I've never understood the appeal of these kinds of motherboards.
Are there that many people itching to pay twice as much for ddr4?
Maybe the performance is there, but it doesn't feel that influential for most use cases.
If I had an old ddr3 kit, is want to use it for as long as humanly possible. I surely wouldn't go out of my way to but a motherboard that allows me to prematurely upgrade to ddr4.
If you're not able to reuse the memory, it's there when you sell the previous computer whole on craigslist or gumtree, and you have extra money to buy new parts.
considering most boards will be DDR4 only, this is what you would want if you didn't want to upgrade to DDR4. Personally if I'm buying a whole new system including Motherboard and CPU, I am also going to go all the way with DDR4.
DDR3 was great with Core 2's because a lot of the time when overclocking those you ran out of dividers for the memory bus and ended up having to run really high mem clocks to get really fast FSB's. DDR3 obviously was much more OK with that.
However, that probably wont be an issue this time around as there is no more fsb and all that .. soo yeah DDR4 will probably offer little to no perf improvement, BUT when DDR4 goes mainstream it will get cheaper, a lot cheaper.
Ok, so apparently DDR4 is basically at DDR3 prices. There's a small premium, but it's <20%.
I still think it is wasteful for those with existing machines, but it probably makes sense to go for DDR4 for brand new builds if you have a little bit of extra cash in the budget.
That's been the case since DDR. Higher frequency but higher CAS Latency means overall latency levels out (CL/MHz is somewhat consistent). By going for the latest version, you're opening up to higher capacities and lower voltage. DRAM updates happen every 5 years at best after all.
Yes, but isn't there also a curve where early production tends to be worse in terms of overall performance due to higher latency? It seems like that's where we are with DDR4 at the moment. It also seems to be optimized more for power savings than performance at the moment.
Was kinda curious if they would show up. But it feels like the prices-ratio of DDR4-DDR3 are a lot lower already than DDR3-DDR2 , you can get 8GB of DDR4 for around 70 dollars or 4GB for around 30? Aren't these motherboards most of the time aimed for people on a budget? So not like you would recuperate a expensive DDR3 set. Then again if every penny counts and you have a ton of machines to upgrade maby?
DDR4 2400 is roughly 20% more expensive than DDR3 1866, from what I've seen. Not that bad. DDR3 was a lot more expensive than DDR2 for awhile. I think having servers and the Haswell-E chips out first has helped bring the price down more quickly.
So far the extremely limited "Broadwell on desktop" tests have shown it to work just fine with regular 1.5 V DDR3. I would expect Skylake to perform comparably. One question which was left out is: does it also work at higher clocks (like all previous unlocked Core CPUs) and does it also work with 1.65 V high performance DDR3? Whether this is worth or not, it would be really cool if some big website at least tested it so we know if the option is there or not.
No, do not trust them blindly. Do you remember Intel chips with an integrated memory controller being killed by higher memory voltage? It damaged the integrated memory controller, but users failed to realize it until it was too late... Thus, I would never say that it worked "just fine"; rather, I would keep in mid the keyword "limited" first and foremost.
I am one of those people who want skylake but don't want to buy new ram but this board is unworkable for me I need 4 ddr3 ram slots for my 4 x 4gb dims. I also fail to see the point of having both ddr3 and ddr4 on the same board who is going to go out and buy ddr4 to replace there ddr3 and keep the same platform?
Hope for a 4xDDR3 board then. IIRC none of the DDR1/DDR2 or DDR2/DDR3 board I've seen in the past had more than 4 dimm slots. Also, IIRC not seeing any high end boards with the dual ram config; they were all mid/low level models like the H170/B150 boards BioStar made.
I remember upgrading a very old system. Told them the old RAM was $400 and a new system with twice what I could install was on their old system was $700 at the time. They opted for the old ram to not have to change OS/software. In that situation This would have given them more RAM for a lot less.
I have 32GB of DDR3 bought with my Ivy Bridge system 3 years ago. That will last me 5 more years at least in terms of memory consumption in games and non-professional applications.
Why should I be forced to go to DDR4 if it doesn't provide any benefit (in either speed or capacity). I'm happy such motherboards exists, and I really hope they still make them with DDR3 for quite a long time ...
I think this kind of budget board is aimed at OEMs. While building a system and they don't have some type of memory or they know that lot may have a lot of bad parts they may change to the other type of memory. This might not be true right now, but later when dd4 is a lot cheaper, or 3 gets as expensive as 2.
UniDIMM From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Two UniDIMM variants, with one of them having the same dimensions as DDR4 SO-DIMMs[1]:28
UniDIMM (short for Universal DIMM) is a specification for dual in-line memory modules (DIMMs), which are integrated circuits mounted on printed circuit boards (PCBs) and designed to carry dynamic random-access memory (DRAM). UniDIMM modules can be populated with either DDR3 or DDR4 chips, and the computer's memory controller must support both memory standards as UniDIMMs contain no additional memory control logic. The UniDIMM specification was created by Intel for its 2015 Skylake microarchitecture, whose integrated memory controller (IMC) is announced to support both DDR3 and DDR4 memory technologies.[2][3]
UniDIMM is a SO-DIMM form factor with dimensions of 69.6 mm × 30 mm (2.74 by 1.18 inches) for the standard version (which are the same as DDR4 SO-DIMM dimensions[4]), and 69.6 mm × 20 mm (2.74 by 0.79 inches) for the low-profile version.[5][1]:28 UniDIMM has a 260-pin edge connector (the same pin count as for DDR4 SO-DIMMs[4]), with the keying notch in a position that prevents wrong installation by making UniDIMMs physically incompatible with both standard DDR3 and standard DDR4 SO-DIMM sockets. As the DDR4 chips operate at a lower voltage than DDR3 chips (1.2 V versus 1.5 V), UniDIMM modules are designed to contain additional built-in voltage regulation circuitry.[2][1]:27–30
UniDIMM was designed to help the market transition from DDR3 to DDR4 SDRAM. As in previous RAM standard transitions, like from DDR2 to DDR3, there is a "chicken or the egg" problem – as a new product line, the new RAM standard is initially more expensive, yielding low demand and resulting in low production rates. During the DDR2 to DDR3 transition, this was sometimes handled by creating motherboards with separate slots for DDR2 and DDR3 modules, out of which only one set could be used.[6] By its design, UniDIMM specification allows either DDR3 or DDR4 memory to be used in the same memory slots, resulting in no wasted motherboard space that would otherwise be occupied by unused memory slots.[5]
As of September 2014, UniDIMM is not standardized by JEDEC,[2] with Kingston and Micron as the main supporters.[1]:28
Since the chip supports both DDR3/DDR4, why not have a single or dual slot interface that allows users to plug a RAM riser card depending on their choice of memory?
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ImSpartacus - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
I've never understood the appeal of these kinds of motherboards.Are there that many people itching to pay twice as much for ddr4?
Maybe the performance is there, but it doesn't feel that influential for most use cases.
If I had an old ddr3 kit, is want to use it for as long as humanly possible. I surely wouldn't go out of my way to but a motherboard that allows me to prematurely upgrade to ddr4.
Am I crazy?
extide - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
You have it backwards. Boards will typically be DDR4 only, or 3 and 4. SO, apparently these boards appeal to you!ImSpartacus - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
Why won't we see DDR3-only Skylake boards?I'd hate to waste two DIMMs that I would literally never use.
extide - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
You probably will, but they will be the exception, not the rule.TomWomack - Monday, July 6, 2015 - link
If you're not able to reuse the memory, it's there when you sell the previous computer whole on craigslist or gumtree, and you have extra money to buy new parts.cmdrdredd - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
considering most boards will be DDR4 only, this is what you would want if you didn't want to upgrade to DDR4. Personally if I'm buying a whole new system including Motherboard and CPU, I am also going to go all the way with DDR4.ImSpartacus - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
I don't recall that DDR3 was much to write home about in the context of DDR2. I doubt DDR4 will bebe much different.extide - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
DDR3 was great with Core 2's because a lot of the time when overclocking those you ran out of dividers for the memory bus and ended up having to run really high mem clocks to get really fast FSB's. DDR3 obviously was much more OK with that.However, that probably wont be an issue this time around as there is no more fsb and all that .. soo yeah DDR4 will probably offer little to no perf improvement, BUT when DDR4 goes mainstream it will get cheaper, a lot cheaper.
ImSpartacus - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
I'm thinking that by the time DDR4 gets to DDR3's prices, we'll be past Skylake and onto something else.Eventually DDR4 will make sense for a budget-minded desktop user, but I don't think Skylake will be Intel's best & brightest when that happens.
ImSpartacus - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
Ok, so apparently DDR4 is basically at DDR3 prices. There's a small premium, but it's <20%.I still think it is wasteful for those with existing machines, but it probably makes sense to go for DDR4 for brand new builds if you have a little bit of extra cash in the budget.
Oxford Guy - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
The problem so far seems to be that the high latency of DDR4 erases its speed improvement.Ian Cutress - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
That's been the case since DDR. Higher frequency but higher CAS Latency means overall latency levels out (CL/MHz is somewhat consistent). By going for the latest version, you're opening up to higher capacities and lower voltage. DRAM updates happen every 5 years at best after all.Oxford Guy - Saturday, July 11, 2015 - link
Yes, but isn't there also a curve where early production tends to be worse in terms of overall performance due to higher latency? It seems like that's where we are with DDR4 at the moment. It also seems to be optimized more for power savings than performance at the moment.LukaP - Saturday, July 4, 2015 - link
Latencies are literally equal or better than 1600 CL9 in their absolute values (which is what matters).plopke - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
Was kinda curious if they would show up. But it feels like the prices-ratio of DDR4-DDR3 are a lot lower already than DDR3-DDR2 , you can get 8GB of DDR4 for around 70 dollars or 4GB for around 30? Aren't these motherboards most of the time aimed for people on a budget? So not like you would recuperate a expensive DDR3 set. Then again if every penny counts and you have a ton of machines to upgrade maby?DigitalFreak - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
DDR4 2400 is roughly 20% more expensive than DDR3 1866, from what I've seen. Not that bad. DDR3 was a lot more expensive than DDR2 for awhile. I think having servers and the Haswell-E chips out first has helped bring the price down more quickly.Oxford Guy - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
But for that price you could get lower latency DDR3 2400.MrSpadge - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
So far the extremely limited "Broadwell on desktop" tests have shown it to work just fine with regular 1.5 V DDR3. I would expect Skylake to perform comparably. One question which was left out is: does it also work at higher clocks (like all previous unlocked Core CPUs) and does it also work with 1.65 V high performance DDR3? Whether this is worth or not, it would be really cool if some big website at least tested it so we know if the option is there or not.Antikapitalista - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
No, do not trust them blindly.Do you remember Intel chips with an integrated memory controller being killed by higher memory voltage? It damaged the integrated memory controller, but users failed to realize it until it was too late...
Thus, I would never say that it worked "just fine"; rather, I would keep in mid the keyword "limited" first and foremost.
Ian Cutress - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
It will mostly likely be on a per-chip basis. With DDR3L, it means regular DDR3 kits will not be put on the QVL list and your mileage may vary.biohazard918 - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
I am one of those people who want skylake but don't want to buy new ram but this board is unworkable for me I need 4 ddr3 ram slots for my 4 x 4gb dims. I also fail to see the point of having both ddr3 and ddr4 on the same board who is going to go out and buy ddr4 to replace there ddr3 and keep the same platform?DanNeely - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
Hope for a 4xDDR3 board then. IIRC none of the DDR1/DDR2 or DDR2/DDR3 board I've seen in the past had more than 4 dimm slots. Also, IIRC not seeing any high end boards with the dual ram config; they were all mid/low level models like the H170/B150 boards BioStar made.CuriousHomeBody - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
I remember upgrading a very old system. Told them the old RAM was $400 and a new system with twice what I could install was on their old system was $700 at the time. They opted for the old ram to not have to change OS/software. In that situation This would have given them more RAM for a lot less.wavetrex - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
I have 32GB of DDR3 bought with my Ivy Bridge system 3 years ago. That will last me 5 more years at least in terms of memory consumption in games and non-professional applications.Why should I be forced to go to DDR4 if it doesn't provide any benefit (in either speed or capacity).
I'm happy such motherboards exists, and I really hope they still make them with DDR3 for quite a long time ...
LauRoman - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
I think this kind of budget board is aimed at OEMs. While building a system and they don't have some type of memory or they know that lot may have a lot of bad parts they may change to the other type of memory. This might not be true right now, but later when dd4 is a lot cheaper, or 3 gets as expensive as 2.blahsaysblah - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
What happened to UniDimm support with Skylake?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UniDIMM
UniDIMM
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Two UniDIMM variants, with one of them having the same dimensions as DDR4 SO-DIMMs[1]:28
UniDIMM (short for Universal DIMM) is a specification for dual in-line memory modules (DIMMs), which are integrated circuits mounted on printed circuit boards (PCBs) and designed to carry dynamic random-access memory (DRAM). UniDIMM modules can be populated with either DDR3 or DDR4 chips, and the computer's memory controller must support both memory standards as UniDIMMs contain no additional memory control logic. The UniDIMM specification was created by Intel for its 2015 Skylake microarchitecture, whose integrated memory controller (IMC) is announced to support both DDR3 and DDR4 memory technologies.[2][3]
UniDIMM is a SO-DIMM form factor with dimensions of 69.6 mm × 30 mm (2.74 by 1.18 inches) for the standard version (which are the same as DDR4 SO-DIMM dimensions[4]), and 69.6 mm × 20 mm (2.74 by 0.79 inches) for the low-profile version.[5][1]:28 UniDIMM has a 260-pin edge connector (the same pin count as for DDR4 SO-DIMMs[4]), with the keying notch in a position that prevents wrong installation by making UniDIMMs physically incompatible with both standard DDR3 and standard DDR4 SO-DIMM sockets. As the DDR4 chips operate at a lower voltage than DDR3 chips (1.2 V versus 1.5 V), UniDIMM modules are designed to contain additional built-in voltage regulation circuitry.[2][1]:27–30
UniDIMM was designed to help the market transition from DDR3 to DDR4 SDRAM. As in previous RAM standard transitions, like from DDR2 to DDR3, there is a "chicken or the egg" problem – as a new product line, the new RAM standard is initially more expensive, yielding low demand and resulting in low production rates. During the DDR2 to DDR3 transition, this was sometimes handled by creating motherboards with separate slots for DDR2 and DDR3 modules, out of which only one set could be used.[6] By its design, UniDIMM specification allows either DDR3 or DDR4 memory to be used in the same memory slots, resulting in no wasted motherboard space that would otherwise be occupied by unused memory slots.[5]
As of September 2014, UniDIMM is not standardized by JEDEC,[2] with Kingston and Micron as the main supporters.[1]:28
extide - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
It never took off, although there is still a possibility it might .. we'll see.yuhong - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
Mobile only.Peeping Tom - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
Since the chip supports both DDR3/DDR4, why not have a single or dual slot interface that allows users to plug a RAM riser card depending on their choice of memory?yuhong - Thursday, July 2, 2015 - link
I don't think the plain DDR3/DDR2 interface is friendly to riser cards. Intel SMB used in Xeon E7 is.agoyal - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
I am waiting to upgrade from sandybridge, already have 16gb ddr3, this would be great for someone like me, who already has DDR3svan1971 - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
Horrible concept confusing and in the end plain stupid.