I think you mean that the other way around since Surface was a response to the 2010 iPad. And cover keyboards for the iPad were available way before Surface had them.
Apple wasn't going to give people the same old junky stylus Microsoft could come up with either, so worked to create something better. NEXT!
Besides, the comic says something about touch keyboard, and this has NOTHING to do with Apple's announcement since Apple has presented physical keyboard with real mechanisms in keys.
until it has street view it's not even considered a competing platform. Street view actually shows you what the building looks like, not its roof. and apple's satellite photo's aren't near as updated as googles.
You do realize Microsoft "invented" the tablet concept over 15 years ago. Look up Microsoft Courier.
Let's face it, practically every innovation in technology through the late 80's to the early 2000's was invented by Microsoft until the Diamond Rio spawned the iPod (the first real Apple innovation since the Macintosh, and no, the Newton wasn't an innovation, if you ever held one you'd know that)
Not "spot on" at all—the iPad was well supported by third-party integrated keyboards well prior (i.e. early 2010) to Microsoft's introduction of the Surface device.
Overall I vastly prefer having real Windows to iOS (much less Android). There are literally just two reasons I might still buy an iPad Pro though...
1) Apple lets reading apps lower the brightness (I think simulated through contrast controls in the app) really low, which is fantastic when reading at night.
2) An "app" for Marvel's Unlimited service. Granted, you can use it through a web browser on a Surface, but still.
Those are literally the ONLY reasons I'm considering another iPad over another Surface.
And for me, the large screen size sounds great for reading magazines and comics. 9.7" is too small, for at least a lot of books/magazines.
I really wish the iPad switched to USB though-100% of Lightning devices I've bought have had the port fail. Haven't bought another one since my 5s' port died after 10 months of being babied. (Okay, technically I don't know if the Air 1 I bought would have died in that fashion, as it kernal panicked after literally 5 minutes of use, and I returned it lol)
The lack of a real files system is, if anything, more frustrating to me now that it was even back in 2010...
iCloud now allows you so see individual folders with your files in them, and you can do whatever you like with these files. That pretty much fixes most of the problem for those who think it's a problem.
I'm sorry but your experience with lightning ports is just ridiculous. I've had half a dozen lightning devices and still have iphone 5 and iPad 4 with no issues at all. I also think lightning is infinitely more durable than usb could ever dream of. I used to work doing hardware testing and one of the devices was a speaker sick. We did over 15,000 connections between an iPod touch and the dock, and it was still flawless. To break the connector we had to actually rip it off with pliers. Lightning is durable as all hell. If my 5 is still doing great after well over 1000 connections, it sounds like you either beat up your phone or happened to get a faulty device. Anything that's produced millions upon millions of times will have issues here and there.
The only problem I have with lightning ports on the iPhone is that they get jeans pocket bunnies in them after a while which can cause inability to charge. But it's easy to clean, gently using a toothpick.
Except for the cables themselves being a garbage, piss-poor design. Even the too-short first party Apple cables die easily, let alone longer more practical third-party ones (even the supposedly reinforced ones). Have to really baby them to get any useful lifespan out of them. Being tech support in a family that uses about 50% iJunk it's really frustrating.
Meanwhile for all the other devices we've got heavily-used micro USB cables that are practically ancient by comparison that still are rock solid. Did I mention they're cheaper too? I've got even some fancy gold-plated ones that are thicker for high-draw tablets, definitely overkill but why not? They still cost a fraction of OEM Apple lightning "too short cause F you" cables.
Yep, the design of the lightning connector is great but Apple OEM lightning cable is a piece a cheap crap. It breaks easily. Probably costs more more than $1.50 to make. The authentication chip serves no other purpose except giving users no other choice but to keep them buying the easy to break crappy Apple made cables. That's monopolizing the market and no one in the U.S. Government is doing a damn thing about it. Sad really.
First came the iPad, then came keyboard covers, then a long while later came the Microsoft Surface. It's funny only to those who can't remember the chronology.
Those were circumstantial accessories. Not important to the device and did nothing to stop the ipad's decline. They were compromises. This time Apple itself showed a keyboard that directly connects to the ipad via a special connector(not BT anymore) and a stylus, both presented as CRUCIAL for "PRO" workflows. The complete package is an unwieldy large setup which lacks lapability and flexibility. Nothing PRO about it. Still the same ipad.
First came the tablet PC and then its spiritual successors, convertible laptops with digitizers that enjoyed a continued niche presence on the market. The ipad continues to be a large iphone, with or without stylus. The Surface is a complete paradigm shift. One minute you play Crossy Road, the next you have it docked, powering two 4k monitors side by side running Photoshop and Illustrator at the same time.
Woah, woah, woah... let's get our history right! First came the GRiDpad (1989), then came a variety of PDAs with pen technology and keyboards (Newton included in there!), then came other things, then....
No, it's seriously a surface RT with a good screen, a better app store but still not desktop grade program availability and a nice stylus. The stylus having angle tracking is the only thing that is a serious progression over something that's already been done and better so long ago that it's well past due for a refresh. It's not even the semi-usual apple thing where they make something with the best aspects of everything in the industry with a little bit of special fanciness, it's literally just something with most of one product's achievements with a neat thing and a bunch of downsides.
When you have no knowledge, the past always looks like the future.
iPad Pro is a tablet pretending to be a computer. It'll fail. At the very least it needs a mouse input. It will be extremely fatiguing for user to move the hand(s) over such large surface for anything than occasional clicks/touches. Painters might be OK with this (that's the best they can do anyway) but it's just a little niche.
Why does it require so much movement? Scrolling can be done anywhere, typing and keyboard shortcuts are still available... And I could have sworn people said the same thing about mice.
Not really. RT tablets were flops because they were poor copies of iOS and Android tablets. Surface 3 is no different.
And when a company comes out with a tablet several years after others, as was the case with RT, you can't say that the company that began it all has a product "like" that of the upstart. So it's correct to say that RT was an iOS or Android tablet look-alike, but not the other way around.
You're just being the typical Windows user whose frustrated by Apple success, and feel it's required to say something to put it doepwn.
Then again, when you have too much imagination even a piece of crap might look like something totally unheard of. Like the never before seen tablet with a keyboard in the smartcover and a stylus. Revolutionary.
I'm not saying it's bad or that it won't sell. But screaming "innovation" and such just makes you look like an ignorant 13 year old, thinking the world started with the shit he likes.
This runs iOS, not Windows so the keyboard is an accessory, not a must have. You criticize that which you do not understand, just like the old farts shaking their walking sticks at the music the 13 year old ignorants listen.
"This runs iOS, not Windows so the keyboard is an accessory, not a must have."
Wow, I didn't know iOS had thought control, so you can type emails without a keyboard...
My iPad Air is a toy and has been made a bearably better toy by my purchase of a keyboard case. What anyone would want a huge 'productivity' tablet for without a keyboard or stylus is doubtful.
Apple has sold a Bluetooth keyboard for the iPad since the beginning. I use when I use my iPad Mini for typing long emails and working with Pages and Numbers. My 2011 MacBook Air is my main computer, but now the iPad Pro looks like a great candidate to replace it. I'm just waiting to see how it will work with external displays like the 27" Thunderbolt display. I suspect Apple is planning new display technology with modern connectors, so we'll see.
Apple has been a productivity tablet for years before this, a stylus, and without a keyboard cover. It's been a more standardized platform, so more actual businesses adopted IPADS over android devices. It's hard to go android tablets or phones on a corporate level when there isn't the same level of quality apps, and not knowing if they will run on someones device they brought in. The last issue is probably much cured now that most low end hardware is decent now.
A keyboard is not a "must have" for Windows if you're using it as a tablet. On screen keyboards work okay, even if your tablet doesn't have an Apple logo on it.
Understand there ARE innovative elements in the new iPad Pro. These days innovation still includes big improvements on existing technology. (Preemptive innovation paradigms are rare.) Surface was a reaction to the iPad with Microsoft's insistence that a full operating system was necessary to keep the Windows train moving. Guess we saw how well that worked for them. Oh and Windows itself was a bad copy of the Mac OS UI and sanctioned by then idiot Apple CEO John Sculley after Steve Jobs left. Let's not go into the who-innovated-what argument and where the modern computer started, you'll lose.
Uh...you do know the Surface line has been successful, right? I mean I assume your "guess we saw how well that worked for them" was meant as an insult, but it's rather misfired given a) the Surface line completely rocks, and b) it's been successful.
Buuut I guess your whole post is a random anti-Microsoft screed.
Seems to be working fine with Surface Pro 3, and I'm pretty sure Surface Pro 4 will skyrocket.
New alliance between MS and OEMs such as Dell and HP will see many Surfaces pushed to corporate users through those OEM channels. This alone will be huge boost for Surface, and rightfully so - for work, iOS/Android tablets just cannot replace full desktop OS, regardless of screen size.
MS did take their sweet time to balance formula, but it looks like they did strike good balance with SP3 form factor and specs. It is already being "cloned", with Lenovo MIIX 7 bearing a flag of first SP3 clone, and I believe there will be much more to come.
So what in your mind makes this better than a Surface Pro 3? What makes it the future, but not the Surface Pro 3?
Surely it can't be simply the angle-sensing stylus and better battery life, because those are very minor things for Apple to add in order to define their own product. It can't possibly iOS, which is very much a hindrance to how productive you can be with it, since iOS applications are nowhere near their Windows/OS X counterparts in terms of functionality.
Apple tried to eliminate some of the SP3's drawbacks (namely battery life and heat output), and succeeded, but they had to sacrifice its flexibility in order to do so. It is no longer a laptop and a tablet, but simply a very large tablet. It can't run x86 applications, and it can't be used as a laptop for anything *serious* like the Surface Pro 3 can.
Admittedly, it is not *bad*, and it will sell plenty because it's an Apple product, but to imply it's the future of the Surface concept is just plain stupid. It would definitely be a far better device if it was x86 with a Core M running OS X, or if it were $200 cheaper (taking it out of price competition with the Surface Pro 3).
I really, really, really wanted it to be x86, and then the "pro" name would actually make sense.
What's obnoxious is the new Macbook is basically a freaking tablet. Just make OS X work as well as Windows does with touch, remove the keyboard, add a touch screen, and...
Sorry but there is no proof that legacy x86 windows are in fact the future. I'd argue that the pace of innovation on iOS apps is poised to leave Windows in the dust. Did you see the office demo ms did? If you believe the core m chips are more advanced than the A9X I think you should wait for some benchmarks. Better yet look at real world performance. You might be surprised what can happen when you shed the weight of legacy Windows. Microsoft wanted to do it but couldn't get developer buy in. Legacy apps will carry the surface for a while but Apple may have tipped the scale and x86 Windows may well not be the future but a dying past. We will see.
Bottom line: why is this better than surface 3 pro? Apps, speed, and user interface. What makes surface better? Legacy apps.
"So what in your mind makes this better than a Surface Pro 3?"
Much better display, lighter weight, thinner, longer battery life, better (orientation sensitive) audio, and better cameras.
"Surely it can't be simply the angle-sensing stylus and better battery life, because those are very minor things for Apple to add in order to define their own product."
They're not minor to those who utilize those features. And don't call me Shirley.
"iOS applications are nowhere near their Windows/OS X counterparts in terms of functionality"
Yeah, that's what Microsoft said at Apple's keynote.
Ah, yes, I was absolutely referring to word processing in that comment, and not 3D modelling, programming, or video editing.
Until the iPad Pro has the legacy support and power the Surface Pro 3 has, I won't see it as a true competitor, and I seriously doubt it will ever have the same legacy support. I could see the iPad Pro find a niche in artists, but artists are nowhere near the Surface Pro's only target market.
He actually called you "Surly", not "Shirley". "e" was typing error.
MS is still primarily software company. They even make software for Android. It makes them money. Same as iTunes for Windows make money for Apple. Regardless MS presentation, it was nice... but that "scribble over" tech is already working in MS new browser, Edge. It is not developed for iPad Office... and I'm sure we will see this and much more in soon-to-be-released Office 2016 for Windows. I also doubt that iOS office will have full set of features that desktop Office has. MS does want iOS users money, but they don't want it to be fully competitive with desktop counterpart. Especially now that they will be selling Surface to corporate users through Dell's and HP's supply channels. We'll see.
Why a Core M? Unless you have the top of the line Broadwell i7, or better in the Surface, the A9X has better memory throughput, is more power efficient, and pretty much dominates whatever is in the SP3. The paradigm that "only x86/Windows" can be productive has been dead for years. The App Store has pretty much filled every productivity gap that was missing unless you are the 1% doing workstation-grade work...which an SP3 has no chance of doing.
Productivity is questionable term. Performance of hardware is only one element, and nowadays, with hardware evolving quickly, while humanity's capabilities basically stagnate, performance increase is not THE factor anymore. Core 2 Duo is still fast enough to perfectly well serve usual office scenarios. Where I work, productivity means: Easy connection to multiple screens Efficient transformation between desktop and laptop/tablet modes (proper docking station) Real multitasking Connectivity to wide selection of personal and office printers, scanners etc File system Understanding of common corporate network - here in NZ it is by huge margin Windows AD. This includes applicability of group policies, certificates for remote access, and compatibility with full range of legacy apps and services Regardless of how powerful hardware in iPad is getting, software is still what it is - crippled, mobile OS platform. It is great for media consumption, it might be great for specific group of artists... but... office machine it is not. Even with Office available. It is designed to be side-kick, a companion to PC/Mac computer. Surface is PC computer that converts between desktop, laptop and tablet modes. I think there's a big difference...
The Core M processor is a dog. I have an Asus Zenbook which I regret buying. It has good battery life, but only if the processor is dialed back to energy saving mode. Otherwise it's max 2 hours.
I wouldn't ever again buy anything with a Core M. If you are in power saving mode, can take more than a few seconds to load a web page, even with a fast internet connection. It is really disgusting. I was interested in the iPad Pro, but if it's really slower than a Core M, forget it. I suspect it is probably much faster than the M over the same battery charge period.
Personally, I think the Surface Pro 3 is a good device and that MS has done a really good job with their Metro interface. But...
Software is a tricky issue for it. On one hand there is an unbelievable amount of powerful software of all kinds available. On the other hand, very, very little of it is designed for the SP3's touch interface and meanwhile the track pad is pretty crappy and using a stylus to peck at tiny UI elements is far from ideal. Not to mention that so much Windows software isn't really designed to run well on small screen like that. In the end, you can run almost anything on a SP3, but most of it isn't a very good experience. Likewise, the iPad Pro would suffer from the same problems if Apple had made it to run OS X and x86-based software.
On the other hand, everything for iPads is designed for a touch interface and small screens. (And plenty of it is "serious" software.)
Exactly. Thats what a lot of people seem to miss when they scratch their heads over the success of the iPad or Android. They think "Why are these things successful when a windows tablet has windows and it's backlog of legacy software??? That software has more functionality, so that makes it better! Why aren't people interested in better or more????"
A friend of mine, who is big Apple fan (recently converted from Windows and Android, so the newly found faith still burns bright within him) gave me this: It is bigger yet slimmer and lighter. Screen is higher res. It does not require active cooling. It has 4 speakers (!?!). So we had nice discussion about all that. Eventually, he closed his side of argument with "I'm not into Windows any more". I guess that argument made most sense to me. I used to have iPhone 3Gs and 4s, but eventually just grew out of iPhone. I'm not saying new iPhones are not good devices - butt hey just don't spark interest in me any more. It's all in the brain chemistry... some like blondes, some brunettes...
When microsoft adds features to their products, they don't put much thought into how to properly implement them. That's why nobody really cares about microsoft's attempts. For instance, they had a time machine-like functionality in their OS for many years, however most people never hear or know about it because microsoft buried the feature under a mountain of preference windows that users have to take the initiative to wander through. Apple made Time machine to be user friendly and they put it at the forefront.
Yep, almost identical. Except for the sales figures of course. I am guessing the iPad Pro will make the Surface numbers look tiny and insignificant in under 6 months.
It will be interesting for sure. I think the high price will mean this isn't a huge seller unless people are getting it subsidized somehow.
That said, I think it will be a pretty nice tablet for some people. Better battery life and portability than an SP3 is a good selling feature. Everybody I know with SP3 uses them as laptop replacements and this wouldn't be an option for them, so I'm not sure it's going to steal many surface sales. I bet there are some sales people my company who could use the iPad Pro as their only computer. I wouldn't pay $800 for it personally.
I would expect a less pandering article from Anandtech, it isn't Techradar after all.
No comment on a 'productivity' device that tops out with 128GB and has no removable storage. Blind acceptance that a single position stand is at all acceptable in 2015, let alone 2012, given the variance in peoples height and desk heights. No complaint that there is nowhere to store the stylus
While I am sure there are still the faithful that will buy it, where is the innovation that MS showed with the Surface Pro?
Where's the innovation in Surface Pro indeed? There's isn't any, at least not coming from Microsoft. Surface Pro is the same reheated tablet PC but in a somewhat saner form factor enabled by innovation coming from Intel.
You say saner form factor because it seems obvious now. It takes a really good product to be able to do something nobody else was doing or thinking and make it work so well that it's plain as day obvious once it's done and the hurdles are cleared.
It seemed obvious at least since the 1980s, but not practical to build. It did not clear any hurdles. It was just a rushed attempt by a scared Microsoft to enter a market that was booming at the time by leveraging their desktop monopoly and legacy application support.
Microsoft's been trying to build the Surface for over 15 years now, and finally has, and it's as awesome as everyone hoped it would be. There's really no comparison to what's just a giant iPod.
The tablet PC was a perennial afterthought for Microsoft. When the iPad took off they panicked and made a mess of their desktop OS in a laughable attempt to catch up.
No, what Microsoft did is take their 15 year old experimental concept platform's name and slap it onto a tablet pc with some touch support and a poorly thought out touch interface. They had tablet PC's a long time ago. On a realistic level, what does the surface really do that they don't? Oh, it has a keyboard cover. Bravo, Microsoft. Bravo.
You do understand that the apple keyboard is only one of dozens of options that will be available and that with an so that eats only a couple gigs of space and apps that are a tenth the size of Windows apps that 128 gb is acceptable?
They were looking at how well it does what it was designed to do and not trying to come up with excuses why it should fail.
Yeah, it seems like EXACTLY what we thought it would be, and way, way less than we can "imagine".
x86 with real OS X + some iOS support, THAT would have been awesome. Even a USB port and/or an SD card slot would have been really cool. Just making it physically bigger is the least impressive, most "imaginable" thing they could have done.
Why can't people see how vibrant the iOS app development is. Windows dominated the past but may not still have what it takes to hold the future. Look at the Microsoft and Adobe demos and realize this is not some weak phone os. This is the future of new productivity apps.
I'm interested that you see no issues with the absence of a trackpad. I'm a SP3 owner and I agree the trackpad is mediocre, but there are heaps of 'productivity' use-cases where I find even a mediocre trackpad far, far more effective than using any other input method (keyboard, touch or stylus). Plus, when there's proper work to do, plug in a mouse and away I go. Even something simple like text editing I find to be vastly easier with a trackpad (or better still, a mouse), common tasks like quickly selecting blocks of text or clicking precisely to an exact point in the text are mindlessly easy, which is NOT the case (in my experience) with touch or stylus. I'm struggling to see how any semi-serious document, presentation, spreadsheet, photo or video editing could work efficiently without any trackpad/mouse support.
From your write up and elsewhere it seems like the idea here is to push the iPad towards more productivity tasks, so the bigger screen and keyboard all make sense. But no mouse or trackpad support... how is that going to be productive? Am I missing something?
I have no issues with trackpad. I use 2 finger scrolling constantly and it's quite convenient. But regardless I find it hard to believe that someone would say you're better off without one...
Doesn't Windows Mobile 10 have a virtual nubbin/pointer on its keyboard ? ... perhaps Apple could "invent" that in ios 10. That would be pretty magical, probably "the best virtual pointer we have ever made" even!
It also doesn't work for video editing or anything else serious like that because it's got a small pool of slow storage that's only accessible through iTunes with a real PC.
3 simultanious 4K video streams. In iMovie on the iPad pro. This may not be a replacement for a Mac Pro but it will more than hold its own against the surface.
A big reason you find the trackpad (or mouse) more productive than touch, keyboard, or stylus is that you're using software designed for a mouse or trackpad.
It's interesting you mention text editing, because a keyboard is actually the most productive way to edit text. (I claim this as a software developer, so editing text is what I and a lot of people I've worked with do for a living.) There's a learning curve to the key-combos for selecting, moving, and navigating text, but there's not that much to it. When people fall back to a mouse or trackpad for text editing, it's actually because the *rest* of the interface in their app -- the menus, dialog boxes, tool bars, etc. are designed for pointer input and there's an annoying overhead to switching back and forth. (Particularly bad, IMO, when switching between a stylus and keyboard.) The better solution, in this case, is actually redesigning the software to depend on a pointer less.
Anyway, the software you use was designed assuming the user has ready access to a pointer which is why it works best when you use a pointer.
The iPad has never had a pointer concept and naturally, so none of the decent software assumes it has one, and instead the developers design a productive touch interface. (Well, actually some developers will port software to mobile devices as if you could just substitute a user's finger for a mouse pointer. That's a bad idea and results in a crappy interface that isn't productive at all. Some things out OK, but a lot doesn't. You end up with something that can be made to work, but is really annoying to use.)
Software will be efficient and productive for touch if it's designed to be efficient and productive for touch.
My, my. It seams you have not used many digitizers. The tilt detection functionality is nothing new. It has been a standard feature on the Wacom Intuos (original, 2, 3, 4, 5, Pro) and on all Wacom Cintiq models. I is also a feature on models from competitors like Hanvon. That being said, unfortunately, other than the Wacom Cintiq Companion models I do not know of any Windows or Android tablet that has tilt detection. The S Pen on Samsung tablets does not have this feature, even though it uses Wacom technology, making it similar to the Wacom Bamboo(now renamed to Intuos -- stupid marketing mixing up product line names). The Microsoft Surface tablets use Ntrig technology, and AFAIK do not have tilt detection.
$100 for a pencil. And they say there's no inflation! Over the next few years, schools are going to be dumping truckloads of taxpayer dollars into these ripoff pencils, which the students will conveniently lose.
"the iPad Mini 4 was only mentioned in passing in the announcement but it effectively gives you the iPad Air 2 with an A8 SoC in a mini formfactor. "
No, it doesn't give you an Air 2 in mini formfactor. It gives you an extra large iPhone 6 (without phone app). The Air 2 uses an A8x SoC which has a faster CPU, significantly faster GPU and twice the RAM.
Quite saddened by how Apple is treating the mini now with the iPad mini 3 (which was just a 2 with Touch ID) last year and now the 4 which despite being a year newer doesn't catch up with the Air 2...
As a long time fan of Apple's mini products (iPod, Mac and iPad), it's not really surprising how they are treating the iPad mini. They seem to be stuck in the mindset that mini == low end, when really it's that there are some people that prefer smaller devices without needing to sacrifice a lot of power.
Occasionally Apple gets this and we get gems like the 2012 quad core i7 Mac mini and the 2nd gen iPad mini when it came out. But then they go back to treating the mini devices as just cheaper devices.
Yet on the MacBooks the screen size is only that, screen size, apart from that there rarely much difference. Sure, the larger one might fit some extra port but you tend to have the same internals.
They already have last years mini as the cheap low end model.
It is officially confirmed (i.e. mentioned somewhere in Apple website) that iPad mini 4 supports Split View multitasking. That most likely mean it has 2GB RAM.
Seems weird to use an upgraded version of an old SoC and not somehow rebrand it, then again, Apple seem to be under the impression that RAM doesn't matter to anyone if it isn't a Mac being discussed.
Will have to wait for reviews/teardowns and see...
I hope the Mini 4 at least has 2GB. That's SOMETHING, but yeah, I forgot that the 8x is supposed to have a much larger GPU...oh, and a third CPU for that matter LOL
Oh well, I guess it's at least a bit better than the Mini 3?
Going by Apples own comparison charts that third core doesn't do much though, A8 is 1.3 times faster than the A7, the A8X is 1.4 times faster. Although maybe that's just clockspeed or something?
The GPU is a much bigger difference though with the A8 being 1.6 times faster than A7 while A8X is 2.5 times faster...
If the mini had all of the innards of the air then people would buy the mini instead of the air.
Apple's product strategy is that the products on the low end or entry level are supposed to be sort of a "meh" deal. Meanwhile, products on the higher end are supposed to be more enticing offers.
Do my lyin' eyes deceive me, or is that a "productivity device" with a 4:3 screen? Why, with that keyboard it almost starts to look like a "productivity laptop".
Interesting and curious, that actual laptops marketed as productivity devices - a.k.a. " desktop replacement" - are still mired in the purgatory of 16:9 screens...
Well, maybe some genius engineer will finally figure out to make those laptops more like them tablets. If you can't arrive at good design rationally, maybe at least you could stumble into it by analogy? Or is that still too much to hope for?
The real reason for a more square screen is they work better as a tablet. You can easily hold them in either orientation. 16:9 feels too...tall, when you're holding it portrait. Apple got the aspect ratio right with the iPad (despite all the claims to the contrary), and it's why we've seen the Nexus 9 use a similar aspect ratio, and more significantly, both the Surface Pro 3 and Surface 3.
Yeah, I'm very curious to see someone measure and compare the parallax and latency for the iPad Pro vs. SP3 vs. Cintiq, etc. People want a stylus to behave like and actual pen or pencil, and those have 0 mm parallax and 0 ms latency. We don't need it to be perfect, but something like 0.15 mm and 10 ms.
"This keyboard cover also doesn’t have a trackpad or any way to adjust the angle at which the tablet is mounted. I suspect the missing trackpad is for the better though if my experiences with the Surface Pro trackpad is anything to go by."
There won't be a trackpad ever as AFAIK iOS has no concept of a "mouse pointer", either the visuals or the underlying state required (ie. mouse position).
What, the same travel as new macbook? I tried REALLY hard to get used to new macbook but I simply cannot. I way prefer the surface keyboard (which I don't like for having too tiny touchpad but still kinda usable) than new macbook keyboard.
Maybe I am too used to mechanical keyboard and thinkpad keyboards.
"in discussions with people that actually use Wacom styluses extensively this isn’t necessarily a real problem"
I strongly disagree. Second button (or eraser side of wacom pens) are really handy editing your inkings. And even $29 dell synaptics pen is clad in metal.
I guess the apple pencil is active capacitive based (like NTrig or Synaptics), while sensing tilt info using IMU and sending it to 'paired' iPad over bluetooth. After using most active pens out there (wacom, NTrig, Synaptics) I still think wacom is way ahead, but at least this provides tilt sensing which was only available with expensive wacom cyntiq.
Wacom table/stylus I bought for my PC 5 years ago is both angle and pressure sensitive, so nothing new there. Larger tablet with keyboard...nothing new there either. Another round of complete lack of innovation and basically playing catch up to the rest of the industry. Apples new formula seems to be take product X, call it something new, claim you invented it, sue anyone who says otherwise, stamp it with the apple brand then charge double what the competition does.
OH, you're so right, gudomlig! But you're being far too kind to Wacom—all it did was copy what had been done hundreds of years earlier with pen and paper. Where's the innovation in that?
Anywho, you clearly have Apple's formula all figured out. Now you can start up your own company and make billions in no time!
I have to say, I'm once again disappointed in the iPad Mini.
I didn't get a new one last year for obvious reasons, but my old first gen is getting ... well old ... :( Oh how I wished that they built something that actually made me exited ! Now I'm just... sad... I assume that the A8X is so much more expensive that it would ruin Apple but seriously ?
I can't play those new cool games they are showing off, and all other cool apps will run sub optimal from day ONE on a fairly expensive tech toy. That just makes me sad.
Now I have to ask myself : Do I get one anyways, get home and just feel sad, do I get the Mini 2, hope for a better one next year and get even more sad or do I keep my old one which will make me cry myself to sleep every night ?
These shouldn't be my options Apple !!! You are supposed to make me excited !!!
The A8X is also hotter (when apps push my iPad Air 2 it gets notably warm to the touch after a few minutes,), it could very well be (pure speculation) they weren't happy with the thermals of a A8X and down clocking it to where it was deemed acceptable took performance low enough that they just stuck with the A8 in there.
I get the disappointment, but the A8 is no slouch either, and with that being the processor shipping in the new Apple TV I think most upcoming games/apps are going to be targeting that level of performance for quite some time anyway (the only model with a A9X is an iPad Pro, and it's designed to run 2 full size (non game) apps at the same time.
It's funny how for many being pro means being able to replace a laptop, it this can't be a laptop replacement then it's not pro. And it's even more funny how some buy a Surface pro 3 to actually use it 99% of the time as a laptop... I bought a surface pro 3, but it's not an ultrabook replacement. It's an handicapped laptop with only one port, with a lousy trackpad and above all, not lappable as an ultrabook. If you want a very portable ultrabook, get the better XPS 13 2015.... Another myth is the one fits all, the jack of all trades (and master of none...). Personally I bought my SP3 mainly as large document viewer as my ipad air was too small for that (and I needed to annotate, which ipad can't do as well with non native pens). But still it's not a full A4 and 4:3 ratio is better for vertical use. Ipad pro is great at that (larger, lighter, 4:3, fanless) and if it came out 1 year earlier I might have simply skipped the SP3 all together. And this is a pro use for me, as I do it for my work (and also for viewing sheet music outside work), but it will not replace my Asus ultrabook (SP3 ddn't replace it either). And I am sure there are lots of business uses for this device, especially as the App store is full of great apps. Laptops will keep on existing, but some uses will move to tablets, probably mainly to ipads.
How many usb port iPad pro has? zero. How many DP port iPad pro has? zero. How many trackpad iPad pro smart keyboard has? zero.
How lighter iPad pro is compared to SP3? 80 grams, and you need additional stand to keep it standing so it's practically the same. What's the ratio of A4 paper? 1.41 to one, which is closer to 3:2 than 4:3.
It's true SP3 is handicapped due to the form factor, but iPad pro is even more handicapped - it's not even running a proper OS.
You give a perfect example of what I was saying, trying to compare the ipad pro to a laptop. It's not, and it's not meant to be (contrary to SP3). As for the weight, it's more than 80 grams, my surface pro 3 weights exactly 810 grams (what MS claims, less than 800, is false in my experience). As for the aspect ratio I am basing myself on my ebooks and other pdf documents. A few fit perfectly in the 3:2, but the large majority fit perfectly in the 4:3 instead of 3:2.
And concerning "you need additional stand to keep it standing so it's practically the same." I use it mainly vertically and SP3 has no vertical stand, so I have to use an external one anyway...
1. You can't simply hit a button to exit sleep and begin using the device. Is that such a hard concept? They make you swipe across the large screen.
2. Look at the huge icon spacing on the home screen, and there's no way to change it!
3. No way to change the default browser, and its top bar hides as you scroll down, making it a pain to access, with no option to change it. And it's not like screen space is so limited that the essential functions should be hidden
"Innovation is a new idea, more effective device or process. Innovation can be viewed as the application of better solutions that meet new requirements, inarticulated needs, or existing market needs. This is accomplished through more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments and society." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation
By this definition, a vast array of goods, products, services, etc. may very correctly be considered to possess innovative qualities, incorporate innovative additions or are innovative in their entirety. The degree to which alterations impact existing designs/concepts/utility does not carry a minimum threshold for them to be regarded as "innovative".
Innovative is another "tech word d'jour" that has been used to the point of inducing nausea, & it will continue to be grossly overused until the next "trendy word flavor" emerges.
Overuse of the word is not the objectionable element to "innovative" per se. Rather, "innovative" begins to approach meaninglessness through the vastly overblown sense of "magnificence", "remarkable originality" or "innate superiority" that users of the word infer, imply or outright proclaim for their "whatever",
Fanboyism of any stripe consistently drives words, concepts or expressions into a state of repugnance far more quickly than seemingly any other force at work upon words.
This comment thread is as good an example as any of fanboy hubris, self-aggrandizement & nausea inducing linguistic abuse.
We're well past the point where I've shifted my brand support to Acme! Products are not to blame; it's the reflexive zealotry of brand apologists who are incapable of independent thought & even minimally objective evaluation on merit.
PS: Through the strident thrashing din of those hormonal pubescent children who comment (whatever their chronological age might be) thoughtful voices are sincerely appreciated. Dan Neely is one reasoned & measured voice who springs to mind; there are indeed other such voices, easily deserving of a +1, but I'm tired.
With thanks to Dan & other reasoned & respectful contributors ... I'm outta here!
This is a nicely built piece of hardware (the only big design issue I see is with the stylus (excuse me, "Apple Pencil") that looks far too easy to break while charging), but I have a hard time seeing how this will be more than a niche product, especially with the high prices they're asking.
For certain use cases (graphics design, certain types of visualization) this could be a great tool, but as a general productivity device, you're still hamstrung by iOS and the almost complete lack of ports. Some people have argued that pro != laptop replacement, and unfortunately I have to say that for the vast majority of companies, that's really not the case.
Many companies larger than a startup run all kinds of legacy software that will never realistically be supported by anything other than windows, plus windows has a very powerful group policy management system that apple really doesn't have an answer for. The surface pro works as a productivity tablet because it's really a laptop in a tablet form factor. It might not be the best tablet out there, but it takes into the account the reality that most workflows still involve a traditional laptop/desktop.
This might change in the future (and apple probably released this product in an attempt to push the change), but right now at the asking price it's a very hard sell against a surface pro and I don't really see it being successful unless a ton of app developers get onboard and write enough good software to compete with the surface pro's killer feature: legacy x86 support.
yes but the vast majority of companies haven't bought a SP3, they are much better off with desktop PCs and laptops. SP3 were mainly bought by private customers, students and some freelance professionals. So large companies won't buy ipad pro any more than SP3. But many other will, including people in the graphic and music industry, as well as many people that have always wanted a larger ipad and, above all, a stylus. At the beginning nobody thought phablets would sell, after all they are more uncomfortable to hold, and still there is a market, as there will probably be a niche but still profitable market for larger tablets, especially from Apple.
yes surface pro 3 might be better than ipad pro. But it don't matter. what apple has that Microsoft don't is --- supply chain to match the demand. MS with stay Nadella is done creating devices. they playing safe now. I am in windows ecosystem right now but as soon as 2nd gen ipad come out. I am jumping. this Microsoft company is not consumer company. they are like IBM. i don't care about them as I used.
i cannot believe apple released a half baked product like this. The pencil can only be used in the notes app on launch day.. They didn't even make a dedicated drawing app for artist to showcase the new pencil.
Meanwhile the keyboard/cover is hideous and uses the 3 fold design to keep it upright. Anyone who's used these 2 fold and 3 fold smart covers knows what i'm talking about. They are finicky and move around a lot. not sturdy at all.
a pro tablet without any sd card slot, or usb port. Or how about at least giving us a lightning thumb drive or a osx like filesystem.
this is the worst product apple has released for 8 years. i cant believe so many tech journalist are eating this thing up like it's being spood fed to them.
About the only thing it does right is pen latency and nice touch screen. but that's where it ends.. It's a blown up ipad air searching for a purpose.
It would be absolutely fantastic if you guys at ANANDTECH could make quantitative measurements of drawing latency when you review the ipad pro for real (comparing it to competing devices like the surface pro 2 (wacom), surface pro 2 (n-trig), galaxy note phone, galaxy note tablet, thinkpad tablet pen, the caciticive (fake) stylus like the wacom bamboo pen etc... This shouldn't be hard to do using high-speed video (there's a high quality 240fps video mode available on the iphone 6 and a couple other smartphone now).
Maybe even include some psuedo-scientific in-the-office testing of "how natural handwriting-based note taking feels?" on the different stylus devices vs a real pen or pencil, and then see how well that perception correlates to latency. Or maybe even post an article with the latencies for competing devices as a lead up to the ipad pro review?
I'm glad that input lag/latency for monitors is now fairly widely reported, but there is an alarming lack of info available on latency for stylus devices. For instance, I've never been able to find a measurement of the pen latency for a MS surface tablet (1, 2, or 3!)... This could be a noteworthy article for you guys like the groundbreaking early SSD coverage/reporting that anand did years ago...
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kspirit - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
A relevant comic from 2012:http://i.imgur.com/sQcP0ww.jpg
GotThumbs - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Spot On.sooperkool - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
This device is the best compliment that Apple has ever paid to Microsoft.et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Nowhere near the compliment Microsoft paid Apple by doing a demo during a new product keynote.Peter Blood - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I think you mean that the other way around since Surface was a response to the 2010 iPad. And cover keyboards for the iPad were available way before Surface had them.Apple wasn't going to give people the same old junky stylus Microsoft could come up with either, so worked to create something better. NEXT!
DERSS - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Besides, the comic says something about touch keyboard, and this has NOTHING to do with Apple's announcement since Apple has presented physical keyboard with real mechanisms in keys.sonny73n - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
"Apple has presented physical keyboard with real mechanism in keys" OMG! LOLCan you even tell the difference between rubber dome and mechanical keyboards? Oh I see, did you mean "real mechanism in keys" is the rubber thing?
No wonder Apple keeps raking in the money. SMH
Jumangi - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Delusional Apple fanboy in full kool aid mode...at80eighty - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
if that's the route youre going; im fairly certain MS brought out tablets before the ipad - win XP days iircImSpartacus - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Ms brought out bad tablets, yes. They noticed how bad they were and then they stopped.Apple is rarely first and featuresets are often limited, but when they finally do release a product, it's usually pretty polished.
Apple brought out the first tablet that anyone would actually consider a success. It was successful because it was really polished.
h107474 - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Ah you mean like Apple maps....real polished ;)WinterCharm - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
He said usually, not always. Nice try troll.Samus - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Chill, Apple maps is "getting there" ;)Morawka - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
until it has street view it's not even considered a competing platform. Street view actually shows you what the building looks like, not its roof. and apple's satellite photo's aren't near as updated as googles.at80eighty - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
irrelevant in this case, since he is illustrating a chronology of x in response to y.and apple has had its unpolished turds too.
tpoccu - Saturday, September 19, 2015 - link
Newton, you're welcometpoccu - Saturday, September 19, 2015 - link
This is of course assuming we really have to do this whole "Simpsons did it" crap every time anyone releases anythingWinterCharm - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Why does the compliment only have to be one way?Apple Did something right with the original iPad, and microsoft built on it. Now apple is taking it forward with the surface.
Fundamentally, the two companies are different because one believes in NOT having a full fledged OS on a tablet, and the other does.
Technology iteratively improves.
Samus - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
You do realize Microsoft "invented" the tablet concept over 15 years ago. Look up Microsoft Courier.Let's face it, practically every innovation in technology through the late 80's to the early 2000's was invented by Microsoft until the Diamond Rio spawned the iPod (the first real Apple innovation since the Macintosh, and no, the Newton wasn't an innovation, if you ever held one you'd know that)
deasys - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
@Samus: You do realize that Apple's MessagePad—introduced in 1993 (22 years ago)—was a small tablet, don't you?deasys - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Not "spot on" at all—the iPad was well supported by third-party integrated keyboards well prior (i.e. early 2010) to Microsoft's introduction of the Surface device.erikiksaz - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Those keyboards required a user to connect the keyboard via BT, and also required a battery no? No, not the same thing.Alexvrb - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
But... but... Apple...deasys - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
@erikiksaz: I responded to the OP's comic link. Your comment regarding prior integrated keyboards for the iPad hardly seem relevant…Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
That's hilarious and amazing :-DOverall I vastly prefer having real Windows to iOS (much less Android). There are literally just two reasons I might still buy an iPad Pro though...
1) Apple lets reading apps lower the brightness (I think simulated through contrast controls in the app) really low, which is fantastic when reading at night.
2) An "app" for Marvel's Unlimited service. Granted, you can use it through a web browser on a Surface, but still.
Those are literally the ONLY reasons I'm considering another iPad over another Surface.
And for me, the large screen size sounds great for reading magazines and comics. 9.7" is too small, for at least a lot of books/magazines.
I really wish the iPad switched to USB though-100% of Lightning devices I've bought have had the port fail. Haven't bought another one since my 5s' port died after 10 months of being babied. (Okay, technically I don't know if the Air 1 I bought would have died in that fashion, as it kernal panicked after literally 5 minutes of use, and I returned it lol)
The lack of a real files system is, if anything, more frustrating to me now that it was even back in 2010...
melgross - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
iCloud now allows you so see individual folders with your files in them, and you can do whatever you like with these files. That pretty much fixes most of the problem for those who think it's a problem.erikiksaz - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Except the part where you don't have access to iCloud, hah.osxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It has a file system.lilo777 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
"It has a file system." - No, as far as user is concerned, it does not.Justwow - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I'm sorry but your experience with lightning ports is just ridiculous. I've had half a dozen lightning devices and still have iphone 5 and iPad 4 with no issues at all. I also think lightning is infinitely more durable than usb could ever dream of. I used to work doing hardware testing and one of the devices was a speaker sick. We did over 15,000 connections between an iPod touch and the dock, and it was still flawless. To break the connector we had to actually rip it off with pliers. Lightning is durable as all hell. If my 5 is still doing great after well over 1000 connections, it sounds like you either beat up your phone or happened to get a faulty device. Anything that's produced millions upon millions of times will have issues here and there.Justwow - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Speaker dock, not sick.val1984 - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
The only problem I have with lightning ports on the iPhone is that they get jeans pocket bunnies in them after a while which can cause inability to charge. But it's easy to clean, gently using a toothpick.Alexvrb - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Except for the cables themselves being a garbage, piss-poor design. Even the too-short first party Apple cables die easily, let alone longer more practical third-party ones (even the supposedly reinforced ones). Have to really baby them to get any useful lifespan out of them. Being tech support in a family that uses about 50% iJunk it's really frustrating.Meanwhile for all the other devices we've got heavily-used micro USB cables that are practically ancient by comparison that still are rock solid. Did I mention they're cheaper too? I've got even some fancy gold-plated ones that are thicker for high-draw tablets, definitely overkill but why not? They still cost a fraction of OEM Apple lightning "too short cause F you" cables.
Morawka - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
Lightning is proprietary, limited to usb 2.0, requires authentication chip, and it's limited to 2.1apretty crappy connector, but the design is amazing i give them that
sonny73n - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
Yep, the design of the lightning connector is great but Apple OEM lightning cable is a piece a cheap crap. It breaks easily. Probably costs more more than $1.50 to make. The authentication chip serves no other purpose except giving users no other choice but to keep them buying the easy to break crappy Apple made cables. That's monopolizing the market and no one in the U.S. Government is doing a damn thing about it. Sad really.sonny73n - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
Costs no more than $1.50Geez AT, edit button?
Morawka - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
so you want a $1000 comic book reader?TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
First came the iPad, then came keyboard covers, then a long while later came the Microsoft Surface. It's funny only to those who can't remember the chronology.id4andrei - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Those were circumstantial accessories. Not important to the device and did nothing to stop the ipad's decline. They were compromises. This time Apple itself showed a keyboard that directly connects to the ipad via a special connector(not BT anymore) and a stylus, both presented as CRUCIAL for "PRO" workflows. The complete package is an unwieldy large setup which lacks lapability and flexibility. Nothing PRO about it. Still the same ipad.First came the tablet PC and then its spiritual successors, convertible laptops with digitizers that enjoyed a continued niche presence on the market. The ipad continues to be a large iphone, with or without stylus. The Surface is a complete paradigm shift. One minute you play Crossy Road, the next you have it docked, powering two 4k monitors side by side running Photoshop and Illustrator at the same time.
JNo - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Goddamnit, why did you just have to introduce me to Crossy Road! Bang, an hour lost and plenty more future hours jeopardised...at80eighty - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Your ignorance is hilarious. there have been windows tablets 5 years before the ipad was a thing Jobs deemed worthy to copypiroroadkill - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
To be fair, all this has been done before, a long time ago, with a device like the Compaq TC1000. Tablet with removable keyboard.So I would not say at all the iPad keyboard covers are prior art for surface.
renstein - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Woah, woah, woah... let's get our history right! First came the GRiDpad (1989), then came a variety of PDAs with pen technology and keyboards (Newton included in there!), then came other things, then....AndrewJacksonZA - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
*grabs popcorn and Coke Light*jmull - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
That's a great comic!But... the original Surface did suck, and suck badly. And Apple isn't claiming to have invented the keyboard cover. (Not that MS is either.)
ellroy80 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Hrm, looks like a Surface Pro to me.et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
When you have no imagination the future always looks like the past.xthetenth - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
No, it's seriously a surface RT with a good screen, a better app store but still not desktop grade program availability and a nice stylus. The stylus having angle tracking is the only thing that is a serious progression over something that's already been done and better so long ago that it's well past due for a refresh. It's not even the semi-usual apple thing where they make something with the best aspects of everything in the industry with a little bit of special fanciness, it's literally just something with most of one product's achievements with a neat thing and a bunch of downsides.When you have no knowledge, the past always looks like the future.
et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
No wifi. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.When you try to be clever but make no sense you expose yourself as insecure.
osxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Loving the surface pro fanboysosxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
The iPad pro is a pro tablet, not a computer like the Surface wich just happens to have a touch screen that can be removedlilo777 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
iPad Pro is a tablet pretending to be a computer. It'll fail. At the very least it needs a mouse input. It will be extremely fatiguing for user to move the hand(s) over such large surface for anything than occasional clicks/touches. Painters might be OK with this (that's the best they can do anyway) but it's just a little niche.royalcrown - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Well stop having tiny asian lady hands then !modulusshift - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Why does it require so much movement? Scrolling can be done anywhere, typing and keyboard shortcuts are still available... And I could have sworn people said the same thing about mice.osxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
A touch screen with a pen and windows, which i have installed on bootcampmr_tawan - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Cintiq Companion Hybrid does have tilt-detection functionality (though it might not be used at all in Android)Peter Blood - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Thankfully it's not a Surface RT cuz we know what dumpster that's in right now. Along with cellar sales figures for Surface Pro.melgross - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Not really. RT tablets were flops because they were poor copies of iOS and Android tablets. Surface 3 is no different.And when a company comes out with a tablet several years after others, as was the case with RT, you can't say that the company that began it all has a product "like" that of the upstart. So it's correct to say that RT was an iOS or Android tablet look-alike, but not the other way around.
You're just being the typical Windows user whose frustrated by Apple success, and feel it's required to say something to put it doepwn.
royalcrown - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Surface RT was a flop because it couldn't run actual windows, it had NOTHING to do with IOS.close - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Then again, when you have too much imagination even a piece of crap might look like something totally unheard of. Like the never before seen tablet with a keyboard in the smartcover and a stylus. Revolutionary.I'm not saying it's bad or that it won't sell. But screaming "innovation" and such just makes you look like an ignorant 13 year old, thinking the world started with the shit he likes.
et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
This runs iOS, not Windows so the keyboard is an accessory, not a must have.You criticize that which you do not understand, just like the old farts shaking their walking sticks at the music the 13 year old ignorants listen.
Speedfriend - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
"This runs iOS, not Windows so the keyboard is an accessory, not a must have."Wow, I didn't know iOS had thought control, so you can type emails without a keyboard...
My iPad Air is a toy and has been made a bearably better toy by my purchase of a keyboard case. What anyone would want a huge 'productivity' tablet for without a keyboard or stylus is doubtful.
stingerman - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Apple has sold a Bluetooth keyboard for the iPad since the beginning. I use when I use my iPad Mini for typing long emails and working with Pages and Numbers. My 2011 MacBook Air is my main computer, but now the iPad Pro looks like a great candidate to replace it. I'm just waiting to see how it will work with external displays like the 27" Thunderbolt display. I suspect Apple is planning new display technology with modern connectors, so we'll see.royalcrown - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Apple has been a productivity tablet for years before this, a stylus, and without a keyboard cover. It's been a more standardized platform, so more actual businesses adopted IPADS over android devices. It's hard to go android tablets or phones on a corporate level when there isn't the same level of quality apps, and not knowing if they will run on someones device they brought in. The last issue is probably much cured now that most low end hardware is decent now.Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
A keyboard is not a "must have" for Windows if you're using it as a tablet. On screen keyboards work okay, even if your tablet doesn't have an Apple logo on it.Peter Blood - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Understand there ARE innovative elements in the new iPad Pro. These days innovation still includes big improvements on existing technology. (Preemptive innovation paradigms are rare.) Surface was a reaction to the iPad with Microsoft's insistence that a full operating system was necessary to keep the Windows train moving. Guess we saw how well that worked for them. Oh and Windows itself was a bad copy of the Mac OS UI and sanctioned by then idiot Apple CEO John Sculley after Steve Jobs left. Let's not go into the who-innovated-what argument and where the modern computer started, you'll lose.Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Uh...you do know the Surface line has been successful, right? I mean I assume your "guess we saw how well that worked for them" was meant as an insult, but it's rather misfired given a) the Surface line completely rocks, and b) it's been successful.Buuut I guess your whole post is a random anti-Microsoft screed.
Michael Bay - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
>windows>sanctioned
He`s desperate, as all of sheeple are. Kick back and enjoy the pain!
Sc0rp - Tuesday, September 29, 2015 - link
>low million unit sales after years on the market>successful
Whuh?
nikon133 - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
Seems to be working fine with Surface Pro 3, and I'm pretty sure Surface Pro 4 will skyrocket.New alliance between MS and OEMs such as Dell and HP will see many Surfaces pushed to corporate users through those OEM channels. This alone will be huge boost for Surface, and rightfully so - for work, iOS/Android tablets just cannot replace full desktop OS, regardless of screen size.
MS did take their sweet time to balance formula, but it looks like they did strike good balance with SP3 form factor and specs. It is already being "cloned", with Lenovo MIIX 7 bearing a flag of first SP3 clone, and I believe there will be much more to come.
Inteli - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
So what in your mind makes this better than a Surface Pro 3? What makes it the future, but not the Surface Pro 3?Surely it can't be simply the angle-sensing stylus and better battery life, because those are very minor things for Apple to add in order to define their own product. It can't possibly iOS, which is very much a hindrance to how productive you can be with it, since iOS applications are nowhere near their Windows/OS X counterparts in terms of functionality.
Apple tried to eliminate some of the SP3's drawbacks (namely battery life and heat output), and succeeded, but they had to sacrifice its flexibility in order to do so. It is no longer a laptop and a tablet, but simply a very large tablet. It can't run x86 applications, and it can't be used as a laptop for anything *serious* like the Surface Pro 3 can.
Admittedly, it is not *bad*, and it will sell plenty because it's an Apple product, but to imply it's the future of the Surface concept is just plain stupid. It would definitely be a far better device if it was x86 with a Core M running OS X, or if it were $200 cheaper (taking it out of price competition with the Surface Pro 3).
Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I really, really, really wanted it to be x86, and then the "pro" name would actually make sense.What's obnoxious is the new Macbook is basically a freaking tablet. Just make OS X work as well as Windows does with touch, remove the keyboard, add a touch screen, and...
osxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Then it well be iOS on x86osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
If OS x had touch support, then every Apple device wood run osxpuggsly - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Sorry but there is no proof that legacy x86 windows are in fact the future. I'd argue that the pace of innovation on iOS apps is poised to leave Windows in the dust. Did you see the office demo ms did? If you believe the core m chips are more advanced than the A9X I think you should wait for some benchmarks. Better yet look at real world performance. You might be surprised what can happen when you shed the weight of legacy Windows. Microsoft wanted to do it but couldn't get developer buy in.Legacy apps will carry the surface for a while but Apple may have tipped the scale and x86 Windows may well not be the future but a dying past. We will see.
Bottom line: why is this better than surface 3 pro? Apps, speed, and user interface. What makes surface better? Legacy apps.
deasys - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
"So what in your mind makes this better than a Surface Pro 3?"Much better display, lighter weight, thinner, longer battery life, better (orientation sensitive) audio, and better cameras.
"Surely it can't be simply the angle-sensing stylus and better battery life, because those are very minor things for Apple to add in order to define their own product."
They're not minor to those who utilize those features. And don't call me Shirley.
"iOS applications are nowhere near their Windows/OS X counterparts in terms of functionality"
Yeah, that's what Microsoft said at Apple's keynote.
Inteli - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
Ah, yes, I was absolutely referring to word processing in that comment, and not 3D modelling, programming, or video editing.Until the iPad Pro has the legacy support and power the Surface Pro 3 has, I won't see it as a true competitor, and I seriously doubt it will ever have the same legacy support. I could see the iPad Pro find a niche in artists, but artists are nowhere near the Surface Pro's only target market.
nikon133 - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
He actually called you "Surly", not "Shirley". "e" was typing error.MS is still primarily software company. They even make software for Android. It makes them money. Same as iTunes for Windows make money for Apple. Regardless MS presentation, it was nice... but that "scribble over" tech is already working in MS new browser, Edge. It is not developed for iPad Office... and I'm sure we will see this and much more in soon-to-be-released Office 2016 for Windows. I also doubt that iOS office will have full set of features that desktop Office has. MS does want iOS users money, but they don't want it to be fully competitive with desktop counterpart. Especially now that they will be selling Surface to corporate users through Dell's and HP's supply channels. We'll see.
Hemlocke - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Why a Core M? Unless you have the top of the line Broadwell i7, or better in the Surface, the A9X has better memory throughput, is more power efficient, and pretty much dominates whatever is in the SP3. The paradigm that "only x86/Windows" can be productive has been dead for years. The App Store has pretty much filled every productivity gap that was missing unless you are the 1% doing workstation-grade work...which an SP3 has no chance of doing.nikon133 - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
Productivity is questionable term. Performance of hardware is only one element, and nowadays, with hardware evolving quickly, while humanity's capabilities basically stagnate, performance increase is not THE factor anymore. Core 2 Duo is still fast enough to perfectly well serve usual office scenarios.Where I work, productivity means:
Easy connection to multiple screens
Efficient transformation between desktop and laptop/tablet modes (proper docking station)
Real multitasking
Connectivity to wide selection of personal and office printers, scanners etc
File system
Understanding of common corporate network - here in NZ it is by huge margin Windows AD. This includes applicability of group policies, certificates for remote access, and compatibility with full range of legacy apps and services
Regardless of how powerful hardware in iPad is getting, software is still what it is - crippled, mobile OS platform. It is great for media consumption, it might be great for specific group of artists... but... office machine it is not. Even with Office available. It is designed to be side-kick, a companion to PC/Mac computer. Surface is PC computer that converts between desktop, laptop and tablet modes. I think there's a big difference...
pgmr - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
The Core M processor is a dog. I have an Asus Zenbook which I regret buying. It has good battery life, but only if the processor is dialed back to energy saving mode. Otherwise it's max 2 hours.I wouldn't ever again buy anything with a Core M. If you are in power saving mode, can take more than a few seconds to load a web page, even with a fast internet connection. It is really disgusting. I was interested in the iPad Pro, but if it's really slower than a Core M, forget it. I suspect it is probably much faster than the M over the same battery charge period.
jmull - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Personally, I think the Surface Pro 3 is a good device and that MS has done a really good job with their Metro interface. But...Software is a tricky issue for it. On one hand there is an unbelievable amount of powerful software of all kinds available. On the other hand, very, very little of it is designed for the SP3's touch interface and meanwhile the track pad is pretty crappy and using a stylus to peck at tiny UI elements is far from ideal. Not to mention that so much Windows software isn't really designed to run well on small screen like that. In the end, you can run almost anything on a SP3, but most of it isn't a very good experience. Likewise, the iPad Pro would suffer from the same problems if Apple had made it to run OS X and x86-based software.
On the other hand, everything for iPads is designed for a touch interface and small screens. (And plenty of it is "serious" software.)
Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Exactly. Thats what a lot of people seem to miss when they scratch their heads over the success of the iPad or Android. They think "Why are these things successful when a windows tablet has windows and it's backlog of legacy software??? That software has more functionality, so that makes it better! Why aren't people interested in better or more????"nikon133 - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
A friend of mine, who is big Apple fan (recently converted from Windows and Android, so the newly found faith still burns bright within him) gave me this:It is bigger yet slimmer and lighter. Screen is higher res. It does not require active cooling. It has 4 speakers (!?!). So we had nice discussion about all that. Eventually, he closed his side of argument with "I'm not into Windows any more". I guess that argument made most sense to me. I used to have iPhone 3Gs and 4s, but eventually just grew out of iPhone. I'm not saying new iPhones are not good devices - butt hey just don't spark interest in me any more. It's all in the brain chemistry... some like blondes, some brunettes...
Sc0rp - Tuesday, September 29, 2015 - link
When microsoft adds features to their products, they don't put much thought into how to properly implement them. That's why nobody really cares about microsoft's attempts. For instance, they had a time machine-like functionality in their OS for many years, however most people never hear or know about it because microsoft buried the feature under a mountain of preference windows that users have to take the initiative to wander through. Apple made Time machine to be user friendly and they put it at the forefront.smartthanyou - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Yep, almost identical. Except for the sales figures of course. I am guessing the iPad Pro will make the Surface numbers look tiny and insignificant in under 6 months.Ushio01 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
First 3 days and it will outsell total Surface lifetime sales.The Surface is a flawed product the iPad Pro is perfection.
andrewaggb - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It will be interesting for sure. I think the high price will mean this isn't a huge seller unless people are getting it subsidized somehow.That said, I think it will be a pretty nice tablet for some people. Better battery life and portability than an SP3 is a good selling feature. Everybody I know with SP3 uses them as laptop replacements and this wouldn't be an option for them, so I'm not sure it's going to steal many surface sales. I bet there are some sales people my company who could use the iPad Pro as their only computer. I wouldn't pay $800 for it personally.
melgross - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
No, it doesn't look anything like a Surface Pro. Thank heavens!Speedfriend - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I would expect a less pandering article from Anandtech, it isn't Techradar after all.No comment on a 'productivity' device that tops out with 128GB and has no removable storage.
Blind acceptance that a single position stand is at all acceptable in 2015, let alone 2012, given the variance in peoples height and desk heights.
No complaint that there is nowhere to store the stylus
While I am sure there are still the faithful that will buy it, where is the innovation that MS showed with the Surface Pro?
et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Where's the innovation in Surface Pro indeed?There's isn't any, at least not coming from Microsoft.
Surface Pro is the same reheated tablet PC but in a somewhat saner form factor enabled by innovation coming from Intel.
xthetenth - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
You say saner form factor because it seems obvious now. It takes a really good product to be able to do something nobody else was doing or thinking and make it work so well that it's plain as day obvious once it's done and the hurdles are cleared.et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It seemed obvious at least since the 1980s, but not practical to build.It did not clear any hurdles.
It was just a rushed attempt by a scared Microsoft to enter a market that was booming at the time by leveraging their desktop monopoly and legacy application support.
Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Microsoft's been trying to build the Surface for over 15 years now, and finally has, and it's as awesome as everyone hoped it would be. There's really no comparison to what's just a giant iPod.et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
The tablet PC was a perennial afterthought for Microsoft. When the iPad took off they panicked and made a mess of their desktop OS in a laughable attempt to catch up.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
No, what Microsoft did is take their 15 year old experimental concept platform's name and slap it onto a tablet pc with some touch support and a poorly thought out touch interface. They had tablet PC's a long time ago. On a realistic level, what does the surface really do that they don't? Oh, it has a keyboard cover. Bravo, Microsoft. Bravo.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Boom. You got em.puggsly - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
You do understand that the apple keyboard is only one of dozens of options that will be available and that with an so that eats only a couple gigs of space and apps that are a tenth the size of Windows apps that 128 gb is acceptable?They were looking at how well it does what it was designed to do and not trying to come up with excuses why it should fail.
osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Well iOS only uses about 3 or 5gb, vs windows 20gbet20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I can't wait to try this out. It sounds even better than I imagined.Speedfriend - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Then you have no imagination...Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Yeah, it seems like EXACTLY what we thought it would be, and way, way less than we can "imagine".x86 with real OS X + some iOS support, THAT would have been awesome. Even a USB port and/or an SD card slot would have been really cool. Just making it physically bigger is the least impressive, most "imaginable" thing they could have done.
et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Imagining the future in terms of the past is not imagination.puggsly - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Why can't people see how vibrant the iOS app development is. Windows dominated the past but may not still have what it takes to hold the future. Look at the Microsoft and Adobe demos and realize this is not some weak phone os. This is the future of new productivity apps.osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Not an app wood runSc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
So... You want it to essentially be a tablet PC from 12 years ago that didn't sell?"As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly." -Proverbs 26:11
rhysiam - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I'm interested that you see no issues with the absence of a trackpad. I'm a SP3 owner and I agree the trackpad is mediocre, but there are heaps of 'productivity' use-cases where I find even a mediocre trackpad far, far more effective than using any other input method (keyboard, touch or stylus). Plus, when there's proper work to do, plug in a mouse and away I go. Even something simple like text editing I find to be vastly easier with a trackpad (or better still, a mouse), common tasks like quickly selecting blocks of text or clicking precisely to an exact point in the text are mindlessly easy, which is NOT the case (in my experience) with touch or stylus. I'm struggling to see how any semi-serious document, presentation, spreadsheet, photo or video editing could work efficiently without any trackpad/mouse support.From your write up and elsewhere it seems like the idea here is to push the iPad towards more productivity tasks, so the bigger screen and keyboard all make sense. But no mouse or trackpad support... how is that going to be productive? Am I missing something?
Luc K - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I have no issues with trackpad. I use 2 finger scrolling constantly and it's quite convenient.But regardless I find it hard to believe that someone would say you're better off without one...
et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
iOS does not have any pointer support at all. Only text insertion cursor is available.Ducksbane - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Doesn't Windows Mobile 10 have a virtual nubbin/pointer on its keyboard ? ... perhaps Apple could "invent" that in ios 10. That would be pretty magical, probably "the best virtual pointer we have ever made" even!Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Um, don't know if you know this but those little nubbins suck pretty bad.Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It also doesn't work for video editing or anything else serious like that because it's got a small pool of slow storage that's only accessible through iTunes with a real PC.puggsly - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
3 simultanious 4K video streams. In iMovie on the iPad pro. This may not be a replacement for a Mac Pro but it will more than hold its own against the surface.osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
I never use iTunes for my iPad, meh all just download some file manager from the App Store, plus I can view my afp/ftp/smb shares on my macosxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
They can add mouse support if they wanted tolilo777 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It took them 5 years to add stylus. So maybe in 5 years they will add a mouse.osxandwindows - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
whatever manjmull - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
A big reason you find the trackpad (or mouse) more productive than touch, keyboard, or stylus is that you're using software designed for a mouse or trackpad.It's interesting you mention text editing, because a keyboard is actually the most productive way to edit text. (I claim this as a software developer, so editing text is what I and a lot of people I've worked with do for a living.) There's a learning curve to the key-combos for selecting, moving, and navigating text, but there's not that much to it. When people fall back to a mouse or trackpad for text editing, it's actually because the *rest* of the interface in their app -- the menus, dialog boxes, tool bars, etc. are designed for pointer input and there's an annoying overhead to switching back and forth. (Particularly bad, IMO, when switching between a stylus and keyboard.) The better solution, in this case, is actually redesigning the software to depend on a pointer less.
Anyway, the software you use was designed assuming the user has ready access to a pointer which is why it works best when you use a pointer.
The iPad has never had a pointer concept and naturally, so none of the decent software assumes it has one, and instead the developers design a productive touch interface. (Well, actually some developers will port software to mobile devices as if you could just substitute a user's finger for a mouse pointer. That's a bad idea and results in a crappy interface that isn't productive at all. Some things out OK, but a lot doesn't. You end up with something that can be made to work, but is really annoying to use.)
Software will be efficient and productive for touch if it's designed to be efficient and productive for touch.
alexvoda - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
My, my.It seams you have not used many digitizers.
The tilt detection functionality is nothing new. It has been a standard feature on the Wacom Intuos (original, 2, 3, 4, 5, Pro) and on all Wacom Cintiq models. I is also a feature on models from competitors like Hanvon. That being said, unfortunately, other than the Wacom Cintiq Companion models I do not know of any Windows or Android tablet that has tilt detection. The S Pen on Samsung tablets does not have this feature, even though it uses Wacom technology, making it similar to the Wacom Bamboo(now renamed to Intuos -- stupid marketing mixing up product line names). The Microsoft Surface tablets use Ntrig technology, and AFAIK do not have tilt detection.
nerd1 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
They DID put tilt detection for new note 5, but none of current apps may use the feature except for fixing the parralax error.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Um, I have an Intuos 3. How do I activate tilt detection?Shadowmaster625 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
$100 for a pencil. And they say there's no inflation! Over the next few years, schools are going to be dumping truckloads of taxpayer dollars into these ripoff pencils, which the students will conveniently lose.osxandwindows - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Don't buy thenphotolamus - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Apple is first again. All tablet builders is behind again. For them this article http://blog.photolamus.com/2015/09/09/the-art-of-b...Leonick - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
"the iPad Mini 4 was only mentioned in passing in the announcement but it effectively gives you the iPad Air 2 with an A8 SoC in a mini formfactor. "No, it doesn't give you an Air 2 in mini formfactor. It gives you an extra large iPhone 6 (without phone app). The Air 2 uses an A8x SoC which has a faster CPU, significantly faster GPU and twice the RAM.
Quite saddened by how Apple is treating the mini now with the iPad mini 3 (which was just a 2 with Touch ID) last year and now the 4 which despite being a year newer doesn't catch up with the Air 2...
dmunsie - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
As a long time fan of Apple's mini products (iPod, Mac and iPad), it's not really surprising how they are treating the iPad mini. They seem to be stuck in the mindset that mini == low end, when really it's that there are some people that prefer smaller devices without needing to sacrifice a lot of power.Occasionally Apple gets this and we get gems like the 2012 quad core i7 Mac mini and the 2nd gen iPad mini when it came out. But then they go back to treating the mini devices as just cheaper devices.
Leonick - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Yet on the MacBooks the screen size is only that, screen size, apart from that there rarely much difference. Sure, the larger one might fit some extra port but you tend to have the same internals.They already have last years mini as the cheap low end model.
ssiu - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It is officially confirmed (i.e. mentioned somewhere in Apple website) that iPad mini 4 supports Split View multitasking. That most likely mean it has 2GB RAM.Some say the new Apple TV also has an A8 with 2GB RAM ("listed in the documentation"). https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/6417336...
Leonick - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Yea, I've seen that. Gives me a bit of hope.Seems weird to use an upgraded version of an old SoC and not somehow rebrand it, then again, Apple seem to be under the impression that RAM doesn't matter to anyone if it isn't a Mac being discussed.
Will have to wait for reviews/teardowns and see...
Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I hope the Mini 4 at least has 2GB. That's SOMETHING, but yeah, I forgot that the 8x is supposed to have a much larger GPU...oh, and a third CPU for that matter LOLOh well, I guess it's at least a bit better than the Mini 3?
Leonick - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Going by Apples own comparison charts that third core doesn't do much though, A8 is 1.3 times faster than the A7, the A8X is 1.4 times faster. Although maybe that's just clockspeed or something?The GPU is a much bigger difference though with the A8 being 1.6 times faster than A7 while A8X is 2.5 times faster...
Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
If the mini had all of the innards of the air then people would buy the mini instead of the air.Apple's product strategy is that the products on the low end or entry level are supposed to be sort of a "meh" deal. Meanwhile, products on the higher end are supposed to be more enticing offers.
boeush - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Do my lyin' eyes deceive me, or is that a "productivity device" with a 4:3 screen? Why, with that keyboard it almost starts to look like a "productivity laptop".Interesting and curious, that actual laptops marketed as productivity devices - a.k.a. " desktop replacement" - are still mired in the purgatory of 16:9 screens...
Well, maybe some genius engineer will finally figure out to make those laptops more like them tablets. If you can't arrive at good design rationally, maybe at least you could stumble into it by analogy? Or is that still too much to hope for?
PixyMisa - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Yes. Not sure I want an iPad Pro (or rather, not sure I want to pay that much for one), but I'd gladly buy a notebook with that screen.et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.Wolfpup - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
The real reason for a more square screen is they work better as a tablet. You can easily hold them in either orientation. 16:9 feels too...tall, when you're holding it portrait. Apple got the aspect ratio right with the iPad (despite all the claims to the contrary), and it's why we've seen the Nexus 9 use a similar aspect ratio, and more significantly, both the Surface Pro 3 and Surface 3.et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Both Surfaces use 3:2, not 4:3.id4andrei - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
You cannot handwrite with the stylus. You can only draw with it.Can you say something about mitigating the parallax effect? It's why MS switched to Ntrig after all.
inighthawki - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I'm a little ignorant to various stylus technologies - can you explain why you're able to draw, but not write?elomire678 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Of course you can write. They probably mean there is no handwriting recognition.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Isn't that up to the software, instead of the stylus?jmull - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Yeah, I'm very curious to see someone measure and compare the parallax and latency for the iPad Pro vs. SP3 vs. Cintiq, etc. People want a stylus to behave like and actual pen or pencil, and those have 0 mm parallax and 0 ms latency. We don't need it to be perfect, but something like 0.15 mm and 10 ms.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
My understanding is that the SP3 has pretty bad latency.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
What? You can write notes with that stylus.lesbaer45 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
So they finally got around to producing a copy of my Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2?How creative. Such innovation.
et20 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Lag and crashes not included.osxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Lol android has no tablet appsthesloth - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
"This keyboard cover also doesn’t have a trackpad or any way to adjust the angle at which the tablet is mounted. I suspect the missing trackpad is for the better though if my experiences with the Surface Pro trackpad is anything to go by."There won't be a trackpad ever as AFAIK iOS has no concept of a "mouse pointer", either the visuals or the underlying state required (ie. mouse position).
osxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Bad surface pro trackpad driversnerd1 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
What, the same travel as new macbook? I tried REALLY hard to get used to new macbook but I simply cannot. I way prefer the surface keyboard (which I don't like for having too tiny touchpad but still kinda usable) than new macbook keyboard.Maybe I am too used to mechanical keyboard and thinkpad keyboards.
nerd1 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
"in discussions with people that actually use Wacom styluses extensively this isn’t necessarily a real problem"I strongly disagree. Second button (or eraser side of wacom pens) are really handy editing your inkings. And even $29 dell synaptics pen is clad in metal.
I guess the apple pencil is active capacitive based (like NTrig or Synaptics), while sensing tilt info using IMU and sending it to 'paired' iPad over bluetooth. After using most active pens out there (wacom, NTrig, Synaptics) I still think wacom is way ahead, but at least this provides tilt sensing which was only available with expensive wacom cyntiq.
gudomlig - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Wacom table/stylus I bought for my PC 5 years ago is both angle and pressure sensitive, so nothing new there. Larger tablet with keyboard...nothing new there either. Another round of complete lack of innovation and basically playing catch up to the rest of the industry. Apples new formula seems to be take product X, call it something new, claim you invented it, sue anyone who says otherwise, stamp it with the apple brand then charge double what the competition does.deasys - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
OH, you're so right, gudomlig! But you're being far too kind to Wacom—all it did was copy what had been done hundreds of years earlier with pen and paper. Where's the innovation in that?Anywho, you clearly have Apple's formula all figured out. Now you can start up your own company and make billions in no time!
Fujikoma - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Much like the slide lock... done hundreds of years earlier. Apple just put it on a screen.nmodin - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I have to say, I'm once again disappointed in the iPad Mini.I didn't get a new one last year for obvious reasons, but my old first gen is getting ... well old ... :( Oh how I wished that they built something that actually made me exited ! Now I'm just... sad... I assume that the A8X is so much more expensive that it would ruin Apple but seriously ?
I can't play those new cool games they are showing off, and all other cool apps will run sub optimal from day ONE on a fairly expensive tech toy. That just makes me sad.
Now I have to ask myself : Do I get one anyways, get home and just feel sad, do I get the Mini 2, hope for a better one next year and get even more sad or do I keep my old one which will make me cry myself to sleep every night ?
These shouldn't be my options Apple !!! You are supposed to make me excited !!!
AARGH !! :(
Deelron - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
The A8X is also hotter (when apps push my iPad Air 2 it gets notably warm to the touch after a few minutes,), it could very well be (pure speculation) they weren't happy with the thermals of a A8X and down clocking it to where it was deemed acceptable took performance low enough that they just stuck with the A8 in there.I get the disappointment, but the A8 is no slouch either, and with that being the processor shipping in the new Apple TV I think most upcoming games/apps are going to be targeting that level of performance for quite some time anyway (the only model with a A9X is an iPad Pro, and it's designed to run 2 full size (non game) apps at the same time.
waverlybrian - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Question for the author Joshua Ho or someone who knows: Without any buttons on the pencil, how does one erase?Klimax - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
You were impressed by this crappy copycat? The you should definitely get original! Surface Pro 3. You'll be blown away.osxandwindows - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Ok fanboySc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Surface Pro 3's stylus lags bruh.ExarKun333 - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
How is this even a 'pro;? It doesn't have a real OS, with barely even any multitasking? What a joke.jabber - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Give it 18 months and Apple will be installing Windows 10 as standard for dual boot on all their devices.osxandwindows - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
I don't like messing with windows at alldigiguy - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
It's funny how for many being pro means being able to replace a laptop, it this can't be a laptop replacement then it's not pro. And it's even more funny how some buy a Surface pro 3 to actually use it 99% of the time as a laptop... I bought a surface pro 3, but it's not an ultrabook replacement. It's an handicapped laptop with only one port, with a lousy trackpad and above all, not lappable as an ultrabook. If you want a very portable ultrabook, get the better XPS 13 2015.... Another myth is the one fits all, the jack of all trades (and master of none...). Personally I bought my SP3 mainly as large document viewer as my ipad air was too small for that (and I needed to annotate, which ipad can't do as well with non native pens). But still it's not a full A4 and 4:3 ratio is better for vertical use. Ipad pro is great at that (larger, lighter, 4:3, fanless) and if it came out 1 year earlier I might have simply skipped the SP3 all together. And this is a pro use for me, as I do it for my work (and also for viewing sheet music outside work), but it will not replace my Asus ultrabook (SP3 ddn't replace it either). And I am sure there are lots of business uses for this device, especially as the App store is full of great apps. Laptops will keep on existing, but some uses will move to tablets, probably mainly to ipads.nerd1 - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
How many usb port iPad pro has? zero.How many DP port iPad pro has? zero.
How many trackpad iPad pro smart keyboard has? zero.
How lighter iPad pro is compared to SP3? 80 grams, and you need additional stand to keep it standing so it's practically the same.
What's the ratio of A4 paper? 1.41 to one, which is closer to 3:2 than 4:3.
It's true SP3 is handicapped due to the form factor, but iPad pro is even more handicapped - it's not even running a proper OS.
digiguy - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
You give a perfect example of what I was saying, trying to compare the ipad pro to a laptop. It's not, and it's not meant to be (contrary to SP3). As for the weight, it's more than 80 grams, my surface pro 3 weights exactly 810 grams (what MS claims, less than 800, is false in my experience). As for the aspect ratio I am basing myself on my ebooks and other pdf documents. A few fit perfectly in the 3:2, but the large majority fit perfectly in the 4:3 instead of 3:2.digiguy - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
And concerning "you need additional stand to keep it standing so it's practically the same." I use it mainly vertically and SP3 has no vertical stand, so I have to use an external one anyway...osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
And how good is the surface pro trackpad, from 1 to 10 2?osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
IBM and others you name itsmartthanyou - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
How is this a "hands on" with the iPad Mini 4? From what you wrote, it doesn't appear you touched it at all.AnnonymousCoward - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
iPads suck for a few simple reasons.1. You can't simply hit a button to exit sleep and begin using the device. Is that such a hard concept? They make you swipe across the large screen.
2. Look at the huge icon spacing on the home screen, and there's no way to change it!
3. No way to change the default browser, and its top bar hides as you scroll down, making it a pain to access, with no option to change it. And it's not like screen space is so limited that the essential functions should be hidden
Deelron - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
1. You click the home button and leave your finger on the Touch ID button and it unlocks to begin using the device. No swiping needed.2. Opinion, but I can see how that would be undesirable for some people.
3. The top bar reappears the moment you scroll up in any way, which I've never found a pain to access.
Bobs_Your_Uncle - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
"Innovation is a new idea, more effective device or process. Innovation can be viewed as the application of better solutions that meet new requirements, inarticulated needs, or existing market needs. This is accomplished through more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments and society." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InnovationBy this definition, a vast array of goods, products, services, etc. may very correctly be considered to possess innovative qualities, incorporate innovative additions or are innovative in their entirety. The degree to which alterations impact existing designs/concepts/utility does not carry a minimum threshold for them to be regarded as "innovative".
Innovative is another "tech word d'jour" that has been used to the point of inducing nausea, & it will continue to be grossly overused until the next "trendy word flavor" emerges.
Overuse of the word is not the objectionable element to "innovative" per se. Rather, "innovative" begins to approach meaninglessness through the vastly overblown sense of "magnificence", "remarkable originality" or "innate superiority" that users of the word infer, imply or outright proclaim for their "whatever",
Fanboyism of any stripe consistently drives words, concepts or expressions into a state of repugnance far more quickly than seemingly any other force at work upon words.
This comment thread is as good an example as any of fanboy hubris, self-aggrandizement & nausea inducing linguistic abuse.
We're well past the point where I've shifted my brand support to Acme! Products are not to blame; it's the reflexive zealotry of brand apologists who are incapable of independent thought & even minimally objective evaluation on merit.
Bobs_Your_Uncle - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
PS: Through the strident thrashing din of those hormonal pubescent children who comment (whatever their chronological age might be) thoughtful voices are sincerely appreciated. Dan Neely is one reasoned & measured voice who springs to mind; there are indeed other such voices, easily deserving of a +1, but I'm tired.With thanks to Dan & other reasoned & respectful contributors ... I'm outta here!
gamer1000k - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
This is a nicely built piece of hardware (the only big design issue I see is with the stylus (excuse me, "Apple Pencil") that looks far too easy to break while charging), but I have a hard time seeing how this will be more than a niche product, especially with the high prices they're asking.For certain use cases (graphics design, certain types of visualization) this could be a great tool, but as a general productivity device, you're still hamstrung by iOS and the almost complete lack of ports. Some people have argued that pro != laptop replacement, and unfortunately I have to say that for the vast majority of companies, that's really not the case.
Many companies larger than a startup run all kinds of legacy software that will never realistically be supported by anything other than windows, plus windows has a very powerful group policy management system that apple really doesn't have an answer for. The surface pro works as a productivity tablet because it's really a laptop in a tablet form factor. It might not be the best tablet out there, but it takes into the account the reality that most workflows still involve a traditional laptop/desktop.
This might change in the future (and apple probably released this product in an attempt to push the change), but right now at the asking price it's a very hard sell against a surface pro and I don't really see it being successful unless a ton of app developers get onboard and write enough good software to compete with the surface pro's killer feature: legacy x86 support.
digiguy - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
yes but the vast majority of companies haven't bought a SP3, they are much better off with desktop PCs and laptops. SP3 were mainly bought by private customers, students and some freelance professionals. So large companies won't buy ipad pro any more than SP3. But many other will, including people in the graphic and music industry, as well as many people that have always wanted a larger ipad and, above all, a stylus. At the beginning nobody thought phablets would sell, after all they are more uncomfortable to hold, and still there is a market, as there will probably be a niche but still profitable market for larger tablets, especially from Apple.redzinc - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
yes surface pro 3 might be better than ipad pro. But it don't matter. what apple has that Microsoft don't is --- supply chain to match the demand. MS with stay Nadella is done creating devices. they playing safe now. I am in windows ecosystem right now but as soon as 2nd gen ipad come out. I am jumping. this Microsoft company is not consumer company. they are like IBM. i don't care about them as I used.Morawka - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link
i cannot believe apple released a half baked product like this. The pencil can only be used in the notes app on launch day.. They didn't even make a dedicated drawing app for artist to showcase the new pencil.Meanwhile the keyboard/cover is hideous and uses the 3 fold design to keep it upright. Anyone who's used these 2 fold and 3 fold smart covers knows what i'm talking about. They are finicky and move around a lot. not sturdy at all.
a pro tablet without any sd card slot, or usb port. Or how about at least giving us a lightning thumb drive or a osx like filesystem.
this is the worst product apple has released for 8 years. i cant believe so many tech journalist are eating this thing up like it's being spood fed to them.
About the only thing it does right is pen latency and nice touch screen. but that's where it ends.. It's a blown up ipad air searching for a purpose.
msmith_ - Tuesday, September 22, 2015 - link
Joshua,It would be absolutely fantastic if you guys at ANANDTECH could make quantitative measurements of drawing latency when you review the ipad pro for real (comparing it to competing devices like the surface pro 2 (wacom), surface pro 2 (n-trig), galaxy note phone, galaxy note tablet, thinkpad tablet pen, the caciticive (fake) stylus like the wacom bamboo pen etc... This shouldn't be hard to do using high-speed video (there's a high quality 240fps video mode available on the iphone 6 and a couple other smartphone now).
Maybe even include some psuedo-scientific in-the-office testing of "how natural handwriting-based note taking feels?" on the different stylus devices vs a real pen or pencil, and then see how well that perception correlates to latency. Or maybe even post an article with the latencies for competing devices as a lead up to the ipad pro review?
I'm glad that input lag/latency for monitors is now fairly widely reported, but there is an alarming lack of info available on latency for stylus devices. For instance, I've never been able to find a measurement of the pen latency for a MS surface tablet (1, 2, or 3!)... This could be a noteworthy article for you guys like the groundbreaking early SSD coverage/reporting that anand did years ago...
Just my two-cents worth.