No, but it's become such a common convention that it might be harder to recognize the meaning and context without the capitals. It's written as if it's a filename extension, like DNG (even though from most cameras the letters used are different than R A W ).
So when I say "a RAW" it's kind of like a universal reference or wildcard for all the raw file extensions that includes NEF, CR2, RAF, PEF, and so on ... and yes, even RAW!
You might have to give this one up, boozed. Now 'normalcy' is an everyday word. Because of the 4th of July, people not only say "March 4th," they even write it! And 'healthful' has been abolished from our language.
The real benefit of raw is that I can process photos with the same tools/methodology I use for my real camera, such as being able to adjust color temperature and recover dynamic range in a way that's impossible with an 8-bit JPEG. The Nexus 5 in full-manual raw mode makes a usable if somewhat desperate backup cam. I've even created a color calibration profile for it via a Colorchecker Passport.
These sort of tests, where DNGs are blindly run through Lightroom, is a pure test of demosaicing (read: Bayer filter array de-mosaic-ing) and noise reduction algorithms, which is important for sure, but misses what raw allows a knowledgeable photographer to do beyond getting cleaner-looking JPEGs.
Does the HTC M9 support Android 5's new camera API? The nice thing about the Nexus' full implementation is it allows 3rd party apps like Camera FV-5 to shoot raw and have full access to manual exposure controls (shutter speed, ISO). I assume the M9, like a lot of recent Android 5 phones, still don't support the new API. I wonder if the upcoming LG G4 will have full "Camera 2 API" support.
I am sorry, there is just no comparison between the S6 and the other for a everyday camera phone user. It is simply light years ahead in low light. The iPhone 6+ looks like 3 year old technology net to it.
You're ever so slightly correct on the saturation, but it looks overexposed because it's compared to the other phones which were outputting woefully underexposed photos. The exposure in the second photos is very close to spot on.
What is the bit depth of those raw files? It's hard to talk about a raw file without knowing how much data it captures. DSLRs usually capture 14bits while cheaper cameras do 10 or 12 bits. There is very little to gain in a 10bit raw image compared to a standard 8bit image. Even 12bit RAW gives you far less latitude in than a 14bit image.
Not all DSLRs capture at 14 bits, and some that claim to apply lossy compression that probably affects image quality far more than 12 vs 14 bits. (i.e., search sony raw file compression). Also, high end Nikon DSLRs let you select whether raw files are 12 or 14 bit. I have one, and I think there's very little difference.
Seems to me that the RAW output just shows that the M9 has a poor sensor as none of the pictures are particularly clear and seem to lack detail, the RAW processed file seem almost washed out like the contrast was too high, would have been interesting to see a comparison with some of Nokia's top end phones.
Lorribot yu are woefully ignorant. The HTC One M9 uses the exact same sensor as the Nokia Lumia 930. The EXACT SAME SENSOR. So no the M9's sensor is not poor in the slightest. I bet you didn't know that did you? ANd I bet you will be too afraid to replay back. The only problem with the M9's camera is the post processing the software does. The Lumia 930 was praised for it's camera and the M9 has the exact same sensor. So nice time lorribot try and do some research so you don't look so stupid
Why someone would go through so much effort just to slightly enhance still crappy images? Those sensors are crazy noisy and have little latitude to start with, paired with glass comparable to the bottom of a beer bottle. There're really nothing to gain but to avoid bad postprocessing, however those images presented are actually the best example why RAW processing isn't necessary better than in-camera JPEG: Those look sterile and over processed while still not getting rid of the purple fringing (actually rather making it worse).
Could something be amiss with your M9? those huge purple flare/aberrations aligned with each light in the photos look horrible, none present in the other phones shots. Looks like reflections between filters on a real camera.
Because Joshua Ho has been trying his best to try to put a favorable light on the turd that is the M9 since the first (2) reviews. All that HTC advertising money that should have gone into engineering I guess, and hey I liked the M8.
Also, I have no idea why the I iPhone 6 Plus is tossed in the comparison when it's not even in the same category of phones nor is that popular, heck I'd rather see a Nokia 930. While I don't really want to say nice things about Samsung, in the comparison shots with the 6 Plus, there are a number of areas where it does have less noise and more detail, I find it confusing that Joshua Ho chooses to point out only areas where the 6 Plus is better. Oh wait, that's right, all that Apple advertising money.
A better sensor? Th M9 has one of the best sensors in terms of hardware on the market. Nokia use the exact same sensor in the Lumia 930. The only problem with the M9 is software. Also OIS is a joke on a smartphone. It gives you a placebo effect at best.
As several others have already pointed it, it's NOT the exact same sensor as the 930. You're trolling hard in this thread. OIS may not make a significant difference when shooting stills, but for videos the difference is enormous.
Back to back testing with an M7 (with OIS) versus an M8 (without OIS) evidences OIS making a substantial difference to low light stills, and a chalk and cheese difference to video. https://www.flickr.com/photos/109575772@N02/168213...
I've been using M9 for a while, and I think that a minor tweaking in the camera gives excellent results, the following should be set: contrast 0.5, saturation 0.5, and sharpness -2 or -1.5 and the ISO should be limited to 400 max 800. This will change the results drastically and the camera becomes even better than iPhone 6. The raw camera problem is when you set the ISO to automatic. It seems that HTC camera have a problem with ISO setting and processing, a manual management will give a huge difference. I hope anandtech can make such analysis and show what could happen with the camera results for such tweaks.
I'm aware of these tweaks. Setting higher contrast only reduces dynamic range, which isn't a good idea. Increasing saturation might help but the colors are generally accurate in my experience. Reducing sharpness helps with the oversharpening that occurs by default, but does nothing to dial back the significant noise reduction.
Even at low ISO, the M9's output isn't as good as it can be due to post-processing issues as shown in the article. Driving low ISO is also fundamentally a trade-off between shutter speed, and getting a clean shot from the M9 past 1/10 seconds is definitely a tall order.
The ability to drop to under ISO 40 might be useful too, looking more closely at the photos (lowest setting is ISO 100 right now). Apparently in auto mode, the camera sometimes chooses ISO 40.
This is irrelevant to 99% of people who have bought an M9. Pretty much nobody shoots Raw on a smartphone. Smartphone pictures are typically on Facebook or Twitter ten seconds after being taken, so the default settings need to just work without post-processing.
HTC messed up the M9 camera enormously and this doesn't change that.
Agreed. They need to clean up their processing. If they could jus to a straight up JPEG conversion from the DNG file, it would help a lot.
And man, the night shots do suffer for the lack of OIS. The S6 just destroys it in that department(the RAW shot isn't that bad, but the JPEG is a smeared mess)
For someone that just wants easy casual photos I have to say I would choose the s6 over any of these. The low light shots look way better then the other phones don't even see how some 1 could prefer a different one.
I completely agree, are my eyes broken? To me the GS6 images are much better than the other two, no contest at all. It seems to be a common mindset not just on Anadtech but on other big review sites, almost a refusal to accept that an iPhone can be bested at something.
Thank AT and Joshua, for closely covering Raw image capture and the processing toolchain... your site is among the few that seem to be following this development. Thanks especially for pointing out that the camera (phone) manufacturers need to release lens and sensor profiles to make use of the DNG captures.
With some good NR processing (Topaz Denoise in my case, plus Focus Magic for some sharpening), the low light RAW shots can beat the iPhone 6 Plus output with lower noise and more detail still, but the daylight shots can give a huge benefit over the iPhone this way.
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Gemuk - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Xiaomi Mi Note review coming soon HURRAHboozed - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Raw is not an acronym so it doesn't require capitals.ArmedandDangerous - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
TRIM isn't an acronym as well, but it is capitalized.DCide - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
No, but it's become such a common convention that it might be harder to recognize the meaning and context without the capitals. It's written as if it's a filename extension, like DNG (even though from most cameras the letters used are different than R A W ).So when I say "a RAW" it's kind of like a universal reference or wildcard for all the raw file extensions that includes NEF, CR2, RAF, PEF, and so on ... and yes, even RAW!
DCide - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
You might have to give this one up, boozed. Now 'normalcy' is an everyday word. Because of the 4th of July, people not only say "March 4th," they even write it! And 'healthful' has been abolished from our language.Allowing for RAW files is a small concession.
SeannyB - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
The real benefit of raw is that I can process photos with the same tools/methodology I use for my real camera, such as being able to adjust color temperature and recover dynamic range in a way that's impossible with an 8-bit JPEG. The Nexus 5 in full-manual raw mode makes a usable if somewhat desperate backup cam. I've even created a color calibration profile for it via a Colorchecker Passport.These sort of tests, where DNGs are blindly run through Lightroom, is a pure test of demosaicing (read: Bayer filter array de-mosaic-ing) and noise reduction algorithms, which is important for sure, but misses what raw allows a knowledgeable photographer to do beyond getting cleaner-looking JPEGs.
Does the HTC M9 support Android 5's new camera API? The nice thing about the Nexus' full implementation is it allows 3rd party apps like Camera FV-5 to shoot raw and have full access to manual exposure controls (shutter speed, ISO). I assume the M9, like a lot of recent Android 5 phones, still don't support the new API. I wonder if the upcoming LG G4 will have full "Camera 2 API" support.
RoadToNever - Sunday, July 2, 2017 - link
Are you willing to share the N5 colorchecker shots if you still have them lying around?Speedfriend - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
I am sorry, there is just no comparison between the S6 and the other for a everyday camera phone user. It is simply light years ahead in low light. The iPhone 6+ looks like 3 year old technology net to it.johnnycanadian - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
I don't know, to me the S6 images, especially the bottom one, look oversaturated and overexposed. I prefer the more natural look of the other cameras.misteroh - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
You're ever so slightly correct on the saturation, but it looks overexposed because it's compared to the other phones which were outputting woefully underexposed photos. The exposure in the second photos is very close to spot on.MykeM - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
The presence of light flare in both night time images taken by the S6 is a good indicator that the images are indeed hot/overexposed.RamTec - Sunday, May 3, 2015 - link
That's fine if you can contemplate buying an S6 that can't go a full day on its batterytheixrs - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Nice pics of UCLA!Zak - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
What is the bit depth of those raw files? It's hard to talk about a raw file without knowing how much data it captures. DSLRs usually capture 14bits while cheaper cameras do 10 or 12 bits. There is very little to gain in a 10bit raw image compared to a standard 8bit image. Even 12bit RAW gives you far less latitude in than a 14bit image.chlamchowder - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Not all DSLRs capture at 14 bits, and some that claim to apply lossy compression that probably affects image quality far more than 12 vs 14 bits. (i.e., search sony raw file compression).Also, high end Nikon DSLRs let you select whether raw files are 12 or 14 bit. I have one, and I think there's very little difference.
der - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Not raw enough!nafhan - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Very cool. Not enough for me to want an M9, but it does make me wish other OEM's (or the Google camera app) would start including this featureZoomer - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
The processed raws reminds me of film grain. Way better and muddy crap, imo. Wonder why algos hate noise that much.Zoomer - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Also, isn't this sensor LG G4's front sensor? Hmmm...Maxpower2727 - Sunday, May 3, 2015 - link
No, the G4 does not have a 20mp front camera.lorribot - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Seems to me that the RAW output just shows that the M9 has a poor sensor as none of the pictures are particularly clear and seem to lack detail, the RAW processed file seem almost washed out like the contrast was too high, would have been interesting to see a comparison with some of Nokia's top end phones.CoryMeetsWorld - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
Lorribot yu are woefully ignorant. The HTC One M9 uses the exact same sensor as the Nokia Lumia 930. The EXACT SAME SENSOR. So no the M9's sensor is not poor in the slightest. I bet you didn't know that did you? ANd I bet you will be too afraid to replay back. The only problem with the M9's camera is the post processing the software does. The Lumia 930 was praised for it's camera and the M9 has the exact same sensor. So nice time lorribot try and do some research so you don't look so stupidtahamsaglamHTC - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
Wrong. Toshiba T4KA7 is started its mass production in February 2015 and used only on the HTC One M9 to date.mpUK - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132099389@N07/173518...Daniel Egger - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Why someone would go through so much effort just to slightly enhance still crappy images? Those sensors are crazy noisy and have little latitude to start with, paired with glass comparable to the bottom of a beer bottle. There're really nothing to gain but to avoid bad postprocessing, however those images presented are actually the best example why RAW processing isn't necessary better than in-camera JPEG: Those look sterile and over processed while still not getting rid of the purple fringing (actually rather making it worse).mpUK - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Why do professionals shot RAW?lukewayne - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Could something be amiss with your M9? those huge purple flare/aberrations aligned with each light in the photos look horrible, none present in the other phones shots. Looks like reflections between filters on a real camera.daar - Friday, May 1, 2015 - link
Because Joshua Ho has been trying his best to try to put a favorable light on the turd that is the M9 since the first (2) reviews. All that HTC advertising money that should have gone into engineering I guess, and hey I liked the M8.Also, I have no idea why the I iPhone 6 Plus is tossed in the comparison when it's not even in the same category of phones nor is that popular, heck I'd rather see a Nokia 930. While I don't really want to say nice things about Samsung, in the comparison shots with the 6 Plus, there are a number of areas where it does have less noise and more detail, I find it confusing that Joshua Ho chooses to point out only areas where the 6 Plus is better. Oh wait, that's right, all that Apple advertising money.
Just trolling guys...
CoryMeetsWorld - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
The Nokia 930 has the exact same sensor exact same sensor as the M9. So there's nothing wrong with the M9 camera hardware. Nice try though.Laxaa - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
The 930 has a Toshiba sensor, yes, but not the same one as the M9.CoryMeetsWorld - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
A better sensor? Th M9 has one of the best sensors in terms of hardware on the market. Nokia use the exact same sensor in the Lumia 930. The only problem with the M9 is software. Also OIS is a joke on a smartphone. It gives you a placebo effect at best.Maxpower2727 - Sunday, May 3, 2015 - link
As several others have already pointed it, it's NOT the exact same sensor as the 930. You're trolling hard in this thread. OIS may not make a significant difference when shooting stills, but for videos the difference is enormous.RamTec - Sunday, May 3, 2015 - link
Back to back testing with an M7 (with OIS) versus an M8 (without OIS) evidences OIS making a substantial difference to low light stills, and a chalk and cheese difference to video. https://www.flickr.com/photos/109575772@N02/168213...zeus4466 - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
I've been using M9 for a while, and I think that a minor tweaking in the camera gives excellent results, the following should be set: contrast 0.5, saturation 0.5, and sharpness -2 or -1.5 and the ISO should be limited to 400 max 800. This will change the results drastically and the camera becomes even better than iPhone 6. The raw camera problem is when you set the ISO to automatic. It seems that HTC camera have a problem with ISO setting and processing, a manual management will give a huge difference. I hope anandtech can make such analysis and show what could happen with the camera results for such tweaks.JoshHo - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
I'm aware of these tweaks. Setting higher contrast only reduces dynamic range, which isn't a good idea. Increasing saturation might help but the colors are generally accurate in my experience. Reducing sharpness helps with the oversharpening that occurs by default, but does nothing to dial back the significant noise reduction.Even at low ISO, the M9's output isn't as good as it can be due to post-processing issues as shown in the article. Driving low ISO is also fundamentally a trade-off between shutter speed, and getting a clean shot from the M9 past 1/10 seconds is definitely a tall order.
CrazyElf - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
Is there any way to reduce the saturation on the Galaxy S6?An S6 with reduced saturation I think would give by far the best results of all of the cameras tested here.
It'd be interesting to see how the S6 would do with Raw images.
CrazyElf - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
The ability to drop to under ISO 40 might be useful too, looking more closely at the photos (lowest setting is ISO 100 right now). Apparently in auto mode, the camera sometimes chooses ISO 40.Mattus27 - Saturday, May 2, 2015 - link
This is irrelevant to 99% of people who have bought an M9. Pretty much nobody shoots Raw on a smartphone. Smartphone pictures are typically on Facebook or Twitter ten seconds after being taken, so the default settings need to just work without post-processing.HTC messed up the M9 camera enormously and this doesn't change that.
Laxaa - Sunday, May 3, 2015 - link
Agreed. They need to clean up their processing. If they could jus to a straight up JPEG conversion from the DNG file, it would help a lot.And man, the night shots do suffer for the lack of OIS. The S6 just destroys it in that department(the RAW shot isn't that bad, but the JPEG is a smeared mess)
Laststop311 - Sunday, May 3, 2015 - link
For someone that just wants easy casual photos I have to say I would choose the s6 over any of these. The low light shots look way better then the other phones don't even see how some 1 could prefer a different one.jamuk - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
I completely agree, are my eyes broken? To me the GS6 images are much better than the other two, no contest at all. It seems to be a common mindset not just on Anadtech but on other big review sites, almost a refusal to accept that an iPhone can be bested at something.EddyKilowatt - Tuesday, May 5, 2015 - link
Thank AT and Joshua, for closely covering Raw image capture and the processing toolchain... your site is among the few that seem to be following this development. Thanks especially for pointing out that the camera (phone) manufacturers need to release lens and sensor profiles to make use of the DNG captures.TrojMacReady - Friday, May 22, 2015 - link
With some good NR processing (Topaz Denoise in my case, plus Focus Magic for some sharpening), the low light RAW shots can beat the iPhone 6 Plus output with lower noise and more detail still, but the daylight shots can give a huge benefit over the iPhone this way.