the question is, is it worth spending close to $3000 on a laptop that
1. has 192W of heat dissipation on your lap (47W from CPU + 145W from the GPU if I am not wrong) 2. weighs 3.8kg (a dumbbell comes to mind) 3. has a high battery-power consumption driven by that kind (192W-kind) of a heat dissipation and the fan speeds needed to handle that 4. costs maybe 4 times as a desktop that gives you roughly the same performance (unless you really want the 1.5TB of space to store and play 30 games at the same time !!! )
There are always comments like this whenever a gaming notebook is reviewed. It's a niche market, stated several times in the article. There are people (like me, I'm an airline pilot) who travel a lot, or for whatever reason need what basically amounts to a portable desktop. I've pretty much never used one of these as a "lap" top. Does it make more sense for me to spend $1500 on a gaming desktop that I have access to half the time, or $2500 on something I can use every day? Is it expensive? Yes! Is it heavy? Yes!! Is it worth it? I think so. I know several people who game on lighter, cheaper notebooks with the settings turned way down, and others who have resorted to gaming on *shudder* tablets. That's not for me. I'll lug my $3000 dumbell into my hotel room and game away.
That being said, I'm strongly considering a Gigabyte P35X V3. It has a 980M and an IPS screen (with a 3K option available), but is a 15.6" machine weighing only 2.2kg. If the cooling isn't terrible (and early reports are that it gets the job done) I may just be able to have my cake and eat it too.
Also there are a lot of professionals who travel a great deal for work, but want to game. This kind of machine is ideal for that. Personally, I have one of these as a desktop replacement that I bring to and from work everyday. Sure it only gets 3 hours on battery power while all i'm doing is browsing the web, but that's enough for my longest meetings. Meanwhile I am able to have nearly desktop performance w/ additional flexibility.
Well said. What these laughable "comparison" posters also always inevitably forget about is the cost of peripherals. The laptop comes with a display, keyboard, touch interface device, and speakers, in addition to the 'hardware' that the naysayers are so pantie-bunching about.
To keep things in tune with this comment, comparing a laptop to a desktop is like comparing an airplane to a car. It just can't be done, and to attempt it is ludicrous.
Plus, however "big" people allege high end notebooks are, they're tiny and light compared with what, dragging a mini-tower and monitor and keyboard around?
Well said. I don't know why people always have to chime in with "It's so expensive!" Even saw a "review" of an Alienware 17 on Amazon that was just (in all caps, of course) THIS IS TO ESPENSIVE NO OEN NEED
Most of those points aren't even points. Yeah, it can use a lot of power (by notebook standards). So what? And yeah, it's heavier than lots of notebooks. So what? It's still plenty light enough to take with you.
I use an Alienware M17x-R4 (typing on it right now) and I LOVE that it gets me reasonable performance, and has cooling that lets me actually push it, whether with games, video encoding, or just having 90 bajillion programs open (or all three, as I'm doing right now LOL)
..you missed to add the ugliest part - the stone age screen with a resolution lower than on some 200$ 10" tablets!! They have a high quality 1440p IPS screens yet this thing somehow gets by with less?!? Disgusting, unacceptable atrocity
1080p is enough for 8" tablet, but it looks horrible on 17" laptop and 23" desktop.
When you actually browse and read Web pages after doing so on a high PPI screen that fact simply becomes glaringly obvious for anyone that isn't half blind.
Heck, I have an 1280x800 8" tablet, (170ppi) and compared to a iPad mini retina its lower resolution is strikingly obvious even when I hold it on my lap. Only when you get to compare low ppi with a high ppi you realize what a really highly defined image is. And on a $3000 laptop with the best GPU available, high definition screen should be an absolute must.
I find it baffling how some people can still deny that.
I think there's something of a point to crazy high resolution screens on tablets...namely for reading, whether books or magazines or graphic novels, it's nice to have it look more print-like when you're holding it up close. That's really the ONLY benefit to me though.
For a PC or game console, I think higher resolutions aren't as beneficial. I can't see pixels even on a 27" 1080p monitor from a few feet away, so who cares?
Plus of course PCs actually have the power to drive 1080p, which no tablet does when displaying anything more complex than a web browser or whatever.
These are childish arguments, literally. Adults often have to move or travel. If they need desktop-like performance, these kinds of systems are still incredibly portable compared to any alternative. I can fly with these systems. I can't with a desktop. My heavily overclocked Alienware M17X (IvyBridge i7 @ 4GHz, 680M OC'ed over 260MHz on the core) has been back and forth with me between Asia and the US constantly over the last 2+ years as well as back and forth from work every day. When it was new it offered upper-midrange desktop performance. It still offers midrange desktop performance today. It has been an incredible VALUE as a machine for both work and play. Trust me, I'd rather be on a desktop. I've gone through so many mental hoops to try and justify one, including small ITX's that might be able to fit in carry on luggage, etc. But realistically, these kinds of laptops are just so much better overall as a compromise.
Well, there's a reason they're called "Notebook" rather than "Laptop" haha. This costs x4 as much with one big reason being the x4 128GB ssds in RAID 0.
Anyone that travels even a little, a notebook is a no question investment. For me personally a desktop system would be useless. I wouldn't be able to use it more than 10% of the time I am able to use my laptop. Also, I can game in my bed. You can't beat that :)
Once you're going this route, I don't see why you wouldn't go for the "behemoth" dual-GPU notebooks... You can get the Alienware 18 fully loaded for between $3500-$4000 nowadays (but not from Dell), and it beats the pants off this one... and if you want a few weeks, I'm sure it will refresh to dual 980s...
Never understood why they put 8GB on a GPU attached to a 1080p display. Yet I can't buy a GTX 980 desktop card with 8GB which might actually be useful with a 4k monitor.
I agree that gaming laptops are not for everyone. For some of us, gaming laptop is beneficial due to, 1) Mobility. I have to say they are not light, but compared to desktops, they are definitely a better choice. 2) For me, it's also the ease of troubleshooting. If something is wrong with the laptop, I can send the laptop for servicing easier due to the great after sales service for my laptop. Understandably, it's pricey and may be inferior as oppose to their desktop counterparts, but they do exist for a limited market.
I'm also one of those niche users- having a modest home and 3 kids, I've been using a Clevo P170 for the last couple of years for my gaming and image editing and it serves me admirably. There could be ways and means of squeezing in a desktop system, but by the time you take the peripherals into account the laptop is by far the tidier option, and far easier to tuck away when it gets ignored for a week at a time. It's easily hooked to the TV and sound system with HDMI when they're in bed, too.
Great review, but as I'm running a 7970M and am genuinely interested in a 980m laptop it's a little disappointing that there are no AMD cards in the gaming test setup for comparison. I'll just have to do a bit of cross referencing!
Sadly, we haven't had a high-end AMD mobile GPU in for testing since the 7970M a couple years back, which was tested on an older gaming suite. You can check results in Bench, though: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1378?vs=833
Thanks for the link Jarred! I logged just in time to see you'd already done the work for me. Truly appreciated.
From what I can see the 980m would offer me anywhere from a 30% to over 100% boost in gaming, which is seriously impressive. I've always been a fan of bang for buck (thus the 7970m) but I have to say I'm seriously impressed with what Nvidia have achieved this generation, particularly considering we're still on 28nm here.
good review, this part is not right: "Second, the RAM has two SO-DIMM slots in the main area under the laptop, but there are two more that are accessed after removing the keyboard and top portion of the chassis; I didn't want to hassle with that as it's not really necessary for the review"
i have the 211 sku, and you cant remove the lid and the keyboard from the top on the gt72. To get to those ram slots you have to disassemble most of the laptop through the back cover on this model. should not be a big deal- the cheapest sku they offer comes with 16gb already populated into those slots. so the only people who will deal with those slots are people who want lower cas ram or people doing repairs if the ram goes bad.
Text edited, thanks. As noted, I didn't actually disassemble the system to check the battery and other RAM slots, so all I could say for certain was that they were on the opposite side of the motherboard.
as far as that second unused 2.5" bay- there is a sku (non usa sku as of today afaik) that comes with no SSD, so instead of a bracket to hold m.2 drives, there is a bracket that has connectors for both 2.5" bays- at least one is sata 6. this is sort of relevant because in the sku's that come with the m.2 bracket/ssd, there is no sata 3 port for a 2.5" drive.
Unfortunately, these things become expensive paper weights after 2 years. They just don't hold much of their value over time. You can probably get 80% of the performance of this laptop while spending only $1,500.00 or so.
Yes and no. A desktop with similar performance will cost between $1400 and $1500 (with 32GB RAM and a 512GB SSD), but that doesn't include the display, speakers, or keyboard/mouse... and what it really doesn't include is portability. No matter how much people want to try and say otherwise, there are users that want a portable gaming system like this. And in two years, while there will be faster GPUs available, that hardly makes an older system obsolete -- a three year old gaming notebook can easily handle most games today, just not at maximum settings.
Have MxM cards actually become available at sane prices? The last time I looked the premium on them was so large it was cheaper to dump the old laptop on ebay and buy a new one.
Also, is cooling still a concern with MxM swapping? IIRC something about early generation ones had problems with the heatsink connectors changing between generations making the upgrades nearly impossible in practice.
Pretty good gaming laptop all things considered. For the money, you get better hardware than what a comparable Alienware offers.
The only thing I wish for is that the battery was user replaceable. Gaming laptops don't have good battery life times, and this one is decent with the integrated, but still I'd like to be able to hot-swap on the go.
The are already IPS GT72s coming in, which should fix the only real flaw of this laptop, which is the poor color accuracy of the TN display. You will no doubt have to pay extra though for the IPS display.
I believe that the GPU can also be upgraded, leaving future potential upgrades available. Unfortunately, the CPU has been soldered, which has become standard among all gaming laptops.
Alienware gives you the same hardware....it's only the 980m that is different...and I'm sure it will be offered soon. Someone on the Alienware 18 owner's thread on a different forum has said it was late November...
Anyways, as I posted earlier, once you are going the gaming laptop route, I don't see the reason for going "half way"... Yes, the 18" laptops are heavier - but it's not like you're going to be taking this one with your everywhere either... they're both "portable desktops".
The Alienware 18, even with "only" dual 880m, will beat this laptop (and any other single GPU laptop) handily... the benchmarks Jarred included were from dual 780m... and they STILL beat the 980m! Alienware can give you an IPS screen and 4 SSDs (although I prefer 3 SSDs and a blu-ray drive myself) for just a bit more cash...
Lastly, I have to say that once you are in this price range, cost ceases to be a large factor. Yes, when buying a $500 laptop, an extra $200 is a big deal... But when buying a $3000+ laptop, a few hundred dollars no longer really matters...
We're not talking about a small difference in price here though. The Alienware 18 is a couple of thousand dollars more if you max it out. Price I'd argue still matters.
I have no doubt that the top end Alienware and Clevo laptops will beat this thing, especially if they are running 980M SLI (when that comes out). The top end Clevo probably will run a desktop grade CPU, so it's even more potent in this regard. I believe Clevo P570WM3 is the 6 core Ivy Bridge E model. Not sure if they are coming with a Haswell E laptop that can support 8 core Haswell though.
The only other benefit I can see is this thing can support 4x M.2. Not sure how many the Alienware 18 can support, although they are probably using 2.5" SATA 3 drives. It's not a huge advantage though, as M.2 is faster, but not something you'd notice for gaming.
Agree on the Blu-Ray drive.
@Jarred Walton Would it be possible to get the IPS GT72 tested out when it comes out? It should have a better quality screen overall.
If you don't mind refurbished, we're only talking about $200-$300.... and Alienware 18s have 1 M.2, and 3 SATA slots (some models give u 3 hard drives and an optical drive, others give all 4 hard drives).
As a point of pricing:
My Alienware 18 (purchased 2 months ago) has 32GB of RAM, dual 880m, and the i7 4940mx. I'm not a fan of RAID 0, so the "fast" M.2 is my boot drive (256gb) and the other 2 drives are 256gb sata SDDs... I replaced the DVD drive with a $50 Blu-Ray writer off of ebay (Panasonic UJ265)...
Cost: $3200 --> I've seen the same on ebay ranging from $3000 to $4000...
I ended up picking up one of these a few weeks ago, and it's a nice laptop. I went with the "budget" 980M version that only has a single SSD, and I purchased a separate 512GB SSD to use in non-RAID. It works great as I leave the original SSD for the OS and use the other one for more important games/applications. That's the same approach that I take on my desktop as well.
I also had the same problem with the bottom of the laptop. Honestly, I was afraid that I was going to break it! MSI uses a *ton* of tabs in addition to the screws to hold the bottom panel on, and it requires a bit of yanking to get it off. I also found it to be a bit more difficult than desired to put it back on.
I'm not the biggest fan of the trackpad though. I find that even at higher sensitivity, it just isn't all that sensitive and requires a lot more movement than some of my other laptops. The problem is that when making scrolling gestures and such, I really have to push down on it or else it doesn't register the gesture.
I was also pleasantly surprised by the Killer Wi-Fi card. I use Intel 7260-AC cards in my two NUCs, and honestly... they're downright awful. If they do connect, it will only last for a few days until it drops to unusable levels of performance, and I've never had one connect at full AC speed. My laptop connects to my router at full 2x AC speed.
As for the noise, I do wish that the laptop was a bit quieter during low usage, but I'm also the type that builds very quiet PCs. I highly doubt that any normal user would mind the noise.
I am a computer scientist, I just do not understand the design. 4x128GB RAID 0, seriously? The failure rate will be incredibly high with RAID0 of four storages of any kind, though they can get some speed up. I can understand gamers buy monsters, but I donot understand why they will pay for such stupid design.
Agree, 1st thing I'd do would be to RAID10 it; but every time someone at Anandtech or elsewhere sends a "RAID0, WTF!" email to a gaming laptop representative, the answer they get back is some version of "Our customers are demanding RAID0." Assuming their market research is valid, there're a lot of idiots buying gaming laptops with no clue beyond benchmark numbers. I'm somewhat skeptical though because you don't see the same thing in pre built gaming desktops. I suspect that what happened was that they went RAID0 in the HDD era to try and compensate for the crapitude of 2.5" HDDs; and haven't checked to see if it's still a valid customer requirement.
What surprises me is that they don't offer an alternative model with a single 2.5" SSD. The price premium on M.2 drives is high enough that they could still charge a large markup on it while being substantially less than the M.2 RAID0 model.
I know a few friends that have bought such machines in the past. The truth is they spend more time going back for repairs/fixes than actually on the users desk. More trouble than they are worth in the long run.
Radical overhaul: No. Incremental: Yes, at least part of the way. This years model has lost around 1 kg and is 0.8 cm slimmer, so there is that.
Subjectively it was already a pretty good design, so I for one am happy that they did not re-invent it completely, and settled for shaving off a couple of pounds.
Every time I see someone comparing a laptop to a desktop, I just want to slap my forehead at how mind-numbingly dense these people are.
if I wanted a desktop I would buy a desktop. However, I would like osmething with desktop-esque power that I can actually move around my house when the situation demands it, hell, something I can take on family holidays, or to a friends, etc etc etc.
Anyone who cannot see the point of that, or at least the basic concept behind it, seriously needs to go for an IQ test, and check that they reach the minimum levels required to use a computer.
Personally I just bought an ASUS G751 with 4GB 980M, beautiful IPS screen and a 4710HQ for $1980. All I need to do now is add an SSD for $200 and I then have an awesome and most importantly portable gaming machine that holds its own with the average high-end desktop PC.... for $2200.
IMO that is a hell of a good deal, and a worthwhile investment for the next few years. :)
This is the crux for me. I would get so very little enjoyment out of a desktop rig--because I'm always on the go.
Now for the cost ($3,000) this one is a little pricey for my blood--especially with the piss-poor 1080p screen (IPS or TN wouldn't matter, imho). I do think it's great that MSI has revamped their design...but case design is a very small factor for me. What I really need is high-performance, high-rez display, and just enough features to keep me from complaining.
I got my GT60 3k IPS edition back in January...and I STILL insit that it's one of the best gaming laptops in the market--if not THE best in the segment. 3k IPS screen, 16GB ram, 128 SSD for the oS & 1TB HDD, and a 780mGTX. And that's ~$2100 of laptop. $2200 even if you count switching to an intel Wi-Fi card--which I did after I got it. I could easily have configured it to $3,000 with most of the SSD/CPU upgrades from this one...but it would still have that IPS panel.
It's not a knock on MSI--it's an indictment of the market in general. I ordered mine the day it became available for widespread sale in the USA--THAT'S how long I'd been waiting for something better than 1080p in 15" size.
Guys, is there anyone who actually bought this machine and been using it for a while? I am seriously considering to buy either this particular model or the G751JY from ASUS.
I have been thoroughly searched the net, read blogs, reviews about both of them and to be honest after seeing what people experienced with the ASUS (buggy USB ports, black screen boots, dead pixels, faulty keyboard and their quality assurance in general) I am shitting bricks and afraid to go for one.
So, after all, I am about to buy a GT72 2QE with the very similar specifications, but before I invest ~2000 euros to a laptop that might serves me in the next let's say 2 years, I am about to ask you.
Is there anybody who has the same laptop? What are your observations? Have you experienced something erroneous, like recurrring black screen at start or any mechanical issues? And finally, what are your experiences with its good old TN panel?
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abianand - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
the question is, is it worth spending close to $3000 on a laptop that1. has 192W of heat dissipation on your lap (47W from CPU + 145W from the GPU if I am not wrong)
2. weighs 3.8kg (a dumbbell comes to mind)
3. has a high battery-power consumption driven by that kind (192W-kind) of a heat dissipation and the fan speeds needed to handle that
4. costs maybe 4 times as a desktop that gives you roughly the same performance (unless you really want the 1.5TB of space to store and play 30 games at the same time !!! )
daku123 - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
No :)nathanddrews - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
No, it's not. I'll take one.abianand - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
I correct myself, the GPU is 125W, not 145W.But the point still stands.
It's still a toaster running at 172W peak heat output.
zodiacsoulmate - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
when you are on battery it can only go up to 100W... all tests are on AC if they test it on battery FPS will drop half probably...Jer Stryker - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
There are always comments like this whenever a gaming notebook is reviewed. It's a niche market, stated several times in the article. There are people (like me, I'm an airline pilot) who travel a lot, or for whatever reason need what basically amounts to a portable desktop. I've pretty much never used one of these as a "lap" top. Does it make more sense for me to spend $1500 on a gaming desktop that I have access to half the time, or $2500 on something I can use every day? Is it expensive? Yes! Is it heavy? Yes!! Is it worth it? I think so. I know several people who game on lighter, cheaper notebooks with the settings turned way down, and others who have resorted to gaming on *shudder* tablets. That's not for me. I'll lug my $3000 dumbell into my hotel room and game away.That being said, I'm strongly considering a Gigabyte P35X V3. It has a 980M and an IPS screen (with a 3K option available), but is a 15.6" machine weighing only 2.2kg. If the cooling isn't terrible (and early reports are that it gets the job done) I may just be able to have my cake and eat it too.
jwhannell - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
Also there are a lot of professionals who travel a great deal for work, but want to game. This kind of machine is ideal for that. Personally, I have one of these as a desktop replacement that I bring to and from work everyday. Sure it only gets 3 hours on battery power while all i'm doing is browsing the web, but that's enough for my longest meetings. Meanwhile I am able to have nearly desktop performance w/ additional flexibility.MDX - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link
Well said. What these laughable "comparison" posters also always inevitably forget about is the cost of peripherals. The laptop comes with a display, keyboard, touch interface device, and speakers, in addition to the 'hardware' that the naysayers are so pantie-bunching about.To keep things in tune with this comment, comparing a laptop to a desktop is like comparing an airplane to a car. It just can't be done, and to attempt it is ludicrous.
Wolfpup - Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - link
Plus, however "big" people allege high end notebooks are, they're tiny and light compared with what, dragging a mini-tower and monitor and keyboard around?Wolfpup - Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - link
Well said. I don't know why people always have to chime in with "It's so expensive!" Even saw a "review" of an Alienware 17 on Amazon that was just (in all caps, of course) THIS IS TO ESPENSIVE NO OEN NEEDMost of those points aren't even points. Yeah, it can use a lot of power (by notebook standards). So what? And yeah, it's heavier than lots of notebooks. So what? It's still plenty light enough to take with you.
I use an Alienware M17x-R4 (typing on it right now) and I LOVE that it gets me reasonable performance, and has cooling that lets me actually push it, whether with games, video encoding, or just having 90 bajillion programs open (or all three, as I'm doing right now LOL)
darkich - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
..you missed to add the ugliest part - the stone age screen with a resolution lower than on some 200$ 10" tablets!!They have a high quality 1440p IPS screens yet this thing somehow gets by with less?!?
Disgusting, unacceptable atrocity
frozentundra123456 - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
So does that mean everyone that is using a 1080p desktop in a 23 or so inch size is also living with an "unacceptable atrocity"?Personally I think anything over 1080p on a tablet is basically for snob appeal.
darkich - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
Yes, such desktops are now also a big dated POS.1080p is enough for 8" tablet, but it looks horrible on 17" laptop and 23" desktop.
When you actually browse and read Web pages after doing so on a high PPI screen that fact simply becomes glaringly obvious for anyone that isn't half blind.
darkich - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
Heck, I have an 1280x800 8" tablet, (170ppi) and compared to a iPad mini retina its lower resolution is strikingly obvious even when I hold it on my lap.Only when you get to compare low ppi with a high ppi you realize what a really highly defined image is.
And on a $3000 laptop with the best GPU available, high definition screen should be an absolute must.
I find it baffling how some people can still deny that.
Wolfpup - Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - link
I think there's something of a point to crazy high resolution screens on tablets...namely for reading, whether books or magazines or graphic novels, it's nice to have it look more print-like when you're holding it up close. That's really the ONLY benefit to me though.For a PC or game console, I think higher resolutions aren't as beneficial. I can't see pixels even on a 27" 1080p monitor from a few feet away, so who cares?
Plus of course PCs actually have the power to drive 1080p, which no tablet does when displaying anything more complex than a web browser or whatever.
NA1NSXR - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
These are childish arguments, literally. Adults often have to move or travel. If they need desktop-like performance, these kinds of systems are still incredibly portable compared to any alternative. I can fly with these systems. I can't with a desktop. My heavily overclocked Alienware M17X (IvyBridge i7 @ 4GHz, 680M OC'ed over 260MHz on the core) has been back and forth with me between Asia and the US constantly over the last 2+ years as well as back and forth from work every day. When it was new it offered upper-midrange desktop performance. It still offers midrange desktop performance today. It has been an incredible VALUE as a machine for both work and play. Trust me, I'd rather be on a desktop. I've gone through so many mental hoops to try and justify one, including small ITX's that might be able to fit in carry on luggage, etc. But realistically, these kinds of laptops are just so much better overall as a compromise.ImKuya - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Well, there's a reason they're called "Notebook" rather than "Laptop" haha. This costs x4 as much with one big reason being the x4 128GB ssds in RAID 0.Braincruser - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Anyone that travels even a little, a notebook is a no question investment. For me personally a desktop system would be useless. I wouldn't be able to use it more than 10% of the time I am able to use my laptop.Also, I can game in my bed. You can't beat that :)
behrangsa - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link
You don't buy this notebook to put on your laptop in the same way you won't buy a trailer to go to office with everyday from home.But if you need a portable laptop with 32GB of RAM, all options are more or less like this.
MDX - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link
There is absolutely no way or reason to compare a laptop to a desktop. Move along.Samus - Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - link
nobody puts a 17" "laptop" on their lap. don't be tricked. this doesn't even call itself a laptop. it's a notebook/DTR and it goes on a table :)frodbonzi - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Once you're going this route, I don't see why you wouldn't go for the "behemoth" dual-GPU notebooks... You can get the Alienware 18 fully loaded for between $3500-$4000 nowadays (but not from Dell), and it beats the pants off this one... and if you want a few weeks, I'm sure it will refresh to dual 980s...frodbonzi - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
want = wait... terrible spelling...frodbonzi - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
And for thsoe who don't believe me...http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Alienware-18-i7-4940MX-32GB...
Azured - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
That's used. I'm sure they will update to the 980s soon, but I doubt you'll have much luck finding a used one right afterwards...frodbonzi - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link
Ebay... the great leveller... Dell sells refurbished ones pretty quickly... and they can be dramatically cheaper...ArthurG - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
small correction to the article, Gigabyte P35X V3 (15.6 FHD model) comes with 980M... the full glory 8GB GDDR5 version !DigitalFreak - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
Never understood why they put 8GB on a GPU attached to a 1080p display. Yet I can't buy a GTX 980 desktop card with 8GB which might actually be useful with a 4k monitor.watzupken - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
I agree that gaming laptops are not for everyone. For some of us, gaming laptop is beneficial due to,1) Mobility. I have to say they are not light, but compared to desktops, they are definitely a better choice.
2) For me, it's also the ease of troubleshooting. If something is wrong with the laptop, I can send the laptop for servicing easier due to the great after sales service for my laptop.
Understandably, it's pricey and may be inferior as oppose to their desktop counterparts, but they do exist for a limited market.
Spigsy - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
I'm also one of those niche users- having a modest home and 3 kids, I've been using a Clevo P170 for the last couple of years for my gaming and image editing and it serves me admirably. There could be ways and means of squeezing in a desktop system, but by the time you take the peripherals into account the laptop is by far the tidier option, and far easier to tuck away when it gets ignored for a week at a time. It's easily hooked to the TV and sound system with HDMI when they're in bed, too.Great review, but as I'm running a 7970M and am genuinely interested in a 980m laptop it's a little disappointing that there are no AMD cards in the gaming test setup for comparison. I'll just have to do a bit of cross referencing!
JarredWalton - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Sadly, we haven't had a high-end AMD mobile GPU in for testing since the 7970M a couple years back, which was tested on an older gaming suite. You can check results in Bench, though:http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1378?vs=833
Spigsy - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Thanks for the link Jarred! I logged just in time to see you'd already done the work for me. Truly appreciated.From what I can see the 980m would offer me anywhere from a 30% to over 100% boost in gaming, which is seriously impressive. I've always been a fan of bang for buck (thus the 7970m) but I have to say I'm seriously impressed with what Nvidia have achieved this generation, particularly considering we're still on 28nm here.
DILLIGAFF - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
good review, this part is not right:"Second, the RAM has two SO-DIMM slots in the main area under the laptop, but there are two more that are accessed after removing the keyboard and top portion of the chassis; I didn't want to hassle with that as it's not really necessary for the review"
i have the 211 sku, and you cant remove the lid and the keyboard from the top on the gt72. To get to those ram slots you have to disassemble most of the laptop through the back cover on this model. should not be a big deal- the cheapest sku they offer comes with 16gb already populated into those slots. so the only people who will deal with those slots are people who want lower cas ram or people doing repairs if the ram goes bad.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Text edited, thanks. As noted, I didn't actually disassemble the system to check the battery and other RAM slots, so all I could say for certain was that they were on the opposite side of the motherboard.DILLIGAFF - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Thanks dude!as far as that second unused 2.5" bay- there is a sku (non usa sku as of today afaik) that comes with no SSD, so instead of a bracket to hold m.2 drives, there is a bracket that has connectors for both 2.5" bays- at least one is sata 6. this is sort of relevant because in the sku's that come with the m.2 bracket/ssd, there is no sata 3 port for a 2.5" drive.
RaistlinZ - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Unfortunately, these things become expensive paper weights after 2 years. They just don't hold much of their value over time. You can probably get 80% of the performance of this laptop while spending only $1,500.00 or so.JarredWalton - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Yes and no. A desktop with similar performance will cost between $1400 and $1500 (with 32GB RAM and a 512GB SSD), but that doesn't include the display, speakers, or keyboard/mouse... and what it really doesn't include is portability. No matter how much people want to try and say otherwise, there are users that want a portable gaming system like this. And in two years, while there will be faster GPUs available, that hardly makes an older system obsolete -- a three year old gaming notebook can easily handle most games today, just not at maximum settings.CrazyElf - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
One advantage that this laptop has is that the GPU is upgradeable.Asus G series is not. Alienware, some models are. Many of the Clevo models are.
CPUs don't seem to improve much every year, so it's not as big a deal.
DanNeely - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Have MxM cards actually become available at sane prices? The last time I looked the premium on them was so large it was cheaper to dump the old laptop on ebay and buy a new one.Also, is cooling still a concern with MxM swapping? IIRC something about early generation ones had problems with the heatsink connectors changing between generations making the upgrades nearly impossible in practice.
CrazyElf - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Pretty good gaming laptop all things considered. For the money, you get better hardware than what a comparable Alienware offers.The only thing I wish for is that the battery was user replaceable. Gaming laptops don't have good battery life times, and this one is decent with the integrated, but still I'd like to be able to hot-swap on the go.
The are already IPS GT72s coming in, which should fix the only real flaw of this laptop, which is the poor color accuracy of the TN display. You will no doubt have to pay extra though for the IPS display.
I believe that the GPU can also be upgraded, leaving future potential upgrades available. Unfortunately, the CPU has been soldered, which has become standard among all gaming laptops.
Otherwise a solid laptop.
frodbonzi - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Alienware gives you the same hardware....it's only the 980m that is different...and I'm sure it will be offered soon. Someone on the Alienware 18 owner's thread on a different forum has said it was late November...Anyways, as I posted earlier, once you are going the gaming laptop route, I don't see the reason for going "half way"... Yes, the 18" laptops are heavier - but it's not like you're going to be taking this one with your everywhere either... they're both "portable desktops".
The Alienware 18, even with "only" dual 880m, will beat this laptop (and any other single GPU laptop) handily... the benchmarks Jarred included were from dual 780m... and they STILL beat the 980m! Alienware can give you an IPS screen and 4 SSDs (although I prefer 3 SSDs and a blu-ray drive myself) for just a bit more cash...
Lastly, I have to say that once you are in this price range, cost ceases to be a large factor. Yes, when buying a $500 laptop, an extra $200 is a big deal... But when buying a $3000+ laptop, a few hundred dollars no longer really matters...
CrazyElf - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
We're not talking about a small difference in price here though. The Alienware 18 is a couple of thousand dollars more if you max it out. Price I'd argue still matters.I have no doubt that the top end Alienware and Clevo laptops will beat this thing, especially if they are running 980M SLI (when that comes out). The top end Clevo probably will run a desktop grade CPU, so it's even more potent in this regard. I believe Clevo P570WM3 is the 6 core Ivy Bridge E model. Not sure if they are coming with a Haswell E laptop that can support 8 core Haswell though.
The only other benefit I can see is this thing can support 4x M.2. Not sure how many the Alienware 18 can support, although they are probably using 2.5" SATA 3 drives. It's not a huge advantage though, as M.2 is faster, but not something you'd notice for gaming.
Agree on the Blu-Ray drive.
@Jarred Walton
Would it be possible to get the IPS GT72 tested out when it comes out? It should have a better quality screen overall.
frodbonzi - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link
If you don't mind refurbished, we're only talking about $200-$300.... and Alienware 18s have 1 M.2, and 3 SATA slots (some models give u 3 hard drives and an optical drive, others give all 4 hard drives).As a point of pricing:
My Alienware 18 (purchased 2 months ago) has 32GB of RAM, dual 880m, and the i7 4940mx. I'm not a fan of RAID 0, so the "fast" M.2 is my boot drive (256gb) and the other 2 drives are 256gb sata SDDs... I replaced the DVD drive with a $50 Blu-Ray writer off of ebay (Panasonic UJ265)...
Cost: $3200 --> I've seen the same on ebay ranging from $3000 to $4000...
Aikouka - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
I ended up picking up one of these a few weeks ago, and it's a nice laptop. I went with the "budget" 980M version that only has a single SSD, and I purchased a separate 512GB SSD to use in non-RAID. It works great as I leave the original SSD for the OS and use the other one for more important games/applications. That's the same approach that I take on my desktop as well.I also had the same problem with the bottom of the laptop. Honestly, I was afraid that I was going to break it! MSI uses a *ton* of tabs in addition to the screws to hold the bottom panel on, and it requires a bit of yanking to get it off. I also found it to be a bit more difficult than desired to put it back on.
I'm not the biggest fan of the trackpad though. I find that even at higher sensitivity, it just isn't all that sensitive and requires a lot more movement than some of my other laptops. The problem is that when making scrolling gestures and such, I really have to push down on it or else it doesn't register the gesture.
I was also pleasantly surprised by the Killer Wi-Fi card. I use Intel 7260-AC cards in my two NUCs, and honestly... they're downright awful. If they do connect, it will only last for a few days until it drops to unusable levels of performance, and I've never had one connect at full AC speed. My laptop connects to my router at full 2x AC speed.
As for the noise, I do wish that the laptop was a bit quieter during low usage, but I'm also the type that builds very quiet PCs. I highly doubt that any normal user would mind the noise.
jabber - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Nice hardware...shame it looks like a tacky toy.utferris - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
I am a computer scientist, I just do not understand the design.4x128GB RAID 0, seriously? The failure rate will be incredibly high with RAID0 of four storages of any kind, though they can get some speed up.
I can understand gamers buy monsters, but I donot understand why they will pay for such stupid design.
DanNeely - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
Agree, 1st thing I'd do would be to RAID10 it; but every time someone at Anandtech or elsewhere sends a "RAID0, WTF!" email to a gaming laptop representative, the answer they get back is some version of "Our customers are demanding RAID0." Assuming their market research is valid, there're a lot of idiots buying gaming laptops with no clue beyond benchmark numbers. I'm somewhat skeptical though because you don't see the same thing in pre built gaming desktops. I suspect that what happened was that they went RAID0 in the HDD era to try and compensate for the crapitude of 2.5" HDDs; and haven't checked to see if it's still a valid customer requirement.What surprises me is that they don't offer an alternative model with a single 2.5" SSD. The price premium on M.2 drives is high enough that they could still charge a large markup on it while being substantially less than the M.2 RAID0 model.
jabber - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
I know a few friends that have bought such machines in the past. The truth is they spend more time going back for repairs/fixes than actually on the users desk. More trouble than they are worth in the long run.IgenIgen - Tuesday, November 11, 2014 - link
The new ASUS G751JT/JY actually use a redesigned chassis compared to the G750. It also comes with an IPS display as standard (at least in Europe).JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
Is it a radical overhaul of the design, or just incremental tweaks of the previous iterations of the G7xx series? Judging by images, it's the latter:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Compared that with the GT70 vs. GT72 and it's a massive change. That's what I'm trying to get at.
IgenIgen - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link
Radical overhaul: No. Incremental: Yes, at least part of the way. This years model has lost around 1 kg and is 0.8 cm slimmer, so there is that.Subjectively it was already a pretty good design, so I for one am happy that they did not re-invent it completely, and settled for shaving off a couple of pounds.
My point with the IPS panel still stands.
dwade123 - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
Quite stupid to pay that much just to sign petition for console ports.imaheadcase - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - link
Does something like this exist in non laptop form you can plug just monitor/kb/mouse into and works?I've yet to see someone offer a SFF case that has all that stuff in it, minus monitor/kb/mouse.
Richdog - Wednesday, November 19, 2014 - link
Every time I see someone comparing a laptop to a desktop, I just want to slap my forehead at how mind-numbingly dense these people are.if I wanted a desktop I would buy a desktop. However, I would like osmething with desktop-esque power that I can actually move around my house when the situation demands it, hell, something I can take on family holidays, or to a friends, etc etc etc.
Anyone who cannot see the point of that, or at least the basic concept behind it, seriously needs to go for an IQ test, and check that they reach the minimum levels required to use a computer.
Personally I just bought an ASUS G751 with 4GB 980M, beautiful IPS screen and a 4710HQ for $1980. All I need to do now is add an SSD for $200 and I then have an awesome and most importantly portable gaming machine that holds its own with the average high-end desktop PC.... for $2200.
IMO that is a hell of a good deal, and a worthwhile investment for the next few years. :)
inperfectdarkness - Monday, December 1, 2014 - link
This is the crux for me. I would get so very little enjoyment out of a desktop rig--because I'm always on the go.Now for the cost ($3,000) this one is a little pricey for my blood--especially with the piss-poor 1080p screen (IPS or TN wouldn't matter, imho). I do think it's great that MSI has revamped their design...but case design is a very small factor for me. What I really need is high-performance, high-rez display, and just enough features to keep me from complaining.
I got my GT60 3k IPS edition back in January...and I STILL insit that it's one of the best gaming laptops in the market--if not THE best in the segment. 3k IPS screen, 16GB ram, 128 SSD for the oS & 1TB HDD, and a 780mGTX. And that's ~$2100 of laptop. $2200 even if you count switching to an intel Wi-Fi card--which I did after I got it. I could easily have configured it to $3,000 with most of the SSD/CPU upgrades from this one...but it would still have that IPS panel.
It's not a knock on MSI--it's an indictment of the market in general. I ordered mine the day it became available for widespread sale in the USA--THAT'S how long I'd been waiting for something better than 1080p in 15" size.
russblevins76 - Monday, December 22, 2014 - link
Think I searched this old email.[email protected] or rcblevins56milan666 - Sunday, April 19, 2015 - link
Guys, is there anyone who actually bought this machine and been using it for a while? I am seriously considering to buy either this particular model or the G751JY from ASUS.I have been thoroughly searched the net, read blogs, reviews about both of them and to be honest after seeing what people experienced with the ASUS (buggy USB ports, black screen boots, dead pixels, faulty keyboard and their quality assurance in general) I am shitting bricks and afraid to go for one.
So, after all, I am about to buy a GT72 2QE with the very similar specifications, but before I invest ~2000 euros to a laptop that might serves me in the next let's say 2 years, I am about to ask you.
Is there anybody who has the same laptop? What are your observations? Have you experienced something erroneous, like recurrring black screen at start or any mechanical issues? And finally, what are your experiences with its good old TN panel?
Many thanks in advance, have a great day!
Cheers,
M