard sensors, or the sensors are faulty to begin with, its gonna keep heating up under load and fry the card.
Not to mention that it wouldn't be the first time OEMs cut corners on manufacturing and some sub-standard components made it onto cards. They might work just fine under normal circumstances but be more prone to failure in a sudden overheating situation.
johnpombrio - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
The thermal ramp ups on a card happen very quickly when I run a stress test. 30 C in just a couple of seconds. Could this be enough time to crunch some components? I would not have thought so...Michael Bay - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
I for one always knew it`s random nV trolls that make AMD screw up again and again, not some other factor.BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
@HollyDOL: "Having that poor VRM as mentioned is really throwing bad light on AMD for giving out chips to such a lousy manufacturers."If this is indeed the issue, then it just goes to show that not all manufacturers are equal and we shouldn't treat cards with the same GPU from different manufacturers as equal. Unfortunately, similar to how Microsoft takes flak for all the cheap, low quality laptops running windows, AMD will probably take the heat for this even if the board manufacturer designed to card completely out of spec.
@HollyDOL: "Or, it can be just random nV trolls warming their soups while the cards are intact."
Just how many cards are failing? I doubt there are that many nV trolls, or at least nV trolls willing to purchase ATi products to "warm their soups". Even if the intent is just to wrap it in thermite, I wouldn't think an nV troll would want to spend money supporting ATi.
On second thought, that would be a fantastic way to float AMD until their next gen products launch. Set up an AMD demolish party organized by AMD on the DL. Get nVidia trolls to purchase ATi cards and Intel trolls to purchase AMD processors. Compete for the most spectacular and/or expensive demolition of said products. Nice way to both clear inventory and drum up a little revenue.
Michael Bay - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
With huge Intel and nV banners and sales representatives in the crowd this will surely bring some nice revenue to AMD, oh yes.BurntMyBacon - Wednesday, December 2, 2015 - link
Should have ended that last section with </joke>SinxarKnights - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
Since the day the drivers were released i've had this issue. BTW it also causes the power limit setting to get stuck but memory and clock settings get reset upon a reboot. I am using an ASUS DirectCU II Radeon R9 280. Not to mention there is no longer an option to set the video dynamic range. I just love being forced into using the 16-235 color range. The washed out video is very pleasing!I've honestly never had an issue with any recent AMD drivers but this one really made up for those years of trouble free operation. I've tried tweeting AMDCare for assistance but I guess I am not famous enough to get support.
MrSpadge - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
Tweeting for support? Oh dear..0razor1 - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
:) could you link me to proof please ? Thanks !For a quick workaround ( pseudo fix) you should try the 16-235 -> 0-255 shader in media player classic.
SinxarKnights - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
Proof of what?SinxarKnights - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
How else do can you contact them for driver issues? Been using the reporting form for a long time for a specific issue in a game. No hint of anybody even look into it, was never asked for more details and never told to get lost. Can only assume it is never looked at.On the site it says to tweet AMDCare with questions. Asked how to fix OC settings and how to enable 0-255 dynamic range... silence. But they sure do have a lot of time to reply to people with thousands of followers saying how awesome the new driver are, funny how that works isn't it?
madwolfa - Friday, December 4, 2015 - link
Actually I found that tweeting gives the fastest response in most cases.Wreckage - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
I have been reading a lot of reports of damaged cards. So far it looks like AMD is trying to ignore that part of the issue. Hopefully a website will look at the issue closer and shed some light on just how bad this is.Refuge - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
I think they feel this is either a very vocal minority that can be handled by the sellers, or that it is just some people trying to get free replacement cards.Just like some of the other commenters, I have a very hard time believing that these are overheating and frying themselves before throttling down.
Now who's to say that the undervolting isn't too drastic from the way insane temps that it could be reaching, and causing instability thusly some of the lines and flickering symptoms others were experiencing.
Arnulf - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Yes, they are releasing a hotfix because they are "ignoring that part of the issue".Arnulf - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
OWAIT!!11onelavaheadache - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
I'm still looking for the tons of reports of broken cards.anubis44 - Wednesday, December 2, 2015 - link
And where, pray-tell, are you reading 'a lot of reports of damaged cards?' Exactly which sites? You sound like a paid nVidia shill.johnpombrio - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
Didn't the Crimson software also included a last, one time update for some older cards? Perhaps some of these cards were affected?nagi603 - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
I have a 290X that was affected. By no means is it "old", it is still in the support list.Mr Perfect - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Yes, the pre-GCN cards are dropped after Crimson. I wonder if they'll get an updated Crimson? The last press release sounded like they'd get nothing but that first Crimson beta and nothing else.Mr Perfect - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Another poster left a link showing that the legacy cards have gotten this fix.http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/AMD...
zodiacsoulmate - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
ummm terrible news for AMD...especially when the green team is not doing anything wrong... i mean those who has old cards (that failed because of this) will probably upgrade to a 970...Creig - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
You mean, upgrade to a 970 that was mis-advertised with better specs than it actually contained? And can only use 3.5GB of memory at full speed? That 970?Michael Bay - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
It still rips AMD a new one in the market everywhere, so yes, that 970.anubis44 - Wednesday, December 2, 2015 - link
There's no 'new one' being ripped. Keep fantasizing while you get to see your card only using 3.5GB for textures, despite saying '4GB' on the box.nagi603 - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
AMD: "Hey, look, we have a shiny new driver with biiig performance gains."Gamers: Yeah, now my card burned. Great performance.
How the hell did this get past QC is beyond me.
WorldWithoutMadness - Monday, November 30, 2015 - link
but.. but... their drivers had had passed QC so far.So, nothing new except that driver broke card
BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
@nagi603: "How the hell did this get past QC is beyond me."My best guess is that this is affecting cards with factory (or non-factory) overclocks and/or custom board layouts. It is entirely likely that AMD tests these with their reference designs and perhaps a limited number of custom boards from their official release partner (Saphire I think). This would explain both how it got past QC and why AMD is leaving it to board partners to fix the issues. More data is needed to assess this, but I'd much rather AMD focus on fixing the issue and leave telling the general public why it happened until after it is fixed.
medi03 - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Except "permanent damage" is probably a lie.Gigaplex - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
"Crimson is a departure from the Catalyst name, offering an updated interface and promising a larger range of quality assurance testing moving into the new DX12 era."Ironic that this larger range of quality assurance leads to fried hardware.
BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
@GigaplexOuch. And I thought my bacon was burnt.
BuddyRich - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Does this new beta work for older cards? Did older cards even encounter this issue?I have an HD6850 in my HTPC. Never did update to the first (and final for my card) Crimson driver, but if its buggy, never will and will stick with the last catalyst driver.
BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
@BuddyRichWhether or not they release an update to the older cards after this will be very telling of AMD's customer support from here on out. Consequently, this has a huge impact on what I will be buying and recommending in the future.
wagon153 - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Yup. They released a driver for the terascale cards as well to fix the bug. http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/AMD...anubis44 - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
I have 3 different computers with Radeon cards, a Gigabyte R9 290 in my personal rig, a Gigabyte 7950 in my girlfriend's rig, and a Sapphire 7750 low profile in my HTPC. All 3 are running the Crimson drivers, and none of them have had any issues.dmatthewstewart - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Unfortunately there are two other issues that no one has mentioned with this release. First is the inability to disable Graphics Overdrive and the second problem, constant 3d profile settings, is a sort of a result of the aforementioned. I will deal with constant 3d settings getting activated first. I deactivate Overdrive in CCC always and let Afterburner handle my cards. I have 2d settings for anything not 3d related and I have 3d settings which are the max OC I am comfortable running for long periods. I then customize Rivtauner (RTSS) to detect the 3d app and activate the OSD.Well, Crimson is being recognized as a 3d program. So, even with it closed out, my cards are always at the higher 3d setting. This can usually be fixed by taking an offending program, adding it to the list in RTSS, and then telling it to ignore it as a 3d program. Firefox has this problem. Certain updates turn HW Acceleration back on and will cause the cards to kick into 3d mode. Even disabling it in FF settings doesnt help (sometimes) So that is why its importatn to have control in RTSS. However, with the Crimson .exe (cnnext.exe) it can be added to RTSS, set to "off" for 3d detection, and the settings hold for only a second and then it overrides it! So far there isnt a way around this.
...:::2nd Problem - Graphics Overdrive ALL THE TIME::...
In Crimson, and even with the latest fan profile update, Graphics Overdrive CAN NOT be disabled. Why not? Who ever used CCC to tweak their card? n00bs. Crimson is no better. It misreads my stock clocks at idle. And since its automatically activating my 3d profile (and I cant stop it), it should at least correctly read the core clock and the memory clock. It doesnt. GPU-Z correctly reads it. Afterburner correctly reads. Crimson doesnt
...:::BONUS - The Uninstalling Problem:::...
Here is a bonus problem...try to uninstall Crimson. Trust me, its not going anywhere. After manual removal, a run of DDU, RadeonMod/AMD Reg Editor, showed Crimson to be gone. Reboot and its back. Not only that its in Startup. Not only is it in startup but if you search your C drive for "Radeon Settings" most of it is still there...files and folders, along with applications that you just deleted. As an added benefit your OSD from AB (after reinstalling the last good drivers) may or may not work.
Try to manually get rid of Crimson one more time. Do everything you know to get rid of it. Reboot. Is cnnext.exe still in services and running? If it isnt you got lucky. Mine is still there. After looking in my C drive (search and manual) everything looked like it was gone. No registry values either. But the reboot made the magic happen. Its all back!! Yayyy. I can never get rid of it.
NOTE: Ive tested this on two systems with nearly identical results. The system specs are as follows (BTW, same gpu's were swapped in the machines). When testing a single R9 290x Lightning was used. (Didnt want to use both as that would create more variables)
System 1:
Mobo: Crosshair V F-Z
CPU: FX 8350 @5ghz
RAM 16gb 1866 DDR3 Corsair Dominator
SSD: Samsung EVO 850 500gb
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm 2tb
System 2 (work rig)
Mobo: Sabertooth z97
CPU: i5-4590
RAM: G. Skill Rip Jaws 32gb 1600mhz
SSD: samsung 850 pro 256gb
dmatthewstewart - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
EDIT: OS is Windows 8.1 on System 1 and Windows 7 on System 2. On system 2 cnnext.exe is not in startup or services but all Radeon Settings files and folders come back after reboot. I thought Crimson had an unistaller tool (multiple people swear they saw it) but can not be found on AMD site as of 12/1/15 4:04pm ESTsiriq - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
All reported already. Even the fan control issue which is still remain in the new hotfix driver. Just to be sure, pls report it all to: http://www.amd.com/reportjasonelmore - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
i wonder how /r/pcmasterrace will justify this mis-step by AMD..atlantico - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
Same way as the last *two* times nvidia did the exact same thing. Probably.