I wonder if AMD is so difficult to persuade OEMs to use Carrizo, or if for OEMs it's so difficult to get Carrizo. First we where expecting those SOCs at the end of 2014. They where announced in this Summer, Windows 10 introduction came and passed, and still it is easier to find gold in your back yard than a review from a big hardware site like Anandtech. Hope you get one soon.
Carrizo is a tiny chip built on 28nm technology, it's easy to manufacture and there's no shortage of wafer capacity. In fact, AMD keep taking penalties because they don't buy enough wafers according to the contract which is because they can't get customers for them. And my guess is the Windows 10 introduction came and went without much of a sales bump because people could just get a free upgrade instead of buying a new machine, it certainly won't be like Windows releases of the past. I guess we'll know in ~2 weeks when AMD releases their Q3 figures, but I don't see much hope. . The Steam hardware survey for September is out and there's little to be happy about for team red, the GTX 960 + GTX 970 market share increased by another 0.5% indicating the R300 series isn't getting many takers, while Fury is nice being a $500+ product across the line it's not going to see much volume. That said Q3 is usually the good quarter for consoles where the manufacturers are ramping up for Christmas sales, hopefully that'll keep them floating because I don't think their consumer CPU/APU/GPU sales will...
Nope, the non-pro versions had slower clockspeeds then the Pro versions. In some cases, people got lucky and the non-pros where just underclocked Pro cards. I rolled the dice on buying a 9800 non-pro and ended up with a card that had cheaper ram on it and couldn't simply be flashed into a Pro. :\
You had the Radeon 9500 or 9700 and then the faster "Pro" versions. Later you got XT, TX, GT, GTO, Cats, Pineapples, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious etc'... It was nuts.
These days the naming schemes are significantly easier.
Maybe they don't want another Llano mess on their hands. Moreover, the apparent lack of design wins certainly suggests a lack of demand.
AMD really, really need more HSA-enabled software to show what their products can do, but it's just not there. Security or no security, the performance still needs to validate the purchase.
AMD will announce a 28% drop in revenue for Q3 alone! that is game over numbers! Broadwell has overtaken all AMD APU's and basically what you have seen is the same as the GFX market. market share flatlining as companies and consumers were waiting for Fury/ 980TI. and in the CPU sector was Carizo and Broadwell. And broadwell hit it out of the park. and so did 980TI AMd saw their GFX share go from 30% in Q1 down to 18% in Q2 and now we will see the GFX sector numbers. but they wont be good at all. AMD can not make any HBM memory. which is the reason for the shortage. I dont know why. Hynix must not be getting paid I dont think.
CPU side. AMD did have wins in the APU side as the GPU was really good. but Q1 saw a flatline and Q2 was dwindling share as Broadwell was released. Q3 has been really bad in the APU sector as well. Compound that AMD has announced Q1 2017 for volume sales of Zen. which is a disaster.
Again money has to be the factor here. as they have taped out. Global foundries says they are at target yeilds. so what is the holdup. ...... its money.
Amd announces another 5% cut of the workforce. this week. And will also issue a warning on earnings as I said earlier.
If we can I am going to find out if we crowd funded AMD. if we could get Zen sooner. Maybe that is something to look into. As AMD will not make it to 2017.
I've been hearing about AMD being doomed for about ten years. Nothing of what you've said will make any difference. Zen's release was always about servers first, which were due 2H 2016, with client to follow. There doesn't appear to be an official word on when Zen is coming, however it was prioritised over K12 which would have initially meant it was brought forward, not pushed back. If there's a delay, it's far more likely to be GF's fault. Historically, it certainly fits the bill.
They still insist with the OEM when they should release their product under AMD's own brand (use Fury for starters).
Until that happens it will be AMD PR about "this desing will get OEM support and blablabla" meanwhile you can find a shiny Pokemon faster than an proper AMD notebook.
I was surprised a few months ago to find a Carrizo laptop in a general purpose homeware/electrical store. It was the stereotypical bricklike 15" inch HP with average screen - but still.. I just didn't expect to see one, especially in New Zealand.
HP is pretty big on AMD chips, I always figured they had a deal with AMD for a cut-rate price. Oddly this make some of HP's low-end notebooks more interesting because you can actually play low-end games on them well or high-end games poorly.
Hate to say it, I agree. Right now the OEMs are (it seems almost deliberate) gimping the chip with absolutely crazy design choices. 6GB RAM? Way to wipe out dual channel memory mode. HDDs instead of SSDs? Big shocker, they're going to boot slower and run slower.
Put together a simple system with a decent 1080p screen, 8GB RAM, and a 256GB SSD, and people will probably buy it since it would most likely be cheaper still than most Intel systems.
AMD FX-8800P price is probably similar to the low end non ULV dual core i5, a lot of money to actually invest in quality features such a materials, screen, sound, heat managamente, SSD.
Won't find much use when OEM's do better machines with cheap Intel chips. I'm a bit perplexed by their strategy of going Carrizo/Excavator in low/mainstream. They need chips truly built for mobile.
Excavator is, though. I mean sure, its roots suggest anything but, however a quad core CPU plus 512 shader GPU which can operate with as little as 10W, and at 15W still provides 2/3 of its performance at 35W, suggests they're doing pretty well here. Compared to their previous ULV offerings with Kaveri, Carrizo is a huge step forwards.
Also not really 2/3 of the graphics performance at 15W. A notebook with a 28W Broadwell/Skylake with Iris graphics would beat it. Both graphics and CPU, 15W Intel chips would be better overall and in much better laptops.
At 720p with everything turned down at lowest settings, Skylake will probably win a few benchmarks because of the much better IPC from the CPU cores. Turn a few settings up and AMD APU will start winning benchmarks easily against Skylake iGPU. And I am not talking about 10fps vs 11fps scenarios, but more like 30fps for AMD and 15fps for Skylake.
Any GT3 part is essentially faster or as fast, from Haswell and forward. There's simply not the kind of difference your trying to imply, not even when you go down to GT2 parts. Considering that 8700P is a more likely part, anything playable on a Carrizo is playable on a ordinary Intel CPU. Anything playable on a FX-8800P is playable on a GT3 part. So what's the point? You can get great Intel machine from 500 dollar and up.
I mean that Carrizo's 15W performance would be 2/3 that of its 35W performance.
And again, the Iris comparison is null and void purely because of the huge price difference. It's also worth bearing in mind that Broadwell on the desktop will have a faster IGP than that which goes into mobile products, purely because of the reduced power level.
Nah it's not because you get 28W Iris machines for 600 dollars. The AMD PRO machines start at 749 USD and most will ship without the 8800 part which will land at around 1000 USD. A 700 dollar FX-8800P machine at thermal and power constraints aren't really a good buy.
Yes I also meant it's less than 2/3's of the graphics performance of the chip configured for 35W. Not against any other chip.
It's really sad because a properly configured FX 8800P (FX, not Pro) in 35W and dual-channel ram at 2133 would easily compete CPU wise with Broadwell (Skylake possibly) in the i3-i5 ULV range while having at the same time easily better iGPUs and same or better battery life.
The regular Carrizo has the trust zone. I don't see see where anything physical is done differently with these chips beyond the label machine. But, if that gets them even one more design win, it is worth it.
So far as I know, the Lenovo Y700 is the only known 35W Carrizo. Someone got their hands on some tech support docs and posted relevant pages on another forum. With discrete R9 M385, 15-inch 1080p, and 60whr battery, if anyone cares. I am tempted but unsure.
Does this mean we might start setting AMD inside laptops that don't suck? With decent 1080p or better screens? With decent harddrives or ssds? That can be used for more than just web browsing?
What would nice, is if AMD forced APUs to be used only on a minimum 1080P screen. Prevent their APU from being associated with crappy screens, and I bet more people will buy AMD laptops. Force the market to move in a certain direction. If you want to make a laptop with a crappy screen go and use a cheap Intel chip. I believe this would give a realty check to the market.
These Carrizos look like more efficient versions of the Kaveris. Would be nice to have a performance comparison with the similarily 12 cored A10-7850k, and the A8-7600 in a future review. Or any of the 45W running FM2+ socket APUs.
512 stream processors, underclocked. That means less power than a R7 250 and less power than an Intel chip with integrated GT3/e graphics.
The more popular 8700 models uses 384 stream processors, underclocked. A GT2 part basically matches that so there's simply no way to point to AMD graphics as a real selling argument here. Core M would make a better laptop and is found in better laptops.
I hope AMD's 6th gen APUs or whatever, coming out soon for laptops will have some 35w TDP and 47w TDp chips! They need to clock higher in order to compete with Intel's mobile chips at all with X86 (CPU) performance. But, I'm guessing AMD will not do more than 35w, will hardly boost more than 3GHZ, won't beat a low end Skylake i3.
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yannigr2 - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
I wonder if AMD is so difficult to persuade OEMs to use Carrizo, or if for OEMs it's so difficult to get Carrizo. First we where expecting those SOCs at the end of 2014. They where announced in this Summer, Windows 10 introduction came and passed, and still it is easier to find gold in your back yard than a review from a big hardware site like Anandtech.Hope you get one soon.
Kjella - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
Carrizo is a tiny chip built on 28nm technology, it's easy to manufacture and there's no shortage of wafer capacity. In fact, AMD keep taking penalties because they don't buy enough wafers according to the contract which is because they can't get customers for them. And my guess is the Windows 10 introduction came and went without much of a sales bump because people could just get a free upgrade instead of buying a new machine, it certainly won't be like Windows releases of the past. I guess we'll know in ~2 weeks when AMD releases their Q3 figures, but I don't see much hope..
The Steam hardware survey for September is out and there's little to be happy about for team red, the GTX 960 + GTX 970 market share increased by another 0.5% indicating the R300 series isn't getting many takers, while Fury is nice being a $500+ product across the line it's not going to see much volume. That said Q3 is usually the good quarter for consoles where the manufacturers are ramping up for Christmas sales, hopefully that'll keep them floating because I don't think their consumer CPU/APU/GPU sales will...
Samus - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Yep. This.Unfortunately, I think the whole branding of this is flawed. AMD marketing dept. fail. What the hell is actually "pro" about these parts?
looncraz - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
I've always hated ATi (and now AMD's) naming scheme in that regard."Pro," for their graphics, means "cut-down."
Everywhere else, "Pro" means "one step up."
close - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Indeed, I can remember now how the 9700 and 9800 PRO were a lot weaker than the non-PRO. Weren't they? o_OI guess the PRO is because they're trying to target OEMs and large businesses, not consumer retail.
Mr Perfect - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Nope, the non-pro versions had slower clockspeeds then the Pro versions. In some cases, people got lucky and the non-pros where just underclocked Pro cards. I rolled the dice on buying a 9800 non-pro and ended up with a card that had cheaper ram on it and couldn't simply be flashed into a Pro. :\StevoLincolnite - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Not exactly.You had the Radeon 9500 or 9700 and then the faster "Pro" versions. Later you got XT, TX, GT, GTO, Cats, Pineapples, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious etc'... It was nuts.
These days the naming schemes are significantly easier.
nathanddrews - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Unless it's an OEM or mobile part.Lolimaster - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
I remember the 9800XT-PEFlunk - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
Radeon 7970 Ghz Edition. 4 numbers AND a suffix.silverblue - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
The TrustZone core. The vPro-esque features. The long support period.Also, having four cores instead of two potentially faster cores can make sense when you're doing productivity (and I don't mean compressing an MP3).
futurepastnow - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
I wonder why they didn't trot out the Opteron and FirePro brand names for this?Samus - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
SERIOUSLY.Flunk - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
Because these chips are junk and they don't want to poison the well.silverblue - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Maybe they don't want another Llano mess on their hands. Moreover, the apparent lack of design wins certainly suggests a lack of demand.AMD really, really need more HSA-enabled software to show what their products can do, but it's just not there. Security or no security, the performance still needs to validate the purchase.
nunya112 - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
AMD will announce a 28% drop in revenue for Q3 alone!that is game over numbers! Broadwell has overtaken all AMD APU's and basically what you have seen is the same as the GFX market. market share flatlining as companies and consumers were waiting for Fury/ 980TI. and in the CPU sector was Carizo and Broadwell. And broadwell hit it out of the park. and so did 980TI
AMd saw their GFX share go from 30% in Q1 down to 18% in Q2 and now we will see the GFX sector numbers. but they wont be good at all. AMD can not make any HBM memory. which is the reason for the shortage. I dont know why. Hynix must not be getting paid I dont think.
CPU side. AMD did have wins in the APU side as the GPU was really good. but Q1 saw a flatline and Q2 was dwindling share as Broadwell was released. Q3 has been really bad in the APU sector as well.
Compound that AMD has announced Q1 2017 for volume sales of Zen. which is a disaster.
Again money has to be the factor here. as they have taped out. Global foundries says they are at target yeilds. so what is the holdup. ...... its money.
Amd announces another 5% cut of the workforce. this week. And will also issue a warning on earnings as I said earlier.
If we can I am going to find out if we crowd funded AMD. if we could get Zen sooner. Maybe that is something to look into. As AMD will not make it to 2017.
silverblue - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
I've been hearing about AMD being doomed for about ten years. Nothing of what you've said will make any difference. Zen's release was always about servers first, which were due 2H 2016, with client to follow. There doesn't appear to be an official word on when Zen is coming, however it was prioritised over K12 which would have initially meant it was brought forward, not pushed back. If there's a delay, it's far more likely to be GF's fault. Historically, it certainly fits the bill.Something you might want to read as to why AMD isn't about to die: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-restructuring...
Besides, if you really think a $280+ Intel APU beating a $140 last generation AMD APU is news...
Michael Bay - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Oh, AMD would sell it for far more if only it could.Lolimaster - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
They still insist with the OEM when they should release their product under AMD's own brand (use Fury for starters).Until that happens it will be AMD PR about "this desing will get OEM support and blablabla" meanwhile you can find a shiny Pokemon faster than an proper AMD notebook.
Vesperan - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
I was surprised a few months ago to find a Carrizo laptop in a general purpose homeware/electrical store. It was the stereotypical bricklike 15" inch HP with average screen - but still.. I just didn't expect to see one, especially in New Zealand.Flunk - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
HP is pretty big on AMD chips, I always figured they had a deal with AMD for a cut-rate price. Oddly this make some of HP's low-end notebooks more interesting because you can actually play low-end games on them well or high-end games poorly.Penti - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
Fury laptop?With Carrizo? Just produce better mobile products. Their mobile GPU's doesn't really fit in at the moment.
bill.rookard - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Hate to say it, I agree. Right now the OEMs are (it seems almost deliberate) gimping the chip with absolutely crazy design choices. 6GB RAM? Way to wipe out dual channel memory mode. HDDs instead of SSDs? Big shocker, they're going to boot slower and run slower.Put together a simple system with a decent 1080p screen, 8GB RAM, and a 256GB SSD, and people will probably buy it since it would most likely be cheaper still than most Intel systems.
Lolimaster - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
A 15.6 1080p IPS screen with tiny bezel250-500GB SSD + another 2.5" slot
2x4GB DDR3 2133
FX-8800P
Aluminum Body
Similar desing as the LG Gram, Dell XPS 13
$799-899
Since AMD is not a gigantic workforce monster they could give better prices than most OEM's.
Lolimaster - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
AMD FX-8800P price is probably similar to the low end non ULV dual core i5, a lot of money to actually invest in quality features such a materials, screen, sound, heat managamente, SSD.mercucu1111 - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
DOA lolPenti - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
Won't find much use when OEM's do better machines with cheap Intel chips. I'm a bit perplexed by their strategy of going Carrizo/Excavator in low/mainstream. They need chips truly built for mobile.silverblue - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Excavator is, though. I mean sure, its roots suggest anything but, however a quad core CPU plus 512 shader GPU which can operate with as little as 10W, and at 15W still provides 2/3 of its performance at 35W, suggests they're doing pretty well here. Compared to their previous ULV offerings with Kaveri, Carrizo is a huge step forwards.Penti - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
It would have been fine years ago, but they will sell it parallel to Zen chips next year.AMD iGPU's are no selling arguments, Intel's faster any way. It's not like a 8800 with a discrete card would be enough for gaming either.
medi03 - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
Intel is faster than what?Penti - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
FX-8800P/A12-8800B graphics.Penti - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Also not really 2/3 of the graphics performance at 15W. A notebook with a 28W Broadwell/Skylake with Iris graphics would beat it. Both graphics and CPU, 15W Intel chips would be better overall and in much better laptops.yannigr2 - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
At 720p with everything turned down at lowest settings, Skylake will probably win a few benchmarks because of the much better IPC from the CPU cores. Turn a few settings up and AMD APU will start winning benchmarks easily against Skylake iGPU. And I am not talking about 10fps vs 11fps scenarios, but more like 30fps for AMD and 15fps for Skylake.Penti - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
Iris (40 or 48 EU) will ship in a lot more machines than the unconstrained 8800 part and often at lower prices.Penti - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
Also not like you can find a 700 USD Ultrabook with a FX-8800P.Penti - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
Any GT3 part is essentially faster or as fast, from Haswell and forward. There's simply not the kind of difference your trying to imply, not even when you go down to GT2 parts. Considering that 8700P is a more likely part, anything playable on a Carrizo is playable on a ordinary Intel CPU. Anything playable on a FX-8800P is playable on a GT3 part. So what's the point? You can get great Intel machine from 500 dollar and up.silverblue - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
I mean that Carrizo's 15W performance would be 2/3 that of its 35W performance.And again, the Iris comparison is null and void purely because of the huge price difference. It's also worth bearing in mind that Broadwell on the desktop will have a faster IGP than that which goes into mobile products, purely because of the reduced power level.
Penti - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
Nah it's not because you get 28W Iris machines for 600 dollars. The AMD PRO machines start at 749 USD and most will ship without the 8800 part which will land at around 1000 USD. A 700 dollar FX-8800P machine at thermal and power constraints aren't really a good buy.Yes I also meant it's less than 2/3's of the graphics performance of the chip configured for 35W. Not against any other chip.
medi03 - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
At what price?meacupla - Friday, October 2, 2015 - link
so how does it compare to an i5-6300HQ?Samus - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
It probably compares closer to a i3-2100.Cryio - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
It's really sad because a properly configured FX 8800P (FX, not Pro) in 35W and dual-channel ram at 2133 would easily compete CPU wise with Broadwell (Skylake possibly) in the i3-i5 ULV range while having at the same time easily better iGPUs and same or better battery life.The Hardcard - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
The regular Carrizo has the trust zone. I don't see see where anything physical is done differently with these chips beyond the label machine. But, if that gets them even one more design win, it is worth it.So far as I know, the Lenovo Y700 is the only known 35W Carrizo. Someone got their hands on some tech support docs and posted relevant pages on another forum. With discrete R9 M385, 15-inch 1080p, and 60whr battery, if anyone cares. I am tempted but unsure.
The Hardcard - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Although, since I don't game much, the likely 15W Elitebook with 46Whr battery is also interesting.zodiacfml - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Looks awesome but 28nm @ 15W?! It will have pretty strong competition such as the i5-5200u. I reckon it will perform similar to a Core M.phoenix_rizzen - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Does this mean we might start setting AMD inside laptops that don't suck? With decent 1080p or better screens? With decent harddrives or ssds? That can be used for more than just web browsing?That would be nice!
[email protected] - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
What would nice, is if AMD forced APUs to be used only on a minimum 1080P screen. Prevent their APU from being associated with crappy screens, and I bet more people will buy AMD laptops. Force the market to move in a certain direction. If you want to make a laptop with a crappy screen go and use a cheap Intel chip. I believe this would give a realty check to the market.Gadgety - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
Well, yes, but are they in a position, financially to "force the market to move in a certain direction"? I think they're not.BTW I was surprised the $90 Kaveri A8-7600 does 4K with the Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+motherboard. It does light gaming, too.
medi03 - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
Well, HDD is easily swappable. Chasis/Screen not so.Gadgety - Sunday, October 4, 2015 - link
These Carrizos look like more efficient versions of the Kaveris. Would be nice to have a performance comparison with the similarily 12 cored A10-7850k, and the A8-7600 in a future review. Or any of the 45W running FM2+ socket APUs.Wolfpup - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
What does the 8 GPU cores translate to in the way that's normally written? (Even if 8 is probably a more sane way of writing it...)The Xbox One's GPU has 12? (18 on the PS4?) I assume these are all GCN, so we're talking 600ish "cores" the old way, plus 2 of their newest CPU cores?
That doesn't sound bad for an all in one chip for a mid priced notebook. Hopefully they're sold to "normal" users too.
Penti - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
512 stream processors, underclocked. That means less power than a R7 250 and less power than an Intel chip with integrated GT3/e graphics.The more popular 8700 models uses 384 stream processors, underclocked. A GT2 part basically matches that so there's simply no way to point to AMD graphics as a real selling argument here. Core M would make a better laptop and is found in better laptops.
danwat1234 - Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - link
I hope AMD's 6th gen APUs or whatever, coming out soon for laptops will have some 35w TDP and 47w TDp chips! They need to clock higher in order to compete with Intel's mobile chips at all with X86 (CPU) performance. But, I'm guessing AMD will not do more than 35w, will hardly boost more than 3GHZ, won't beat a low end Skylake i3.