Because the current gen consoles both have 8GB of unified memory, 2GB isn't going to be sufficient for very long. Realistically a PS4 or Xbox One could have a game that had 6GB of textures loaded up at once easily and we're going to see more of that in the future. Textures are not computationally complex and they have the RAM for it. You don't really want to be buying a new graphics card that will only last you one year.
This is the same illogical thinking that other PC gamers have when making the argument for 8 core AMD CPUs vs a clearly superior quad core Intel CPU. The 8GB on a console is shared, not dedicated to the GPU. As long as the system has 8GB of RAM, a GPUwith 2GB of VRAM is going to be good enough for 1080p. Hell, if you look at some of the games that have already been released on these consoles and PCs like Watch Dogs, the 8GB of total system RAM on the consoles is actually a limiting factor compared to a PC with 8 or 16 GB of system RAM plus a 2, 3 or 4 GB GPU. This is one of the reasons these demanding multi-platform games run in lower resolutions like 900p on the PS4 and XB1 while they can run perfectly fine in 1080p on a PC with only a 2GB GPU.
I agree. I realized that I upgrade every 3 to 4 years. From a NVidia 8800 GT, to AMD 5770, and now GTX 970. I just don't see the 960 keeping up for the next 4 yrs when it already struggles with something like AC Unity today. Although I can't believe that 5770 is still keeping up, albeit barely.
I have yet to find a PC game where i couldn't run it at max settings with 8x anisotropic and 2-4x msaa (or whatever, mfaa, cant remember) and had any kind of memory issues. The "modern" consoles will NEVER use 6gb of memory for video stuff, the kind of computing requirements it would require to use that much graphics memory would be ridiculous. We're talking like 1440p+ with ridiculous texture settings, shadow settings, AA, etc etc. Far FAR past what the meager GPU in the consoles is capable of rendering.
Basically to use that much graphics memory they'd have to load the GPU down so much it would turn into a slideshow. Just not gonna happen.
While i don't really disagree with you that 2gb isnt going to be sufficient for much longer, this is a mid level enthusiast card, its not a high end card, 2gb is plenty for what most people will be doing with it.
The PS4 and Xbox One can only use about 5.5GB of memory for games. So I'd say that it's reasonable to think that around 4GB of textures could be loaded at a given time.
I would have liked to see 3GB default for the video RAM. I'm guessing we'll see those. I suspect that this 2GB default is for the manufacturers to have more of a price range between 960 ($199) and 970 ($329). I'd suspect to see some OCed, 3GB 960's at $250.
How exactly do GTX 960 and enthusiast fit into the same sentence? It seems to be a matter of definition. In my opinion and with most people I discuss graphics cards enthusiast is the stuff above high-end (think titan/295x2). What is referred to as enthusiast here I would usually call upper mainstream/performance sector.
I'm sorry to hear you think it's rude, but you're sadly mistaken. The PC Enthusiast community is a specific class of people who buy the highest end available classes of hardware at premium prices. Enjoying computers and taking interest in hardware, or buying mid range hardware (even if brand new) does not make you an enthusiast.
"Enthusiast computing refers to a sub-culture of personal computer users who focus on extremely high-end computers. Manufacturers of performance-oriented parts typically include an enthusiast model in their offerings. Enthusiast computers (often referred to as a "box", "build", or "rig" by their owners) commonly feature extravagant cases[1] and high-end components, and are sometimes liquid cooled."
There are three quality warnings on that page. Don't be an elitist, a PC enthusiast is just someone who is interested in computers as a hobby. There is no reason to leave people out of the "enthusiast" club.
Nobody is being elitist, and it's not a special club. Nobody is being "left out." It's simply a categorization. You can't change the definition just because you don't like it.
Wikipedia is updated by people. So some douche bag can go in and put something in wikipedia that has no basis in reality. People can flag it for review, etc. It generally means, "take anything on this page with a grain of salt, at best". It hasn't been peer reviewed for any accuracy, etc.
So, by using the definition of a hardware bracket correctly, you believe I am an elitist? I'm sorry if you feel that way, but you can't simply redefine a term because you feel left out from something that's not even special to be. Being a PC enthusiast has nothing to do with the enthusiast performance bracket of hardware. It's just called that. Being a PC enthusiast does not require owning enthusiast tier hardware. It's just a name.
I don't understand why you guys are getting so offended and worked up about this. Do you think I'm saying you guys are not PC enthusiasts or something?
No, you're sadly mistaken. An enthusiast is someone who is interested in a field more than the average person. People who pay $200 for gaphics cards are absolutely enthusiasts. No regular, run of the mill computer use is going to just slap a $200 graphics card in their system so they can watch youtube and upload photos to tumblr and shit.
An enthusiast (noun) is someone interested in a field. Enthusiast (adj) hardware is a specific categorization of PC hardware referring to the highest end available stuff. It's been this way since forever ago. I do not know who came up with it or why, but that's what it refers to. It's not a special club that some small group of rich elite people don't want others in. It's just a phrase that refers to bleeding edge hardware. Nothing more.
Perhaps poor wording choice on my part. It is not used to describe the 'newness' of the part. Enthusiast grade hardware is used to define the highest performance sector. The 960 is considered one of NVidia's midrange or mainstream parts. Enthusiast hardware would consist of things like the Titan, or the 980, which are their high end parts.
No. Please read what I actually wrote, because that's not even close to what I said.
An enthusiast is different from the term that was chosen to represent the bracket of high end hardware. Having an enthusiast grade GPU or not does not mean you are or are not a PC enthusiast. The term was likely coined a long time ago when having high end hardware actually did correlate to being a PC enthusiast, but this day and age it simply refers to the performance bracket, and nothing at all about the user themselves.
I completely agree. The very first sentence, the definition of the term states that PC enthusiasts are "users who focus on extremely high-end computers." I also do not think that the 960 fits into this definition. The 960 and all GTX x60 parts before it have been clearly marketed and described as a "sweet spot" part by reviewers including this review. To me, sweet spot is the intersection of reasonable price and performance. You sacrifice some performance for a good price point. On the other hand, "enthusiast" is performance at all costs. This includes people who buy 6 or 8 core LGA 2011 CPUs and to them an i5 is low end. These people also buy 2 or 3 high end GPUs or multi-GPU cards like the 295x2 or Titan Z and only game in resolutions like 4k when everyone else is gaming in 1080p. If you look at Intel's CPU lineup, they even use the term "enthusiast" to describe their extreme series CPUs while the i7, i5 and i3s in the LGA 1150 class are considered "mainstream", the Pentium and Celeron are entry level or low end and the Xeons are workstation or server class. The same can be applied to GPUs.
Enthusiasts can still be interested in bang-for-your-buck options. The person who spends weeks or months reading reviews and waiting for new parts and good deals to build a well-rounded $600 system can be just as much or even more of an enthusiast as the guy who drops $5000 on an X99 system and a few watercooled Titans.
That makes potentially anyone at any price point an enthusiast. Which essentially makes the definition of enthusiast too broad to have any real meaning, especially when professional writers use it on one of the most prestigious tech sites.
I have a feeling your definition, although not wrong, is a misinterpretation of the definition under the current context that is in question.
Being both a student and an enthusiast, I frown upon your elitist ideals about an enthusiast community. If I had the disposable income, I probably wouldn't be too interested in cards like these, but given the situation I am in at the moment, this is the 'sweetspot' card for me.
Oh god here comes the political correctness police.. Relax, it's just a category for budget levels.
No one is saying you're less of a "gamer" because you can't afford or simply don't want to spend $1000 on a graphics card. We just need to give different names to graphics aiming a different price levels.
low end < mid end < high end < top end or enthusiast
I can be a fan of enthusiast wristwatches and never in my life be able to afford an IWC.
Yes, let`s fault a guy over some imaginary political correctness bullshit just because he`s using common definition of a word instead of niche hijacked variation.
Enthusiast means someone enthused over a given subject and not what your marketing zombie herder says.
Disappointing there isn't a review Ryan, but hope everything is OK on your end.
Pricing seems to be pretty good with this card given the performance. It'll be a no bells and whistles part at $200 for 1080p gaming, but that leaves a HUGE gap between the 970 and 960. Certainly leaves the door open for a cut down GM204 at some point for a 960Ti.
But honestly, anyone in the market here should really just extend their budget a bit and pick up something in the $300-$350 range (290/X, 970) for a much faster performing card.
Ditto, look forward to the review and hope everything is well.
I'm worried about that 128-bit bus...doesn't leave a lot of headroom for partner or end user optimizations. Seems like this is going to be bandwidth starved like the 750 was :\
I think you are right on the money there. Take a look at any 960 review that shows the card disassembled. The PCB of every card from whatever manufacturer has empty solder pads to accommodate two more ram chips (one each side of the board).
This would allow for 3GB ram with a 192 bit interface. So 960ti very probably exists and will use the same PCB as 960. Perhaps using defective GM204's with one entire GPC disabled and some SMM's disabled in the remaining GPC's.
Pretty much exactly what the rumors foretold. Whispers on the wind also spoke of o/cs up to 1.5GHz core, but even at stock clocks I imagine it's memory-limited.
Not an utter knockout like the 970, but not a bad product. With GPU prices here being so terrible, this might be what I resort to when I get around to my next build.
Not even close to a knockout as it's at best comparable to a Radeon 285 at similar price points. It hit's all the checkmarks of the 270X but really what's it bringing to the table? Not a must have card if you've got a 760/270/285/660ti .. have to go back further.. 500 series (NVidia) 5/6000 series (amd) to actually get bang for your buck.
Wow. $200 for a moba card? Are these guys really serious? I build entire moba boxes for $200. Using a $100 core 2 duo E8600 machine, a used intel X25-M, and a cheap video card that scores at least 700 on passmark. They run LoL just fine. A DX9 game usually flies even on a 500 point passmark card.
Honestly, the ~$100 750Ti is likely going to be a better value than the 960 for most gamers...unless the 960 comes down to the $150 level. From the reviews I've been looking at, the 750Ti is on the heels of the 960 in many DX9/DX10 games.
Who said it's a moba card? The one pic that has the moba reference just says "#1 GeForce GPU For MOBA Gamers", which in the context of the two pics it's sandwiched between is more of a statistic than opinion.
I'm disappointed not to see any reference card designs. With HEVC support and low TDP, the 960 is perfect for my mini-ITX HTPC, but I think it needs to exhaust it's own heat in order to keep the rest of the components cool.
Hopefully someone just smacks a reference 750Ti cooler on it. Perfect ITX size and the cooler is probably capable of cooling a 120-watt TDP chip with some material and surface area tweaking.
For HTPC I was looking more into a low profile card. And it happens that the most recent performing one is the 750 ti... Hard to put a hand on though ... If a LP 660 comes out this would definitely be an appeal to me
Ryan, when you do the full review can you poke nVidia whether the delta color compression also applies to GP-GPU loads?
The reason I'm asking is that we see even GTX970, which has more bandwidth per shader than other Maxwells, to be severely limited by memory bandwidth under some BOINC projects. Einstein@Home runs at ~75% memory controller load and a well-configured SETI@Home at 100%. Both projects are looking for patterns in signals which contain mostly random noise, so there's probably nothing to compress.
Making things even worse for GM204 is that under GP-GPU load (CUDA or OpenCL) the card is only allowed to run at performance level P2, where the memory is clocked at 6.0 GHz instead of 7.0 GHz. Try it: run e.g. Heaven in windowed mode and everything is fine. Then launch a GP-GPU program (e.g. memtestCL) along with it and memory clock & p-state drop immediately. nVidia inspector can show this. It can also increase the memory clock under P2 (which other utilities can't), but it's cumbersome because the GPU must not be running any GP-GPU work for the changes to have any effect. Also P2 memory clock can't be set higher than P0, so you always have to adjust both.
Watch out for these errors (eh, "unwanted behaviour") on GM206!
When you run GPGPU applications, would you rather get fast results, or more assurance that your results are correct? Overclocking is not a friend of correctness, which is why NVIDIA's Tesla cards are never clocked as fast as their desktop graphics cards. In that sense, I think some gratefulness is warranted, in that if GM204 cards did not slow down when running GPGPU applications, but instead occasionally made mistakes in their calculations, then you'd have to go and manually slow down your card every time you wanted to run such applications.
I'm not talking about overclocking, I'm talking about reaching the stock memory clock. The one the chips are being sold for, and the clock which is being advertised. If this was a matter of calculation errors, neither company should be allowed to sell the products like this (and the gamers would see more graphics errors & artifacts). And some Keplers ran GP-GPU just fine with 7.0 GHz stock memory clocks.
So my oldschool "get off my lawn" comment is as follows...
The benches are in, and GTX 960 sucks for a $200 card. And honestly it follow the footsteps of the 750 750/ti that also sucked (but everyone blushed about how power efficient it was, meh).
Okay, so before you label me an nVidia troll, my anger isn't for the reasons you think.
nVidia has mastered the art of stopping people from overclocking via limiting TDP. Hard. This sucks.
You'll never see a 970 beat a 980, or 960 be decent because before you could ever overclock enough nVidia will yank you back.
The 750 and 750ti also were gimped like this.
So my anger is yea, welcome to the new age of hardware enforced market segmentation. IN THE OLD DAYS if the GTX 960 was released, it would have been more exciting to see what more daring OEMs and/or overclockers did with this "salvaged" GPU die. GTX 960 @ 2.0GHz+ would have been interesting, and at least worth your time to look at.
Like say, overclocked GTX760 cards were at least interesting (Also note now nVidia NEVER released the card everyone wanted - GTX760ti). But GTX 960? Not even OEMs can get anything fun out of it.
So yea, welcome to the new world of hardware enforced Market Segmentation. It's been coming for a while, and we've seen the dust on the horizon for a few years now - it just happens that the GTX 960 is the product that really epitomizes it for graphics cards.
Yea, Intel has done this for years now, but at least they throw us a bone. (Don't believe me? Try overclocking P43 chipset over 420mhz - and that's ancient history now. Intel knows how to limit clock in hardware, they've just not completely shut you out.... yet).
I don't really care so much about overclocking video cards. In my experience it definitely effects their longevity. Still the 960 isn't really what you'd expect. Has to be the most expensive 128bit card I've ever seen at $270 (CAD) with only 2G of memory .. it's one of the those things that makes you go hmm...
Hi there, I have heard that Nvidia would release a Nvidia 960 Ti GTX version with a 192-bit memory bus. That is what i am waiting for. Would love to see a SLI result verse just a Nvidia 960 GTX with a 128-bit memory bus. Plus i have read somewhere that Nvidia WILL NOT RELEASE A Nvidia 960 gtx with a 256-bit memory bus. The SLI Combo would have beaten the Nvidia 980 GTX card and Nvidia does not want that to happen.
Is Anandtech going to ask any questions about faulty 970 cards and their inability to allocate more than 3.5GB or so of their 4GB of RAM at once?
Not saying there is a problem but its looking more and more like there is and Nvidia has only stated that they are "looking into it but that was a week ago...
Please make sure in the actual article you compare against the GeForce 750 and/or the TI variant. It is downright silly not to have it in the comparison chart.
50% improvement over the 660 on the same 28nm process is pretty impressive but not worth an upgrade to - for 1080p gamers. I used to own a couple 660s and I'd say that the next GTX x60, card made on the 20nm process, would be the time for 660 owners to begin to consider an upgrade. I wouldn't even call it the sweet spot right now. I think the extra $30 or so for a 280x would be well worth it even if you don't get all those useless over-hyped features like whatever that new AA is that is only used in like 4 games. And if you are on a budget, the real sweet spot is probably the 280. According to the last chart, the 280 is selling for $180 USD but I am looking at a few on Newegg right now for $165 after a rebate. Whenever the 280x comes out, I expect the prices on the 280 and 280x to drop even further. We know that AMD made a crap load of these GPUs thanks to litecoin miners last year and late 2013. This is why the 280 still hasn't been completely phased out by the 285 yet. I'm sure there will still be plenty dirt cheap R9 2xx cards floating around in retail store's inventories by the time AMD rolls out their R9 3xx cards. Hell, we might even get the 290 for under $225 and 290x for under $250 by then. This should cause some problems for Nvidia's lineup including the 960, 960ti and maybe even the 950ti since gamers not concerned about power consumption will be torn between an old high end AMD card or a new mid-range Nvidia card for the same price and similar or lesser performance.
From EVGA site, i came to know that first gen Maxwell cards only support Directx 11 feature set under Directx 12. So, will we see a Second Gen Maxwell version of GTX 750 Ti(probably named GTX 950 Ti), that is cheaper and cooler than GTX 960, but could take advantage of the whole Directx 12 features. Any idea?
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like a review is coming. I understand time has to be invested in the places that people will most read, but it seems like graphics card reviews get some of the highest comments. Ryan dropped the ball on this one. Don't say "coming soon" or "working on it this week" if it's not going to come out for over a month. Hopefully it's not a future indication of Anandtech's reviews on future graphics articles.
There are plenty of other sites you can check for reviews. No point in holding your breath waiting on Anandtech to post one nearly three months after the fact.
Unless you were trying to passively-aggressively needle them for not posting a review, in which case: good show!
Yes, other sites have done reviews, but I certainly would still like to see AT's take. Even now, months after launch, I would still appreciate AT's view, and have been regularly checking to see if it's up. There has been talk, including by the editor's, about how important it is to have an article up early to get those hits instead of a competitor. I like to think that AT is the sort of site that shouldn't matter as much, and that's BECAUSE of the level of detail and technical know how that comes to bear. If that has changed recently it's sad to see, and I can't help but reference Anand leaving (even I've thought this was a dead horse at various points).
If they had never said they would follow up with a review, that sucks but fine. Some update about why they couldn't or won't do a review would also be appreciated. If it's come to "well I guess I'l just go read the Toms Hardware or Guru3d review", then that is very telling of the state of this site.
I don't necessarily care about an actual review. But benchmarks would be good. There's a big gap in the bench database if a key card is not represented. I'm really disappointed that they still don't have any benchmarks. It's also not a good editorial policy to make promises you can't or won't deliver on.
It's the most used nVidia card, so it has to be marginalized at all costs. Burn the books and pretend it doesn't exist. They do this every time, I suppose the people don't get a choice. It's funny the card they ignore sells the best.
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Quad5Ny - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I guess Newegg didnt jump the gun by listing all those 960.Looking forward to your 960 review Ryan!
ORabbit - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Yeah, where can you buy one? I found the Asus Strix on Amazon, but that's it. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_89_2?fst=as%3A...znender - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
You can find them here on Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=107798680...
Or at Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Sub...
ORabbit - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Thanks. They weren't up yet at the time of posting.ORabbit - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I'm actually going for the 970 this time around. The 960 is a pass, even though it would still run circles around the 5770 I'm replacing!TheSlamma - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Good call, the 2GB on this thing is way outdated.hojnikb - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
not reallyFlunk - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Because the current gen consoles both have 8GB of unified memory, 2GB isn't going to be sufficient for very long. Realistically a PS4 or Xbox One could have a game that had 6GB of textures loaded up at once easily and we're going to see more of that in the future. Textures are not computationally complex and they have the RAM for it. You don't really want to be buying a new graphics card that will only last you one year.hojnikb - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Truthfully, consoles having 8GB of ram has little to do with desktop graphics. Yes, console ports could use more vram, but remember, not whole 8GBhojnikb - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
is dedicated for games, let alone GPU. I believe around 5GB is usable for games; that includes both GPU and CPU (reminder is used for OS).So, realisticly speaking, 2GB is plenty enough for GPU like 960 and for use with 1080p and lower.
jman9295 - Monday, January 26, 2015 - link
This is the same illogical thinking that other PC gamers have when making the argument for 8 core AMD CPUs vs a clearly superior quad core Intel CPU. The 8GB on a console is shared, not dedicated to the GPU. As long as the system has 8GB of RAM, a GPUwith 2GB of VRAM is going to be good enough for 1080p. Hell, if you look at some of the games that have already been released on these consoles and PCs like Watch Dogs, the 8GB of total system RAM on the consoles is actually a limiting factor compared to a PC with 8 or 16 GB of system RAM plus a 2, 3 or 4 GB GPU. This is one of the reasons these demanding multi-platform games run in lower resolutions like 900p on the PS4 and XB1 while they can run perfectly fine in 1080p on a PC with only a 2GB GPU.ORabbit - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I agree. I realized that I upgrade every 3 to 4 years. From a NVidia 8800 GT, to AMD 5770, and now GTX 970. I just don't see the 960 keeping up for the next 4 yrs when it already struggles with something like AC Unity today. Although I can't believe that 5770 is still keeping up, albeit barely.hojnikb - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Lets not make judgments with that heap of garbage of a game.Kutark - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I have yet to find a PC game where i couldn't run it at max settings with 8x anisotropic and 2-4x msaa (or whatever, mfaa, cant remember) and had any kind of memory issues. The "modern" consoles will NEVER use 6gb of memory for video stuff, the kind of computing requirements it would require to use that much graphics memory would be ridiculous. We're talking like 1440p+ with ridiculous texture settings, shadow settings, AA, etc etc. Far FAR past what the meager GPU in the consoles is capable of rendering.Basically to use that much graphics memory they'd have to load the GPU down so much it would turn into a slideshow. Just not gonna happen.
While i don't really disagree with you that 2gb isnt going to be sufficient for much longer, this is a mid level enthusiast card, its not a high end card, 2gb is plenty for what most people will be doing with it.
FITCamaro - Thursday, March 19, 2015 - link
The PS4 and Xbox One can only use about 5.5GB of memory for games. So I'd say that it's reasonable to think that around 4GB of textures could be loaded at a given time.eanazag - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I would have liked to see 3GB default for the video RAM. I'm guessing we'll see those. I suspect that this 2GB default is for the manufacturers to have more of a price range between 960 ($199) and 970 ($329). I'd suspect to see some OCed, 3GB 960's at $250.jay401 - Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - link
As is the 128-bit bus.reach3r - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
How exactly do GTX 960 and enthusiast fit into the same sentence?It seems to be a matter of definition. In my opinion and with most people I discuss graphics cards enthusiast is the stuff above high-end (think titan/295x2).
What is referred to as enthusiast here I would usually call upper mainstream/performance sector.
III-V - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Enthusiasts are simply people that take interest in hardware. It's not about money, and it's honestly a bit rude to think of it that way.inighthawki - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I'm sorry to hear you think it's rude, but you're sadly mistaken. The PC Enthusiast community is a specific class of people who buy the highest end available classes of hardware at premium prices. Enjoying computers and taking interest in hardware, or buying mid range hardware (even if brand new) does not make you an enthusiast.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthusiast_computing
"Enthusiast computing refers to a sub-culture of personal computer users who focus on extremely high-end computers. Manufacturers of performance-oriented parts typically include an enthusiast model in their offerings. Enthusiast computers (often referred to as a "box", "build", or "rig" by their owners) commonly feature extravagant cases[1] and high-end components, and are sometimes liquid cooled."
Flunk - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
There are three quality warnings on that page. Don't be an elitist, a PC enthusiast is just someone who is interested in computers as a hobby. There is no reason to leave people out of the "enthusiast" club.inighthawki - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Nobody is being elitist, and it's not a special club. Nobody is being "left out." It's simply a categorization. You can't change the definition just because you don't like it.And what on earth is a "quality warning?"
Kutark - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Wikipedia is updated by people. So some douche bag can go in and put something in wikipedia that has no basis in reality. People can flag it for review, etc. It generally means, "take anything on this page with a grain of salt, at best". It hasn't been peer reviewed for any accuracy, etc.Flunk - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
You don't get to decide who considers you an elitist.inighthawki - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
So, by using the definition of a hardware bracket correctly, you believe I am an elitist? I'm sorry if you feel that way, but you can't simply redefine a term because you feel left out from something that's not even special to be. Being a PC enthusiast has nothing to do with the enthusiast performance bracket of hardware. It's just called that. Being a PC enthusiast does not require owning enthusiast tier hardware. It's just a name.I don't understand why you guys are getting so offended and worked up about this. Do you think I'm saying you guys are not PC enthusiasts or something?
Kutark - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
No, you're sadly mistaken. An enthusiast is someone who is interested in a field more than the average person. People who pay $200 for gaphics cards are absolutely enthusiasts. No regular, run of the mill computer use is going to just slap a $200 graphics card in their system so they can watch youtube and upload photos to tumblr and shit.inighthawki - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
An enthusiast (noun) is someone interested in a field. Enthusiast (adj) hardware is a specific categorization of PC hardware referring to the highest end available stuff. It's been this way since forever ago. I do not know who came up with it or why, but that's what it refers to. It's not a special club that some small group of rich elite people don't want others in. It's just a phrase that refers to bleeding edge hardware. Nothing more.deruberhanyok - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
So you can't have "bleeding edge hardware" in a mainstream price range?Even if it's an entirely new GPU, based on new technology, with new features not available anywhere else (full hardware H265 acceleration)?
Sounds like an "enthusiast" part to me.
inighthawki - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Perhaps poor wording choice on my part. It is not used to describe the 'newness' of the part. Enthusiast grade hardware is used to define the highest performance sector. The 960 is considered one of NVidia's midrange or mainstream parts. Enthusiast hardware would consist of things like the Titan, or the 980, which are their high end parts.deruberhanyok - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Ah, I see. So if "enthusiast" hardware is only the really expensive stuff, only the people who can afford it are "enthusiasts". Right?inighthawki - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
No. Please read what I actually wrote, because that's not even close to what I said.An enthusiast is different from the term that was chosen to represent the bracket of high end hardware. Having an enthusiast grade GPU or not does not mean you are or are not a PC enthusiast. The term was likely coined a long time ago when having high end hardware actually did correlate to being a PC enthusiast, but this day and age it simply refers to the performance bracket, and nothing at all about the user themselves.
jman9295 - Monday, January 26, 2015 - link
I completely agree. The very first sentence, the definition of the term states that PC enthusiasts are "users who focus on extremely high-end computers." I also do not think that the 960 fits into this definition. The 960 and all GTX x60 parts before it have been clearly marketed and described as a "sweet spot" part by reviewers including this review. To me, sweet spot is the intersection of reasonable price and performance. You sacrifice some performance for a good price point. On the other hand, "enthusiast" is performance at all costs. This includes people who buy 6 or 8 core LGA 2011 CPUs and to them an i5 is low end. These people also buy 2 or 3 high end GPUs or multi-GPU cards like the 295x2 or Titan Z and only game in resolutions like 4k when everyone else is gaming in 1080p. If you look at Intel's CPU lineup, they even use the term "enthusiast" to describe their extreme series CPUs while the i7, i5 and i3s in the LGA 1150 class are considered "mainstream", the Pentium and Celeron are entry level or low end and the Xeons are workstation or server class. The same can be applied to GPUs.FlushedBubblyJock - Sunday, June 14, 2015 - link
Anyone who spends $200 on just a video card is an enthusiast.WithoutWeakness - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Enthusiasts can still be interested in bang-for-your-buck options. The person who spends weeks or months reading reviews and waiting for new parts and good deals to build a well-rounded $600 system can be just as much or even more of an enthusiast as the guy who drops $5000 on an X99 system and a few watercooled Titans.Intervenator - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
That makes potentially anyone at any price point an enthusiast. Which essentially makes the definition of enthusiast too broad to have any real meaning, especially when professional writers use it on one of the most prestigious tech sites.I have a feeling your definition, although not wrong, is a misinterpretation of the definition under the current context that is in question.
nevertell - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Being both a student and an enthusiast, I frown upon your elitist ideals about an enthusiast community. If I had the disposable income, I probably wouldn't be too interested in cards like these, but given the situation I am in at the moment, this is the 'sweetspot' card for me.ToTTenTranz - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Oh god here comes the political correctness police..Relax, it's just a category for budget levels.
No one is saying you're less of a "gamer" because you can't afford or simply don't want to spend $1000 on a graphics card. We just need to give different names to graphics aiming a different price levels.
low end < mid end < high end < top end or enthusiast
I can be a fan of enthusiast wristwatches and never in my life be able to afford an IWC.
Michael Bay - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Yes, let`s fault a guy over some imaginary political correctness bullshit just because he`s using common definition of a word instead of niche hijacked variation.Enthusiast means someone enthused over a given subject and not what your marketing zombie herder says.
Mentawl - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Funnily, when I see "Titan / 295x2" I think "more money than sense", so meh. You can be an enthusiast without having top of the line kit.chizow - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Disappointing there isn't a review Ryan, but hope everything is OK on your end.Pricing seems to be pretty good with this card given the performance. It'll be a no bells and whistles part at $200 for 1080p gaming, but that leaves a HUGE gap between the 970 and 960. Certainly leaves the door open for a cut down GM204 at some point for a 960Ti.
But honestly, anyone in the market here should really just extend their budget a bit and pick up something in the $300-$350 range (290/X, 970) for a much faster performing card.
Samus - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Ditto, look forward to the review and hope everything is well.I'm worried about that 128-bit bus...doesn't leave a lot of headroom for partner or end user optimizations. Seems like this is going to be bandwidth starved like the 750 was :\
meacupla - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
There's supposed to be a 960 Ti and faster 960 Ti, if that makes sense, according to some unnamed video card bench scores.Denithor - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
I'm guessing 960 Ti will be 192-bit + 3GB? And probably 3/4 of the hardware of the 970 versus the 1/2 this card has.khanov - Saturday, January 24, 2015 - link
I think you are right on the money there. Take a look at any 960 review that shows the card disassembled. The PCB of every card from whatever manufacturer has empty solder pads to accommodate two more ram chips (one each side of the board).This would allow for 3GB ram with a 192 bit interface. So 960ti very probably exists and will use the same PCB as 960. Perhaps using defective GM204's with one entire GPC disabled and some SMM's disabled in the remaining GPC's.
leliel - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Pretty much exactly what the rumors foretold. Whispers on the wind also spoke of o/cs up to 1.5GHz core, but even at stock clocks I imagine it's memory-limited.Not an utter knockout like the 970, but not a bad product. With GPU prices here being so terrible, this might be what I resort to when I get around to my next build.
just4U - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Not even close to a knockout as it's at best comparable to a Radeon 285 at similar price points. It hit's all the checkmarks of the 270X but really what's it bringing to the table? Not a must have card if you've got a 760/270/285/660ti .. have to go back further.. 500 series (NVidia) 5/6000 series (amd) to actually get bang for your buck.Shadowmaster625 - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Wow. $200 for a moba card? Are these guys really serious? I build entire moba boxes for $200. Using a $100 core 2 duo E8600 machine, a used intel X25-M, and a cheap video card that scores at least 700 on passmark. They run LoL just fine. A DX9 game usually flies even on a 500 point passmark card.Samus - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Honestly, the ~$100 750Ti is likely going to be a better value than the 960 for most gamers...unless the 960 comes down to the $150 level. From the reviews I've been looking at, the 750Ti is on the heels of the 960 in many DX9/DX10 games.smorebuds - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Who said it's a moba card? The one pic that has the moba reference just says "#1 GeForce GPU For MOBA Gamers", which in the context of the two pics it's sandwiched between is more of a statistic than opinion.Will Robinson - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
It makes sense for NV to have a good card at this price point.If it runs cool and quiet it's probably a decent buy.
rocktober13 - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I'm disappointed not to see any reference card designs. With HEVC support and low TDP, the 960 is perfect for my mini-ITX HTPC, but I think it needs to exhaust it's own heat in order to keep the rest of the components cool.Samus - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Hopefully someone just smacks a reference 750Ti cooler on it. Perfect ITX size and the cooler is probably capable of cooling a 120-watt TDP chip with some material and surface area tweaking.kwrzesien - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Check the gallery - it looks like MSI is selling a blower version.VeauX - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
For HTPC I was looking more into a low profile card. And it happens that the most recent performing one is the 750 ti... Hard to put a hand on though ... If a LP 660 comes out this would definitely be an appeal to meMrSpadge - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Ryan, when you do the full review can you poke nVidia whether the delta color compression also applies to GP-GPU loads?The reason I'm asking is that we see even GTX970, which has more bandwidth per shader than other Maxwells, to be severely limited by memory bandwidth under some BOINC projects. Einstein@Home runs at ~75% memory controller load and a well-configured SETI@Home at 100%. Both projects are looking for patterns in signals which contain mostly random noise, so there's probably nothing to compress.
Making things even worse for GM204 is that under GP-GPU load (CUDA or OpenCL) the card is only allowed to run at performance level P2, where the memory is clocked at 6.0 GHz instead of 7.0 GHz. Try it: run e.g. Heaven in windowed mode and everything is fine. Then launch a GP-GPU program (e.g. memtestCL) along with it and memory clock & p-state drop immediately. nVidia inspector can show this. It can also increase the memory clock under P2 (which other utilities can't), but it's cumbersome because the GPU must not be running any GP-GPU work for the changes to have any effect. Also P2 memory clock can't be set higher than P0, so you always have to adjust both.
Watch out for these errors (eh, "unwanted behaviour") on GM206!
Ktracho - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
When you run GPGPU applications, would you rather get fast results, or more assurance that your results are correct? Overclocking is not a friend of correctness, which is why NVIDIA's Tesla cards are never clocked as fast as their desktop graphics cards. In that sense, I think some gratefulness is warranted, in that if GM204 cards did not slow down when running GPGPU applications, but instead occasionally made mistakes in their calculations, then you'd have to go and manually slow down your card every time you wanted to run such applications.MrSpadge - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
I'm not talking about overclocking, I'm talking about reaching the stock memory clock. The one the chips are being sold for, and the clock which is being advertised. If this was a matter of calculation errors, neither company should be allowed to sell the products like this (and the gamers would see more graphics errors & artifacts). And some Keplers ran GP-GPU just fine with 7.0 GHz stock memory clocks.Ryan Smith - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Delta color compression does not apply to GPGPU workloads. It only applies to graphics worksloads.Parablooper - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Really interesting picture about the GTX -60 series! Didn't know it was so predominant.xrror - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
So my oldschool "get off my lawn" comment is as follows...The benches are in, and GTX 960 sucks for a $200 card. And honestly it follow the footsteps of the 750 750/ti that also sucked (but everyone blushed about how power efficient it was, meh).
Okay, so before you label me an nVidia troll, my anger isn't for the reasons you think.
nVidia has mastered the art of stopping people from overclocking via limiting TDP. Hard. This sucks.
You'll never see a 970 beat a 980, or 960 be decent because before you could ever overclock enough nVidia will yank you back.
The 750 and 750ti also were gimped like this.
So my anger is yea, welcome to the new age of hardware enforced market segmentation. IN THE OLD DAYS if the GTX 960 was released, it would have been more exciting to see what more daring OEMs and/or overclockers did with this "salvaged" GPU die. GTX 960 @ 2.0GHz+ would have been interesting, and at least worth your time to look at.
Like say, overclocked GTX760 cards were at least interesting (Also note now nVidia NEVER released the card everyone wanted - GTX760ti). But GTX 960? Not even OEMs can get anything fun out of it.
So yea, welcome to the new world of hardware enforced Market Segmentation. It's been coming for a while, and we've seen the dust on the horizon for a few years now - it just happens that the GTX 960 is the product that really epitomizes it for graphics cards.
Yea, Intel has done this for years now, but at least they throw us a bone. (Don't believe me? Try overclocking P43 chipset over 420mhz - and that's ancient history now. Intel knows how to limit clock in hardware, they've just not completely shut you out.... yet).
just4U - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
I don't really care so much about overclocking video cards. In my experience it definitely effects their longevity. Still the 960 isn't really what you'd expect. Has to be the most expensive 128bit card I've ever seen at $270 (CAD) with only 2G of memory .. it's one of the those things that makes you go hmm...headloser - Saturday, January 24, 2015 - link
Hi there,I have heard that Nvidia would release a Nvidia 960 Ti GTX version with a 192-bit memory bus. That is what i am waiting for. Would love to see a SLI result verse just a Nvidia 960 GTX with a 128-bit memory bus.
Plus i have read somewhere that Nvidia WILL NOT RELEASE A Nvidia 960 gtx with a 256-bit memory bus. The SLI Combo would have beaten the Nvidia 980 GTX card and Nvidia does not want that to happen.
Dark Man - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Winter 2015 GPU Pricing ComparisonYou mean "Spring" ?
Drumsticks - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Technically, winter didn't start until December 21st.Tams80 - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Spring doesn't start until March.Blueleader - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
I just want to know why the ROG Striker 760 and others are out of stock everywhere in the US???BuddyRich - Saturday, January 24, 2015 - link
Is Anandtech going to ask any questions about faulty 970 cards and their inability to allocate more than 3.5GB or so of their 4GB of RAM at once?Not saying there is a problem but its looking more and more like there is and Nvidia has only stated that they are "looking into it but that was a week ago...
FelixDraconis - Saturday, January 24, 2015 - link
Please make sure in the actual article you compare against the GeForce 750 and/or the TI variant. It is downright silly not to have it in the comparison chart.jman9295 - Monday, January 26, 2015 - link
50% improvement over the 660 on the same 28nm process is pretty impressive but not worth an upgrade to - for 1080p gamers. I used to own a couple 660s and I'd say that the next GTX x60, card made on the 20nm process, would be the time for 660 owners to begin to consider an upgrade. I wouldn't even call it the sweet spot right now. I think the extra $30 or so for a 280x would be well worth it even if you don't get all those useless over-hyped features like whatever that new AA is that is only used in like 4 games. And if you are on a budget, the real sweet spot is probably the 280. According to the last chart, the 280 is selling for $180 USD but I am looking at a few on Newegg right now for $165 after a rebate. Whenever the 280x comes out, I expect the prices on the 280 and 280x to drop even further. We know that AMD made a crap load of these GPUs thanks to litecoin miners last year and late 2013. This is why the 280 still hasn't been completely phased out by the 285 yet. I'm sure there will still be plenty dirt cheap R9 2xx cards floating around in retail store's inventories by the time AMD rolls out their R9 3xx cards. Hell, we might even get the 290 for under $225 and 290x for under $250 by then. This should cause some problems for Nvidia's lineup including the 960, 960ti and maybe even the 950ti since gamers not concerned about power consumption will be torn between an old high end AMD card or a new mid-range Nvidia card for the same price and similar or lesser performance.jman9295 - Monday, January 26, 2015 - link
*edit: Whenever the 380x comes out...mobutu - Friday, January 30, 2015 - link
So, a week has passed and still no review.What's going on over there?
Crunchy005 - Friday, January 30, 2015 - link
Ya I was disappointed also, no benchmarks or performance tests on this. I did find a review on toms hardware here:http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce...
funkforce - Wednesday, February 4, 2015 - link
It's almost two weeks now and still no review or info what has happened.Is Mr Smith alright? *worried*
VeauX - Wednesday, February 4, 2015 - link
Any news on when the full review will be posted?lokhor - Wednesday, February 4, 2015 - link
Hi, just wondering but is there a full review coming for this?mobutu - Tuesday, February 10, 2015 - link
3 weeks now ....r13j13r13 - Friday, February 13, 2015 - link
$230 R9 280X vs $200 GTX 960parthibanspace - Wednesday, February 25, 2015 - link
Would we possibly get a second gen refresh of GTX 750 Ti(probably named GTX 950 Ti)? If so, then I'll wait for it instead of going with GTX 750 Ti.parthibanspace - Wednesday, February 25, 2015 - link
From EVGA site, i came to know that first gen Maxwell cards only support Directx 11 feature set under Directx 12. So, will we see a Second Gen Maxwell version of GTX 750 Ti(probably named GTX 950 Ti), that is cheaper and cooler than GTX 960, but could take advantage of the whole Directx 12 features.Any idea?
technerdxy000 - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
So, is there a review coming??soccerharms - Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - link
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like a review is coming. I understand time has to be invested in the places that people will most read, but it seems like graphics card reviews get some of the highest comments. Ryan dropped the ball on this one. Don't say "coming soon" or "working on it this week" if it's not going to come out for over a month. Hopefully it's not a future indication of Anandtech's reviews on future graphics articles.Bobsy - Saturday, April 4, 2015 - link
It would be nice to know if no review will be done of this card. I am waiting to hear from Anandtech before making a purchase decision!deruberhanyok - Monday, April 6, 2015 - link
There are plenty of other sites you can check for reviews. No point in holding your breath waiting on Anandtech to post one nearly three months after the fact.Unless you were trying to passively-aggressively needle them for not posting a review, in which case: good show!
britjh22 - Thursday, April 23, 2015 - link
Yes, other sites have done reviews, but I certainly would still like to see AT's take. Even now, months after launch, I would still appreciate AT's view, and have been regularly checking to see if it's up. There has been talk, including by the editor's, about how important it is to have an article up early to get those hits instead of a competitor. I like to think that AT is the sort of site that shouldn't matter as much, and that's BECAUSE of the level of detail and technical know how that comes to bear. If that has changed recently it's sad to see, and I can't help but reference Anand leaving (even I've thought this was a dead horse at various points).If they had never said they would follow up with a review, that sucks but fine. Some update about why they couldn't or won't do a review would also be appreciated. If it's come to "well I guess I'l just go read the Toms Hardware or Guru3d review", then that is very telling of the state of this site.
ipkh - Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - link
I don't necessarily care about an actual review. But benchmarks would be good. There's a big gap in the bench database if a key card is not represented. I'm really disappointed that they still don't have any benchmarks. It's also not a good editorial policy to make promises you can't or won't deliver on.FlushedBubblyJock - Sunday, June 14, 2015 - link
It's the most used nVidia card, so it has to be marginalized at all costs.Burn the books and pretend it doesn't exist.
They do this every time, I suppose the people don't get a choice.
It's funny the card they ignore sells the best.
FlushedBubblyJock - Sunday, June 14, 2015 - link
It's funny enough the 960 has the highest discrete steam hardware survey use numbers.So it's like this place to avoid it as much as possible, it's a huge nVidia win so shhhhhhhhhhhhh.