Whatever happened to Marvell's Yukon Ethernet controllers? They were a good mid-range value back in the day, not quite as good as Intel, but way better than Realtek. I'll be interested to see how good this new Dragon controller is, though I tend to suspect that if you're willing to pay more than for the base model, just going Intel will remain the best choice.
Marvell Yukon had a high cost and was basically replaced by the Intel 210. Broadcom still plays a minor roll although I don't see their controllers as much as I used too.
I believe you meant hacking Intel drivers to get them to install onto Windows Server OS'. Drivers for consumer editions of Windows are available for the LM grade of chips.
I'm confused with both statements. I have been running MBs with Intel NICs on both consumer Windows and Windows Server editions, and never had a driver problem.
I don't know what they've done with their higher-end stuff historically, but recently they've started to withhold server OS drivers for some of their consumer grade chips. For example, the i-218v won't install on Windows Server 2012R2 without driver hacking.
Then again Killer does a similar thing where you can't install just the minimalist Atheros driver, even though the hardware is pretty much the same. They changed the firmware IDs such that you have to install their bloatware unless you hack the driver.
For the Intel chips, the only time I've seen unsupported hardware is on ESXi, since ESXi doesn't support the LM variants.. We just popped in one of my old Intel Gigabit ET cards in instead (home machine) and didn't bother modifying the ESXi installer to add in newer drivers.
Naa he is right, I have used many Intel NIC cards where this is sometimes problem with what they say is supported and what actually is. One example is the Intel I340-T2 and T4. Their NIC driver still says it supports the card on the website but it doesn't install in Windows 8 and 8.1. They never added in the proper entry in the newer OS's NDIS folders in the driver package. You can edit it manually going by what their entry looks like in the Windows 7 NDIS folder and then install it as an unsigned driver but that's ridiculous for a product that says its supported on their site. And it doesn't seem to matter how many times you report it to them either, you never get past their level 1 tech who tells you something you explained in the first sentence of the report like using their expert technical skills to go to the download page to inform you that it says it is supported. Wow thanks.
I've had something similar with my older Gigabit ET cards.. they're unsupported under 8.1 despite full support under 8.0 (to be fair, they did declare end of active support before 8.1 came out). In the end I just went and got an i350-T4 and replaced it. My time is worth more than hacking with drivers.
Haven't seen any server/consumer lockout so far though, so I can't really comment there...
I agree wholheartedly, I consider Realtek nics barely passable at best and Atheros (like the Killer series) ones a liability. I'd pay extra for a board with an Intel NIC over either and this branding scheme has me worried that more motherboard manufacturers will buy these thinking they're what "gamers" want.
I guess I can get a non-gaming marketed board again...
I've had problems using Killer's WiFi NICs in laptops and am reluctant to use them ever again. Realtek presents its products in an OEM-friendly, but apathetic seeming manner that doesn't inspire confidence and doesn't really detract from it either. The Realtek wired stuff that I've used hasn't ever been overly problematic, but I don't put much wired ethernet to use these days and Intel seems to have the most reliable wireless adapters.
To be fair, the MAC in integrated in the PCH, and the remaining hardware is basically just the PHY... there's not much hardware to give to users in the first place...
Read the other sections. They all follow the same format: "company X hardware does/doesn't ship with end-user software". This is the only one that doesn't follow that format, and it doesn't make any sense reading it the way it's written.
None of the other OEMs ship end-user hardware, either.
Realtek and Intel NICs work for me. Killer bloated software is bloated crap that does absolutely nothing good and is prone to issues. Luckily, Qualcomm has enough sense to offer a driver only package. But I'll be avoiding any motherboards with Qualcomm/Atheros/Killer NICs.
What makes Intel NICs "better" than Realtek/Broadcom? Are Realtek NICs unable to provide 1 Gbps throughput or something? It'd be pretty stupid to say a product supports gigabit Ethernet and then fail to reach that speed, because complaints over false advertising would crop up.
I couldn't find a comparative review of Intel/Realtek/Broadcom NICs. There were some forum threads, but none of them gave hard data. I'm very curious about how those NICs actually differ.
Gigabit is irrelevant these days: CPUs are more than fast enough. The issue for me has always been driver quality and support... between no driver support for more esoteric OSes/distros like ESXi (VMware vSphere hypervisor), sub-par drivers on Windows compared to Intel (where are my VLAN/LAG options?) often missing jumbo frame support, and limited hardware offloads (the usual performance argument, though less relevant at gigabit speeds), Intel and Broadcom (server chips only.. their consumer chips suck and don't show up anymore on business-grade OEM machines...) are the only viable options for ,yself and many others.
Things that differentiate NIC's are stuff like driver O/S availability, support of various hardware offloading (like tcp checksumming, etc), lower driver cpu overhead, better auto-detection of speed/duplex -- especially with long or iffy cables, etc.
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LtGoonRush - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Whatever happened to Marvell's Yukon Ethernet controllers? They were a good mid-range value back in the day, not quite as good as Intel, but way better than Realtek. I'll be interested to see how good this new Dragon controller is, though I tend to suspect that if you're willing to pay more than for the base model, just going Intel will remain the best choice.Samus - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Marvell Yukon had a high cost and was basically replaced by the Intel 210. Broadcom still plays a minor roll although I don't see their controllers as much as I used too.ericloewe - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Realtek's NICs are crap held together by drivers and user indifference.Killer is a lame attempt at marketing Realtek-grade stuff as 31337h4x0r.
I'm afraid the only good GbE solutions are made by Intel. There's a reason server-grade stuff uses Intel GbE exclusively.
docbones - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Problem with Intel is you have to hack their drivers to get them to install into consumer OS's. I would much rather have Realtek.dreamslacker - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
I believe you meant hacking Intel drivers to get them to install onto Windows Server OS'. Drivers for consumer editions of Windows are available for the LM grade of chips.nevcairiel - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
I'm confused with both statements. I have been running MBs with Intel NICs on both consumer Windows and Windows Server editions, and never had a driver problem.Metaluna - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
I don't know what they've done with their higher-end stuff historically, but recently they've started to withhold server OS drivers for some of their consumer grade chips. For example, the i-218v won't install on Windows Server 2012R2 without driver hacking.Then again Killer does a similar thing where you can't install just the minimalist Atheros driver, even though the hardware is pretty much the same. They changed the firmware IDs such that you have to install their bloatware unless you hack the driver.
ZeDestructor - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
For the Intel chips, the only time I've seen unsupported hardware is on ESXi, since ESXi doesn't support the LM variants.. We just popped in one of my old Intel Gigabit ET cards in instead (home machine) and didn't bother modifying the ESXi installer to add in newer drivers.Krause - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Naa he is right, I have used many Intel NIC cards where this is sometimes problem with what they say is supported and what actually is. One example is the Intel I340-T2 and T4. Their NIC driver still says it supports the card on the website but it doesn't install in Windows 8 and 8.1. They never added in the proper entry in the newer OS's NDIS folders in the driver package. You can edit it manually going by what their entry looks like in the Windows 7 NDIS folder and then install it as an unsigned driver but that's ridiculous for a product that says its supported on their site. And it doesn't seem to matter how many times you report it to them either, you never get past their level 1 tech who tells you something you explained in the first sentence of the report like using their expert technical skills to go to the download page to inform you that it says it is supported. Wow thanks.ZeDestructor - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
I've had something similar with my older Gigabit ET cards.. they're unsupported under 8.1 despite full support under 8.0 (to be fair, they did declare end of active support before 8.1 came out). In the end I just went and got an i350-T4 and replaced it. My time is worth more than hacking with drivers.Haven't seen any server/consumer lockout so far though, so I can't really comment there...
FUSION5 - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
IMO Broadcom is the only other big player for enterprise stuff.ZeDestructor - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
And to a much more minor extent, Mellanox... It's sad tbh...Flunk - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
I agree wholheartedly, I consider Realtek nics barely passable at best and Atheros (like the Killer series) ones a liability. I'd pay extra for a board with an Intel NIC over either and this branding scheme has me worried that more motherboard manufacturers will buy these thinking they're what "gamers" want.I guess I can get a non-gaming marketed board again...
BrokenCrayons - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
I've had problems using Killer's WiFi NICs in laptops and am reluctant to use them ever again. Realtek presents its products in an OEM-friendly, but apathetic seeming manner that doesn't inspire confidence and doesn't really detract from it either. The Realtek wired stuff that I've used hasn't ever been overly problematic, but I don't put much wired ethernet to use these days and Intel seems to have the most reliable wireless adapters.phoenix_rizzen - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
From the article, 3rd paragraph:"Intel’s hardware doesn’t come with much end-user hardware,"
Guessing that second "hardware" is supposed to be "software".
Gigaplex - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
No, it means Intel hardware (network chip) doesn't come with much end-user hardware (consumer grade motherboards).ZeDestructor - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
To be fair, the MAC in integrated in the PCH, and the remaining hardware is basically just the PHY... there's not much hardware to give to users in the first place...phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
Read the other sections. They all follow the same format: "company X hardware does/doesn't ship with end-user software". This is the only one that doesn't follow that format, and it doesn't make any sense reading it the way it's written.None of the other OEMs ship end-user hardware, either.
Zak - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Realtek and Intel NICs work for me. Killer bloated software is bloated crap that does absolutely nothing good and is prone to issues. Luckily, Qualcomm has enough sense to offer a driver only package. But I'll be avoiding any motherboards with Qualcomm/Atheros/Killer NICs.chlamchowder - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
What makes Intel NICs "better" than Realtek/Broadcom? Are Realtek NICs unable to provide 1 Gbps throughput or something? It'd be pretty stupid to say a product supports gigabit Ethernet and then fail to reach that speed, because complaints over false advertising would crop up.I couldn't find a comparative review of Intel/Realtek/Broadcom NICs. There were some forum threads, but none of them gave hard data. I'm very curious about how those NICs actually differ.
eh_ch - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Intel required much less CPU utilization in the early gigabit days. Don't know if it still holds true.ZeDestructor - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Gigabit is irrelevant these days: CPUs are more than fast enough. The issue for me has always been driver quality and support... between no driver support for more esoteric OSes/distros like ESXi (VMware vSphere hypervisor), sub-par drivers on Windows compared to Intel (where are my VLAN/LAG options?) often missing jumbo frame support, and limited hardware offloads (the usual performance argument, though less relevant at gigabit speeds), Intel and Broadcom (server chips only.. their consumer chips suck and don't show up anymore on business-grade OEM machines...) are the only viable options for ,yself and many others.extide - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Things that differentiate NIC's are stuff like driver O/S availability, support of various hardware offloading (like tcp checksumming, etc), lower driver cpu overhead, better auto-detection of speed/duplex -- especially with long or iffy cables, etc.DukeN - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
Please skip the branding and marketing commentary and stick to the technicals.Trying to be some slick turdpolishers has killed this site.
Gigaplex - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
When the only thing going for the product is marketing, the reporters usually need to make some kind of commentary on the marketing.jabber - Thursday, July 9, 2015 - link
All I have taken from these so called 'Super NICs' is that in the bench tests against the $25 Intel Gigabit NICs, the Intels always won.