Agree. As a device it is very compelling especially at that price point (i paid £480 for a 64gb ipad air 2 which could do pretty much nothing), however i'd only want one for the full functionality, and once you've paid out for that, it becomes quite a big argument as to whether you just pay the little more and go for the i3 sp3.
One week or 6 doesn't make much difference here. It would still be 20% which is excellent for anything used. What makes a difference is how close it is to the next release. It's not like a car with mileage, time of use doesn't make a big difference in price on these things. Condition does.
My sentiments exactly. I feel there's a very small number of people who "need" a tablet/laptop all-in-one and are willing to sacrifice the best of either world, for an average tablet/mediocre laptop. I might be generous calling it an average tablet, just because of the lack of apps compared to android and Apple. If you're not going to hit at an attractive price point, then I'm not sure of your expectations.
With the $600 model, plus type cover and dock pushing $930 plus tax, why not an HP Spectre x360 8GB/256GB for $999? Is the portability, really worth giving up that much CPU/SSD speed, and RAM/SSD capacity, better keyboard and larger screen?
Ikr. I just want to run my legacy Windows programs on a 10" screen using just my fingers. Can't do that on my sucky Samsung and Apple tablets. Who needs modern touch-friendly interfaces anyway...
Using legacy apps (which are still called programs) should be fine with the pen. Except for the high DPI display - depending on how legacy the app exactly is.
It runs touch-friendly modern apps (including Universal apps which will be getting a boost in the near future) as well as more traditional software. You can use just about any external accessory that you can with a regular PC. If you use the dock and a larger monitor this can even replace the desktop for many users. In many ways it is more versatile than the devices you mentioned.
Actually a lot of programs designed for mouse input (click and drag) work pretty well on a touchscreen Windows machine. The main problem is the buttons tend to be too small for fingers.
It would be great if Microsoft could have an option to magically enlarge GUI elements a bit when in touch mode.
When I say lack of apps, I mean as designed as portable tablet. That's what MS is touting, it's a tablet and laptop in one.
Of course it has tons of apps as a Win8/10 device, but if that's all you're really after, why buy something that straddles the line between laptop and tablet? Why not an XPS 13 or Spectre x360? Proportionally few of those Windows apps tend to run real well on a 10" touch screen with a resolution of 1920x1280.
It just seems to be in an odd place. I'm not sure what it does really well, other than its display. CPU/RAM/SSD are all compromised as a laptop and it's too expensive for what it does as a tablet. It's not "bad" by any means, I really do *want* to like it, it just doesn't seem to do the laptop thing well enough, be a tablet at a low enough price point. And I'm someone who would like to replace my iPad Air with something convertible like this. But if I'm going to buy a laptop that can also be used as a tablet, it's either going to have to have higher performance, or be cheap enough to not feel bad replacing in a couple years, and I don't feel either with this (particularly with accessories). I'm much more apt to get the i5/8GB/256GB HP Spectre x360 @$1,000, while more expensive, I feel much better about thinking about using for the next 5 years, compared to the Surface $600 + type cover + dock @ $930 and still has a tablet mode. The Surface Pro 3 is nice, but I'm not sure what it offers over the Spectre x360, at a sales price of ~$1,130 (retail $1,300), not to mention being a gen behind with Haswell still. If history is any indication, I will like the SP4 as a product, but probably not at it's price point.
If the base model included 4GB and/or they at least threw in the pen for free with certain combos, it'd be more enticing. It's still an attractive package for people who just want a secondary system, but a lot of those are just gonna end up with cheaper tablets or more capable laptops.
Even tho it's significantly cheaper than SP3, and it's exactly what a lot of people said the base Surface should've been all along, it still feels like less of a value proposition than SP3. Better storage and Type C might've made it more appealing...
As it is it feels too much like something they'll refine significantly for the next rev... Big EDU discounts could sway things tho. A simple $100 student discount would make it a $530-630 hybrid competing against $400-500 tablets and $750+ laptops, much better sweet spot.
Just curious, what apps are you missing one the Windows platform? For someone like me who would use this for work, I can't imagine an app that is not available that I would use. You mean it doesn't have the hundreds and thousands of useless apps that are in all markets? Always confused by this statement.
In order for it to be considered a good "tablet", it has to do all those things that tablets are known for. Apple and Android have this tremendously large ecosystem that many people are vested in and there's a huge selection for. Obviously "entertainment" apps are going to be useless for people who use this for work. Just like the "productivity" apps aren't useful for those who use it for entertainment, etc. Certainly, the Windows tablet is a better match for a certain type of productivity user like yourself, then a gamer per se. What a tablet has come to be, for many people though is a ubiquitous device that transcends both genres and I don't see that in the Windows platform. Not to mention the fact that Apple/Android tablet users are going to have a hard time switching over if they've invested a decent amount of money into their Apple/Android apps.
Like I said, I really want to like this device, but it just feels like too many compromises as a laptop and a mixed bag as a tablet. Does that mean that it's not a great device for some people? Absolutely not! I just don't see it doing one (laptop) or the other (tablet) well enough to break through mainstream and be a big seller at this price point. As other people have mentioned, if it were a lower price or included accessories or faster storage or Core-M instead of Atom were here, I would probably feel much different, but it's too many compromises as is.
I have an SP3 and it's big selling point over essentially everything you mentioned, the ability to actually make it a tablet. I don't need a keyboard strapped on the thing 24/7, nor do I want to put the keys in harms way when converted into tablet form.
I use it like a laptop when I hit my destination and I rip the keyboard off it, when walking around or having it put into my tablet mount in the car. If it were a convertible laptop, I probably would have lost a few keys by now.
There is a clear chasm nowadays between content consumers, and professional users. It seems that MOST people would be fine with a social media content device. The way I see it, the Surface line was made for engineers, designers, scientists, artists etc. If you're worried that the windows store might not have Snapchat, then please get yourself a nice android or ios phablet.
"...the Surface line was made for engineers, designers, scientists, artists etc...." Those people primarily use Macs, not Windows. Windows is for corporate-types who push spreadsheets around all day. :) Obviously I'm generalizing but I'm not that far off the mark.
If you're looking at a Windows tablet and honestly intend to use it as a tablet, then yes there is a remarkable lack of apps - I actually can't believe you would think otherwise. (have you used iOS or Android before??) If your primary goal is a professional/business device, then you're probably set - but you're also probably looking at the Pro model, not this one. So I think the app argument (for this device at least) is absolutely valid and relevant.
"Those people primarily use Macs, not Windows. Windows is for corporate-types who push spreadsheets around all day. :) Obviously I'm generalizing but I'm not that far off the mark."
This... And while some will point out that engineering and scientific organizations will be filled with Windows machines on desks and cubicles, that's a business decision to cut initial costs. The engineers and scientists' personal machines are more often then not Macs.
I'd say it's 50/50 Depends on the scientist and the area of research. I never understood the desire for macs and I'm a scientist. They are just sleek and fancy. Only (bio)informatics would benefit from the mac productivity wise. The rest, not so much. And they could do just as well with linux, just no linux tablets on the market ;). That said, the surface line runs ubuntu flawlessly as dual boot!
1. The dock is more of an optional accessory than anything. I don't know why you factor in the price of the Dock.
2. The HP Spectre x360 weigh 3.26 lbs. That's the weight of the Surface 3. If weigh and portability isn't a concern for you, why even get a laptop? Just get a desktop and you'll get even more for your money.
$599 model + keyboard and pen puts it at $780, i don't think anyone cares to much about the dock for the surface or any other laptop unless they use it for work and it is also powerful. But for $780 i think its a bit slow (despite the NAND being about twice as fast as the 64GB model) at about half the speed if not less at times, it is not worth it.
I would just pick up a UX305 with the Core M-5Y10 8GB/256GB for $699 like they said in the article. But if it was $499 for the 4GB/128GB model then i would have no problem recommending it as an option with caution. The surface pro 3 on the other hand i think is still a great PC.
I am a big fan of the UX305! But it really isn't comparable, for one the S3 is a tablet - and there are some good applications for having that pen. If you are going to compare it to the UX305, at least remove the pen from your comparison price to knock the price of the S3 down to $730.
I have a S3 Pro, and the reason I cannot go to something like the UX305 is that after using the 3:2 aspect ratio screen, I have a hard time coding on a 16:9 display with the lack of vertical space for code. I wish PC manufacturers didn't start using a video oriented aspect ratio for productivity machines :(
Asus also have Transformer Book T300 Chi for a tablet with the same specs as UX305 actually. I actually agree that Surface 3 is a pretty reliable tablet, but for the price, it will face some heavy competition to stay afloat.
I fail to see the appeal of access to apps that I don't need. With larger screens, higher resolutions, faster internet connections and more responsive websites, apps have become less relevant. And the stuff that is really useful to me is available for Windows.
Separate point: for serious work on location, I use a bluetooth mouse, something that can't be done with an iPad.
I think we (as people who are interested in surface 3/pro 3) are a different kind of user to people who would want an ipad or something to play with. We are professionals/content creators as opposed to content consumers.
I disagree. As battery life has become an ever more important consideration in our modern devices, legacy Windows programs are becoming ever more out of date with their ability to consume as many resources as they like, indefinitely. Add to that the poor UI, the lack of any notification system, the incompatibility with Connected Standby, etc. desktop programs are anchors dragging Windows down with them.
This is not something that I have encountered. I will always prefer a desktop for prolonged work. From a notebook and/or tablet I expect a mix of fun, convenience and productivity.
A Windows tablet will work with MS Office, iTunes, Netflix, Kindle, Google Play. I can look stuff up on Wikipedia, IMDb and so on. I haven't experienced any problem with cumbersome controls or poor battery life. A big advantage is that I can hook up a mouse, not something I can do with an iPad.
I do have an iPad Air and a Samsung Galaxy S. Both are great devices, but the new Surface models seem to offer more of everything. If I didn't need more than one tablet, I would probably choose the Surface.
I have a work SP3 and I feel the interface is very cumbersome when used as a tablet. I use Android for most anything else and I would barely call the SP3 a tablet. You quickly miss all the small things in Android like global multitasking, the back button, notification shade, quick settings, touch first UI and especially the lack of tablet apps.
Better performance is very subjective if comparing the iPad to the Surface 3. Personally, I would take a Surface for access to Windows, being the actual programs would be much better than the iOS app alternatives.
If all I was doing was videos and needed only light applications for work, than the iPad is not bad.
The IPad is ALWAYS going to be an inferior product regardless of use case.
1. For video/media consumption - you would have access to more media players, more content markets (than just the itunes store) and simply more choice overall.
2. For media/content creation - You do not even have this option (or intergrated well enough) on an IPad.
3. Basic office duties - We can all agree that any office applications on an IPad would be very watered down and frankly quite useless. If you have to buy a keyboard to access an application properly on an ipad, then my friend, I have news for you... your use case clearly aligns you to a surface 3.
An IPad is no where near up to par. You are getting a very big IPod Touch for your money. Don't give in to the marketing from Apple telling you you can be productive on an IPad.
No, just no. I could make a list 3 times as long as yours detailing the ways that an iPad is superior to any Windows tablet. And I own several iPads and two Surface Pros. Frankly I'm just tired of having to counteract this kind of FUD.
I have 3 iPads at home (first gen, 3rd gen, and Air) - and his list seems quite accurate to me. One reason I've started transitioning our children after they are 6 years old to Surfaces and/or Macs. I am a little sad at how much money we've wasted on iPads, I certainly will not be doing that any longer.
With our Macs and Surfaces, the children are actually learning how to do stuff and not be passive observers.
The only mental block I'm having right now is does Microsoft even have some sort of equivalent to iMovie? That's the one thing on the Mac side that I don't have a Windows-compatible equivalent for.
Better performance is arguable. Your mileage may very when it comes to battery life too. It's not only about the keyboard, it's what you can do with that keyboard (IE: iOS VS full Windows, and there's not comparison there). With Windows 10, it's practically game over when it comes to value.
It's the other way around. The iPad, and other Android tablets (I'm looking at you Samsung), should be priced way less if we're talking "value".
No. The iPad has better screen, apps designed for that screen, a much superior touch-based ecosystem, better SoC performance, 4g option, better battery life and so on. And people buy it because it doesn't run windows, too... It runs something else that is fun, simpler, and does the job, most of the time.
Still, i hope that with force touch Apple brings a superior pen-based solution. Because of the mentioned qualities, if the iPad adds what is seen as the surface and note line greatest advantages, it will be the equivalent of iPhones and bigger screens.
Please guys this tablet can not compare itself to an IPad or Android in the tablet space. Simple things like finding good replacement soft keyboards are severly lacking in the Metro store.
The performance of the atom is getting better as the GPU has vastly improved but cannot still match last years top tablets.
As for Full windows use your better off just getting a laptop, the included digitizer is a very good addition but thats a niche field at best.
Microsoft need to drastically lower the price of this tablet if they want it too succeed or throw in the touch cover and pen.
And trying to intice Android and IOS developers is just showing how lacking Windows store is.
I have an iPad can't really compare windows to iOS or android. When I want do some reading in bed I reach for my tablet when I want to do some real work I get my pc. Both iOS and android flourished because they were cheap quick n easy and there was really no Windows alternative with equivalent specs and power. No one said the windows store was awesome I also had a windows phone it sucks.tablets have always left me wanting to be able to do more. iPads are significantly underpowered and still don't multitask properly! Now with the opportunity to get rid of the iPad\laptop and run it from one device ....yes I will be doing that when the SP4 comes out.
Actually in many regards the Surface 3 has the superior display. Sorry! Also in terms of SoC performance, the CPU side of the x7 is great and very competitive. If you're looking for 3D performance it's not as impressive but this would not be the best device for that workload - you'd be better off with a laptop/hybrid or a Surface Pro!
"And people buy it because it doesn't run windows, too."
Increasingly people don't buy the Ipad if the plummeting sales are any indication. My iPad stay on the sofa for basic web browsing, email and videos. Anything else I have to get my laptop for, becuase the iPad is basically pretty useless. And having recently bpought a cheap Android tablet to carry to work to watch movies on, I have realised that an iPad offers nothing that a cheap Android tablet can't do. I will never buy another iPad, it is just an overpriced toy. I wil buy a Surface though as it can actually replace my laptop for almost every task.
The iPad is showing its lack of utility even in Apple's lineup, where large phones handily do most of the stuff an iPad used to be relied upon, and cheap tablets do web browsing as well as an iPad. Tablets are great for families, but why buy a $500 tablet for your child, when devices that can do almost as well are available for much, much less - and your children are unlikely to care too much whose logo is on the device?
Apple is in trouble with the iPad, they need to either update the OS or come up with something killer for it.
In contrast, my family can use a Windows machine for all sorts of stuff - from programming (my 10 year old son is programming now), all the way to playing games on Steam. So, why iPad? Seems superfluous.
I wouldn't call the 'slack' quarter sales of 17 million iPads 'trouble for Apple'. They sold more iPads then every Surface sold in aggregate, since its birth....last ¼ Alone! And that's six months post release. I like the SP3 Pro, I think MS nailed it. Surface 3 looks like a very nice step forward. That said, Apple HAS updated the OS and as an ambidextrous user or both Windows and OS X, I've found the continuity/handoff features built into iOS 8/OS X 10.10 to easily be the biggest advancement in some time --- especially between devices; phone, tablet and desktop or notebook. Funny thing, I've got a ten year old as well. Also coding right now --- and I'm learning with him. He's building a cross platform app for his science fair. He's coding on iOS only. Although he's got access to the iMac and MacBook Air, he's much happier learning both Objective C/Swift on iOS, using the free university lectures, notes and information along with a couple very excellent 'touch' coding 'apps'
It's funny to listen to rehashed arguments about the iPad and how it's for the couch potato only. I've flown 22 hours since Saturday morning, around Alaska with tourists looking to fish, shoot stills or motion, capture audio or wrap production in other areas of the state. My iPad is my kneeboard; plans my flights and files my plans, distributes weight and balance of the A/C, shows me real time weather, traffic, and up to date Jep charts and plates. It's been invaluable as a 'display' for small field edits, using as a remote viewfinder to capture sketchy wildlife and there's never a concern with battery life.
I do enjoy reading on the iPad, creating, invoicing clients or paying my utilities. I can take calls, use MS Office (whoever said it's a stripped version obviously hasn't used iOS Office, it's amazing!) Dropbox or iCloud, Box or Google Drive (I've found many Google apps to be better on iOS than my Android devices, currently using a Note 4), as well a plethora of powerful apps like iMovie, GarageBand, Pages Numbers and Keynote...all optional, none are bloated. iOS takes up a ½ dozen GBs, not two dozen! And if the RT3 suffers this much graphically, there's a LIMIT on 'all those X86' programs that actually WILL run on the rig Sure, you'll be able to run CS3 efficiently and it sounds like games from a decade ago might work, but Iike the iPad, you're not gonna be manipulating 50megapixel Raw images nor creating killed effects in AE or transcoding video any faster. There's a trade off either way and IMHO, it's cool to see this significant a jump in performance on the new RT I was also impressed with the SP3. That said, the iPad Air 2 is one helluva tablet at one pound and using TCAS and ADS-B with three dimensional moving maps with weather and traffic, GPS and nav aids that were easily 50-60 pounds for each pilot to carry around or avionics to add... Now in less than a one pound package, it's definitely NOT in trouble. I think it's such an excellent device --- my original as well as iPad 2 are working great and the kids love them...most folks aren't updating them like phones. They're still selling nearly a 100,000,000 a year! That's hardly trouble. Even if the slip YoY spooks you, just remember how many are already out there, that the mini is only two and half --- 1 ½ with retina, and the Air 2 was the tick. Not that tock...yet they've managed to sell more in their worst quarter than every other tablet manufacturer combined! (Not to mention their mind blowing 6 & 6s sales, I'm sure their just fine canabalizing their own iPad sales with 6 and 6+ sales which are also pocket computers). Times have changed and 'most' folks have everything they need in today's tablets. Today's smartphones. Regardless of which OEM they've decided on. Once they're happy, it's kind of a pain to 'change over' and these are extremely personal devices when compared to the home computer
Sorry about the length. But I enjoy and love using both OS X and (one of about six or seven dolts that enjoy using) Win 8.1. I've also used Android since 08 (still have my Xoom!) and iOS since '07. I currently use a Note 4 and 6+. Biz. Personal. As much as I enjoy Windows, OS X is certainly the 'go to OS' in our house.
Not to mention, OS X comes complete with training wheels for someone like romprak. It's called Bootcamp and you're welcome to install any OS you'd like. Unlike Windows.
That's not performance, that's functionality. If the exact same chip magically supported dual-booting x86 Win10, I'm sure it would do slightly better. That's not the power of Atom, though. It wasn't designed to blow everything else out of the water. (I'm sure it'll get better power characteristics on heavy load tests, for instance, because of its conservative power use.)
What it all boils down to: This is a great device. It's different than an iPad, though, and different people will need different things from it. I feel a premium tablet can live at $500-$600, but a slightly-compromised tablet that runs Windows and is only truly complete with a $120 accessory will need to sweeten the deal to have obvious value to the common consumer.
It's a close game, but Surface needs a nudge. I suppose it'll get that in a couple months when it goes on sale for a bit.
While the surface 3 is more capable than an ipad. A new ipad runs 100% of ipad software perfectly. Surface 3 is low on cpu/gpu/ram/disk for much of the desktop experience that it enables.
This thing is already $100 cheaper than a 128GB Air 2, does WAY more, has more memory, etc. How cheap is cheap enough? Would you really want them to sacrifice something like build quality, screen quality, or other necessities to reach a price point lower than this? They do have to stay in business after all. Running full Windows in the tablet space is completely unheard of and adds far more than $50 worth of value to this product compared to its competition.
There are folks who will defend Apple to the hilt for the way they charge for extra storage, but then claim that Microsoft is pricing the Surface 3 too high. This is a premium device, made of quality materials, with a quality screen, and runs full 64-bit Windows, with real ports (USB and Displayport), with expandable storage. I think it is priced very reasonably. I think if they could drop the keyboard to $99, I think that would make a difference in perception. $129 stretches comfort perhaps a bit too far and gives sticker shock.
Unfortunately, they are not simply competing with iPad in the market. They are also competing with other Windows Tablet/Hybrid devices. When compared to what a PC does better, there a more than a few Windows Tablet/Hybrid devices that can perform better than a Surface 3 for around the same price. When compared to what a Tablet does better, there is iPad and other plethora of Android tablets available which can perform better than a Surface 3 for around the same price.
I actually like the Surface 3 really, but it seems that it is somewhat stuck in the middle by not excelling in anything compared to other competing products. Maybe, a faster internal storage can actually help to boost performance, but right now, maybe it's a product that doesn't suit me well enough.
Great review! It would be nice to ask Microsoft about the battery life. They promiss around 10 hours of video playback, and you got much less (and also much less that other reviewers, that got at least 1 hour more than you).
I'd bet anything they were using Chrome for the tests, aside from the fact its a front for free data mining for that Ad company, its a horrible battery drain on these mobile devices.
For tablet mode, I used Modern IE, and for notebook it was desktop IE.
I spoke to some other people who have tested the device, and they were testing it at a lower brightness level which is going to impact the battery life a lot since the display is the main power draw.
Jarred Walton once tested the state of video playback in relation to battery drain on Windows. VLC is the Chrome of video players. The most power efficient video players are the video app(modern) and the tried and true windows media player(in this order).
Thanks for the clarification :-), but what about the software for video playback and the video format? As other said, it can affect quite a lot the result.
One would wish Intel would just license the Mali GPUs or PowerVR designs. Even with 14nm they cannot keep up with Nvidia, Apple or any of the faster Adreno or Mali 760 SoCs. Also there doesn't seem to be any improvements. Their GPU design is not very power efficient and seemingly not even die space efficient but there are no real noticeable improvements between Gen 7 and 8. They should just go back to licensing or just buy Imagination Technologies.
AMD is faster, but at the cost of power and efficiency. And it still won't give you a good gaming experience, because there's not enough of everything in APUs.
Intel is slower, but gets the job done with regards to video, there was no question of it being gaming capable in the first place.
Efficiency isn't AMD's fault. Intel's had the process lead for more than 2 generations now and they're STILL not even close to AMD's GPU performance... We'll see how efficient Intel's GPU is when AMD goes 14nm....
That is a weird statement. Whose fault is it then? You're right about one thing though, AMD is woefully behind Intel. I wish it wasn't so, but I don't see AMD making any real progress soon.
At this point efficiency is king and Intel with their 'mobile first' philosophy is now becoming a viable alternative for the mobile market. Sadly I don't think that AMD has the budget to compete.
If we're talking efficiency, then ARM is king IMHO. The upcoming custom ARMv8 designs should give Intel a run for their money. AMD's Zen cores were developed with mobile first in mind with supposed great single threaded performance. It'll be interesting to see how things fold out. Too bad we'll have to wait a year at least for that.
I should have been more specific though. I should have said that it wasn't "entirely" AMD's fault since process nodes of other fabs haven't been up to par. It'll be interesting to see AMD's Zen at 14nm vs Intel's Skylake at 14nm.
Oh, forgot to say that the initial point was about GPUs. Even with a process lead, Intel still can't come up with a decent GPU, even compared with ARM SoCs.
Do Mali or PowerVR GPUs support DX at all? And if so, how good the support is? Last time I checked there were big issues with PowerVR Windows drivers. I'm not sure if these GPUs has any good support for something other than OpenGL ES. I guess the missing features are the reason that these GPUs are so "efficient".
According to the specs http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-perfor... Mali T760 supports OpenGL 3.1 and DirectX 11. Since Dx12 does not need different hardware that should be in the cards too. They all run the Windows mobile version so drivers are available. And features are all there. Intel is just not doing a very good job. Considering the money and resources Intel has they really should do better.
According to the specs PowerVR GPUs also supports DX since series 5. They claimed DX 10.1 compatibility for sgx 545. I had netbook with Atom N2600 and it was the worst experience I ever had with laptops because of broken windows GPU drivers and non existing Linux drivers. I doubt that the situation with Mali or Adreno is any better. In fact, Intel does have new atoms with PowerVR GPUs (z35xx) but haven't hear about any planned windows device which are using these atoms. The reason is known...
Sure but I mean clock for clock, eu for eu. It is 16 eu against formerly 4. Of course it is faster but that is a lot of die space even on 14nm. Where are differences like Kepler vs. Maxwell or AMD 290X vs the last GCN. Those just get more speed out of each execution unit. The faster Broadwell also only increase execution units but there should be plenty of other improvements possible before they catch up to the competition's efficiency. A lot of the Mali "tricks" can even be easily licensed.
"One would wish Intel would just license the Mali GPUs or PowerVR designs"
They already use both of them in other chips. What Intel should do is buy Imagination, they would get the PowerVR IP which would improve Atom GPUs, it would give them leverage over Apple (who I guess are still some way off having their own GPU design) and they would get MIPS which they could develop as their ARM killer in the smartphone space.
I think Cherry Trail will be great in a low power PC for surfing net and some HTPC duties. Anyway, I am not sure if the poor battery life is a result of the SOC or Windows as well. I believe Windows is not exactly a very power friendly OS in the first place if you are using it all the time.
Could you put a couple of the older Surface Pro's in the comparison chart? Especially purchasing on the used market they're definitely comparable at this point!
Is there any way I could compare this directly with something running a 2 generation old Clovertrail Atom? I looked in Bench, but the Surface 3 is only listed in laptops, so I can't compare it against the ASUS VivoTab Smart on the tablet page; and the huge sea of undifferentiated laptop model numbers makes finding something from the right generation in the laptop dropdown nearly impossible.
Could I bootstrap an approximate comparison via an intermediate aged device. ex Surface 3 is X times faster than Foo, Foo is Y times faster then Clovertrail; so Surface 3 is about X*Y times faster than my old clovertrail powered tablet/netbook.
Interesting product with potential but Microsoft still continues to miss the mark. Running full Windows on a device with 2GB RAM and 64GB HDD is just a setup for disappointment. Sure day 1 performance may be adequate but within a few months after installing some software that thing will run like a dog with no storage.
The model to go for is the 4GB RAM 128GB HDD. Problem is @$599 + $130 keyboard you are looking at $730. At that price there are too many options in the market for a much more powerful device. And STILL NO PEN STORAGE!!
If Microsoft would wake up and figure out a way to bundle the keyboard with the device for no extra $$$$ then these things would be no brainer instant buys.
Why stop there? Microsoft should just give away the device for free. Think of the sales then!
Granted Microsoft should sell the keyboard cover at $99 instead of $129, but there are actual costs involved. Forgoing margin is one thing, selling things at a loss is another. Microsoft isn't going to lose money selling something just because some people would think it nice.
BTW The 128 GB iPad is $700 and does not include a keyboard or even the option of adding a pen.
Yes there are costs involved, but we both know that keyboard is costing them a tiny fraction of the asking price. I personally think it's a ridiculous strategy to make up your margins with massively overpriced add-on's, doubly so when you're desperate for market share and that accessory is one of your best differentiating point.
I've been saying this over and over again, the Surface is a tablet first and foremost. It gives you added value in being capable of replacing your laptop if you don't lots of performance.
It doesn't even include the pen, there's another $50. So $780 to really get the whole experience. This is an Apple-esque priced device.
This was the Surface I had been waiting for, I'm happy with the Atom X7 performance, I like the size and the weight, but the storage performance is unacceptable. When it's upwards of $800 with lousy charging and storage performance, I'll wait to see what the Surface Pro 4 has to offer or wait another year till this thing gets refreshed.
Yeah, the complete package with tax for me was $824. I actually was not going to buy it and then a deal came up that made it more reasonably priced.
I'm sure this thing costs quite a bit to make considering the precision and components involved. But to me, at a glance, this shouldn't be above $600 complete.
Comparatively? This is the BEST value tablet out there as is. 64GB and 2GB of RAM are plenty for most folks buying this as a tablet first, laptop second.
I'm not exactly sure what makes your computer "slow down" after a period of time except for crappy software and huge list of startup programs (ie BLOATWARE). I disable anything running in startup from the task manager. Nothing "needs" to be starting automatically when you start Windows unless you use the device solely for that app/program. I've installed Windows 7 in late 2009 and NEVER formatted or reinstalled Windows, nor had it slowing down because of software...
These eMMC drives might be comparatively "slow" but they're a heck of a lot better than any cheap consumer HDD out there in most laptops sold. Brett Howse is probably used to using SSDs exclusively, most people aren't. UFS might have been super though.
"These eMMC drives might be comparatively "slow" but they're a heck of a lot better than any cheap consumer HDD out there in most laptops sold. "
Not true. 33MB/s sequential write is much slower than even a cheap laptop HDD, which will be doing 80MB/s at the very slowest (and usually >100MB/s). 33MB/s is like an external hard drive over USB2.0, which can be quite laborious to use.
Wouldn't you think that random speed not only makes up for that, but also makes it seem much faster in real life scenarios compared with HDDs?
Anyway, UFS should make the gap much wider in future products. Samsung and others are working on super cheap modules. SSDs aren't needed in most segments.
Yes, it is better in random access than a cheap laptop HDD. But I don't know if that's the only thing that matters. It's unbalanced, just like the early SSDs were. The early SSDs were unreasonably slow in random write, and this is unreasonably slow in sequential write.
As to which is more essential to feel "fast," I think that may be in the eye of the beholder. Yes, this eMMC may have some snappiness to it due to quickness in random access, so it won't get slowed to a clickety-clackety crawl by a virus check, for example. But it's probably painfully slow to complete tasks we're not accustomed to waiting for (sequential). That may be what the reviewer is pointing out, that storage seemed to be a bottleneck.
Mechanical HD and eMMC is not even at the same level when it comes to which feel "faster". Random access is far more important for everyday use, which make eMMC superior in very close to 100% of the use cases.
Random access performance of small sizes at low queue depth is what a disk targeting interactive usage should optimize for.
Really? For a full-blown Windows install? How would you know?
You're not making a fair comparison. Remember this thing runs full Windows 8.1. The whole purpose is that people can use their standard desktop applications. You can't just think of the speedup from a typical HDD to a typical SSD. You'd have to cripple the sequential access to make the assessment.
When was the last time you used an external SSD over USB 2.0 as your boot and programs install drive, to test your hypothesis? Or how about a microSD card as your boot drive? How slow would it be to fire up Microsoft Word? How about opening up a large video file? What about a file copy? You're not used to waiting for the sequential aspects of any of those because they're almost always >100MB/s, even on a cheapo 5400 rpm HDD.
I don't know, man. Here in Germany the Surface 3 64 GB is 10% more expensive than the iPad Air 2 with 64 GB. And I would never call an iPad 'good value', though it will likely hold its value better than the Surface. The Surface has the perk of running full Windows, but without a keyboard, I don't see anybody getting much use out of the desktop. I personally still find the S3 pretty enticing, if only for the Stylus, which is another Apple-priced add-on. But I would call it good value, not to speak of "best value".
Ok, but how many tablets do you know can do what the Surface 3 can at that price?
I do agree that the accessories are on the overpriced side, but don't forget that they aren't the only accessories that work with this device, and it doesn't *need* them to deliver on its promise. I personally wouldn't be using it as a "laptop replacement" on the go, but at home or in the office, I'd connect it to a bluetooth/wireless mouse/keyboard and an external monitor if necessary...
This device works great for any type of media consumption since it's capable of running/viewing just about anything. It's also great for Office at home, or for your average secretary, assistant, HR, and sales employee for work. It's one of a kind device for these purposes.
I have an original PRO and I use onenote on it religiously. Its replaced paper notebooks for me. I'm actually thinking about getting the S3. The pen is awesome. Marking up docs is great. Hand writing rec even works on my writing and I write right handed now bc of an injury. whether I'm at a tech conference or just at work, the device is awesome. My buddy has the S3 Pro and I drool about getting one. Thing is I have the dock, keyboard and what not already so I'm reluctant to buy again. I dont however need the power I have in the PRO. The regular S3 would work great.
I forgot to add, I dont see the desktop much on the PRO. I use it in tablet mode. Keyboard only gets snapped to it when i'm on the road bc its more than enough computing power. At my desk when docked i have an external monitor and kb mouse. With Windows 10 on it now, wow, so much better!
I initially wasn't going to buy but if you purchase through the Microsoft store you can get a 10% .edu discount and also use the 5% Microsoft discount you get by texting. My total came out to be ~$675 which included the 4/128, Type cover, pen, and tax.
Did you look at the Thinkpad 10, when Lenovo has one its sales you can get the 4/128 with a 'real' keyboard for about $550. Admittedly one gen behind this on atom but not bad and seems to aim at quite a similar usage.
I use MS Office plus iTunes and Kindle on a cheap Windows tablet from Acer with 2GB ram plus a 32GB ssd and everything runs just fine. I specifically wanted a 2GB tablet for testing purposes and I'm impressed how well it works.
I think some folks haven't realised that you DON'T have to carry around all your software and data ALL the time. Some of us work pretty light. My work laptop has hardly any user data on it at all. It all goes up the cloud. Software wise it has Office 2013, Firefox/Chrome and a couple of other bits and bobs and that's it. All sits on around 25GB on a 120GB SSD. Folks are weighing themselves down far too much. Take a serious look at what you really need/use.
True. I had to make the transition as well. I used to fill up hard drives with clutter. I changed my attitude for a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is that wanted to work more efficient.
On my desktop games take up space, but games can be removed and later re-installed from Steam or another similar service.
The GPU in the Surface 3 is really not enough to play most games, and even on our value settings, the Surface 3 is not a great experience for DOTA 2. The higher TDP of Core M lets it do ok in this test, but overall the Surface 3 is a long way back of even the Surface Pro 3 Core i3.
poor Intel, 2015 and still not able to provide a gpu decent to play a game, guess what Intel look at the market, all kids use tablets these days to play games, none will ask for a x86 based one...unless they have stupid parents still just going for the jingle. but then again the market of mobile games is flood by ARM based games, way to late for mobile windows based things..
Hmm... I wonder how much I could sell my XPS12 for. It is a great little laptop, but way overkill for what I do. About the hardest thing I run is Cisco Packet Tracer, and I imagine that the 4GB version of the Surface 3 would do that just fine. Everything else is office and web browsing.
The keyboard on the XPS12 would be rather difficult to give up though. Best typing experience I have ever had on a laptop, and I rather hate the SP3 keyboards.
Patience my friend, patience. I just tested Wi-Fi on battery while streaming to a bluetooth speaker and I got roughly the same peak performance. Maybe just a hair slower but these tests always involve some amount of variance anyway.
There was a promotion here in Thailand last week which they gave away the type cover away for every SP3, and some dealer also give away the dock for higher models. It was a tough choice but I decided to get the core i3 Pro instead of waiting for this, and I don't regret it.
It'd be better if it come with a standardized power port and larger SSD though (64GB is too limitted for Windows, and all MS applications are space hugry).
If you get the chance to update the review with the higher end 4GB version of Surface, I would love to see those numbers. With 2 GB RAM, it seems that we're not seeing the full picture of what the Atom chip is capable of as memory limitations come into play. I have a Bay Trail Dell Venue Pro 11 w/ 2 GB RAM and more intensive web surfing becomes a hassle, likely due to RAM limitations. Would love to see what an Atom + 4 GB RAM is capable of.
Also i think the 2GB model is actually running Single Channel ram, crippling 3D results, notebookcheck did a review of the 4GB model and it gets +100 points on 3dmark11.
What browser did you use for your web browsing battery life tests? On my Surface Pro 3, I get 1-2 hours less battery life with Chrome than I do with Firefox with identical extensions installed. On IE without any extensions at all, it's even better.
I have a Winbook tablet (poor man's surface) and after I installed Chrome, IE will not run in modern mode anymore. It will only run in desktop mode, and doesn't even bring up the touch keyboard, which makes it unusable. Chrome works fine in desktop mode, but not IE...
I'd like to know what it's supposed to mean that sales of the Surface Pro 3 "have been very strong"? Total sales from that, including the keyboards, have been just $732 million last quarter, indicating no more than a total of 700 thousand in the quarter. That's anything but strong, not to mention very strong. I'm not even sure if that's more, or less, than it was last year's quarter, yoy.
Perhaps we need a better definition of what strong, and very strong, means when compared to other major tablet vendors.
Sales were up 40% YoY I believe, and Microsoft went on record some time a quarter or two ago saying that the SP3 had made the division profitable for them.
If the Surface Pro 3's main competitor is the MacBook Air, then that should be the sales benchmark, not tablets. Apple sold around 4.5 million Macs in total for its most recent quarter - so that includes all Airs, Pros, desktops, etc.
If as you math'd Microsoft sold ~700k Surface Pro 3s, that seems pretty good compared to the record-highest number that Apple has ever sold of all Macs put together, considering that the SP3 still isn't sold in as many countries, is still a relatively new entry, and has the public taint of Windows 8 on it.
In the Dec quarter Surface sold over 1m units versus the 1.5m-2m MacBook airs that Apple sold in the quarter. I would call that a fantastic performance.
In the last quarter Surface revenue grew 46%, versus Mac revenue growing 2% and iPOAd revenue falling a staggering 28%. Again I would call that a fantastic performance!
For a product that Microsoft is forced to price at a premium (or risk alienating its OEM cusotmers even more), it is selling exceptionally well.
Yes, the charging connector on past Surface devices has been finicky (though I've never used a Surface 2 or Pro 3 myself), but with the design of Microsoft's charging cords all keeping the cord parallel with the device, I couldn't imagine being limited to a non-reversible connector like this one is.
Depending on how I'm sitting/positioning the Surface Pro 2 on my lap or desk, sometimes cord up is far more convenient and sometimes cord down is. Not having that choice would be a huge pain with this cord design, and so I'm a little surprised that Microsoft didn't at least change away from that sort of design with microUSB as their connector.
Nice review Brett, great background info for those that were unaware of the evolution the Surface non-Pro has undergone. I was initially optimistic about the Surface RT, but once I found out its limitations I was one of the many that asked for an Atom-based x86 replacement to fill in that low-end gap to bring Surface's great design and interface to the masses.
Now that we have it, it is certainly a nice device but I don't feel the price point is low enough, nor the performance good enough, to wow the masses. We will see, but it doesn't look like Cherry Trail was much of an advancement over previous Bay Trail, which is coming up on 2 years old. Maybe if MS included the Stylus (a net minus over the Pro) and/or the type pad, it would be a better deal, but with the various specials and incentives Microsoft typically offers even on new Surface parts, there is hope for this part yet.
A question about connected standby and hibernation: Microsoft's documentation state that hibernation is entered only with critically low battery level (and this level is configurable using the advanced power settings). This match my experience on two different Win8.1 tablets (HP Stream 7 and Dell Venue 11 Pro 7000).
On the other hand, on your review you stated that Surface 3 enter hibernate after "some hours" of idling in connected standby.
Is the Surface 3 behaving differently than other Win8.1 tablets (and from Microsoft own documentation?)
The Web Browsing battery test is baffling to me. How can it possibly be LESS than a SP3? Atom processor, smaller screen, lower resolution. I don't get that one at all.
That gulf will probably grow as well with the rumors SP4 may have a Core M variant. Cherry Trail is a bit disappointing though, not a huge increase in performance and this S3 actually has worst battery life than some of its Bay Trail predecessors like the Asus T100.
Even more telling is the next slowest device in most of your tests is the $79 HP Stream 7, and while the Surface 3 certainly has more going for it in terms of form factor and functionality, a sub-$100 device is going to get a lot of passes where a $500 might not.
That battery is the ultimate symbol of greed. Like they couldnt eat an extra $6 to give the thing a respectable battery. We need some explanation as to what exactly is the bottleneck in a game like DOTA 2. The <20 fps is extremely disappointing. but is it the GPU or the anemic CPU cores that hold it back? And why didnt they at least double the L1? Talk about greed.
"I’m not sure if we have found a “perfect” aspect ratio for a tablet"
One aspect ratio would be nearly perfect for almost every use, if only tablet manufacturers would make a tablet at that aspect ratio. That nearly perfect ratio is 2^0.5 : 1 (about 1.414 : 1).
1) A program designed to fill the screen at 2^0.5 : 1 would also perfectly fill half the screen at 1 : 2^0.5/2 (which is still 1.414 : 1 when rotated). Finally, we could have distortion-free multi-tasking with no extra programming needed, an issue that no tablet has really yet solved.
2) It is a natural-feeling aspect ratio, not too tall or too narrow. No "narrow video" warnings needed. Webpages that haven’t been converted to mobile would still work well. It would have good hand feel.
3) It is almost exactly A4 paper ratio (1 : 1.41421 vs 1:1.41428). A4 is the standard paper for 2/3rds of the world. Thus a Word document, PDF, or similar would fill the screen uncropped. It isn't far off from from the US 11:8.5 paper standard either.
4) It is pretty much in the middle of the 4:3 digital camera and 3:2 DSL camera aspect ratios. That means when using the camera to see photos, it will look good with minimal cropping or black bars.
>Having the third position really helps in a lot of situations, and while I would have liked the >final one to open as wide as the Surface Pro 3,
There is actually a fourth position. Give it a good shove and it collapses even flatter. Not sure if this is a genuine position or a manufacturing fail safe though!
The big Curry's on Tottenham Ct Road has a demo unit out. Had stickers on saying "property of Microsoft not sale stock" so presumably its a pre-release date demo unit. Yeah I was surprised to see it too!
Proprietary connectors only suck when they are easy to break and hard to replace. That said, micro USB connectors also suck on these devices, because they're also easy to break and hard to replace.
The magnetic reverseable connector on previous surface devices was perfectly fine. They were hard to break and easy to replace. Basically, the side that broke most often was either the cable or brick, which is much cheaper to fix or replace compared to the device itself.
As it seems with most devices these days, my main concern is with battery life.
What I really want it to be is an iPad replacement that also happens to be a full PC. I'm fine with the price point (an 128gb iPad Air 2 without a case/keyboard is $700,) I'm fine with the performance (I will play games on it, but stuff that it can handle. SimCity 3000, Baldurs Gate, Out of the Park Baseball, stuff like that,) and the form factor is small enough to feel like a tablet but big enough to be able to do most "full" PC things on it.
It just seems like whenever I look at devices anymore, I'm disappointed in the battery life. So I guess either my expectations are too high, device makers don't care as much about battery life and skimp on it, or maybe a little of both. If this thing could manage the battery life of an iPad Air 2, it would dare I say, be about as "perfect" of a device as I could find for what I want to do with it. For many years to come at least when things this size can run newer, more advanced games.
I have the bundle pre-ordered from Costco that is the 4gb/128gb/Pen/Keyboard combo for $700, and I'm very much looking forward to trying it out. If the battery life isn't a disappointment, I imagine I will love it.
This is a bulky and very heavy (622 g) mid range tablet and they want 500$ for it.Plus 129 $ for crappy keyboard. And it runs Windows, M$ will never get tablet apps going before tabs are dead. A crippled tablet and a crippled netbook merged into something nobody needs. Some might think they need it but that's only because they don't know any better and you are not helping them. How hard you try to sugarcoat the pref is also rather hilarious. In GPU you go as far as flooding the reader with synthetic benchmarks (decades of PC benchmarking improvements down the drain) just to hide the single gaming perf numbers at the end. I thought that after Anand left , the site is regaining some of it's lost objectivity but i guess you are still full steam ahead when it comes to "supporting" certain industry players. Who payed for that trip to M$'s event last week?
Yes, and you don't sound biased in any way whatsoever. "Bulky and very heavy" in comparison to what, exactly.
You're choosing to classify it as a "tablet," can you give an example of a tablet with a similar form factor that is smaller, lighter, and cheaper that runs full Windows?
Bulky and very heavy in compared to the vast majority of tablets. Do the math if you want for screen area per volume. How exactly is running Windows on 64GB of NAND and 2GB of RAM an advantage? If you are gonna just do Office and web browsing then you certainly don't need Windows. If yo want more, then you need more than this.As for the AR, it doesn't matter much and it's actually M$ trying to copy Apple and going just slightly different to not be called a clone. Pricing wise you can do 2x better.
- $450 for tablet/keyboard combo vs $630 for tablet/keyboard combo. - 1.3 lbs vs 1.4 lbs. - 1920x1080 vs 1920 x 1280. - Same 2 GB RAM. - Same 64 GB storage. - Same full Windows. - Z3775 vs Z8700 (the only advantage Surface 3 has).
Is it worth spending ~$200+ for the Atom x7? In my opinion, no not really.
I own an Air 2 and, albeit quite light, please remember the weight of the previous iPads that people were perfectly happy with. The moment you try do anything other than mess around, with an ipad, that's where it starts to fall apart, Even text editing can be a painful experience.
All I see in your post is bios that's finding ANYTHING to slam a perfectly acceptable product. I've pre-ordered the S3 and, although I do own the Air, the S3 will do FAR more than the Air can ever do. Heck... I'd like to copy comics to the Air but... Nope, have to jailbreak or email.
It's more than fast enough, the battery life is adequate, the price is equivalent to an iPad Air 2 (and you get more for your money), and how isn't it a tablet again?
But I'm sure you came into this with a totally unbiased viewpoint in the first place.
Very inclined to finally replace my old ThinkPad Tablet 2 with Surface 3.
Better battery life would be good, but close to 8 hours of tablet-mode browsing and video watching should do.
In addition, I love how kickstand works on SP3 and it's presence - even in simplified form - makes big difference for me. Looking at scores, this might even be able to handle some light Lightroom work - the most demanding task I have for my laptop at present - so it could fully integrate my tablet and laptop needs, leaving me with tablet and desktop only. One device less to update, charge, maintain, buy in a first place - sounds good to me.
In my opinion, it's too heavy compared to a iPad Air 2 or so. And it's too expensive: Its starts at 599€ in Germany, the Pro variant only costs 90€ more.
Thanks for the review, Brett. No more nagging from me. ;)
The one thing I am missing is the Dolphin benchmark. Were you unable to run that?
As far as the S3 itself goes; while I cancelled my preorder for it, I only did so because I was able to get a good deal on a Core i5 SP3 on ebay. For the price, it's still a lot more capable than a comparably priced iPad, and I wouldn't have been sorry to have it. And iPads still don't have a built-in way to prop themselves up, which I consider an indispensable feature nowadays. I am disappointed that the storage is a bit on the slow side given that we have some pretty fast eMMC (not to mention UFS) nowadays. And the battery life results are a bit worrisome.
Dolphin benchmark on this thing? Believe me when I say this, my old Core i7-860 couldn't run Dolphin that well, save for a very few select games, and it's one of the reasons I upgraded to a Core i7-4790K last September. The Atom x7-z8700 is nowhere near the performance of the Core i7-860, and much is closer to the Core 2 Duo SU-7300 that was in the Asus UL30Vt that I had around the same time I built my Core i7-860 in early 2010. There's no question, this thing will suck running the Dolphin benchmark.
I'm actually getting a Surface 3 myself, but it's definitely not for running the Dolphin emulator.
This was the tablet I was waiting for, except it isn't. The choice of Atom over Core M is unacceptable to me, so as hard it was to wait for an iPad-sized device to bring full Windows, I will have to pass.
The 64gb doesn't bother me but the 2gb of ram seems like its just cutting corners. Price goes up way to fast once you add on the accessories. They shouldn't be charging for the pen.
Ya think? I just checked MacMall.com, and I can get a 2015 11" MacBook Air for $819. That includes an Intel Core i5 CPU with HD6000 graphics, a decent keyboard, industry leading trackpad, PCIe SSD, Thunderbolt port, 2 USB 3.0 ports, and MagSafe Power. The display on the Surface might be a little better, but the atom CPU and archaic storage are very more worse.
I own an 2013 11" MacBook Air and have found it to be a very capable machine. The screen is small, but workable thanks to OS X's excellent full-screen app / virtual desktop implementation. When I'm in my office, I connect it to my 27" monitor, Apple Keyboard, & Magic Mouse and use it like any other desktop.
The Surface 3 possesses only one redeeming quality - a Pen. How bad are you willing to let Microsoft screw you over for a Pen? If the answer is "brutally" then buy a Surface 3.
The screen isn't just small, it's wildly archaic with a low res and bad panel technology. I'd also love to see you try to use the air as a tablet. If you don't need a tablet, don't get a tablet, get an ultrabook.
I considered a MacBook Air, but the screen was unacceptable at the price point. I'm sure that will be rectified in the future, but for now there are inexpensive Windows alternatives with much better screens.
If you want to talk about that price point you should talk about the Pro 3 core i5 which supports tablet mode / touch, the same pen you're talking about, bigger / better screen... silly comparison.
Actually, the screen on the Surface 3 is the best portable screen you can get next to maybe the new Macbook. The Air's screen was terrible for anything requiring any level of color accuracy. You know, the artsy stuff that you can apparently only do on a Mac.
The other redeeming qualities are its size and weight. I know I bought it specifically for those and the screen, as a portable workstation for my photography. When you cram lots of lenses and a couple camera bodies in your backpack, you're already hauling around a good amount of weight. A well-spec'd laptop certainly isn't going along for the ride, too.
Worst thing about the dock on the SP3 is that the angle cannot be adjusted so its virtually useless if you want to have it set up as a secondary screen
Laughing out loud at the "bulky and heavy" comment. This tablet weights less than the ipad 4 and I was not hearing people call that bulky and heavy.... Better, this tablet has a whole inch more screen surface that the ipad.... But this is partly the fault of reviewers that call this a 10 inches device, like the ipad.... Why the ipad, that is 9.7 inches, is 10 inches and this one, at 10.8, is not 11 inches? Increase the screen size of the air and the weight will also go up, while still being a bit lighter, not to mention ipad 4 and below. I have a 600g 10.1 inches windows tablet and it feels very light and pleasant to hold with one hand, just awkward with its 16:9 ratio. The surface will feel more balanced. Concerning storage speed, the 128GB model offers better performance (see this accurate review for more details http://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-Surface-3-T... Having said that, this is the performance with the encrypted SSD. Personally I decrypted the SDDs in all my tablets (Surface pro 3, HP Stream 8, etc.) and the performance, especially the sequential one, has significantly increased.
The IPad is ALWAYS going to be an inferior product regardless of use case.
1. For video/media consumption - you would have access to more media players, more content markets (than just the itunes store) and simply more choice overall.
2. For media/content creation - You do not even have this option (or intergrated well enough) on an IPad.
3. Basic office duties - We can all agree that any office applications on an IPad would be very watered down and frankly quite useless. If you have to buy a keyboard to access an application properly on an ipad, then my friend, I have news for you... your use case clearly aligns you to a surface 3.
An IPad is no where near up to par. You are getting a very big IPod Touch for your money. Don't give in to the marketing from Apple telling you you can be productive on an IPad...
Oh my holy God! Amazing! Through some sort of quantum fluctuation in some internet backbone somewhere, a wormhole in space time has made your post appear three years into the future!
Hello there Anandtech reader from 2012! We hear you loud and clear this is Anandtech 2015! As for your points, a lot has changed/will change from your perspective!
1: IPads in 2015 are better for using content... The vast majority of video is in MP4 formats. The few formats an iPad can't decode natively you can get a third party app for in the AppStore for a few dollars or free. As for content, the vast majority is available through the web or (usually) free third party apps.
2: Content creating: In 2015 its a clear win for the iPad if you want to use a touchscreen. It's not even close with Windows tablets. Adobe for example has over 20 apps for iPad. In your future and my present, even content creation suites that used to only be available for PC/Macs have an iPad app solution available as well.
3: Basic Office: everyone in your time that is skeptical about Microsofts plans are right. In 2015 there is a multitude of office solutions for iPads, and even Microsoft have given up and gone all in on the platform... The MS Office for iPad is on par with the MS Office for Windows, and blows MS Office for Touch Windows completely out of the water. Microsoft of the future will bet big on iOS...
Take care 2012 Anandtech reader! Oh, I probably cant tell you much about this, but be careful with the middle east! There is a group in Iraq that you really shouldn't underestimate... They will wreck some major chaos later in the timeline if you don't try to stop them in 2012!
Yet if you type one line of text on the ipad it's a great big pain in the rear to edit. Where's the back arrow key? I've an Air 2 and, being honest, it's a pain to use for anything serious. Heck the other day I just wanted to copy some comics onto the thing... usually I'd just slap them on but instead I had to place them onto the network, launch an app, log in and then read.
The app situation will improve when Windows 10 hits but, until then, I'll be happy to just launch the FULL application.
how much nonsense in a single post.... You probably don't know how to use Office and Adobe professionally.... or you live in 2015, but on a different planet... My ipad air is a great device, but that's far from being the machine to work on....
If you're in the market for an iPad. Consider the Surface 3 for the 'Just In Case' factor.
1. Just in case you want to edit a word document properly. 2. Just in case you want to create media. 3. Just in case you want to download movies/music from a website. 4. Just in case you want to use adobe products. 5. Just in case you don't want to connect the tablet to your TV. 6. Just in case you want to charge your phone using a tablet. 7. Just in case you actually want to write notes in class/during meetings at the office. 8. Just in case you want expandable memory. 9. Just in case you don't want to be locked into the apple ecosystem. 10. Just in case you save things to a memory stick, rather than a cloud which you get charged for.
and i could go on... Just consider the Surface 3.. Just in case.
LOL! Read my other post Anandtech from 2012! Nothing on your list is accurate or will matter much in 2015...
Both Adobe and Microsoft have gone all in on iPads. Adobe has over 20 apps on iOS, and nothing on Windows that you'd bother running on a touchscreen or with a tablet class processor.
Don't consider the Surface 3. Not even for just in case. You can always get either a better laptop or a better tablet for the same money. The Surface 3 is worthless, considering that for 500-600$ you can get an alright laptop AND an iPad mini: Beat of both worlds!
How in the hell is carrying two devices -- one of them a crappy laptop, the other a tablet with a small screen that's basically just an oversized iPhone -- the best of both worlds?
Adobe only has mobile apps for iOS and Android. Not very useful for any serious production, and a stopgap measure at best until you get to a real computer. Surface 3 can run the real desktop software out of the box. And yes, you can use PS and LR, since I was able to use them on my Lenovo Thinkpad 8 (Atom Z3770 + 2GB/64GB), and the Surface 3 has a significant bump in GPU power.
Great, thorough review - we are picking up ours this afternoon at our local BestBuy. Looking forward to playing around with it today. It will be replacing my wife's 2009 iMac that is on its last legs (overheats and I think the GPU might be failing, it gets really hot and Yosemite has just made things worse). She manages all her homeschooling and her own tasks on that computer. I'm going to give her my old 27" monitor for when she is docked at home (my Surface Pro 3 now runs a 34" Ultrawide Dell), but otherwise she can just use it on her lap for managing the kids' curriculum, etc.
Liking the mini-dp on this. Shame it can't support 4k according to the SoC's datasheet, but it would be pretty sweet to hook this up to a 30" monitor in any case.
Reading and re-reading this review leads me to one conclusion - the Dell Venue Pro 11 7140 is a superb piece of engineering (if not design) and would be my ideal tablet, if not for the accursed 16:9 screen. It's also a deal-breaker on the T300 Chi. I guess I'm hanging out for a Core M SP4 (although I would prefer a slightly smaller tablet). Oh well.
Maybe I'm crazy... I use a Lenovo Miix 2 8" tablet with the older Bay Trail Z3740 as my main computing device and it's been good enough for more than a year. Office documents open fine, I can even run Linux VMs (mainly console stuff), the battery lasts 9 hours and with a portable keyboard, I have my office in under 800 grams.
I paid a lot less than the Surface 3's price though. At $499, the Surface 3 is overpriced and the dock pricing is outrageous.
$499 is a bit high (should be sold for $299-399) but the build-in kickstand along..believe it or not, is so important that its actually worth the extra $100...
Yes i have Dell Venue 8, Miix 2, and insignia 8" and they all run great with 1-2 gb of ram and battery lasts forever, all cost < $250
How is pixel density related to backlight power consumption? The article implies the two are connected, but I don't see how.
For an LCD, backlight power is usually just directly proportional to screen area and brightness. The pixel density may affect power consumption of the GPU and LCD driver hardware, and maybe also the liquid crystal matrix itself.
Is author (Brett Howse) mistaken? If not, can someone enlighten me about the connection between backlight power and pixel density?
I'm going to pull in a quote from another article which sums it up nicely:
"The increase in number of pixels (and transistors powering the display—one for each RGB subpixel) comes with a corresponding increase in the percentage of light being blocked by the transistors and filaments. Thus, the percentage transparent area for each pixel is lower, necessitating a significantly stronger backlight when pixel density is increased."
Also this is one of the advantages of IGZO TFTs is that the actual TFT (Thin Film Transistor) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_transistor is less opaque, so more light gets through as compared to Amorphous Silicon TFTs which are the standard (and cheaper) way they are done.
I looked at the Surface 3 at the store today. The sales guy and I were shaking are heads about entry level specs with 2 gigs of ram. "Why doesn't the Windows button not work?" "Oh It probably needs to be shut down and restarted." I don't need a touch device that badly.
You can disable the Windows button in the surface app. Not sure why you say 2 GB is major issue. Did you see any issues? Lots of tablets with Atom have 2 GB running 8.1.
Thank you for the wonderful review. While it makes sense to compare the Surface 3 to current product offerings, especially the Pro 3, I am slightly disappointed that there is not much in the way of comparison to the products it replaces - the Surface RT/2. I realize most of the benchmarks won't run on Windows RT, but the web browser tests and the store version of 3DMark could have been run, as well as some sort of battery life comparison. I'm going to assume that perhaps this is because you don't have older Surface models on hand, but I know this data has been gathered in the past and I think it might have been helpful to include for Surface RT/2 owners that may be considering upgrading.
I do think it's a compelling product just to get proper pen support and x86 compatibility, though the RT jailbreak went a long way for me to be able to live with the original Surface RT which is what this would replace in my case. I do know the Asus T100 is faster than the original Surface RT, but I don't know how it compares to the Surface 2 speed-wise.
Excellent, well thought out article. I'm tired of hearing how you "can't edit video" on the Surface 3. No kidding - it's not meant for that. You balanced the shortcomings with the benefits, and further cemented my desire to have one (saving up as we speak). Bravo to you and AnandTech!
Was the type-cover-no-longer-works-after-folding-it-back-problem solved with this iteration? Anand wrote in the SP3 review that it still had this problem. I noticed this problem in S1, S2, SP1, SP2 and SP3...
One thing worth mentioning with the USB connector is that you can use now an external power battery. It may charge slower but that could be an important feature for some as you can extend runtime bit longer.
This trick also works with smaller Windows tablets like the Dell Venue 8 Pro. With a 10k mAh battery pack, you can go for days without charging and the same pack can also charge phones.
2 GB RAM surprisingly works even for running Linux server VMs, although running a desktop like XFCE is a stretch. I think it's only for video and photo editing that you would need 4 GB, at which point you should be looking at a Surface Pro instead.
I just found there is a very large elephant in the room that in 259 comments nobody has brought up. I had read this review and was still on the fence about what to buy but was leaning toward the iPad Air 2. I went in to the store determined to walk out with an iPad Air 2 if nothing else so I could learn the ecosystem (This is my 3rd attempt to do so but I always balk at the cost of Apple products). After picking up both tablets and comparing them the weight difference did not bother me as much as I thought it would. The 128/4 gb Surface 3 was $599, the 64/2 gb iPad Air 2 was $589. Looking at the lack of ports on the iPad I started looking at accessories to be able to connect it to everything, $30 to hook it up to my monitor, $20 to hook up my camera, $30 to hook it up to my TV, $89 for a keyboard, $69, for a mouse! $829 for the iPad Air 2 and I did not even get to the covers. So I am typing this from my $718 Surface 3 ($599 + the $119 type cover) with double the ram and double the storage, micro USB, Micro SD, USB, Micro HDMI built in. Looks like Apple lost out again but I just cannot justify the cost versus what you get. The quality of Apple products is hard to beat but the Surface 3 is very close and with twice the storage and ram for less money I could not pass it up.
The Surface 3 looks like it's only about half as powerful as the GPU in the iPad, I guess if you aren't doing anything graphically intensive (games) it won't matter... Otherwise I cringe at the idea of trying a 3D game that's expecting what's normally available on Windows (i.e. Windows games aren't going to be optimized to run on such a slow GPU).
You do know that Windows does everything a tablet does and did it before tablets were on the market? Also anyone who's invested money into any platform will have a hard time moving off that platform to another completely different platform.
As for mixed bag, it's an all-in-one type device. Every single all-in-one type device has compromises. I don't have the Surface 3, but I do have the Surface Pro 3. Works great as both a tablet and as a notebook, so long as you don't actually want to use it in your lap. That's the only real downside that I find.
Now, for the Surface 3, I find it being more of a resurgence of netbooks, except in an all-in-one tablet like device. A device that can do it all, albeit not great, but well enough. Not to mention it does it not quickly, as it uses cheap internals, to keep costs down. The problem with this is the fact that MS gave it cheap internals, but decided to build a quality chassis with quality accessories. So the price point was brought down, but not down enough to satisfy everyone's wants. Sure, MS could have built this thing in a cheap plastic chassis and provided no keyboard or stylus option at all and left consumers to fend for themselves and this would have brought the price down below that of less functional iOS/Android tablets, but this would have also infuriated many consumers.
Really though, I find that MS did this right, minus the keyboard. The price point isn't unreasonable, when compared to less functional iOS/Android tablets. It's size and weight is well below that of convertible laptops. I just dislike the keyboard. Not it's feel or function, just that when you set it up in it's elevated position, it makes using the taskbar via touch, downright useless. I find myself having to remove it from the elevated position to access the taskbar via touch or use the crappy touchpad.
I have a Surface 3 LTE, purchased in October 2015 with all updates duly installed. On the screen appear random clicks, like if I was touching it (but I don't) at full speed, making appear menus, opening files, starting apps etc. making the device unusable.
I had reset the device to no avail.
Additionally, I experienced other problems:
- "Autorotate on" appears on the screen when working with the keyboard attached (so, not rotating at all) stopping the device for some seconds. - A full charge needs 5-6h, with the device plugged in and switched off. If you want to work while charging the device, you will have a hard time: it charges extremely slowly (12h minimum needed) and in most of cases, if you have 2 or 3 "normal" (not very high energy consuming) apps open at the same time (outlook, word, edge), the device will keep on discharging, even plugged in. - The device loses battery when on sleep mode at a very alarming pace (around 5% per hour)
I purchased the device in the US and I work in Russia. Now, with a worldwide guaranty, and in spite of having a filial in Russia, Microsoft asks me to ship the device, to pay for the shipping, to be delivered the new one in the US, and to pay the shipping again to my home in Russia...
And the screen problem is known since 3 years, with thousands of people complaining on forums.
Shame to Microsoft to keep on selling these crappy devices.
If you don't know how to make computers and how to deal with customers, please stay away and let others like Apple do that.
I deeply regret the day when I entered the Microsoft store to buy this.
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ingwe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
This definitely looks interesting. If they would lower the price a bit or use faster storage, I would almost certainly buy.hughlle - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Agree. As a device it is very compelling especially at that price point (i paid £480 for a 64gb ipad air 2 which could do pretty much nothing), however i'd only want one for the full functionality, and once you've paid out for that, it becomes quite a big argument as to whether you just pay the little more and go for the i3 sp3.stefstef - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
no need to be unhappy. used apple hardware goes like hell on ebay. you might surely get a good price for it.jim32 - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
I plan selling my iPad Air and getting the Surface 3 when the LTE version comes out. I need to wipe the dust from the iPad first though.hughlle - Monday, May 18, 2015 - link
Sold it a week later and took a 100 pound hit. 20% depreciation in a week is hardly good retention of value in my mind,houkoholic - Monday, May 18, 2015 - link
It's relative - with Android kit you usually lose 40%, and in 6 months more than 70%. So 20% is actually very good.JRX16 - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - link
One week or 6 doesn't make much difference here. It would still be 20% which is excellent for anything used. What makes a difference is how close it is to the next release. It's not like a car with mileage, time of use doesn't make a big difference in price on these things. Condition does.jaydee - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
My sentiments exactly. I feel there's a very small number of people who "need" a tablet/laptop all-in-one and are willing to sacrifice the best of either world, for an average tablet/mediocre laptop. I might be generous calling it an average tablet, just because of the lack of apps compared to android and Apple. If you're not going to hit at an attractive price point, then I'm not sure of your expectations.With the $600 model, plus type cover and dock pushing $930 plus tax, why not an HP Spectre x360 8GB/256GB for $999? Is the portability, really worth giving up that much CPU/SSD speed, and RAM/SSD capacity, better keyboard and larger screen?
deathwombat - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Lack of apps? It runs Windows! It runs about 8 billion apps written between 1995 and 2015. There is no large library of apps for any tablet.smorebuds - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Ikr. I just want to run my legacy Windows programs on a 10" screen using just my fingers. Can't do that on my sucky Samsung and Apple tablets. Who needs modern touch-friendly interfaces anyway...MrSpadge - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Using legacy apps (which are still called programs) should be fine with the pen. Except for the high DPI display - depending on how legacy the app exactly is.Alexvrb - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
It runs touch-friendly modern apps (including Universal apps which will be getting a boost in the near future) as well as more traditional software. You can use just about any external accessory that you can with a regular PC. If you use the dock and a larger monitor this can even replace the desktop for many users. In many ways it is more versatile than the devices you mentioned.stephenbrooks - Saturday, May 9, 2015 - link
Actually a lot of programs designed for mouse input (click and drag) work pretty well on a touchscreen Windows machine. The main problem is the buttons tend to be too small for fingers.It would be great if Microsoft could have an option to magically enlarge GUI elements a bit when in touch mode.
jaydee - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
When I say lack of apps, I mean as designed as portable tablet. That's what MS is touting, it's a tablet and laptop in one.Of course it has tons of apps as a Win8/10 device, but if that's all you're really after, why buy something that straddles the line between laptop and tablet? Why not an XPS 13 or Spectre x360? Proportionally few of those Windows apps tend to run real well on a 10" touch screen with a resolution of 1920x1280.
It just seems to be in an odd place. I'm not sure what it does really well, other than its display. CPU/RAM/SSD are all compromised as a laptop and it's too expensive for what it does as a tablet. It's not "bad" by any means, I really do *want* to like it, it just doesn't seem to do the laptop thing well enough, be a tablet at a low enough price point. And I'm someone who would like to replace my iPad Air with something convertible like this. But if I'm going to buy a laptop that can also be used as a tablet, it's either going to have to have higher performance, or be cheap enough to not feel bad replacing in a couple years, and I don't feel either with this (particularly with accessories). I'm much more apt to get the i5/8GB/256GB HP Spectre x360 @$1,000, while more expensive, I feel much better about thinking about using for the next 5 years, compared to the Surface $600 + type cover + dock @ $930 and still has a tablet mode. The Surface Pro 3 is nice, but I'm not sure what it offers over the Spectre x360, at a sales price of ~$1,130 (retail $1,300), not to mention being a gen behind with Haswell still. If history is any indication, I will like the SP4 as a product, but probably not at it's price point.
Impulses - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
If the base model included 4GB and/or they at least threw in the pen for free with certain combos, it'd be more enticing. It's still an attractive package for people who just want a secondary system, but a lot of those are just gonna end up with cheaper tablets or more capable laptops.Even tho it's significantly cheaper than SP3, and it's exactly what a lot of people said the base Surface should've been all along, it still feels like less of a value proposition than SP3. Better storage and Type C might've made it more appealing...
As it is it feels too much like something they'll refine significantly for the next rev... Big EDU discounts could sway things tho. A simple $100 student discount would make it a $530-630 hybrid competing against $400-500 tablets and $750+ laptops, much better sweet spot.
simard57 - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Costco has a bundle that includes keyboard and pen for $100 more over the 2GB and 4GB modelsillegaloperation - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
How much is portability worth to you?The HP Spectre x360 weigh over twice that of the Surface 3.
Also, why is the Dock being factor into the price? The Dock is nice to have, but it's hardly essential.
The0ne - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Just curious, what apps are you missing one the Windows platform? For someone like me who would use this for work, I can't imagine an app that is not available that I would use. You mean it doesn't have the hundreds and thousands of useless apps that are in all markets? Always confused by this statement.jaydee - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
In order for it to be considered a good "tablet", it has to do all those things that tablets are known for. Apple and Android have this tremendously large ecosystem that many people are vested in and there's a huge selection for. Obviously "entertainment" apps are going to be useless for people who use this for work. Just like the "productivity" apps aren't useful for those who use it for entertainment, etc. Certainly, the Windows tablet is a better match for a certain type of productivity user like yourself, then a gamer per se. What a tablet has come to be, for many people though is a ubiquitous device that transcends both genres and I don't see that in the Windows platform. Not to mention the fact that Apple/Android tablet users are going to have a hard time switching over if they've invested a decent amount of money into their Apple/Android apps.Like I said, I really want to like this device, but it just feels like too many compromises as a laptop and a mixed bag as a tablet. Does that mean that it's not a great device for some people? Absolutely not! I just don't see it doing one (laptop) or the other (tablet) well enough to break through mainstream and be a big seller at this price point. As other people have mentioned, if it were a lower price or included accessories or faster storage or Core-M instead of Atom were here, I would probably feel much different, but it's too many compromises as is.
Gigaplex - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
With Windows 10, Microsoft is aiming to bridge the "App gap" by making porting of iOS and Android apps to Windows fairly trivial.khanikun - Friday, May 8, 2015 - link
I have an SP3 and it's big selling point over essentially everything you mentioned, the ability to actually make it a tablet. I don't need a keyboard strapped on the thing 24/7, nor do I want to put the keys in harms way when converted into tablet form.I use it like a laptop when I hit my destination and I rip the keyboard off it, when walking around or having it put into my tablet mount in the car. If it were a convertible laptop, I probably would have lost a few keys by now.
Rebelismo - Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - link
Yeah. Lack of apps... That's a good one.There is a clear chasm nowadays between content consumers, and professional users. It seems that MOST people would be fine with a social media content device. The way I see it, the Surface line was made for engineers, designers, scientists, artists etc. If you're worried that the windows store might not have Snapchat, then please get yourself a nice android or ios phablet.
eagle63 - Sunday, May 17, 2015 - link
"...the Surface line was made for engineers, designers, scientists, artists etc...." Those people primarily use Macs, not Windows. Windows is for corporate-types who push spreadsheets around all day. :) Obviously I'm generalizing but I'm not that far off the mark.If you're looking at a Windows tablet and honestly intend to use it as a tablet, then yes there is a remarkable lack of apps - I actually can't believe you would think otherwise. (have you used iOS or Android before??) If your primary goal is a professional/business device, then you're probably set - but you're also probably looking at the Pro model, not this one. So I think the app argument (for this device at least) is absolutely valid and relevant.
JRX16 - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - link
"Those people primarily use Macs, not Windows. Windows is for corporate-types who push spreadsheets around all day. :) Obviously I'm generalizing but I'm not that far off the mark."This... And while some will point out that engineering and scientific organizations will be filled with Windows machines on desks and cubicles, that's a business decision to cut initial costs. The engineers and scientists' personal machines are more often then not Macs.
JoeOliano - Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - link
I'd say it's 50/50Depends on the scientist and the area of research. I never understood the desire for macs and I'm a scientist. They are just sleek and fancy. Only (bio)informatics would benefit from the mac productivity wise. The rest, not so much. And they could do just as well with linux, just no linux tablets on the market ;). That said, the surface line runs ubuntu flawlessly as dual boot!
illegaloperation - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Why do you factor in the price of the dock? Does the HP Spectre x360 comes with a dock?illegaloperation - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
1. The dock is more of an optional accessory than anything. I don't know why you factor in the price of the Dock.2. The HP Spectre x360 weigh 3.26 lbs. That's the weight of the Surface 3. If weigh and portability isn't a concern for you, why even get a laptop? Just get a desktop and you'll get even more for your money.
illegaloperation - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I intended to say "over twice the weight of the Surface 3"NeatOman - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
$599 model + keyboard and pen puts it at $780, i don't think anyone cares to much about the dock for the surface or any other laptop unless they use it for work and it is also powerful. But for $780 i think its a bit slow (despite the NAND being about twice as fast as the 64GB model) at about half the speed if not less at times, it is not worth it.I would just pick up a UX305 with the Core M-5Y10 8GB/256GB for $699 like they said in the article. But if it was $499 for the 4GB/128GB model then i would have no problem recommending it as an option with caution. The surface pro 3 on the other hand i think is still a great PC.
romprak - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I am a big fan of the UX305! But it really isn't comparable, for one the S3 is a tablet - and there are some good applications for having that pen. If you are going to compare it to the UX305, at least remove the pen from your comparison price to knock the price of the S3 down to $730.I have a S3 Pro, and the reason I cannot go to something like the UX305 is that after using the 3:2 aspect ratio screen, I have a hard time coding on a 16:9 display with the lack of vertical space for code. I wish PC manufacturers didn't start using a video oriented aspect ratio for productivity machines :(
Skywax9016 - Monday, May 18, 2015 - link
Asus also have Transformer Book T300 Chi for a tablet with the same specs as UX305 actually. I actually agree that Surface 3 is a pretty reliable tablet, but for the price, it will face some heavy competition to stay afloat.RafaelHerschel - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I fail to see the appeal of access to apps that I don't need. With larger screens, higher resolutions, faster internet connections and more responsive websites, apps have become less relevant. And the stuff that is really useful to me is available for Windows.Separate point: for serious work on location, I use a bluetooth mouse, something that can't be done with an iPad.
MrTetts - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I think we (as people who are interested in surface 3/pro 3) are a different kind of user to people who would want an ipad or something to play with. We are professionals/content creators as opposed to content consumers.zhenya00 - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I disagree. As battery life has become an ever more important consideration in our modern devices, legacy Windows programs are becoming ever more out of date with their ability to consume as many resources as they like, indefinitely. Add to that the poor UI, the lack of any notification system, the incompatibility with Connected Standby, etc. desktop programs are anchors dragging Windows down with them.RafaelHerschel - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
This is not something that I have encountered. I will always prefer a desktop for prolonged work. From a notebook and/or tablet I expect a mix of fun, convenience and productivity.A Windows tablet will work with MS Office, iTunes, Netflix, Kindle, Google Play. I can look stuff up on Wikipedia, IMDb and so on. I haven't experienced any problem with cumbersome controls or poor battery life. A big advantage is that I can hook up a mouse, not something I can do with an iPad.
I do have an iPad Air and a Samsung Galaxy S. Both are great devices, but the new Surface models seem to offer more of everything. If I didn't need more than one tablet, I would probably choose the Surface.
bleached - Saturday, May 16, 2015 - link
I have a work SP3 and I feel the interface is very cumbersome when used as a tablet. I use Android for most anything else and I would barely call the SP3 a tablet. You quickly miss all the small things in Android like global multitasking, the back button, notification shade, quick settings, touch first UI and especially the lack of tablet apps.The SP3 is a great laptop but a crappy tablet.
simard57 - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
how are you getting to $930?$600 + $130 for cover is $730
simard57 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
price is on par with an iPad but it is seems more capable.how is it overpriced?
mkozakewich - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
iPad has better performance and battery life. A keyboard usually only costs $80 or less, too.Frankly, this should cost $50 less if they really want to compete. (I mean, all their margins are in the keyboard covers, anyway.)
AmbroseAthan - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Better performance is very subjective if comparing the iPad to the Surface 3. Personally, I would take a Surface for access to Windows, being the actual programs would be much better than the iOS app alternatives.If all I was doing was videos and needed only light applications for work, than the iPad is not bad.
MrTetts - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The IPad is ALWAYS going to be an inferior product regardless of use case.1. For video/media consumption - you would have access to more media players, more content markets (than just the itunes store) and simply more choice overall.
2. For media/content creation - You do not even have this option (or intergrated well enough) on an IPad.
3. Basic office duties - We can all agree that any office applications on an IPad would be very watered down and frankly quite useless. If you have to buy a keyboard to access an application properly on an ipad, then my friend, I have news for you... your use case clearly aligns you to a surface 3.
An IPad is no where near up to par. You are getting a very big IPod Touch for your money. Don't give in to the marketing from Apple telling you you can be productive on an IPad.
zhenya00 - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
No, just no. I could make a list 3 times as long as yours detailing the ways that an iPad is superior to any Windows tablet. And I own several iPads and two Surface Pros. Frankly I'm just tired of having to counteract this kind of FUD.romprak - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I have 3 iPads at home (first gen, 3rd gen, and Air) - and his list seems quite accurate to me. One reason I've started transitioning our children after they are 6 years old to Surfaces and/or Macs. I am a little sad at how much money we've wasted on iPads, I certainly will not be doing that any longer.With our Macs and Surfaces, the children are actually learning how to do stuff and not be passive observers.
lolstebbo - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The only mental block I'm having right now is does Microsoft even have some sort of equivalent to iMovie? That's the one thing on the Mac side that I don't have a Windows-compatible equivalent for.lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Better performance is arguable. Your mileage may very when it comes to battery life too. It's not only about the keyboard, it's what you can do with that keyboard (IE: iOS VS full Windows, and there's not comparison there). With Windows 10, it's practically game over when it comes to value.It's the other way around. The iPad, and other Android tablets (I'm looking at you Samsung), should be priced way less if we're talking "value".
pedromcm.pm - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
No. The iPad has better screen, apps designed for that screen, a much superior touch-based ecosystem, better SoC performance, 4g option, better battery life and so on. And people buy it because it doesn't run windows, too... It runs something else that is fun, simpler, and does the job, most of the time.Still, i hope that with force touch Apple brings a superior pen-based solution. Because of the mentioned qualities, if the iPad adds what is seen as the surface and note line greatest advantages, it will be the equivalent of iPhones and bigger screens.
ultrAV - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
"apps designed for that scren" what do u mean, are you compare ios to android tablet?4g option is available for surface 3 too
BlueBomberTurbo - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Better screen? Might want to read over the Display section again...Considering the lightweight OS, it's no wonder the iPad has better performance. Try running OS X on there and see what happens.
The Surface 3 will also have a 4G option soon, just not at launch.
And Windows 10 will be able to run fun and simpler apps from iOS and Android, and apps that always get the job done from Windows. ;)
pSupaNova - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Please guys this tablet can not compare itself to an IPad or Android in the tablet space.Simple things like finding good replacement soft keyboards are severly lacking in the Metro store.
The performance of the atom is getting better as the GPU has vastly improved but cannot still match last years top tablets.
As for Full windows use your better off just getting a laptop, the included digitizer is a very good addition but thats a niche field at best.
Microsoft need to drastically lower the price of this tablet if they want it too succeed or throw in the touch cover and pen.
And trying to intice Android and IOS developers is just showing how lacking Windows store is.
Lesliestandifer - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I have an iPad can't really compare windows to iOS or android. When I want do some reading in bed I reach for my tablet when I want to do some real work I get my pc. Both iOS and android flourished because they were cheap quick n easy and there was really no Windows alternative with equivalent specs and power. No one said the windows store was awesome I also had a windows phone it sucks.tablets have always left me wanting to be able to do more. iPads are significantly underpowered and still don't multitask properly! Now with the opportunity to get rid of the iPad\laptop and run it from one device ....yes I will be doing that when the SP4 comes out.Alexvrb - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Actually in many regards the Surface 3 has the superior display. Sorry! Also in terms of SoC performance, the CPU side of the x7 is great and very competitive. If you're looking for 3D performance it's not as impressive but this would not be the best device for that workload - you'd be better off with a laptop/hybrid or a Surface Pro!Speedfriend - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
"And people buy it because it doesn't run windows, too."Increasingly people don't buy the Ipad if the plummeting sales are any indication. My iPad stay on the sofa for basic web browsing, email and videos. Anything else I have to get my laptop for, becuase the iPad is basically pretty useless. And having recently bpought a cheap Android tablet to carry to work to watch movies on, I have realised that an iPad offers nothing that a cheap Android tablet can't do. I will never buy another iPad, it is just an overpriced toy. I wil buy a Surface though as it can actually replace my laptop for almost every task.
romprak - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The iPad is showing its lack of utility even in Apple's lineup, where large phones handily do most of the stuff an iPad used to be relied upon, and cheap tablets do web browsing as well as an iPad. Tablets are great for families, but why buy a $500 tablet for your child, when devices that can do almost as well are available for much, much less - and your children are unlikely to care too much whose logo is on the device?Apple is in trouble with the iPad, they need to either update the OS or come up with something killer for it.
In contrast, my family can use a Windows machine for all sorts of stuff - from programming (my 10 year old son is programming now), all the way to playing games on Steam. So, why iPad? Seems superfluous.
akdj - Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - link
I wouldn't call the 'slack' quarter sales of 17 million iPads 'trouble for Apple'. They sold more iPads then every Surface sold in aggregate, since its birth....last ¼ Alone! And that's six months post release.I like the SP3 Pro, I think MS nailed it. Surface 3 looks like a very nice step forward. That said, Apple HAS updated the OS and as an ambidextrous user or both Windows and OS X, I've found the continuity/handoff features built into iOS 8/OS X 10.10 to easily be the biggest advancement in some time --- especially between devices; phone, tablet and desktop or notebook.
Funny thing, I've got a ten year old as well. Also coding right now --- and I'm learning with him. He's building a cross platform app for his science fair.
He's coding on iOS only. Although he's got access to the iMac and MacBook Air, he's much happier learning both Objective C/Swift on iOS, using the free university lectures, notes and information along with a couple very excellent 'touch' coding 'apps'
It's funny to listen to rehashed arguments about the iPad and how it's for the couch potato only. I've flown 22 hours since Saturday morning, around Alaska with tourists looking to fish, shoot stills or motion, capture audio or wrap production in other areas of the state. My iPad is my kneeboard; plans my flights and files my plans, distributes weight and balance of the A/C, shows me real time weather, traffic, and up to date Jep charts and plates. It's been invaluable as a 'display' for small field edits, using as a remote viewfinder to capture sketchy wildlife and there's never a concern with battery life.
I do enjoy reading on the iPad, creating, invoicing clients or paying my utilities. I can take calls, use MS Office (whoever said it's a stripped version obviously hasn't used iOS Office, it's amazing!) Dropbox or iCloud, Box or Google Drive (I've found many Google apps to be better on iOS than my Android devices, currently using a Note 4), as well a plethora of powerful apps like iMovie, GarageBand, Pages Numbers and Keynote...all optional, none are bloated. iOS takes up a ½ dozen GBs, not two dozen! And if the RT3 suffers this much graphically, there's a LIMIT on 'all those X86' programs that actually WILL run on the rig
Sure, you'll be able to run CS3 efficiently and it sounds like games from a decade ago might work, but Iike the iPad, you're not gonna be manipulating 50megapixel Raw images nor creating killed effects in AE or transcoding video any faster. There's a trade off either way and IMHO, it's cool to see this significant a jump in performance on the new RT
I was also impressed with the SP3. That said, the iPad Air 2 is one helluva tablet at one pound and using TCAS and ADS-B with three dimensional moving maps with weather and traffic, GPS and nav aids that were easily 50-60 pounds for each pilot to carry around or avionics to add... Now in less than a one pound package, it's definitely NOT in trouble.
I think it's such an excellent device --- my original as well as iPad 2 are working great and the kids love them...most folks aren't updating them like phones. They're still selling nearly a 100,000,000 a year! That's hardly trouble. Even if the slip YoY spooks you, just remember how many are already out there, that the mini is only two and half --- 1 ½ with retina, and the Air 2 was the tick. Not that tock...yet they've managed to sell more in their worst quarter than every other tablet manufacturer combined! (Not to mention their mind blowing 6 & 6s sales, I'm sure their just fine canabalizing their own iPad sales with 6 and 6+ sales which are also pocket computers).
Times have changed and 'most' folks have everything they need in today's tablets. Today's smartphones. Regardless of which OEM they've decided on. Once they're happy, it's kind of a pain to 'change over' and these are extremely personal devices when compared to the home computer
Sorry about the length. But I enjoy and love using both OS X and (one of about six or seven dolts that enjoy using) Win 8.1. I've also used Android since 08 (still have my Xoom!) and iOS since '07. I currently use a Note 4 and 6+. Biz. Personal. As much as I enjoy Windows, OS X is certainly the 'go to OS' in our house.
Not to mention, OS X comes complete with training wheels for someone like romprak. It's called Bootcamp and you're welcome to install any OS you'd like. Unlike Windows.
bobjones32 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
For your claim of better performance, how well does the iPad run Win32 apps?mkozakewich - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
That's not performance, that's functionality. If the exact same chip magically supported dual-booting x86 Win10, I'm sure it would do slightly better. That's not the power of Atom, though. It wasn't designed to blow everything else out of the water. (I'm sure it'll get better power characteristics on heavy load tests, for instance, because of its conservative power use.)What it all boils down to: This is a great device. It's different than an iPad, though, and different people will need different things from it. I feel a premium tablet can live at $500-$600, but a slightly-compromised tablet that runs Windows and is only truly complete with a $120 accessory will need to sweeten the deal to have obvious value to the common consumer.
It's a close game, but Surface needs a nudge. I suppose it'll get that in a couple months when it goes on sale for a bit.
MrTetts - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I never understand people who say this device is overpriced.. I just don't. For what it does, I would say it is very well priced.Stevegt87 - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
While the surface 3 is more capable than an ipad. A new ipad runs 100% of ipad software perfectly. Surface 3 is low on cpu/gpu/ram/disk for much of the desktop experience that it enables.Stevegt87 - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Game are made to run perfectly on an ipad. Games will humble surface3augiem - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
This thing is already $100 cheaper than a 128GB Air 2, does WAY more, has more memory, etc. How cheap is cheap enough? Would you really want them to sacrifice something like build quality, screen quality, or other necessities to reach a price point lower than this? They do have to stay in business after all. Running full Windows in the tablet space is completely unheard of and adds far more than $50 worth of value to this product compared to its competition.augiem - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Running [a full desktop OS] in the [ulv] tablet space is completely unheard of...romprak - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
There are folks who will defend Apple to the hilt for the way they charge for extra storage, but then claim that Microsoft is pricing the Surface 3 too high. This is a premium device, made of quality materials, with a quality screen, and runs full 64-bit Windows, with real ports (USB and Displayport), with expandable storage. I think it is priced very reasonably. I think if they could drop the keyboard to $99, I think that would make a difference in perception. $129 stretches comfort perhaps a bit too far and gives sticker shock.Skywax9016 - Monday, May 18, 2015 - link
Unfortunately, they are not simply competing with iPad in the market. They are also competing with other Windows Tablet/Hybrid devices. When compared to what a PC does better, there a more than a few Windows Tablet/Hybrid devices that can perform better than a Surface 3 for around the same price. When compared to what a Tablet does better, there is iPad and other plethora of Android tablets available which can perform better than a Surface 3 for around the same price.I actually like the Surface 3 really, but it seems that it is somewhat stuck in the middle by not excelling in anything compared to other competing products. Maybe, a faster internal storage can actually help to boost performance, but right now, maybe it's a product that doesn't suit me well enough.
Gunbuster - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Why, oh why are they still using that f-ing terrible Marvell Avastar WiFi/Bluetooth...MarcSP - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Great review! It would be nice to ask Microsoft about the battery life. They promiss around 10 hours of video playback, and you got much less (and also much less that other reviewers, that got at least 1 hour more than you).SpartanJet - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I'd bet anything they were using Chrome for the tests, aside from the fact its a front for free data mining for that Ad company, its a horrible battery drain on these mobile devices.Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
For tablet mode, I used Modern IE, and for notebook it was desktop IE.I spoke to some other people who have tested the device, and they were testing it at a lower brightness level which is going to impact the battery life a lot since the display is the main power draw.
lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Which program do you use for the video playback test? What type of video file?id4andrei - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Jarred Walton once tested the state of video playback in relation to battery drain on Windows. VLC is the Chrome of video players. The most power efficient video players are the video app(modern) and the tried and true windows media player(in this order).MarcSP - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Thanks for the clarification :-), but what about the software for video playback and the video format? As other said, it can affect quite a lot the result.Brett Howse - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Windows Video app is used, and the file properties are listed on the graph. Let me know if you need anything else.MarcSP - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
No, that will be all. Dismised. :PHe, he. Thank for your reply! :-)
dusk007 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
One would wish Intel would just license the Mali GPUs or PowerVR designs. Even with 14nm they cannot keep up with Nvidia, Apple or any of the faster Adreno or Mali 760 SoCs.Also there doesn't seem to be any improvements. Their GPU design is not very power efficient and seemingly not even die space efficient but there are no real noticeable improvements between Gen 7 and 8. They should just go back to licensing or just buy Imagination Technologies.
Drumsticks - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't skylake rumors include huge GPU strides?A5 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Big grain of salt on that. Similar rumors were around for Haswell and Broadwell, too.lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
You'd think they'd at least get the GPU at performance parity with AMD's APUs by now....meacupla - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I think intel GPU performance is better than AMD APUs. Intel's solution does hardware video playback without sucking down enormous amounts of power.I won't even go into gaming, since both solutions are, flat out, subpar for that.
anubis44 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Utterly wrong. AMD's Radeon GPU technology in their APUs crushes Intel's fastest integrated graphics. No comparison. Don't even try.meacupla - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
That's not what I'm saying. Please read.AMD is faster, but at the cost of power and efficiency. And it still won't give you a good gaming experience, because there's not enough of everything in APUs.
Intel is slower, but gets the job done with regards to video, there was no question of it being gaming capable in the first place.
lilmoe - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Efficiency isn't AMD's fault. Intel's had the process lead for more than 2 generations now and they're STILL not even close to AMD's GPU performance... We'll see how efficient Intel's GPU is when AMD goes 14nm....RafaelHerschel - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
That is a weird statement. Whose fault is it then? You're right about one thing though, AMD is woefully behind Intel. I wish it wasn't so, but I don't see AMD making any real progress soon.At this point efficiency is king and Intel with their 'mobile first' philosophy is now becoming a viable alternative for the mobile market. Sadly I don't think that AMD has the budget to compete.
lilmoe - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
If we're talking efficiency, then ARM is king IMHO. The upcoming custom ARMv8 designs should give Intel a run for their money. AMD's Zen cores were developed with mobile first in mind with supposed great single threaded performance. It'll be interesting to see how things fold out. Too bad we'll have to wait a year at least for that.I should have been more specific though. I should have said that it wasn't "entirely" AMD's fault since process nodes of other fabs haven't been up to par. It'll be interesting to see AMD's Zen at 14nm vs Intel's Skylake at 14nm.
lilmoe - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Oh, forgot to say that the initial point was about GPUs. Even with a process lead, Intel still can't come up with a decent GPU, even compared with ARM SoCs.LogOver - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Do Mali or PowerVR GPUs support DX at all? And if so, how good the support is? Last time I checked there were big issues with PowerVR Windows drivers. I'm not sure if these GPUs has any good support for something other than OpenGL ES. I guess the missing features are the reason that these GPUs are so "efficient".dusk007 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
According to the specs http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-perfor...Mali T760 supports OpenGL 3.1 and DirectX 11. Since Dx12 does not need different hardware that should be in the cards too. They all run the Windows mobile version so drivers are available. And features are all there. Intel is just not doing a very good job.
Considering the money and resources Intel has they really should do better.
LogOver - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
According to the specs PowerVR GPUs also supports DX since series 5. They claimed DX 10.1 compatibility for sgx 545. I had netbook with Atom N2600 and it was the worst experience I ever had with laptops because of broken windows GPU drivers and non existing Linux drivers. I doubt that the situation with Mali or Adreno is any better. In fact, Intel does have new atoms with PowerVR GPUs (z35xx) but haven't hear about any planned windows device which are using these atoms. The reason is known...BlueBomberTurbo - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Check the GPU charts again. The HP Stream 7 is Gen 7, and gets absolutely blown out of the water on the GPU tests against the Surface 3.dusk007 - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Sure but I mean clock for clock, eu for eu.It is 16 eu against formerly 4. Of course it is faster but that is a lot of die space even on 14nm.
Where are differences like Kepler vs. Maxwell or AMD 290X vs the last GCN. Those just get more speed out of each execution unit. The faster Broadwell also only increase execution units but there should be plenty of other improvements possible before they catch up to the competition's efficiency. A lot of the Mali "tricks" can even be easily licensed.
Speedfriend - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
"One would wish Intel would just license the Mali GPUs or PowerVR designs"They already use both of them in other chips. What Intel should do is buy Imagination, they would get the PowerVR IP which would improve Atom GPUs, it would give them leverage over Apple (who I guess are still some way off having their own GPU design) and they would get MIPS which they could develop as their ARM killer in the smartphone space.
watzupken - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I think Cherry Trail will be great in a low power PC for surfing net and some HTPC duties. Anyway, I am not sure if the poor battery life is a result of the SOC or Windows as well. I believe Windows is not exactly a very power friendly OS in the first place if you are using it all the time.nafhan - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Could you put a couple of the older Surface Pro's in the comparison chart? Especially purchasing on the used market they're definitely comparable at this point!Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Here you go: http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1479?vs=1207I didn't include the older models since they don't have all of our new benchmarks run on them, so the amount of comparisons we can do is limited.
nathanddrews - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Even better, the new one vs the i3 Surface:http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1287?vs=1207
nathanddrews - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Ha, just pretend that I posted the correct link:http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1287?vs=1479
blanarahul - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
They should've used the UFS 2.0 eMMC that Galaxy S6-tachi have been using.DanNeely - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Is there any way I could compare this directly with something running a 2 generation old Clovertrail Atom? I looked in Bench, but the Surface 3 is only listed in laptops, so I can't compare it against the ASUS VivoTab Smart on the tablet page; and the huge sea of undifferentiated laptop model numbers makes finding something from the right generation in the laptop dropdown nearly impossible.Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Unfortunately not really since none of the benchmarks we ran on those devices were run on the new ones.DanNeely - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Could I bootstrap an approximate comparison via an intermediate aged device. ex Surface 3 is X times faster than Foo, Foo is Y times faster then Clovertrail; so Surface 3 is about X*Y times faster than my old clovertrail powered tablet/netbook.edlee - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
"but it is worth nothing the SoC power draw between the two (14W vs 2W). "Spelling, meant to write noting
cknobman - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Interesting product with potential but Microsoft still continues to miss the mark.Running full Windows on a device with 2GB RAM and 64GB HDD is just a setup for disappointment.
Sure day 1 performance may be adequate but within a few months after installing some software that thing will run like a dog with no storage.
The model to go for is the 4GB RAM 128GB HDD. Problem is @$599 + $130 keyboard you are looking at $730.
At that price there are too many options in the market for a much more powerful device.
And STILL NO PEN STORAGE!!
If Microsoft would wake up and figure out a way to bundle the keyboard with the device for no extra $$$$ then these things would be no brainer instant buys.
ScottSoapbox - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Why stop there? Microsoft should just give away the device for free. Think of the sales then!Granted Microsoft should sell the keyboard cover at $99 instead of $129, but there are actual costs involved. Forgoing margin is one thing, selling things at a loss is another. Microsoft isn't going to lose money selling something just because some people would think it nice.
BTW The 128 GB iPad is $700 and does not include a keyboard or even the option of adding a pen.
maximumGPU - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yes there are costs involved, but we both know that keyboard is costing them a tiny fraction of the asking price. I personally think it's a ridiculous strategy to make up your margins with massively overpriced add-on's, doubly so when you're desperate for market share and that accessory is one of your best differentiating point.mr_tawan - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I actually think the same that the keyboard should come with the tablet. But then again why don't we just buy a laptop instead :-).lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Because a laptop is not a tablet.I've been saying this over and over again, the Surface is a tablet first and foremost. It gives you added value in being capable of replacing your laptop if you don't lots of performance.
lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
edit: if don't *need* lots of performanceDrumsticks - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Well isn't the tablet already thinner than the pen? I'm not sure it would be worth it to increase the z height by 50% to store the pen.stburke - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
It doesn't even include the pen, there's another $50. So $780 to really get the whole experience. This is an Apple-esque priced device.This was the Surface I had been waiting for, I'm happy with the Atom X7 performance, I like the size and the weight, but the storage performance is unacceptable. When it's upwards of $800 with lousy charging and storage performance, I'll wait to see what the Surface Pro 4 has to offer or wait another year till this thing gets refreshed.
TwiceOver - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yeah, the complete package with tax for me was $824. I actually was not going to buy it and then a deal came up that made it more reasonably priced.I'm sure this thing costs quite a bit to make considering the precision and components involved. But to me, at a glance, this shouldn't be above $600 complete.
lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Comparatively? This is the BEST value tablet out there as is. 64GB and 2GB of RAM are plenty for most folks buying this as a tablet first, laptop second.I'm not exactly sure what makes your computer "slow down" after a period of time except for crappy software and huge list of startup programs (ie BLOATWARE). I disable anything running in startup from the task manager. Nothing "needs" to be starting automatically when you start Windows unless you use the device solely for that app/program. I've installed Windows 7 in late 2009 and NEVER formatted or reinstalled Windows, nor had it slowing down because of software...
These eMMC drives might be comparatively "slow" but they're a heck of a lot better than any cheap consumer HDD out there in most laptops sold. Brett Howse is probably used to using SSDs exclusively, most people aren't. UFS might have been super though.
magreen - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
"These eMMC drives might be comparatively "slow" but they're a heck of a lot better than any cheap consumer HDD out there in most laptops sold. "Not true. 33MB/s sequential write is much slower than even a cheap laptop HDD, which will be doing 80MB/s at the very slowest (and usually >100MB/s). 33MB/s is like an external hard drive over USB2.0, which can be quite laborious to use.
extide - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yeah, but that is only sequential -- in random I/I the eMMC will still beat the pants off a regular laptop hdd -- and that's what really matters.lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Wouldn't you think that random speed not only makes up for that, but also makes it seem much faster in real life scenarios compared with HDDs?Anyway, UFS should make the gap much wider in future products. Samsung and others are working on super cheap modules. SSDs aren't needed in most segments.
magreen - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yes, it is better in random access than a cheap laptop HDD. But I don't know if that's the only thing that matters. It's unbalanced, just like the early SSDs were. The early SSDs were unreasonably slow in random write, and this is unreasonably slow in sequential write.As to which is more essential to feel "fast," I think that may be in the eye of the beholder. Yes, this eMMC may have some snappiness to it due to quickness in random access, so it won't get slowed to a clickety-clackety crawl by a virus check, for example. But it's probably painfully slow to complete tasks we're not accustomed to waiting for (sequential). That may be what the reviewer is pointing out, that storage seemed to be a bottleneck.
68k - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Mechanical HD and eMMC is not even at the same level when it comes to which feel "faster". Random access is far more important for everyday use, which make eMMC superior in very close to 100% of the use cases.Random access performance of small sizes at low queue depth is what a disk targeting interactive usage should optimize for.
magreen - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Really? For a full-blown Windows install? How would you know?You're not making a fair comparison. Remember this thing runs full Windows 8.1. The whole purpose is that people can use their standard desktop applications. You can't just think of the speedup from a typical HDD to a typical SSD. You'd have to cripple the sequential access to make the assessment.
When was the last time you used an external SSD over USB 2.0 as your boot and programs install drive, to test your hypothesis? Or how about a microSD card as your boot drive? How slow would it be to fire up Microsoft Word? How about opening up a large video file? What about a file copy? You're not used to waiting for the sequential aspects of any of those because they're almost always >100MB/s, even on a cheapo 5400 rpm HDD.
jabber - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
33MBps but far far lower latency which I find more effective/noticable than raw MBps. The average user won't be overly concerned.Too many of us here have just been spoilt.
tim851 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I don't know, man. Here in Germany the Surface 3 64 GB is 10% more expensive than the iPad Air 2 with 64 GB. And I would never call an iPad 'good value', though it will likely hold its value better than the Surface.The Surface has the perk of running full Windows, but without a keyboard, I don't see anybody getting much use out of the desktop.
I personally still find the S3 pretty enticing, if only for the Stylus, which is another Apple-priced add-on. But I would call it good value, not to speak of "best value".
lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Ok, but how many tablets do you know can do what the Surface 3 can at that price?I do agree that the accessories are on the overpriced side, but don't forget that they aren't the only accessories that work with this device, and it doesn't *need* them to deliver on its promise. I personally wouldn't be using it as a "laptop replacement" on the go, but at home or in the office, I'd connect it to a bluetooth/wireless mouse/keyboard and an external monitor if necessary...
This device works great for any type of media consumption since it's capable of running/viewing just about anything. It's also great for Office at home, or for your average secretary, assistant, HR, and sales employee for work. It's one of a kind device for these purposes.
Manch - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I have an original PRO and I use onenote on it religiously. Its replaced paper notebooks for me. I'm actually thinking about getting the S3. The pen is awesome. Marking up docs is great. Hand writing rec even works on my writing and I write right handed now bc of an injury. whether I'm at a tech conference or just at work, the device is awesome. My buddy has the S3 Pro and I drool about getting one. Thing is I have the dock, keyboard and what not already so I'm reluctant to buy again. I dont however need the power I have in the PRO. The regular S3 would work great.Manch - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I forgot to add, I dont see the desktop much on the PRO. I use it in tablet mode. Keyboard only gets snapped to it when i'm on the road bc its more than enough computing power. At my desk when docked i have an external monitor and kb mouse. With Windows 10 on it now, wow, so much better!SpartanJet - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I initially wasn't going to buy but if you purchase through the Microsoft store you can get a 10% .edu discount and also use the 5% Microsoft discount you get by texting. My total came out to be ~$675 which included the 4/128, Type cover, pen, and tax.RBFL - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Did you look at the Thinkpad 10, when Lenovo has one its sales you can get the 4/128 with a 'real' keyboard for about $550. Admittedly one gen behind this on atom but not bad and seems to aim at quite a similar usage.RafaelHerschel - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I use MS Office plus iTunes and Kindle on a cheap Windows tablet from Acer with 2GB ram plus a 32GB ssd and everything runs just fine. I specifically wanted a 2GB tablet for testing purposes and I'm impressed how well it works.jabber - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I think some folks haven't realised that you DON'T have to carry around all your software and data ALL the time. Some of us work pretty light. My work laptop has hardly any user data on it at all. It all goes up the cloud. Software wise it has Office 2013, Firefox/Chrome and a couple of other bits and bobs and that's it. All sits on around 25GB on a 120GB SSD. Folks are weighing themselves down far too much. Take a serious look at what you really need/use.RafaelHerschel - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
True. I had to make the transition as well. I used to fill up hard drives with clutter. I changed my attitude for a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is that wanted to work more efficient.On my desktop games take up space, but games can be removed and later re-installed from Steam or another similar service.
Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Have you ever used at least a baytrail tablet before spewing such nonsense?hans_ober - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
The charge times are horrible. They should have added the Surface charging port + micro usb charge support (for emergencies). Or just used USB C.Doroga - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Would be a great thing to fix barrel distortion in product photos.Very easy to do it in full auto with modern software
duploxxx - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
The GPU in the Surface 3 is really not enough to play most games, and even on our value settings, the Surface 3 is not a great experience for DOTA 2. The higher TDP of Core M lets it do ok in this test, but overall the Surface 3 is a long way back of even the Surface Pro 3 Core i3.poor Intel, 2015 and still not able to provide a gpu decent to play a game, guess what Intel look at the market, all kids use tablets these days to play games, none will ask for a x86 based one...unless they have stupid parents still just going for the jingle. but then again the market of mobile games is flood by ARM based games, way to late for mobile windows based things..
Jon Tseng - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Bay Trail runs Skyrim and Far Cry 3 fine. Cherry Trail with 4x the EUs should have no problem.I guess it comes down to your definition of "most games"...
Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Look at his writing, he has much worse problems than bad definitions.CaedenV - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Hmm... I wonder how much I could sell my XPS12 for. It is a great little laptop, but way overkill for what I do. About the hardest thing I run is Cisco Packet Tracer, and I imagine that the 4GB version of the Surface 3 would do that just fine. Everything else is office and web browsing.The keyboard on the XPS12 would be rather difficult to give up though. Best typing experience I have ever had on a laptop, and I rather hate the SP3 keyboards.
Stuka87 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
How much does the Surface 3 weigh with the keyboard attached?TwiceOver - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Just a hair under 2 pounds. 1.95der - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Brett, you're the real mvp.der - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yo, Brett, do you think it's possible to give me an .icc profile of the Display you calibrated?Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I didn't create an icc profile sorry.Gunbuster - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Was WiFi tested plugged in or on battery?Gunbuster - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Can you also test WiFi while bluetooth is being used to a wireless speaker for instance?Gunbuster - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
???Brett Howse - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Patience my friend, patience. I just tested Wi-Fi on battery while streaming to a bluetooth speaker and I got roughly the same peak performance. Maybe just a hair slower but these tests always involve some amount of variance anyway.NikosD - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
That was a very good chance to test HEVC decoding capability of Cherry Trail.How fast is it ?
Is it fast enough to decode 4K@60 fps ?
Does it support 10 bit HEVC decoding in hardware ?
Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
This is something I wanted to try out before the review but I ran out of time. I'll get to this sometime this week and give you an update.Ryan Smith - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Intel's specs specifically list Cherry Trail at topping out at 4Kp30 (i.e. Level 5).NikosD - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Thank you both.Brett Howse - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
I tried a 4K60p 8 bit, and it could almost play it back, but 4k30p 10 bit was a no go. But I'm no expert on HEVC that's Ganesh's field.06_taro - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Sadly for Main 10 we still need to wait for Skylake or later.How is the CPU/GPU usage for 8-bit clips?
mr_tawan - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
There was a promotion here in Thailand last week which they gave away the type cover away for every SP3, and some dealer also give away the dock for higher models. It was a tough choice but I decided to get the core i3 Pro instead of waiting for this, and I don't regret it.It'd be better if it come with a standardized power port and larger SSD though (64GB is too limitted for Windows, and all MS applications are space hugry).
lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Any news from AMD? Are they releasing a competitor mobile platform anytime soon?Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
They wish.nonoverclock - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
If you get the chance to update the review with the higher end 4GB version of Surface, I would love to see those numbers. With 2 GB RAM, it seems that we're not seeing the full picture of what the Atom chip is capable of as memory limitations come into play. I have a Bay Trail Dell Venue Pro 11 w/ 2 GB RAM and more intensive web surfing becomes a hassle, likely due to RAM limitations. Would love to see what an Atom + 4 GB RAM is capable of.Shivansps - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Also i think the 2GB model is actually running Single Channel ram, crippling 3D results, notebookcheck did a review of the 4GB model and it gets +100 points on 3dmark11.bobjones32 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
What browser did you use for your web browsing battery life tests? On my Surface Pro 3, I get 1-2 hours less battery life with Chrome than I do with Firefox with identical extensions installed. On IE without any extensions at all, it's even better.mva5580 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I'd like to know this too; something just doesn't add up with that browsing test.Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
IE Desktop on notebook battery life, and IE Modern on the tablet one.bobjones32 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Thank you!kmmatney - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I have a Winbook tablet (poor man's surface) and after I installed Chrome, IE will not run in modern mode anymore. It will only run in desktop mode, and doesn't even bring up the touch keyboard, which makes it unusable. Chrome works fine in desktop mode, but not IE...Drumsticks - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The browser you set as default is the only one that can run in modern mode. You would have to change back to IE default to get it in modern.melgross - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I'd like to know what it's supposed to mean that sales of the Surface Pro 3 "have been very strong"? Total sales from that, including the keyboards, have been just $732 million last quarter, indicating no more than a total of 700 thousand in the quarter. That's anything but strong, not to mention very strong. I'm not even sure if that's more, or less, than it was last year's quarter, yoy.Perhaps we need a better definition of what strong, and very strong, means when compared to other major tablet vendors.
Drumsticks - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Sales were up 40% YoY I believe, and Microsoft went on record some time a quarter or two ago saying that the SP3 had made the division profitable for them.bobjones32 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Well, what's your definition of "strong"?If the Surface Pro 3's main competitor is the MacBook Air, then that should be the sales benchmark, not tablets. Apple sold around 4.5 million Macs in total for its most recent quarter - so that includes all Airs, Pros, desktops, etc.
If as you math'd Microsoft sold ~700k Surface Pro 3s, that seems pretty good compared to the record-highest number that Apple has ever sold of all Macs put together, considering that the SP3 still isn't sold in as many countries, is still a relatively new entry, and has the public taint of Windows 8 on it.
Speedfriend - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Strong is a correct description.In the Dec quarter Surface sold over 1m units versus the 1.5m-2m MacBook airs that Apple sold in the quarter. I would call that a fantastic performance.
In the last quarter Surface revenue grew 46%, versus Mac revenue growing 2% and iPOAd revenue falling a staggering 28%. Again I would call that a fantastic performance!
For a product that Microsoft is forced to price at a premium (or risk alienating its OEM cusotmers even more), it is selling exceptionally well.
jhoff80 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yes, the charging connector on past Surface devices has been finicky (though I've never used a Surface 2 or Pro 3 myself), but with the design of Microsoft's charging cords all keeping the cord parallel with the device, I couldn't imagine being limited to a non-reversible connector like this one is.Depending on how I'm sitting/positioning the Surface Pro 2 on my lap or desk, sometimes cord up is far more convenient and sometimes cord down is. Not having that choice would be a huge pain with this cord design, and so I'm a little surprised that Microsoft didn't at least change away from that sort of design with microUSB as their connector.
chizow - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Nice review Brett, great background info for those that were unaware of the evolution the Surface non-Pro has undergone. I was initially optimistic about the Surface RT, but once I found out its limitations I was one of the many that asked for an Atom-based x86 replacement to fill in that low-end gap to bring Surface's great design and interface to the masses.Now that we have it, it is certainly a nice device but I don't feel the price point is low enough, nor the performance good enough, to wow the masses. We will see, but it doesn't look like Cherry Trail was much of an advancement over previous Bay Trail, which is coming up on 2 years old. Maybe if MS included the Stylus (a net minus over the Pro) and/or the type pad, it would be a better deal, but with the various specials and incentives Microsoft typically offers even on new Surface parts, there is hope for this part yet.
Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
2W for SoC on x86 is not an advancement for you?shodanshok - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
A question about connected standby and hibernation: Microsoft's documentation state that hibernation is entered only with critically low battery level (and this level is configurable using the advanced power settings). This match my experience on two different Win8.1 tablets (HP Stream 7 and Dell Venue 11 Pro 7000).On the other hand, on your review you stated that Surface 3 enter hibernate after "some hours" of idling in connected standby.
Is the Surface 3 behaving differently than other Win8.1 tablets (and from Microsoft own documentation?)
LINK: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/h...
Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Here you go: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2998588/lilmoe - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
how long does it take to resume from hibernation? <5 seconds? 5-10? >10?shodanshok - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
So it was a custom power profile from Microsoft. Very interesting to know...Thank you ;)
mva5580 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
The Web Browsing battery test is baffling to me. How can it possibly be LESS than a SP3? Atom processor, smaller screen, lower resolution. I don't get that one at all.Brett Howse - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
The battery in the Surface Pro 3 is 50% larger. 28 Wh vs 42 Whchizow - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
That gulf will probably grow as well with the rumors SP4 may have a Core M variant. Cherry Trail is a bit disappointing though, not a huge increase in performance and this S3 actually has worst battery life than some of its Bay Trail predecessors like the Asus T100.Even more telling is the next slowest device in most of your tests is the $79 HP Stream 7, and while the Surface 3 certainly has more going for it in terms of form factor and functionality, a sub-$100 device is going to get a lot of passes where a $500 might not.
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
That battery is the ultimate symbol of greed. Like they couldnt eat an extra $6 to give the thing a respectable battery. We need some explanation as to what exactly is the bottleneck in a game like DOTA 2. The <20 fps is extremely disappointing. but is it the GPU or the anemic CPU cores that hold it back? And why didnt they at least double the L1? Talk about greed.dullard - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
"I’m not sure if we have found a “perfect” aspect ratio for a tablet"One aspect ratio would be nearly perfect for almost every use, if only tablet manufacturers would make a tablet at that aspect ratio. That nearly perfect ratio is 2^0.5 : 1 (about 1.414 : 1).
1) A program designed to fill the screen at 2^0.5 : 1 would also perfectly fill half the screen at 1 : 2^0.5/2 (which is still 1.414 : 1 when rotated). Finally, we could have distortion-free multi-tasking with no extra programming needed, an issue that no tablet has really yet solved.
2) It is a natural-feeling aspect ratio, not too tall or too narrow. No "narrow video" warnings needed. Webpages that haven’t been converted to mobile would still work well. It would have good hand feel.
3) It is almost exactly A4 paper ratio (1 : 1.41421 vs 1:1.41428). A4 is the standard paper for 2/3rds of the world. Thus a Word document, PDF, or similar would fill the screen uncropped. It isn't far off from from the US 11:8.5 paper standard either.
4) It is pretty much in the middle of the 4:3 digital camera and 3:2 DSL camera aspect ratios. That means when using the camera to see photos, it will look good with minimal cropping or black bars.
I could go on and on.
Jon Tseng - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
>Having the third position really helps in a lot of situations, and while I would have liked the>final one to open as wide as the Surface Pro 3,
There is actually a fourth position. Give it a good shove and it collapses even flatter. Not sure if this is a genuine position or a manufacturing fail safe though!
Jon Tseng - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
More details herehttps://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/33rxja/s...I tried it on a demo unit in curry's. It works the stand is def engineered to open this far (whether its engineered to do it regularly I don't know)
gsusx - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Wtf. Curry's have them in stock. . Where?Jon Tseng - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The big Curry's on Tottenham Ct Road has a demo unit out. Had stickers on saying "property of Microsoft not sale stock" so presumably its a pre-release date demo unit. Yeah I was surprised to see it too![email protected] - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
micro usb type-c would be better , but a standard micro usb charging is still a huge leap forward vs any proprietary charging port.reversibility is for idiots. PERIOD.
kmmatney - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
I take it you haven't used a reversible charging plug? It is a much better solution. Period.meacupla - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Proprietary connectors only suck when they are easy to break and hard to replace.That said, micro USB connectors also suck on these devices, because they're also easy to break and hard to replace.
The magnetic reverseable connector on previous surface devices was perfectly fine. They were hard to break and easy to replace. Basically, the side that broke most often was either the cable or brick, which is much cheaper to fix or replace compared to the device itself.
ddawg609 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Will it upgrade to Windows10 when it is released?BlueBomberTurbo - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yup, everything that uses Windows 7 through 8.1 can be upgraded to Windows 10 for free for the first year of release.mva5580 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
As it seems with most devices these days, my main concern is with battery life.What I really want it to be is an iPad replacement that also happens to be a full PC. I'm fine with the price point (an 128gb iPad Air 2 without a case/keyboard is $700,) I'm fine with the performance (I will play games on it, but stuff that it can handle. SimCity 3000, Baldurs Gate, Out of the Park Baseball, stuff like that,) and the form factor is small enough to feel like a tablet but big enough to be able to do most "full" PC things on it.
It just seems like whenever I look at devices anymore, I'm disappointed in the battery life. So I guess either my expectations are too high, device makers don't care as much about battery life and skimp on it, or maybe a little of both. If this thing could manage the battery life of an iPad Air 2, it would dare I say, be about as "perfect" of a device as I could find for what I want to do with it. For many years to come at least when things this size can run newer, more advanced games.
I have the bundle pre-ordered from Costco that is the 4gb/128gb/Pen/Keyboard combo for $700, and I'm very much looking forward to trying it out. If the battery life isn't a disappointment, I imagine I will love it.
jjj - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
This is a bulky and very heavy (622 g) mid range tablet and they want 500$ for it.Plus 129 $ for crappy keyboard.And it runs Windows, M$ will never get tablet apps going before tabs are dead. A crippled tablet and a crippled netbook merged into something nobody needs. Some might think they need it but that's only because they don't know any better and you are not helping them.
How hard you try to sugarcoat the pref is also rather hilarious. In GPU you go as far as flooding the reader with synthetic benchmarks (decades of PC benchmarking improvements down the drain) just to hide the single gaming perf numbers at the end.
I thought that after Anand left , the site is regaining some of it's lost objectivity but i guess you are still full steam ahead when it comes to "supporting" certain industry players.
Who payed for that trip to M$'s event last week?
mva5580 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Yes, and you don't sound biased in any way whatsoever. "Bulky and very heavy" in comparison to what, exactly.You're choosing to classify it as a "tablet," can you give an example of a tablet with a similar form factor that is smaller, lighter, and cheaper that runs full Windows?
jjj - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Bulky and very heavy in compared to the vast majority of tablets. Do the math if you want for screen area per volume.How exactly is running Windows on 64GB of NAND and 2GB of RAM an advantage? If you are gonna just do Office and web browsing then you certainly don't need Windows. If yo want more, then you need more than this.As for the AR, it doesn't matter much and it's actually M$ trying to copy Apple and going just slightly different to not be called a clone. Pricing wise you can do 2x better.
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Ummm... Windows Tablets have been around for a long, long, LONG time. Archos 9, UMPCs, Mids, plus many, many more types.Geodude074 - Saturday, May 9, 2015 - link
Asus T100 Chi vs Surface 3- $450 for tablet/keyboard combo vs $630 for tablet/keyboard combo.
- 1.3 lbs vs 1.4 lbs.
- 1920x1080 vs 1920 x 1280.
- Same 2 GB RAM.
- Same 64 GB storage.
- Same full Windows.
- Z3775 vs Z8700 (the only advantage Surface 3 has).
Is it worth spending ~$200+ for the Atom x7? In my opinion, no not really.
devione - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Jesus Christ. I stopped reading at "bulky and heavy".If you find 622g bulky and heavy, you really need to get your life sorted out.
jjj - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
No tablet should be over 500G to begin with.How heavy it is, well, it has 20% more screen area than the ipad air 2 while being 43% heavier.
jjj - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
also for that 20% extra screen area ,it's 75% higher volume.if that's not bulky,what is?
AnyOny24 - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
You'd better stick with your iPad Air2 jjj. We wouldn't want you to strain any muscles lifting a heavy tablet.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
So.. You've never owned the iPad 1, 2 or or 4 then?!man just stop, please, it's silly. A tablet can be as light or heavy as it likes.
romprak - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Well, without any further ado - Pot meet Kettle.Anyone who writes M$ to stand-in for Microsoft is clearly the height of objectivity.
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
I own an Air 2 and, albeit quite light, please remember the weight of the previous iPads that people were perfectly happy with. The moment you try do anything other than mess around, with an ipad, that's where it starts to fall apart, Even text editing can be a painful experience.All I see in your post is bios that's finding ANYTHING to slam a perfectly acceptable product. I've pre-ordered the S3 and, although I do own the Air, the S3 will do FAR more than the Air can ever do. Heck... I'd like to copy comics to the Air but... Nope, have to jailbreak or email.
Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Your asspain is pleasing to watch.Alexey291 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
So its slow, the battery life is crap, the price point is far too high and its neither a tablet nor a laptop...Looks like another definite buy!
kyuu - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
It's more than fast enough, the battery life is adequate, the price is equivalent to an iPad Air 2 (and you get more for your money), and how isn't it a tablet again?But I'm sure you came into this with a totally unbiased viewpoint in the first place.
jimjamjamie - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
"Introducing the Intel z80x777iz-7x067z767x"Bloody hell.
nikon133 - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Very inclined to finally replace my old ThinkPad Tablet 2 with Surface 3.Better battery life would be good, but close to 8 hours of tablet-mode browsing and video watching should do.
In addition, I love how kickstand works on SP3 and it's presence - even in simplified form - makes big difference for me. Looking at scores, this might even be able to handle some light Lightroom work - the most demanding task I have for my laptop at present - so it could fully integrate my tablet and laptop needs, leaving me with tablet and desktop only. One device less to update, charge, maintain, buy in a first place - sounds good to me.
Novacius - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
In my opinion, it's too heavy compared to a iPad Air 2 or so. And it's too expensive: Its starts at 599€ in Germany, the Pro variant only costs 90€ more.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Then people moving from the Ipad 4 will be more than happy with the S3kyuu - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Thanks for the review, Brett. No more nagging from me. ;)The one thing I am missing is the Dolphin benchmark. Were you unable to run that?
As far as the S3 itself goes; while I cancelled my preorder for it, I only did so because I was able to get a good deal on a Core i5 SP3 on ebay. For the price, it's still a lot more capable than a comparably priced iPad, and I wouldn't have been sorry to have it. And iPads still don't have a built-in way to prop themselves up, which I consider an indispensable feature nowadays. I am disappointed that the storage is a bit on the slow side given that we have some pretty fast eMMC (not to mention UFS) nowadays. And the battery life results are a bit worrisome.
metayoshi - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
Dolphin benchmark on this thing? Believe me when I say this, my old Core i7-860 couldn't run Dolphin that well, save for a very few select games, and it's one of the reasons I upgraded to a Core i7-4790K last September. The Atom x7-z8700 is nowhere near the performance of the Core i7-860, and much is closer to the Core 2 Duo SU-7300 that was in the Asus UL30Vt that I had around the same time I built my Core i7-860 in early 2010. There's no question, this thing will suck running the Dolphin benchmark.I'm actually getting a Surface 3 myself, but it's definitely not for running the Dolphin emulator.
NA1NSXR - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
This was the tablet I was waiting for, except it isn't. The choice of Atom over Core M is unacceptable to me, so as hard it was to wait for an iPad-sized device to bring full Windows, I will have to pass.kyuu - Monday, May 4, 2015 - link
If this had Core M, the price would barely be less than a Surface Pro.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Core m? You do know that the Lenovo Yoga devices, with Core M, have a fan! You might as well just go for the Pro 3.zodiacfml - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Nice, but its kinda bit late considering laptops based on the Core M have been getting thinner and quite reasonable in cost especially the Asus.Or is it just pricing, for the price without the keyboard it is pricey even with the good display.
I can only see this good for business or work where a tablet is being used for business/company software.
meacupla - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
There's really one big difference between microsoft and asus.Microsoft will replace your product with little questions if you are dissatisfied with it, or it's really broken.
Asus will take you on a wild goose chase, if they ever admit there is something wrong with their product.
Luc K - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Battery life of both Yoga 3 Pro and the Asus T300 Chi are not anywhere close to this one.Then again completely different kind of devices.
This Atom CherryTrail CPU is actually newer than Core M but different kind of line of CPU's obviously.
MattVincent - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The 64gb doesn't bother me but the 2gb of ram seems like its just cutting corners. Price goes up way to fast once you add on the accessories. They shouldn't be charging for the pen.TEAMSWITCHER - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Ya think? I just checked MacMall.com, and I can get a 2015 11" MacBook Air for $819. That includes an Intel Core i5 CPU with HD6000 graphics, a decent keyboard, industry leading trackpad, PCIe SSD, Thunderbolt port, 2 USB 3.0 ports, and MagSafe Power. The display on the Surface might be a little better, but the atom CPU and archaic storage are very more worse.I own an 2013 11" MacBook Air and have found it to be a very capable machine. The screen is small, but workable thanks to OS X's excellent full-screen app / virtual desktop implementation. When I'm in my office, I connect it to my 27" monitor, Apple Keyboard, & Magic Mouse and use it like any other desktop.
The Surface 3 possesses only one redeeming quality - a Pen. How bad are you willing to let Microsoft screw you over for a Pen? If the answer is "brutally" then buy a Surface 3.
xthetenth - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The screen isn't just small, it's wildly archaic with a low res and bad panel technology. I'd also love to see you try to use the air as a tablet. If you don't need a tablet, don't get a tablet, get an ultrabook.RafaelHerschel - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I considered a MacBook Air, but the screen was unacceptable at the price point. I'm sure that will be rectified in the future, but for now there are inexpensive Windows alternatives with much better screens.AnyOny24 - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
If you want to talk about that price point you should talk about the Pro 3 core i5 which supports tablet mode / touch, the same pen you're talking about, bigger / better screen... silly comparison.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Or I can just buy the S3 along with a £20 BT keyboard.BlueBomberTurbo - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Actually, the screen on the Surface 3 is the best portable screen you can get next to maybe the new Macbook. The Air's screen was terrible for anything requiring any level of color accuracy. You know, the artsy stuff that you can apparently only do on a Mac.The other redeeming qualities are its size and weight. I know I bought it specifically for those and the screen, as a portable workstation for my photography. When you cram lots of lenses and a couple camera bodies in your backpack, you're already hauling around a good amount of weight. A well-spec'd laptop certainly isn't going along for the ride, too.
lokhor - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Worst thing about the dock on the SP3 is that the angle cannot be adjusted so its virtually useless if you want to have it set up as a secondary screendigiguy - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Laughing out loud at the "bulky and heavy" comment. This tablet weights less than the ipad 4 and I was not hearing people call that bulky and heavy.... Better, this tablet has a whole inch more screen surface that the ipad.... But this is partly the fault of reviewers that call this a 10 inches device, like the ipad.... Why the ipad, that is 9.7 inches, is 10 inches and this one, at 10.8, is not 11 inches? Increase the screen size of the air and the weight will also go up, while still being a bit lighter, not to mention ipad 4 and below.I have a 600g 10.1 inches windows tablet and it feels very light and pleasant to hold with one hand, just awkward with its 16:9 ratio. The surface will feel more balanced.
Concerning storage speed, the 128GB model offers better performance (see this accurate review for more details http://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-Surface-3-T...
Having said that, this is the performance with the encrypted SSD. Personally I decrypted the SDDs in all my tablets (Surface pro 3, HP Stream 8, etc.) and the performance, especially the sequential one, has significantly increased.
MrTetts - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The IPad is ALWAYS going to be an inferior product regardless of use case.1. For video/media consumption - you would have access to more media players, more content markets (than just the itunes store) and simply more choice overall.
2. For media/content creation - You do not even have this option (or intergrated well enough) on an IPad.
3. Basic office duties - We can all agree that any office applications on an IPad would be very watered down and frankly quite useless. If you have to buy a keyboard to access an application properly on an ipad, then my friend, I have news for you... your use case clearly aligns you to a surface 3.
An IPad is no where near up to par. You are getting a very big IPod Touch for your money. Don't give in to the marketing from Apple telling you you can be productive on an IPad...
V900 - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Oh my holy God! Amazing! Through some sort of quantum fluctuation in some internet backbone somewhere, a wormhole in space time has made your post appear three years into the future!Hello there Anandtech reader from 2012! We hear you loud and clear this is Anandtech 2015! As for your points, a lot has changed/will change from your perspective!
1: IPads in 2015 are better for using content... The vast majority of video is in MP4 formats. The few formats an iPad can't decode natively you can get a third party app for in the AppStore for a few dollars or free. As for content, the vast majority is available through the web or (usually) free third party apps.
2: Content creating: In 2015 its a clear win for the iPad if you want to use a touchscreen. It's not even close with Windows tablets. Adobe for example has over 20 apps for iPad. In your future and my present, even content creation suites that used to only be available for PC/Macs have an iPad app solution available as well.
3: Basic Office: everyone in your time that is skeptical about Microsofts plans are right. In 2015 there is a
multitude of office solutions for iPads, and even Microsoft have given up and gone all in on the platform... The MS Office for iPad is on par with the MS Office for Windows, and blows MS Office for Touch Windows completely out of the water. Microsoft of the future will bet big on iOS...
Take care 2012 Anandtech reader! Oh, I probably cant tell you much about this, but be careful with the middle east! There is a group in Iraq that you really shouldn't underestimate... They will wreck some major chaos later in the timeline if you don't try to stop them in 2012!
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Yet if you type one line of text on the ipad it's a great big pain in the rear to edit. Where's the back arrow key? I've an Air 2 and, being honest, it's a pain to use for anything serious. Heck the other day I just wanted to copy some comics onto the thing... usually I'd just slap them on but instead I had to place them onto the network, launch an app, log in and then read.The app situation will improve when Windows 10 hits but, until then, I'll be happy to just launch the FULL application.
digiguy - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
how much nonsense in a single post.... You probably don't know how to use Office and Adobe professionally.... or you live in 2015, but on a different planet... My ipad air is a great device, but that's far from being the machine to work on....Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
>MS Office for iPad is on par with the MS Office for WindowsIf you step aside from pure lulz one has with such a comment, it`s quite sad that sheeple actually believe that.
MrTetts - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Bottom line is...If you're in the market for an iPad. Consider the Surface 3 for the 'Just In Case' factor.
1. Just in case you want to edit a word document properly.
2. Just in case you want to create media.
3. Just in case you want to download movies/music from a website.
4. Just in case you want to use adobe products.
5. Just in case you don't want to connect the tablet to your TV.
6. Just in case you want to charge your phone using a tablet.
7. Just in case you actually want to write notes in class/during meetings at the office.
8. Just in case you want expandable memory.
9. Just in case you don't want to be locked into the apple ecosystem.
10. Just in case you save things to a memory stick, rather than a cloud which you get charged for.
and i could go on... Just consider the Surface 3.. Just in case.
V900 - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
OMG! The wormhole is still open!LOL! Read my other post Anandtech from 2012! Nothing on your list is accurate or will matter much in 2015...
Both Adobe and Microsoft have gone all in on iPads. Adobe has over 20 apps on iOS, and nothing on Windows that you'd bother running on a touchscreen or with a tablet class processor.
Don't consider the Surface 3. Not even for just in case. You can always get either a better laptop or a better tablet for the same
money. The Surface 3 is worthless, considering that for 500-600$ you can get an alright laptop AND an iPad mini: Beat of both worlds!
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Or a Surface Pro 3.Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Do they at least pay you for this drivel?kyuu - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
How in the hell is carrying two devices -- one of them a crappy laptop, the other a tablet with a small screen that's basically just an oversized iPhone -- the best of both worlds?BlueBomberTurbo - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Adobe only has mobile apps for iOS and Android. Not very useful for any serious production, and a stopgap measure at best until you get to a real computer. Surface 3 can run the real desktop software out of the box. And yes, you can use PS and LR, since I was able to use them on my Lenovo Thinkpad 8 (Atom Z3770 + 2GB/64GB), and the Surface 3 has a significant bump in GPU power.AlluringRaja - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Nice review. Thanks to AnandTech.romprak - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Great, thorough review - we are picking up ours this afternoon at our local BestBuy. Looking forward to playing around with it today. It will be replacing my wife's 2009 iMac that is on its last legs (overheats and I think the GPU might be failing, it gets really hot and Yosemite has just made things worse). She manages all her homeschooling and her own tasks on that computer. I'm going to give her my old 27" monitor for when she is docked at home (my Surface Pro 3 now runs a 34" Ultrawide Dell), but otherwise she can just use it on her lap for managing the kids' curriculum, etc.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
"This saves a bit of weight, but also prevents the keys from being folded behind and making for an uncomfortable device to hang on to"Have you ever thought of turning the keyboard around? You then hold onto the flat surface with the keys pressed to the back of the S3.
Brett Howse - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Nope I've never thought of that, but I think I'd still rather just take it off when needed.BlueBlazer - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
The 4GB RAM version has higher benchmark scores at http://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-Surface-3-T... possibly due to dual channel memory used. Will there be a review of that 4GB RAM version?Brett Howse - Tuesday, May 12, 2015 - link
Hi sorry for the delayed response on this I wasn't able to check dual channel with CPU-Z. The 2 GB model is dual-channel with 2x1GB DIMMs.yefi - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Liking the mini-dp on this. Shame it can't support 4k according to the SoC's datasheet, but it would be pretty sweet to hook this up to a 30" monitor in any case.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
I was under the impression that it DOES support 4k but only @30Hzyefi - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
It says the hdmi can do 4k @30Hz, but doesn't mention anything for displayport. Would be nice if it could do it.asfletch - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Reading and re-reading this review leads me to one conclusion - the Dell Venue Pro 11 7140 is a superb piece of engineering (if not design) and would be my ideal tablet, if not for the accursed 16:9 screen. It's also a deal-breaker on the T300 Chi. I guess I'm hanging out for a Core M SP4 (although I would prefer a slightly smaller tablet). Oh well.serendip - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Maybe I'm crazy... I use a Lenovo Miix 2 8" tablet with the older Bay Trail Z3740 as my main computing device and it's been good enough for more than a year. Office documents open fine, I can even run Linux VMs (mainly console stuff), the battery lasts 9 hours and with a portable keyboard, I have my office in under 800 grams.I paid a lot less than the Surface 3's price though. At $499, the Surface 3 is overpriced and the dock pricing is outrageous.
[email protected] - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
mix 2 8" is great, but this is a 10-11".$499 is a bit high (should be sold for $299-399) but the build-in kickstand along..believe it or not, is so important that its actually worth the extra $100...
Yes i have Dell Venue 8, Miix 2, and insignia 8" and they all run great with 1-2 gb of ram and battery lasts forever, all cost < $250
accessories are always overpriced for any model.
Luc K - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
The Miix 2 10" actually also started at $499 (you see now discounts since it's > 1 year old device with last gen slower Atom CPU).domski - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
How is pixel density related to backlight power consumption? The article implies the two are connected, but I don't see how.For an LCD, backlight power is usually just directly proportional to screen area and brightness. The pixel density may affect power consumption of the GPU and LCD driver hardware, and maybe also the liquid crystal matrix itself.
Is author (Brett Howse) mistaken? If not, can someone enlighten me about the connection between backlight power and pixel density?
Brett Howse - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
I'm going to pull in a quote from another article which sums it up nicely:"The increase in number of pixels (and transistors powering the display—one for each RGB subpixel) comes with a corresponding increase in the percentage of light being blocked by the transistors and filaments. Thus, the percentage transparent area for each pixel is lower, necessitating a significantly stronger backlight when pixel density is increased."
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/apple-ipad-2012...
Brett Howse - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
Also this is one of the advantages of IGZO TFTs is that the actual TFT (Thin Film Transistor) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_transistor is less opaque, so more light gets through as compared to Amorphous Silicon TFTs which are the standard (and cheaper) way they are done.buevaping - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
I looked at the Surface 3 at the store today. The sales guy and I were shaking are heads about entry level specs with 2 gigs of ram. "Why doesn't the Windows button not work?" "Oh It probably needs to be shut down and restarted." I don't need a touch device that badly.Luc K - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
You can disable the Windows button in the surface app. Not sure why you say 2 GB is major issue. Did you see any issues? Lots of tablets with Atom have 2 GB running 8.1.domboy - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Thank you for the wonderful review. While it makes sense to compare the Surface 3 to current product offerings, especially the Pro 3, I am slightly disappointed that there is not much in the way of comparison to the products it replaces - the Surface RT/2. I realize most of the benchmarks won't run on Windows RT, but the web browser tests and the store version of 3DMark could have been run, as well as some sort of battery life comparison. I'm going to assume that perhaps this is because you don't have older Surface models on hand, but I know this data has been gathered in the past and I think it might have been helpful to include for Surface RT/2 owners that may be considering upgrading.I do think it's a compelling product just to get proper pen support and x86 compatibility, though the RT jailbreak went a long way for me to be able to live with the original Surface RT which is what this would replace in my case. I do know the Asus T100 is faster than the original Surface RT, but I don't know how it compares to the Surface 2 speed-wise.
reynolds.jeff - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Excellent, well thought out article. I'm tired of hearing how you "can't edit video" on the Surface 3. No kidding - it's not meant for that. You balanced the shortcomings with the benefits, and further cemented my desire to have one (saving up as we speak). Bravo to you and AnandTech!deiruch - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
Was the type-cover-no-longer-works-after-folding-it-back-problem solved with this iteration? Anand wrote in the SP3 review that it still had this problem. I noticed this problem in S1, S2, SP1, SP2 and SP3...Luc K - Thursday, May 7, 2015 - link
One thing worth mentioning with the USB connector is that you can use now an external power battery. It may charge slower but that could be an important feature for some as you can extend runtime bit longer.serendip - Friday, May 8, 2015 - link
This trick also works with smaller Windows tablets like the Dell Venue 8 Pro. With a 10k mAh battery pack, you can go for days without charging and the same pack can also charge phones.serendip - Friday, May 8, 2015 - link
2 GB RAM surprisingly works even for running Linux server VMs, although running a desktop like XFCE is a stretch. I think it's only for video and photo editing that you would need 4 GB, at which point you should be looking at a Surface Pro instead.plm2678 - Friday, May 8, 2015 - link
2GB and Win8 are not a good match. I agree it may work for certain Linux workloads. This is 2015 and memory is cheap.serendip - Saturday, May 9, 2015 - link
No, I meant it's possible to run Win8 *and* Linux VMs together on 2 GB RAM. 4 GB should be the minimum on these new tablets though.plm2678 - Friday, May 8, 2015 - link
Since when is 2GB a "decent spec"? Microsoft should be ashamed of the specs of the $499 model as only the $599 even begins to be acceptable.eanazag - Friday, May 8, 2015 - link
Okay; splain me this:How does the tablet light battery test use more juice than the notebook light test?
Surface 3 gets 7.8 hours of web browsing on the tablet test while getting 8.5 on the notebook test. How does that happen?
As far as the conclusion that was made it, it basically only puts the Surface 3 over the Surface Pro 3 in the tablet chart.
eliz82 - Monday, May 18, 2015 - link
so ... when the first phone with full windows? a 5.5-6inch 1280x720px phone with full windows 10 will be great.TremecsSTi - Friday, May 29, 2015 - link
I just found there is a very large elephant in the room that in 259 comments nobody has brought up.I had read this review and was still on the fence about what to buy but was leaning toward the iPad Air 2.
I went in to the store determined to walk out with an iPad Air 2 if nothing else so I could learn the ecosystem (This is my 3rd attempt to do so but I always balk at the cost of Apple products).
After picking up both tablets and comparing them the weight difference did not bother me as much as I thought it would. The 128/4 gb Surface 3 was $599, the 64/2 gb iPad Air 2 was $589.
Looking at the lack of ports on the iPad I started looking at accessories to be able to connect it to everything, $30 to hook it up to my monitor, $20 to hook up my camera, $30 to hook it up to my TV, $89 for a keyboard, $69, for a mouse! $829 for the iPad Air 2 and I did not even get to the covers. So I am typing this from my $718 Surface 3 ($599 + the $119 type cover) with double the ram and double the storage, micro USB, Micro SD, USB, Micro HDMI built in.
Looks like Apple lost out again but I just cannot justify the cost versus what you get. The quality of Apple products is hard to beat but the Surface 3 is very close and with twice the storage and ram for less money I could not pass it up.
blackcrayon - Saturday, May 30, 2015 - link
The Surface 3 looks like it's only about half as powerful as the GPU in the iPad, I guess if you aren't doing anything graphically intensive (games) it won't matter... Otherwise I cringe at the idea of trying a 3D game that's expecting what's normally available on Windows (i.e. Windows games aren't going to be optimized to run on such a slow GPU).khanikun - Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - link
You do know that Windows does everything a tablet does and did it before tablets were on the market? Also anyone who's invested money into any platform will have a hard time moving off that platform to another completely different platform.As for mixed bag, it's an all-in-one type device. Every single all-in-one type device has compromises. I don't have the Surface 3, but I do have the Surface Pro 3. Works great as both a tablet and as a notebook, so long as you don't actually want to use it in your lap. That's the only real downside that I find.
Now, for the Surface 3, I find it being more of a resurgence of netbooks, except in an all-in-one tablet like device. A device that can do it all, albeit not great, but well enough. Not to mention it does it not quickly, as it uses cheap internals, to keep costs down. The problem with this is the fact that MS gave it cheap internals, but decided to build a quality chassis with quality accessories. So the price point was brought down, but not down enough to satisfy everyone's wants. Sure, MS could have built this thing in a cheap plastic chassis and provided no keyboard or stylus option at all and left consumers to fend for themselves and this would have brought the price down below that of less functional iOS/Android tablets, but this would have also infuriated many consumers.
Really though, I find that MS did this right, minus the keyboard. The price point isn't unreasonable, when compared to less functional iOS/Android tablets. It's size and weight is well below that of convertible laptops. I just dislike the keyboard. Not it's feel or function, just that when you set it up in it's elevated position, it makes using the taskbar via touch, downright useless. I find myself having to remove it from the elevated position to access the taskbar via touch or use the crappy touchpad.
Ferrr - Wednesday, December 2, 2015 - link
I have a Surface 3 LTE, purchased in October 2015 with all updates duly installed. On the screen appear random clicks, like if I was touching it (but I don't) at full speed, making appear menus, opening files, starting apps etc. making the device unusable.I had reset the device to no avail.
Additionally, I experienced other problems:
- "Autorotate on" appears on the screen when working with the keyboard attached (so, not rotating at all) stopping the device for some seconds.
- A full charge needs 5-6h, with the device plugged in and switched off. If you want to work while charging the device, you will have a hard time: it charges extremely slowly (12h minimum needed) and in most of cases, if you have 2 or 3 "normal" (not very high energy consuming) apps open at the same time (outlook, word, edge), the device will keep on discharging, even plugged in.
- The device loses battery when on sleep mode at a very alarming pace (around 5% per hour)
I purchased the device in the US and I work in Russia. Now, with a worldwide guaranty, and in spite of having a filial in Russia, Microsoft asks me to ship the device, to pay for the shipping, to be delivered the new one in the US, and to pay the shipping again to my home in Russia...
And the screen problem is known since 3 years, with thousands of people complaining on forums.
Shame to Microsoft to keep on selling these crappy devices.
If you don't know how to make computers and how to deal with customers, please stay away and let others like Apple do that.
I deeply regret the day when I entered the Microsoft store to buy this.
Someone else is experience the same ordeal?
q8wii - Friday, February 19, 2016 - link
Thank you