I just want to know where they are getting the 100 ms 'game pipeline' figure from. That sounds atrociously high. I'd gather in a well coded game it wouldn't be more than 1 frame which would be ~33ms for a game running at 30fps. Half that time for 60fps. Can anyone elaborate?
You are wrong about he tiers. The basic one is 720p 30 FPS and the premium one (called GRID Plus) is 1080p 60FPS. As for additional games for GRID Plus, i really don't remember any mention of that in the event or press release so maybe check that too. They state that they have 50 games now and they keep adding more but that's about it.
The premium games are 1080p 60FPS, you are right, but they are also a potentially different set of games you must buy on top of the subscription. He did mention that in the event. I think the idea is the latest releases will be sold on premium and then at some point they will migrate down.
The choice of 30FPS for the basic tier is odd; 30FPS would significantly increase latency, and make people who try it out more likely to say "This is too laggy, it's garbage" and then never subscribe to the premium service.
On the other hand, if the basic tier was 720p60, they'd be more likely to say "Hey, this works really well, I want to subscribe to get higher resolution and more games".
the basic tier isn't free either, and they're probably going to offer some way to try out the premium service if you already have basic to see the difference.
I don't see how 30 fps would significantly increase latency anyway. Considering the latency that there is because of the streaming stuff, a 16 ms worst-case difference isn't that significant.
It's a matter of cost and the quality ofthe internet connections people have. Less might be better for a lot of people that have poor connections . 60FPS would double the bandwidth and plenty US users don't have the connection needed for even 720p at 30FPS. The device is unlikely to sell much anyway at 199$ and it will be mostly in the US. In EU, Nvidia jacks up prices anyway and that's before adding 19 to 25% VAT so EU pricing will be quite a bit higher for a device that already is twice the established price for Android TV boxes. So it's still more of a testing phase for now , Nvidia doesn't seem interested in actually having customers and they are just trying to figure out costs and what kind of pricing is achievable. Right now anyone that buys this does so because they really want GRID, otherwise they can just pay half the price for the Amazon box ( or Razer Forge TV or w/e else that is sufficient for Android games) and if you don't need gaming, Chromecast.is 6-8 times cheaper.
I own an original Shield Portable and love it. Even if it didn't come with all the other features that are included, it's the by far the best handheld emulator device on the market. I spend more time playing my old PS1, Genesis, and SNES games than anything else. Having a built-in controller device while sitting back on a lounger in the pool doing some retro gaming is boss.
I have streamed games via the GRID service over wireless and I did not notice any discernible impact on my gameplay other than in twitchy racing games (45MB down/5MB up connection). For me, it simply worked great, and that was even on shitty single band wireless-N (I've since upgraded to dual AC). Having the console plugged into Ethernet should improve on that experience in terms of lag.
Local GameStream from the PC has had its ups and downs. It worked great for a long time and I used it to stream games like Deus Ex: HR, Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur, a few LEGO games, and The Witcher 2 without any issues from soon after it's launch to about October 2014. Some of the recent Geforce Experience PC updates (Nov. 2014-early Feb. 2015) broke a lot of functionality for me though and I was having connection issues, dropped signals, jerky streams, and just overall less performance. However, they seem to be working out the bugs that were introduced with subsequent releases and I have seen my performance improve to I think about where it was since the last release.
What disappoints me about this console is that, for the most part, my Shield Portable does all of these things already. If I want to stream GRID games or PC games via GameStream to my TV, I can hook it up via HDMI and use an XBOX wireless controller. Want to play Android games on the TV? Same thing. Bluetooth voice control accessories? Check. This new console just has more performance, which is to be expected for a larger and newly released device.
I was really hoping they were going to release an update to the handheld with the X1 and market it as a portable home console. Increase the screen size to at least 6" from the current 5", slap a high resolution screen in it, throw in the X1 with active cooling just like the original shield, put 3-4GB of RAM in and call it a day. All you would need to do to get all of the functionality of a home console would be to plug it in via HDMI if you just wanted to leave it on the shelf, but the portability factor would be there if you wanted it. The Shield Portable and Tablet were already niche products for a niche audience and instead of perfecting them, they've released this device that honestly, I don't know who it's for.
I mean, the X1 can probably handle PS2 games now as soon as someone releases a Android emulator. Wouldn't that be sweet to have in a handheld, plus all the benefits they are touting with the X1?
Can you play a game on the tv with 4 controllers using the shield portable? Regardless, this is cheaper than a tablet or the portable, and looks better sitting in the living room. It also functions as a smart TV. Hopefully they don't abandon the other Shield devices though. It would be cool if Android gaming does take off, then they could potentially throw higher-powered hardware at it. Right now it would be a huge risk to go beyond the limits of what other market segments (automotive and mobile) can support.
Actually, with the recent software release, I DO think you can use up to four wireless Xbox 360 controllers in multiplayer games. I personally haven't tried it as I don't own any local co-op multiplayer games other than Trine 1&2 and some of the LEGO games.
It will be interesting to see what the prices are. I am guessing the basic tier will be in line with what Microsoft and Sony offer. I'm guessing the premium tier will be around $10/month. They mentioned Netflix again and again, also Spotify. I bet they try to stay close to that pricing model. The one thing which I'm fuzzy on this morning. Can I buy games through grid if I have no subscription to the service? The other side of this puzzle is the download Nvidia game store which will apparently have a lot of older titles. The pricing on those currently is around $10. That seems quite attractive to me actually as I'm not a big gamer and did not have a console or PC gaming set up during that generation. I am betting I can do a lot of casual gaming on short money with those older games. Finally, while Sony and MS consoles cost more you can often buy them in bundles. If you want the games they come with then that puts the pricing for the console a lot closer to Shield. I wonder if Nvidia or Google will do any kind of bundles or add ins. I'm also curious if Google gets any cut, and how much, of Nvidia game business here.
Latency and price will determine the success of this service. With pre-rendered frames, wireless controllers, and crappy TV response time, consoles take a while to respond. Hopefully this can provide a similar experience for not too much money.
I'd love to see this service integrated with Steam. You'd be able to "install" games from GRID in your Steam list (in reality it'd just add it to your "installed" list without doing any actual installing), and you could see them in your games list and launch them like you would any other Steam game.
Then again, I'm a big proponent of having all of my stuff in one place, and I really hate having games spread out over half a dozen different content distribution services.
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Tigran - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
In last year's Shield Tablet review AnandTech mentioned "10 Mbps connection and around 10ms latency to the server". 150ms sounds not too good.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
150ms is the total value (network + encode + display + etc)Tigran - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
So it was also about 150ms total value in last year's review?WagonWheelsRX8 - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
I just want to know where they are getting the 100 ms 'game pipeline' figure from. That sounds atrociously high. I'd gather in a well coded game it wouldn't be more than 1 frame which would be ~33ms for a game running at 30fps. Half that time for 60fps. Can anyone elaborate?jjj - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
You are wrong about he tiers.The basic one is 720p 30 FPS and the premium one (called GRID Plus) is 1080p 60FPS.
As for additional games for GRID Plus, i really don't remember any mention of that in the event or press release so maybe check that too. They state that they have 50 games now and they keep adding more but that's about it.
Yojimbo - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
The premium games are 1080p 60FPS, you are right, but they are also a potentially different set of games you must buy on top of the subscription. He did mention that in the event. I think the idea is the latest releases will be sold on premium and then at some point they will migrate down.Guspaz - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
The choice of 30FPS for the basic tier is odd; 30FPS would significantly increase latency, and make people who try it out more likely to say "This is too laggy, it's garbage" and then never subscribe to the premium service.On the other hand, if the basic tier was 720p60, they'd be more likely to say "Hey, this works really well, I want to subscribe to get higher resolution and more games".
Murloc - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
the basic tier isn't free either, and they're probably going to offer some way to try out the premium service if you already have basic to see the difference.I don't see how 30 fps would significantly increase latency anyway. Considering the latency that there is because of the streaming stuff, a 16 ms worst-case difference isn't that significant.
jjj - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
It's a matter of cost and the quality ofthe internet connections people have. Less might be better for a lot of people that have poor connections . 60FPS would double the bandwidth and plenty US users don't have the connection needed for even 720p at 30FPS.The device is unlikely to sell much anyway at 199$ and it will be mostly in the US. In EU, Nvidia jacks up prices anyway and that's before adding 19 to 25% VAT so EU pricing will be quite a bit higher for a device that already is twice the established price for Android TV boxes.
So it's still more of a testing phase for now , Nvidia doesn't seem interested in actually having customers and they are just trying to figure out costs and what kind of pricing is achievable.
Right now anyone that buys this does so because they really want GRID, otherwise they can just pay half the price for the Amazon box ( or Razer Forge TV or w/e else that is sufficient for Android games) and if you don't need gaming, Chromecast.is 6-8 times cheaper.
SpartyOn - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
I own an original Shield Portable and love it. Even if it didn't come with all the other features that are included, it's the by far the best handheld emulator device on the market. I spend more time playing my old PS1, Genesis, and SNES games than anything else. Having a built-in controller device while sitting back on a lounger in the pool doing some retro gaming is boss.I have streamed games via the GRID service over wireless and I did not notice any discernible impact on my gameplay other than in twitchy racing games (45MB down/5MB up connection). For me, it simply worked great, and that was even on shitty single band wireless-N (I've since upgraded to dual AC). Having the console plugged into Ethernet should improve on that experience in terms of lag.
Local GameStream from the PC has had its ups and downs. It worked great for a long time and I used it to stream games like Deus Ex: HR, Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur, a few LEGO games, and The Witcher 2 without any issues from soon after it's launch to about October 2014. Some of the recent Geforce Experience PC updates (Nov. 2014-early Feb. 2015) broke a lot of functionality for me though and I was having connection issues, dropped signals, jerky streams, and just overall less performance. However, they seem to be working out the bugs that were introduced with subsequent releases and I have seen my performance improve to I think about where it was since the last release.
What disappoints me about this console is that, for the most part, my Shield Portable does all of these things already. If I want to stream GRID games or PC games via GameStream to my TV, I can hook it up via HDMI and use an XBOX wireless controller. Want to play Android games on the TV? Same thing. Bluetooth voice control accessories? Check. This new console just has more performance, which is to be expected for a larger and newly released device.
I was really hoping they were going to release an update to the handheld with the X1 and market it as a portable home console. Increase the screen size to at least 6" from the current 5", slap a high resolution screen in it, throw in the X1 with active cooling just like the original shield, put 3-4GB of RAM in and call it a day. All you would need to do to get all of the functionality of a home console would be to plug it in via HDMI if you just wanted to leave it on the shelf, but the portability factor would be there if you wanted it. The Shield Portable and Tablet were already niche products for a niche audience and instead of perfecting them, they've released this device that honestly, I don't know who it's for.
I mean, the X1 can probably handle PS2 games now as soon as someone releases a Android emulator. Wouldn't that be sweet to have in a handheld, plus all the benefits they are touting with the X1?
Yojimbo - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
Can you play a game on the tv with 4 controllers using the shield portable? Regardless, this is cheaper than a tablet or the portable, and looks better sitting in the living room. It also functions as a smart TV. Hopefully they don't abandon the other Shield devices though. It would be cool if Android gaming does take off, then they could potentially throw higher-powered hardware at it. Right now it would be a huge risk to go beyond the limits of what other market segments (automotive and mobile) can support.SpartyOn - Thursday, March 5, 2015 - link
Actually, with the recent software release, I DO think you can use up to four wireless Xbox 360 controllers in multiplayer games. I personally haven't tried it as I don't own any local co-op multiplayer games other than Trine 1&2 and some of the LEGO games.savagemike - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
It will be interesting to see what the prices are. I am guessing the basic tier will be in line with what Microsoft and Sony offer. I'm guessing the premium tier will be around $10/month. They mentioned Netflix again and again, also Spotify. I bet they try to stay close to that pricing model.The one thing which I'm fuzzy on this morning. Can I buy games through grid if I have no subscription to the service?
The other side of this puzzle is the download Nvidia game store which will apparently have a lot of older titles. The pricing on those currently is around $10. That seems quite attractive to me actually as I'm not a big gamer and did not have a console or PC gaming set up during that generation. I am betting I can do a lot of casual gaming on short money with those older games.
Finally, while Sony and MS consoles cost more you can often buy them in bundles. If you want the games they come with then that puts the pricing for the console a lot closer to Shield. I wonder if Nvidia or Google will do any kind of bundles or add ins.
I'm also curious if Google gets any cut, and how much, of Nvidia game business here.
TallestJon96 - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
Latency and price will determine the success of this service. With pre-rendered frames, wireless controllers, and crappy TV response time, consoles take a while to respond. Hopefully this can provide a similar experience for not too much money.Guspaz - Wednesday, March 4, 2015 - link
I'd love to see this service integrated with Steam. You'd be able to "install" games from GRID in your Steam list (in reality it'd just add it to your "installed" list without doing any actual installing), and you could see them in your games list and launch them like you would any other Steam game.Then again, I'm a big proponent of having all of my stuff in one place, and I really hate having games spread out over half a dozen different content distribution services.
SpartyOn - Thursday, March 5, 2015 - link
Why not just purchase the game from Steam in the first place and then stream it to the console via GameStream?maincpa77 - Friday, May 12, 2017 - link
On the other hand, if the basic tier was 720p60 and get dragon ball z dokkan battle hack on http://dragonballzdokkanbattle-hack.com