I think this review is lamish to say the least without at least throwing a few performance figures to determine any potential "side effects" which may be the actual cause of the extra battery life. I won't be surprised to see downclocking at play, and a bit of manipulation and customer deception - MS launches the surface 2 at higher clocks to be benchmarked and claim performance figures and later issues a frequency lowering firmware to present better battery life figures without updating the performance figures and keeping the higher ones.
These benchmarks are a fixed workload. Downclocking the CPU would actually significantly WORSEN battery life because the CPU would never return to an idle state.
In addition, with the way modern CPU's do dynamic range of performance via Turbo, there is no need for a 'review special' frequency. The CPU is always capable of selecting the most efficient clockspeed for the workload at hand. Haswell can literally adjust it's frequency from 600MHz to it's fully rated speed in 100MHz increments, and does so during real world workloads. The reason you still see games like benchmark boosting in Cell phones is because they typically only have two or three power states (off, low, high), not 20-30.
Neither of your points is accurate. First, the highest turbo state isn't necessarily the most power-efficient--this is easily demonstrated by the fact that ULV i7s usually get worse battery life in fixed-workload tests than i5s despite the better binning (see Anand's MBA tests from earlier this year, for example). While it's not true that lower clocks increase efficiency, the higher voltage needed at higher frequencies does not always justify itself from a total power perspective. There's probably a sweet spot that depends both on workload and voltage bin of the particular CPU.
You also don't seen to understand how smartphone DVFS works. Some ARM SoCs have less-granular frequency stepping than 100MHz, but not all--I've seen as few as four-ish from 300MHz-1.2GHz in OMAP4, while the APQ8064T in my One has about 13 steps from 386MHz-1.7GHz. The reason benchmark boosting is effective is that the SoC frequency is controlled by software, so the stepping is incredibly slow. The algorithms that control the SoC frequency usually poll the workload every 10-100ms, meaning tens or even hundreds of millions of cycles can pass at a lower frequency before the software will ramp up frequency to respond to an increase (or decrease) in workload. By contrast, Intel CPUs handle this stepping in hardware, meaning that it's much faster--though I don't know the numbers offhand.
I never said max speed was most power efficient. I said there is no point in doing a 'benchmark special' speed because you can just make that the max turbo bin and use it when appropriate. So there isn't any 'gaming' of the system going on. This is the whole reason Anand runs varying workloads for the more in depth battery life reviews; one for a 'light' workload, one for a 'heavy' workload, and one for a 'maximum' workload.
The whole point of pushing dynamic range for power states in CPU's is so that you don't have to make the tradeoff between high performance and great battery life
MS really should have had this firmware on release, even if it meant delaying SP2 for a short while. Now all the reviews for SP2 are out with less battery life and probably lower scores/recommendations because of it. Stupid.
Well, it was a marvel firmware problem. My guess is that MS put the screws on them to get it fixed ASAP, but, unfortunately there is no way in the software/hardware world to know how long it will take for some issue to be fixed. They probably expected that it would take several months to be fix, but happily, it only took 1.
ARM SoCs seem always perform better on video playback tests - maybe their video decoder/player block are good at offloading the CPU block, so CPU cores can tgo deeper sleep. When started searching other Intel machines to verify my theory, I surprisingly found no other reviews of intel-based stuff showing video playback scores -- not with MBA, not with VAIO, not with other recent articles unless I missed. Surface Pro 1 & 2 are the only ones Anand borthered to run those tests.
He must love the Surfaces, or hate them, very much :-)
The biggest gripe I have with basically every Surface Pro review is that they don't bother comparing it with other ultrabooks. That's its category, frankly. Weird halfway-between devices like this should be compared to both categories for a real look at it, because that's what they're intended for, so at least we've got these mobile comparisons. It's really important to know if a device like this is worse at everything, or competitive in one category while falling short in another.
Another fact worth pointing out is that a Surface Pro 2 with Battery Cover should get about 14.28 hours in their web browsing test.
Now the surface 2 pro became a quite practical device. I've found sony and dell's offering are not quite good (just as expensive, has worse build and worse pen) so maybe I'll end up getting surface 2 pro.
As a rule, generally real-life battery is better than tested battery - at least that's been my experience. It's more important to be consistent and fairly accurate than constantly improve to get a more accurate test and have no consistency.
I'd love to see the desktop battery life test results on Surface Pro. I think for most people, the desktop usage model is more realistic than the tablet one. Not to mention it's awkward reading the battery efficiency chart without surface in a surface article. :P
Don't the Sony benchmarks show that battery life is to a large extent more dependent on the hardware than the O.S? What makes the Sony so much better? Much better batteries & a much power efficient screen?
Anyways kudos to the Surface team this is a big win for SP2 users. Even if battery benchmarks only go so far. I'm typing this post on a brand-new Surface 2 & did super intensive things such as import more than 2gb of outlook files & index them, replicate GBs of Skydiver files, setup apps & download & install all windows updates. Play a few HD movies and listen to Xbox music (btw sound is so shockingly loud for such a small device that I'm heavily lowering it, granted in a silent environment). The battery gauge shows 50%, fingers crossed!
You may already have it, I believe it came out the 23rd if memory serves. Idle battery life estimates went from 10 to 13 hours overnight I found, which makes sense looking at the changes seen above.
It would have been nice if you had tested the Pro as an ultrabook as well(performance wise and battery wise - light/medium/heavy), since practically being one, and not just as a tablet.
I am curious...do an active digitizer and a capacitive multitouch capability add to the power draw of the device even when NOT in use ? I always thought that a resistive touchscreen is passive while a capacitive one has an added idle power draw. What say you Anand ?
There is nothing resistive about the touch screens used in the Surface Pro 2 or any current tablet/smartphone in the last ~3 years. It has a capacitive touch screen and an active digitizer screen for the pen. Both have to poll all the time unless you shut them off.
I mentioned the resistive tech as a comparison point. I know the Surface is capacitive. So, that polling indeed has a power draw. But is it significant ?
I did my own battery test using a more realistic scenario for a Surface Pro user. Not just playing video or browsing the web -- you can do that with a regular tablet -- but doing Microsoft Office continuously with a little web browsing and music mixed in.
I did the test a few days after I bought the SP2 and saw seven hours, almost exactly.
I don't know when this update arrived, but I will say that the battery life seems even better than when I first got it! I used to carry a charger around with my SP1, but I don't even bother anymore.
SP2 has all-day battery life as far as I'm concerned.
Is not really weird that Surface Pro 2 is getting better battery in web browsing than Surface 2? Isn't that anomaly worth some investigation or a short article to explain how can it be? Or is it normal?
Do you test video using a desktop player or the video metro app? The video metro app uses a different pipeline and could have significantly different characteristics.
it also might be worth drag-to-top closing everything but the video app (including the desktop)
It's great to see that MS is improving the product, but they dramatically limited its appeal by leaving telephony radios off of it (especially 4G data).
I finally have some statistics on the #1 most wanted feature that users want in a mini-tablet:
- SD card reader - 26% of users with 9042 votes
- Phone functionality - 17% of users with 5912 votes
The poll was posted by Asus.
I doubt that the numbers would be much different for a full sized tablet.
Those two features are very much under-represented in the market offerings that exist today for phones, tablets, convertibles, and notebooks.
Limiting appeal by leaving built in cellular modems that are solely sourced to a provider?
Let me plug in my own via USB (yes, they do exist - except not much of a hoopla because most tablet form factors forego an actual USB port and requisite driver options) and have that as an option instead. That way, I can change modems depending on the situation and have a lower cost device that potentially does not need to be bound by a contract upon device purchase.
"... built in cellular modems that are solely sourced to a provider?"
No. Telephony radios that are compatible with Micro-SIM card slots are the standard. Unlocked is largely the global standard (except for the USA - why we cannot break that addiction I just don't know).
The best way to avoid trouble (read: onerous restrictions) is avoid buying any device from your telecom.
USB plug-in modem sticks: I've tried them on laptops. Workable, but awkward by comparison to a Micro-SIM slot. There is the physical breakage risk issue and the dodgy drivers that always seem to trash some other basic functionality (like proper shutdown of the machine it's plugged into).
Much better to have an OEM validated solution.
Again, I'm glad to see MS in the game and improving the product. More battery life is always important.
But, Apple isn't the real competition. Sammy is. The sooner that MS realizes that, then the sooner they will know what to do to fully compete (as in fully equip the devices, especially the flagships).
Tablets weren't just a revolution in down-sizing our computing devices. They were a revolution in how far we will carry them and how often we will open them up and use them in places we would rarely open up and use a laptop.
Mobile devices were meant to be able to be slung around, tossed on dashboards, flipped open and used at the smallest of whims... and keep ticking. That means full functionality. That means autonomy.
Cutting your flagship product off from having its own data connection doesn't seem wise at all. Battery life - no matter how good - isn't going to help solve that problem. But, adding telephony radios will.
"Mobile devices were meant to be able to be slung around, tossed on dashboards, flipped open and used at the smallest of whims... and keep ticking. That means full functionality. That means autonomy."
By that definition, my Surface Pro 2 already can do this. There isn't a need for constant internet, and if I did had cellular service with a SIM card accepting modem, data plans will be exuberantly expensive.
And it is another device to add into the cost of an offered model - which Microsoft needs to add another configuration model that may change the costs overall for manufacturing and design. Another SKU to market, make, and support. They already have four with the Pro 2. Fitting in and redesigning the board within the turnaround time of the first Surface Pro 1 to now would delay the Pro 2 even further (from electronics validation to FCC regulatory validation)
I take this current compromise. When in a city or town, I can find a Wifi spot. If I am out in a remote wilderness area, I rarely am able to get cellular coverage anyways, making a built in cellular modem worthless. Many people tether their phone as a Wifi hotspot, making another modem in a tablet or laptop even more pointless.
Wow. I wasn't aware that Nokia was ready to throw so many rules out the window all at once... in a very, very good way. Nokia is still slightly short of Samsung, but the 2520 could be getting close enough to give the Note series a bit of a haircut.
Missing in Action: 8" Version / 1600P Display / 1080P-60fps Video Recording / HD-Audio / Native Voice Telephony / SMS Messaging / Dual-SIMs / WiFi-AC / Micro-SDXC Slot (for 64GB expandable storage card) / Tool-Less Removable Back Cover / User Removable Battery / FLAC Lossless Audio File Support / Variety of Small Apps
Purely Irritating: Nokia is still referring to storage as 'memory.' Can we let that notion go already? It's local storage.
Still very, very good. I could see how this would fit the needs of many people, but it seems like it will be fairly dependent on the cloud due to the maximum of 64GB storage being marginal for a flagship device (it has 32GB internal NAND storage and 32GB Micro-SD?HC expandable internal storage slot).
The Apple Air 128GB would provide more internal storage, albeit at $1000.
However, I think the more likely competition is the Samsung Note 10.1 (2014), which will also allow 128GB (64GB + 64GB). It's not quite perfection, but it plugs more holes in the lineup of features and capabilities than the 2520 or Air.
As far as software goes, for many people this fight could come down to Android versus Office (yes, I'm aware that's an OS fighting an office suite, but that's where the chips fall).
For me, if Samsung and Nokia deliver at around the same time, I'll be buying the Samsung. I wouldn't be able to pass up the tried and true higher capacity Micro-SDXC expandable storage, 1600P display, 60-fps video recording, FLAC Lossless Audio File Support, WiFi-AC, and more apps.
But, I wouldn't be heartbroken with the Nokia either.
I think you are right. I imagine that there are other media players that can do it too.
But, WMP on PCs can't do it unless you download third party codecs. In my opinion, those codecs aren't as well validated and as stable as native codecs.
Blackberry devices on OS10, and Samsung devices on Android, have FLAC codecs baked in so that the default media players automatically recognize and play FLACs.
WindowsPhone devices are particularly crippled in this regard since there are no third party FLAC codecs and only one (crummy) third party media player that supports FLAC.
I'm not expecting that RT will be much better.
I think Windows has some more work to do on the ecosystem. They act a little too much like Apple on these types of issues and try to force you into using only their proprietary (Microsoft) file formats.
It would be better if Microsoft gave you a choice between using their file formats or open file formats.
I've read that the same problem exists for mkv (high quality) video file formats.
So this isn't an isolated case, but rather is a symptom of Microsoft's stubbornness in trying to push its proprietary formats.
Then, might as well reevaluate your reasons for using the Surface Pro and Pro 2, because the battery-less pressure pen and multi-touch is what makes the device as versatile and standout alongside both desktop and touch environments working together - consolidating devices and reducing that number.
The battery life is a great improvement in the Pro 2 for what it does already that the Pro 1 is able. Nice to know that it is a bit better. My Pro 2 did an extensive update Wednesday.
I'm again impressed at the battery life of Shield. I know it's not a tablet, the screen is small and the format is different from all else. But Nvidia achieved some pretty high perf/battery numbers!
8 hours is pretty much all day battery life as far as most people are concerned.
Once you cross that 8-10 hr threshold, it sort of reaches a point of diminishing returns for people as most will charge their devices overnight. Also, the fact that the SP2 can recharge fully in 2 hours flat makes this all even better.
The SP2 is truly one of the most versatile devices ever built.
The very first sentence of the article reads thusly:
"Shortly after general availability of the Surface Pro 2, Microsoft pushed out a firmware update that allowed the Marvell WiFi solution to drive down to even lower power states."
So this has nothing to do with optimizing for Intel silicon.
That is a pretty impressive gain from a firmware patch. I'm really torn I want a Windows tablet, but I'm just not sure which to get. I love both the Surface 2 and pro, I also like those bay trails running full Windows 8.1 as well. My only consern with the Pro is how well it will do in full tablet mode most of the time I am thinking the Surface 2 might be better. I wish the Surface 2 had nVidia Streaming tech to play some Civ5 from my Home PC.
Am interested in the SP2 256GB version but seems that it is OOS everywhere? There wasn't even an expected date on the MS store website. Anyone have news on availability?
It is a mistake to by Microsoft Product these days. Let me share my story. Recently I made the decision to update my technology, and after lots of research came to the conclusion that the best thing for my needs was to buy a Surface Pro 2. The thought was I could buy a system that would act like a tablet (a large and heavy one, but still a tablet), laptop, and desktop computer depending on my varied needs. I thought I could use the docking station (with my wireless keyboard and large monitor) when at home to use full applications (like Office, Adobe ect.), attach type cover 2 when I needed laptop functions, and use the tablet to surf on the couch or read articles leisurely on the web. I could even use the tablet to watch movies on a plane or when working out. Sounded like a real good solution to me. Frankly I didn’t mind the fact it cost significantly more than other products as long as it could take care of all of my needs. As an aside, I have a long history of using Microsoft products all the way back to DOS. I have invested many hours becoming an expert at PowerPoint, Word, Excel, and have lived through the many iterations of Windows. In fact I have been a long term shareholder of Microsoft and thought they may have found their way back. The Surface Pro 2 would help them use the legacy advantages they have established over a long period of time. In short I was rooting for Microsoft. Now to my experience. I ordered a Surface Pro 2, Type Cover 2, Office 365, Docking Station, and VGA Adopter (for use when giving presentations on the road). Spent a good deal of time researching just what I needed. 8 gigs of Ram, 256 gigs on the hard drive, and a bonus of 200 gigs of storage on Microsoft’s cloud. Hell, if I got a Windows phone everything would sync without me having to do much of anything. I could access all my files wherever I was and on whatever device I was using. Finally someone gets it! It cost me almost $2000 for this outfit, but it would be worth it if it worked as advertised. I would be able to use my legacy knowledge, all my files, and it would tie me in to Microsoft for a long time to come. Boy was I wrong! When everything was delivered I was excited about spending the time to get everything set up just right. I started moving my files to “SkyDrive”, started to configure Windows 8.1 just like I wanted and it seemed like I finally found what I was looking for. I was ok with the fact that the Windows App store was a little light on usable applications and was sure they would catch up with Apple, Google, and Amazon in the near future. First issue was that my Surface would not fit flush in to the Docking Station. The Video prong on the right side of the Docking Station would not fit into the Surface Pro 2. Thus the 5 power tines just above it would not line up and it would not be able charge. I immediately called Microsoft support and explained the issue to the technician (Kaleb with a “K”). After I spent all kinds of time defending the fact I was not an idiot and was fully capable of placing the Surface correctly in to the Docking Station, he said he wasn’t sure if it was a defective Surface, or a defective Docking Station. He told me he would set up an appointment at the closest Microsoft store and assured me he would get me up and running ASAP. He kept me on the telephone while he made an appointment for me the next day at the store at 11 am. I did tell him I had been to the store previously when researching and had not found them particularly helpful. The store was Washington Square Mall in Beaverton Oregon, right in the backyard of Microsoft. In my previous visit they told me all their products were “sold out” and that in fact the Docking Station was not even released yet. Funny thing was that when I researched the Docking Stations, they were all over the internet and I ended up purchasing one at “Best Buy” online. Kaleb assured me I would be taken care of and not to worry because he had spoken to them on the phone and had everything set up. Gave me the case number to reference ( the whole nine yards). I showed up at the store 10 minutes early and saw the 4 reps working there standing around with only one customer there. I stood there for a few minutes before one of them finally came over to me and asked me if I needed help. I explained why I was here and told him I had an appointment at 11 as referenced by Kaleb’s call to them. The rep immediately told me there were no technicians there and I should come back at another time. I told him I had an appointment and referenced Kaleb’s call and case number. He told me I must be mistaken and that he (Kaleb) probably made the appointment at the Pioneer Square store in downtown Portland. I responded that I was sure he made it at the Washington Square store. I told him that my Surface Pro 2 did not fit in to the Docking Station. He told me that the Docking Station was not released yet and he could not help me. Funny thing is that I had the Docking Station with me. In addition the VGA Adopter only works with the Surface RT and does not work with the Surface Pro 2. He told me there was nothing he could do to help me. Walking back through the mall I passed by the Apple Store and saw it filled with engaged customers and service reps. They all seem to be pretty happy. I have sent my Surface Pro 2, Docking Station, Type 2 cover, Office 365 , and the VGA Adopter all back. I can’t invest any more time in a platform and company that doesn’t care about its customers. Great companies start with their “customers” and work backwards. It doesn’t matter what your strategy is, if you don’t take care of and listen to your customers, you are bound to fail. I am sure my experience is not unique. I will be selling my shares and am sure Microsoft is going to become irrelevant in the future!
I can only sympathise with BobBrewster (comment 8th January). I am an Australian so for us it is much harder to access any service from Microsoft. I bought a Surface Pro 2 in December 2013 . Overall I am quite happy with it and use it both as a tablet and laptop , for work and pleasure. However I cannot believe that after they stuffed up with the December firmware (which I dully installed and then my surface started to start by itself at night and drain the battery not to mention the fan noise which initially made me think that I have a water pipe broken in the house) Microsoft does not have the decency to explain what happened, suggest some interim solutions and tell us when are they going to fix the problem!!! Their robotic answer that they work on the issue is just a sign of our ultra politically correct times if a big company like this can treat their customers like total idiots and morons. Personally I changed the settings so there is no sleep mode now and when I push the button the surface goes to shutdown. It restart reasonably quickly so no big loss. However I also notice that the Type cover stops responding by itself from time to time , as well as the home touch button at the bottom of the screen. I also had two iPads before and I must admit that despite hating Apple for all their restrictions (no USB, no memory slot etc), it was always a breeze to use their devices.
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sri_tech - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Wow. That's nice improvement with FW update.8.3 hours battery life for Web browsing is very good for a core i5 tablet with FULL HD display in my opinion.
Also 7.7 hours of Video playback is not bad either.
ddriver - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
I think this review is lamish to say the least without at least throwing a few performance figures to determine any potential "side effects" which may be the actual cause of the extra battery life. I won't be surprised to see downclocking at play, and a bit of manipulation and customer deception - MS launches the surface 2 at higher clocks to be benchmarked and claim performance figures and later issues a frequency lowering firmware to present better battery life figures without updating the performance figures and keeping the higher ones.aruisdante - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
These benchmarks are a fixed workload. Downclocking the CPU would actually significantly WORSEN battery life because the CPU would never return to an idle state.In addition, with the way modern CPU's do dynamic range of performance via Turbo, there is no need for a 'review special' frequency. The CPU is always capable of selecting the most efficient clockspeed for the workload at hand. Haswell can literally adjust it's frequency from 600MHz to it's fully rated speed in 100MHz increments, and does so during real world workloads. The reason you still see games like benchmark boosting in Cell phones is because they typically only have two or three power states (off, low, high), not 20-30.
teiglin - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Neither of your points is accurate. First, the highest turbo state isn't necessarily the most power-efficient--this is easily demonstrated by the fact that ULV i7s usually get worse battery life in fixed-workload tests than i5s despite the better binning (see Anand's MBA tests from earlier this year, for example). While it's not true that lower clocks increase efficiency, the higher voltage needed at higher frequencies does not always justify itself from a total power perspective. There's probably a sweet spot that depends both on workload and voltage bin of the particular CPU.You also don't seen to understand how smartphone DVFS works. Some ARM SoCs have less-granular frequency stepping than 100MHz, but not all--I've seen as few as four-ish from 300MHz-1.2GHz in OMAP4, while the APQ8064T in my One has about 13 steps from 386MHz-1.7GHz. The reason benchmark boosting is effective is that the SoC frequency is controlled by software, so the stepping is incredibly slow. The algorithms that control the SoC frequency usually poll the workload every 10-100ms, meaning tens or even hundreds of millions of cycles can pass at a lower frequency before the software will ramp up frequency to respond to an increase (or decrease) in workload. By contrast, Intel CPUs handle this stepping in hardware, meaning that it's much faster--though I don't know the numbers offhand.
aruisdante - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
I never said max speed was most power efficient. I said there is no point in doing a 'benchmark special' speed because you can just make that the max turbo bin and use it when appropriate. So there isn't any 'gaming' of the system going on. This is the whole reason Anand runs varying workloads for the more in depth battery life reviews; one for a 'light' workload, one for a 'heavy' workload, and one for a 'maximum' workload.The whole point of pushing dynamic range for power states in CPU's is so that you don't have to make the tradeoff between high performance and great battery life
stacey94 - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
My Nexus 4 has about 12 steps between 384 MHz and 1512 MHz and dynamically hotplugs cores depending on load as well.I've heard that Apple's chips don't even have "steps." Instead they dynamically calculate the best frequency and set it.
I'm sure mobile governors are better than notebook ones as well, since power consumption is a much bigger concern.
Egg - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Brian and Anand have repeatedly complained about the relative performance of smartphone software DVFS compared to Intel and AMD's implementations.B3an - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
MS really should have had this firmware on release, even if it meant delaying SP2 for a short while. Now all the reviews for SP2 are out with less battery life and probably lower scores/recommendations because of it. Stupid.Cogman - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
Well, it was a marvel firmware problem. My guess is that MS put the screws on them to get it fixed ASAP, but, unfortunately there is no way in the software/hardware world to know how long it will take for some issue to be fixed. They probably expected that it would take several months to be fix, but happily, it only took 1.blackjok - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
ARM SoCs seem always perform better on video playback tests - maybe their video decoder/player block are good at offloading the CPU block, so CPU cores can tgo deeper sleep. When started searching other Intel machines to verify my theory, I surprisingly found no other reviews of intel-based stuff showing video playback scores -- not with MBA, not with VAIO, not with other recent articles unless I missed. Surface Pro 1 & 2 are the only ones Anand borthered to run those tests.He must love the Surfaces, or hate them, very much :-)
mkozakewich - Tuesday, November 5, 2013 - link
The biggest gripe I have with basically every Surface Pro review is that they don't bother comparing it with other ultrabooks. That's its category, frankly.Weird halfway-between devices like this should be compared to both categories for a real look at it, because that's what they're intended for, so at least we've got these mobile comparisons. It's really important to know if a device like this is worse at everything, or competitive in one category while falling short in another.
Another fact worth pointing out is that a Surface Pro 2 with Battery Cover should get about 14.28 hours in their web browsing test.
eallan - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
That's a great improvement for being out a couple weeks.nerd1 - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Now the surface 2 pro became a quite practical device. I've found sony and dell's offering are not quite good (just as expensive, has worse build and worse pen) so maybe I'll end up getting surface 2 pro.erikiksaz - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
I wonder when they pushed the update. I feel like I've been getting about eight hours on my SP2 since I've gotten it.althaz - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
As a rule, generally real-life battery is better than tested battery - at least that's been my experience. It's more important to be consistent and fairly accurate than constantly improve to get a more accurate test and have no consistency.fronkhead - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Same here, I remember downloading the firmware update on the day after launch (Wednesday)teiglin - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
I'd love to see the desktop battery life test results on Surface Pro. I think for most people, the desktop usage model is more realistic than the tablet one. Not to mention it's awkward reading the battery efficiency chart without surface in a surface article. :PAngryNil - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
This is interesting. That battery life seems good to me, so just looking forward to a slimmed down chassis in SP3.GTRagnarok - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Whatever it is Sony's doing, everyone else needs to copy them.Klimax - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
I suspect they got all drivers in order. (Like support for Timer coalescing and such.) Also chose right chips for it.Silma - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Don't the Sony benchmarks show that battery life is to a large extent more dependent on the hardware than the O.S? What makes the Sony so much better? Much better batteries & a much power efficient screen?Klimax - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Drivers and components. Most of OEMs don't put such emphasis on it and thus we see such disparity.Silma - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Anyways kudos to the Surface team this is a big win for SP2 users.Even if battery benchmarks only go so far.
I'm typing this post on a brand-new Surface 2 & did super intensive things such as import more than 2gb of outlook files & index them, replicate GBs of Skydiver files, setup apps & download & install all windows updates. Play a few HD movies and listen to Xbox music (btw sound is so shockingly loud for such a small device that I'm heavily lowering it, granted in a silent environment). The battery gauge shows 50%, fingers crossed!
sorten - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Those are very impressive gains in battery life. I can't wait for the SP3 running on Broadwell. For now I have bought the Dell Venue Pro 8.davepermen - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
if only they had that fix prior to all the reviewers.. but good news anyways.dhenke - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Where can I download this firmware update? I did a windows update check and it didn't find anything. And I did a Google search and nothing came up.frostyfiredude - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
You may already have it, I believe it came out the 23rd if memory serves. Idle battery life estimates went from 10 to 13 hours overnight I found, which makes sense looking at the changes seen above.ananduser - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
It would have been nice if you had tested the Pro as an ultrabook as well(performance wise and battery wise - light/medium/heavy), since practically being one, and not just as a tablet.I am curious...do an active digitizer and a capacitive multitouch capability add to the power draw of the device even when NOT in use ? I always thought that a resistive touchscreen is passive while a capacitive one has an added idle power draw. What say you Anand ?
Death666Angel - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
There is nothing resistive about the touch screens used in the Surface Pro 2 or any current tablet/smartphone in the last ~3 years. It has a capacitive touch screen and an active digitizer screen for the pen. Both have to poll all the time unless you shut them off.ananduser - Sunday, November 3, 2013 - link
I mentioned the resistive tech as a comparison point. I know the Surface is capacitive. So, that polling indeed has a power draw. But is it significant ?mtalinm - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
I did my own battery test using a more realistic scenario for a Surface Pro user. Not just playing video or browsing the web -- you can do that with a regular tablet -- but doing Microsoft Office continuously with a little web browsing and music mixed in.I did the test a few days after I bought the SP2 and saw seven hours, almost exactly.
I don't know when this update arrived, but I will say that the battery life seems even better than when I first got it! I used to carry a charger around with my SP1, but I don't even bother anymore.
SP2 has all-day battery life as far as I'm concerned.
MarcSP - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Is not really weird that Surface Pro 2 is getting better battery in web browsing than Surface 2? Isn't that anomaly worth some investigation or a short article to explain how can it be? Or is it normal?bountygiver - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
Maybe ARM CPUs are not that power efficient when it comes to running a desktop-standard web browser.Krysto - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Are you sure Microsoft isn't cheating you in benchmarks somehow, Anand?PNN - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
How do you cheat on battery life?skiboysteve - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Do you test video using a desktop player or the video metro app? The video metro app uses a different pipeline and could have significantly different characteristics.it also might be worth drag-to-top closing everything but the video app (including the desktop)
hrrmph - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
It's great to see that MS is improving the product, but they dramatically limited its appeal by leaving telephony radios off of it (especially 4G data).I finally have some statistics on the #1 most wanted feature that users want in a mini-tablet:
- SD card reader - 26% of users with 9042 votes
- Phone functionality - 17% of users with 5912 votes
The poll was posted by Asus.
I doubt that the numbers would be much different for a full sized tablet.
Those two features are very much under-represented in the market offerings that exist today for phones, tablets, convertibles, and notebooks.
Imaginer - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Limiting appeal by leaving built in cellular modems that are solely sourced to a provider?Let me plug in my own via USB (yes, they do exist - except not much of a hoopla because most tablet form factors forego an actual USB port and requisite driver options) and have that as an option instead. That way, I can change modems depending on the situation and have a lower cost device that potentially does not need to be bound by a contract upon device purchase.
hrrmph - Sunday, November 3, 2013 - link
"... built in cellular modems that are solely sourced to a provider?"No. Telephony radios that are compatible with Micro-SIM card slots are the standard. Unlocked is largely the global standard (except for the USA - why we cannot break that addiction I just don't know).
The best way to avoid trouble (read: onerous restrictions) is avoid buying any device from your telecom.
USB plug-in modem sticks: I've tried them on laptops. Workable, but awkward by comparison to a Micro-SIM slot. There is the physical breakage risk issue and the dodgy drivers that always seem to trash some other basic functionality (like proper shutdown of the machine it's plugged into).
Much better to have an OEM validated solution.
Again, I'm glad to see MS in the game and improving the product. More battery life is always important.
But, Apple isn't the real competition. Sammy is. The sooner that MS realizes that, then the sooner they will know what to do to fully compete (as in fully equip the devices, especially the flagships).
Tablets weren't just a revolution in down-sizing our computing devices. They were a revolution in how far we will carry them and how often we will open them up and use them in places we would rarely open up and use a laptop.
Mobile devices were meant to be able to be slung around, tossed on dashboards, flipped open and used at the smallest of whims... and keep ticking. That means full functionality. That means autonomy.
Cutting your flagship product off from having its own data connection doesn't seem wise at all. Battery life - no matter how good - isn't going to help solve that problem. But, adding telephony radios will.
Imaginer - Sunday, November 3, 2013 - link
"Mobile devices were meant to be able to be slung around, tossed on dashboards, flipped open and used at the smallest of whims... and keep ticking. That means full functionality. That means autonomy."By that definition, my Surface Pro 2 already can do this. There isn't a need for constant internet, and if I did had cellular service with a SIM card accepting modem, data plans will be exuberantly expensive.
And it is another device to add into the cost of an offered model - which Microsoft needs to add another configuration model that may change the costs overall for manufacturing and design. Another SKU to market, make, and support. They already have four with the Pro 2. Fitting in and redesigning the board within the turnaround time of the first Surface Pro 1 to now would delay the Pro 2 even further (from electronics validation to FCC regulatory validation)
I take this current compromise. When in a city or town, I can find a Wifi spot. If I am out in a remote wilderness area, I rarely am able to get cellular coverage anyways, making a built in cellular modem worthless. Many people tether their phone as a Wifi hotspot, making another modem in a tablet or laptop even more pointless.
toraji - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Lumia 2520 😏hrrmph - Sunday, November 3, 2013 - link
"Lumia 2520"Wow. I wasn't aware that Nokia was ready to throw so many rules out the window all at once... in a very, very good way. Nokia is still slightly short of Samsung, but the 2520 could be getting close enough to give the Note series a bit of a haircut.
Honors: S800 / 1080P Display / 4G-Data / Unlocked / Micro-SIM Slot / GPS / BT 4.0 / Micro-SD?HC Slot (max 32GB expandable storage card) / USB 3.0
Missing in Action: 8" Version / 1600P Display / 1080P-60fps Video Recording / HD-Audio / Native Voice Telephony / SMS Messaging / Dual-SIMs / WiFi-AC / Micro-SDXC Slot (for 64GB expandable storage card) / Tool-Less Removable Back Cover / User Removable Battery / FLAC Lossless Audio File Support / Variety of Small Apps
Purely Irritating: Nokia is still referring to storage as 'memory.' Can we let that notion go already? It's local storage.
Still very, very good. I could see how this would fit the needs of many people, but it seems like it will be fairly dependent on the cloud due to the maximum of 64GB storage being marginal for a flagship device (it has 32GB internal NAND storage and 32GB Micro-SD?HC expandable internal storage slot).
The Apple Air 128GB would provide more internal storage, albeit at $1000.
However, I think the more likely competition is the Samsung Note 10.1 (2014), which will also allow 128GB (64GB + 64GB). It's not quite perfection, but it plugs more holes in the lineup of features and capabilities than the 2520 or Air.
As far as software goes, for many people this fight could come down to Android versus Office (yes, I'm aware that's an OS fighting an office suite, but that's where the chips fall).
For me, if Samsung and Nokia deliver at around the same time, I'll be buying the Samsung. I wouldn't be able to pass up the tried and true higher capacity Micro-SDXC expandable storage, 1600P display, 60-fps video recording, FLAC Lossless Audio File Support, WiFi-AC, and more apps.
But, I wouldn't be heartbroken with the Nokia either.
hrrmph - Sunday, November 3, 2013 - link
Meant the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 LTE (2014).bountygiver - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
I think you can play flac in windows RT with MediaMonkey, that app supports ARM CPU and it is playing flac without problems for me.hrrmph - Thursday, November 7, 2013 - link
I think you are right. I imagine that there are other media players that can do it too.But, WMP on PCs can't do it unless you download third party codecs. In my opinion, those codecs aren't as well validated and as stable as native codecs.
Blackberry devices on OS10, and Samsung devices on Android, have FLAC codecs baked in so that the default media players automatically recognize and play FLACs.
WindowsPhone devices are particularly crippled in this regard since there are no third party FLAC codecs and only one (crummy) third party media player that supports FLAC.
I'm not expecting that RT will be much better.
I think Windows has some more work to do on the ecosystem. They act a little too much like Apple on these types of issues and try to force you into using only their proprietary (Microsoft) file formats.
It would be better if Microsoft gave you a choice between using their file formats or open file formats.
I've read that the same problem exists for mkv (high quality) video file formats.
So this isn't an isolated case, but rather is a symptom of Microsoft's stubbornness in trying to push its proprietary formats.
dotMorten - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
So are you saying that if you disable touch and pen, you can increase battery even more? If could be an interesting test to makeImaginer - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Then, might as well reevaluate your reasons for using the Surface Pro and Pro 2, because the battery-less pressure pen and multi-touch is what makes the device as versatile and standout alongside both desktop and touch environments working together - consolidating devices and reducing that number.The battery life is a great improvement in the Pro 2 for what it does already that the Pro 1 is able. Nice to know that it is a bit better. My Pro 2 did an extensive update Wednesday.
marc1000 - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
I'm again impressed at the battery life of Shield. I know it's not a tablet, the screen is small and the format is different from all else. But Nvidia achieved some pretty high perf/battery numbers!chuck232 - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
Not sure if the Web Browsing tablet scenario is at all comparable to the Light Normalized PC one, but:8.33 hours = 499.8 minutes
Surface Pro 2 battery capacity = 42Wh
Normalized: 499.8/42 = 11.9min/Wh
Seems pretty close to the MBA 13.
OneOfTheseDays - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
8 hours is pretty much all day battery life as far as most people are concerned.Once you cross that 8-10 hr threshold, it sort of reaches a point of diminishing returns for people as most will charge their devices overnight. Also, the fact that the SP2 can recharge fully in 2 hours flat makes this all even better.
The SP2 is truly one of the most versatile devices ever built.
meacupla - Saturday, November 2, 2013 - link
So... Intel takes 3 steps forward and then all non-intel parts take 2 steps backwards?kyuu - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
The very first sentence of the article reads thusly:"Shortly after general availability of the Surface Pro 2, Microsoft pushed out a firmware update that allowed the Marvell WiFi solution to drive down to even lower power states."
So this has nothing to do with optimizing for Intel silicon.
[email protected] - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
i wonder if the same update apply to surface Pro 1 ...perhaps just a driver download away?
bountygiver - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
If SP1 need this fix, the best we'll be able to squeeze less than 30 minutes from it. But it is better than nothing right?[email protected] - Saturday, November 9, 2013 - link
Right. Anything is better than nothing... fingers Crossed.SpartanJet - Monday, November 4, 2013 - link
That is a pretty impressive gain from a firmware patch. I'm really torn I want a Windows tablet, but I'm just not sure which to get. I love both the Surface 2 and pro, I also like those bay trails running full Windows 8.1 as well. My only consern with the Pro is how well it will do in full tablet mode most of the time I am thinking the Surface 2 might be better. I wish the Surface 2 had nVidia Streaming tech to play some Civ5 from my Home PC.yuchai - Tuesday, November 5, 2013 - link
Am interested in the SP2 256GB version but seems that it is OOS everywhere? There wasn't even an expected date on the MS store website. Anyone have news on availability?Dungeon Shredder - Tuesday, November 5, 2013 - link
can get one on ebay for 1600-1700 256 versionyeah i'm not gonna do that guess i'll have to wait till after christmas to maybe get one
Dungeon Shredder - Tuesday, November 5, 2013 - link
looks like the second pre-order is now sold outMrPetya19 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link
The video playback test was made with full brightness?BobBrewster - Wednesday, January 8, 2014 - link
Microsoft Just Doesn’t Get It!It is a mistake to by Microsoft Product these days. Let me share my story.
Recently I made the decision to update my technology, and after lots of research came to the conclusion that the best thing for my needs was to buy a Surface Pro 2. The thought was I could buy a system that would act like a tablet (a large and heavy one, but still a tablet), laptop, and desktop computer depending on my varied needs. I thought I could use the docking station (with my wireless keyboard and large monitor) when at home to use full applications (like Office, Adobe ect.), attach type cover 2 when I needed laptop functions, and use the tablet to surf on the couch or read articles leisurely on the web. I could even use the tablet to watch movies on a plane or when working out. Sounded like a real good solution to me. Frankly I didn’t mind the fact it cost significantly more than other products as long as it could take care of all of my needs.
As an aside, I have a long history of using Microsoft products all the way back to DOS. I have invested many hours becoming an expert at PowerPoint, Word, Excel, and have lived through the many iterations of Windows. In fact I have been a long term shareholder of Microsoft and thought they may have found their way back. The Surface Pro 2 would help them use the legacy advantages they have established over a long period of time. In short I was rooting for Microsoft.
Now to my experience. I ordered a Surface Pro 2, Type Cover 2, Office 365, Docking Station, and VGA Adopter (for use when giving presentations on the road). Spent a good deal of time researching just what I needed. 8 gigs of Ram, 256 gigs on the hard drive, and a bonus of 200 gigs of storage on Microsoft’s cloud. Hell, if I got a Windows phone everything would sync without me having to do much of anything. I could access all my files wherever I was and on whatever device I was using. Finally someone gets it! It cost me almost $2000 for this outfit, but it would be worth it if it worked as advertised. I would be able to use my legacy knowledge, all my files, and it would tie me in to Microsoft for a long time to come.
Boy was I wrong! When everything was delivered I was excited about spending the time to get everything set up just right. I started moving my files to “SkyDrive”, started to configure Windows 8.1 just like I wanted and it seemed like I finally found what I was looking for. I was ok with the fact that the Windows App store was a little light on usable applications and was sure they would catch up with Apple, Google, and Amazon in the near future. First issue was that my Surface would not fit flush in to the Docking Station. The Video prong on the right side of the Docking Station would not fit into the Surface Pro 2. Thus the 5 power tines just above it would not line up and it would not be able charge. I immediately called Microsoft support and explained the issue to the technician (Kaleb with a “K”). After I spent all kinds of time defending the fact I was not an idiot and was fully capable of placing the Surface correctly in to the Docking Station, he said he wasn’t sure if it was a defective Surface, or a defective Docking Station. He told me he would set up an appointment at the closest Microsoft store and assured me he would get me up and running ASAP. He kept me on the telephone while he made an appointment for me the next day at the store at 11 am. I did tell him I had been to the store previously when researching and had not found them particularly helpful. The store was Washington Square Mall in Beaverton Oregon, right in the backyard of Microsoft. In my previous visit they told me all their products were “sold out” and that in fact the Docking Station was not even released yet. Funny thing was that when I researched the Docking Stations, they were all over the internet and I ended up purchasing one at “Best Buy” online.
Kaleb assured me I would be taken care of and not to worry because he had spoken to them on the phone and had everything set up. Gave me the case number to reference ( the whole nine yards). I showed up at the store 10 minutes early and saw the 4 reps working there standing around with only one customer there. I stood there for a few minutes before one of them finally came over to me and asked me if I needed help. I explained why I was here and told him I had an appointment at 11 as referenced by Kaleb’s call to them. The rep immediately told me there were no technicians there and I should come back at another time. I told him I had an appointment and referenced Kaleb’s call and case number. He told me I must be mistaken and that he (Kaleb) probably made the appointment at the Pioneer Square store in downtown Portland. I responded that I was sure he made it at the Washington Square store. I told him that my Surface Pro 2 did not fit in to the Docking Station. He told me that the Docking Station was not released yet and he could not help me. Funny thing is that I had the Docking Station with me. In addition the VGA Adopter only works with the Surface RT and does not work with the Surface Pro 2. He told me there was nothing he could do to help me.
Walking back through the mall I passed by the Apple Store and saw it filled with engaged customers and service reps. They all seem to be pretty happy.
I have sent my Surface Pro 2, Docking Station, Type 2 cover, Office 365 , and the VGA Adopter all back. I can’t invest any more time in a platform and company that doesn’t care about its customers. Great companies start with their “customers” and work backwards. It doesn’t matter what your strategy is, if you don’t take care of and listen to your customers, you are bound to fail. I am sure my experience is not unique.
I will be selling my shares and am sure Microsoft is going to become irrelevant in the future!
danul - Friday, January 17, 2014 - link
I can only sympathise with BobBrewster (comment 8th January). I am an Australian so for us it is much harder to access any service from Microsoft. I bought a Surface Pro 2 in December 2013 . Overall I am quite happy with it and use it both as a tablet and laptop , for work and pleasure. However I cannot believe that after they stuffed up with the December firmware (which I dully installed and then my surface started to start by itself at night and drain the battery not to mention the fan noise which initially made me think that I have a water pipe broken in the house) Microsoft does not have the decency to explain what happened, suggest some interim solutions and tell us when are they going to fix the problem!!! Their robotic answer that they work on the issue is just a sign of our ultra politically correct times if a big company like this can treat their customers like total idiots and morons. Personally I changed the settings so there is no sleep mode now and when I push the button the surface goes to shutdown. It restart reasonably quickly so no big loss. However I also notice that the Type cover stops responding by itself from time to time , as well as the home touch button at the bottom of the screen. I also had two iPads before and I must admit that despite hating Apple for all their restrictions (no USB, no memory slot etc), it was always a breeze to use their devices.