No, that's a desktop replacement. You don't want to put that thing on your lap. Still, it works for the segment it's in, top performance with near-desktop bulk.
We can certainly try to get the P651SG for review to see how it compares with the others. I suspect it will be quite similar in performance to the Gigabyte P35W v3 review I'm working on, so it's more a question of whether you like the Clevo design more.
It would be nice to see whether the desktop CPU really gives an edge in games over the mobile 4720HQ in the P651SG. The latter has soldered GPU and CPU though.
They crammed a 4790K into a laptop?! Thats gutsy. Although I suppose not technically a laptop, more like a portable workstation. I think if it was mine I would choose a 4690K over the 4790K, they run noticeable cooler, even when overclocked to the same speeds.
I used to be a consultant visiting 2-3 clients a week working on their systems but my laptop was my testbed. The software was like a 747, doesn't matter if it's one or a hundred clients but it was a heavy beast to get off the ground. That's exactly the niche this machine is built for, high specs/performance running on-site, on power but portable between installations. I even used one with a defective battery for a year or so, didn't matter.
with the Clevo P577wm having had extreme desktop CPU and 2 GPU's so this has been done for years, though this might be the first 15" notebook to go with a desktop cpu.
Not quite my friend. May I introduce you to my Eurocom, from 2000, 1st 1GHz Desktop CPU in a laptop, with 133MHz FSB.
It was fully loaded, and around ~$5k at the time, coming with a MASSIVE 512MB of RAM.
The fact that it had built in Firewire, V.90 modem, dual PCMCIA, dedicated video card with a whole 16MB of vram, dual HDDs. What I really liked was the screen, resoultion of 1400x1050 at 15", which still betters some craptops sold today.
The keyboard and build quality / aesthetics were pretty poor though. I gave it away to a buddy in 2008, and he seemed quite pleased with it. But man did it get hot, as did the 1.7GHz one I had about 5yrs later (also a desktop cpu). My M570RU (with mobile cpu) was much, much better though, in every way.
I'm pretty much an Alienware convert now though, but I could be tempted if price, spec, and screen were right...
88W ? There's no way it's an 88W chip. Even the desktop version is 4790S which is 65 watts. And Haswell mobile is 47 Watts with most of the performance. The MSI has double the battery life.
And yes, there are non-desktop CPU notebooks from Clevo, though they're not identical to the P750ZM. The Eurocom M5 Pro is based on the Clevo P650SE chassis and has specs similar to the Gigabyte P35W v3 -- Optimus (I believe), i7-4710HQ, GTX 980M. http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,257,0)ec
The reason why this laptop exists is because Intel is no longer selling socketed mobile processors. MSI, Alienware, and ASUS all went full BGA cpus for their entire lineup. Clevo did this for most laptops, but has this laptop to corner the entire socketed market all to itself.
The only issue I see with this is the heatspreader. Haswell's heatspreader is not good at all, and this shows in the CPU vs GPU temps. In the P750zm there is a heatpipe connecting the GPU and CPU heatsinks, so a difference of more than ~10C should never happen.
The i5-4690k and i7-4790k are 88w parts. The previous "non devils canyon" parts (4670k, 4770k) were 84w. The "Xeon" equivalent of these chips, ie, the E3-1230v3, is 80w.
That is TDP. It doesn't mean the chips use 88w. It simply means they are manufactured to handle a higher temperature (tweaked power delivery on the packaging, better thermal insulation, etc) and even if not overclocked, this means they will turbo up to higher frequencies and for longer periods of time.
And considering the IGP isn't even being used (that's 1/4th the die area of Haswell) there is a lot of cooling headroom since many transistors aren't even being used. Typically these chips will use around 70w at stock load without the IGP enabled.
And for dekstop-replacement laptops this is pretty tame vs the LGA 1366 desktop cpu that were in these kinds of laptop's when I last payed attention to them and last i remember all the core i7 1366 cpu's were 130W chips.
(and I would easly guess there are LGA 2011 and 2011-3 base laptops as well out there.)
You'll need a new chipset and motherboard, so it will probably be in the P751ZM or something like that. From what I've seen, Broadwell will be about 5% faster at the same clocks compared to Haswell.
I suppose Intel can keep with Z97, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a new chipset -- this is Intel after all. When we were on LGA 775 forever, Intel had something like six chipsets. A few companies like ASRock even supported Core 2 and such on old "P4 only" chipset. I'm trying to think of any new CPU from Intel that didn't have a new chipset released around the same time -- not that a new chipset was always required, but it has always been available. I'm sure someone can remember a time or two when that wasn't the case, though. :-)
P751ZM has the same components but in a 17" form factor. I'm sure they will update both machines with broadwell when the time comes for them to be released.
Beveled corners on keyboard keys are a FEATURE. It's one of the subtle ways that one's fingers feel their placement on keys. I find Apple keyboards disconcerting because they lack these bevels and my fingers had an awfully hard time adjusting to my rMBP keyboard at first. Still prefer almost any other keyboard to the rMBP keyboard but I've come to tolerate it and be reasonably proficient on it.
Don't knock Clevo for being clever enough to actually include bevelled keys!
yeah, i actually prefer bevelled keys to chic-let style keys. I was a little dismayed when my 15" MBP in 2008/2009 was refreshed with chic-let keys and the removal of a dedicated trackpad button. I certainly bang the right side of my hinged trackpad more than the left, and it's starting to show on my current MBP with a slight depression on the right side :(
I wasn't trying to ding them, merely pointing out the difference in look and feel. As I said, I don't find the keyboard to be dramatically different from other laptop keyboards, which is generally a good thing. Then again, I can type fine on a variety of keyboards without complaining much. I just find it interesting how after going to chiclet keys for a while, we're now seeing keyboards start to look a bit more like the older beveled keys from years back.
Agreed. I was just reading about the new Macbook on the Apple site and they're actually advertising that the keys on the new keyboard are more concave for exactly the reason I mentioned. Since the industry often follows Apple I expect deeper concavity to become the new chiclet style keyboard norm, which will be welcome.
Overall pretty cool review, I wish they had/gave you a 1080p with 120Hz refresh display to test. Overall, I think 120Hz refresh is a better option/upgrade than 4K, as viewing movies and other media has a nice "smooth" effect.
errr... where's that edit button. I'm really looking forward to that overlocking article. I wonder if it's actually viable in a 15" chassis. That being said, is the i7-4790K removable/user replaceable? It's not soldered to the MB is it?
Correct, LGA1150 (Haswell) desktop parts are all socketed; there are certain soldered down SKUs like the i7-4770R, but that's an OEM only part.
Regarding overclocking, the CPU is already tapped out, but with the right BIOS and drivers (and with the cooling fans at 100%), you can get a substantial boost in performance. I've seen some people claiming "stable" performance at +350 core and +500 RAM, but at least on my sample notebook that's not remotely likely. +225 core and +350 RAM on the other hand passed all the benchmarks I threw at it.
Clevo machines pride themselves on easy user access to parts and upgrade-ability (even if the BIOS doesn't always support a new video card... but that's what Prema is for).
Also, the 120Hz screen you want does not exist. Only four 1080p 120Hz panels exist between 13.3" and 18.4" and all four are 17.3" panels. One 16.5" 900p 120Hz panel exists, but would not fit in that. All other existing 120Hz panels are in the vicinity of 720p and 768p in resolution and ALL twelve 120Hz panels in the size range I listed above are discontinued.
Nobody cared for 120Hz enough, so they didn't sell well enough to keep production.
mainly because they were mainly marketed as screens for 3D and nobody cared enough about 3d especially when they were generally $250-300 more than a basic 1080p60 screen
oh and when 3D was around the graphics card had a hard time running at enjoyable framerates while in 3D mode. The 980m for the most part doesn't have that issue
I've seen the overclocks for the 4790K in this chassis and it will hit the OC for a second and drop back down to the base clock speeds. Besides even in a desktop you won't get much more out of Devils Canyon. The GPU has no issues from what I recall.
I completely agree with you on that one. Don't get me wrong, 4k is a very noticable upgrade from 1080p, but the jump to 120Hz is much more worthwhile imho.
Unfortunately, to get movies to show smooth motion also requires computationally expensive frame interpolation software (like the SVP project); merely having a 120Hz-capable monitor doesnt really change the way 24fps material is displayed. While this notebook is undoubtably quite powerfull (I have been using and upgrading to the equivalent sager/clevo 15" models for the past couple of generations) it will unfortunately not be able to produce even a low quality interpolated 120Hz video stream (4 interpolated frames, from a 24Hz source, produced in a single 8.33ms frame period - ouch). So while I (or rather my wife) would love to be able to replace my current htpc (Intel 5960X, Nvidia GTX 780Ti in SLI) with something a bit more streamlined, I don't think this is quite the answer.
I am, however, definitely going to upgrade my current clevo to this monster asap.
yeah I'm not buying a new gaming laptop unless it has a 120hz display.
is anyone even selling a gaming laptop right now that has one? Alienware isn't selling them anymore but you can swap the panel out on the new ones with a 120hz panel.
I'm a pervious owner of three Clevos, one of them being a Eurocom branded model;
I believe the laptop 330W supply (as exists on the M18x) promises to *deliver* 330W, not that it only takes 330W from the wall, and then providing 85% efficiency whilst doing it... which would thereby give the machine only 280.5W. Please correct me if I'm wrong though...
Anway, I H A T E those custom Clevo 4-pin PSU connectors. With my M18x, I can actually *charge* it with any PSU that has a connector that is *physically* the same and that happens to be lying about, thereby making the machine more *portable*. You'll not see that custom connector again, outside of Clevo that is, as far as my eyes are concerned.
But I say, drop the battery altogether - and give us twice the cooling, or half the weight / chassis depth. Come on, you know it makes sense. I can count the times I've actually *needed* to use my battery on my two hands. (think check-in desk confirming a return ticket out of a country - now done [accepted by airline staff] on your smartphone.
18.4" or bust for MY money though. And I'd like that at QHD 2560 x 1440 please, nothing higher, it is just too demanding for laptop GPUs...
Build it, and they will come. Alienware dropped the 18.4" line (ball) with the recent M18. A market gap does indeed exist, but not with a Clevo keyboard, as many Clevo previous owners can attest...
That's true on the connector -- I find it's location and connection to be quite undesirable. I've had the cable fall out numerous times while moving the notebook around a bit. Anyway, I think the custom connector is supposed to help with delivering up to 330W -- and yes, it delivers up to 330W, so it could potentially draw as much as ~390W from the wall is my understanding. If you're wondering, under full load, even with overclocking, I don't think I've hit more than about 270W at the wall.
MSI is trying to fill it with the GT80 Titan . Though its only a 1080 pls screen and a socketed cpu, it comes with a 4710 or 4980 HQ and 980m in SLI. oh and it has a mechanical keyboard. Crazy expensive but all 18.4" notebooks with SLI were/are overpriced.
I bet those temperatures would be much better if eurocom went with mobile unlocked cpu (no IHS). But there is a thing with Intel, they probably want some crazy prices for those extreme mobile cpus (basically a 4770k without a heat spreader). I wouldn't be surprised if it costs $1k
While it can hit up to 4GHz with Turbo Boost, the nominal guaranteed clock speed is only 3.1GHz. It's a 57W TDP part as well, and the price is generally $1000.
The i7-4980HQ is a non-socket chip that does 2.8-4.0GHz, with the same 57W TDP, and it's priced at $623. In practice, both will likely have to clock down to 3.4-3.6GHz under sustained loads would be my guess, so the i7-4790K is still roughly 16-20% faster. And it also only costs $339. Basically it's more performance for a lower total price, but battery life and mobility take the hit.
Agreed - I have a 3920XM (x45,42,40,38) and a 4712HQ next to me - and no matter what task / benchamark I throw at them both, the 4712HQ is only ~20% slower, or less. Despite the increase of GHz on the XM part. The XM part will eventually throttle to save itself (thanks Intel), making the XM part moot in Asia (where its hot all the time, less so in Blighty).
But I can't give up this big screen. I hope not to be buried with my M18xR2, as I don't love it all that much.... :)
But despite the desktop value; order of preference goes something like this:
Screen size, GPU choices (cf / sli if poss), CPU performance, screen quality, storage options, memory options. I know I'm fussy, but it is my money...
Looks like a sweet machine, but I'll stick with a $400 laptop or tablet remoted into a powerful $1000 Windows desktop PC with lots of RAM and storage. This isn't great with poor LTE signal strength, but I have WiFi available most of the time.
Jarred, can you post the icc files for the calibrated display? Also, if you check with the service manual provided by Clevo, you'll notice that two of the USB ports are actually USB 3.1 with ASM 1142 used as the bridging controller. I was hoping that you could do some testing with those USB ports but it's a pity that you didn't discover this :(
the manual is linked here http://repo.palkeo.com/clevo-mirror/P75xZM/ on page 18 and 22 of the document you'll see the Clevo listed two of ports on the left as USB 3.1 and on page 81 which is the schematic diagram of the USB port shows the ASM1142 controller
I'd have to try and get a USB 3.1 peripheral or it won't do me much good I suppose. I believe Eurocom is also doing monitor calibration standard now (?), though my unit didn't have that.
Different people in different places -- none of us live all that close to each other, and unless you count Purch (or Anand's house), there is no official headquarters. :)
I'm extremely interested in the chip in the new Macbook Pro 13" (Core i7-5557U) and wondering how fast it is, how much power it uses, and how fast the HD 6100 graphics with 48 EUs are...
Are any other laptops coming out with this particular chip? Seems like the best portable device chip around, low power but still 28W TDP.
Interestingly the new Aorus X5 has the 5557U in a 15" format with SLI videocards...seems like overkill since there's no optimus support but will be nice to see the benches.
Any idea on why clevo did not include optimus? Does it not work properly with desktop CPUs? The battery life is attrocious. This laptop is much thinner and lighter than older EM and SM series and thus it's a shame that with the improved portability the battery life goes to crap.
Correct I believe: AFAIK, NVIDIA requires a mobile chipset to enable Optimus. I don't think there's any technical reason why they couldn't do it on a desktop chipset, but then even if it was supported Clevo likely wouldn't have enabled this as it's a high-end notebook.
I must be going crazy... but why is it nobody asks or comments about availability of screens with a non-16x9 aspect ratio?? A machine claiming to be DESKTOP REPLACEMENT should be usable for more then movie watching. How the hell is one supposed to work on documents or do any serious coding where the VERTICAL real live state is far more valuable than horizontal? Where are 2560x1600 matte 17-18" screens??? Is nobody making them? Is there no demand - am I the only lunatic who dreams of them year after year as if they were some unachievable sci-fi fantasy?
The Surface Pro 3 has a 3:2 screen. Yeah, I don't get what's up with the "shortscreen" format. Maybe people just really like scrolling. I miss my first laptop, which had a 4:3 screen.
Unfortunately, Surface Pro 3 isn't what I'd call "desktop replacement". When it comes to the latter, for me at least, anything less than 17" is a joke. On DTR machines I expect a large high-res screen, and a full-size keyboard (not a reused one originally designed for a 15.6" form factor.) Man, I'd KILL for a 4:3 screen on a DTR laptop. But at least 16:10 is the minimum for me; that's where I draw the line. It's why I still haven't upgraded from my ancient DELL M6400: all the newer machines (even ones styled as "mobile workstations"!!) are hopelessly mired in the 16:9 nightmare...
Glad to see a really nice review of one of these machines that reviews it for the capacity it's designed for, and not just complain about its size or aesthetics. Thanks very much for this Anandtech *gives thumbs up*
Since they squeezed a desktop i7 (88W TDP) and a dedicated mobile GPU into one of these things, I am curious if it would be possible for someone to squeeze something like the AMD A10-7800 APU (65W TDP) into a notebook chassis. I would think it could be done, and at a price point that would make it appealing too. Any thoughts?
It's possible to do it, sure, but the question is whether it's actually worth doing? If you just want a reasonably fast processor, Intel has plenty of mobile parts that can likely match the A10 desktop parts for performance while using less power.
In single-threaded performance, any Core i5 mobile part can beat the A10-7850K. For multi-threaded workloads, the A10-7850K might be a bit faster than a Core i5-4330m, but if so not by much. So you have a higher power APU that will require better cooling and end up delivering less performance. Sure, Graphics is faster than the Intel GPU, but that's not saying much.
I have the 7850K in one of my computers at home. It performs satisfactorily for everything I ask of it, including some gaming. The 7800 is a slightly neutered version of the 7850K, but has the advantage of a 1/3 power consumption reduction (less heat output being the key here). It also puts it at about 1/2 the power consumption of the reviewed unit (again, less heat being important). In this regard, if I could take it with me on the go, still do the work I need, plus entertain me when I want, it would be great.
I know that mobile i5s are performance-competitive with the 7850K/7800. The market just doesn't offer a lot of options with the aforementioned mobile i5 CPU paired up with a dedicated GPU of comparable performance to the integrated GPU of the 7850K/7800 that I am aware of. The integrated GPU on the i5s, in my experience, do not offer enough performance when gaming, even if the CPU is more than adequate. AMDs mobile APUs have proven inadequate in this regard as well, at least compared to the 7850K/7800.
I would think there might be a market for a mobile solution with a desktop AMD APU. If Clevo is able to produce a cooling solution for a laptop that can dissipate the output of both a Core i7-4790K and GTX 980m, it should theoretically be possible to dissipate the heat generated by a single chip with a lower TDP than the CPU alone in the reviewed configuration. Also, last I knew, the price of a mobile i5 CPU was more than the price of the AMD APUs in question, which could make the AMD APU equipped unit cheaper than an i5 unit with dedicated GPU or offer a better quality screen/faster memory (to take advantage of the APU's iGPU) in the same price point.
Why even have a battery? I'd rather they use the space to provide better/quieter cooling. Make a sheet battery you can attach underneath it if you really want a battery for one of these. I have a GX70 and I've rarely ever had it untethered from a wall. Usually its just to power it up while I fish out the brick from my backpack so I can get to work.
I, for one, do appreciate a built-in UPS. On DTR laptops, that's about all a battery is, anyway. So yeah, as long as it can provide ~30 min off the mains from full charge when new, it'd be good enough for me. Agreed, the rest of space/weight might as well be used for better cooling, or an optical drive, or something.
Anyone know the refresh rate of the 4K panel on this laptop? On the xotic pc website, it the samsung one claims to be running @ 60Hz, but I remember someone on a forum said they only operate at 48Hz?
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rowny - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
So you got a sample from Clevo resellers after all ? :)Now that's a laptop.
Are you considering to review Clevo P651SG ? Less bulky and scary :)
Flunk - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
No, that's a desktop replacement. You don't want to put that thing on your lap. Still, it works for the segment it's in, top performance with near-desktop bulk.JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
We can certainly try to get the P651SG for review to see how it compares with the others. I suspect it will be quite similar in performance to the Gigabyte P35W v3 review I'm working on, so it's more a question of whether you like the Clevo design more.rowny - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
It would be nice to see whether the desktop CPU really gives an edge in games over the mobile 4720HQ in the P651SG. The latter has soldered GPU and CPU though.Stuka87 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
They crammed a 4790K into a laptop?! Thats gutsy. Although I suppose not technically a laptop, more like a portable workstation. I think if it was mine I would choose a 4690K over the 4790K, they run noticeable cooler, even when overclocked to the same speeds.Kjella - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I used to be a consultant visiting 2-3 clients a week working on their systems but my laptop was my testbed. The software was like a 747, doesn't matter if it's one or a hundred clients but it was a heavy beast to get off the ground. That's exactly the niche this machine is built for, high specs/performance running on-site, on power but portable between installations. I even used one with a defective battery for a year or so, didn't matter.will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
with the Clevo P577wm having had extreme desktop CPU and 2 GPU's so this has been done for years, though this might be the first 15" notebook to go with a desktop cpu.Notmyusualid - Sunday, March 15, 2015 - link
Not quite my friend. May I introduce you to my Eurocom, from 2000, 1st 1GHz Desktop CPU in a laptop, with 133MHz FSB.It was fully loaded, and around ~$5k at the time, coming with a MASSIVE 512MB of RAM.
The fact that it had built in Firewire, V.90 modem, dual PCMCIA, dedicated video card with a whole 16MB of vram, dual HDDs. What I really liked was the screen, resoultion of 1400x1050 at 15", which still betters some craptops sold today.
Link: http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure%281,25,0%29
Also, a bit of a timeline on Eurocom (and thus Clevo, in effect):
http://www.eurocom.com/ec/innovations%28%29ec
The keyboard and build quality / aesthetics were pretty poor though. I gave it away to a buddy in 2008, and he seemed quite pleased with it. But man did it get hot, as did the 1.7GHz one I had about 5yrs later (also a desktop cpu). My M570RU (with mobile cpu) was much, much better though, in every way.
I'm pretty much an Alienware convert now though, but I could be tempted if price, spec, and screen were right...
flyingpants1 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
88W ? There's no way it's an 88W chip. Even the desktop version is 4790S which is 65 watts. And Haswell mobile is 47 Watts with most of the performance. The MSI has double the battery life.flyingpants1 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Wow. Just.. wow. I understand desktop replacement, but 4790k overclocked is overkill.Is there a version with GTX 980m, but without a desktop CPU?
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-...And yes, there are non-desktop CPU notebooks from Clevo, though they're not identical to the P750ZM. The Eurocom M5 Pro is based on the Clevo P650SE chassis and has specs similar to the Gigabyte P35W v3 -- Optimus (I believe), i7-4710HQ, GTX 980M.
http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,257,0)ec
will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
though I think the P650 solders there cpu and gpu on the mainboard so there is a tradeoff.Khenglish - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
The reason why this laptop exists is because Intel is no longer selling socketed mobile processors. MSI, Alienware, and ASUS all went full BGA cpus for their entire lineup. Clevo did this for most laptops, but has this laptop to corner the entire socketed market all to itself.The only issue I see with this is the heatspreader. Haswell's heatspreader is not good at all, and this shows in the CPU vs GPU temps. In the P750zm there is a heatpipe connecting the GPU and CPU heatsinks, so a difference of more than ~10C should never happen.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Keep in mind that i7-4790K is technically Devil's Canyon, and part of the difference was a change in the Thermal Interface Material:http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devils-canyon-r...
Stuka87 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
The 4790K is an 88W chip. The 4790S is a 3.2GHz part. The 4790K is a 4GHz part. The 4790K is a desktop chip, not a mobile chip.Samus - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
The i5-4690k and i7-4790k are 88w parts. The previous "non devils canyon" parts (4670k, 4770k) were 84w. The "Xeon" equivalent of these chips, ie, the E3-1230v3, is 80w.That is TDP. It doesn't mean the chips use 88w. It simply means they are manufactured to handle a higher temperature (tweaked power delivery on the packaging, better thermal insulation, etc) and even if not overclocked, this means they will turbo up to higher frequencies and for longer periods of time.
And considering the IGP isn't even being used (that's 1/4th the die area of Haswell) there is a lot of cooling headroom since many transistors aren't even being used. Typically these chips will use around 70w at stock load without the IGP enabled.
warmon6 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
Er... the desktop 4790k is 88W.And for dekstop-replacement laptops this is pretty tame vs the LGA 1366 desktop cpu that were in these kinds of laptop's when I last payed attention to them and last i remember all the core i7 1366 cpu's were 130W chips.
(and I would easly guess there are LGA 2011 and 2011-3 base laptops as well out there.)
hyno111 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I'm waiting to see how 65w broadwell CPU performs on this beast...JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
You'll need a new chipset and motherboard, so it will probably be in the P751ZM or something like that. From what I've seen, Broadwell will be about 5% faster at the same clocks compared to Haswell.Telemachus13 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
Why would a new chipset be needed? It was my understanding that Z97 supported Broadwell.Also, P751ZM is already the name of the European version.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
I suppose Intel can keep with Z97, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a new chipset -- this is Intel after all. When we were on LGA 775 forever, Intel had something like six chipsets. A few companies like ASRock even supported Core 2 and such on old "P4 only" chipset. I'm trying to think of any new CPU from Intel that didn't have a new chipset released around the same time -- not that a new chipset was always required, but it has always been available. I'm sure someone can remember a time or two when that wasn't the case, though. :-)will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
P751ZM has the same components but in a 17" form factor. I'm sure they will update both machines with broadwell when the time comes for them to be released.bji - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Beveled corners on keyboard keys are a FEATURE. It's one of the subtle ways that one's fingers feel their placement on keys. I find Apple keyboards disconcerting because they lack these bevels and my fingers had an awfully hard time adjusting to my rMBP keyboard at first. Still prefer almost any other keyboard to the rMBP keyboard but I've come to tolerate it and be reasonably proficient on it.Don't knock Clevo for being clever enough to actually include bevelled keys!
Sushisamurai - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
yeah, i actually prefer bevelled keys to chic-let style keys. I was a little dismayed when my 15" MBP in 2008/2009 was refreshed with chic-let keys and the removal of a dedicated trackpad button. I certainly bang the right side of my hinged trackpad more than the left, and it's starting to show on my current MBP with a slight depression on the right side :(JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I wasn't trying to ding them, merely pointing out the difference in look and feel. As I said, I don't find the keyboard to be dramatically different from other laptop keyboards, which is generally a good thing. Then again, I can type fine on a variety of keyboards without complaining much. I just find it interesting how after going to chiclet keys for a while, we're now seeing keyboards start to look a bit more like the older beveled keys from years back.bji - Thursday, March 12, 2015 - link
Agreed. I was just reading about the new Macbook on the Apple site and they're actually advertising that the keys on the new keyboard are more concave for exactly the reason I mentioned. Since the industry often follows Apple I expect deeper concavity to become the new chiclet style keyboard norm, which will be welcome.Sushisamurai - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Overall pretty cool review, I wish they had/gave you a 1080p with 120Hz refresh display to test. Overall, I think 120Hz refresh is a better option/upgrade than 4K, as viewing movies and other media has a nice "smooth" effect.Sushisamurai - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
errr... where's that edit button. I'm really looking forward to that overlocking article. I wonder if it's actually viable in a 15" chassis. That being said, is the i7-4790K removable/user replaceable? It's not soldered to the MB is it?JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Correct, LGA1150 (Haswell) desktop parts are all socketed; there are certain soldered down SKUs like the i7-4770R, but that's an OEM only part.Regarding overclocking, the CPU is already tapped out, but with the right BIOS and drivers (and with the cooling fans at 100%), you can get a substantial boost in performance. I've seen some people claiming "stable" performance at +350 core and +500 RAM, but at least on my sample notebook that's not remotely likely. +225 core and +350 RAM on the other hand passed all the benchmarks I threw at it.
D2ultima - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
It is not soldered, and is change-able.Clevo machines pride themselves on easy user access to parts and upgrade-ability (even if the BIOS doesn't always support a new video card... but that's what Prema is for).
Also, the 120Hz screen you want does not exist. Only four 1080p 120Hz panels exist between 13.3" and 18.4" and all four are 17.3" panels. One 16.5" 900p 120Hz panel exists, but would not fit in that. All other existing 120Hz panels are in the vicinity of 720p and 768p in resolution and ALL twelve 120Hz panels in the size range I listed above are discontinued.
Nobody cared for 120Hz enough, so they didn't sell well enough to keep production.
will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
mainly because they were mainly marketed as screens for 3D and nobody cared enough about 3d especially when they were generally $250-300 more than a basic 1080p60 screenwill54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
oh and when 3D was around the graphics card had a hard time running at enjoyable framerates while in 3D mode. The 980m for the most part doesn't have that issuewill54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
I've seen the overclocks for the 4790K in this chassis and it will hit the OC for a second and drop back down to the base clock speeds. Besides even in a desktop you won't get much more out of Devils Canyon. The GPU has no issues from what I recall.Xenonite - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I completely agree with you on that one. Don't get me wrong, 4k is a very noticable upgrade from 1080p, but the jump to 120Hz is much more worthwhile imho.Unfortunately, to get movies to show smooth motion also requires computationally expensive frame interpolation software (like the SVP project); merely having a 120Hz-capable monitor doesnt really change the way 24fps material is displayed.
While this notebook is undoubtably quite powerfull (I have been using and upgrading to the equivalent sager/clevo 15" models for the past couple of generations) it will unfortunately not be able to produce even a low quality interpolated 120Hz video stream (4 interpolated frames, from a 24Hz source, produced in a single 8.33ms frame period - ouch).
So while I (or rather my wife) would love to be able to replace my current htpc (Intel 5960X, Nvidia GTX 780Ti in SLI) with something a bit more streamlined, I don't think this is quite the answer.
I am, however, definitely going to upgrade my current clevo to this monster asap.
will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
haha wow nice htpc setup!shatteredx - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
yeah I'm not buying a new gaming laptop unless it has a 120hz display.is anyone even selling a gaming laptop right now that has one? Alienware isn't selling them anymore but you can swap the panel out on the new ones with a 120hz panel.
SilthDraeth - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Why are there never any pictures of the back of the laptop closed, or open? Does this vent out the rear like the Asus G series, or not?Stuka87 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
There are two giant vents on the back at each corner that exhaust air. It pulls air in from underneath.SilthDraeth - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Yes, I saw the vents from the top down disassembled view. but I wanted to see the assembled rear.JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Sorry -- I usually include these and didn't even realize they were missing until I read your comment. I've added two images of the back (including the ports):http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/4296/Clevo-P...
http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/4296/Clevo-P...
Notmyusualid - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I'm a pervious owner of three Clevos, one of them being a Eurocom branded model;I believe the laptop 330W supply (as exists on the M18x) promises to *deliver* 330W, not that it only takes 330W from the wall, and then providing 85% efficiency whilst doing it... which would thereby give the machine only 280.5W. Please correct me if I'm wrong though...
Anway, I H A T E those custom Clevo 4-pin PSU connectors. With my M18x, I can actually *charge* it with any PSU that has a connector that is *physically* the same and that happens to be lying about, thereby making the machine more *portable*. You'll not see that custom connector again, outside of Clevo that is, as far as my eyes are concerned.
But I say, drop the battery altogether - and give us twice the cooling, or half the weight / chassis depth. Come on, you know it makes sense. I can count the times I've actually *needed* to use my battery on my two hands. (think check-in desk confirming a return ticket out of a country - now done [accepted by airline staff] on your smartphone.
18.4" or bust for MY money though. And I'd like that at QHD 2560 x 1440 please, nothing higher, it is just too demanding for laptop GPUs...
Build it, and they will come. Alienware dropped the 18.4" line (ball) with the recent M18. A market gap does indeed exist, but not with a Clevo keyboard, as many Clevo previous owners can attest...
Peace out.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
That's true on the connector -- I find it's location and connection to be quite undesirable. I've had the cable fall out numerous times while moving the notebook around a bit. Anyway, I think the custom connector is supposed to help with delivering up to 330W -- and yes, it delivers up to 330W, so it could potentially draw as much as ~390W from the wall is my understanding. If you're wondering, under full load, even with overclocking, I don't think I've hit more than about 270W at the wall.Murloc - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Well at least 15 minutes of battery life is useful if people move the computer around without turning it off.will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
MSI is trying to fill it with the GT80 Titan . Though its only a 1080 pls screen and a socketed cpu, it comes with a 4710 or 4980 HQ and 980m in SLI. oh and it has a mechanical keyboard. Crazy expensive but all 18.4" notebooks with SLI were/are overpriced.SuperVeloce - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I bet those temperatures would be much better if eurocom went with mobile unlocked cpu (no IHS). But there is a thing with Intel, they probably want some crazy prices for those extreme mobile cpus (basically a 4770k without a heat spreader). I wouldn't be surprised if it costs $1kJarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
The fastest mobile part right now is the i7-4940MX:http://ark.intel.com/products/78940/Intel-Core-i7-...
While it can hit up to 4GHz with Turbo Boost, the nominal guaranteed clock speed is only 3.1GHz. It's a 57W TDP part as well, and the price is generally $1000.
The i7-4980HQ is a non-socket chip that does 2.8-4.0GHz, with the same 57W TDP, and it's priced at $623. In practice, both will likely have to clock down to 3.4-3.6GHz under sustained loads would be my guess, so the i7-4790K is still roughly 16-20% faster. And it also only costs $339. Basically it's more performance for a lower total price, but battery life and mobility take the hit.
Notmyusualid - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Agreed - I have a 3920XM (x45,42,40,38) and a 4712HQ next to me - and no matter what task / benchamark I throw at them both, the 4712HQ is only ~20% slower, or less. Despite the increase of GHz on the XM part. The XM part will eventually throttle to save itself (thanks Intel), making the XM part moot in Asia (where its hot all the time, less so in Blighty).But I can't give up this big screen. I hope not to be buried with my M18xR2, as I don't love it all that much.... :)
But despite the desktop value; order of preference goes something like this:
Screen size, GPU choices (cf / sli if poss), CPU performance, screen quality, storage options, memory options. I know I'm fussy, but it is my money...
will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
yeah I think a 4940mx is a $1k chip, from what I have seen they charge an extra $800 for it when you upgrade from a 4720MQ.JeffFlanagan - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Looks like a sweet machine, but I'll stick with a $400 laptop or tablet remoted into a powerful $1000 Windows desktop PC with lots of RAM and storage. This isn't great with poor LTE signal strength, but I have WiFi available most of the time.Denithor - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Sheesh, $3200 and no SSD included? Are they kidding? WTF?Denithor - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Okay, duh moment, was reading specs from bottom up looking for HDD/SSD, saw the HDD and didn't go on.Reading fail!
LOL
Buk Lau - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Jarred, can you post the icc files for the calibrated display? Also, if you check with the service manual provided by Clevo, you'll notice that two of the USB ports are actually USB 3.1 with ASM 1142 used as the bridging controller. I was hoping that you could do some testing with those USB ports but it's a pity that you didn't discover this :(the manual is linked here http://repo.palkeo.com/clevo-mirror/P75xZM/
on page 18 and 22 of the document you'll see the Clevo listed two of ports on the left as USB 3.1 and on page 81 which is the schematic diagram of the USB port shows the ASM1142 controller
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I'd have to try and get a USB 3.1 peripheral or it won't do me much good I suppose. I believe Eurocom is also doing monitor calibration standard now (?), though my unit didn't have that.Buk Lau - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Doesn't AT have a bunch of those lol? I'd assume since you guys did USB 3.1 testing articles beforeJarredWalton - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
Different people in different places -- none of us live all that close to each other, and unless you count Purch (or Anand's house), there is no official headquarters. :)noeldillabough - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I'm extremely interested in the chip in the new Macbook Pro 13" (Core i7-5557U) and wondering how fast it is, how much power it uses, and how fast the HD 6100 graphics with 48 EUs are...Are any other laptops coming out with this particular chip? Seems like the best portable device chip around, low power but still 28W TDP.
noeldillabough - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Interestingly the new Aorus X5 has the 5557U in a 15" format with SLI videocards...seems like overkill since there's no optimus support but will be nice to see the benches.will54 - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
Wow I bet that chip is going to bottleneck the X5. seems like a waste to have sli and use a low voltage cpu.Zak - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Did someone throw up on that keyboard?Khenglish - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Any idea on why clevo did not include optimus? Does it not work properly with desktop CPUs? The battery life is attrocious. This laptop is much thinner and lighter than older EM and SM series and thus it's a shame that with the improved portability the battery life goes to crap.JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Correct I believe: AFAIK, NVIDIA requires a mobile chipset to enable Optimus. I don't think there's any technical reason why they couldn't do it on a desktop chipset, but then even if it was supported Clevo likely wouldn't have enabled this as it's a high-end notebook.boeush - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
I must be going crazy... but why is it nobody asks or comments about availability of screens with a non-16x9 aspect ratio?? A machine claiming to be DESKTOP REPLACEMENT should be usable for more then movie watching. How the hell is one supposed to work on documents or do any serious coding where the VERTICAL real live state is far more valuable than horizontal? Where are 2560x1600 matte 17-18" screens??? Is nobody making them? Is there no demand - am I the only lunatic who dreams of them year after year as if they were some unachievable sci-fi fantasy?boeush - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
*sigh* pardon the stupid typos brought to you courtesy of auto-incorrect on my smartphone... You get the gist though, I hope...chlamchowder - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
The Surface Pro 3 has a 3:2 screen.Yeah, I don't get what's up with the "shortscreen" format. Maybe people just really like scrolling. I miss my first laptop, which had a 4:3 screen.
boeush - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Unfortunately, Surface Pro 3 isn't what I'd call "desktop replacement". When it comes to the latter, for me at least, anything less than 17" is a joke. On DTR machines I expect a large high-res screen, and a full-size keyboard (not a reused one originally designed for a 15.6" form factor.) Man, I'd KILL for a 4:3 screen on a DTR laptop. But at least 16:10 is the minimum for me; that's where I draw the line. It's why I still haven't upgraded from my ancient DELL M6400: all the newer machines (even ones styled as "mobile workstations"!!) are hopelessly mired in the 16:9 nightmare...Notmyusualid - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
^ Kind of sums up the situation for me too.kgh00007 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
Nice review! Is there any chance you are going to ger in the 2015 Alienware 15 for review?D2ultima - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
Glad to see a really nice review of one of these machines that reviews it for the capacity it's designed for, and not just complain about its size or aesthetics. Thanks very much for this Anandtech *gives thumbs up*mrcaffeinex - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
Since they squeezed a desktop i7 (88W TDP) and a dedicated mobile GPU into one of these things, I am curious if it would be possible for someone to squeeze something like the AMD A10-7800 APU (65W TDP) into a notebook chassis. I would think it could be done, and at a price point that would make it appealing too. Any thoughts?JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - link
It's possible to do it, sure, but the question is whether it's actually worth doing? If you just want a reasonably fast processor, Intel has plenty of mobile parts that can likely match the A10 desktop parts for performance while using less power.In single-threaded performance, any Core i5 mobile part can beat the A10-7850K. For multi-threaded workloads, the A10-7850K might be a bit faster than a Core i5-4330m, but if so not by much. So you have a higher power APU that will require better cooling and end up delivering less performance. Sure, Graphics is faster than the Intel GPU, but that's not saying much.
mrcaffeinex - Thursday, March 12, 2015 - link
I have the 7850K in one of my computers at home. It performs satisfactorily for everything I ask of it, including some gaming. The 7800 is a slightly neutered version of the 7850K, but has the advantage of a 1/3 power consumption reduction (less heat output being the key here). It also puts it at about 1/2 the power consumption of the reviewed unit (again, less heat being important). In this regard, if I could take it with me on the go, still do the work I need, plus entertain me when I want, it would be great.I know that mobile i5s are performance-competitive with the 7850K/7800. The market just doesn't offer a lot of options with the aforementioned mobile i5 CPU paired up with a dedicated GPU of comparable performance to the integrated GPU of the 7850K/7800 that I am aware of. The integrated GPU on the i5s, in my experience, do not offer enough performance when gaming, even if the CPU is more than adequate. AMDs mobile APUs have proven inadequate in this regard as well, at least compared to the 7850K/7800.
I would think there might be a market for a mobile solution with a desktop AMD APU. If Clevo is able to produce a cooling solution for a laptop that can dissipate the output of both a Core i7-4790K and GTX 980m, it should theoretically be possible to dissipate the heat generated by a single chip with a lower TDP than the CPU alone in the reviewed configuration. Also, last I knew, the price of a mobile i5 CPU was more than the price of the AMD APUs in question, which could make the AMD APU equipped unit cheaper than an i5 unit with dedicated GPU or offer a better quality screen/faster memory (to take advantage of the APU's iGPU) in the same price point.
Manch - Thursday, March 12, 2015 - link
Why even have a battery? I'd rather they use the space to provide better/quieter cooling. Make a sheet battery you can attach underneath it if you really want a battery for one of these. I have a GX70 and I've rarely ever had it untethered from a wall. Usually its just to power it up while I fish out the brick from my backpack so I can get to work.boeush - Thursday, March 12, 2015 - link
I, for one, do appreciate a built-in UPS. On DTR laptops, that's about all a battery is, anyway. So yeah, as long as it can provide ~30 min off the mains from full charge when new, it'd be good enough for me. Agreed, the rest of space/weight might as well be used for better cooling, or an optical drive, or something.caplus12000 - Sunday, May 24, 2015 - link
Anyone know the refresh rate of the 4K panel on this laptop? On the xotic pc website, it the samsung one claims to be running @ 60Hz, but I remember someone on a forum said they only operate at 48Hz?