Good article - it's great to see Surface making some kind of money now. In any case, it's infinitely better than the 900 million write off once upon a time. It seems like they've finally found their niche, and it'd be awesome if they'd just release an Atom based Surface 3 at $5-600. I imagine they'd sell a ton more.
But - no mention to the $1bil rin restructuring? That's the main reason profit was down.
Also, 9.3 million Lumias sold last quarter seems like good news to me. That plus the host of OEMs now selling Windows Phone means we might just see Windows Phone claw its way to 5% within the next year or two (worldwide that is)
Yeah, a smaller, cheaper Atom Surface seems interesting. Don't know if the Asus T100 is selling well, but it's maybe the most interesting cheap Win8 computer right now; a small Surface could be a Microsoft-y take on that. (Hope misguided dedication to WinRT doesn't keep 'em from doing it.)
So what? The Surface is competing as much with the iPad as anything else, and those perform on par with the 1.4GHz Core i5 powering the lowest powered laptops right now.
Now that Bay Trail's out, "Atom" just means it's not a laptop or desktop chip; low-power Celerons and Pentiums use the same architecture. High-end Atoms can hold their own next to low-end Pentiums.
Microsoft's surface tablets have amazing build quality. If I could get an atom tablet + detachable keyboard for $400-450 I would definitely jump. A competitor priced and featured similarly to the T100 (with a better screen) with MS support and build quality would be one I'd buy in a second.
Count me in too. If they could make a 64GB Atom version with the type cover for $500 it would be a pretty bitchin' little combo device (mostly tiny laptop and not awesome tablet due to ecosystem). I'd pay the extra 25% for the build quality and a better screen.
My wife actually wanted a SP3 to replace an old Macbook. So even if they don't make a cheap version, we'll probably end up with a Core-M SP4 (assuming such a thing gets built).
I very much prefer 16:9 on my Nexus 7 but I think 4:3 makes ALL the sense in the world for a device that's gonna see lots of productivity use in landscape mode. That was like the one key thing that made Surface Pro 3 a whole lot more appealing IMO, it's small but you don't lose much work space compared to a 13" laptop.
A 10" 4:3 Atom would skew a little more towards tablet first but I think it'd still be a great compromise. If they make it no more than $600 with keyboard and Office I don't see how it couldn't succeed. Their current Surface Pro ads do a good job of showcasing what it can do that a regular laptop can't, image ads comparing this theoretical Atom Surface to $500+ Android/iOS tablets...
Ditto, I don't NEED a laptop, and my cheaper Android tablet suffices for most basic consumption tasks... But I'd love to have a small but capable x86 system like that. I like SP3, can't justify the price for my needs tho, but I think the 4:3 aspect ratio makes a ton of sense for hybrid productivity devices.
Agreed on all fronts, SP3 won me over and finally got me to fork out the dough, but once you've seen all the sub-$600 pretenders (including iPad) and want something more, it becomes obvious Surface Pro is the only real choice. Pro 4 or whatever uses Core M will be an even bigger hit as it should decrease thickeness and/or increase battery life further.
Also agree on the Atom-based Surface line. Time to kill the ARM/RT experiment and go with Atom at that price point, would fly off the shelves with Surface build quality at that price point.
I just don't understand why they're still trying to push RT, what's the upshot? Current Atoms are perfectly capable compared to ARM equivalents, they already shot the volley across Intel's bow and put them on notice, Intel knows it can't keep sandbagging Atom... Time to reward them and capitalize on a market demand IMO.
A $500 x86 Surface would stomp all over any $500 Android/iPod tablet for anyone whose needs extend beyond the bare basics... I love my Nexus 7 for what it is but Android/iOS just can't justify their value at larger sizes and price points, but there's no flagship device out there that makes that obvious.
@Drumsticks "it's great to see Surface making some kind of money now." What are you talking about?? Surface is still a drag on the company? It's not at ALL making money. Microsoft still loses money on each Surface sold.
The results for the company as a whole was really good driven by cloud, software, etc... but NOT at all hardware: Surface & Nokia/phones.
Their revenue from Surface line is almost $1bn. Compare to Apple's all Mac sales of $5.5bn, where MBA (unknown number) is the direct competitor. So ... all of sudden within one year, the Surface is direct contender to MBA, despite being sold only on selected markets and with weak advertising/marketing. Hard to call this something else, but great success.
I agree that if MS release a $600 Surface based on Silvermont with 8GB RAM and 128GB Nand flash, it will sell very well compared to the Android and IOS tablets out there. It does not have to be light and thin. It can be a bit chunky design but with a good IPS screen and decent battery life including full ports compliment (microCD plus SD slot), USB3 and microHDMI. Key is functionality plus expandability. Users have no problems carrying a USB disk and a PowerBank to make this last 15 hours or so.
Color me impressed with the surface #s, since I thought (to my chagrin) the whole thing was more or less flopping. Suppose that's still nothing like iPad sales, but it sounds like a sustainable business. If Windows 10 fixes some stuff people don't like, and with Broadwell supposed to make for lighter, nicer high-end tablets than Haswell, could see some neat stuff there next year.
It's not so much that it was flopping; they were experimenting so that they could find out what works and was was required. They ended up throwing almost all of it away. The bluetooth adapter for the covers, the first dock, the music cover, the touch covers, the power cover, the RT line. All there is now is the main Surface Pro line in a new size with Type Covers and a dock. They'll probably reintroduce the Surface Mini, but that's another topic.
I expect them to keep the line fairly slim from now on.
Yep, we are starting to buy them at work too. I would say the i3 model is probably competing with high-end iPads and the i5 model is right in the MBA air, with the i7 models tempting 13-inch MBP and ultrabook users.
With some of the student/professional discounts MS was offering it's no surprise these sold well.
Ars is reporting that MS also sold 40m non-Lumia phones. With dumb phone sales still that big in the poorest parts of the world, I can't understand why they weren't able to find someone willing to buy that part of Nokia off of them instead of shuttering in.
It's a declining industry; smartphones are increasingly pushing into that price range. My guess is that they may be retaining the ultra low end feature phones whilst continuing to push WP into the price range that Asha (and Nokia X) previously occupied, resulting in the closure of the Asha and Nokia X R&D and manufacturing facilities.
Microsoft looks poised to overtake Exxon's market cap. By next year we'll probably have two tech companies at the top of the biggest corporations list, with Google making it a trio in another 3-5 years.
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Drumsticks - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Good article - it's great to see Surface making some kind of money now. In any case, it's infinitely better than the 900 million write off once upon a time. It seems like they've finally found their niche, and it'd be awesome if they'd just release an Atom based Surface 3 at $5-600. I imagine they'd sell a ton more.But - no mention to the $1bil rin restructuring? That's the main reason profit was down.
Also, 9.3 million Lumias sold last quarter seems like good news to me. That plus the host of OEMs now selling Windows Phone means we might just see Windows Phone claw its way to 5% within the next year or two (worldwide that is)
twotwotwo - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Yeah, a smaller, cheaper Atom Surface seems interesting. Don't know if the Asus T100 is selling well, but it's maybe the most interesting cheap Win8 computer right now; a small Surface could be a Microsoft-y take on that. (Hope misguided dedication to WinRT doesn't keep 'em from doing it.)Krysto - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
Let's put things in perspective. Atom laptops have half the performance of Celeron laptops.michael2k - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
So what? The Surface is competing as much with the iPad as anything else, and those perform on par with the 1.4GHz Core i5 powering the lowest powered laptops right now.GatesDA - Saturday, October 25, 2014 - link
Now that Bay Trail's out, "Atom" just means it's not a laptop or desktop chip; low-power Celerons and Pentiums use the same architecture. High-end Atoms can hold their own next to low-end Pentiums.twotwotwo - Monday, October 27, 2014 - link
It's true, but if Atom competes well with other tablet processors and handles basic tasks well, seems not unlikely it has a niche anyway.whyso - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Microsoft's surface tablets have amazing build quality. If I could get an atom tablet + detachable keyboard for $400-450 I would definitely jump. A competitor priced and featured similarly to the T100 (with a better screen) with MS support and build quality would be one I'd buy in a second.Bob Todd - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Count me in too. If they could make a 64GB Atom version with the type cover for $500 it would be a pretty bitchin' little combo device (mostly tiny laptop and not awesome tablet due to ecosystem). I'd pay the extra 25% for the build quality and a better screen.My wife actually wanted a SP3 to replace an old Macbook. So even if they don't make a cheap version, we'll probably end up with a Core-M SP4 (assuming such a thing gets built).
Thermogenic - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
The early reviews of the Yoga Pro 3 have me casting a very suspicious eye at the Core-M.andrewaggb - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
Agreed. I'd love a 10" and 12.5" surface options with an atom and a 5:4 or 4:3 aspect ratio for $400-$600 (or less but I doubt that would happen)The T100 looks super cheap and has a crappy screen... and pretty much everybody else went with 16:9 screens, which I personally don't like on tablets.
Impulses - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
I very much prefer 16:9 on my Nexus 7 but I think 4:3 makes ALL the sense in the world for a device that's gonna see lots of productivity use in landscape mode. That was like the one key thing that made Surface Pro 3 a whole lot more appealing IMO, it's small but you don't lose much work space compared to a 13" laptop.A 10" 4:3 Atom would skew a little more towards tablet first but I think it'd still be a great compromise. If they make it no more than $600 with keyboard and Office I don't see how it couldn't succeed. Their current Surface Pro ads do a good job of showcasing what it can do that a regular laptop can't, image ads comparing this theoretical Atom Surface to $500+ Android/iOS tablets...
tpy - Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - link
Nexus 7 is 16:10 not 16:9. Surface Pro 3 is 3:2 not 4:3.Impulses - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
Ditto, I don't NEED a laptop, and my cheaper Android tablet suffices for most basic consumption tasks... But I'd love to have a small but capable x86 system like that. I like SP3, can't justify the price for my needs tho, but I think the 4:3 aspect ratio makes a ton of sense for hybrid productivity devices.chizow - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Agreed on all fronts, SP3 won me over and finally got me to fork out the dough, but once you've seen all the sub-$600 pretenders (including iPad) and want something more, it becomes obvious Surface Pro is the only real choice. Pro 4 or whatever uses Core M will be an even bigger hit as it should decrease thickeness and/or increase battery life further.Also agree on the Atom-based Surface line. Time to kill the ARM/RT experiment and go with Atom at that price point, would fly off the shelves with Surface build quality at that price point.
Impulses - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
I just don't understand why they're still trying to push RT, what's the upshot? Current Atoms are perfectly capable compared to ARM equivalents, they already shot the volley across Intel's bow and put them on notice, Intel knows it can't keep sandbagging Atom... Time to reward them and capitalize on a market demand IMO.A $500 x86 Surface would stomp all over any $500 Android/iPod tablet for anyone whose needs extend beyond the bare basics... I love my Nexus 7 for what it is but Android/iOS just can't justify their value at larger sizes and price points, but there's no flagship device out there that makes that obvious.
tempdownload - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
@Drumsticks "it's great to see Surface making some kind of money now."What are you talking about??
Surface is still a drag on the company? It's not at ALL making money.
Microsoft still loses money on each Surface sold.
The results for the company as a whole was really good driven by cloud, software, etc... but NOT at all hardware: Surface & Nokia/phones.
michael2k - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
Um, according to Microsoft, Surface is in fact making money. So where is your data?ppi - Tuesday, October 28, 2014 - link
Their revenue from Surface line is almost $1bn. Compare to Apple's all Mac sales of $5.5bn, where MBA (unknown number) is the direct competitor.So ... all of sudden within one year, the Surface is direct contender to MBA, despite being sold only on selected markets and with weak advertising/marketing. Hard to call this something else, but great success.
fteoath64 - Sunday, October 26, 2014 - link
I agree that if MS release a $600 Surface based on Silvermont with 8GB RAM and 128GB Nand flash, it will sell very well compared to the Android and IOS tablets out there. It does not have to be light and thin. It can be a bit chunky design but with a good IPS screen and decent battery life including full ports compliment (microCD plus SD slot), USB3 and microHDMI. Key is functionality plus expandability. Users have no problems carrying a USB disk and a PowerBank to make this last 15 hours or so.twotwotwo - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Color me impressed with the surface #s, since I thought (to my chagrin) the whole thing was more or less flopping. Suppose that's still nothing like iPad sales, but it sounds like a sustainable business. If Windows 10 fixes some stuff people don't like, and with Broadwell supposed to make for lighter, nicer high-end tablets than Haswell, could see some neat stuff there next year.mkozakewich - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
It's not so much that it was flopping; they were experimenting so that they could find out what works and was was required. They ended up throwing almost all of it away. The bluetooth adapter for the covers, the first dock, the music cover, the touch covers, the power cover, the RT line. All there is now is the main Surface Pro line in a new size with Type Covers and a dock. They'll probably reintroduce the Surface Mini, but that's another topic.I expect them to keep the line fairly slim from now on.
III-V - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Surface Pro 3s have been flying off the shelves at work. Microsoft definitely struck a chord with consumers.Maybe I should ask which models are selling best, next time I go in.
chizow - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Yep, we are starting to buy them at work too. I would say the i3 model is probably competing with high-end iPads and the i5 model is right in the MBA air, with the i7 models tempting 13-inch MBP and ultrabook users.With some of the student/professional discounts MS was offering it's no surprise these sold well.
diddlydoo - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
The fall in profits reflected a $1.14bn restructuring charge to cover an overhaul of the Nokia mobile phone operations.diddlydoo - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
(The restructuring charge is a one time charge. Wall St analysts add it back to calculate the going forward 'earnings power' of the company)DanNeely - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Ars is reporting that MS also sold 40m non-Lumia phones. With dumb phone sales still that big in the poorest parts of the world, I can't understand why they weren't able to find someone willing to buy that part of Nokia off of them instead of shuttering in.Krinosy - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
It's a declining industry; smartphones are increasingly pushing into that price range. My guess is that they may be retaining the ultra low end feature phones whilst continuing to push WP into the price range that Asha (and Nokia X) previously occupied, resulting in the closure of the Asha and Nokia X R&D and manufacturing facilities.tralalalalalala40 - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Is the surface pro 3 the only tablet with a fan?sorten - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
No. Any tablet with a TDP > 7 or 8 watts has a fan.zefyr - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
It's not 2015 yet. it can't be past tense.TormDK - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
It is in the Microsoft World, since their fiscal period does not follow the calender year.We are in Q2 of FY15, not Q3 CY14 :)
JimmaDaRustla - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_yearJlHADJOE - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
Microsoft looks poised to overtake Exxon's market cap. By next year we'll probably have two tech companies at the top of the biggest corporations list, with Google making it a trio in another 3-5 years.