840 EVO in my wife's Mac. MX100 in my gaming rig. I know it makes sense from Samsung's perspective to drop this for Windows initially, but I can't get past that depressed feeling of knowing I can't fix her drive for a few more weeks. Maybe I'll just install the new firmware, wipe the drive, and do a Time Machine backup so I can get this over with.
Also, kudos to Samsung for fixing this. It makes me so happy when a manufacturer listens to their costumers instead of pretending the problem doesn't exist.
Samsung had to have already known about this bug and has clearly been working on a fix for many months. They didn't just read a forum post one day in september and then turn around and put out a firmware and software fix in a month's time. Validation alone takes far longer than that, nevermind creating the firmware and software to reprogram the drive.
Samsung is not a hero, they're a for profit business doing a cost benefit analysis on every unforeseen event that comes their way. In this case, the benefit outweigh the cost of fixing the problem. Spare your gratitude.
I've seen posts on the web about this going back as far as mid August, and I wouldn't be surprised it this was talked about online prior to that. I have no problem believing that they could have corrected this issue in that timeframe.
Manufacturers love to ignore these sorts of things, including Samsung in the past.(I've soldered replacement capacitors into a Samsung TV I have because of an issue that Samsung eventually lost a class action suit over.) Any time a manufacturer actually reacts to and corrects an issue I do think they deserve at least some praise.
"I've seen posts on the web about this going back as far as mid August...I have no problem believing that they could have corrected this issue in that timeframe."
No, sorry. Validation takes a very long time. Validation on storage - where one mistake can corrupt the drive - takes even longer.
Thank you for ignoring my second paragraph. Let us all hope that in the future Samsung continues to be a company worth absolutely zero praise and chooses to not release any fix at all.
> I game pretty heavily every day and I honestly do not even notice the problem.
You obviously didn't read the article. It's old data, not data that is constantly being written/read. Of course you didn't see an issue. Completely opposite. Waiting a month IS what is detrimental.
"You may have missed the part of the article that states the problem only occurs when reading old data" - doesn't that sound much nicer than "You obviously didn't read the article"
Your questions seems to imply that going ahead and wiping her drive so I can update it, and then time machining the data back, is some herculean task. Sure I could've just waited a month for the DOS fix, but it took very little effort to just do it that way and not have to worry about it.
What I did: which refreshed everything (which I will have to repeat):
1. Shrink ext4 partition to less than half of drive size (smaller the better) 2. Move partition to opposite side of the drive. 3. FSTRIM 4. Expand partition to full size again.
If you have the extra space to make that partition to move the data around, just keep the blank partition, install windows into it, get the update tool, run it until the firmware is updated, then blow away the windows partition. That should be a done deal.
I had to do something similar as the tool wouldn't run on my Windows Server install. So, I installed windows 7 on my other drive, booted into it, installed the firm ware, switched back to Windows Server and blew away the Win7 install.
From the description of the bug and fix, it sounds like all you have to do on non-Windows OSes is to copy the data off the drive (or make a drive image if it's got system/boot files on it), update the firmware, reformat, and restore the data. It sounds like the firmware fixes the problem of data becoming "stale" on the drive, while the Windows-only tool just moves data around to insure all data has been freshly-written.
Just pull the drive from the non-Windows machine, put it as a secondary drive in the Windows machine, run the s/w choosing the secondary drive, and then put it back into the Mac.
There's a drop-down list of connected drives in the s/w, so I have to imagine you could do what I suggested above.
Nice article, but if changing the read parameters fixes the problem, why does all the data still need to be re-written? Either Samsung (also) changed the way the writes are done, or they only re-write the data now to cover up the symptoms.
Its pretty much possible, that they are now doing much more agressive static wear levelling, so when used regularly, this effect doesnt not present itself.
I have my doubts about the whole algorithm f*ckup.
I keep seeing this theory that samsung is refusing to acknowledge and fix the same problem in the "vanilla" 840's because they are so-called "dead" products (not being sold anymore). The Idea being they only fixed the 840 Evos because they still had units they needed to move. Can this possibly be so? Surely they wouldn't burn all of the non-pro 840 owners out there. That's bad for business and they're trying to generate brand loyalty. If they could fix the 840 Evo's so easily, surely they would do the same for the vanillas. So that leads me to believe that either they can't fix the 840's or they truly aren't affected by the bug.
I'm wondering if this implies a similarity to their upcoming replacement for the 840 EVO that isn't shared with the Vanilla 840. I love that they put this fix out for the current model, but I can't help but wonder if they might not have released it without knowing that the same fix was going to prevent this issue from popping up in the next model.
Could always press the issue via RMA. Just say its a known defect that has impacted your drive, Samsung has acknowledged it but won't fix it, and that you demand a comparable drive that does not have this problem. Only alternative would be to give you an EVO. I have a 250GB 840 in my wife's desktop, she hasn't complained about performance drop (not that she would even notice it probably) so I am not sure if I will pursue RMA.
Anyways, ran this on one of my EVOs and it finished np, took about 20 minutes for a 500GB.
If I had had a choice I would have gotten a different drive but my Macbook Pro came with one. I've never been a fan of TLC and the reasons why continue to multiply.
Because coming out first with the fix for over 9 out of 10 in the user base is just so awful, right? You choose a platform that has miniscule share, you have to live with the reality that the vast majority on other platforms come first.
Yes, it is awful, because the OS-independent tool would work for Windows, too. But such a large percentage of Windows users lack even the meager technical skills required to copy an ISO image to a CD or thumb drive and boot from that. So Samsung had to release a "Special Olympics" Windows version of the tool first to avoid being bombarded with support requests from the nitwits.
No. It's not a UNIX version. They are making a bootable version of the tool and it will run in freedos most likely. This will be useable on non-NTFS systems
FreeDOS is just the OS, not the application. See Steve Gibson SpinRite disc utility for an example of software running under FreeDOS that works on any file system from any OS. https://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm
I'm trying to see your point. If you boot a computer with an operating system and it doesn't support a filesystem then there may be problems with using any program the operating system supports with that drive.
Also, there is this from your link:
"Drives on non-PC platforms, such as Apple Macintosh or TiVo, may be temporarily relocated to a PC motherboard for data recovery, maintenance and repair by SpinRite."
Tools that operate at the sector level do not need to understand the filesystem. Read a sector, erase the sector, and rewrite the sector (for example) works regardless of the filesystem. The end-result is bit-for-bit identical to what you started with.
The quote from the SpinRite link is just saying that the drive has to be connected to a computer that can boot the SpinRite CD. A TiVo, PowerPC Macintosh, Sun SPARC server, or an ARM-based server, none of which are Intel/AMD PCs, cannot boot from the SpinRite CD. But SpinRite can still operate on the hard drives from those computers -- because it operates at the sector level.
i have 3 evo's in raid mode, so now i read that it really has to know the filesystem to correct this (so i cant even keep the array but let it do its work a bit lower level)
I am not going to install my windows and everything else again completely so i guess i have to live with it.
"Samsung told me that they've only seen the issue in the 840 EVO, although user reports suggested that the 'vanilla' 840 is affected as well." Please keep bugging them Kristian about 840 vanilla. It's the same bug and even worse as these drives are older.
Yeah I know, but it was getting so bad (just even Windows) that something had to be done. I don't even have a swap file at all to wear out my SSD so that bit of writing it added to NAND is nothing.
"With TLC NAND more sophisticated NAND management is needed due to the closer distribution of the voltage states. At the same time the wear-leveling algorithms need to be as efficient as possible (i.e. write as little as possible to save P/E cycles)
None of the big SSD manufacturers have been able to avoid widespread bugs ... and I have to give Samsung credit for handling this well."
This is a problem that comes from using TLC NAND, which is simply inferior to MLC. Unrelated bugs aren't so relevant. Samsung is using all sorts of tricks to try to maintain good performance with an inferior type of NAND.
I suggest you go back into the archives here at AnandTech and do some reading on TLC. This whole "inferior type of NAND" stuff is basically without merit for consumer level (or even pro-level, so long as we aren't talking massive continuous I/O such as with a database server) devices.
Wrong. It's fundamentally inferior to MLC just as MLC is inferior to SLC in terms of latency, longevity, voltage requirements, and so on. The only thing the more layered NAND types offer is less cost due to higher density. Since MLC is not expensive to make in terms of cost vs. capacity when compared with TLC, TLC is a solution in need of a problem.
Samsung's many schemes to milk performance out of TLC are being exposed. First there is the abysmal steady state performance of the original 840 120 and now this.
You're arguing semantics. A Buck Riviera is fundamentally inferior for going really fast in comparison to a Formula One car. but it is not fundamentally inferior when used for a suitable purpose. TLC is not "fundamentally inferior" to SLC or MLC for use in consumer class drives, or even regular "business class" drives (not enterprise/server) for that matter.
Of course it is inferior, and your analogy is flawed because it only takes speed into account and not durability.
A better one would be three cars. One made out of steel with a v6 and a supercharger (SLC), one made out of aluminum with a v4 and a supercharger (MLC, and one made out of wood with a v4 (TLC). Sooner than later (when compared to the others) the wood of the TLC automobile is going to rot or buckle under the stress of usage and the car will fall apart. TLC is slower, weaker, and more prone to error than either of the others, which means it is less suitable for any workload compared to the others. And any stress you do put on the drive lowers the endurance and increases the potential for errors far faster than equivalent levels stress placed on the others. This is not semantics, this is reality.
Now you can do some tricks to increase the speed of TLC, like using system ram for cache or making a portion of the drive act as a supercharged SLC, but in that case you're using SLC for speed not TLC, and the reason you do that is because TLC is inferior and you're trying to mask that.
I have a 1tb EVO. I'm using it right now to write this to you. But i don't fool myself into thinking i bought something that's faster or more reliable than it actually is. You might do the same.
I am getting tired of all the TLC bashing here. TLC is the main reason (consumer) SSDs are so cheap that I can now even recommend SSDs for sub 400$ systems. That is a huge win for the avereage user. I can see, that TLC needs some more sophisticated algorithms than MLC (Just as MLC needs better ones than SLC). But the manufacturers are getting there and for now without a really bad (read: data loss) bug. If you really think TLC is crab, pay the premium for a MLC or SLC Drive and be happy.
I should also note the time taken for the SSD read speed util to run after the fix was far quicker, suggesting there really was quite a chunk of data that just wasn't reading fast at all.
HDTach looked like a series of canyons for mine, but after running the utility HDTach flatlines at 450MB/sec sequential reads. It's worth looking at it again a month or two from now to see if the promise of a permanent fix holds up.
Can this be done if the EVO is the OS drive? I have two of the 1TB 840 EVOs. One is my OS drive & the other is dedicated to Steam & my game library. I am currently running the repair tool on my secondary Steam drive. Hasn't finished yet... Anyway I am wondering if it is safe to run this repair tool if for the OS drive. Is that a no no, or is it safe? Thanks.
Unfortunately the Performance Restoration Software v1.1 killed my performance. Before and After using the performance benchmark in the sansung software bundle: Before Random Read/Write IOPS Seq Read/Write (MB/s) 87137/66572 542/511 After Random Read/Write IOPS Seq Read/Write (MB/s) 51771/48737 284/270
I applied this fix to a couple of our drives as soon as it was released. Straightforward and no data loss, but at least using the ATTO DiskBench tool that I've used for years, the results are mixed. When I first heard of this bug, I benched the drive and found that performance was abysmal compared to new. I ran DiskFresh and that mostly restored the performance - but only temporarily. A month later and I benched the drive again and it was as bad as ever. Applying the fix has restored the performance - mostly. At small block sizes it's still only a fraction of what it was new.
I'm no SSD expert so anyone want to explain?
Anyhow, Samsung has already lost our business. Our newest round of SSD's purchased went to a different brand.
Unfortunately Samsung offers no help on how to roll back to the Microsoft AHCI drivers, so if you installed a 3rd party SATA controller that came with your motherboard, you will have a much harder time. You may as well pull your other drives and do a clean install.
On my gaming system, the 840 EVO is connected via the Marvel 9xxxxx chip (4 1TB WDs and an 840 Pro on the Intel chip). When I ran the Samsung software, it flashed the new firmware on the 840 EVO, restarted, and could no longer see the SSD. I ended up connecting the EVO via the Intel chipset to run the "restoration", then moving back to the Marvel.
I was thinking of buying this for my macbook pro mid 2012 for photo and video editing. I also have a Windows desktop and I was wondering if I could connect the drive to one of the ports as a slave drive and update or does it have to be the OS drive?
There is no such thing as a slave drive with SATA. However you will have to enable AHCI in the BIOS in order to be able to update the firmware. And it needs to be connected to a SATA port on the motherboard. Connecting it over an USB to SATA adapter cable won't work with the update.
The performance restoration tool is very annoying, i had to update 5 unused SSD's today. The tool require the SSD to be initialized and to have a partition on it before fw update. Also you can't update only the firmware on a drive without data. You are forced to go through the whole refresh procedure even without data. Also the automatic shutdowns, very annoying :(
Had to uninstall my AMD SATA AHCI driver (amd_sata) twice, as the first time it redownloaded itself again from Windows Update, but thereafter it was smooth sailing via the Microsoft AHCI driver (msahci). On that note, AMD doesn't seem to want to let you uninstall it easily, as there's no option in the AMD Catalyst Install Manager to remove it. In the end I had to remove it by uninstalling the device directly in Device Manager!
Did a quick test before and after with AS SSD Benchmark and looks as though it picked up a bit, though not too much as my drive hasn't seen too much in the way of multiple extra writes or whatnot.
P.S. I finally bit the bullet in signing up for a new account name here as my old account name seems officially unretrievable (since I no longer have access to the email address with which it was registered).
Testing with AS SSD will not tell you anything. AS SSD and similar benchmark programs create a new test file when they perform a test. This issue affected the read speeds of old files, files which had not been modified for months.
I guess I drew the short straw. I started running restoration software several hours ago on a 1TB 840 EVO running Win 7. The firmware update and steps 1 and 2 completed successfully, but once I hit step 3 the problems started.
At about 80% complete, I started getting BSODs. Each time, I restart and the Samsung software seems to try to pick up where it left off. But it's slow-going, as the machine it trying to reboot at the same time. Then, it will run for some time more and BSOD again. The error mentions something about nvlddmkm.sys. From Googling, I think I have some video driver incompatibility (these are probably older drivers), but I don't understand how this software would affect the video system anyway. The hard drive light is constantly lit, so I take step 3 to be the reading-and-writing phase of the process.
After 3 or 4 BSODs, I booted into Safe Mode to see if I could figure out how to stop the Samsung software from running on restart. Using SysInternals AutoRuns, I didn't see where it loading from. For curiosity, I started the restoration software while still in Safe Mode, it picked up where it left off, and seems to be running. Fingers crossed.
The restoration program completed under Safe Mode. I rebooted Windows normally, everything seems to be working. Maybe it would be safer to wait for the DOS version of the program, even if you are running Windows, just to avoid any driver incompatibilities?
Yeah I used the DOS Version Samsung EVO 840 Performance Restore ISO as I am using a EVO 840 1 TB in my Macbook with native only MAC OSX. It was 15 Minutes or so Performance + update to the firmware!!
I have just run the Samsung upgrade. Below you can find screenshots of my drive's performance on the 1st day I bought it and then today before applying the fix (which includes a firmware upgrade) and after applying the fix.
There is a huge gain in read speed after running the fix (which includes a firmware upgrade). My SSD is now -apparently- faster than when I first bought it.
I don't get over 550 in the sequential read (540 before the update) and 532 seq write, unless I turn on RAPID Mode, then I get 6088 seq read, 5203 seq write.
It does say 'up to 540' there too, makes me think you have RAPID mode on too? and your varying speeds will be strongly connected to that.
This is on an i7-4770, Asus 787M-PLUS, with 16gb corsair 1866.
For those with a raid 0 array like myself the dos version worked for me. I used the boot cd and repaired one drive at a time. You will need to start the process again after the first is completed. My system rebooted as normal after I finished.
Samsung responds based on cost vs benefit. This fix will not work where the drive is being used externally. As the samsung SSD 840 EVO Performance Restoration Software clearly states..."the current fix does not work with SSDs connected via the SCSI controller interface and USB to SATA Interface. As only a small number of users use these drives externally to say exchange huge files and benefit from the faster read speeds relative to HDs, Samsung has abandoned such users. There is no convenient fix for such users.
Mac OSX Yosemite - anyone yet run into the reported TRIM-enabled issues with non-Apple SSDs under Yosemite? is this a deal killer for persons looking to upgrade Macs with Samsung/Intel/etc. SSDs…like me?
Reported as a boot-drive problem, although I don't see how it won't also be a non-boot SSD problem, too, if real.
Has anyone heard if Samsung has fixed this issue with on newer production 840 EVO's.....or do we still need to fix this issue ourselves ?...i just bought one, so i was hoping they already fixed this.
The restoration does not work on my drive, the firmware update finishes and my PC restarts, but when it should move on to step one the firmware update starts again. I am relatively new to the PCMR (but was never a conslow peasant) and while experienced in hardware I am unfamiliar with software and how everything works on Windows 8.1, here is my unsolved troubleshooting post for the EVO: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/278626-840-evo...
Don't worry, it's a temporary fix anyway, Samsung really screwed up. My drives came with the latest firmware and are already developing slow read zones after just 2 months. There are people are complaining at overclock.net so it's not an isolated case.
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omgyeti - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
840 EVO in my wife's Mac. MX100 in my gaming rig. I know it makes sense from Samsung's perspective to drop this for Windows initially, but I can't get past that depressed feeling of knowing I can't fix her drive for a few more weeks. Maybe I'll just install the new firmware, wipe the drive, and do a Time Machine backup so I can get this over with.omgyeti - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Also, kudos to Samsung for fixing this. It makes me so happy when a manufacturer listens to their costumers instead of pretending the problem doesn't exist.alacard - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Please save your congratulations.Samsung had to have already known about this bug and has clearly been working on a fix for many months. They didn't just read a forum post one day in september and then turn around and put out a firmware and software fix in a month's time. Validation alone takes far longer than that, nevermind creating the firmware and software to reprogram the drive.
Samsung is not a hero, they're a for profit business doing a cost benefit analysis on every unforeseen event that comes their way. In this case, the benefit outweigh the cost of fixing the problem. Spare your gratitude.
omgyeti - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
I've seen posts on the web about this going back as far as mid August, and I wouldn't be surprised it this was talked about online prior to that. I have no problem believing that they could have corrected this issue in that timeframe.Manufacturers love to ignore these sorts of things, including Samsung in the past.(I've soldered replacement capacitors into a Samsung TV I have because of an issue that Samsung eventually lost a class action suit over.) Any time a manufacturer actually reacts to and corrects an issue I do think they deserve at least some praise.
alacard - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
"I've seen posts on the web about this going back as far as mid August...I have no problem believing that they could have corrected this issue in that timeframe."No, sorry. Validation takes a very long time. Validation on storage - where one mistake can corrupt the drive - takes even longer.
hojnikb - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Pretty much. Samsung most likely cought this bug way before public had any idea this is actually a problem.omgyeti - Friday, December 26, 2014 - link
Thank you for ignoring my second paragraph. Let us all hope that in the future Samsung continues to be a company worth absolutely zero praise and chooses to not release any fix at all.gireal - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Don't forget that they're going to completely ignore that the 840 model suffers from this issue as well.Thanks for nothing. I'm sure I will enjoy writing a drive's worth of data to it every month or so because Samsung won't fix a design flaw.
svan1971 - Thursday, October 23, 2014 - link
Samsung is a hero because they are a for profit business. Non profit businesses produce nothing anybody wants.Rarden - Friday, December 5, 2014 - link
http://www.raspberrypi.org/risingstars - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Do you and your wife really perform massive amounts of read/write that waiting a month or so is that detrimental?I game pretty heavily every day and I honestly do not even notice the problem.
djdes - Sunday, October 19, 2014 - link
> I game pretty heavily every day and I honestly do not even notice the problem.You obviously didn't read the article. It's old data, not data that is constantly being written/read. Of course you didn't see an issue. Completely opposite. Waiting a month IS what is detrimental.
BobDaMann12 - Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - link
"You may have missed the part of the article that states the problem only occurs when reading old data" - doesn't that sound much nicer than "You obviously didn't read the article"He was just asking a question
omgyeti - Friday, December 26, 2014 - link
Your questions seems to imply that going ahead and wiping her drive so I can update it, and then time machining the data back, is some herculean task. Sure I could've just waited a month for the DOS fix, but it took very little effort to just do it that way and not have to worry about it.skilimavro - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
shouldn't complain, at least it will be a few weeks, I'm running Linux... I may never get the updatedjdes - Sunday, October 19, 2014 - link
What I did: which refreshed everything (which I will have to repeat):1. Shrink ext4 partition to less than half of drive size (smaller the better)
2. Move partition to opposite side of the drive.
3. FSTRIM
4. Expand partition to full size again.
Doesn't fix the firmware though.
Crushnaut - Sunday, October 19, 2014 - link
If you have the extra space to make that partition to move the data around, just keep the blank partition, install windows into it, get the update tool, run it until the firmware is updated, then blow away the windows partition. That should be a done deal.I had to do something similar as the tool wouldn't run on my Windows Server install. So, I installed windows 7 on my other drive, booted into it, installed the firm ware, switched back to Windows Server and blew away the Win7 install.
sicid - Monday, October 20, 2014 - link
This wouldn't work. The tool states that right now it only works with NTFS filesystemsSolandri - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
From the description of the bug and fix, it sounds like all you have to do on non-Windows OSes is to copy the data off the drive (or make a drive image if it's got system/boot files on it), update the firmware, reformat, and restore the data. It sounds like the firmware fixes the problem of data becoming "stale" on the drive, while the Windows-only tool just moves data around to insure all data has been freshly-written.rewen - Monday, October 20, 2014 - link
Just pull the drive from the non-Windows machine, put it as a secondary drive in the Windows machine, run the s/w choosing the secondary drive, and then put it back into the Mac.There's a drop-down list of connected drives in the s/w, so I have to imagine you could do what I suggested above.
djdes - Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - link
Only works for ntfs, I shouldn't have to install windows or put it in a windows machine to solve a problem. It's a drive, not a winmodem.xkiller213 - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
that's it, no more Samsung SSDs for me: they won't release an update for the 840, which suffers from the same problem...Impulses - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Would be nice if Kristian could press them for an answer here, tho I'm sure he's trying. They sold a lot of those vanilla 840s for a year...Kristian Vättö - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
I'm definitely pushing them for a fixPer Hansson - Monday, October 20, 2014 - link
Yea, the fix really needs to be released for the 840 Vanilla too!Here is a pic from a 120GB 840 Vanilla belonging to a friend of me:
http://img.techpowerup.org/141020/27-september-201...
Coup27 - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
I upgraded our entire company to vanilla 840's.konradsa - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Agree. I am glad I have an EVO and I got the upgrade. But if I had a vanilla 840, I would be pretty upset now as well.konradsa - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Nice article, but if changing the read parameters fixes the problem, why does all the data still need to be re-written? Either Samsung (also) changed the way the writes are done, or they only re-write the data now to cover up the symptoms.hojnikb - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Its pretty much possible, that they are now doing much more agressive static wear levelling, so when used regularly, this effect doesnt not present itself.I have my doubts about the whole algorithm f*ckup.
fenix840 - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
I keep seeing this theory that samsung is refusing to acknowledge and fix the same problem in the "vanilla" 840's because they are so-called "dead" products (not being sold anymore). The Idea being they only fixed the 840 Evos because they still had units they needed to move. Can this possibly be so? Surely they wouldn't burn all of the non-pro 840 owners out there. That's bad for business and they're trying to generate brand loyalty. If they could fix the 840 Evo's so easily, surely they would do the same for the vanillas. So that leads me to believe that either they can't fix the 840's or they truly aren't affected by the bug.omgyeti - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
I'm wondering if this implies a similarity to their upcoming replacement for the 840 EVO that isn't shared with the Vanilla 840. I love that they put this fix out for the current model, but I can't help but wonder if they might not have released it without knowing that the same fix was going to prevent this issue from popping up in the next model.chizow - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Could always press the issue via RMA. Just say its a known defect that has impacted your drive, Samsung has acknowledged it but won't fix it, and that you demand a comparable drive that does not have this problem. Only alternative would be to give you an EVO. I have a 250GB 840 in my wife's desktop, she hasn't complained about performance drop (not that she would even notice it probably) so I am not sure if I will pursue RMA.Anyways, ran this on one of my EVOs and it finished np, took about 20 minutes for a 500GB.
Bkord123 - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
So sick of these assholes releasing Windows only software. Your shit is fucked up on all fronts, fix it the right way.Oxford Guy - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
If I had had a choice I would have gotten a different drive but my Macbook Pro came with one. I've never been a fan of TLC and the reasons why continue to multiply.Romberry - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Because coming out first with the fix for over 9 out of 10 in the user base is just so awful, right? You choose a platform that has miniscule share, you have to live with the reality that the vast majority on other platforms come first.Oxford Guy - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
If a company can't support a product properly it shouldn't see it to those customers.fmaxwell - Sunday, October 19, 2014 - link
Yes, it is awful, because the OS-independent tool would work for Windows, too. But such a large percentage of Windows users lack even the meager technical skills required to copy an ISO image to a CD or thumb drive and boot from that. So Samsung had to release a "Special Olympics" Windows version of the tool first to avoid being bombarded with support requests from the nitwits.Mikemk - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
"Mac and Linux users will have to wait for the DOS version of the tool"I think you mean UNIX?
Coup27 - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Samsung call it a DOS version, but I think you are correct.cygnus1 - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
No. It's not a UNIX version. They are making a bootable version of the tool and it will run in freedos most likely. This will be useable on non-NTFS systemsOxford Guy - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Freedos supports journaled HFS+?Romberry - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
FreeDOS is just the OS, not the application. See Steve Gibson SpinRite disc utility for an example of software running under FreeDOS that works on any file system from any OS. https://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htmOxford Guy - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
I'm trying to see your point. If you boot a computer with an operating system and it doesn't support a filesystem then there may be problems with using any program the operating system supports with that drive.Also, there is this from your link:
"Drives on non-PC platforms, such as Apple Macintosh or TiVo, may be temporarily relocated to a PC motherboard for data recovery, maintenance and repair by SpinRite."
fmaxwell - Sunday, October 19, 2014 - link
Tools that operate at the sector level do not need to understand the filesystem. Read a sector, erase the sector, and rewrite the sector (for example) works regardless of the filesystem. The end-result is bit-for-bit identical to what you started with.The quote from the SpinRite link is just saying that the drive has to be connected to a computer that can boot the SpinRite CD. A TiVo, PowerPC Macintosh, Sun SPARC server, or an ARM-based server, none of which are Intel/AMD PCs, cannot boot from the SpinRite CD. But SpinRite can still operate on the hard drives from those computers -- because it operates at the sector level.
jcompagner - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
i have 3 evo's in raid mode, so now i read that it really has to know the filesystem to correct this(so i cant even keep the array but let it do its work a bit lower level)
I am not going to install my windows and everything else again completely so i guess i have to live with it.
cygnus1 - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
Or you could just backup the array, run the fix process on the drives, and then restore the backup....OnBoard - Thursday, October 16, 2014 - link
"Samsung told me that they've only seen the issue in the 840 EVO, although user reports suggested that the 'vanilla' 840 is affected as well." Please keep bugging them Kristian about 840 vanilla. It's the same bug and even worse as these drives are older.This is my drive: http://imgur.com/dYJFuTt
Did a defrag while waiting for a fix that never came: http://imgur.com/lJReygN
Just now tested again and already worse :( http://imgur.com/KutKo3I
My normal HDD is MANY times faster. I could even send my SSD to Samsung if they send me a replacement, if it would help fix this faster.
mobutu - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Dude, defraging is bad for any SSD so don't do it anymore.hojnikb - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
its not really that bad. Just casuses a little bit more wear.OnBoard - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Yeah I know, but it was getting so bad (just even Windows) that something had to be done. I don't even have a swap file at all to wear out my SSD so that bit of writing it added to NAND is nothing.Montago - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
My 500 GB Vanilla Samsung 840 is just as bad :(I really hope they release a fix - alternatively i could issue a warranty claim
Oxford Guy - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
"With TLC NAND more sophisticated NAND management is needed due to the closer distribution of the voltage states. At the same time the wear-leveling algorithms need to be as efficient as possible (i.e. write as little as possible to save P/E cycles)None of the big SSD manufacturers have been able to avoid widespread bugs ... and I have to give Samsung credit for handling this well."
This is a problem that comes from using TLC NAND, which is simply inferior to MLC. Unrelated bugs aren't so relevant. Samsung is using all sorts of tricks to try to maintain good performance with an inferior type of NAND.
Romberry - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
I suggest you go back into the archives here at AnandTech and do some reading on TLC. This whole "inferior type of NAND" stuff is basically without merit for consumer level (or even pro-level, so long as we aren't talking massive continuous I/O such as with a database server) devices.Oxford Guy - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Wrong. It's fundamentally inferior to MLC just as MLC is inferior to SLC in terms of latency, longevity, voltage requirements, and so on. The only thing the more layered NAND types offer is less cost due to higher density. Since MLC is not expensive to make in terms of cost vs. capacity when compared with TLC, TLC is a solution in need of a problem.Samsung's many schemes to milk performance out of TLC are being exposed. First there is the abysmal steady state performance of the original 840 120 and now this.
Romberry - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
You're arguing semantics. A Buck Riviera is fundamentally inferior for going really fast in comparison to a Formula One car. but it is not fundamentally inferior when used for a suitable purpose. TLC is not "fundamentally inferior" to SLC or MLC for use in consumer class drives, or even regular "business class" drives (not enterprise/server) for that matter.alacard - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
Of course it is inferior, and your analogy is flawed because it only takes speed into account and not durability.A better one would be three cars. One made out of steel with a v6 and a supercharger (SLC), one made out of aluminum with a v4 and a supercharger (MLC, and one made out of wood with a v4 (TLC). Sooner than later (when compared to the others) the wood of the TLC automobile is going to rot or buckle under the stress of usage and the car will fall apart. TLC is slower, weaker, and more prone to error than either of the others, which means it is less suitable for any workload compared to the others. And any stress you do put on the drive lowers the endurance and increases the potential for errors far faster than equivalent levels stress placed on the others. This is not semantics, this is reality.
Now you can do some tricks to increase the speed of TLC, like using system ram for cache or making a portion of the drive act as a supercharged SLC, but in that case you're using SLC for speed not TLC, and the reason you do that is because TLC is inferior and you're trying to mask that.
I have a 1tb EVO. I'm using it right now to write this to you. But i don't fool myself into thinking i bought something that's faster or more reliable than it actually is. You might do the same.
simonpschmitt - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
I am getting tired of all the TLC bashing here.TLC is the main reason (consumer) SSDs are so cheap that I can now even recommend SSDs for sub 400$ systems. That is a huge win for the avereage user.
I can see, that TLC needs some more sophisticated algorithms than MLC (Just as MLC needs better ones than SLC). But the manufacturers are getting there and for now without a really bad (read: data loss) bug.
If you really think TLC is crab, pay the premium for a MLC or SLC Drive and be happy.
hojnikb - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Jokes on you, there are plenty mlc drives that are cheaper than tlc drives :)Oxford Guy - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Yeah... some people need to follow slickdeals. There have been plenty of deals on MLC drives from reputable makers.hojnikb - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Yeah. MX100 for example even had msrp quite a bit lower than what TLC were selling for. So yeah, having TLC won't make ssd magically cheaper.Ebonstar - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Here's my anecdotal results from before/after running the fix on my 1TB 840EVO:Before: http://i.imgur.com/FL09X8p.png
After: http://i.imgur.com/nrkdBLg.png
I should also note the time taken for the SSD read speed util to run after the fix was far quicker, suggesting there really was quite a chunk of data that just wasn't reading fast at all.
VoraciousGorak - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
HDTach looked like a series of canyons for mine, but after running the utility HDTach flatlines at 450MB/sec sequential reads. It's worth looking at it again a month or two from now to see if the promise of a permanent fix holds up.LeadStarDude - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
Can this be done if the EVO is the OS drive? I have two of the 1TB 840 EVOs. One is my OS drive & the other is dedicated to Steam & my game library. I am currently running the repair tool on my secondary Steam drive. Hasn't finished yet... Anyway I am wondering if it is safe to run this repair tool if for the OS drive. Is that a no no, or is it safe? Thanks.the.tx.freds - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link
Unfortunately the Performance Restoration Software v1.1 killed my performance. Before and After using the performance benchmark in the sansung software bundle:Before
Random Read/Write IOPS Seq Read/Write (MB/s)
87137/66572 542/511
After
Random Read/Write IOPS Seq Read/Write (MB/s)
51771/48737 284/270
zhenya00 - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
I applied this fix to a couple of our drives as soon as it was released. Straightforward and no data loss, but at least using the ATTO DiskBench tool that I've used for years, the results are mixed. When I first heard of this bug, I benched the drive and found that performance was abysmal compared to new. I ran DiskFresh and that mostly restored the performance - but only temporarily. A month later and I benched the drive again and it was as bad as ever. Applying the fix has restored the performance - mostly. At small block sizes it's still only a fraction of what it was new.I'm no SSD expert so anyone want to explain?
Anyhow, Samsung has already lost our business. Our newest round of SSD's purchased went to a different brand.
ThatMouse - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Unfortunately Samsung offers no help on how to roll back to the Microsoft AHCI drivers, so if you installed a 3rd party SATA controller that came with your motherboard, you will have a much harder time. You may as well pull your other drives and do a clean install.skeezix99 - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
On my gaming system, the 840 EVO is connected via the Marvel 9xxxxx chip (4 1TB WDs and an 840 Pro on the Intel chip). When I ran the Samsung software, it flashed the new firmware on the 840 EVO, restarted, and could no longer see the SSD. I ended up connecting the EVO via the Intel chipset to run the "restoration", then moving back to the Marvel.Jzpunltd - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
I was thinking of buying this for my macbook pro mid 2012 for photo and video editing. I also have a Windows desktop and I was wondering if I could connect the drive to one of the ports as a slave drive and update or does it have to be the OS drive?gpisic - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
There is no such thing as a slave drive with SATA. However you will have to enable AHCI in the BIOS in order to be able to update the firmware. And it needs to be connected to a SATA port on the motherboard. Connecting it over an USB to SATA adapter cable won't work with the update.gpisic - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
The performance restoration tool is very annoying, i had to update 5 unused SSD's today. The tool require the SSD to be initialized and to have a partition on it before fw update. Also you can't update only the firmware on a drive without data. You are forced to go through the whole refresh procedure even without data. Also the automatic shutdowns, very annoying :(damianrobertjones - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
Opens Samsung Magician....Nope no update for me :(
(I'm in the U.K.)
Coup27 - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
For some reason Samsung are not offering this update via Magician, you have to download it separately from this page:http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconduct...
lord_anselhelm - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
Had to uninstall my AMD SATA AHCI driver (amd_sata) twice, as the first time it redownloaded itself again from Windows Update, but thereafter it was smooth sailing via the Microsoft AHCI driver (msahci). On that note, AMD doesn't seem to want to let you uninstall it easily, as there's no option in the AMD Catalyst Install Manager to remove it. In the end I had to remove it by uninstalling the device directly in Device Manager!Did a quick test before and after with AS SSD Benchmark and looks as though it picked up a bit, though not too much as my drive hasn't seen too much in the way of multiple extra writes or whatnot.
P.S. I finally bit the bullet in signing up for a new account name here as my old account name seems officially unretrievable (since I no longer have access to the email address with which it was registered).
Coup27 - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
Testing with AS SSD will not tell you anything. AS SSD and similar benchmark programs create a new test file when they perform a test. This issue affected the read speeds of old files, files which had not been modified for months.lord_anselhelm - Monday, October 20, 2014 - link
I had not thought of that :) Much obliged for the reply there :)It did help me to show the massive differences between amd_sata and msahci. Each has vastly different weaknesses and strengths, oddly enough.
LeadStarDude - Saturday, October 18, 2014 - link
Is it safe to run the repair tool if the EVO drive being repaired is the OS drive? Sorry if this is a noob question, but better safe than sorry...Coup27 - Sunday, October 19, 2014 - link
Yes. This is how a lot of people will be doing it. I did it the other day on my OS drive. Worked fine.lord_anselhelm - Monday, October 20, 2014 - link
I can confirm that I carried this out on my boot drive (GPT and EFI) with no issues at all.bbdd - Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - link
I guess I drew the short straw. I started running restoration software several hours ago on a 1TB 840 EVO running Win 7. The firmware update and steps 1 and 2 completed successfully, but once I hit step 3 the problems started.At about 80% complete, I started getting BSODs. Each time, I restart and the Samsung software seems to try to pick up where it left off. But it's slow-going, as the machine it trying to reboot at the same time. Then, it will run for some time more and BSOD again. The error mentions something about nvlddmkm.sys. From Googling, I think I have some video driver incompatibility (these are probably older drivers), but I don't understand how this software would affect the video system anyway. The hard drive light is constantly lit, so I take step 3 to be the reading-and-writing phase of the process.
After 3 or 4 BSODs, I booted into Safe Mode to see if I could figure out how to stop the Samsung software from running on restart. Using SysInternals AutoRuns, I didn't see where it loading from. For curiosity, I started the restoration software while still in Safe Mode, it picked up where it left off, and seems to be running. Fingers crossed.
bbdd - Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - link
The restoration program completed under Safe Mode. I rebooted Windows normally, everything seems to be working. Maybe it would be safer to wait for the DOS version of the program, even if you are running Windows, just to avoid any driver incompatibilities?scunmmonk - Wednesday, October 29, 2014 - link
Yeah I used the DOS Version Samsung EVO 840 Performance Restore ISO as I am using a EVO 840 1 TB in my Macbook with native only MAC OSX. It was 15 Minutes or so Performance + update to the firmware!!BadThad - Friday, October 24, 2014 - link
Autoruns....one of my favorite utilities EVER!SeanJ76 - Sunday, October 26, 2014 - link
Intel>Samsung SSD's sorry........SeanJ76 - Sunday, October 26, 2014 - link
....and this is why I'll never buy another Samsung product for any of my future builds.....Achaios - Wednesday, November 5, 2014 - link
I have just run the Samsung upgrade. Below you can find screenshots of my drive's performance on the 1st day I bought it and then today before applying the fix (which includes a firmware upgrade) and after applying the fix.(Perf Test on the first day I bought the drive, 18-Apr-2014): http://i.imgur.com/t8jj4Jb.jpg?1
(Today before and after the fix): http://i.imgur.com/u183hUZ.jpg?1
There is a huge gain in read speed after running the fix (which includes a firmware upgrade). My SSD is now -apparently- faster than when I first bought it.
Yakumo.unr - Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - link
I have a 256gb 840 evo.I don't get over 550 in the sequential read (540 before the update) and 532 seq write, unless I turn on RAPID Mode, then I get 6088 seq read, 5203 seq write.
It does say 'up to 540' there too, makes me think you have RAPID mode on too? and your varying speeds will be strongly connected to that.
This is on an i7-4770, Asus 787M-PLUS, with 16gb corsair 1866.
Nick49 - Wednesday, November 5, 2014 - link
For those with a raid 0 array like myself the dos version worked for me. I used the boot cd and repaired one drive at a time. You will need to start the process again after the first is completed.My system rebooted as normal after I finished.
maxtt - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link
Samsung responds based on cost vs benefit. This fix will not work where the drive is being used externally. As the samsung SSD 840 EVO Performance Restoration Software clearly states..."the current fix does not work with SSDs connected via the SCSI controller interface and USB to SATA Interface. As only a small number of users use these drives externally to say exchange huge files and benefit from the faster read speeds relative to HDs, Samsung has abandoned such users. There is no convenient fix for such users.baal80 - Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - link
Hm, I just bought an 840 EVO drive. As it's currently empty I assume that I only need to update its firmware, is that correct?Jazz144 - Saturday, November 29, 2014 - link
Mac OSX Yosemite - anyone yet run into the reported TRIM-enabled issues with non-Apple SSDs under Yosemite? is this a deal killer for persons looking to upgrade Macs with Samsung/Intel/etc. SSDs…like me?Reported as a boot-drive problem, although I don't see how it won't also be a non-boot SSD problem, too, if real.
Thank you.
optionman - Tuesday, December 9, 2014 - link
Has anyone heard if Samsung has fixed this issue with on newer production 840 EVO's.....or do we still need to fix this issue ourselves ?...i just bought one, so i was hoping they already fixed this.zacRupnow - Monday, February 9, 2015 - link
The restoration does not work on my drive, the firmware update finishes and my PC restarts, but when it should move on to step one the firmware update starts again. I am relatively new to the PCMR (but was never a conslow peasant) and while experienced in hardware I am unfamiliar with software and how everything works on Windows 8.1, here is my unsolved troubleshooting post for the EVO: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/278626-840-evo...nirolf - Friday, February 13, 2015 - link
Don't worry, it's a temporary fix anyway, Samsung really screwed up. My drives came with the latest firmware and are already developing slow read zones after just 2 months. There are people are complaining at overclock.net so it's not an isolated case.Murloc - Thursday, February 19, 2015 - link
I haven't noticed anything yet.BrotherPrinterService - Monday, August 10, 2020 - link
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