" In my view, the addition of multitasking just puts the iPad experience even farther ahead of other tablets. Obviously Windows has a similar implementation, but the unfortunate truth is that the Windows tablet market is almost non-existent at this point outside of the Surface lineup"
I wonder why Samsung TouchWiz was not mentioned there as it has a much better multitasking multi-split implementation together with the S-Pen, and Samsung tablets represent a majority of Android tablets.
The windows tablet market is the surface market. Surface is a billion dollar a year business now, and apple obviously is taking it personal because surface was able to grab so much attention. It is a huge threat to iPad, because of it's versatility. It makes iPad's look like $600 facebook/email machines when you have competitors running full blow photoshop and illustrator in a similar form factor. Display out, USB drive support, SD Camera Card Support, A File System so people can download and move around files between any machine, these are all things iOS can't do in it's current form, meanwhile android and windows can and will take all the prosumer market.
Think of what it will look like in 5-6 years with intel core i7's are running at 5w TDP and can do without a fan. Apple devices are about to hit a brick wall in performance improvements because new nodes are 2-3 years away. I would say that this is the last 90% performance gain year over year generation claims. Apple so far has been lucky and has been getting a new node every year for the past 3 years.
next year ipads/iphones will maybe get 10-15% gains in Cpu/gpu unless they make the silicon really big which has lower yields. meanwhile intel surface will have skylake and kabylake and Nvidia might be able to do something incredible once it finally gets access to 16nm FF on their 5w K lineup
It's humorous how you believe Chip/Hardware advancements will benefit only 1 company (Microsoft). As if Apple,.. a company with such a respected history of hardware-design and innovation.. will just let itself fall behind on Chip-design. Hilarious.
They'll still use iOS on the iPad and not OSX so... yeah, Microsoft wins out on usability. Unless Apple outs a full-on laptop replacement. So until then your comment makes no sense.
Considering that OS X runs on x86 and iOS doesn't, chip design and os chioce are not totally different. Of course they can port iOS to x86, but they have their work cut out for them.
porting iOS to x86 is simple. considering both OSX and iOS run on Darwin. In fact I suspect the iOS simulator that comes with XCode is running natively on x86.
Windows RT on ARM is proof that a company could port the OS to a different chip if they wanted to. Apple could easily port iOS to x86 if they needed to. They probably have an internal port already, I think their iOS "emulators" actually run as x86.
Yeah, and not using a Desktop OS is why iPads are so much more popular in business and government. No dealing with typical Windows malware and viruses, no dealing with the many borked updates...
How many iPads have been trashed by updates? Quite a few. How many businesses, that use a WSUS server and test the updates, have been trashed? Not that many.
Not acknowledging my substantial investment in highend desktop graphic applications ( a market that has been working with a tablet form factor long before there was a tablet market ) cements Surface's popularity and free's an army of artists from Wacom's oppressive pricing. ( who needs a pen? I guess Aplle decided market share proves that they do. Now make an Ipad that will run Zbrush and Maya )
@melgross I have recently seen numerous tablets being used by businesses (restaurants, delivery companies) that were clearly no-name Android tablets designed for that specific tasks. Why would a corporate that needs a tablet for a single task buy a $500 iPad when they can get a $200 Android?
iPad is now caught in the middle between cheap single task Androids and multi-task windowns 2-in-1s. Our CEO is obsessed with Apple products but we have gone Windows tablets and it looks like we are going to go full surface range soon (3 and Pros). Why, because an iPad is too limited even as something you just take to meetings with you.
-- a respected history of hardware-design and innovation..
really, really now? Apple has always bought their silicon, 99.44% is off-the-shelf. Yeah, I know, the fanbois brag that the Ax chips are somehow blessed by Apple. Fact is: Apple only tweaked around the edges, using industry standard silicon design tools, a bit of cache added here and there. Just look at the BoM from any of the usual teardown sites. You'll see the fact: it's always other people's parts.
...Because that would be too far a jump. Apple wants to MILK its customers for everything then can hence the small updates. Someone like Nokia committed a mortal sin as they released a 41Mp (36+5mp) camera phone while others are still messing with 20Mp.
All about the cash.
P.s. Android NEEDS more cores as it runs like a bag of crap.
Actually Android runs just as smooth as iOS. The problem is skinned, custom versions of Android, i.e. TouchWiz. When I replaced TouchWiz with CM 12.1 on my Note 4, the system took up only 580MB, where as TouchWiz took up more than 1.5GB before a single app was even installed. I also installed the launcher SmartLauncher 3, the whole experience is lightning fast. Even when running multiple apps in the background, something iOS still can't do. I think it is ridiculous that a modern OS in 2015 cannot do something as simple as stream a movie to your TV and still allow you to use the device, iOS simply pauses, even disconnects the stream in some cases if you want to do something as simple as look up an actors name in IMDB. With my Android tablet I can not only stream a film to my TV but play a game like Modern Combat 5 at the same time. As a programmer I need to run a terminal app to stay connected to my firms server during trading hours as I have monitoring tools. IOS has terminal apps as well but I can't run them them in the background the entire day without iOS terminating it's connections. Again, I find this to be absolutely ridiculous as who wants to stare at a terminal the entire day, especially when I need access to my tablet or phone to do other tasks. Apple adding Pro behind the iPad doesn't automatically make it a pro device. IOS still has one of the worst document, file management systems on the market today. My Nokia 9500 from 2004 is light years better than what iOS provides, apps should never be allowed to manage their own files. Default apps, I still can't change the default apps in iOS, why? I have no use for Apple's included apps, if I had the choice I would immediately delete them from the system, as such I need the ability to select my own browser, email client, messenger, media player, etc. as the default applications. I find this tactic of not being able to select my own default apps in iOS highly anti-competitive. The EU went after Microsoft for including Internet Explorer in XP, even though the user had the option of choosing another browser as their default. Why hasn't Apple be scrutinized about this?
I'm aware of those few audio and GPS apps that can run in the background in IOS, but this is a far cry than allowing any app that the user needs in the background. No, this has nothing to do with battery life, if it is than Apple really needs to rewrite iOS. My BlackBerry Passport, running three apps in the background, easily lasts the entire day on a single charge, actually it lasts a day and a half with moderate to heavy use. Android has the ability to select how many apps are allowed to run in the background, you can even set it to 1. So if people feel like their apps are eating up their battery they can control the amount of running apps. Apple could easily implement such a feature, they don't though, which means they have all the control, they dictate how the user uses their own devices. iOS is a wolf in sheep's clothing, looks pretty, inviting but once you start to do real work you encounter a brick wall a 20 stories high. How many times have you iOS users logged into iCloud on your device, I had to do it over 25 times to cover every app. Why, why do I need to log in even twice, once should be enough, in Android upon setting up my Google user that was it, from that point on every app that could communicate with Google Drive would automatically be setup. This is because the apps talk to the system at the lowest level, iOS requires spaghetti API's, a spiderweb of tunnels trying to pass info to each other. The Share TO function in iOS works only if the app dveloper has created a share profile. Why can't the system just dynamically create these Share To lists like Android 5.1.2, SailFish 2.0, Windows Mobile 10, BlackBerry OS 10.3.2 by looking for every compatible app that is installed and than listing. No, instead iOS uses this half ass API system. What about mult-user support, will never happen in iOS because of the way it handles files. To support multi-users in iOS each user would have to reinstall each app over again to distinguish each users. They could embed the users info in the file's metadata so the app can distinguish each user but that is just hacky at best would and how would these modified files react when used on other systems. IOS is definitely not a pro system and anyone thinking differently is either lying to themselves to protect their beloved Apple brand, aren't professionals themselves so don't reall understand the meaning or are working around these limitations, fighting the system at every point to get their work done which falls in line with point one, their lying to themselves.
I'm not saying that iOS devices don't have their uses, they do. They make great consumer devices for media consumption, social media, gaming, drawing and other artistic apps, music and music creation, etc. However as a productivity tool these devices are highly limited and can't compete with the likes of a Surface Pro 3 or even Surface 3. Even an Android tablet would be a better option. With my Nexus 9 I can log into the LDAP and gain access to all my allowed users NAS storage, mount it as a local asset. Set file extensions to open up certain apps, etc. Trying to do this in iOS is like trying to put a round peg into a square one. You can do it with a bit of force but your going against it's designed purpose. Apple needs to completely rewrite iOS, combine many functions found in OSX before I would ever consider using another mobile device from Apple.
you really nailed it, i am a web developer and i often fail to tell my friends how the ios is very limiting for even the basic stuff (my basic stuff). android is far better as far as the os go. Now i am using a surface pro 3 and never looked back, very good in meetings, and it is now my main machine for 98% of my work.
Sounds like you know close to nothing about the Ax chips. They are custom Apple designs, and they also optimize their OS for them. I bet you thought Intrinsity and PA Semi were just marketing facades that didn't actually do anything before Apple acquired them years ago, right?
Apple spent billions acquiring semiconductor companies and is one of the few companies along with Qualcomm that has a license to make ARM chips. Anand himself highlighted this while showing that Apple's custom designs matched or exceeded Intel's Bay Trail.
You really think their custom designs are something to be dismissed just because of the name on the package? The fanboy is strong in your posts
How little people know. The A rm chip was due to Apple. They needed a chip for the Newton, the first PDA, a term Apple invented, by the way. They looked around, and went to acorn. The convinced them, and VSI to get together on a mobile version of Acorn's AM chip used in British school computers. Apple contributed specs, firmware and microcode.
Apple was also responsible for the Power PC chip, getting Motorola and IBM together on that, also supplying specs, firmware and microcode.
They design their highly rated A series of chips.
They've also designed their own system chips for the Power PC.
So yeah, it's easy to diss Apple when you try hard, and don't know much.
Microsoft uses intel, intel fab's their own chips.. apple designs chips and has a contractor fab them. Intel advances lithography much faster than these contractor fabs. it is known. ask nvidia and amd how long their contractor has made them stay on the same node. 4 years
plus moores law is coming to a end for both intel and tsmc/samsung contractors. 3d chip design is the future
no intel is way ahead because their lithography can make chips of all sizes these contractor fabs (TSMC, Samsung) fall apart when the chip gets bigger than 130mm. That's why you dont see Nvidia and AMD using 20nm or even 16nm atm. TSMC just cant make chips that big without destroying yields. their process is nowhere near as advanced as intel's..
Unfortunately for intel, we are in a era where competitors have the technology to disect and sand down Chips layers away to steal transistor designs. Chipworks will gladly do this for samusng/tsmc and spill all of intel's secrets for $.
If i were intel, i'd be suing the hell out of both of them. because intel created fin fet.
Transistor designs are not a very big secret, even Intel publishes pictures of their new advancements... and if you look there's plenty of scientific papers about it, the secret is how to make them in big scale and with good yields, and this is the most complex part. The big secrets are not in the processors themselves they are in the factories and computers there, that's why companies don't allow journalists in so easily or if they do it's on a very well defined program to not show too much.
Trade secret and patent are two very different things. Actually yielding out devices is the hard part, and the time/resources to R&D them are huge. Fin-fet is not owned by intel. There's a huge amount of misinformation in these comments. (Source: Employee of one of the three companies mention in parent).
Did you actually read the post? Cause your response says otherwise. He stated plain facts about a lack of access to new mfg node processes that have greatly benefited their chips over the last few years.
Surface- "is a huge threat to iPad, because of it's versatility." Maybe in your open, technical view of things but most Apple users would never dream of changing ecosystems. They lose significant functionality doing so as they are comfortable with Apple and its applications such as Safari, iMessage, iTunes etc. Apple people want something that works for them in the most simplistic way, and that is consistent. Going Windows for them is a bottomless pit of turmoil to them. So compare TDP, nodes, whatever, the Apple faithful could care less.
"Maybe in your open, technical view of things but most Apple users would never dream of changing ecosystems. They lose significant functionality doing so as they are comfortable with Apple and its applications such as Safari, iMessage, iTunes etc."
More BS from the clueless Apple faithful. Please explain to me how anyone would lose functionality going from a toy like the iPad to a full PC like the Surface? The Surface hardware not only has far greater functionality than the iPad, and Windows has far more functionality than iOS.
"Apple people want something that works for them in the most simplistic way, and that is consistent. Going Windows for them is a bottomless pit of turmoil to them. "
The Apple people are stupid sheep who can't think for themselves, and I hate to break it to you, but Apple consumers are a very small market compared to the overall PC and tablet market. Even in phones they are a small minority. So who gives a damn what they thing.
As for Windows being a bottomless pit of turmoil, spoken like an Apple shill who is so far up Apple's backside, he can't even see daylight. Windows 10 works simply and beautifully on a Surface Pro 3, and there is no turmoil to be found anywhere. So your argument is garbage.
Do you honestly expect anyone to take your comments seriously when you write stuff like "… a toy like the iPad to a full PC like the Surface"? You then include terms like "Apple faithful," "Apple shill," "so far up APple's backside," but call an actual, reasonable argument regarding pros and cons of utility as garbage. IF you had a point somewhere you completely lost it with excessive anti-Apple position that never even attempted to make an objective comment.
There was no "reasoned argument", it was just a claim that somehow switching from iOS to Windows would "lose functionality". That's ludicrous. This so-called "reasoned argument" you mentioned even claimed people would rather use iOS Safari than be on Windows where you can run REAL Firefox, IE, Edge, Chrome... I don't care how faithful you may be to Apple, PLEASE tell me you'd rather use a full real web browser of your choice than mobile Safari! :-O
The issue for me is that the notable feature on the Surface is the form factor, but the benefit of the form factor is ease of use, media consumption and mobility, and in all those area's the iPad is a superior device - it's lighter, has a much longer batter life and has hundreds of thousands of apps that are natively designed for a touch interface. The Surface is obviously the superior productivity device, but I just don't see anyone really cranking out spreadsheets, photoshop, etc on it in a mobile, touch form factor. At a minimum you probably want to be at a desk, if not docked into a full desktop environment - if that's the case there's no benefit to the form factor.
For me, my iPad is my preferred device to check email, browse the web, read, play games, stream movies/music, etc. From the time I have spent with the Surface I can say that while I can do some of those things on it, it's not a preferred format to do it - works in a pinch, but would prefer other form factors. The navigation and usage of native iOS apps is superior to Win8/10 conterparts (when there are even direct comparables), plus its just a lot more comfortable device to hold for several hours.
your still talking about the 13" ipad pro man? thats what we are comparing here. It's huge, must be held with 2 hands, and is heavy without a kickstand. to do any extensive typing, your gonna need a tablet stand, and then you cant use touch. must have keyboard.
its just to big (and heavy) to do what your typical use case is on a ipad. sure it's cool for artist, but it's gonna slide around on the table when your drawing unless you have it on some sort of stand.
Sorry but you're miss-informed. The MD here has a Surface Pro 3. The QA guy has one. The H.R. lady has a Pro 2. The sales guys have a mix and I use an i3 SP3 at home. if you add the dock you've an instant desktop replacement.
...and yes these guys do heavy Excel work.
Last year, while waiting in an airport, I use my then pro 2 to launch a VM that holds all my design stuff. I took a picture with my 1020, threw it into the VM, messed around with the picture and uploaded. That VM held my video editing software etc. Why compromise with an ipad? The weight difference is hardly an issue.
P.s. I also own an Air 2, which I like, but it really is a toy and my fav app is SimCity Builit :)
I agree in that while the Suface 3 Pro is my primary deive, it could really just be any laptop (or Macbook) because I just use it at my desk, and I never use it in tablet mode because it gets quite hot and noisy. Likewise it's not stable enough to use in laptop replacement mode (due to the kickstand design) pretty much anywhere but a flat surface like on the tube, bus etc.
"For me, my iPad is my preferred device to check email, browse the web, read, play games, stream movies/music, etc. "
Maybe I haven't tweaked the setup enough, but I find my wife's iPad very frustrating to use for web browsing. 90% of the time, it is great, but then I try to do something simple like fill in a web form and suddenly it is completely unusable. I cannot scroll text within form boxes, I cannot move the cursor in a reasnable way for editing, there are no arrow keys, hover text hides what I am writing, etc.
Say what you like about Windows and laptops, and there is lots wrong with them, but as productivity devices they just provide a more efficient experience. Then there is Flash content, handling certain file types, dealing with files in general.
I also prefer not having to hold the device I am using, and clamshells are just better ergonomically for that.
That "toy" has more graphical and computational power than ANY Surface devices available. It also has better battery life, better accessories (Apple Pencil) and better hardware design.
Did I misspell something? I said the iPad Pro is better than the surface graphically, computationally, aesthetically, and accessorily. It's not a "toy" by any stretch of the imagination.
Sure the iPad Pro is better than the Surface. It was running a Tegra 3 which was woefully underpowered for the device to begin with.
Now the Surface 3, that might be a toss up because it depends on what metric Apple used when claiming A9X is "faster than 80% of portable PCs shipped". For all I know, they were comparing it with all the Atom based tablets and convertibles and by "faster", maybe like 5%.
"More graphical and computational power than ANY Surface devices available" you are joking right? That ARM architecture is nowhere near as powerful as an Intel i7, when an iPad can do something like this we'll talk: http://www.jcallaghan.com/wp-content/uploads/daisy...
They already can. Using Apple AirPlay you can use alternate displays. That is the most useless thing I've ever seen a tablet do. My desktop is for multiple displays, not my tablet. My tablet is for portability and power. All these features don't mean jack with the market share Microsoft has, anyway. According to Geekbench, the highest scoring multicore Surface 3 device has an i7 4650U and scores less than 2000 points above the Air 2. If the Pro is 90% faster than the air then suddenly the pro is about 1500 points ahead of the fastest surface. Apple even said themselves that is'd going to be faster than 80% of portable PCs shipped in the last 12 months.
A fully functional OS that needs first party anti-malware and weekly updates to keep it from being overrun with toolbars... There are some advantages to being "stripped down".
You should really try verifying Apple's previous claims before assuming they're reflected in Geekbench. Apple claimed the IPad Air 2 had 40% faster CPU performance and 150% faster GPU performance than the previous IPad Air. However, their single core Geekbench results only showed a 23.24% increase. So going by the same Geekbench scaling factor, their new 80% faster claim would result in something around a 46.5% higher single core Geekbench score than the Air 2, or roughly a 2650. That would mean that the now-15-month-old Surface Pro 3 with the dual core i7 4650U is 22.64% faster. If this is accurate, that would put the A9X chip at 10% slower than the Core M 5y71 in the new Macbook, which is interesting as they're both 4.5w TDP processors.
Now, the multicore score did show a 72.63% increase, but only because it added a third core. Similarly, the Mediatek octacore MT6795 outperformed the IPad Air 2's multicore score, despite having a single core score less than half as high. Also, as the number of cores remains the same as the Air 2, the multicore score will not result in the same kind of scaling.
i would think that their claims are based on the multi-core score as they never claimed the "single-core performance increased by 40%". So assuming their claims of an 80% faster CPU are applied to the multi-core score, you'd get a score around 8000, which is pretty insane for a tablet. If you were to compare that to a Mac, you'd find that it slightly beats out the current high-end rMBP 13 inch. yes, the rMBP only has 2 cores, but it's also 28W (probably due to the high clock speed) versus the ~5-7W A9X.
To be honest, I don't think they could have achieved an 80% improvement in speed without either doing some serious frequency scaling (which would greatly increase power consumption) or adding a 4th core. Which is why my guess is that in addition to architectural improvements, they slightly increased the clock speed of each core and added a 4th core to get the speed increases that they wanted. What is most interesting to me is the prospect that a single A9X core may be similar in performance/watt to Intel's Core CPUs.
Actually a playstation 4 WOULD be useful for productive tasks if productive software was released for it. Consoles are basically appliance computers after all.
When you say 'Surface' do you mean The Surface RT, Surface 2 and Surface 3? Fair enough. The next version of the 'Surface' might feature Core m which should be right on the cash for beating, just, this new ipad Pro.
Don't even suggest that it's anywhere near the i5 let alone the i7
It's called a "toy" because all that "power" it has is relegated the iPad to just being a consumption device. The OS is not developed enough to make it a serious creation tool.
"The OS is not developed enough to make it a serious creation tool." That is not true at all. There is no OS-dependent reason why an equivalent pretty much any desktop software could not run on a high end iPad like the iPad Pro. Desktop applications themselves do not rely on the user having full access to the file system. Of course user interaction would have to be redone to compensate for the lack of a mouse, but the power and OS services required to get the work done are there.
One issue here, the lack of a file system. It makes organization, copying, managing, importing and exporting of data impossible in iOS. Which is needed for apps to function for the user like their desktop bretheren.
There is a file system, of course. But it is not exposed to the user.
Apple's idea is that manual organization of the file system is an obsolete concept for most users. iOS apps allow you to import and export files without having direct file system access. Of course, due to the lack of direct file system access, the user has much less control over exactly how his files are organized, and must rely upon app-internal organization and cloud services to manage files.
The claim being made by Apple haters is that full user access to the file system is absolutely necessary. The claim being made by Apple is that full user access to the file system is more complexity than most users need or are able to handle, and that in the long run it will be seen as no more necessary than the manual layout of data in main memory -- something that was seen as critically important in the early days of computing, but which now, of course, is completely irrelevant to everyone except people writing operating systems.
It remains to be seen who is correct. I suspect Apple is, but we'll have to wait a while to find out.
Why is it that people were creating stuff on primitive operating systems back in the 90's with far less power available than the iPad, yet for some reason you think that the iPad's os isn't developed enough and it can't be used for productivity. This is someone that used to use Mac OS7/8/9 back in the day and did a lot of producing on those systems, which were limited to cooperative multitasking.
"The Apple people are stupid sheep who can't think for themselves, and I hate to break it to you, but Apple consumers are a very small market compared to the overall PC and tablet market."
A sheep is someone who follows the crowd, yet you state in your next sentence that the crowd is overwhelmingly using windows.
I use a MS Surface Pro 3 and own an iPad Air 2 and I think the gap has narrowed in terms of what the ipad can't do (especially with a keyboard like the optional surface pro 3 keyboard) now that MS Office Web Apps run on them which is 90% of what the majority of working people need it to do. Now, obviously the Surface can do far more as a full blown Windows machine, and the software for it generally exists already. I as a power user and developer enjoy having that much control of full Windows and I need it. However it also has the historic disadvantages of running full windows which made people stop using it i.e. overheating, updates, security problems etc and complexity. For the average user who has been using an iPad in meetings for the last 5 years, Surface as an option really wasn't good enough as it was underpowered, battery poor, too small and too expensive. They have now changed to work with iPad and are used to working around some of the limitations and adapting their workflows.
The reality is that the majority of users can get by with an iPad running a modern iOS with the appropriate apps unless they are doing something specialised like Visio, Photoshop or Maya or whatever. Speaking to the influencers and people with the power in business to change this through my job, the general consensus is that while they do like the Surface 3, and can see why having mobile Windows devices operating with a Windows enterprise stack makes things like SharePoint, and other enterprise MS software a much easier proposition, the reality is that MS has also made all it's software far more iPad friendly because the frightening alternative was people moving away from using software that didn't work on the iPad completely. We have zero choice on making software compatible with iPad because that's what people are using, period, and this can't change overnight. Apple has not properly targeted the corporate market other than maiking the devices basically compatible with things like VPN, Active Sync etc. because they haven't had any competition, but it wouldn't surprise me if they started taking it a bit more seriously.
I think MS don't help themselves by changing their minds and approach constantly on things like RT, Windows Apps and others. Businesses are only now starting to gain confidence that they are serious about the Surface program, and who is to say they won't decide to can it next year if the iPad Pro is a success and they want to focus on software and farm it out to Dell/Hp etc?
So nobody doubts that the Surface Pro 3 is a more capable device because it just is, but is it an appropriate device in an App centric world where most enterprise software can be delivered through a thin, light, cool-running iPad with Mobile Safari as a tier 1 browser via Office 365?
"most Apple users would never dream of changing ecosystems"
Opinions.... Most have no brand loyalty whatsoever, and will move to the newer "best thing" as claimed by their peers in a heartbeat.
iPads are great consumption devices, even I was suckered into buying one because my dad wanted one (his friend told him it was the best....."rolling eyes"). They are successful in part because of the devices themselves (and the brand), but that's not the major reason why. The more important reason is the *lack* of proper/legitimate competition in the iPad's target market.
Tablets running mobile OSs are NOT a necessity in peoples lives. They're more like a novelty some of us buy for "convenience", and are easily replaced by phablets for most consumers. Those who want one, and are willing to pay, will find the iPad very appealing for its performance, smoothness, and selection of media consumption and companion apps. It's a proven product in that respect, and those who're paying the premium don't want to deal with "other issues".
Android has had lots of trouble getting its performance and framerate game together. Google, and it's utter failure to deliver is at fault. Samsung is NOT a software company, and no matter how good and feature rich their modifications to Android are, lots of people will still find them "clunky" because these modifications were never native to the OS. Google's recent versions of Android are too little, too late. While stock Android is now fast and smooth, it still doesn't stand a chance against Touchwiz in neither features nor usability. Let me say this straight for those who think Touchwix is bad; the absolute majority of consumers HATE stock Android with a passion (tech blogs and XDA are NOT the majority of consumers, not by a long shot). Let me say one more thing if that wasn't offensive enough for stock Android lovers: While I personally believe Android is the king of smartphones (for now), it is the very reason why the non-iPad tablet market is so bad, confusing, cheap, and has no future.
Windows RT (now Windows 10 Mobile, without the desktop) was the absolute best mobile OS ever to be installed on an ARM powered tablet IMHO. But it had a mix of management, timing and media conception problems (and sabotage), resulting in the alienation of both users and devs.
Microsoft are really late to the consumer game, so late it's painful. They shouldn't have settled for firing Sinofsky, and everyone else behind how Windows 8/RT was executed, they should make sure they never find a career in tech.
The Surface Pro is very successful and popular because its intended audience know exactly how capable it is. These guys don't need extensive advertising.
True, it's Android (or rather more accurately, Samsung) on smartphones that forced Apple to reconsider lots of their design decisions with their iPhones. But it's Windows that's forcing them to change the face of iOS on their iPads.
There are 3 major markets for tablets: 1) consumers (dominated by Apple) 2) prosumers (spread among Apple and Microsoft, with some Android users here and there) 3) professionals and content creators (dominated by Microsoft).
Apple's latest updates to iOS and the iPad are primarily for maintaining the second type. Because the first type couldn't give a rat's behind how a productive a tablet is.
Wrong. iPads get used by professionals (in addition to "prosumers") all the time for content creation tasks while on the go like music recording, viewing tablature, reviewing photos with clients, etc. Just because the content creation isn't happening on the tablet doesn't mean it's not getting used as part of a content creation workflow.
That said: they are not a professionals primary content creation device. They're a secondary device that gets used when it's not reasonable to use the primary device for some reason.
The Surface is going to fall into the same boat. Someone who does these types of content creation tasks is probably going to want something more powerful than Surface for their regular work. The iPad Pro and the Surface will both be used when the primary device is not available.
Also, you are absolutely correct in that the vast majority of iPads (and computers) sold are as consumption devices. That's why the iPad mini exists!
Yikes. A koolaid fight has broken out and everyone is drunk on their brand of OS punch. You clowns are worse the the GPU fanbois. Makes reading the comments at AT a waste of time. Now get back to your respective OS shrines.
"Just because the content creation isn't happening on the tablet doesn't mean it's not getting used as part of a content creation workflow".
That was exactly my point, and the point you emphasized in your last paragraph. iPads (even the lateset "Pro") can never be used for standalone, real professional work. The iPad "Pro" might be good for simple sketching at best... I mean, the new "pencil" doesn't even support hover or palm rejection, nor does the "Pro" run any full blown professional programs.
There's nothing an iPad can do that a Surface can't (provided the mobile app is there). But the Surface can also replace laptops for many consumers, they can be the sole PCs of many prosumers, and they can be the mobile workstations of professionals because they can run the full blown programs their used to. Something iPads can never do.
Android was never a real threat to iPads. However, while Apple isn't worried about the Surface series in particular, the real threat to iPads lies in Windows 10 and Universal Windows Platform.
I can't wait for a Samsung made Wacom Windows 10 tablet with a Core M7.
I'm not contradicting myself. Your argument seems to be that since it could be used as an all around replacement for every computer, professionals are using the Surface that way. My observation is that you are wrong. People who make money doing creative work generally don't have an MS based workflow, at all, and that even if they did, they'd probably still only use the Surface as a primary computer when absolutely necessary. If you're making money at your job and doing creative work, you're going to want a more powerful computer with more storage than the Surface as your main computer.
I have a feeling that you have never worked with any professionals. They don't want Swiss Army knives. They want dedicated tools to get their work done easily and quickly. I'll sort of take that back: they do want the Swiss Army knife device, just as a secondary or tertiary device, not as a primary.
This is changing. Some creatives are moving to Windows-based workflows as there are shifts in the industry, and Surface Pro is significant part of that. Ever since the first Surface Pro came out, the question among creatives is "Can it run Photoshop?" (Yes, it can.) Since that day, I think most creatives realize that iPads are consumption only. If you can have a tablet that is a presentation device that also lets you do actual work on a train or at a coffee shop between meetings, then isn't that better, even if it doesn't have iMessage?
Apple has had some missteps lately in the creative world. The garbage can look-alike Mac Pro is selling so poorly that I don't know anyone who owns one. Adobe's Premiere Pro takeover of Final Cut market share is significant and seems to be accelerating. It is getting harder and harder to justify the IT costs of supporting a department of Macs in an otherwise Windows environment, just to get the graphics work done. (Yes, Macs need support. They are not magic.) Most artists are getting used to using Windows through Boot Camp, and Windows 10 is actually a really nice experience.
You are right that it is fairly safe to assume a creative is working on a Mac these days, but devices like Surface Pro are very impressive, even to us creatives. iPad Pro, to me, looks like a Surface Pro without the ability to run any of the apps that I really want to run. Let's face it, Creative Cloud programs like Photoshop and After Effects are where the money is, not those silly ideation apps Adobe keeps trying to push.
Most creatives work on a workstation with a Wacom tablet and multiple monitors for maximum productivity. Given the creative's standard equipment of a primary workstation, a secondary tablet/laptop, and a smartphone, I am guessing a lot of creatives would choose Surface Pro over iPad (Pro or otherwise) as their secondary device.
Most proper creatives doing it as a job that I know still use Apple, mainly for historic reasons it has to be said (try getting creatives to change tooling!) and the fact that the Surface Pro 3 runs Photoshop avoids the question of how well it runs it. The pen accuracy and pressure sensitivity as well as the display scaling are significant issues which hobble the SP3 to some extent and mean that it can't be used as a dedicated tool. The pen is designed primarily for OneNote, after all.
The great unknown is the software for the iPad Pro. If Appl ecan persuade Adobe to release versions of CC and Micrososft to release versions of Office which are compiled for it with pen compatibility, then I can see it doing very well as all the User interface problems of not having a precision input device or keyboard will be solved.
A Macbook Pro is a much better laptop than the Surface and an iPad is a much better tablet. The value of the Surface is that it combines both. If you want to combine both devices while introducing compromises then its a good option. There's certainly something to be said for having fewer things.
they'll lose imessage and facetime.. they dont care about safari, and everyone can agree that itunes is garbage. you seriously cited itunes as a reason to stay apple? Simplistic device are great and all, but it severely limits how you can improve them 5-10 years down the road without inherently making them more complex (therefore losing the simplicity)
they are made of metal and are nice looking. the ui looks like a candy shop. they are successful because the iphone is successful. you think it will stay this way for much longer tho? It remains to be seen, but odds are not in their favor.
apple is pushing everyone to apps, even website developers (by ad blocking). apple is a compartmentalized experience on each device. They created lots of devices that only do a few things (but do them well) and then hope you buy all of them so they make lots of money.
meanwhile competitors with complex systems which allow you to do much more with fewer devices, but has steeper learning curve. do you want to pack 3-4 devices that each do a couple of things good, or 1-2 devices that can do everything.
let the market decide over the next 10 years, but eventually people will wise up and spend less money and pack less gadgets
Windows users are the cybermen of the computer world.
Windows user: "We are four million, how many are you?" Apple User: "We are FOUR" Windows user: "You will beat us with only FOUR apple users?" Apple User: "We will beat you with ONE Apple User! You are better than us at only one thing." Windows user: "What is that?" Apple User: "You are better at failing."
The problem is that windows is jsut a horrible OS. It is a sloppy slobbery steamign pile of dung to navigate on a tablet. And it is still very broken and has always been broken and will likely always remain broken. Stuff that should work simpyl doesnt work reliably. Even the windows store sometimes fails to function on my win 8 tablet. Yes, it fails to load the frickin store! Sometimes windows update simply ceases to function. It drains a full battery overnight just sitting in standby. When you open the onscreen keyboard it often covers up the text box that you are typing in. When you close the keyboard it sometimes leaves a huge chunk of your window missing, forcing you to click the minimize and maximize buttons to fix it. There is an endless list of issues like these that no one should want to deal with. I now use my windows tablet STRICTLY for playing videos. Anything else, and I mean ANYTHING, results in complete frustration and a desire to smash the device into pieces. Anyone who says otherwise is simply deluded or not a productive computer user.
Yep, these are issues everyone that uses Windows faces, but very few talk about them when Apple is in the discussion. When Apple is the subject, Windows is idealized as a flawless "full OS", and people claim that there is no reason someone would prefer iOS for mobile tasks. Insanity I tell ya.
What does this mean? Win handles memory better? That is, give the same amount of ram, you can't open the same number of "files for productivity tasks" on osx/linux? The window managment is better? IN what way?
Again, what do you mean "manage"? For very large file sets a cli is typically going to be faster (and in that case all the desktops assuming powershell is installed) should work fine. I guess I just find these sorts of complaints nebulous to the point of preference masquerading as some sort of fact. I'm not saying you're not right but windows had never had s particularly sophisticated window manager especially compared to osx/kwin/compiz, and file management should be pretty equivalent on all the DEs.
It is only harder if you don't know the file system that well. I find it incredibly easy to navigate.
"I just found it harder to manage a very large number of files in OSX"
Well use automator if you need to do something with a large number of files. Personally, I'm annoyed that you need to get third party software in windows to do some basic stuff that's provided first party in OSX. You know, like make .zip files and .pdf's.
Yer, even though you've been using a macbook since 2011, perhaps you just don't know how to use it efficiently. I have no issue dealing with large amounts of files in OSX which I have to do as a web developer...
A billion dollar business. As if that means anything. Microsoft sold possibly as many as 3.5 million Surface tablets in the past 12 months. Apple sold about 55 million. I doubt Apple is worried about Surface.
And as for business, it amazes me how little people seem to know. 75% of all tablets in business and government are iPads. Most of the rest are Android tablets used in less critical applications. A handful of Surface tablets can be found, mostly in IT.
LOL. On top of all the ridiculous stuff you managed to say, you of course are still blind to the most obvious fact - surface pro is just a horrible TABLET compared to the iPad.
The surface is a billion dollar a year business while apple makes well over 20 billion a year in iPad sales alone. Not to mention app and media sales from Apple's app and iTunes stores.
Apple has sold a quarter billion iPads total since the launch in 2010.
Lucky for getting a developing a new core from scratch every year?
Apple is absolutely smoking Intel, and is literally years ahead of ARM. To be honest, Apple has been FAR ahead of everyone since the A6 Swift Core in the iPhone 5 completely thrashed Krait, only 6 months after Krait released.
Qualcomm went on to use Krait for 4 years. Apple replaced Swift with a brand new, completely custom 64bit Cyclone cores the very next year.
Your problems are more about Samsung than Android. My Nexus 10 was released in 2012 and is still getting updates (although I think that it's probably getting close to the end).
His problem is with both, one of the supposed benefits of Android is different hardware choice/options, but if the only choice to get reliable updates is to go with a Nexus device (and of course it depends if the user cares about getting OS updates), then the hardware choice factor is notably damaged.
Samsung's implementation is not better in almost any respect. Performance has always been an issue with the SoCs Samsung ships in their tablets, and this applies even more so when you're using multiple applications at once. The interface is also implemented in a very slow and non-obvious manner. Having to touch, hold, and drag apps in order to start multitasking is much slower than any swipe and tap interaction, and there are several options that are accessed by tapping the dot in the middle of the slider between two apps. There's no affordance to tell the user that there's anything hidden there, and it's not something so obvious that there doesn't need to be one.
I still give Samsung a lot of credit for working within the constraints they are by adding something that Google should have added at the OS level long ago, but that doesn't change how it's a pretty clunky implementation.
For a long time now. Anything released after the iPad 4 was not competitive with whatever Apple's latest iPad was, and that gap kept growing as Samsung put n-1 SoCs in their tablets. It's the same even now, with the Tab S2 shipping with Exynos 5433 running in AArch32 mode while their best phones get Exynos 7420.
With the new touchwiz, there's no tap hold. Just tap recent and multitask away. They have improved it significantly. I think you should have still mentioned Samsung in the article regarding multi-tasking/split screen as they made it popular in the mobile space. Or otherwise it has been prohibited by Apple.
Yeah, the Windows tablet market is almost non-existent outside of the Surface lineup....but good thing the Surface lineup is a massive billion-dollar business and appears to be growing significantly, and all this before Windows 10 was even released. So who knows how many sales were discouraged because of Windows 8 being on there instead.
"massive" billion dollar business..get some clue. That "massive" business is only one fifth of the iPad revenues. Microsoft was actually close to terminating the surface line
Agreed, before the SP3 started to take off, it sat in the market for a while with a load of "Almost but not quite" reviews and they were actually very close to canning the whole endeavour. I'm glad they didn't because I bought one, which I generally quite like as I'm a geek. Now, of course, things are admittedly looking slightly better for them, but everything is relative, a billion dollars is not that much considering how much they have historically put into the business and lost. They seem to be paving an exit from making the actual hardware by making it a Surface Program IMO to farm out to OEMs.
The surface industry is very small next to what apple and samsung are doing. A billion dollars sounds like a lot of money until you look at how much money Apple is raking in on the iPad.
On the contrary, we'd love to do a day one review. However Google's rollout system isn't quite as accommodating, which makes it harder to get something out right away.
Google needs to handle their beta process better. The final Android M preview still doesn't have Now on Tap. There's no point in trying to review an OS for day one when major features are missing.
What possible reason is there to restrict Content Blockers to the ARMv8 ISA? I can't imagine that the iPhone 5 and iPad 4 don't have the juice to run a frickin' ad blocker.
The iPhone 5 and iPad 4 could be fine, but the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S probably has more than enough problems that it was easier for them to draw the line with the new ISA rather than burden developers with having to build and test for two different ISAs just to support a couple of devices.
It's pretty sad that Apple beat Google to the multitasking (split screen) front. In the past, Android tablets were always condidered to be the "power user tablets" and more capable, despite the smaller selection of apps. And they were built with a more ideal aspect ratio for split screen viewing, but only Samsung bothered to utilize it. Google has no excuse for not having built it into stock Android by now.
"A note taking app where you can put in anything for IOS, wow pioneers. NO OneNote has been doing this for years."
Yes, clearly Apple needed inspiration from Microsoft for this since the company that brought you the Newton over 20 years ago (which had even better note taking capabilities) couldn't have come up with this on their own.
The Newton was a PDA, not even the first one really just a clone of the others.
For tablets, Microsoft had a spec for a Windows tablet PC long before Apple. It was 2002 when the first Tablet PCs started hitting the shelves.
Apple has never truly been original or innovative. Everyone claims Apple had the first GUI, no Xerox did and Xerox gave the idea to Microsoft and Apple.
Apple is just really good at marketing and because their products are so idiot proof and appeal to the not so tech savvy, Look at how easily even toddlers can use an iPhone/iPad, they sell as the masses are not so tech savvy.
Personally I laugh at people. People think the iPod was the first MP3 player, again there were other superior ones like the Creative Zen Blaster (which Creative also sued Apple for the MP3 player GUI and won) or the Sony Walkman.
As said, Apple is just really good at marketing their product which has a big effect, even if they are not superior products. Most people buy products they know and have heard of.
Check your facts, Newton was pretty much the first PDA. The British Psion was earlier, but never got much market outside of the UK. Palm, WinCE, etc. came after Newton.
The Newton got beat up because of the HW recognition, but after a couple years of development it was pretty darn good.
Someone seems to make the mistake assuming that making devices for the masses is an easy thing. And it's not nice to laugh at people. It makes a person sound arrogant and unlikeable. :-P
Who really cares who came out with an idea first - what matters is how it's implemented.
As an iPad4 owner and a Windows tablet owner, I am pretty disappointed with my Windows tablet (running Windows 10). The Windows store is still crappy, and I've had a lot of Apps crash on me. Even solitaire stopped working on my tablet, and the fix was to install VLC player (which re-installed a few things that a Microsoft update removed to kill solitaire!). I've given up an their Apps, too buggy and missing features. The desktop experience isn't bad, but it really does seem like I'm fighting with it all the time just to do simple things. If that was the only tablet I had, I could live with it, but the iPad just does things so much better and smoother. It's my goto device. If I want to do real work, then a laptop is much better,
It's nice to see an in-depth and technical articles pointing out that Apple has been scrimping on RAM this entire time. This should silence the ignorant fanboys that Apple "knows best" and IOS is so much more efficent to Android. The fact of the matter is that Apple got away with such low RAM because they don't advertise the amount and that people were just used to their tabs/apps closing due to limited RAM.
I thought the first three years of iOS the RAM amount was okay for the time, mostly because at the time it launched, 128MB actually was a lot of RAM for a mobile device, and there wasn't any thing to compare it to.
Since then I've pretty much felt every generation has had half the RAM it ought to have. The ipad 1 should have had 512MB (at least). The 2 should have had 1GB. The Air should have had 2-4, and the Air 2/Pro probably ought to have 4GB+ by this point...
It's impossible to measure properly. I haven't noticed any decrease in battery life but I wouldn't put any confidence in that anecdote even though it's my own.
Presumably the only way it would is just the extra CPU/GPU getting used by the second program. In most cases I'd guess the effect would be very minimal, at least if a program is coded decently, since you're probably not going to be using two programs that use a ton of CPU simultaneously, or one might be sitting more or less idle for the time you're interacting with the other one, that sort of thing.
"" In my view, the addition of multitasking just puts the iPad experience even farther ahead of other tablets. Obviously Windows has a similar implementation, but the unfortunate truth is that the Windows tablet market is almost non-existent at this point outside of the Surface lineup"
LOL! What a complete load of BS you pathetic Apple shill. The multi-tasking experience in Windows 10 walks all over the iPad, and the Surface Pro 3 just curb stomps the iPad Pro. Don't even get me started on how Apple completely ripped off the multi-tasking from Microsoft. It's the exact same impementation.
I also find your comment about the Windows tablet market funny, especially considering iPad sales have been declining for many quarters now. I suspect you don't have damn clue what the Windows tablet market is.
I can't believe them saying multitasking is better than Windows tablet and Samsung tablets when the iPad pretty much copied the same thing. SMH really....
My take on it was that that comment was really aimed at Android. Obviously multitasking on a real OS like Windows is always going to destroy what these mobile/limited OSes can do, but I took it that the comment was like really just comparing it to Android.
Though Android has seemed utterly pointless on tablets ever since Windows 8/Surface hit. iOS has some tablet-style programs that are missing from Windows (even if obviously Windows has far more programs overall) so there's some benefit there, potentially, but Android?
Yeah, I read that as multitasking between tablet apps, which is somewhat limited in Windows by app selection, which is kind of right and kind of missing the point.
No, Apple's multi-tasking isn't exactly literally the same thing as that from Windows 8/RT, it's the implementation from 8/RT but with severe limitations on how you control the split between apps unlike Windows' total freedom as long as each app gets its minimum room, and with some ugly kludges tacked on to hide a painfully wrongheaded initial app UI model.
”Don't even get me started on how Apple completely ripped off the multi-tasking from Microsoft. It's the exact same implementation.”
Then one could argue the Task View in Windows 10 is ripped off from the Exposé feature from OS X 10.3 that came out 2003. I think they keep taking stuff from each other back and forth.
One aspect that would have been interesting to read in the review is that how does IOS9 behave in extremely resource-constrained environments, such as the iPhone 4S and iPad 2. Is it faster/more efficient than IOS8?
I am wondering why it still take 60MB for a Twitter Client. Even the Pinterest 35MB is huge in my opinion. Since most of the heavy lifting are done in the OS already. I was expecting these apps to be within 20 - 30MB range.
And the people who are complaning about the review are the ones who also complain about the recent Apple Pencil. Whenever we are on the topic of Apple, there are basically two types of people,
Those who don't understand Apple, and those who misunderstand Apple.
Probably because all the images and videos your buddies send are stored on your device and counted as part of the app's total size. If you're on Android, go to settings -> apps -> Whatsapp and clear Data. A fresh install of Whatsapp is 24MB on my phone.
I gave up on both Google Keep and Apple’s Notes, as in my experience neither syncs reliably.
I’ve ended up using Google Docs for notes, as it pretty much does sync fine…weird since it’s also from Google.
“What would have been optimal for RAM would be if Apple had moved to 2GB with A7 to offset the additional memory usage of 64bit applications, and moved to 4GB in the next generation iPads (Air 2, future devices) to accommodate multitasking”
Absolutely! I really thought the iPhone 5s/iPad Air should have shipped with 2GB…for years now I’ve felt Apple’s been shipping virtually every iOS device with half the RAM it should have, and I was utterly stunned when even the iPhone 6 continued shipping with only 1GB.
The original Surface 1 (ARM) has similar specs to the iPad 2 in terms of CPU/GPU, but 4x the RAM, and runs a desktop web browser (and office suit for that matter). It’s VAAAAAAAAAAASTLY more useable than dealing with mobile Safari and “multitasking” as it exists on iOS. This all sounds like a huge upgrade in iOS 9, but still, the limited RAM and way it’s implemented…oh well, it’s still a step forward.
I can see using remote desktop + Safari, or Safari + Mail at the same time on a iPad Pro as being a vastly superior experience to what’s available now on iOS, at least assuming this all works fairly decently.
On my iPad now, I literally half the time just remote in to a Windows 8 system to take advantage of the real multitasking (and file system) as it’s soooo much faster than slooowly loading a program, slowly switching, having the first program have to reload, tabs having to reload constantly, etc., etc., etc.
Regarding the back button issue, I STILL don’t really “get” having a system wide back button in Windows Phone and Android. The way it works isn’t consistent, and I still find it more confusing than just implementing a UI however you want it in your own program. I mean even with a back button that’s still what’s going on, as I’m often unsure (aside from just remembering on a case by case basis) what “back” is going to do at any given time. The back link sounds like it’ll be useful, maybe.
The “Safari view controller” sounds great, fixes some issues I’ve had, and I appreciate that it’s sandboxed from the host program that invoked it, though of course there’s the security \issue that you might not KNOW whether you’re in Safari or in the program proper.
Regarding “app thinning”, I wonder what happens with iTunes? Does iTunes get ALL the resources, and then sync all of them, or do the “thinning” when syncing to a specific device?
And there’s “GPU low/high”…but what happens as we get new GPUs in the future? I mean do “low/high” kind of correspond to specific GPUs? Will there be a “high 2”, etc. down the line?
I wonder too what happens to programs already installed? Do they have to be deleted and redownloaded from the store (or presumably when they get updated) to get “thinned”, and for that matter, what happens when you download something on an iOS device, and it syncs back to iTunes on a PC?
The “on demand resources” thing sounds idiotic. I don’t likes it!
The “bitcode” thing is a nifty idea though (though once again raises questions regarding iTunes).
Hmm…this does mean theoretically the 32GB on the iPad Pro should go a bit further than 32GB under iOS 8…
"the addition of multitasking just puts the iPad experience even farther ahead of other tablets." how so? I would not make that statement unless have used other tablets to this extent.
What iOS 9 is trying to do was well available in Surface RT years ago. Current Windows 10 is way powerful when it comes to productivity, iOS is still a consumption toy. Usual Apple, we are the first bs
Still no multi-user support, WTF? Am I expected to buy an iPad for everyone in the family? Ugh!
I don't need/want notifications when no one is logged into the device (use your phone if you want personal notifications). I just want per-User storage for settings, saved games, etc.
The news app has actually been one of my favorite new features, I was surprised at how well the basic RSS feed articles looked. I'm guessing you guys will start to support the app? I noticed Ars just started publishing articles for News.
I figured out my issue. You still cannot select more than 5 photos from the photos app to send directly to mail, but you can select them and use the "Copy" command, then paste that into a Mail message.
Personally I find the apps/ecosystem the most important part. I think Android/Apple are pretty much equal on phones. I've gone android because I like google maps/navigation and use google apps with a custom domain. Chrome on android sync's pretty well with desktop chrome etc.
For media tablets I think apple is still way ahead and my ipad's get way more use.
Productivity tablets, I guess depends what you need to be productive. The ipad is thinner, lighter, gets better battery life. I suppose if you just need a web browser and email it's probably fine.... but when I work I average around 20GB of ram in use from apps, tabs, a couple virtual machines etc on my desktop and can get by on 8GB of ram if I shut some stuff down. I have an ultrabook with 8GB that is just useable (core-m & ssd), I could have used a Surface Pro 3 (many friends and co-workers have them) but I wanted an attached keyboard.
I couldn't use an ipad pro for productivity. I could use a Surface Pro 3. At the pace we're going, maybe in 8 years or something IOS will have enough windows features I could use it.
Do you think so called as "Pro" productivity application has a lot less overhead in mobile operating system than full fledged operating system? Do you expect video, photo or audio editing software has a lot less overhead because it is designed for mobile operating system while the raw video or audio material consumes most of the RAM? What about Android? Could you keep the same claim for Android tablet? Yes, they are with different operating system, one with limited functionality designed for mobile use while the other with less limitation in functionality. I don't think you can justify one has limitation because it is based on mobile operating system when it is named as "Pro". If it is really a limitation, Apply may have chosen OS X instead of iOS.
Windows 10's surprisingly lean, and 2GB works fine unless you open tens of tabs in browser. And if you do the same 'pro application' you will end up using the same amount of memory no matter what OS you use. In fact, due to higher resolution of IPP it may put MORE overload instead.
You're right it wouldn't be 1:1. Also mobile apps are better at unloading parts of themselves from memory when not active and the OS aggressively unloads apps, both of which would help.
I'm just trying to envision even a basic development scenario and see how it would work on IOS. I'd want the IDE open, running code with an attached debugger, I'd need the website open in the browser, I'd need a database of some kind. Right, pretty basic stuff so far, I don't think an iPad pro could do that, at least not the way I am used to. A fully integrated tool, like Coda https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/coda-for-ios/id500... could do most of it - but I'd have to give up all my current tools and workflow to do it.
I suspect many professionals are in the same situation, would you give up your current tools and workflow for increased battery life and portability? I think this is a case of the hardware being ready and the software not being ready. Apple has done well enough that the software might come in a few years (why I said 8 years), but at least for me there really isn't a choice between the surface pro and the ipad pro, IOS and it's apps aren't up to it. I bet there are many use cases where the ipad pro would work well, I just don't think they are my use cases.
Wow, it is a really hilarious article, from extremely narrow apple ecosystem viewpoint. Maybe the author have NEVER used anything except apple deivces?
Maybe it's acknowledging that most people don't switch platforms. It'd be nice to have a broader comparison, but let's face it... many hardcore Android fans likely wouldn't accept any elements of this comparison that paint iOS in a favourable light.
It took Anand slightly over a week to write the 5s review, we also used to get timely updates on hardware bits and other interesting features. The iPhone 6 review came about 3 weeks after the announcement and ended with a statement that while cool it can't be as good as Android.
What is the reason for this, and can we expect more timely reviews and interesting side-pieces on Apple products?
iOS 9 have betas everyone can access, so they can start writing a review before it releases.
But to do the same for hardware review would require Apple/Samsung to trust the website with an early review device, which is not exactly accessible to everyone. Also Anandtech digs deeper into the hardware architecture compared to some other reviews. That would most likely cause delay, I think.
Are you serious? iOS and iDevice coverage has been fantastic, and has come out in a very timely fashion. Several of the most recent Android devices haven't even had reviews at all, and have been out longer than the 6S (I'm aware this hasn't been reviewed by Anand yet).
Nothing against Anand here, and I understand there's good reason for delays in reviewing products (their in-depth, comprehensive nature as an obvious reason), but they certainly aren't slow when it comes to Apple pieces..
What frustrates me is that as an iOS public beta tester, my phone got an upgrade to the beta of iOS 9.1 before iOS 9.0 was released. I upgraded without thinking - and as a result, I am stuck as to how I will transfer all my stuff to my new iPhone 6s when it arrives. iTunes, even the new v12.3, does not properly back up the iOS 9.1 beta phone, so even if I updated the new one to the iOS 9.1 beta first thing out of the box, I wouldn't have a good backup to restore to it. iCloud backups have been working only sporadically as well - and with a 4Mb/s ISP, will be inconvenient to download.
Question to the author - why aren't you considering Samsung Android in your conclusion? Care to explain why you give a whole iOS 9 tablet OS props for multitasking even while it applies ONLY for three iPad models, yet you diss a whole Android tablet OS even while entire Galaxy tablet line actually offers similar, and in some ways more advanced multitasking?
"Samsung Android" eh... Funny, not even Samsung actually refers to it that way. Serious question: do the Microsoft Office apps work with Samsung's split screen multitasking?
I'm jot using MS Office on Android, but I do know that apps that support multi-screen option can be easily opened, minimized(and moved around as Facebook messenger-like bubbles) and resized within any app, MS Office included.
Heck, it even works within games. I'm posting this while playing boom beach on my Galaxy Note and I'm gonna make a screenshot in case you want proof. Works flawlessly!
Pretty sure Microsoft was lauded for Surface features Apple introduced in the iPad years before that... But as usual, silly whining (i.e. "computer platform whining") is selective.
FWIW: I'm not sure if app slicing is the reason but app sync to iTunes no longer possible with iOS 9 devices and the latest iTunes. I even opened a Radar on Apple's Bug Reporter which was closed with the comment "Apps are no longer transferred from iOS 9 devices.".
Following the 15 pages of "The Surface is a business tool and the iPad is a toy" compels me to respond. We use both Surfaces and iPads at a mining company. A Surface 2/3 will NOT run any of the Windows mining software we use (Minesite, Vulcan). It is simply not powerful enough. Sure, it will run AutoCAD, but not a single AC user in our company wants to work on AC files on a 10" tablet. All it is really good for is for taking a Cad drawing to a remote location for review. The same thing can be accomplished on an iPad with the AC app. What the Surfaces ARE good at is for running smaller web apps and Office. We have several databases that we also update directly with the Surfaces. Again, any of these tasks can be completed on an iPad, short of updating an Access database (no Access app for iPad).
As for iPad, we mostly give them to managers and execs who are travelling a lot. They get their email just fine. They can work on Word/Excel/PP docs via Citrix or the iOS apps. They can Facetime with our corporate iPhone users for instant face-to-face conferences. They have the Go-To-Meeting app so they can join meetings on the road. We have the Citrix app installed so they can access the network and work in our ERP (SAP). They have the MS RDP client installed so they can access their work computer if they want (Most don't bother and use Citrix and the Office apps).They are very simple to use and require little setup (other than logging into the apps). Just because it isn't a full-fledged desktop does not mean that it isn't a good, mobile business tool. Again, only a brain-dead tech who cannot get past working for Best Buy thinks otherwise.
Speaking both as an iDevice user and Apple shareholder, the thing I dislike the most about Cook is his willingness to forgo future customers in order to boost quarterly profit. I much rather have a CEO that plans for the future than make a quick buck and just count on core-users in the future.
TouchID should be on all iDevices after iPhone 5s, NFC/Apple Pay should be available to all TouchID units. RAM and storage should have doubled with iPhone 6. Free iCloud and paid iCloud should have been way bigger. Battery should be bigger so they still lasts a day after a few years. All these steps would tie users into the ecosystem more retain them as future customers.
I upgrade often but I also want the person buying my used iDevices to have a good experience with older hardware so they would continue to use Apple services.
Would you be able to use a Safari Content Blocker to create a "text reflow" extension? Basically act like Opera Mobile for Android to specify to websites an artificial width of the iOS device, forcing the page to display words in shorter columns and bigger font?
"OS X Yosemite famously was the first version of OS X to have a public beta"
The first version of OS X to have a public beta was the original Public Beta release that predated 10.0. It came after the last developer preview and people had to pay $50 for it.
"Searching through mail is also much better as well. Previously it would just show you every message that corresponded to the keywords you entered. The search now gives you a list of thread topics that match, and if those aren't sufficient you then have the option to use the older individual message view." I have an iphone 5s i have to use for work. I am actually really frustrated by the new mail search, it worked to my taste before, it brought up what you searched for..... now it brings up a bunch of thread topics, i actually find this useless and have to wait for it to load the individual message view. Since my primary use for this phone beyond being a phone, is email and messaging, this is BS and makes me want to roll back to 8. Vertical keyboard letter spacing has also become larger and now takes getting used to, i find it harder.
I knew this would turn into a Win vs. Apple thing. I don't understand why people are so vehement when it comes to this particular "debate." I use these machines on a regular (nearly daily) basis:
The point in listing my hardware isn't to brag (nothing I have is TOP of the line) -- it's to point out that every platform, every OS and every device has a place. Just use what you want to use, and if you've never used something, broaden your horizons and try it. Just have fun with technology, be productive in whatever way you need. I enjoy all technology -- so lighten up people. Sheesh.
Gaming rig - runs Windows 10. DAW and Video Editing system - Mac (OS X). Media Server - Linux Raspberry Pi - Screwing around with different OS's Nexus 7 (2012) - Used it until the internal SSD started going south, a known problem iPod Touch - iTunes (all my music) iPad Air 2 - Productivity AND fun stuff :-P Samsung Galaxy S4 - phone
4x4 Folders, that is the only change that I am happy happened. Rest of the stuff I could care less about, well, ok, the two finger keyboard slider is neat.
Don't see why it couldn't be a 6x5 Folder though, there's plenty of space there...
The ads have arrived — and not just in the articles, but ultra-intrusive ads in the article list. Thank you Apple, you made the decision for me kg lot shelling out another £600 ever on your devices. I switched back to Guardian.app and don't bother with other news sources.
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ama3654 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
" In my view, the addition of multitasking just puts the iPad experience even farther ahead of other tablets. Obviously Windows has a similar implementation, but the unfortunate truth is that the Windows tablet market is almost non-existent at this point outside of the Surface lineup"I wonder why Samsung TouchWiz was not mentioned there as it has a much better multitasking multi-split implementation together with the S-Pen, and Samsung tablets represent a majority of Android tablets.
Morawka - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The windows tablet market is the surface market. Surface is a billion dollar a year business now, and apple obviously is taking it personal because surface was able to grab so much attention. It is a huge threat to iPad, because of it's versatility. It makes iPad's look like $600 facebook/email machines when you have competitors running full blow photoshop and illustrator in a similar form factor. Display out, USB drive support, SD Camera Card Support, A File System so people can download and move around files between any machine, these are all things iOS can't do in it's current form, meanwhile android and windows can and will take all the prosumer market.Think of what it will look like in 5-6 years with intel core i7's are running at 5w TDP and can do without a fan. Apple devices are about to hit a brick wall in performance improvements because new nodes are 2-3 years away. I would say that this is the last 90% performance gain year over year generation claims. Apple so far has been lucky and has been getting a new node every year for the past 3 years.
next year ipads/iphones will maybe get 10-15% gains in Cpu/gpu unless they make the silicon really big which has lower yields. meanwhile intel surface will have skylake and kabylake and Nvidia might be able to do something incredible once it finally gets access to 16nm FF on their 5w K lineup
jmnugent - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
It's humorous how you believe Chip/Hardware advancements will benefit only 1 company (Microsoft). As if Apple,.. a company with such a respected history of hardware-design and innovation.. will just let itself fall behind on Chip-design. Hilarious.kspirit - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
They'll still use iOS on the iPad and not OSX so... yeah, Microsoft wins out on usability. Unless Apple outs a full-on laptop replacement. So until then your comment makes no sense.Matthmaroo - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Man you have totally missed his point.Chip design and os choice are totally different
OCedHrt - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Considering that OS X runs on x86 and iOS doesn't, chip design and os chioce are not totally different. Of course they can port iOS to x86, but they have their work cut out for them.JeremyInNZ - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
porting iOS to x86 is simple. considering both OSX and iOS run on Darwin. In fact I suspect the iOS simulator that comes with XCode is running natively on x86.[email protected] - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link
Trust me, it's not simple nor efficient to emulate from risc To cisc or likewise.Not happening.period.
Kalpesh78 - Friday, September 25, 2015 - link
As usual, Apple will be late to that party as well.xype - Saturday, September 26, 2015 - link
If you think Apple doesn’t have iOS compiling and running on x86 I have a bridge to sell you. Big, red one, in San Francisco.You should read up on OS X, its transition to x86 and where iOS came from.
V900 - Friday, October 30, 2015 - link
Give it up. This guy clearly doesn't know much about neither chip nor software architecture, judging from his comments about RISC and CISC.He doesn't realize that modern CPUs, whether i7 or A8, use features from both worlds, and that porting OS X/iOS therefore is relatively easy.
krutou - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
No they are not. Hence Windows RT for ARM.Gigaplex - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
Windows RT on ARM is proof that a company could port the OS to a different chip if they wanted to. Apple could easily port iOS to x86 if they needed to. They probably have an internal port already, I think their iOS "emulators" actually run as x86.aglyport - Monday, September 28, 2015 - link
in windows parlance, yesthey are somewhat related
osxandwindows - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Apps wood not rundamianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Would?rangerdavid - Tuesday, September 22, 2015 - link
Apps wood is from a rare and beautiful tree.melgross - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Yeah, and not using a Desktop OS is why iPads are so much more popular in business and government. No dealing with typical Windows malware and viruses, no dealing with the many borked updates...damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
How many iPads have been trashed by updates? Quite a few. How many businesses, that use a WSUS server and test the updates, have been trashed? Not that many.theuglyman0war - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Not acknowledging my substantial investment in highend desktop graphic applications ( a market that has been working with a tablet form factor long before there was a tablet market ) cements Surface's popularity and free's an army of artists from Wacom's oppressive pricing. ( who needs a pen? I guess Aplle decided market share proves that they do. Now make an Ipad that will run Zbrush and Maya )Speedfriend - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
@melgross I have recently seen numerous tablets being used by businesses (restaurants, delivery companies) that were clearly no-name Android tablets designed for that specific tasks. Why would a corporate that needs a tablet for a single task buy a $500 iPad when they can get a $200 Android?iPad is now caught in the middle between cheap single task Androids and multi-task windowns 2-in-1s. Our CEO is obsessed with Apple products but we have gone Windows tablets and it looks like we are going to go full surface range soon (3 and Pros). Why, because an iPad is too limited even as something you just take to meetings with you.
FunBunny2 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
-- a respected history of hardware-design and innovation..really, really now? Apple has always bought their silicon, 99.44% is off-the-shelf. Yeah, I know, the fanbois brag that the Ax chips are somehow blessed by Apple. Fact is: Apple only tweaked around the edges, using industry standard silicon design tools, a bit of cache added here and there. Just look at the BoM from any of the usual teardown sites. You'll see the fact: it's always other people's parts.
osxandwindows - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
So why is apple not using 8core chips ha?Intervenator - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I hope that post was sarcastic or it would really be funny.damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
...Because that would be too far a jump. Apple wants to MILK its customers for everything then can hence the small updates. Someone like Nokia committed a mortal sin as they released a 41Mp (36+5mp) camera phone while others are still messing with 20Mp.All about the cash.
P.s. Android NEEDS more cores as it runs like a bag of crap.
calden - Monday, September 28, 2015 - link
Actually Android runs just as smooth as iOS. The problem is skinned, custom versions of Android, i.e. TouchWiz. When I replaced TouchWiz with CM 12.1 on my Note 4, the system took up only 580MB, where as TouchWiz took up more than 1.5GB before a single app was even installed. I also installed the launcher SmartLauncher 3, the whole experience is lightning fast. Even when running multiple apps in the background, something iOS still can't do. I think it is ridiculous that a modern OS in 2015 cannot do something as simple as stream a movie to your TV and still allow you to use the device, iOS simply pauses, even disconnects the stream in some cases if you want to do something as simple as look up an actors name in IMDB. With my Android tablet I can not only stream a film to my TV but play a game like Modern Combat 5 at the same time. As a programmer I need to run a terminal app to stay connected to my firms server during trading hours as I have monitoring tools. IOS has terminal apps as well but I can't run them them in the background the entire day without iOS terminating it's connections. Again, I find this to be absolutely ridiculous as who wants to stare at a terminal the entire day, especially when I need access to my tablet or phone to do other tasks. Apple adding Pro behind the iPad doesn't automatically make it a pro device. IOS still has one of the worst document, file management systems on the market today. My Nokia 9500 from 2004 is light years better than what iOS provides, apps should never be allowed to manage their own files. Default apps, I still can't change the default apps in iOS, why? I have no use for Apple's included apps, if I had the choice I would immediately delete them from the system, as such I need the ability to select my own browser, email client, messenger, media player, etc. as the default applications. I find this tactic of not being able to select my own default apps in iOS highly anti-competitive. The EU went after Microsoft for including Internet Explorer in XP, even though the user had the option of choosing another browser as their default. Why hasn't Apple be scrutinized about this?calden - Monday, September 28, 2015 - link
I'm aware of those few audio and GPS apps that can run in the background in IOS, but this is a far cry than allowing any app that the user needs in the background. No, this has nothing to do with battery life, if it is than Apple really needs to rewrite iOS. My BlackBerry Passport, running three apps in the background, easily lasts the entire day on a single charge, actually it lasts a day and a half with moderate to heavy use. Android has the ability to select how many apps are allowed to run in the background, you can even set it to 1. So if people feel like their apps are eating up their battery they can control the amount of running apps. Apple could easily implement such a feature, they don't though, which means they have all the control, they dictate how the user uses their own devices. iOS is a wolf in sheep's clothing, looks pretty, inviting but once you start to do real work you encounter a brick wall a 20 stories high. How many times have you iOS users logged into iCloud on your device, I had to do it over 25 times to cover every app. Why, why do I need to log in even twice, once should be enough, in Android upon setting up my Google user that was it, from that point on every app that could communicate with Google Drive would automatically be setup. This is because the apps talk to the system at the lowest level, iOS requires spaghetti API's, a spiderweb of tunnels trying to pass info to each other. The Share TO function in iOS works only if the app dveloper has created a share profile. Why can't the system just dynamically create these Share To lists like Android 5.1.2, SailFish 2.0, Windows Mobile 10, BlackBerry OS 10.3.2 by looking for every compatible app that is installed and than listing. No, instead iOS uses this half ass API system. What about mult-user support, will never happen in iOS because of the way it handles files. To support multi-users in iOS each user would have to reinstall each app over again to distinguish each users. They could embed the users info in the file's metadata so the app can distinguish each user but that is just hacky at best would and how would these modified files react when used on other systems. IOS is definitely not a pro system and anyone thinking differently is either lying to themselves to protect their beloved Apple brand, aren't professionals themselves so don't reall understand the meaning or are working around these limitations, fighting the system at every point to get their work done which falls in line with point one, their lying to themselves.I'm not saying that iOS devices don't have their uses, they do. They make great consumer devices for media consumption, social media, gaming, drawing and other artistic apps, music and music creation, etc. However as a productivity tool these devices are highly limited and can't compete with the likes of a Surface Pro 3 or even Surface 3. Even an Android tablet would be a better option. With my Nexus 9 I can log into the LDAP and gain access to all my allowed users NAS storage, mount it as a local asset. Set file extensions to open up certain apps, etc. Trying to do this in iOS is like trying to put a round peg into a square one. You can do it with a bit of force but your going against it's designed purpose. Apple needs to completely rewrite iOS, combine many functions found in OSX before I would ever consider using another mobile device from Apple.
mikhapop - Monday, September 28, 2015 - link
you really nailed it, i am a web developer and i often fail to tell my friends how the ios is very limiting for even the basic stuff (my basic stuff). android is far better as far as the os go. Now i am using a surface pro 3 and never looked back, very good in meetings, and it is now my main machine for 98% of my work.blackcrayon - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Sounds like you know close to nothing about the Ax chips. They are custom Apple designs, and they also optimize their OS for them. I bet you thought Intrinsity and PA Semi were just marketing facades that didn't actually do anything before Apple acquired them years ago, right?KoolAidMan1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Apple spent billions acquiring semiconductor companies and is one of the few companies along with Qualcomm that has a license to make ARM chips. Anand himself highlighted this while showing that Apple's custom designs matched or exceeded Intel's Bay Trail.You really think their custom designs are something to be dismissed just because of the name on the package? The fanboy is strong in your posts
melgross - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
How little people know. The Arm chip was due to Apple. They needed a chip for the Newton, the first PDA, a term Apple invented, by the way. They looked around, and went to acorn. The convinced them, and VSI to get together on a mobile version of Acorn's AM chip used in British school computers. Apple contributed specs, firmware and microcode.
Apple was also responsible for the Power PC chip, getting Motorola and IBM together on that, also supplying specs, firmware and microcode.
They design their highly rated A series of chips.
They've also designed their own system chips for the Power PC.
So yeah, it's easy to diss Apple when you try hard, and don't know much.
niva - Monday, September 28, 2015 - link
Yes, and Global Warming is due to the declining number of pirates.Morawka - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Microsoft uses intel, intel fab's their own chips.. apple designs chips and has a contractor fab them. Intel advances lithography much faster than these contractor fabs. it is known. ask nvidia and amd how long their contractor has made them stay on the same node. 4 yearsplus moores law is coming to a end for both intel and tsmc/samsung contractors. 3d chip design is the future
danbob999 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
actually, I would say that Intel is advancing at the same speed as the competition... only they are a little bit ahead.Jumangi - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
A little? AMD is still stuck at 32/28nm processes.calden - Monday, September 28, 2015 - link
Their entire CPU line up for 2016 will be based on 14nm.Morawka - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
no intel is way ahead because their lithography can make chips of all sizes these contractor fabs (TSMC, Samsung) fall apart when the chip gets bigger than 130mm. That's why you dont see Nvidia and AMD using 20nm or even 16nm atm. TSMC just cant make chips that big without destroying yields. their process is nowhere near as advanced as intel's..Unfortunately for intel, we are in a era where competitors have the technology to disect and sand down Chips layers away to steal transistor designs. Chipworks will gladly do this for samusng/tsmc and spill all of intel's secrets for $.
If i were intel, i'd be suing the hell out of both of them. because intel created fin fet.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/05/18/h...
Strunf - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Transistor designs are not a very big secret, even Intel publishes pictures of their new advancements... and if you look there's plenty of scientific papers about it, the secret is how to make them in big scale and with good yields, and this is the most complex part. The big secrets are not in the processors themselves they are in the factories and computers there, that's why companies don't allow journalists in so easily or if they do it's on a very well defined program to not show too much.PacificToast - Saturday, September 19, 2015 - link
Trade secret and patent are two very different things. Actually yielding out devices is the hard part, and the time/resources to R&D them are huge. Fin-fet is not owned by intel. There's a huge amount of misinformation in these comments. (Source: Employee of one of the three companies mention in parent).Jumangi - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Did you actually read the post? Cause your response says otherwise. He stated plain facts about a lack of access to new mfg node processes that have greatly benefited their chips over the last few years.damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
I was under the impression that Apple doesn't make chips.krutou - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
iOS is optimized for ARM architecture, and OS X isn't touch optimized. Rewriting iOS for x86 or integrating touch into OS X is a multi-year challenge.FunBunny2 - Sunday, September 20, 2015 - link
-- Rewriting iOS for x86 or integrating touch into OS X is a multi-year challenge.IOS and OSx are both BSD where it matters, and it's optimized for a good C compiler.
Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
It's not that simple.dargonesti - Monday, March 7, 2016 - link
Loll, Apple? Innovation??"It's revolutionnary! It's 0.1 mm thinner and weights 5 grams lesss!" xD
Apple's only good at selling shiny things that costs a lot
Chaser - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Surface- "is a huge threat to iPad, because of it's versatility." Maybe in your open, technical view of things but most Apple users would never dream of changing ecosystems. They lose significant functionality doing so as they are comfortable with Apple and its applications such as Safari, iMessage, iTunes etc. Apple people want something that works for them in the most simplistic way, and that is consistent. Going Windows for them is a bottomless pit of turmoil to them. So compare TDP, nodes, whatever, the Apple faithful could care less.Joe_H - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"Maybe in your open, technical view of things but most Apple users would never dream of changing ecosystems. They lose significant functionality doing so as they are comfortable with Apple and its applications such as Safari, iMessage, iTunes etc."More BS from the clueless Apple faithful. Please explain to me how anyone would lose functionality going from a toy like the iPad to a full PC like the Surface? The Surface hardware not only has far greater functionality than the iPad, and Windows has far more functionality than iOS.
"Apple people want something that works for them in the most simplistic way, and that is consistent. Going Windows for them is a bottomless pit of turmoil to them. "
The Apple people are stupid sheep who can't think for themselves, and I hate to break it to you, but Apple consumers are a very small market compared to the overall PC and tablet market. Even in phones they are a small minority. So who gives a damn what they thing.
As for Windows being a bottomless pit of turmoil, spoken like an Apple shill who is so far up Apple's backside, he can't even see daylight. Windows 10 works simply and beautifully on a Surface Pro 3, and there is no turmoil to be found anywhere. So your argument is garbage.
solipsism - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Do you honestly expect anyone to take your comments seriously when you write stuff like "… a toy like the iPad to a full PC like the Surface"? You then include terms like "Apple faithful," "Apple shill," "so far up APple's backside," but call an actual, reasonable argument regarding pros and cons of utility as garbage. IF you had a point somewhere you completely lost it with excessive anti-Apple position that never even attempted to make an objective comment.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
There was no "reasoned argument", it was just a claim that somehow switching from iOS to Windows would "lose functionality". That's ludicrous. This so-called "reasoned argument" you mentioned even claimed people would rather use iOS Safari than be on Windows where you can run REAL Firefox, IE, Edge, Chrome... I don't care how faithful you may be to Apple, PLEASE tell me you'd rather use a full real web browser of your choice than mobile Safari! :-OHammerStrike - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The issue for me is that the notable feature on the Surface is the form factor, but the benefit of the form factor is ease of use, media consumption and mobility, and in all those area's the iPad is a superior device - it's lighter, has a much longer batter life and has hundreds of thousands of apps that are natively designed for a touch interface. The Surface is obviously the superior productivity device, but I just don't see anyone really cranking out spreadsheets, photoshop, etc on it in a mobile, touch form factor. At a minimum you probably want to be at a desk, if not docked into a full desktop environment - if that's the case there's no benefit to the form factor.For me, my iPad is my preferred device to check email, browse the web, read, play games, stream movies/music, etc. From the time I have spent with the Surface I can say that while I can do some of those things on it, it's not a preferred format to do it - works in a pinch, but would prefer other form factors. The navigation and usage of native iOS apps is superior to Win8/10 conterparts (when there are even direct comparables), plus its just a lot more comfortable device to hold for several hours.
Morawka - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
your still talking about the 13" ipad pro man? thats what we are comparing here. It's huge, must be held with 2 hands, and is heavy without a kickstand. to do any extensive typing, your gonna need a tablet stand, and then you cant use touch. must have keyboard.its just to big (and heavy) to do what your typical use case is on a ipad. sure it's cool for artist, but it's gonna slide around on the table when your drawing unless you have it on some sort of stand.
ws3 - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
The iPad Pro is the same weight as the original iPad, which I have and use without issue.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
"and is heavy without a kickstand"It weighs 1.57 pounds. that's only 0.07 more pounds than the iPad 1 or 2. Thats not heavy.
damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Sorry but you're miss-informed. The MD here has a Surface Pro 3. The QA guy has one. The H.R. lady has a Pro 2. The sales guys have a mix and I use an i3 SP3 at home. if you add the dock you've an instant desktop replacement....and yes these guys do heavy Excel work.
Last year, while waiting in an airport, I use my then pro 2 to launch a VM that holds all my design stuff. I took a picture with my 1020, threw it into the VM, messed around with the picture and uploaded. That VM held my video editing software etc. Why compromise with an ipad? The weight difference is hardly an issue.
P.s. I also own an Air 2, which I like, but it really is a toy and my fav app is SimCity Builit :)
robinthakur - Thursday, October 1, 2015 - link
I agree in that while the Suface 3 Pro is my primary deive, it could really just be any laptop (or Macbook) because I just use it at my desk, and I never use it in tablet mode because it gets quite hot and noisy. Likewise it's not stable enough to use in laptop replacement mode (due to the kickstand design) pretty much anywhere but a flat surface like on the tube, bus etc.Klug4Pres - Monday, October 5, 2015 - link
"For me, my iPad is my preferred device to check email, browse the web, read, play games, stream movies/music, etc. "Maybe I haven't tweaked the setup enough, but I find my wife's iPad very frustrating to use for web browsing. 90% of the time, it is great, but then I try to do something simple like fill in a web form and suddenly it is completely unusable. I cannot scroll text within form boxes, I cannot move the cursor in a reasnable way for editing, there are no arrow keys, hover text hides what I am writing, etc.
Say what you like about Windows and laptops, and there is lots wrong with them, but as productivity devices they just provide a more efficient experience. Then there is Flash content, handling certain file types, dealing with files in general.
I also prefer not having to hold the device I am using, and clamshells are just better ergonomically for that.
Vichy_C - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"a toy like the iPad"That "toy" has more graphical and computational power than ANY Surface devices available. It also has better battery life, better accessories (Apple Pencil) and better hardware design.
kspirit - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
what.Vichy_C - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Did I misspell something? I said the iPad Pro is better than the surface graphically, computationally, aesthetically, and accessorily. It's not a "toy" by any stretch of the imagination.xenol - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Sure the iPad Pro is better than the Surface. It was running a Tegra 3 which was woefully underpowered for the device to begin with.Now the Surface 3, that might be a toss up because it depends on what metric Apple used when claiming A9X is "faster than 80% of portable PCs shipped". For all I know, they were comparing it with all the Atom based tablets and convertibles and by "faster", maybe like 5%.
centhar - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
It is not and saying that is rather silly.PsychoPif - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
You need to get your fact straight. Most Surface devices have a faster processor than the iPad Pro.osxandwindows - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
How do you know that?moderntheorist - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"More graphical and computational power than ANY Surface devices available" you are joking right? That ARM architecture is nowhere near as powerful as an Intel i7, when an iPad can do something like this we'll talk: http://www.jcallaghan.com/wp-content/uploads/daisy...Vichy_C - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
They already can. Using Apple AirPlay you can use alternate displays. That is the most useless thing I've ever seen a tablet do. My desktop is for multiple displays, not my tablet. My tablet is for portability and power. All these features don't mean jack with the market share Microsoft has, anyway. According to Geekbench, the highest scoring multicore Surface 3 device has an i7 4650U and scores less than 2000 points above the Air 2. If the Pro is 90% faster than the air then suddenly the pro is about 1500 points ahead of the fastest surface. Apple even said themselves that is'd going to be faster than 80% of portable PCs shipped in the last 12 months.xenol - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The Surface 3 has an Intel Atom.And if that's what Apple is using as their benchmark... roflcopter. Geek Bench is not an apples to apples comparison when you're comparing:
1. Two different processor architectures
2. A mobile, stripped down OS vs. a fully functional OS.
blackcrayon - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
A fully functional OS that needs first party anti-malware and weekly updates to keep it from being overrun with toolbars... There are some advantages to being "stripped down".damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Yet I've had people ask me to remove stuff from their iPad as well as browser re-directs. Easy stuff but still...damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
P.s. Do you remember the iOS release, the other year. that had to have THREE updates to fix things?Smudgeous - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
You should really try verifying Apple's previous claims before assuming they're reflected in Geekbench. Apple claimed the IPad Air 2 had 40% faster CPU performance and 150% faster GPU performance than the previous IPad Air. However, their single core Geekbench results only showed a 23.24% increase. So going by the same Geekbench scaling factor, their new 80% faster claim would result in something around a 46.5% higher single core Geekbench score than the Air 2, or roughly a 2650. That would mean that the now-15-month-old Surface Pro 3 with the dual core i7 4650U is 22.64% faster. If this is accurate, that would put the A9X chip at 10% slower than the Core M 5y71 in the new Macbook, which is interesting as they're both 4.5w TDP processors.Now, the multicore score did show a 72.63% increase, but only because it added a third core. Similarly, the Mediatek octacore MT6795 outperformed the IPad Air 2's multicore score, despite having a single core score less than half as high. Also, as the number of cores remains the same as the Air 2, the multicore score will not result in the same kind of scaling.
defferoo - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
i would think that their claims are based on the multi-core score as they never claimed the "single-core performance increased by 40%". So assuming their claims of an 80% faster CPU are applied to the multi-core score, you'd get a score around 8000, which is pretty insane for a tablet. If you were to compare that to a Mac, you'd find that it slightly beats out the current high-end rMBP 13 inch. yes, the rMBP only has 2 cores, but it's also 28W (probably due to the high clock speed) versus the ~5-7W A9X.To be honest, I don't think they could have achieved an 80% improvement in speed without either doing some serious frequency scaling (which would greatly increase power consumption) or adding a 4th core. Which is why my guess is that in addition to architectural improvements, they slightly increased the clock speed of each core and added a 4th core to get the speed increases that they wanted. What is most interesting to me is the prospect that a single A9X core may be similar in performance/watt to Intel's Core CPUs.
damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
...Which are VERY cheap Atoms.danbob999 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I doubt the A9x is a faster CPU than the Core i5 in the surface...blackcrayon - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Me too. I wouldn't be surprised if the A9X had better graphics though. The iPad Pro certain has a much better screen.buevaping - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
The A8X has better graphics than standard mobile i5 already. Run GFX Bench.osxandwindows - Sunday, September 20, 2015 - link
a8x graphics beet intel hd on gaming, Hell anything beets intel hd in gamingnerd1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Okay okay... my playstation 4 has more graphical power than the iPad so it can be very useful for productive tasks right?osxandwindows - Sunday, September 20, 2015 - link
lol ps4 for pro dream onSc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Actually a playstation 4 WOULD be useful for productive tasks if productive software was released for it. Consoles are basically appliance computers after all.damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
When you say 'Surface' do you mean The Surface RT, Surface 2 and Surface 3? Fair enough. The next version of the 'Surface' might feature Core m which should be right on the cash for beating, just, this new ipad Pro.Don't even suggest that it's anywhere near the i5 let alone the i7
centhar - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
It's called a "toy" because all that "power" it has is relegated the iPad to just being a consumption device. The OS is not developed enough to make it a serious creation tool.ws3 - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
"The OS is not developed enough to make it a serious creation tool."That is not true at all. There is no OS-dependent reason why an equivalent pretty much any desktop software could not run on a high end iPad like the iPad Pro. Desktop applications themselves do not rely on the user having full access to the file system. Of course user interaction would have to be redone to compensate for the lack of a mouse, but the power and OS services required to get the work done are there.
centhar - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
One issue here, the lack of a file system. It makes organization, copying, managing, importing and exporting of data impossible in iOS. Which is needed for apps to function for the user like their desktop bretheren.ws3 - Saturday, September 19, 2015 - link
There is a file system, of course. But it is not exposed to the user.Apple's idea is that manual organization of the file system is an obsolete concept for most users. iOS apps allow you to import and export files without having direct file system access. Of course, due to the lack of direct file system access, the user has much less control over exactly how his files are organized, and must rely upon app-internal organization and cloud services to manage files.
The claim being made by Apple haters is that full user access to the file system is absolutely necessary. The claim being made by Apple is that full user access to the file system is more complexity than most users need or are able to handle, and that in the long run it will be seen as no more necessary than the manual layout of data in main memory -- something that was seen as critically important in the early days of computing, but which now, of course, is completely irrelevant to everyone except people writing operating systems.
It remains to be seen who is correct. I suspect Apple is, but we'll have to wait a while to find out.
osxandwindows - Sunday, September 20, 2015 - link
How about file managers for iOS, I use them all the timeSc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Why is it that people were creating stuff on primitive operating systems back in the 90's with far less power available than the iPad, yet for some reason you think that the iPad's os isn't developed enough and it can't be used for productivity. This is someone that used to use Mac OS7/8/9 back in the day and did a lot of producing on those systems, which were limited to cooperative multitasking.osxandwindows - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Well I don't have to buy a new device every 3 yearswylie102 - Monday, September 21, 2015 - link
"The Apple people are stupid sheep who can't think for themselves, and I hate to break it to you, but Apple consumers are a very small market compared to the overall PC and tablet market."A sheep is someone who follows the crowd, yet you state in your next sentence that the crowd is overwhelmingly using windows.
So which is it? You can't have it both ways.
robinthakur - Thursday, October 1, 2015 - link
I use a MS Surface Pro 3 and own an iPad Air 2 and I think the gap has narrowed in terms of what the ipad can't do (especially with a keyboard like the optional surface pro 3 keyboard) now that MS Office Web Apps run on them which is 90% of what the majority of working people need it to do. Now, obviously the Surface can do far more as a full blown Windows machine, and the software for it generally exists already. I as a power user and developer enjoy having that much control of full Windows and I need it. However it also has the historic disadvantages of running full windows which made people stop using it i.e. overheating, updates, security problems etc and complexity. For the average user who has been using an iPad in meetings for the last 5 years, Surface as an option really wasn't good enough as it was underpowered, battery poor, too small and too expensive. They have now changed to work with iPad and are used to working around some of the limitations and adapting their workflows.The reality is that the majority of users can get by with an iPad running a modern iOS with the appropriate apps unless they are doing something specialised like Visio, Photoshop or Maya or whatever. Speaking to the influencers and people with the power in business to change this through my job, the general consensus is that while they do like the Surface 3, and can see why having mobile Windows devices operating with a Windows enterprise stack makes things like SharePoint, and other enterprise MS software a much easier proposition, the reality is that MS has also made all it's software far more iPad friendly because the frightening alternative was people moving away from using software that didn't work on the iPad completely. We have zero choice on making software compatible with iPad because that's what people are using, period, and this can't change overnight. Apple has not properly targeted the corporate market other than maiking the devices basically compatible with things like VPN, Active Sync etc. because they haven't had any competition, but it wouldn't surprise me if they started taking it a bit more seriously.
I think MS don't help themselves by changing their minds and approach constantly on things like RT, Windows Apps and others. Businesses are only now starting to gain confidence that they are serious about the Surface program, and who is to say they won't decide to can it next year if the iPad Pro is a success and they want to focus on software and farm it out to Dell/Hp etc?
So nobody doubts that the Surface Pro 3 is a more capable device because it just is, but is it an appropriate device in an App centric world where most enterprise software can be delivered through a thin, light, cool-running iPad with Mobile Safari as a tier 1 browser via Office 365?
lilmoe - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"most Apple users would never dream of changing ecosystems"Opinions.... Most have no brand loyalty whatsoever, and will move to the newer "best thing" as claimed by their peers in a heartbeat.
iPads are great consumption devices, even I was suckered into buying one because my dad wanted one (his friend told him it was the best....."rolling eyes"). They are successful in part because of the devices themselves (and the brand), but that's not the major reason why. The more important reason is the *lack* of proper/legitimate competition in the iPad's target market.
Tablets running mobile OSs are NOT a necessity in peoples lives. They're more like a novelty some of us buy for "convenience", and are easily replaced by phablets for most consumers. Those who want one, and are willing to pay, will find the iPad very appealing for its performance, smoothness, and selection of media consumption and companion apps. It's a proven product in that respect, and those who're paying the premium don't want to deal with "other issues".
Android has had lots of trouble getting its performance and framerate game together. Google, and it's utter failure to deliver is at fault. Samsung is NOT a software company, and no matter how good and feature rich their modifications to Android are, lots of people will still find them "clunky" because these modifications were never native to the OS. Google's recent versions of Android are too little, too late. While stock Android is now fast and smooth, it still doesn't stand a chance against Touchwiz in neither features nor usability. Let me say this straight for those who think Touchwix is bad; the absolute majority of consumers HATE stock Android with a passion (tech blogs and XDA are NOT the majority of consumers, not by a long shot). Let me say one more thing if that wasn't offensive enough for stock Android lovers: While I personally believe Android is the king of smartphones (for now), it is the very reason why the non-iPad tablet market is so bad, confusing, cheap, and has no future.
Windows RT (now Windows 10 Mobile, without the desktop) was the absolute best mobile OS ever to be installed on an ARM powered tablet IMHO. But it had a mix of management, timing and media conception problems (and sabotage), resulting in the alienation of both users and devs.
Microsoft are really late to the consumer game, so late it's painful. They shouldn't have settled for firing Sinofsky, and everyone else behind how Windows 8/RT was executed, they should make sure they never find a career in tech.
The Surface Pro is very successful and popular because its intended audience know exactly how capable it is. These guys don't need extensive advertising.
True, it's Android (or rather more accurately, Samsung) on smartphones that forced Apple to reconsider lots of their design decisions with their iPhones. But it's Windows that's forcing them to change the face of iOS on their iPads.
There are 3 major markets for tablets:
1) consumers (dominated by Apple)
2) prosumers (spread among Apple and Microsoft, with some Android users here and there)
3) professionals and content creators (dominated by Microsoft).
Apple's latest updates to iOS and the iPad are primarily for maintaining the second type. Because the first type couldn't give a rat's behind how a productive a tablet is.
nafhan - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Wrong. iPads get used by professionals (in addition to "prosumers") all the time for content creation tasks while on the go like music recording, viewing tablature, reviewing photos with clients, etc. Just because the content creation isn't happening on the tablet doesn't mean it's not getting used as part of a content creation workflow.That said: they are not a professionals primary content creation device. They're a secondary device that gets used when it's not reasonable to use the primary device for some reason.
The Surface is going to fall into the same boat. Someone who does these types of content creation tasks is probably going to want something more powerful than Surface for their regular work. The iPad Pro and the Surface will both be used when the primary device is not available.
Also, you are absolutely correct in that the vast majority of iPads (and computers) sold are as consumption devices. That's why the iPad mini exists!
superflex - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Yikes.A koolaid fight has broken out and everyone is drunk on their brand of OS punch.
You clowns are worse the the GPU fanbois.
Makes reading the comments at AT a waste of time.
Now get back to your respective OS shrines.
lilmoe - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
You're contradicting yourself;"Just because the content creation isn't happening on the tablet doesn't mean it's not getting used as part of a content creation workflow".
That was exactly my point, and the point you emphasized in your last paragraph. iPads (even the lateset "Pro") can never be used for standalone, real professional work. The iPad "Pro" might be good for simple sketching at best... I mean, the new "pencil" doesn't even support hover or palm rejection, nor does the "Pro" run any full blown professional programs.
There's nothing an iPad can do that a Surface can't (provided the mobile app is there). But the Surface can also replace laptops for many consumers, they can be the sole PCs of many prosumers, and they can be the mobile workstations of professionals because they can run the full blown programs their used to. Something iPads can never do.
Android was never a real threat to iPads. However, while Apple isn't worried about the Surface series in particular, the real threat to iPads lies in Windows 10 and Universal Windows Platform.
I can't wait for a Samsung made Wacom Windows 10 tablet with a Core M7.
nafhan - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I'm not contradicting myself.Your argument seems to be that since it could be used as an all around replacement for every computer, professionals are using the Surface that way. My observation is that you are wrong. People who make money doing creative work generally don't have an MS based workflow, at all, and that even if they did, they'd probably still only use the Surface as a primary computer when absolutely necessary. If you're making money at your job and doing creative work, you're going to want a more powerful computer with more storage than the Surface as your main computer.
I have a feeling that you have never worked with any professionals. They don't want Swiss Army knives. They want dedicated tools to get their work done easily and quickly. I'll sort of take that back: they do want the Swiss Army knife device, just as a secondary or tertiary device, not as a primary.
The-J-Man - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
This is changing. Some creatives are moving to Windows-based workflows as there are shifts in the industry, and Surface Pro is significant part of that. Ever since the first Surface Pro came out, the question among creatives is "Can it run Photoshop?" (Yes, it can.) Since that day, I think most creatives realize that iPads are consumption only. If you can have a tablet that is a presentation device that also lets you do actual work on a train or at a coffee shop between meetings, then isn't that better, even if it doesn't have iMessage?Apple has had some missteps lately in the creative world. The garbage can look-alike Mac Pro is selling so poorly that I don't know anyone who owns one. Adobe's Premiere Pro takeover of Final Cut market share is significant and seems to be accelerating. It is getting harder and harder to justify the IT costs of supporting a department of Macs in an otherwise Windows environment, just to get the graphics work done. (Yes, Macs need support. They are not magic.) Most artists are getting used to using Windows through Boot Camp, and Windows 10 is actually a really nice experience.
You are right that it is fairly safe to assume a creative is working on a Mac these days, but devices like Surface Pro are very impressive, even to us creatives. iPad Pro, to me, looks like a Surface Pro without the ability to run any of the apps that I really want to run. Let's face it, Creative Cloud programs like Photoshop and After Effects are where the money is, not those silly ideation apps Adobe keeps trying to push.
Most creatives work on a workstation with a Wacom tablet and multiple monitors for maximum productivity. Given the creative's standard equipment of a primary workstation, a secondary tablet/laptop, and a smartphone, I am guessing a lot of creatives would choose Surface Pro over iPad (Pro or otherwise) as their secondary device.
robinthakur - Thursday, October 1, 2015 - link
Most proper creatives doing it as a job that I know still use Apple, mainly for historic reasons it has to be said (try getting creatives to change tooling!) and the fact that the Surface Pro 3 runs Photoshop avoids the question of how well it runs it. The pen accuracy and pressure sensitivity as well as the display scaling are significant issues which hobble the SP3 to some extent and mean that it can't be used as a dedicated tool. The pen is designed primarily for OneNote, after all.The great unknown is the software for the iPad Pro. If Appl ecan persuade Adobe to release versions of CC and Micrososft to release versions of Office which are compiled for it with pen compatibility, then I can see it doing very well as all the User interface problems of not having a precision input device or keyboard will be solved.
KoolAidMan1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
A Macbook Pro is a much better laptop than the Surface and an iPad is a much better tablet. The value of the Surface is that it combines both. If you want to combine both devices while introducing compromises then its a good option. There's certainly something to be said for having fewer things.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
The pencil supports palm protection dude.Morawka - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
they'll lose imessage and facetime.. they dont care about safari, and everyone can agree that itunes is garbage. you seriously cited itunes as a reason to stay apple? Simplistic device are great and all, but it severely limits how you can improve them 5-10 years down the road without inherently making them more complex (therefore losing the simplicity)they are made of metal and are nice looking. the ui looks like a candy shop. they are successful because the iphone is successful. you think it will stay this way for much longer tho? It remains to be seen, but odds are not in their favor.
apple is pushing everyone to apps, even website developers (by ad blocking). apple is a compartmentalized experience on each device. They created lots of devices that only do a few things (but do them well) and then hope you buy all of them so they make lots of money.
meanwhile competitors with complex systems which allow you to do much more with fewer devices, but has steeper learning curve. do you want to pack 3-4 devices that each do a couple of things good, or 1-2 devices that can do everything.
let the market decide over the next 10 years, but eventually people will wise up and spend less money and pack less gadgets
centhar - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Apple users are the Pakleds of the computer world. "We can make it go, no intelligence is required"Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Windows users are the cybermen of the computer world.Windows user: "We are four million, how many are you?"
Apple User: "We are FOUR"
Windows user: "You will beat us with only FOUR apple users?"
Apple User: "We will beat you with ONE Apple User! You are better than us at only one thing."
Windows user: "What is that?"
Apple User: "You are better at failing."
Shadowmaster625 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The problem is that windows is jsut a horrible OS. It is a sloppy slobbery steamign pile of dung to navigate on a tablet. And it is still very broken and has always been broken and will likely always remain broken. Stuff that should work simpyl doesnt work reliably. Even the windows store sometimes fails to function on my win 8 tablet. Yes, it fails to load the frickin store! Sometimes windows update simply ceases to function. It drains a full battery overnight just sitting in standby. When you open the onscreen keyboard it often covers up the text box that you are typing in. When you close the keyboard it sometimes leaves a huge chunk of your window missing, forcing you to click the minimize and maximize buttons to fix it. There is an endless list of issues like these that no one should want to deal with. I now use my windows tablet STRICTLY for playing videos. Anything else, and I mean ANYTHING, results in complete frustration and a desire to smash the device into pieces. Anyone who says otherwise is simply deluded or not a productive computer user.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Wow. Yeah, really "objective" there. LOLcatinthefurnace - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Yep, these are issues everyone that uses Windows faces, but very few talk about them when Apple is in the discussion. When Apple is the subject, Windows is idealized as a flawless "full OS", and people claim that there is no reason someone would prefer iOS for mobile tasks. Insanity I tell ya.nerd1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I use all three OS (ubuntu, windows and OSX) and I think windows is the best OS for managing a large number of files for productivity tasks.tuxRoller - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
What does this mean? Win handles memory better? That is, give the same amount of ram, you can't open the same number of "files for productivity tasks" on osx/linux?The window managment is better? IN what way?
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I just found it harder to manage a very large number of files in OSX, or windows/file manipulation in general. And I have had a macbook since 2011.tuxRoller - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Again, what do you mean "manage"?For very large file sets a cli is typically going to be faster (and in that case all the desktops assuming powershell is installed) should work fine.
I guess I just find these sorts of complaints nebulous to the point of preference masquerading as some sort of fact. I'm not saying you're not right but windows had never had s particularly sophisticated window manager especially compared to osx/kwin/compiz, and file management should be pretty equivalent on all the DEs.
Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
For large file sets you can also use automator, which is a simple graphical fronted for applescript.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
It is only harder if you don't know the file system that well. I find it incredibly easy to navigate."I just found it harder to manage a very large number of files in OSX"
Well use automator if you need to do something with a large number of files. Personally, I'm annoyed that you need to get third party software in windows to do some basic stuff that's provided first party in OSX. You know, like make .zip files and .pdf's.
robinthakur - Thursday, October 1, 2015 - link
Yer, even though you've been using a macbook since 2011, perhaps you just don't know how to use it efficiently. I have no issue dealing with large amounts of files in OSX which I have to do as a web developer...melgross - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
A billion dollar business. As if that means anything. Microsoft sold possibly as many as 3.5 million Surface tablets in the past 12 months. Apple sold about 55 million. I doubt Apple is worried about Surface.And as for business, it amazes me how little people seem to know. 75% of all tablets in business and government are iPads. Most of the rest are Android tablets used in less critical applications. A handful of Surface tablets can be found, mostly in IT.
Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Bingo. You hit the nail on the head!darkich - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
LOL.On top of all the ridiculous stuff you managed to say, you of course are still blind to the most obvious fact - surface pro is just a horrible TABLET compared to the iPad.
Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
The surface is a billion dollar a year business while apple makes well over 20 billion a year in iPad sales alone. Not to mention app and media sales from Apple's app and iTunes stores.Apple has sold a quarter billion iPads total since the launch in 2010.
bigstrudel - Saturday, October 3, 2015 - link
Lucky for getting a developing a new core from scratch every year?Apple is absolutely smoking Intel, and is literally years ahead of ARM. To be honest, Apple has been FAR ahead of everyone since the A6 Swift Core in the iPhone 5 completely thrashed Krait, only 6 months after Krait released.
Qualcomm went on to use Krait for 4 years. Apple replaced Swift with a brand new, completely custom 64bit Cyclone cores the very next year.
dargonesti - Monday, March 7, 2016 - link
I wasn't expecting that ammount of tech knowledge here o.oI like you
guidryp - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The devil is in the details.I have a Samsung Tablet, and the first thing I did was disable split screen after trying it once.
I expect Apple actually made split screen more usable.
I am also pissed that Samsung apparently abandoned OS upgrades on my tablet (Kitkat from day one, never upgraded).
#myLastAndroidTablet
Scabies - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
#AnandtechDoesntDoHashtagsFlunk - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Your problems are more about Samsung than Android. My Nexus 10 was released in 2012 and is still getting updates (although I think that it's probably getting close to the end).R. Hunt - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
And with each new update, the initial tablet UI it shipped with becomes a faded memory.Deelron - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
His problem is with both, one of the supposed benefits of Android is different hardware choice/options, but if the only choice to get reliable updates is to go with a Nexus device (and of course it depends if the user cares about getting OS updates), then the hardware choice factor is notably damaged.Brandon Chester - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Samsung's implementation is not better in almost any respect. Performance has always been an issue with the SoCs Samsung ships in their tablets, and this applies even more so when you're using multiple applications at once. The interface is also implemented in a very slow and non-obvious manner. Having to touch, hold, and drag apps in order to start multitasking is much slower than any swipe and tap interaction, and there are several options that are accessed by tapping the dot in the middle of the slider between two apps. There's no affordance to tell the user that there's anything hidden there, and it's not something so obvious that there doesn't need to be one.I still give Samsung a lot of credit for working within the constraints they are by adding something that Google should have added at the OS level long ago, but that doesn't change how it's a pretty clunky implementation.
Chaser - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"Performance has always been an issue with the SoCs Samsung ships in their tablets" Since when?Brandon Chester - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
For a long time now. Anything released after the iPad 4 was not competitive with whatever Apple's latest iPad was, and that gap kept growing as Samsung put n-1 SoCs in their tablets. It's the same even now, with the Tab S2 shipping with Exynos 5433 running in AArch32 mode while their best phones get Exynos 7420.ama3654 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
With the new touchwiz, there's no tap hold. Just tap recent and multitask away. They have improved it significantly. I think you should have still mentioned Samsung in the article regarding multi-tasking/split screen as they made it popular in the mobile space. Or otherwise it has been prohibited by Apple.catinthefurnace - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
ama3654,That's like saying that no article should be written by Tesla without mentioning the GM EV-1.
catinthefurnace - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"by Tesla" should have been "about Tesla". No edit button :)edgarbob - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"but the unfortunate truth is that the Windows tablet market is almost non-existent at this point outside of the Surface lineup"How is that different from Apple? The iOS tablet market *is* non-existent outside of the iPad lineup.
bobjones32 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Yeah, the Windows tablet market is almost non-existent outside of the Surface lineup....but good thing the Surface lineup is a massive billion-dollar business and appears to be growing significantly, and all this before Windows 10 was even released. So who knows how many sales were discouraged because of Windows 8 being on there instead.darkich - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
"massive" billion dollar business..get some clue.That "massive" business is only one fifth of the iPad revenues.
Microsoft was actually close to terminating the surface line
robinthakur - Thursday, October 1, 2015 - link
Agreed, before the SP3 started to take off, it sat in the market for a while with a load of "Almost but not quite" reviews and they were actually very close to canning the whole endeavour. I'm glad they didn't because I bought one, which I generally quite like as I'm a geek. Now, of course, things are admittedly looking slightly better for them, but everything is relative, a billion dollars is not that much considering how much they have historically put into the business and lost. They seem to be paving an exit from making the actual hardware by making it a Surface Program IMO to farm out to OEMs.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
The surface industry is very small next to what apple and samsung are doing. A billion dollars sounds like a lot of money until you look at how much money Apple is raking in on the iPad.Bansaku - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Because this is a review of iOS 9 and not a head-to-head.nerd1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
AFAIK samsung put split screen multitasking on ALL their devices, since galaxy s3 or something.Devo2007 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Oh wow! A Day 1 in-depth review of an Apple product.... Why am I not surprised?(not like we'll see that from Marshmallow. ;p
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
On the contrary, we'd love to do a day one review. However Google's rollout system isn't quite as accommodating, which makes it harder to get something out right away.Brandon Chester - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Google needs to handle their beta process better. The final Android M preview still doesn't have Now on Tap. There's no point in trying to review an OS for day one when major features are missing.A5 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
What possible reason is there to restrict Content Blockers to the ARMv8 ISA? I can't imagine that the iPhone 5 and iPad 4 don't have the juice to run a frickin' ad blocker.danbob999 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
greeddmunsie - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The iPhone 5 and iPad 4 could be fine, but the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S probably has more than enough problems that it was easier for them to draw the line with the new ISA rather than burden developers with having to build and test for two different ISAs just to support a couple of devices.greyhulk - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
It's pretty sad that Apple beat Google to the multitasking (split screen) front. In the past, Android tablets were always condidered to be the "power user tablets" and more capable, despite the smaller selection of apps. And they were built with a more ideal aspect ratio for split screen viewing, but only Samsung bothered to utilize it. Google has no excuse for not having built it into stock Android by now.cknobman - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Apple is trying to copy Windows and the Surface tablet IE "IPad Pro" LOL.A note taking app where you can put in anything for IOS, wow pioneers.
NO OneNote has been doing this for years.
A low power mode when your battery reaches 20%, mind blowing!!
NO Windows phone has been doing this for years with tons of customization options.
dmunsie - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"A note taking app where you can put in anything for IOS, wow pioneers.NO OneNote has been doing this for years."
Yes, clearly Apple needed inspiration from Microsoft for this since the company that brought you the Newton over 20 years ago (which had even better note taking capabilities) couldn't have come up with this on their own.
jimmy$mitty - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The Newton was a PDA, not even the first one really just a clone of the others.For tablets, Microsoft had a spec for a Windows tablet PC long before Apple. It was 2002 when the first Tablet PCs started hitting the shelves.
Apple has never truly been original or innovative. Everyone claims Apple had the first GUI, no Xerox did and Xerox gave the idea to Microsoft and Apple.
Apple is just really good at marketing and because their products are so idiot proof and appeal to the not so tech savvy, Look at how easily even toddlers can use an iPhone/iPad, they sell as the masses are not so tech savvy.
Personally I laugh at people. People think the iPod was the first MP3 player, again there were other superior ones like the Creative Zen Blaster (which Creative also sued Apple for the MP3 player GUI and won) or the Sony Walkman.
As said, Apple is just really good at marketing their product which has a big effect, even if they are not superior products. Most people buy products they know and have heard of.
cbmuir - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Check your facts, Newton was pretty much the first PDA. The British Psion was earlier, but never got much market outside of the UK. Palm, WinCE, etc. came after Newton.The Newton got beat up because of the HW recognition, but after a couple years of development it was pretty darn good.
Swordmaekr - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The PSion was just a pocket organizer with a chiclet keyboard, no touchpad or any capability for graphical user interface. The Newton was first.Chirpie - Friday, September 25, 2015 - link
Someone seems to make the mistake assuming that making devices for the masses is an easy thing. And it's not nice to laugh at people. It makes a person sound arrogant and unlikeable. :-Pkmmatney - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Who really cares who came out with an idea first - what matters is how it's implemented.As an iPad4 owner and a Windows tablet owner, I am pretty disappointed with my Windows tablet (running Windows 10). The Windows store is still crappy, and I've had a lot of Apps crash on me. Even solitaire stopped working on my tablet, and the fix was to install VLC player (which re-installed a few things that a Microsoft update removed to kill solitaire!). I've given up an their Apps, too buggy and missing features. The desktop experience isn't bad, but it really does seem like I'm fighting with it all the time just to do simple things. If that was the only tablet I had, I could live with it, but the iPad just does things so much better and smoother. It's my goto device. If I want to do real work, then a laptop is much better,
lilmoe - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Just curious, which Windows tablet do you have? How much did you pay for it?osxandwindows - Sunday, September 20, 2015 - link
Why not do it with OS X then?Joe_H - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Apple didn't beat anyone. They basically lifted the multi-tasking in iOS straight from Windows 8.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Um no. The multitasking is a lot more like the blackberry playbook. Nice try!R. Hunt - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Google hasn't cared at all about Android tablets for a while.ciaphuas - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
It's nice to see an in-depth and technical articles pointing out that Apple has been scrimping on RAM this entire time. This should silence the ignorant fanboys that Apple "knows best" and IOS is so much more efficent to Android. The fact of the matter is that Apple got away with such low RAM because they don't advertise the amount and that people were just used to their tabs/apps closing due to limited RAM.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I thought the first three years of iOS the RAM amount was okay for the time, mostly because at the time it launched, 128MB actually was a lot of RAM for a mobile device, and there wasn't any thing to compare it to.Since then I've pretty much felt every generation has had half the RAM it ought to have. The ipad 1 should have had 512MB (at least). The 2 should have had 1GB. The Air should have had 2-4, and the Air 2/Pro probably ought to have 4GB+ by this point...
Kvaern2 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Well, you know them Apple price tiers. That would make those devices 2-4 times as expensive ;pThe_Assimilator - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Multitasking, SO INNOVATIVE.Sc0rp - Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - link
Well it had multitasking before. Every device that can do more than one thing at a time has multitasking.ScorpionRaY - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
What about battery life? Does multitasking reduce the hours?Brandon Chester - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
It's impossible to measure properly. I haven't noticed any decrease in battery life but I wouldn't put any confidence in that anecdote even though it's my own.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Presumably the only way it would is just the extra CPU/GPU getting used by the second program. In most cases I'd guess the effect would be very minimal, at least if a program is coded decently, since you're probably not going to be using two programs that use a ton of CPU simultaneously, or one might be sitting more or less idle for the time you're interacting with the other one, that sort of thing.Joe_H - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"" In my view, the addition of multitasking just puts the iPad experience even farther ahead of other tablets. Obviously Windows has a similar implementation, but the unfortunate truth is that the Windows tablet market is almost non-existent at this point outside of the Surface lineup"LOL! What a complete load of BS you pathetic Apple shill. The multi-tasking experience in Windows 10 walks all over the iPad, and the Surface Pro 3 just curb stomps the iPad Pro. Don't even get me started on how Apple completely ripped off the multi-tasking from Microsoft. It's the exact same impementation.
I also find your comment about the Windows tablet market funny, especially considering iPad sales have been declining for many quarters now. I suspect you don't have damn clue what the Windows tablet market is.
ama3654 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I can't believe them saying multitasking is better than Windows tablet and Samsung tablets when the iPad pretty much copied the same thing. SMH really....Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
My take on it was that that comment was really aimed at Android. Obviously multitasking on a real OS like Windows is always going to destroy what these mobile/limited OSes can do, but I took it that the comment was like really just comparing it to Android.Though Android has seemed utterly pointless on tablets ever since Windows 8/Surface hit. iOS has some tablet-style programs that are missing from Windows (even if obviously Windows has far more programs overall) so there's some benefit there, potentially, but Android?
xthetenth - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Yeah, I read that as multitasking between tablet apps, which is somewhat limited in Windows by app selection, which is kind of right and kind of missing the point.osxandwindows - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
better multi tasking then samsungxthetenth - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
No, Apple's multi-tasking isn't exactly literally the same thing as that from Windows 8/RT, it's the implementation from 8/RT but with severe limitations on how you control the split between apps unlike Windows' total freedom as long as each app gets its minimum room, and with some ugly kludges tacked on to hide a painfully wrongheaded initial app UI model.star-affinity - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
”Don't even get me started on how Apple completely ripped off the multi-tasking from Microsoft. It's the exact same implementation.”Then one could argue the Task View in Windows 10 is ripped off from the Exposé feature from OS X 10.3 that came out 2003. I think they keep taking stuff from each other back and forth.
MKy - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
One aspect that would have been interesting to read in the review is that how does IOS9 behave in extremely resource-constrained environments, such as the iPhone 4S and iPad 2. Is it faster/more efficient than IOS8?Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Good/interesting question.So weird to think the iPad 2 seemed all-powerful (for a mobile device) just a few short years ago. :-D
Peichen - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Looking forward to try it out on my new 6S+. I do wish with the bigger RAM Safari would let me cache more sites so I can read them on the train.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Can you use that reading mode? I think you can save stuff to read offline, stores it to flash. That seems like it would be what you want.(I'm not 100% sure about this as I don't really have a use for that mode, but that seems to be what it does.)
Klug4Pres - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Congratulations to the reviewer on finally addressing the RAM situation with some serious analysis - long overdue!iwod - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I am wondering why it still take 60MB for a Twitter Client. Even the Pinterest 35MB is huge in my opinion. Since most of the heavy lifting are done in the OS already. I was expecting these apps to be within 20 - 30MB range.And the people who are complaning about the review are the ones who also complain about the recent Apple Pencil. Whenever we are on the topic of Apple, there are basically two types of people,
Those who don't understand Apple, and those who misunderstand Apple.
Pissedoffyouth - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I still don't know why Whatsapp needs 100mb+ on my phone eitherKepe - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Probably because all the images and videos your buddies send are stored on your device and counted as part of the app's total size. If you're on Android, go to settings -> apps -> Whatsapp and clear Data. A fresh install of Whatsapp is 24MB on my phone.danbob999 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Twitter needs to be 60MB for two reasons:-1MB for the twitter client
-59MB to spy on you
tipoo - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Argh, I didn't know content blockers will only work on ARMv8. Bummer, A5 and A6 need them most.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I gave up on both Google Keep and Apple’s Notes, as in my experience neither syncs reliably.I’ve ended up using Google Docs for notes, as it pretty much does sync fine…weird since it’s also from Google.
“What would have been optimal for RAM would be if Apple had moved to 2GB with A7 to offset the additional memory usage of 64bit applications, and moved to 4GB in the next generation iPads (Air 2, future devices) to accommodate multitasking”
Absolutely! I really thought the iPhone 5s/iPad Air should have shipped with 2GB…for years now I’ve felt Apple’s been shipping virtually every iOS device with half the RAM it should have, and I was utterly stunned when even the iPhone 6 continued shipping with only 1GB.
The original Surface 1 (ARM) has similar specs to the iPad 2 in terms of CPU/GPU, but 4x the RAM, and runs a desktop web browser (and office suit for that matter). It’s VAAAAAAAAAAASTLY more useable than dealing with mobile Safari and “multitasking” as it exists on iOS. This all sounds like a huge upgrade in iOS 9, but still, the limited RAM and way it’s implemented…oh well, it’s still a step forward.
I can see using remote desktop + Safari, or Safari + Mail at the same time on a iPad Pro as being a vastly superior experience to what’s available now on iOS, at least assuming this all works fairly decently.
On my iPad now, I literally half the time just remote in to a Windows 8 system to take advantage of the real multitasking (and file system) as it’s soooo much faster than slooowly loading a program, slowly switching, having the first program have to reload, tabs having to reload constantly, etc., etc., etc.
Regarding the back button issue, I STILL don’t really “get” having a system wide back button in Windows Phone and Android. The way it works isn’t consistent, and I still find it more confusing than just implementing a UI however you want it in your own program. I mean even with a back button that’s still what’s going on, as I’m often unsure (aside from just remembering on a case by case basis) what “back” is going to do at any given time. The back link sounds like it’ll be useful, maybe.
The “Safari view controller” sounds great, fixes some issues I’ve had, and I appreciate that it’s sandboxed from the host program that invoked it, though of course there’s the security \issue that you might not KNOW whether you’re in Safari or in the program proper.
Regarding “app thinning”, I wonder what happens with iTunes? Does iTunes get ALL the resources, and then sync all of them, or do the “thinning” when syncing to a specific device?
And there’s “GPU low/high”…but what happens as we get new GPUs in the future? I mean do “low/high” kind of correspond to specific GPUs? Will there be a “high 2”, etc. down the line?
I wonder too what happens to programs already installed? Do they have to be deleted and redownloaded from the store (or presumably when they get updated) to get “thinned”, and for that matter, what happens when you download something on an iOS device, and it syncs back to iTunes on a PC?
The “on demand resources” thing sounds idiotic. I don’t likes it!
The “bitcode” thing is a nifty idea though (though once again raises questions regarding iTunes).
Hmm…this does mean theoretically the 32GB on the iPad Pro should go a bit further than 32GB under iOS 8…
ninjacut - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"the addition of multitasking just puts the iPad experience even farther ahead of other tablets." how so? I would not make that statement unless have used other tablets to this extent.What iOS 9 is trying to do was well available in Surface RT years ago. Current Windows 10 is way powerful when it comes to productivity, iOS is still a consumption toy. Usual Apple, we are the first bs
HardwareDufus - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Is it me? Or did this Apple article introduce a new font for articles on Anandtech. I found it a little tough to read without adjust the size.Ryan Smith - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
No, we haven't introduced any new fonts. Refresh the site, and if you're still seeing oddities please let me know where and what.Matthmaroo - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I'll save some of you some timeApple = bad - no matter what
Android = amazing no matter what
Tbh I own both and like both differently for different reasons
Matthmaroo - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I have been using android since 1.5 and iOS since 3.0star-affinity - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I find your post ridiculous and without substance, no matter what.jardows2 - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
@star-affinityapparently you have no ability to sense sarcasm, no matter what.
BackInAction - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Still no multi-user support, WTF? Am I expected to buy an iPad for everyone in the family? Ugh!I don't need/want notifications when no one is logged into the device (use your phone if you want personal notifications). I just want per-User storage for settings, saved games, etc.
ws3 - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Yes you are supposed to buys separate iPad for each person who wishes to use it.Norzman5 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"OS X Yosemite famously was the first version of OS X to have a public beta"No it was not. The first public version of OSX was a public beta about 16 years ago. You can find it with a simple google search and on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Public_Beta
tuxRoller - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Hey, they just caught up to Wayland with Presentation (in terms of display latency).http://ppaalanen.blogspot.com/2015/02/weston-repai...
freeskier93 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
The news app has actually been one of my favorite new features, I was surprised at how well the basic RSS feed articles looked. I'm guessing you guys will start to support the app? I noticed Ars just started publishing articles for News.farhadd - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I just tried selecting more than 5 photos in the Photos app and it doesn't let me send them to Mail. Are you sure that limit has been lifted?farhadd - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
I figured out my issue. You still cannot select more than 5 photos from the photos app to send directly to mail, but you can select them and use the "Copy" command, then paste that into a Mail message.andrewaggb - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Personally I find the apps/ecosystem the most important part.I think Android/Apple are pretty much equal on phones. I've gone android because I like google maps/navigation and use google apps with a custom domain. Chrome on android sync's pretty well with desktop chrome etc.
For media tablets I think apple is still way ahead and my ipad's get way more use.
Productivity tablets, I guess depends what you need to be productive. The ipad is thinner, lighter, gets better battery life. I suppose if you just need a web browser and email it's probably fine.... but when I work I average around 20GB of ram in use from apps, tabs, a couple virtual machines etc on my desktop and can get by on 8GB of ram if I shut some stuff down. I have an ultrabook with 8GB that is just useable (core-m & ssd), I could have used a Surface Pro 3 (many friends and co-workers have them) but I wanted an attached keyboard.
I couldn't use an ipad pro for productivity. I could use a Surface Pro 3. At the pace we're going, maybe in 8 years or something IOS will have enough windows features I could use it.
KoolAidMan1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
It isn't a 1:1 comparison between RAM usage on a mobile operating system and a desktop one. There's a lot less overhead we're talking aboutkidbear75 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Do you think so called as "Pro" productivity application has a lot less overhead in mobile operating system than full fledged operating system? Do you expect video, photo or audio editing software has a lot less overhead because it is designed for mobile operating system while the raw video or audio material consumes most of the RAM? What about Android? Could you keep the same claim for Android tablet?Yes, they are with different operating system, one with limited functionality designed for mobile use while the other with less limitation in functionality. I don't think you can justify one has limitation because it is based on mobile operating system when it is named as "Pro". If it is really a limitation, Apply may have chosen OS X instead of iOS.
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Windows 10's surprisingly lean, and 2GB works fine unless you open tens of tabs in browser. And if you do the same 'pro application' you will end up using the same amount of memory no matter what OS you use. In fact, due to higher resolution of IPP it may put MORE overload instead.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, September 22, 2015 - link
2 GB works reasonably well in Yosemite also, thanks to the memory compression. Mountain Lion choked on 2 GB.andrewaggb - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
You're right it wouldn't be 1:1. Also mobile apps are better at unloading parts of themselves from memory when not active and the OS aggressively unloads apps, both of which would help.I'm just trying to envision even a basic development scenario and see how it would work on IOS. I'd want the IDE open, running code with an attached debugger, I'd need the website open in the browser, I'd need a database of some kind. Right, pretty basic stuff so far, I don't think an iPad pro could do that, at least not the way I am used to. A fully integrated tool, like Coda https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/coda-for-ios/id500... could do most of it - but I'd have to give up all my current tools and workflow to do it.
I suspect many professionals are in the same situation, would you give up your current tools and workflow for increased battery life and portability? I think this is a case of the hardware being ready and the software not being ready. Apple has done well enough that the software might come in a few years (why I said 8 years), but at least for me there really isn't a choice between the surface pro and the ipad pro, IOS and it's apps aren't up to it. I bet there are many use cases where the ipad pro would work well, I just don't think they are my use cases.
name99 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
"In my test case I have Safari with 6 tabs open. These tabs are all pages from a certain technology website which has particularly heavy pages."You're not fooling anyone. Dude, we all know it's theverge.com :-)
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - link
Wow, it is a really hilarious article, from extremely narrow apple ecosystem viewpoint. Maybe the author have NEVER used anything except apple deivces?Commodus - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Maybe it's acknowledging that most people don't switch platforms. It'd be nice to have a broader comparison, but let's face it... many hardcore Android fans likely wouldn't accept any elements of this comparison that paint iOS in a favourable light.photolamus - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Apple iOS 9 release today: artwork issues or trouble?http://blog.photolamus.com/2015/09/16/apple-ios9-a...
yhselp - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Thank you for the in-depth review.It took Anand slightly over a week to write the 5s review, we also used to get timely updates on hardware bits and other interesting features. The iPhone 6 review came about 3 weeks after the announcement and ended with a statement that while cool it can't be as good as Android.
What is the reason for this, and can we expect more timely reviews and interesting side-pieces on Apple products?
Malih - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
iOS 9 have betas everyone can access, so they can start writing a review before it releases.But to do the same for hardware review would require Apple/Samsung to trust the website with an early review device, which is not exactly accessible to everyone. Also Anandtech digs deeper into the hardware architecture compared to some other reviews. That would most likely cause delay, I think.
ReturnFire - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
Are you serious? iOS and iDevice coverage has been fantastic, and has come out in a very timely fashion. Several of the most recent Android devices haven't even had reviews at all, and have been out longer than the 6S (I'm aware this hasn't been reviewed by Anand yet).Nothing against Anand here, and I understand there's good reason for delays in reviewing products (their in-depth, comprehensive nature as an obvious reason), but they certainly aren't slow when it comes to Apple pieces..
willmb - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
What frustrates me is that as an iOS public beta tester, my phone got an upgrade to the beta of iOS 9.1 before iOS 9.0 was released. I upgraded without thinking - and as a result, I am stuck as to how I will transfer all my stuff to my new iPhone 6s when it arrives. iTunes, even the new v12.3, does not properly back up the iOS 9.1 beta phone, so even if I updated the new one to the iOS 9.1 beta first thing out of the box, I wouldn't have a good backup to restore to it. iCloud backups have been working only sporadically as well - and with a 4Mb/s ISP, will be inconvenient to download.Morky - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
Found this for you:http://9to5mac.com/2015/09/16/how-to-downgrade-ios...
darkich - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
Question to the author - why aren't you considering Samsung Android in your conclusion?Care to explain why you give a whole iOS 9 tablet OS props for multitasking even while it applies ONLY for three iPad models, yet you diss a whole Android tablet OS even while entire Galaxy tablet line actually offers similar, and in some ways more advanced multitasking?
blackcrayon - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
"Samsung Android" eh... Funny, not even Samsung actually refers to it that way. Serious question: do the Microsoft Office apps work with Samsung's split screen multitasking?darkich - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
I'm jot using MS Office on Android, but I do know that apps that support multi-screen option can be easily opened, minimized(and moved around as Facebook messenger-like bubbles) and resized within any app, MS Office included.darkich - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
Heck, it even works within games. I'm posting this while playing boom beach on my Galaxy Note and I'm gonna make a screenshot in case you want proof.Works flawlessly!
prophet001 - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
Apple being lauded for introducing half the things the Surface introduced years ago.The Kool-aid is real folks.
nerd1 - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
Even at anandtech, I'm so sad.blackcrayon - Sunday, September 20, 2015 - link
Pretty sure Microsoft was lauded for Surface features Apple introduced in the iPad years before that... But as usual, silly whining (i.e. "computer platform whining") is selective.blindjustice - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
I dont see this article in AnandTech the Apple news app. When will AnandTech website be compatible with Apple News app?knweiss - Sunday, September 20, 2015 - link
FWIW: I'm not sure if app slicing is the reason but app sync to iTunes no longer possible with iOS 9 devices and the latest iTunes. I even opened a Radar on Apple's Bug Reporter which was closed with the comment "Apps are no longer transferred from iOS 9 devices.".Donkey2008 - Monday, September 21, 2015 - link
Following the 15 pages of "The Surface is a business tool and the iPad is a toy" compels me to respond. We use both Surfaces and iPads at a mining company. A Surface 2/3 will NOT run any of the Windows mining software we use (Minesite, Vulcan). It is simply not powerful enough. Sure, it will run AutoCAD, but not a single AC user in our company wants to work on AC files on a 10" tablet. All it is really good for is for taking a Cad drawing to a remote location for review. The same thing can be accomplished on an iPad with the AC app. What the Surfaces ARE good at is for running smaller web apps and Office. We have several databases that we also update directly with the Surfaces. Again, any of these tasks can be completed on an iPad, short of updating an Access database (no Access app for iPad).As for iPad, we mostly give them to managers and execs who are travelling a lot. They get their email just fine. They can work on Word/Excel/PP docs via Citrix or the iOS apps. They can Facetime with our corporate iPhone users for instant face-to-face conferences. They have the Go-To-Meeting app so they can join meetings on the road. We have the Citrix app installed so they can access the network and work in our ERP (SAP). They have the MS RDP client installed so they can access their work computer if they want (Most don't bother and use Citrix and the Office apps).They are very simple to use and require little setup (other than logging into the apps). Just because it isn't a full-fledged desktop does not mean that it isn't a good, mobile business tool. Again, only a brain-dead tech who cannot get past working for Best Buy thinks otherwise.
Peichen - Tuesday, September 22, 2015 - link
Speaking both as an iDevice user and Apple shareholder, the thing I dislike the most about Cook is his willingness to forgo future customers in order to boost quarterly profit. I much rather have a CEO that plans for the future than make a quick buck and just count on core-users in the future.TouchID should be on all iDevices after iPhone 5s, NFC/Apple Pay should be available to all TouchID units. RAM and storage should have doubled with iPhone 6. Free iCloud and paid iCloud should have been way bigger. Battery should be bigger so they still lasts a day after a few years. All these steps would tie users into the ecosystem more retain them as future customers.
I upgrade often but I also want the person buying my used iDevices to have a good experience with older hardware so they would continue to use Apple services.
sonicmerlin - Tuesday, September 22, 2015 - link
Would you be able to use a Safari Content Blocker to create a "text reflow" extension? Basically act like Opera Mobile for Android to specify to websites an artificial width of the iOS device, forcing the page to display words in shorter columns and bigger font?Oxford Guy - Tuesday, September 22, 2015 - link
"OS X Yosemite famously was the first version of OS X to have a public beta"The first version of OS X to have a public beta was the original Public Beta release that predated 10.0. It came after the last developer preview and people had to pay $50 for it.
iam2thecrowe - Thursday, September 24, 2015 - link
"Searching through mail is also much better as well. Previously it would just show you every message that corresponded to the keywords you entered. The search now gives you a list of thread topics that match, and if those aren't sufficient you then have the option to use the older individual message view."I have an iphone 5s i have to use for work. I am actually really frustrated by the new mail search, it worked to my taste before, it brought up what you searched for..... now it brings up a bunch of thread topics, i actually find this useless and have to wait for it to load the individual message view. Since my primary use for this phone beyond being a phone, is email and messaging, this is BS and makes me want to roll back to 8. Vertical keyboard letter spacing has also become larger and now takes getting used to, i find it harder.
Donniesito - Thursday, September 24, 2015 - link
I knew this would turn into a Win vs. Apple thing. I don't understand why people are so vehement when it comes to this particular "debate." I use these machines on a regular (nearly daily) basis:The point in listing my hardware isn't to brag (nothing I have is TOP of the line) -- it's to point out that every platform, every OS and every device has a place. Just use what you want to use, and if you've never used something, broaden your horizons and try it. Just have fun with technology, be productive in whatever way you need. I enjoy all technology -- so lighten up people. Sheesh.
Gaming rig - runs Windows 10.
DAW and Video Editing system - Mac (OS X).
Media Server - Linux
Raspberry Pi - Screwing around with different OS's
Nexus 7 (2012) - Used it until the internal SSD started going south, a known problem
iPod Touch - iTunes (all my music)
iPad Air 2 - Productivity AND fun stuff :-P
Samsung Galaxy S4 - phone
araczynski - Thursday, September 24, 2015 - link
4x4 Folders, that is the only change that I am happy happened. Rest of the stuff I could care less about, well, ok, the two finger keyboard slider is neat.Don't see why it couldn't be a 6x5 Folder though, there's plenty of space there...
[email protected] - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link
Dual tasking is not true multitaskingThommot - Thursday, December 10, 2015 - link
The ads have arrived — and not just in the articles, but ultra-intrusive ads in the article list. Thank you Apple, you made the decision for me kg lot shelling out another £600 ever on your devices. I switched back to Guardian.app and don't bother with other news sources.