Actually, at worst they charge $50 for 16GB. That's with the previous Gen Air, granted, but they still sell it. And I think that's less than they charged when it was first released, though I could be misremembering.
Apple charges $100 for the jump from 64 to 128GB iPad. Your snark would be more effective if you restrained yourself to points that are actually true (ie that MS also throws in 2GB of RAM).
To know whether these prices are comparable or not, we'd need to know something about the quality of flash in each case (eg the base speeds, the extent of over-provisioning, the energy per unit operation). These numbers certainly don't exist for iPads, and we don't yet know what they are for the Surface, so you don't really have anything to justify your complaints.
Thanks for the unnecessary hostility, first of all. No snark was present in my comment, contrary to your erroneous inference.
Second, Apple charges $100 for the jump from 64GB to 128GB, sure. They also charge $100 to go from 16GB to 64GB, and $50 to go from 16GB to 32GB (with the 1st Gen Air). So they are rather inconsistent on how much they feel NAND is worth.
Regardless, the only point I was making was that complaining about the cost of the Surface 3 upgrade is a bit off base. No one in the tablet segment gives you more for $100, and most in fact give you a lot less.
Damn name99 go over to dailytech with that attitude. What I was pointing out (and everyone else seemed to notice) is only Apple charges that much for the tier jump ($100) as Samsung, Motorola and pretty much any other manufacture of integrated computing charges at worst $79 between tiers (with $39-$50 being the most common.)
The fact it comes with a whopping extra 2GB DDR3 is completely irrelevent because this isn't a PoP SoC, the capacity bump isn't in form factor real estate but simply a higher density chip (at a cost difference of a few dollars on the BOM.)
So my original point stands, the $100 price increase is sheer milking of the "high end" consumer and holding back the status quo into buying the more limited model, which inevitably holds back innovation (look at the iPhone and how iOS is still forced to run acceptably on 512MB RAM because Apple didn't bump the capacity for years.)
No, you point DOESN'T stand because they're NOT charging $100 for 64GB of storage. They're charging $100 for 64GB of storage and double the RAM which is NOT as trivial as you make it sound. You just refuse to be wrong, that's all.
Even at $599 is a bargain, I've read the specs of the Atom x7 Z8700 in notebookcheck and they say it's comparable to Snapdragon 810, which the HTC One M9 has, so expect this tablet to get a similar performance than an Apple A8X CPU, the one on the iPad Air 2 (2014 model).
Likely, Cherry Trail does mainly focus on improving the graphical performance and not so much the CPU performance over Bay Trail, but hard to be sure yet because they haven't optimized Geekbench for Cherry Trail yet, the Cherry Trail drivers may not even be finalized yet, and the test was done with the 32bit test instead of the 64bit...
But it's not like you'd ever run anything but iOS on a A8X... While you have the choice of Windows, Android or pretty much any flavor GNU/Linux on the Cherry Trail... So other factors besides just raw numbers to consider...
Anandtech, please do a benchmark for the eMMC on the review. If this bottlenecks the systems, I would rather get cheap Cherry Trail laptop and fit an SSD on it. I know they are not the same, but I don't see why I would get them in premium price if they perform worst because of the eMMC bottleneck than $200-$300 plastic atom laptop
For laptops it'll be Braswell, Cherry Trail is strictly for the mobile range... But Braswell will replace the Bay Trail Celeron/Pentium models...
The eMMC performance has improved, they're not as slow as they used to be, and they can offer more RAM to further help compensate as even the tablet models can now support up to 8GB of RAM, though, we're still likely only to see 2 and 4GB offered for now until more models come out later... Like the Surface 3 MS just announced offers a base model with 64GB eMMC and 2GB of RAM or a model with 128GB eMMC and 4GB of RAM... both also will offer a LTE option later...
Yeah I think so too. The press image they generally use for the friction hinge shows a lot more levels than the one shown above. Really disappointing...I will have to try it out before buying one now otherwise it was an instant buy for my brother.
The graphics have been improved, Bay Trail used a Gen 7 (Ivy Bridge) GPU scaled to just 4 EU's... While Cherry Trail uses a Gen 8 (Broadwell) GPU with 8/12/16 EU's and should provide around up to 50% better graphical performance than Bay Trail...
Won't completely close the performance gap they have with other high end mobile GPU's but it should be much better than what they could offer before...
The slides mention both 50% and 2x, depending on which test is being referred to, 3D Mark is the 50%... Anyway, since it's based on Broadwell's Gen 8 GPU, it has a list of improvements that includes increased size of various GPU caches, better Hi-Z and tessellation performance, and increased Pixel clock fill rate. The GPU natively supports 2x MultiSample Anti-Aliasing in hardware... more advance Quick Sync, etc.
Generally, you'd see a 5-15% graphical improvement in performance for equivalent Haswell vs Broadwell parts that only give a 20% increase in EU's, but Cherry Trail really scaled up the GPU compared to Bay Trail and doubled to quadrupled the EU count...
So, there may not be much CPU performance improvement over Bay Trail but the GPU is definitely a improvement... and yes, it puts it in the HD4000 territory, as that also had 16 EU's... but keep in mind Cherry Trail is still a mobile SoC and uses a lot less power that a Core chip... Making the improvement pretty surprising even with the same number of EU's...
no kidding! When I was going back to school I essentially wanted a T100 with 4GB of RAM on board, but could not find anything in the category except for a horrible detachable HP that literally had purple polkadots on it... horrible. Thankfully found a great referb deal on a high-end laptop that more than fit the bill, but something like this new Surface would have been more ideal.
I've just bought a Thinkpad 10, which pretty much matches this - 4/128GD,64bit OS, Stylus, 1900 by 1200. Lenovo had a good sale around about President's day so it was ~$550 with the keyboard dock.
I think the more rigid keyboard makes it more of a secondary laptop but these look pretty nice too.
Honestly, at this price point, once you include the only theoretically optional keyboard and stylus, I feel like the T300 Chi is probably a better option.
Sure the screen ratio is just wrong, its stylus is an additional $40 and a bit of an unknown quantity and the reported battery life is concerning, though this has all been with the WQHD display not the entry level FHD one and if the new XPS 13 that could make a significant difference.
For me though these issues are clearly outweighed by more ram, more, faster storage, more powerful CPU and GPU and above everything else a traditional clamshell form factor that you know you are going to be able to use on your lap.
At $680 or $740 I am struggling to see why I would choose the Surface.
Finally! A lot of people were asking for Surface features and build quality with a lower priced Atom variant for the sub-$500 market and it looks like we got it.
Will need to see if it is plagued by the same issues I had with the Asus T100 (never sure if this was platform/RAM or eMMC sluggishness).
Questions I have: 1) 64-bit OS? Bay Trails were mostly limited to 32-bit. This doesn't look to be Win8.1 Pro either. 2) Pen included? 3) Same battery life?
Overall I think the price needs to come down $100 on both or include the type pad as I think it gets too close to the i3 SP3 with a LOT of trade-offs. As a pure tablet it looks to be priced around the same as iPad Air 2, but the A2 can be had for less than MSRP now that it has been on the market for awhile.
Will definitely check these out at BB or MS store when they hit.
I suspect it's a 64-bit OS, but obviously I have no way of knowing. The pen is not included, but it is supported. It's an extra $50.
Battery life would presumably be a small step up, from the SP3, but maybe equal with the SP4.
While I do think the price could drop $50, this is still a nice, well priced tablet, even with the accessories taken into account. With a type cover, pen and the 128GB model, I think you come out roughly $150 cheaper than the i3 with a type cover. Not quite as cheap as it should be, but keep in mind it has double the storage, so it's not too bad overall.
If the SP3 made Microsoft a profit, I think the S3 is going to turn the line into a real success. I suspect the sweet spot is going to be in the 4GB 128GB model!
Not to mention that Microsoft is fond of launching with a high price and then giving discounts. Just look at the Lumia 635. Launched at $150+ and now you can get one for $50.
Personally I think it's stupid. They should kick off with the lowest price they can to get market share but what do I know...
Yeah saw the 4GB variant and that would indicate support for 64-bit OS support. I guess the battery life is offset by the smaller dimensions, smaller battery, lighter weight. Will be interesting to see how close it performs to the i3. The extra 2GB and 64GB storage is nice, but as someone else mentioned above, it will be key to see if it is fast SSD or slow eMMC.
But yeah, I do think it will be a success and I'm glad to see MS stuck with the Surface line long enough to create a winning formula. The Pro 3 was obviously great and they finally shed the burden of RT/ARM on the non-Pro line to address the sub-$500 market. With some back to school specials I think it will take off if/when it hits $400-500. The SP3 for example saw a lot of great deals right at launch (I got my wife the i5 128GB SP3 for ~$780 right at launch with $150 PM and 10% BB rewards).
It's eMMC. That doesn't mean it's slow -- good eMMC nowadays is no slouch, and still miles better than an HDD. Only slow compared to a full-fledged SSD.
1) Access to the full 4GB of RAM instead of the ~3.3GB you get on a 32-bit OS 2) Ability to have one process use more than 2GB of RAM 3) Better access to drivers since most are 64-bit now 4) Performance boost from software that can take advantage of 64-bit 5) 64-bit Chrome is a decent chunk more stable than 32-bit Chrome 6) More security by enabling things like data execution protection, requiring signed drivers, etc.
The differences really aren't earth shattering, but at this point there are a bunch of smaller benefits to 64-bit Windows, and no real drawbacks.
That isn't entirely true, there is a big drawback on devices with smaller storage amounts: the footprint of the OS and file size for the apps. 64 bit code is quite a bit fatter..
You don't need 64-bit code to benefit from a 64-bit OS, tons of 32-bit apps at 3-4GB each are still going to run better on a 64-bit OS compared to a 32-bit OS.
Same reason Vista 64-bit was miles better than Vista 32-bit, beyond the obvious 3+GB addressable, per app RAM usage can exceed 2GB, and that extends into pagefile too (which is much faster on eMMC/SSD compared to HDD).
Browsers alone take ridiculous amounts of RAM if you allow them to, so yeah I wouldn't want them to be restricted to 2GB per app and 3GB total system.
This is Cherry Trail, I need to see benchmarks first but I think that this device will fit my needs better than my T100. Yes, it will be more expensive than the T100 was at launch or the T100 chi now, but, it has better screen (1920x1280 is 3:2), better build quality (magnesium body), better SoC, more memory and and more storage.
Branding/iteration as Surface 3 also corroborates rumors Microsoft won't change the # designation of the Pro, will most likely just be UEFI and under the hood changes (updated CPU/platform and maybe a Core M option or two).
Makes sense as their Surface line has finally hit primetime and critical acclaim with the 3 designation, I think this non-Pro version will also be popular but I think it would've done better if all models fell clearly under the $500 price point ($400 and $500 for the 64/128 respectively).
300$ would be ok for anyone that needs a Windows tablet (hard to see a reason though) or a netbook (except the keyboard is absurdly priced). But the worst thing is that this product has to reason to exist. Everybody wants to earn billions without working for it at all.They are just releasing random garbage and hope consumers are stupid enough to buy it. What have they done to make this product stand out in any way at all? Why make it?Why would anyone buy it? Same uninspired kickstand, same photo frame design,same puke inducing UI... Last year Microsoft spent 11.4 billions on R&D (Apple spent 6 billions), they could have spend 2 cents on this thing to create something relevant but they can't be bothered , just like pretty much everybody else, to make an effort. This sector is supposed to make the impossible possible and that requires work and the will to get there. We are very lucky that chip makers are not behaving like this and they still try.
I've been waiting years for someone to make a higher end or premium Atom hybrid, the whole RT detour delayed this on MS' part but I'm glad they finally got there. I think it's brilliant, maybe step outside your bubble for a bit...
I mean, given the profit, at the already premium price, the SP3 is pulling, I assume Microsoft doesn't mind too much...
I definitely see a reason for the S3 to exist. I have at least five friends who held off on a SP3 that they loved because it was too expensive. While anecdotal evidence goes only so far, I imagine I'm not alone. That, plus it being the only affordable stylus enabled PC - I think it'll do pretty well.
Surface is actually a great form factor and solution that addresses the problem the tablet market has been facing for years: functionality beyond simple content consumption.
The Surface line is important because it does the best job of bridging full Windows x86 (and all legacy programs/apps that entails) with the form factor and portability of a tablet with the best *INPUT* options for a tablet, while also giving the option for a competent laptop experience.
So while you may not have a use for it, business/enterprise users, students, artists/architects all find it is the best tool for the job and certainly better than any other tablet option on the market.
lmao Best input for a tablet is the keyboard in your opinion? That's a laptop. And may i remind you 10inch ,slow SoC , no storage is a netbook experience. And you fully miss the point, it's not original in any way , just another insipid product. Some people are acting like M has invented the convertible today. You can easily buy lots of much better Windows convertibles for a lot less.
And those way better Windows convertibles for this price point are...?
And they didn't say that a keyboard is the best input for a tablet, they said that the Surface line gives you the best input options, AKA a decent stylus but still having the ability to use it as a laptop if you need to.
This device is light years away from what we used to experience with Netbooks, Atom isn't such a dirty word anymore. What does screw Atom designs over is when companies pair it with other subpar components (looking at you storage).
The Lenovo Miix 2 10 inch is 300$ now on Amazon with the keyboard included. Full HD, 2GB RAM, 64GB NAND, Win 8 but not the new Atom, an older Atom so slightly slower.( for anyone reading this, the Miix is just an example not a recommendation, if you are tempted to buy it do your homework and research it). This thing is 500$ plus 130$ for the keyboard. And this was just an example,there are lots of other devices out there. And BTW the best phone SoCs are faster and current notebooks are using this kind of SoC too so take it easy with the hyperbolic claims.
Yeah sounds like the Asus T100, decent device, but not what people are looking for in a device of this type. They want a better tablet experience with a competent laptop experience, if they wanted a laptop they can buy any of a hundred cheap Ultrabooks or a MacBook Air.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 10 inch miix doesn't come with a stylus and it's limited to 2GB. Personally I don't care about the keyboard, I would want something that has a decent stylus and at least 4GB so that I could run stuff like Mangastudio.
The build quality on the SP3 is also awesome, so if this follows suit I would gladly pay the extra for that.
And BTW it's not a hyperbolic claim, whenever someone mentions netbooks nearly everyone thinks pre-ultrabook atom era. The new atoms do fine against the latest smartphone SoCs and most people are willing to fork out absurd money for those. This device isn't for you, fair enough, but there is clearly a place for it.
No, the best input for a TABLET is a stylus. If you want keyboard/laptop functionality, you can get it too and while its not as good as a full blown keyboard it is close without nearly as much bulk or rigidity as a laptop or even 2-in-1.
You obviously haven't used even a 1st-gen Bay Trail product because it certainly isn't a netbook experience. 128GB is plenty of storage especially given you can use a microSD for more storage for non-apps, just data type. On top of that you have cloud storage if needed.
And they did invent the convertible lol. Look at what was available before...Intel was still pushing their Ultrabook, now Ultrabooks are shifting and Intel is pushing their 2-in-1s which are OK products, but not NEARLY as good in tablet mode as the Surface products.
The point is anyone who wants a convertible can get one, but no one really wants one because that's the insipid product that no one really cares about because its old hat and doesn't allow any additional functionality as previous laptops.
jjj....not trying to nitpick, but as a second language learner I can appreciate feedback when I make a mistake. Instead of a number followed by billions, it's just billion without the s. Just offering a hand and not intending to be a jerk.
Kind of disappointing we aren't seeing USB Type C yet on mobile Windows devices... Outside of that this looks great, it's what the Surface line should've embodied all along, die RT die! With education discounts these will be hot sellers IMO.
This thing looks like it could easily replace both my laptop and tablet. Hmm, something to think about when I drop my current tablet down the stairs. Are they still charging $100 for the keyboard? Microsoft needs to come down on those, it pushes their total cost way over ASUS's convertables. Sure you get better build quality, but you also lose out on lap usability. If Microsoft really wanted to slaughter the competition they'd include a type cover. Even if they just offer it as an incentive in their own stores "free type cover with Surface" is a great promotion idea. Let the user pick the color and they'd have another "$50 off Xbox One" type success and right now Microsoft needs to move more units to gain mindshare more than they need to make a big profit on each unit.
To be honest, I still would love the option to 'cripple' Windows 10 the same way Windows RT was supposedly crippled. Not for myself, but for people like my parents. Every time I visit them, there's like 20 different browser toolbars installed, a bunch of spyware, etc. I would love to be able to flip a switch in Windows 10 to prevent them from installing anything (other than desktop Office) that doesn't come from the Windows Store (akin to OS X's 'Gatekeeper' setting, or an 'RT mode' if you will).
Limited user accounts are not nearly as locked down as RT was. You can still run many .exe files and even some installers as a limited user (Chrome's installer is specifically designed around this).
In contrast, Windows RT (yes, partly because it is ARM only of course) only let you run signed code directly from the Windows Store.
Parentally control the limited account from an admin account to prevent running of exe files.
In principle RT should be easier to lock down but its a new system and parental controls are not as well developed yet on it. Certainly easier to manage though as the system controls updates automatically.
Just FYI - This is going to sound backwards but you could set them up with a "childs" account and control their installs with MS Family Safety, you can also lock down the store app by changing it to a different account that is password protected and require the password in order to install any apps from the store. I understand what you're saying though, with store apps they really can't get into too much trouble other than filling us their storage space. I have deployed 25 Surface tablets for our field technicians, I lock the store down using a master account so that they must enter that password to purchase any software, other installations and browser activity is limited via Family Safety. I understand your frustrations!
This does not require any kind of email montoring or getting into their personal data. You would just backup their storage, remove their account and add the account back to the tablet as a child's account while you were logged in as the Admin.
I'd be interested in trading in my ipad Air for this thing if the CPU has enough power to run older PC games, especially dos classics like MOO, X-COm, etc. It would be really nice having an ipad-sized device which can run firefox with adblock and play real pc games instead of app-store crap.
Baytrail could already easily handle any older games, from your DOS based ones through Starcraft, emulation up to PSone/N64/Dreamcast, and lots of indie titles and older Steam games. Cherry Trail should only do even better. I'm hoping it can manage GameCube emulation. (Metroid Prime on-the-go? Yes please.)
I don't know if this can run Gamecube emulation smoothly as I had a desktop with a Core i7-860 and an AMD Radeon 7870 that would still significantly stutter playing certain Gamecube games like Metroid Prime or Skies of Arcadia Legends. I don't know how well Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge performed, but it wasn't until I dropped money on my current Core i7-4790K that I could play those two games smoothly. If Cherry Trail isn't up to par with that old Core i7, there's no way this system will be good enough for Metroid Prime on the go. It would be nice though.
Oh and Sandy Bridge performs just fine. My i5-2500k can run any GameCube game on Dolphin with all the options turned to max. Unfortunately this still isn't likely to get anywhere near the performance of full wattage Sandy Bridge.
The device scores about 3500 points on geekbench for multicore performance. That's about equal to the Core-M5Y10 the latest macbook has. Half the single core performance but with 2x the cores it evens out.
lovely piece of hardware and the price isn't bad neither. but i think they should have included 4gb of ram on all models. i'd also love to see a 256gb version and an option for 8gb of ram, even if it adds another 100 bucks to the price.
still not a bad proposition for a modern day convertible. i especially like the resolution since it's not as overkill as on some other devices, yet you get a nice and sharp workspace with 1280 vertical pixels.
i think MS is on the right track with its surface line, the only thing i'd still love to see are some more substantial laptop docks, because kickstand + type cover still leaves something to be desired in that regard.
256GB model gets into the realm and pricing of a Surface Pro 3. A clear division between the two eliminations people wavering between the two (and may end up not getting anything).
Yeah, I'm not sure where the author got that from. If it is the 3-position, then that's the same as the 2nd gen surfaces, but different from the 1st gens and the SP3. Including this new Surface, that would bring the total percentage using the 3-position kickstand to 50%, which doesn't really qualify as "standard".
Great little device, improves everything over Surface 2 and some things even over SP3. 1. Lighter, even than the RT ones, this thing is close to my W510, so great to hold with one hand, but with a bigger screen 2. 3:2 ratio, which at 10.8 inches makes it better than ipad to read books, while still being light 3. up to 128 GB, this is better than my SP3 I3, although it remains to be seen if this is proper SSD 3. microUSB charging, great for using power banks 4. top Atom CPU, if this is significantly better than Z3795 this could be quite close to the SP3 I3 5. fanless 6. 64 bits (to use the 4GB of RAM) 7. great resolution, the perfect balance for this size on Windows 8. full USB 3.0 (type C would only be a plus if it can use the full bandwidth, unlike the new Macbook) 9. improved kickstand over S2/SP2 (but not as good as SP3) 10. accessories not included but possibility to reuse the SP3 pen 11. SP3 like keyboard mechanism, in addition it seems quite close to full size (to be tested)
For #3, it's eMMC. Baytrail only supported eMMC storage, and the specs for the Atom x3/5/7, which we've had for a while now, show it only supports eMMC (albeit a newer revision).
Why people think it would use full SSDs I have no idea.
Well, I wondered because it's a new CPU, it's a bit like the 64 bit support, Atom didn't support is until Z3795. Also, from what I have read, some newer eMMC are getting closer to sata SSDs. Personally I would give up some speed to double the storage in my SP3 i3 (but keep the i3 CPU).
Yeah, the newer eMMC, which I'd hope they're using, is pretty speedy. Not going to match a full SSD of course, but for normal usage you probably won't see much difference. Still miles better than an HDD.
From Intel's slides it appears the intention is that the PCIe lanes will be used for WiGig. Since they are apparently unused in the S3, though, I wonder if there will be any way to utilize them for something else, like adding storage.
I'm tempted. Throw in some "back to school" discounts and perhaps I'll bite.
Looking forward to seeing what kind of performance it packs. As a designer I want as good performance as possiel, but I have a decently specced computer at home(and one at work as well) to do all the heavy task, so something light and reasonably specced for metings and travel would be right up my alley(I'm seeing people quoting that Geekbench has it at around Core M levels in multithreading. It's four cores vs two, but it's still pretty impressive at that price point)
My education discount shows $50 of each model through the MS store. I'd like to see another $50 to really drive people to purchase. I have been planning on purchasing an SP3 but have enough powerful clamshell and portable devices in my lift right now that I can't justify it. With this though, I think I could probably sell my personal Surface tablet and my older Asus 2-in-1 Android tablet and break even on a Surface 3 with stylus and keyboard. My main draw to the SP3 was the stylus for school notes after all. With 64-bit WIn8.1 I can install any necessary x86 software, use a USB port replicator/dock, and still do everything that I would have with the SP3. I'm really like the idea of this!
It's a mistake. Microsoft already has a flagship hybrid tablet/laptop in the Surface Pro models.
Microsoft needs to stay in the pure tablet market until it succeeds. It's a huge market and giving a customer who wants a touch-only tablet a device with a hybrid OS is giving him a substandard and hard-to-use product.
Until Microsoft creates an os that can has desktop only/hybrid/tablet modes there will be a need for a pure tablet os (Windows RT) and a pure desktop OS (Windows 7) as well as the hybrid one (Windows 8.1).
Speak for yourself... I have no interest in a tablet only device, so when the Surface line came out I had to have one. I love my Surface RT and have run desktop apps on it since day one. I actually use the desktop more than modern ui, but I like having both. Sure I'd love a Prod3 but I can't really afford one, but now that there is an Atom-based Surface I seriously hope I can get one sometime. It would fix everything wrong with an RT-based Surface, even one with the jailbreak.
The Pro 1 and 2 weren't really interesting due to weight and battery life.
I wonder if the LTE version will have GPS? With a bluetooth headset this thing could replace all my carry-around electronics :) (phone, laptop, mp3 player, camera...)
Well, unless you're going to use Skype exclusively, it'd have a hard time replacing your phone. Besides, carry a cheap phone and use it for calls and tethering your wifi-only S3. Then you don't have to wait and save money.
Oh, also, the camera is ok but not in the same league as good smartphone cameras, so it wouldn't be great for replacing your camera either. Again, better off with your phone for that (not as awkward as taking pics with your tablet either).
Ian, Will you please test some games on this, such as civilization V and other light games. I could see using a monitor and a keyboard at my desk and taking this to another room when I don't feel like being chained down to my usual spot. This could be a good desktop substitute for folks that do mostly internet and casual use.
The price for the Surface 3 (4 GB / 128 GB) model in Canada is $769.00 CAD. The Type Cover is $159.99 CAD and the Surface Pen is $49.99 CAD. Together that's $978.98 CAD before tax or $1106.25 CAD after tax (13%).
Thanks to the high USD, the price increase in Canada is considerable. Not exactly an affordable option for students.
You don't need to confirm whether this is N-trig or not as it will be 100% N-trig. N-trig had been bought by Microsoft, why would they use other competitors product just after they acquire the company?
18 months ago I bought a Medion Akoya convertible from Aldi. Its specs are: Bay Trail Celeron Quad at 1.86GHz 4GB RAM 64GB emmc 500GB HGST HDD in keyboard 2nd battery in keyboard 1xUSB3,1xUSB2,micro HDMI,headphone port,charging port in tablet 2xUSB2,charging port in keyboard 1920x1080 IPS 10 point touchscreen Windows 8.1 64 bit OS AC wireless and bluetooth AU$600
It has never missed a beat with good battery life. Now we get 1 USB port and think it's OK. I like the screen height though.
If this is the Medion I saw at Aldi (P2212T), this thing weighs almost as the original Surface and is 1,7 KG with the keyboard, while this surface is around 900g with the keyboard. Also one of the main strengths of the Surface (pro) 3 is the aspect ratio, more similar to ipads, that makes it usable in vertical position to read pdfs, etc. I have a couple of 16:9 windows convertibles and their are more similar to netbooks than to tablets. When I bought the Surface pro 3 (I3) I wanted a tablet first (I already had an ultrabook) to read documents and annotate them (the stylus is another major plus), that could also be a light and usable laptop as a bonus.
Imagine MS comes with this product on day of official release of Windows 10 offering 128/4GB model for $399 including keyboard....my point is MS should attract mass market with good price, not only to target businesses especially with very average Atom inside.
Yeah and piss off and bankrupt the OEM partners in this process, Microsoft is rightly targeting the Mid-High end market with Surface 3 and Surface Pro 3, they need not price their premium products at prices which are lesser than toys like ipad. Regarding Atom x7 performance, lets wait and watch for Anandtech review before announcing it as average , intel surprised last time with Baytrail performance and we should wait for Cherrytail performance reviews.
Agreed, let's wait for Anandtech to review it first. My prediction for conclusion section is : Atom based windows 8.1 tablet with $120-150 extra for keyboard (which Surface 3 is) gives user the very same experience as any $200 Android ips tablet.
The only difference is windows os itself but for even half serious work on the go when windows apps are used Atom simply does not cut it.For that i5 or i7 comes in play where premium price could be justified but not for Atom.
MS is probably getting Atoms from Intel for free.Even if MS made only $50 per unit but sold 7-10 million units easily ($399 including keyboard) it would be a huge success. With current pricing plans MS will not sell that many and what is worse people don't get hear about Surface at all. Surface lives on IT sites like this one, sits on tables of very few IT enthusiasts or businesses only. And that is not enough.
You better look at Surface pro 3 sales for the last quarter of 2014. Having said that, MS is not interested to be in competition for the low-end. And this product is far from a $200 Android tablet. According to the first tests, this new Atom chip has 90% of the power of the I3 in SP3. And the i3 (which I have) can run a lot of professional software. You are not very up-to-date concerning Atom. The top of the line is no longer a netbook CPU.
Microsoft would be digging their own grave, if they released a fully featured Surface, like what you're describing, for 500$ or less.
All the OEMs would immediately react with what is MS's nightmare scenario, and one of the only big threats to their desktop dominance: Going all in on Chrome OS.
For every laptop or desktop they release running Windows, they'd release a version running Chrome for 1-200$ less.
The Windows RT fiasco has probably ruined the Surface brand for Microsoft.
Out of all the Surface models released, only the Surface 3 Pro has been a moderate success, so it's doubtful whether this will be any more of a smash hit
For casual users its overpriced, though most of those would be better off with an iPad anyways.
For the professional users who need a keyboard, an ultrabook (or MacBook Air) gives you a better and more powerful experience in the same price range.
And if you're a professional who insists on a tablet, the huge iOS ecosystem make the iPad the obvious choice. Sure, there are a plethora of old Windows programs that'll run on the Surface, but using mouse based apps on a tablet, is a pretty awful experience.
Oh look, all the same arguments that have been presented since the Surface line was first introduced, and which totally ignores that the Pro line has been very popular with professionals since its inception. The SP3 has been particularly well received.
Desktop apps are actually quite usable, even on an 8-inch screen, actually. I use them on my DV8P. And there are plenty of Metro apps if you want a touch-oriented experience.
And professionals using iPads? That's pretty funny.
Oh, and please show me the $500 ultra book that offers a good tablet experience.
In reality, this competes price-wise with the iPad, but gives you a lot more for your money unless you're already heavily invested in the iOS ecosystem.
Also if you really want to run mouse-heavy software that can't be done with either touchscreen or touchpad, you can just use a mouse. It runs Windows. It has a USB port. Wired, wireless, mini or full size. Whatever you want, done.
I haven't researched much into it but I heard about Hyper-V being disabled on the Surface 3s. Is there anyway to run a virtual machine for a Win 7 program I'm trying to use?
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Mobile-Dom - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
do we know what type of storage it uses? eMMC? UFS? M.2 SSD?kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Almost certainly eMMC, like. Baytrail before it. Definitely not M.2.kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Here's the spec sheet on the Atom x7 (far right column) for reference: http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015...Samus - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
$100+ for 64GB more storage? Who do they think they are, Apple?kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
$100 for 64GB storage AND 2GB more RAM. Also, Apple charges $100 for 32GB don't they? Or even 16GB?Tegeril - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Apple's tiers are 16/64/128. So at worst, they charge $100 for 48GB.kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Actually, at worst they charge $50 for 16GB. That's with the previous Gen Air, granted, but they still sell it. And I think that's less than they charged when it was first released, though I could be misremembering.name99 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Apple charges $100 for the jump from 64 to 128GB iPad. Your snark would be more effective if you restrained yourself to points that are actually true (ie that MS also throws in 2GB of RAM).To know whether these prices are comparable or not, we'd need to know something about the quality of flash in each case (eg the base speeds, the extent of over-provisioning, the energy per unit operation). These numbers certainly don't exist for iPads, and we don't yet know what they are for the Surface, so you don't really have anything to justify your complaints.
kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Thanks for the unnecessary hostility, first of all. No snark was present in my comment, contrary to your erroneous inference.Second, Apple charges $100 for the jump from 64GB to 128GB, sure. They also charge $100 to go from 16GB to 64GB, and $50 to go from 16GB to 32GB (with the 1st Gen Air). So they are rather inconsistent on how much they feel NAND is worth.
Regardless, the only point I was making was that complaining about the cost of the Surface 3 upgrade is a bit off base. No one in the tablet segment gives you more for $100, and most in fact give you a lot less.
Samus - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Damn name99 go over to dailytech with that attitude. What I was pointing out (and everyone else seemed to notice) is only Apple charges that much for the tier jump ($100) as Samsung, Motorola and pretty much any other manufacture of integrated computing charges at worst $79 between tiers (with $39-$50 being the most common.)The fact it comes with a whopping extra 2GB DDR3 is completely irrelevent because this isn't a PoP SoC, the capacity bump isn't in form factor real estate but simply a higher density chip (at a cost difference of a few dollars on the BOM.)
So my original point stands, the $100 price increase is sheer milking of the "high end" consumer and holding back the status quo into buying the more limited model, which inevitably holds back innovation (look at the iPhone and how iOS is still forced to run acceptably on 512MB RAM because Apple didn't bump the capacity for years.)
Alexvrb - Saturday, April 11, 2015 - link
No, you point DOESN'T stand because they're NOT charging $100 for 64GB of storage. They're charging $100 for 64GB of storage and double the RAM which is NOT as trivial as you make it sound. You just refuse to be wrong, that's all.visio_del_amor - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Even at $599 is a bargain, I've read the specs of the Atom x7 Z8700 in notebookcheck and they say it's comparable to Snapdragon 810, which the HTC One M9 has, so expect this tablet to get a similar performance than an Apple A8X CPU, the one on the iPad Air 2 (2014 model).retroneo - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
A8X is way faster. Not even close in Geekbench:A8X: 1808/4529 (single/multi)
Z8700: 990/3451
zeo - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Likely, Cherry Trail does mainly focus on improving the graphical performance and not so much the CPU performance over Bay Trail, but hard to be sure yet because they haven't optimized Geekbench for Cherry Trail yet, the Cherry Trail drivers may not even be finalized yet, and the test was done with the 32bit test instead of the 64bit...But it's not like you'd ever run anything but iOS on a A8X... While you have the choice of Windows, Android or pretty much any flavor GNU/Linux on the Cherry Trail... So other factors besides just raw numbers to consider...
Alexvrb - Saturday, April 11, 2015 - link
Geekbench is horrible when comparing cross-platform. :(philliphs - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Anandtech, please do a benchmark for the eMMC on the review. If this bottlenecks the systems, I would rather get cheap Cherry Trail laptop and fit an SSD on it. I know they are not the same, but I don't see why I would get them in premium price if they perform worst because of the eMMC bottleneck than $200-$300 plastic atom laptopzeo - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
For laptops it'll be Braswell, Cherry Trail is strictly for the mobile range... But Braswell will replace the Bay Trail Celeron/Pentium models...The eMMC performance has improved, they're not as slow as they used to be, and they can offer more RAM to further help compensate as even the tablet models can now support up to 8GB of RAM, though, we're still likely only to see 2 and 4GB offered for now until more models come out later... Like the Surface 3 MS just announced offers a base model with 64GB eMMC and 2GB of RAM or a model with 128GB eMMC and 4GB of RAM... both also will offer a LTE option later...
stetrain - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Other sites are reporting that the kickstand has 3 positions, it isn't continuously adjustable like the Surface Pro 3.uditrana - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Yeah I think so too. The press image they generally use for the friction hinge shows a lot more levels than the one shown above. Really disappointing...I will have to try it out before buying one now otherwise it was an instant buy for my brother.Can someone confirm and update the article?
Ian Cutress - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
You're right, it does seem to be a fixed three-position kickstand - I misread the announcement. I've updated the article.-Ian
eanazag - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
It is on the Microsoft Store already for pre-order. It does not yet list the price for the LTE model. Most questions can be answered there.It looks pretty decent. My biggest concern is graphics performance of the Atom processor. There hasn't been a good graphics Atom yet.
zeo - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
The graphics have been improved, Bay Trail used a Gen 7 (Ivy Bridge) GPU scaled to just 4 EU's... While Cherry Trail uses a Gen 8 (Broadwell) GPU with 8/12/16 EU's and should provide around up to 50% better graphical performance than Bay Trail...Won't completely close the performance gap they have with other high end mobile GPU's but it should be much better than what they could offer before...
Daishi83 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
The slides I am finding say 2x gpu performance based on GFXBench 2.7. Which based on what I am seeing puts it in the low end of HD4000 territory.zeo - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
The slides mention both 50% and 2x, depending on which test is being referred to, 3D Mark is the 50%... Anyway, since it's based on Broadwell's Gen 8 GPU, it has a list of improvements that includes increased size of various GPU caches, better Hi-Z and tessellation performance, and increased Pixel clock fill rate. The GPU natively supports 2x MultiSample Anti-Aliasing in hardware... more advance Quick Sync, etc.Generally, you'd see a 5-15% graphical improvement in performance for equivalent Haswell vs Broadwell parts that only give a 20% increase in EU's, but Cherry Trail really scaled up the GPU compared to Bay Trail and doubled to quadrupled the EU count...
So, there may not be much CPU performance improvement over Bay Trail but the GPU is definitely a improvement... and yes, it puts it in the HD4000 territory, as that also had 16 EU's... but keep in mind Cherry Trail is still a mobile SoC and uses a lot less power that a Core chip... Making the improvement pretty surprising even with the same number of EU's...
ddriver - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Doesn't look too shabby, an affordable x86 tablet with 4 gigs of ram and a stylus - that's gonna hit a pretty much vacant spot.CaedenV - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
no kidding! When I was going back to school I essentially wanted a T100 with 4GB of RAM on board, but could not find anything in the category except for a horrible detachable HP that literally had purple polkadots on it... horrible. Thankfully found a great referb deal on a high-end laptop that more than fit the bill, but something like this new Surface would have been more ideal.RBFL - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
I've just bought a Thinkpad 10, which pretty much matches this - 4/128GD,64bit OS, Stylus, 1900 by 1200. Lenovo had a good sale around about President's day so it was ~$550 with the keyboard dock.I think the more rigid keyboard makes it more of a secondary laptop but these look pretty nice too.
Daishi83 - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Honestly, at this price point, once you include the only theoretically optional keyboard and stylus, I feel like the T300 Chi is probably a better option.Sure the screen ratio is just wrong, its stylus is an additional $40 and a bit of an unknown quantity and the reported battery life is concerning, though this has all been with the WQHD display not the entry level FHD one and if the new XPS 13 that could make a significant difference.
For me though these issues are clearly outweighed by more ram, more, faster storage, more powerful CPU and GPU and above everything else a traditional clamshell form factor that you know you are going to be able to use on your lap.
At $680 or $740 I am struggling to see why I would choose the Surface.
chizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Finally! A lot of people were asking for Surface features and build quality with a lower priced Atom variant for the sub-$500 market and it looks like we got it.Will need to see if it is plagued by the same issues I had with the Asus T100 (never sure if this was platform/RAM or eMMC sluggishness).
Questions I have:
1) 64-bit OS? Bay Trails were mostly limited to 32-bit. This doesn't look to be Win8.1 Pro either.
2) Pen included?
3) Same battery life?
Overall I think the price needs to come down $100 on both or include the type pad as I think it gets too close to the i3 SP3 with a LOT of trade-offs. As a pure tablet it looks to be priced around the same as iPad Air 2, but the A2 can be had for less than MSRP now that it has been on the market for awhile.
Will definitely check these out at BB or MS store when they hit.
Drumsticks - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
I suspect it's a 64-bit OS, but obviously I have no way of knowing. The pen is not included, but it is supported. It's an extra $50.Battery life would presumably be a small step up, from the SP3, but maybe equal with the SP4.
While I do think the price could drop $50, this is still a nice, well priced tablet, even with the accessories taken into account. With a type cover, pen and the 128GB model, I think you come out roughly $150 cheaper than the i3 with a type cover. Not quite as cheap as it should be, but keep in mind it has double the storage, so it's not too bad overall.
If the SP3 made Microsoft a profit, I think the S3 is going to turn the line into a real success. I suspect the sweet spot is going to be in the 4GB 128GB model!
Gunbuster - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Not to mention that Microsoft is fond of launching with a high price and then giving discounts. Just look at the Lumia 635. Launched at $150+ and now you can get one for $50.Personally I think it's stupid. They should kick off with the lowest price they can to get market share but what do I know...
chizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Yeah saw the 4GB variant and that would indicate support for 64-bit OS support. I guess the battery life is offset by the smaller dimensions, smaller battery, lighter weight. Will be interesting to see how close it performs to the i3. The extra 2GB and 64GB storage is nice, but as someone else mentioned above, it will be key to see if it is fast SSD or slow eMMC.But yeah, I do think it will be a success and I'm glad to see MS stuck with the Surface line long enough to create a winning formula. The Pro 3 was obviously great and they finally shed the burden of RT/ARM on the non-Pro line to address the sub-$500 market. With some back to school specials I think it will take off if/when it hits $400-500. The SP3 for example saw a lot of great deals right at launch (I got my wife the i5 128GB SP3 for ~$780 right at launch with $150 PM and 10% BB rewards).
kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
It's eMMC. That doesn't mean it's slow -- good eMMC nowadays is no slouch, and still miles better than an HDD. Only slow compared to a full-fledged SSD.nonoverclock - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
The table in the article says Win 8.1 64bit.Thunder_ - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Baytrail is full capable of 64-bit, but give me a reason why you want 64bit on such a device.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
4GB ram.Guspaz - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
1) Access to the full 4GB of RAM instead of the ~3.3GB you get on a 32-bit OS2) Ability to have one process use more than 2GB of RAM
3) Better access to drivers since most are 64-bit now
4) Performance boost from software that can take advantage of 64-bit
5) 64-bit Chrome is a decent chunk more stable than 32-bit Chrome
6) More security by enabling things like data execution protection, requiring signed drivers, etc.
The differences really aren't earth shattering, but at this point there are a bunch of smaller benefits to 64-bit Windows, and no real drawbacks.
royalcrown - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
That isn't entirely true, there is a big drawback on devices with smaller storage amounts: the footprint of the OS and file size for the apps. 64 bit code is quite a bit fatter..chizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
You don't need 64-bit code to benefit from a 64-bit OS, tons of 32-bit apps at 3-4GB each are still going to run better on a 64-bit OS compared to a 32-bit OS.royalcrown - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Can you point me to where 32 bit apps run better under 64 bit, I've never heard that argument ?chizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Exactlychizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Same reason Vista 64-bit was miles better than Vista 32-bit, beyond the obvious 3+GB addressable, per app RAM usage can exceed 2GB, and that extends into pagefile too (which is much faster on eMMC/SSD compared to HDD).Browsers alone take ridiculous amounts of RAM if you allow them to, so yeah I wouldn't want them to be restricted to 2GB per app and 3GB total system.
killeak - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
1 - "Surface 3 runs full 64-bit Windows 8.1 and will be available with Windows Pro for business customers. "2 - "the pen will be sold separately and it will now be available in colors — silver, blue, red and black."
3 - 10hs playing video, which should be around the same of the T100
More info: http://blog.surface.com/2015/03/announcing-surface...
This is Cherry Trail, I need to see benchmarks first but I think that this device will fit my needs better than my T100. Yes, it will be more expensive than the T100 was at launch or the T100 chi now, but, it has better screen (1920x1280 is 3:2), better build quality (magnesium body), better SoC, more memory and and more storage.
Gunbuster - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
WiFi from the Atom chip. Thank the lord! Bye bye Avastar buggy WiFi/Bluetoothchizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Branding/iteration as Surface 3 also corroborates rumors Microsoft won't change the # designation of the Pro, will most likely just be UEFI and under the hood changes (updated CPU/platform and maybe a Core M option or two).Makes sense as their Surface line has finally hit primetime and critical acclaim with the 3 designation, I think this non-Pro version will also be popular but I think it would've done better if all models fell clearly under the $500 price point ($400 and $500 for the 64/128 respectively).
jjj - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
300$ would be ok for anyone that needs a Windows tablet (hard to see a reason though) or a netbook (except the keyboard is absurdly priced).But the worst thing is that this product has to reason to exist. Everybody wants to earn billions without working for it at all.They are just releasing random garbage and hope consumers are stupid enough to buy it.
What have they done to make this product stand out in any way at all? Why make it?Why would anyone buy it?
Same uninspired kickstand, same photo frame design,same puke inducing UI...
Last year Microsoft spent 11.4 billions on R&D (Apple spent 6 billions), they could have spend 2 cents on this thing to create something relevant but they can't be bothered , just like pretty much everybody else, to make an effort.
This sector is supposed to make the impossible possible and that requires work and the will to get there. We are very lucky that chip makers are not behaving like this and they still try.
Gunbuster - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
This is great for Enterprise customers. Not every work drone needs the power of a SP3, but they do need full X86 functionality.Just because it's not for you does not mean it's not meeting a need.
Impulses - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
I've been waiting years for someone to make a higher end or premium Atom hybrid, the whole RT detour delayed this on MS' part but I'm glad they finally got there. I think it's brilliant, maybe step outside your bubble for a bit...Drumsticks - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
I mean, given the profit, at the already premium price, the SP3 is pulling, I assume Microsoft doesn't mind too much...I definitely see a reason for the S3 to exist. I have at least five friends who held off on a SP3 that they loved because it was too expensive. While anecdotal evidence goes only so far, I imagine I'm not alone. That, plus it being the only affordable stylus enabled PC - I think it'll do pretty well.
chizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Surface is actually a great form factor and solution that addresses the problem the tablet market has been facing for years: functionality beyond simple content consumption.The Surface line is important because it does the best job of bridging full Windows x86 (and all legacy programs/apps that entails) with the form factor and portability of a tablet with the best *INPUT* options for a tablet, while also giving the option for a competent laptop experience.
So while you may not have a use for it, business/enterprise users, students, artists/architects all find it is the best tool for the job and certainly better than any other tablet option on the market.
jjj - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
lmaoBest input for a tablet is the keyboard in your opinion? That's a laptop.
And may i remind you 10inch ,slow SoC , no storage is a netbook experience.
And you fully miss the point, it's not original in any way , just another insipid product.
Some people are acting like M has invented the convertible today.
You can easily buy lots of much better Windows convertibles for a lot less.
lset - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
And those way better Windows convertibles for this price point are...?And they didn't say that a keyboard is the best input for a tablet, they said that the Surface line gives you the best input options, AKA a decent stylus but still having the ability to use it as a laptop if you need to.
This device is light years away from what we used to experience with Netbooks, Atom isn't such a dirty word anymore. What does screw Atom designs over is when companies pair it with other subpar components (looking at you storage).
jjj - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
The Lenovo Miix 2 10 inch is 300$ now on Amazon with the keyboard included.Full HD, 2GB RAM, 64GB NAND, Win 8 but not the new Atom, an older Atom so slightly slower.( for anyone reading this, the Miix is just an example not a recommendation, if you are tempted to buy it do your homework and research it).
This thing is 500$ plus 130$ for the keyboard. And this was just an example,there are lots of other devices out there.
And BTW the best phone SoCs are faster and current notebooks are using this kind of SoC too so take it easy with the hyperbolic claims.
chizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Yeah sounds like the Asus T100, decent device, but not what people are looking for in a device of this type. They want a better tablet experience with a competent laptop experience, if they wanted a laptop they can buy any of a hundred cheap Ultrabooks or a MacBook Air.andrewaggb - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
personally I thought the T100's build quality was terrible.lset - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 10 inch miix doesn't come with a stylus and it's limited to 2GB. Personally I don't care about the keyboard, I would want something that has a decent stylus and at least 4GB so that I could run stuff like Mangastudio.The build quality on the SP3 is also awesome, so if this follows suit I would gladly pay the extra for that.
And BTW it's not a hyperbolic claim, whenever someone mentions netbooks nearly everyone thinks pre-ultrabook atom era. The new atoms do fine against the latest smartphone SoCs and most people are willing to fork out absurd money for those. This device isn't for you, fair enough, but there is clearly a place for it.
andrewaggb - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Build quality and the 3:2 ratio are what makes this stand out.chizow - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
No, the best input for a TABLET is a stylus. If you want keyboard/laptop functionality, you can get it too and while its not as good as a full blown keyboard it is close without nearly as much bulk or rigidity as a laptop or even 2-in-1.You obviously haven't used even a 1st-gen Bay Trail product because it certainly isn't a netbook experience. 128GB is plenty of storage especially given you can use a microSD for more storage for non-apps, just data type. On top of that you have cloud storage if needed.
And they did invent the convertible lol. Look at what was available before...Intel was still pushing their Ultrabook, now Ultrabooks are shifting and Intel is pushing their 2-in-1s which are OK products, but not NEARLY as good in tablet mode as the Surface products.
The point is anyone who wants a convertible can get one, but no one really wants one because that's the insipid product that no one really cares about because its old hat and doesn't allow any additional functionality as previous laptops.
royalcrown - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
jjj....not trying to nitpick, but as a second language learner I can appreciate feedback when I make a mistake. Instead of a number followed by billions, it's just billion without the s. Just offering a hand and not intending to be a jerk.bleh0 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Seems like exactly what I need. Would preorder but I do want to wait for reviews and see if there are any hiccups.Impulses - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Kind of disappointing we aren't seeing USB Type C yet on mobile Windows devices... Outside of that this looks great, it's what the Surface line should've embodied all along, die RT die! With education discounts these will be hot sellers IMO.Flunk - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
This thing looks like it could easily replace both my laptop and tablet. Hmm, something to think about when I drop my current tablet down the stairs. Are they still charging $100 for the keyboard? Microsoft needs to come down on those, it pushes their total cost way over ASUS's convertables. Sure you get better build quality, but you also lose out on lap usability. If Microsoft really wanted to slaughter the competition they'd include a type cover. Even if they just offer it as an incentive in their own stores "free type cover with Surface" is a great promotion idea. Let the user pick the color and they'd have another "$50 off Xbox One" type success and right now Microsoft needs to move more units to gain mindshare more than they need to make a big profit on each unit.kron123456789 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
It took 3 years for Microsoft to understand that nobody want a crippled Windows RT.bkydcmpr - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
no. steven sinofsky still doesn't understand.jhoff80 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
To be honest, I still would love the option to 'cripple' Windows 10 the same way Windows RT was supposedly crippled. Not for myself, but for people like my parents. Every time I visit them, there's like 20 different browser toolbars installed, a bunch of spyware, etc. I would love to be able to flip a switch in Windows 10 to prevent them from installing anything (other than desktop Office) that doesn't come from the Windows Store (akin to OS X's 'Gatekeeper' setting, or an 'RT mode' if you will).cwolf78 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
That's what limited user accounts are for.jhoff80 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Limited user accounts are not nearly as locked down as RT was. You can still run many .exe files and even some installers as a limited user (Chrome's installer is specifically designed around this).In contrast, Windows RT (yes, partly because it is ARM only of course) only let you run signed code directly from the Windows Store.
CSMR - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Parentally control the limited account from an admin account to prevent running of exe files.In principle RT should be easier to lock down but its a new system and parental controls are not as well developed yet on it. Certainly easier to manage though as the system controls updates automatically.
jeffkibuule - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Yeah, I would much prefer restriction-by-default, with per-app escalation requiring a password as needed.domboy - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
You can enable the same executable signing restriction Windows RT had on Windows 8. Problem with RT was you couldn't turn it off...NewMC - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Just FYI - This is going to sound backwards but you could set them up with a "childs" account and control their installs with MS Family Safety, you can also lock down the store app by changing it to a different account that is password protected and require the password in order to install any apps from the store. I understand what you're saying though, with store apps they really can't get into too much trouble other than filling us their storage space. I have deployed 25 Surface tablets for our field technicians, I lock the store down using a master account so that they must enter that password to purchase any software, other installations and browser activity is limited via Family Safety. I understand your frustrations!NewMC - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
This does not require any kind of email montoring or getting into their personal data. You would just backup their storage, remove their account and add the account back to the tablet as a child's account while you were logged in as the Admin.QuantumPion - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
I'd be interested in trading in my ipad Air for this thing if the CPU has enough power to run older PC games, especially dos classics like MOO, X-COm, etc. It would be really nice having an ipad-sized device which can run firefox with adblock and play real pc games instead of app-store crap.kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Baytrail could already easily handle any older games, from your DOS based ones through Starcraft, emulation up to PSone/N64/Dreamcast, and lots of indie titles and older Steam games. Cherry Trail should only do even better. I'm hoping it can manage GameCube emulation. (Metroid Prime on-the-go? Yes please.)Ian Cutress - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Keep an eye on our Dolphin Benchmark numbers in Bench. That's usually a good indicator of emulator performance. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1027kyuu - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Yes but when will Cherry Trail be there? :PHeck is Bay Trail even in there?
It's probable that most of Cherry Trail's improvements will be in the GPU rather than CPU, and Dolphin, like most emulators, needs CPU.
metayoshi - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
I don't know if this can run Gamecube emulation smoothly as I had a desktop with a Core i7-860 and an AMD Radeon 7870 that would still significantly stutter playing certain Gamecube games like Metroid Prime or Skies of Arcadia Legends. I don't know how well Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge performed, but it wasn't until I dropped money on my current Core i7-4790K that I could play those two games smoothly. If Cherry Trail isn't up to par with that old Core i7, there's no way this system will be good enough for Metroid Prime on the go. It would be nice though.kyuu - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Argh, you're crushing my dreams here. :(Maybe I should just bite the bullet and get the Pro.
kyuu - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Oh and Sandy Bridge performs just fine. My i5-2500k can run any GameCube game on Dolphin with all the options turned to max. Unfortunately this still isn't likely to get anywhere near the performance of full wattage Sandy Bridge.vdek - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
The device scores about 3500 points on geekbench for multicore performance. That's about equal to the Core-M5Y10 the latest macbook has. Half the single core performance but with 2x the cores it evens out.Michael Bay - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Well, I`ve ran dosBox on older Atoms. It wasn`t the best possible performance, yes, but then again Bay Trail is so much faster.fokka - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
lovely piece of hardware and the price isn't bad neither. but i think they should have included 4gb of ram on all models. i'd also love to see a 256gb version and an option for 8gb of ram, even if it adds another 100 bucks to the price.still not a bad proposition for a modern day convertible. i especially like the resolution since it's not as overkill as on some other devices, yet you get a nice and sharp workspace with 1280 vertical pixels.
i think MS is on the right track with its surface line, the only thing i'd still love to see are some more substantial laptop docks, because kickstand + type cover still leaves something to be desired in that regard.
jeffkibuule - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
256GB model gets into the realm and pricing of a Surface Pro 3. A clear division between the two eliminations people wavering between the two (and may end up not getting anything).Plus, there are 128GB microSD cards for just $90.
StormyParis - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
"a standard 3-position stand" Standard where ?kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Yeah, I'm not sure where the author got that from. If it is the 3-position, then that's the same as the 2nd gen surfaces, but different from the 1st gens and the SP3. Including this new Surface, that would bring the total percentage using the 3-position kickstand to 50%, which doesn't really qualify as "standard".digiguy - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Great little device, improves everything over Surface 2 and some things even over SP3.1. Lighter, even than the RT ones, this thing is close to my W510, so great to hold with one hand, but with a bigger screen
2. 3:2 ratio, which at 10.8 inches makes it better than ipad to read books, while still being light
3. up to 128 GB, this is better than my SP3 I3, although it remains to be seen if this is proper SSD
3. microUSB charging, great for using power banks
4. top Atom CPU, if this is significantly better than Z3795 this could be quite close to the SP3 I3
5. fanless
6. 64 bits (to use the 4GB of RAM)
7. great resolution, the perfect balance for this size on Windows
8. full USB 3.0 (type C would only be a plus if it can use the full bandwidth, unlike the new Macbook)
9. improved kickstand over S2/SP2 (but not as good as SP3)
10. accessories not included but possibility to reuse the SP3 pen
11. SP3 like keyboard mechanism, in addition it seems quite close to full size (to be tested)
kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
For #3, it's eMMC. Baytrail only supported eMMC storage, and the specs for the Atom x3/5/7, which we've had for a while now, show it only supports eMMC (albeit a newer revision).Why people think it would use full SSDs I have no idea.
NewMC - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
correct, eMMC 4.51 I believe.digiguy - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Well, I wondered because it's a new CPU, it's a bit like the 64 bit support, Atom didn't support is until Z3795. Also, from what I have read, some newer eMMC are getting closer to sata SSDs. Personally I would give up some speed to double the storage in my SP3 i3 (but keep the i3 CPU).kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Yeah, the newer eMMC, which I'd hope they're using, is pretty speedy. Not going to match a full SSD of course, but for normal usage you probably won't see much difference. Still miles better than an HDD.MikeMurphy - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Except for those PCIe 2.0 lanes that would allow for an m.2 format SSD.kyuu - Friday, April 3, 2015 - link
From Intel's slides it appears the intention is that the PCIe lanes will be used for WiGig. Since they are apparently unused in the S3, though, I wonder if there will be any way to utilize them for something else, like adding storage.Laxaa - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
I'm tempted. Throw in some "back to school" discounts and perhaps I'll bite.Looking forward to seeing what kind of performance it packs. As a designer I want as good performance as possiel, but I have a decently specced computer at home(and one at work as well) to do all the heavy task, so something light and reasonably specced for metings and travel would be right up my alley(I'm seeing people quoting that Geekbench has it at around Core M levels in multithreading. It's four cores vs two, but it's still pretty impressive at that price point)
NewMC - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
My education discount shows $50 of each model through the MS store. I'd like to see another $50 to really drive people to purchase. I have been planning on purchasing an SP3 but have enough powerful clamshell and portable devices in my lift right now that I can't justify it. With this though, I think I could probably sell my personal Surface tablet and my older Asus 2-in-1 Android tablet and break even on a Surface 3 with stylus and keyboard. My main draw to the SP3 was the stylus for school notes after all. With 64-bit WIn8.1 I can install any necessary x86 software, use a USB port replicator/dock, and still do everything that I would have with the SP3. I'm really like the idea of this!CSMR - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
It's a mistake. Microsoft already has a flagship hybrid tablet/laptop in the Surface Pro models.Microsoft needs to stay in the pure tablet market until it succeeds. It's a huge market and giving a customer who wants a touch-only tablet a device with a hybrid OS is giving him a substandard and hard-to-use product.
Until Microsoft creates an os that can has desktop only/hybrid/tablet modes there will be a need for a pure tablet os (Windows RT) and a pure desktop OS (Windows 7) as well as the hybrid one (Windows 8.1).
domboy - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Speak for yourself... I have no interest in a tablet only device, so when the Surface line came out I had to have one. I love my Surface RT and have run desktop apps on it since day one. I actually use the desktop more than modern ui, but I like having both. Sure I'd love a Prod3 but I can't really afford one, but now that there is an Atom-based Surface I seriously hope I can get one sometime. It would fix everything wrong with an RT-based Surface, even one with the jailbreak.The Pro 1 and 2 weren't really interesting due to weight and battery life.
theNiZer - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
This Surface 3 could be very usefull as a student. New innovation is always welcome. Continue the effort MS!sonofgodfrey - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
I wonder if the LTE version will have GPS? With a bluetooth headset this thing could replace all my carry-around electronics :) (phone, laptop, mp3 player, camera...)kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Well, unless you're going to use Skype exclusively, it'd have a hard time replacing your phone. Besides, carry a cheap phone and use it for calls and tethering your wifi-only S3. Then you don't have to wait and save money.kyuu - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Oh, also, the camera is ok but not in the same league as good smartphone cameras, so it wouldn't be great for replacing your camera either. Again, better off with your phone for that (not as awkward as taking pics with your tablet either).royalcrown - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
Ian,Will you please test some games on this, such as civilization V and other light games. I could see using a monitor and a keyboard at my desk and taking this to another room when I don't feel like being chained down to my usual spot. This could be a good desktop substitute for folks that do mostly internet and casual use.
kyuu - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
I can already tell you Civ V is playable. Played it just fine on my Venue 8 Pro (low settings, of course).boozed - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
"The device on its own will be 8.7mm thin"It's okay to say "8.7mm thick", you know.
AnandTechUser99 - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
The price for the Surface 3 (4 GB / 128 GB) model in Canada is $769.00 CAD. The Type Cover is $159.99 CAD and the Surface Pen is $49.99 CAD. Together that's $978.98 CAD before tax or $1106.25 CAD after tax (13%).Thanks to the high USD, the price increase in Canada is considerable. Not exactly an affordable option for students.
WorldWithoutMadness - Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - link
You don't need to confirm whether this is N-trig or not as it will be 100% N-trig.N-trig had been bought by Microsoft, why would they use other competitors product just after they acquire the company?
zeo - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Yeah, it states right on their page that the Pen works with both the S3 and SP3... So it can only be N-Trig...tramways - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
18 months ago I bought a Medion Akoya convertible from Aldi.Its specs are:
Bay Trail Celeron Quad at 1.86GHz
4GB RAM
64GB emmc
500GB HGST HDD in keyboard
2nd battery in keyboard
1xUSB3,1xUSB2,micro HDMI,headphone port,charging port in tablet
2xUSB2,charging port in keyboard
1920x1080 IPS 10 point touchscreen
Windows 8.1 64 bit OS
AC wireless and bluetooth
AU$600
It has never missed a beat with good battery life.
Now we get 1 USB port and think it's OK.
I like the screen height though.
digiguy - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
If this is the Medion I saw at Aldi (P2212T), this thing weighs almost as the original Surface and is 1,7 KG with the keyboard, while this surface is around 900g with the keyboard. Also one of the main strengths of the Surface (pro) 3 is the aspect ratio, more similar to ipads, that makes it usable in vertical position to read pdfs, etc. I have a couple of 16:9 windows convertibles and their are more similar to netbooks than to tablets. When I bought the Surface pro 3 (I3) I wanted a tablet first (I already had an ultrabook) to read documents and annotate them (the stylus is another major plus), that could also be a light and usable laptop as a bonus.milkod2001 - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Imagine MS comes with this product on day of official release of Windows 10 offering 128/4GB model for $399 including keyboard....my point is MS should attract mass market with good price, not only to target businesses especially with very average Atom inside.BMNify - Wednesday, April 1, 2015 - link
Yeah and piss off and bankrupt the OEM partners in this process, Microsoft is rightly targeting the Mid-High end market with Surface 3 and Surface Pro 3, they need not price their premium products at prices which are lesser than toys like ipad. Regarding Atom x7 performance, lets wait and watch for Anandtech review before announcing it as average , intel surprised last time with Baytrail performance and we should wait for Cherrytail performance reviews.milkod2001 - Thursday, April 2, 2015 - link
Agreed, let's wait for Anandtech to review it first. My prediction for conclusion section is : Atom based windows 8.1 tablet with $120-150 extra for keyboard (which Surface 3 is) gives user the very same experience as any $200 Android ips tablet.The only difference is windows os itself but for even half serious work on the go when windows apps are used Atom simply does not cut it.For that i5 or i7 comes in play where premium price could be justified but not for Atom.
MS is probably getting Atoms from Intel for free.Even if MS made only $50 per unit
but sold 7-10 million units easily ($399 including keyboard) it would be a huge success. With current pricing plans MS will not sell that many and what is worse people don't get hear about Surface at all. Surface lives on IT sites like this one, sits on tables of very few IT enthusiasts or businesses only. And that is not enough.
Michael Bay - Thursday, April 2, 2015 - link
Did you even use anything on Baytrail?It is completely sufficient for usual ofice tasks.
Sure, for Photoshop or CAD work you`d want something more powerful, but those aren`t for tablets anyway.
digiguy - Thursday, April 2, 2015 - link
You better look at Surface pro 3 sales for the last quarter of 2014. Having said that, MS is not interested to be in competition for the low-end. And this product is far from a $200 Android tablet. According to the first tests, this new Atom chip has 90% of the power of the I3 in SP3. And the i3 (which I have) can run a lot of professional software. You are not very up-to-date concerning Atom. The top of the line is no longer a netbook CPU.V900 - Friday, April 3, 2015 - link
Microsoft would be digging their own grave, if they released a fully featured Surface, like what you're describing, for 500$ or less.All the OEMs would immediately react with what is MS's nightmare scenario, and one of the only big threats to their desktop dominance: Going all in on Chrome OS.
For every laptop or desktop they release running Windows, they'd release a version running Chrome for 1-200$ less.
V900 - Friday, April 3, 2015 - link
The Windows RT fiasco has probably ruined the Surface brand for Microsoft.Out of all the Surface models released, only the Surface 3 Pro has been a moderate success, so it's doubtful whether this will be any more of a smash hit
V900 - Friday, April 3, 2015 - link
What a fundamentally flawed device.For casual users its overpriced, though most of those would be better off with an iPad anyways.
For the professional users who need a keyboard, an ultrabook (or MacBook Air) gives you a better and more powerful experience in the same price range.
And if you're a professional who insists on a tablet, the huge iOS ecosystem make the iPad the obvious choice. Sure, there are a plethora of old Windows programs that'll run on the Surface, but using mouse based apps on a tablet, is a pretty awful experience.
kyuu - Friday, April 3, 2015 - link
Oh look, all the same arguments that have been presented since the Surface line was first introduced, and which totally ignores that the Pro line has been very popular with professionals since its inception. The SP3 has been particularly well received.Desktop apps are actually quite usable, even on an 8-inch screen, actually. I use them on my DV8P. And there are plenty of Metro apps if you want a touch-oriented experience.
And professionals using iPads? That's pretty funny.
kyuu - Friday, April 3, 2015 - link
Oh, and please show me the $500 ultra book that offers a good tablet experience.In reality, this competes price-wise with the iPad, but gives you a lot more for your money unless you're already heavily invested in the iOS ecosystem.
Alexvrb - Saturday, April 11, 2015 - link
Also if you really want to run mouse-heavy software that can't be done with either touchscreen or touchpad, you can just use a mouse. It runs Windows. It has a USB port. Wired, wireless, mini or full size. Whatever you want, done.aden64 - Sunday, April 5, 2015 - link
Waiting on the LTE version.screwd01 - Thursday, April 23, 2015 - link
I haven't researched much into it but I heard about Hyper-V being disabled on the Surface 3s. Is there anyway to run a virtual machine for a Win 7 program I'm trying to use?