Looks like Intel finally reined in the E3s. For the past 5 years, the E3s have been rising in popularity as good gaming CPUs. By setting a price point higher than that of the 5775C, Intel basically has killed the E3v4's gaming prospects.
completely agree!!! there was a reason to buy cheap e3's... and now with graphic they ruin the price points for everyone.... intel... WE DON"T WANT YOU FKKKKKKING GWAPHICSSSSS
It's kind of annoying. The Xeons were the one way to get by without paying for the extra silicon you wouldn't use if you had discreet graphics, often over half the die size. Seems wasteful to not have the option to get them without the integrated graphics, but Intel just wants to eat up a bigger part of the BoM of your computer.
Actually it's about undermining Nvidia's low end sales and preparing its graphics architecture for deployment on E5/E7 Skylake Xeons. Intel intends to knock Nvidia out of the HPC space altogether so it can legally go through with a merger. Seriously people, it's obvious why Intel isn't pushing CPU power on the desktop side while simultaneously is going all in on the Xeon Phi and its integrated graphics. This is the same company that beat IBM out of the server market once before starting from nothing. The game is much bigger than the PC market.
Yes. Intel's trying to keep AMD alive long enough for it to knock Nvidia out of competition for a buyout, and simultaneously Nvidia is trying to knock AMD out of business so it can swipe up x86_64 and set itself up for better market differentiation with PC drying up. If Intel gets Nvidia, IBM, AMD, Qualcomm, and eventually even Samsung won't be able to stand against it.
The licensing agreement INTC/NVDA ends at 2016. So after that your theory might be correct. But if AMD files for bankruptcy which I have predicted long ago in 2017. INTC will face long litigations from the different governing bodies in US, and EU and your theory will be DOA.
The Xeon E3's all have the graphics lithography on-die, it's just deactivated. For example, the die of the E3-1230v3 is identical to a i7-4770.
The i7-4770(k) has an enabled IGP and overclocking support. The E3-1230v3 has disabled graphics and ECC support when combined with a capable chipset. Obviously if you run one in an 80/90 series chipset there is no ECC support but the chip otherwise matches the performance for $100 less.
They were never good gaming chips. An i5 clocked higher was better in 95% of games and cheaper. People buying E3s as gaming chips was an extremely niche market.
I bought the 1230 v3 in 2013 hoping games would get better at multithreading thanks to new consoles. That has not happened yet, but it still might with DX12. Still, 3.5 GHz is fine in most games, and HT is useful when I do video encoding.
Same reason why I got a 3930K. Thankfully at 4.8ghz it will still give Haswell-E a run for it's money. The 6 cores/12 threads seemed like a good idea at the time for longevity, my Q6600 is still running games today despite multiple people recommending against picking up that chip due to the lack of software/games that could use those cores.
Well... Guess who got the last laugh? :P I expect a similar thing with my 3930K, it's been 4 years and it still handles everything you could throw at it.
Have you played witcher 3? If you need higher fps (60+), something with HT (4770, xeon e3) is the way to go, as it adds some 20% compared to 4670 at the same power consumption level and without the need for a big cooler and overclocking
I have a haswell E3, and I bought it for a small home server. Why do you think they're popular for gaming PCs. They're very similarly priced to the equivalent i5/i7.
How is the E3-1285 v4 in any way better than the E3-1285L v4? The latter costs less, has a higher base frequency, and a lower TDP. Or am I missing something?
Also, an "E5" slipped through in one paragraph where I think you meant "E3".
I think the table must be wrong. The Model and TDP got swapped. The E3-1285 v4 makes sense as the E3-1285L v4 if you assume it should be 65w instead of 95w. Slightly slower base speed and higher price. Going the other way Higher base speed and 95w but slightly cheaper. Fits the way intel usually does the low power processor.
Still need to fix the prices unless the E3-1285L v4 is actually cheaper than the E3-1285 v4. The prices on the E3-1258L v4 looks odd too. Why is it more expensive than the E3-1265L v4? It's slower, got crippled graphics and memory, no L4 cache and higher TDP but it's still more expensive?
The PCI-Passthrough sounds interesting. I'm assuming the host gets to use the GPU when the VM it's assigned to isn't running? It would be nice to have full access to the GPUs for old-game VMs.
Well currently you'd have to enable a PCIe stub driver on the host system which prevents other components from accessing the GPU. You can even pass through other PCIe cards. This works with any system with an IOMMU (usually only Xeon/Opteron series).
However, some network cards support "partitioning" the network adapter so that using a purpose built driver you can use part of the network card in the host while still preserving isolation. This could also be possible with GPUs in the future.
Xeon-D "launched" a month ago, but is still kind of hard to find. It could just be that I'm not familiar with how server parts are launched and where they become available. Enough other server stuff pops up on Newegg/Amazon. I assumed these would, too. I'm just after a D-1540 no frills motherboard in the $800 range.
Apparently there has been large bulk demand for the D-1540 from large deployment companies. And since these companies are ordering in such large quantities they are getting first crack at availability. Recently however, there has been availability on the market for the Supermicro solutions if sporadically.
Yeah, and that Supermicro X10SDV-F runs for $1,000 from affiliate/partner vendors right now. I'm hoping when the major lower margin, high volume retailers get it, it will be closer to $800. I mean, the CPU costs $581. I don't understand how a mini-itx board around it WITHOUT 10 GbE could possibly add $400.
My X10SDV-F board, which I ordered through a friend who runs a company with a Supermicro redistributor account, arrived this morning; should have it working by Wednesday (need to wait for SSD and case fan to arrive).
They are still very hard to come by, and I have yet to see a board with SFP+ 10GbE to hit the market. Asrockrack announced something like that but it isn't even listed on their web site.
So what is exactly the Intel HD Graphics P5700 , can't find how many EUs that would be. The die shot in the slide seems to have maybe 16EUs and looks about 83mm2 (my guess for the i7-5775C is 164mm2). Interesting that they could make a quad with 8MB cache and no gpu inside 55-60mm2.
Intel doesn't have any specifications that list the exact configuration. However all Broadwell GT2 parts have been 5000 series, and all GT3(e) parts have been 6000 series, so this is almost certainly a 23/24EU GT2 part, similar to the i7-5700HQ.
Yup. Sigh. Why do they have to cut out the option to buy an Intel CPU without paying the extra die size cost of the graphics? So wasteful if you never use them, if you have a discreet card.
Seems obvious that they just do not want to replace Haswell by Broadwell, they keep selling it until Skylake comes out. Obviously the 14nm process is not all that well under control yet.
look at that the memory controller got a speed bump, now native speed for 1866mghz!! yes!! DDR3 1600 is too slow. and it looks like they are getting better with the northbridge on chip! Nice.
I hope broadwell/skylake get the bump in memory freq as well. if not ill still grab a zeon lol
Xeon-D might be better as server chip but not as workstation especially workstations that require high single-threaded performance. Here the higher clocks of the E3 are king.
I'm ready to switch out my LGA1366 home server with a Xeon-D based system. Will be awesome to go from full size ATX to mITX mobo at the same time for a more compact chassis. Running my VMs will be easy with 16 threads :()
actually... will be postponing the virtualization testing to a later date, my apologies. It is so time consuming and hard to keep repetitive that I want to it in one big virtualization article instead of repeating that testing every time a new chip comes out. But all other tests will be included.
It may be that this stuff is already integrated in Phoronix Test Suite, I remember a few benchmarks being posted (also comparing Xen, KVM and VirtualBox on the same hardware). Makes for easily repeatable benchmarks, although it doesn't support Windows or VMWare.
I AM DEARLY WAITING FOR THE E3 V4 SERIES, WITH THE IRIS PRO 6300 AS BASIC GRAPHIC, WHO NEED A SEPARATE WORKSTATION VIDEO CARD THAT ARE BELOW THE PERFORMANCE OF QUADRO K4000 OR AMD FIREPRO W5100 SERIES. ALL GOOD GRAPHICS THAT I DO CAN BE DONE AT NOT MORE THAN 200WATT FOR A COMPLETE SYSTEM WITH SSD RAID SETUP.
For a server to run Plex, these would be great! I have a TS140 w/ E3 1225 v3, so it's not worth the upgrade, but if I were in the market today, I'd get one.
For my oppinion the E3-1200 v4 especially the E3-1285 v4 would be a very nice Solution. Unfortunately until now i cant find a Serer Manufacturer where i can get such a Machine. Even the big german 5: Thomas Krenn, HP, DELL, Fujitsu and Servermeile had no Server until today.
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tabascosauz - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Looks like Intel finally reined in the E3s. For the past 5 years, the E3s have been rising in popularity as good gaming CPUs. By setting a price point higher than that of the 5775C, Intel basically has killed the E3v4's gaming prospects.austinsguitar - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
completely agree!!! there was a reason to buy cheap e3's... and now with graphic they ruin the price points for everyone.... intel... WE DON"T WANT YOU FKKKKKKING GWAPHICSSSSSCasper42 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link
Then just wait a few more months for SkyLake instead.aakash_sin - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
+1tipoo - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
It's kind of annoying. The Xeons were the one way to get by without paying for the extra silicon you wouldn't use if you had discreet graphics, often over half the die size. Seems wasteful to not have the option to get them without the integrated graphics, but Intel just wants to eat up a bigger part of the BoM of your computer.patrickjp93 - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Actually it's about undermining Nvidia's low end sales and preparing its graphics architecture for deployment on E5/E7 Skylake Xeons. Intel intends to knock Nvidia out of the HPC space altogether so it can legally go through with a merger. Seriously people, it's obvious why Intel isn't pushing CPU power on the desktop side while simultaneously is going all in on the Xeon Phi and its integrated graphics. This is the same company that beat IBM out of the server market once before starting from nothing. The game is much bigger than the PC market.hingsun - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
AGREE!Refuge - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
So you think Intel is knocking nVidia out of the super computer database market in the hopes of being able to buy them up without being shot down?(Not sarcastic, truly an honest question, because if so I want to hear more on this theory, it seems interesting and unique.)
patrickjp93 - Thursday, June 11, 2015 - link
Yes. Intel's trying to keep AMD alive long enough for it to knock Nvidia out of competition for a buyout, and simultaneously Nvidia is trying to knock AMD out of business so it can swipe up x86_64 and set itself up for better market differentiation with PC drying up. If Intel gets Nvidia, IBM, AMD, Qualcomm, and eventually even Samsung won't be able to stand against it.Vlad_Da_Great - Friday, July 3, 2015 - link
The licensing agreement INTC/NVDA ends at 2016. So after that your theory might be correct. But if AMD files for bankruptcy which I have predicted long ago in 2017. INTC will face long litigations from the different governing bodies in US, and EU and your theory will be DOA.Samus - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
The Xeon E3's all have the graphics lithography on-die, it's just deactivated. For example, the die of the E3-1230v3 is identical to a i7-4770.The i7-4770(k) has an enabled IGP and overclocking support.
The E3-1230v3 has disabled graphics and ECC support when combined with a capable chipset. Obviously if you run one in an 80/90 series chipset there is no ECC support but the chip otherwise matches the performance for $100 less.
extide - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Dont worry guys, the Broadwell gen is a bit screwy. I think things will be much more "back to normal" with skylake stuff. Soon.MapRef41N93W - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
They were never good gaming chips. An i5 clocked higher was better in 95% of games and cheaper. People buying E3s as gaming chips was an extremely niche market.Harry Lloyd - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
I bought the 1230 v3 in 2013 hoping games would get better at multithreading thanks to new consoles. That has not happened yet, but it still might with DX12.Still, 3.5 GHz is fine in most games, and HT is useful when I do video encoding.
StevoLincolnite - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Same reason why I got a 3930K. Thankfully at 4.8ghz it will still give Haswell-E a run for it's money.The 6 cores/12 threads seemed like a good idea at the time for longevity, my Q6600 is still running games today despite multiple people recommending against picking up that chip due to the lack of software/games that could use those cores.
Well... Guess who got the last laugh? :P
I expect a similar thing with my 3930K, it's been 4 years and it still handles everything you could throw at it.
SuperVeloce - Tuesday, June 9, 2015 - link
Have you played witcher 3? If you need higher fps (60+), something with HT (4770, xeon e3) is the way to go, as it adds some 20% compared to 4670 at the same power consumption level and without the need for a big cooler and overclockingsyxbit - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
I have a haswell E3, and I bought it for a small home server.Why do you think they're popular for gaming PCs. They're very similarly priced to the equivalent i5/i7.
Ken_g6 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
How is the E3-1285 v4 in any way better than the E3-1285L v4? The latter costs less, has a higher base frequency, and a lower TDP. Or am I missing something?Also, an "E5" slipped through in one paragraph where I think you meant "E3".
XZerg - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
same thing i was wondering...kpb321 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I think the table must be wrong. The Model and TDP got swapped. The E3-1285 v4 makes sense as the E3-1285L v4 if you assume it should be 65w instead of 95w. Slightly slower base speed and higher price. Going the other way Higher base speed and 95w but slightly cheaper. Fits the way intel usually does the low power processor.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
It was less a swapping error and more a copy error. Either way, the table has been corrected. 1285 v4 is 3.5GHz, 1285L is 3.4GHz.kpb321 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Still need to fix the prices unless the E3-1285L v4 is actually cheaper than the E3-1285 v4. The prices on the E3-1258L v4 looks odd too. Why is it more expensive than the E3-1265L v4? It's slower, got crippled graphics and memory, no L4 cache and higher TDP but it's still more expensive?Ryan Smith - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
The 1285L is actually cheaper. I can confirm it's $445, versus $557 for the 1285.JohanAnandtech - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
The E3-1285L is cheaper... http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/INTC/0x0x83... . I know, it does not make sense to me either.Mr Perfect - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
The PCI-Passthrough sounds interesting. I'm assuming the host gets to use the GPU when the VM it's assigned to isn't running? It would be nice to have full access to the GPUs for old-game VMs.nils_ - Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - link
Well currently you'd have to enable a PCIe stub driver on the host system which prevents other components from accessing the GPU. You can even pass through other PCIe cards. This works with any system with an IOMMU (usually only Xeon/Opteron series).However, some network cards support "partitioning" the network adapter so that using a purpose built driver you can use part of the network card in the host while still preserving isolation. This could also be possible with GPUs in the future.
nils_ - Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - link
Correction, the latter is possible now with Intel GVT.dotted - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
>The Xeon enables ECC RAM support, VT-D and PCI-passthrough, something that the desktops chips obviously lack.Intel ARK disagrees. 5775C has VT-d
icrf - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Xeon-D "launched" a month ago, but is still kind of hard to find. It could just be that I'm not familiar with how server parts are launched and where they become available. Enough other server stuff pops up on Newegg/Amazon. I assumed these would, too. I'm just after a D-1540 no frills motherboard in the $800 range.ats - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Apparently there has been large bulk demand for the D-1540 from large deployment companies. And since these companies are ordering in such large quantities they are getting first crack at availability. Recently however, there has been availability on the market for the Supermicro solutions if sporadically.wintermute000 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
re: Xeon-D.... *shakes fist at cloud companies* just shut up and take my money!!!seriously though its pretty bad if the only way you can find a part is to pay through the nose on fleabay, and even then there's only one listing!!!
icrf - Friday, June 5, 2015 - link
Yeah, and that Supermicro X10SDV-F runs for $1,000 from affiliate/partner vendors right now. I'm hoping when the major lower margin, high volume retailers get it, it will be closer to $800. I mean, the CPU costs $581. I don't understand how a mini-itx board around it WITHOUT 10 GbE could possibly add $400.TomWomack - Monday, June 8, 2015 - link
My X10SDV-F board, which I ordered through a friend who runs a company with a Supermicro redistributor account, arrived this morning; should have it working by Wednesday (need to wait for SSD and case fan to arrive).nils_ - Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - link
They are still very hard to come by, and I have yet to see a board with SFP+ 10GbE to hit the market. Asrockrack announced something like that but it isn't even listed on their web site.jjj - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
So what is exactly the Intel HD Graphics P5700 , can't find how many EUs that would be.The die shot in the slide seems to have maybe 16EUs and looks about 83mm2 (my guess for the i7-5775C is 164mm2).
Interesting that they could make a quad with 8MB cache and no gpu inside 55-60mm2.
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Intel doesn't have any specifications that list the exact configuration. However all Broadwell GT2 parts have been 5000 series, and all GT3(e) parts have been 6000 series, so this is almost certainly a 23/24EU GT2 part, similar to the i7-5700HQ.jjj - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I know that they don't, checked before asking but that die shot is not what it should be so it's either cut or this one is smaller than 24EUs.TrevorH - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
The E3 chips still have the highest per core speeds of any of the Xeon line up.freeskier93 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
In other words, pick up the E3-1231 v3 while you still can for gaming!tipoo - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Yup. Sigh. Why do they have to cut out the option to buy an Intel CPU without paying the extra die size cost of the graphics? So wasteful if you never use them, if you have a discreet card.hansmuff - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
.. or a home server build that doesn't need the GPU. These new chips are $170-$200 over the 1231 v3, very expensive.ShieTar - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Seems obvious that they just do not want to replace Haswell by Broadwell, they keep selling it until Skylake comes out. Obviously the 14nm process is not all that well under control yet.nunya112 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
look at that the memory controller got a speed bump, now native speed for 1866mghz!! yes!! DDR3 1600 is too slow. and it looks like they are getting better with the northbridge on chip! Nice.I hope broadwell/skylake get the bump in memory freq as well. if not ill still grab a zeon lol
beginner99 - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Xeon-D might be better as server chip but not as workstation especially workstations that require high single-threaded performance. Here the higher clocks of the E3 are king.creed3020 - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
So ready for that Xeon-D review Johan!!I'm ready to switch out my LGA1366 home server with a Xeon-D based system. Will be awesome to go from full size ATX to mITX mobo at the same time for a more compact chassis. Running my VMs will be easy with 16 threads :()
JohanAnandtech - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
actually... will be postponing the virtualization testing to a later date, my apologies. It is so time consuming and hard to keep repetitive that I want to it in one big virtualization article instead of repeating that testing every time a new chip comes out. But all other tests will be included.nils_ - Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - link
It may be that this stuff is already integrated in Phoronix Test Suite, I remember a few benchmarks being posted (also comparing Xen, KVM and VirtualBox on the same hardware). Makes for easily repeatable benchmarks, although it doesn't support Windows or VMWare.hingsun - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
I AM DEARLY WAITING FOR THE E3 V4 SERIES, WITH THE IRIS PRO 6300 AS BASIC GRAPHIC, WHO NEED A SEPARATE WORKSTATION VIDEO CARD THAT ARE BELOW THE PERFORMANCE OF QUADRO K4000 OR AMD FIREPRO W5100 SERIES. ALL GOOD GRAPHICS THAT I DO CAN BE DONE AT NOT MORE THAN 200WATT FOR A COMPLETE SYSTEM WITH SSD RAID SETUP.nils_ - Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - link
You can also save a bit of energy by disabling Caps Lock which will safe a few mW for the LED.vladpetric - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
What kind of socket? Or is it board-soldered?ivan256 - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Intel has GVT. AMD still does not have an acceptable graphics virtualization answer to compete with this chip.syxbit - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
For a server to run Plex, these would be great!I have a TS140 w/ E3 1225 v3, so it's not worth the upgrade, but if I were in the market today, I'd get one.
nils_ - Thursday, June 11, 2015 - link
It is perhaps also worth noting that these CPUs come with TSX-NI enabled, a feature that so far only works on the E7 Series Xeon (Haswell EX).dbp - Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - link
When you consider Xeon D, don't forget you need a premium motherboard and premium DDR4 RAMITserverGuy - Wednesday, July 1, 2015 - link
For my oppinion the E3-1200 v4 especially the E3-1285 v4 would be a very nice Solution. Unfortunately until now i cant find a Serer Manufacturer where i can get such a Machine. Even the big german 5: Thomas Krenn, HP, DELL, Fujitsu and Servermeile had no Server until today.