This wasn't suitable to put in the article itself, but for all the importance NVIDIA lavishes on the controller I'm rather dour on it.
The controller is effectively a PS3 DualShock 3 cross-bred with the Xbox 360 controller. The end result is the thumbstick placement of the DualShock 3 combined with a D-Pad that looks incredibly similar to the XBox 360's D-Pad, which may very well indicate that it's not a D-Pad at all but rather a very shallow hat switch/stick. The screen means this device is going to be top-heavy, but the thumbstick placement means that your middle fingers are going to be rather low on the device due to the low placement of the thumbs.
I suppose it depends on if we're talking about handhelds as in smartphones or in handhelds like the 3DS/PS Vita. The latter is almost identical, save for the fact that it has 1 row of shoulder buttons instead of 2 due to size.
In fact the quality of a controller is almost entirely down to size (D-Pads withstanding). Sony had to go bigger just to use their relatively small thumbsticks. You can get a true console controller, but it has to be console controller sized. This is clearly bigger than a 360 gamepad, so you're looking at something between that and the original Xbox "Duke" controller. it gives you plenty of space, but I doubt we're looking at something that has any hope of going into a pocket.
Was about to post that its a pity that it didn't copy Xbox's stick placement, as it makes more sense for the modern game. But on mobile games, where the control methods are often simpler, it does make sense for the d-pad to be in the more natural position.
This might also mean Nvidia start doing there 'The Way It's Meant To Played' scheme to android devs...this would certainly help combat the iOS centric development that currently happens.
Also given the relative failures and shrinking of the PSP/DS market, Project Shield might not be as pointless as it sounds.
I hope that the d-pad isn't like the terrible 360 d-pad!
One thing that I'm curious about is why the screen remains enabled when you're outputting to another source. I'm assuming that the screen will be a fairly decent drain on the battery (5 inch IPS probably at 720p), and it doesn't really make much sense to mirror the content. Maybe they could eventually pull a Nintendo and offer differing views like the Wii U?
I still argue that smartphones are the future for mobile gaming. It isn't an argument of better input methods, but rather what you have on you at the time. It doesn't matter if the Shield is better than my phone, I keep my phone on me almost 100% of the time. Frankly, it's more available. The one advantage that this does have is if you already own a Tegra-based device,and you've purchased Tegra-only game variants, those'll work great on this.
Have you actually used the machine? To me it seems like they could easily balance the moment from the LCD by positioning the batteries inside the controllers grip area, where there is a ton of space.
The thumbsticks dont look any lower than the Dualshock's placement, and most have no complaints about that.
The PSP was temporally viable, the PSPGo its successor was a failure due to a less lucrative placement in time. It is not just the benchmark-esque processing power of a mobile gaming device that garners its success, but its button layout, form factor,and most importantly its software level support, that will be prescient of its success in the market. Terga 4 is vastly adequate for mobile gaming from a technical standpoint, but that is not what yields a viable mobile gaming solution. As excited as I was for the PSP, I was equally disappointed by the the technically superior "go." Nvidia's software development is sufficient at best for its two market active desktop/mobile desktop architectures, and I anticipate this mobile sector will receive subsidiary support to that level of adequacy.
Let's not also forget that one of the big reasons that the PSPGo failed was due to the limited software library, high-priced games (UMD versions of games would get cheaper over time as retailers discounted older stock and had sales, download versions often ended up more expensive than the UMD versions), and the inability to use your existing PSP game library (Sony cancelled the UMD-to-download conversion program).
This console would seem to avoid many of these problems right off the bat. It's focusing on Android games, and mobile games are already fitting into a much lower price range (even Squenix's extremely expensive mobile games are a fraction the price of a PSP game), and it will let you bring your existing Android game library with you, assuming you're an Android user.
If they do intend to make a serious go at the mobile gaming console market, though, that would make them the only mobile console manufacturer who doesn't have any first-party games. That means that if they want any console-defining games (the kind that sell consoles), they'll have to pay some other developer for exclusivity to do it, and that kind of thing wouldn't be cheap.
nVidia is known for years of close relations and working with developers. LOL If this was AMD, we'd have problems and they could brag they use "email a lot", which they have. nVidia has 200+ engineers worldwide at developers all the time, amd "a handful", literally. nVidia has billions in the bank, amd billions in debt.
Beyond that, this streams your PC games to the device - now I can be in the workshop, on the couch, waiting for lunch in the kitchen, outside in the yard grilling, you name it, and I've got all my PC games at my fingertips, with STEAM working as well....
This thing is GREAT - I already want one. The sound is awesome, the lag is non existent, those who've had hands on are very positive.
Touchscreen, websurfing, tegrazone games, home PC streaming - LOL it's about time. TOUCHSCREEN - everything but a phone... awesome.
This doesn't look like a product intended to be successful, but rather one designed to be talked about. This is the sort of product that will only appeal to very few people, but as a promotional tool for the Tegra 4 and the nvidia brand in general, they've guaranteed that every tech site will be talking about them for weeks and months to come. Hopefully this will translate into better brand awareness and positive brand association. Nvidia has been trying hard to make the Tegra brand one that geeks ask for by name and recommend to their friends and family. This is just seems like one more step in that plan.
Regarding this console, I think it hits a lot of right notes, and it looks like the Tegra 4 may be around the power of current gen consoles, so there's a chance it could be a good console even without PC streaming. NVIDIA is good at working with developers, and I'm sure we'll see Tegra 4 specific titles, and titles taking full advantage of the Shield's controller.
The big question is the GPU. Tegra has always been decent in the CPU department, but a laughable joke (compared to the competition) in the GPU department. That has remained true for all three revisions of the product, always falling way behind the competition (ironic for a GPU company).
The real question about the Tegra 4 is going to be if they finally resolved the GPU performance issues. Tegra 3 currently benchmarks at 20-25% the performance of a PowerVR SGX554MP4, the fastest chip currently on the market. nVidia is claiming a 6x boost in performance, which would seem to put them, based on their claims, at 120-150% the performance of the current top performer. However, consider that such benchmarks (the "X times faster" from the manufacturer) and that the Tegra 4 isn't actually out yet (as in the other GPU vendors won't be standing still between now and then)...
The answer to the question of "Has nVidia finally produced a mobile GPU that has competitive performance" seems to be "possibly". Their target performance seems to say it would be competitive. Of course, the Tegra chips have always been sub-optimal in terms of power usage, so if all they've done is tweaked their existing GPU core and multiplied the core count by six, power usage might not be competitive.
This in nvidia, not some constant failure company like amd.
Tegra3 took on Apple's exclusive powerVR and matched it and often beat it in gaming, so blabbing about opengl render or some crap is useless, and 20-25 percent is a lie anyway. spin spin spin spin
Real life: " In actual life terms, Nvidia says it'll be the difference between two seconds of rendering on the iPhone and 0.2 seconds on a Tegra 4-powered mobile camera. "
Wish we could have it as a handheld WITHOUT the screen, so we could utilise its streaming capability without the added cost of a screen some of us won't find a good use for..
There will be enough USB-stick Android devices with Tegra 4 out there for that purpose. :)
For me, this is interesting as a novelty thing, but looks too big as a portable (7" tablet with bluetooth gamepad might be just as functional and cheaper or more versatile) and I am not that interested in Android games that need a controller on the go. As an at home console, sure, but I already have my tablet with mini-HDMI out for that. Still, more products can't hurt. :)
That's a mighty big battery in that thing. Makes me wonder just how efficient that SOC really is, or if maybe it's a high performance version that you won't see in ordinary tablets.
If they price this around $100.00 they will win the mobile gaming award of the century. They will have to compete with the Ouya and Gamestick. They might get away with $125.00. Anything higher I don't think will be viable.
I've got a websurfer, I've got all of Android, I've got portable gaming, I've got all my PC games at my fingertips. I've got bass reflex sound. I've got a touchscreen, I've got on board storage, I've got HDMI to my bigscreen.
I've got a console PLUS my entire PC in my hands.
Hello ? Another cheapo amd fanboy. Ask mommy for a present.
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Ryan Smith - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
This wasn't suitable to put in the article itself, but for all the importance NVIDIA lavishes on the controller I'm rather dour on it.The controller is effectively a PS3 DualShock 3 cross-bred with the Xbox 360 controller. The end result is the thumbstick placement of the DualShock 3 combined with a D-Pad that looks incredibly similar to the XBox 360's D-Pad, which may very well indicate that it's not a D-Pad at all but rather a very shallow hat switch/stick. The screen means this device is going to be top-heavy, but the thumbstick placement means that your middle fingers are going to be rather low on the device due to the low placement of the thumbs.
Dustin Sklavos - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
I'm still of the impression that the controller is going to be vastly superior to what handhelds enjoy today, though.I was really impressed by Project SHIELD, but they *need* to hit a competitive price point. Anything over $250 and they're SOL.
Ryan Smith - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
I suppose it depends on if we're talking about handhelds as in smartphones or in handhelds like the 3DS/PS Vita. The latter is almost identical, save for the fact that it has 1 row of shoulder buttons instead of 2 due to size.In fact the quality of a controller is almost entirely down to size (D-Pads withstanding). Sony had to go bigger just to use their relatively small thumbsticks. You can get a true console controller, but it has to be console controller sized. This is clearly bigger than a 360 gamepad, so you're looking at something between that and the original Xbox "Duke" controller. it gives you plenty of space, but I doubt we're looking at something that has any hope of going into a pocket.
Dustin Sklavos - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
I don't know, I see this as a Sega Nomad that doesn't suck.silverblue - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
Wow... talk about a (lukewarm) blast from the past.cjb110 - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
Was about to post that its a pity that it didn't copy Xbox's stick placement, as it makes more sense for the modern game. But on mobile games, where the control methods are often simpler, it does make sense for the d-pad to be in the more natural position.This might also mean Nvidia start doing there 'The Way It's Meant To Played' scheme to android devs...this would certainly help combat the iOS centric development that currently happens.
Also given the relative failures and shrinking of the PSP/DS market, Project Shield might not be as pointless as it sounds.
Aikouka - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
I hope that the d-pad isn't like the terrible 360 d-pad!One thing that I'm curious about is why the screen remains enabled when you're outputting to another source. I'm assuming that the screen will be a fairly decent drain on the battery (5 inch IPS probably at 720p), and it doesn't really make much sense to mirror the content. Maybe they could eventually pull a Nintendo and offer differing views like the Wii U?
I still argue that smartphones are the future for mobile gaming. It isn't an argument of better input methods, but rather what you have on you at the time. It doesn't matter if the Shield is better than my phone, I keep my phone on me almost 100% of the time. Frankly, it's more available. The one advantage that this does have is if you already own a Tegra-based device,and you've purchased Tegra-only game variants, those'll work great on this.
CeriseCogburn - Monday, January 14, 2013 - link
Three 18650 li-ons inside. At 2400mah each or better.roltzje - Thursday, January 10, 2013 - link
Have you actually used the machine? To me it seems like they could easily balance the moment from the LCD by positioning the batteries inside the controllers grip area, where there is a ton of space.The thumbsticks dont look any lower than the Dualshock's placement, and most have no complaints about that.
schulmaster - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
The PSP was temporally viable, the PSPGo its successor was a failure due to a less lucrative placement in time. It is not just the benchmark-esque processing power of a mobile gaming device that garners its success, but its button layout, form factor,and most importantly its software level support, that will be prescient of its success in the market. Terga 4 is vastly adequate for mobile gaming from a technical standpoint, but that is not what yields a viable mobile gaming solution. As excited as I was for the PSP, I was equally disappointed by the the technically superior "go." Nvidia's software development is sufficient at best for its two market active desktop/mobile desktop architectures, and I anticipate this mobile sector will receive subsidiary support to that level of adequacy.Guspaz - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
Let's not also forget that one of the big reasons that the PSPGo failed was due to the limited software library, high-priced games (UMD versions of games would get cheaper over time as retailers discounted older stock and had sales, download versions often ended up more expensive than the UMD versions), and the inability to use your existing PSP game library (Sony cancelled the UMD-to-download conversion program).This console would seem to avoid many of these problems right off the bat. It's focusing on Android games, and mobile games are already fitting into a much lower price range (even Squenix's extremely expensive mobile games are a fraction the price of a PSP game), and it will let you bring your existing Android game library with you, assuming you're an Android user.
If they do intend to make a serious go at the mobile gaming console market, though, that would make them the only mobile console manufacturer who doesn't have any first-party games. That means that if they want any console-defining games (the kind that sell consoles), they'll have to pay some other developer for exclusivity to do it, and that kind of thing wouldn't be cheap.
CeriseCogburn - Monday, January 14, 2013 - link
nVidia is known for years of close relations and working with developers. LOLIf this was AMD, we'd have problems and they could brag they use "email a lot", which they have.
nVidia has 200+ engineers worldwide at developers all the time, amd "a handful", literally.
nVidia has billions in the bank, amd billions in debt.
Beyond that, this streams your PC games to the device - now I can be in the workshop, on the couch, waiting for lunch in the kitchen, outside in the yard grilling, you name it, and I've got all my PC games at my fingertips, with STEAM working as well....
This thing is GREAT - I already want one. The sound is awesome, the lag is non existent, those who've had hands on are very positive.
Touchscreen, websurfing, tegrazone games, home PC streaming - LOL it's about time.
TOUCHSCREEN - everything but a phone... awesome.
labrats5 - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
This doesn't look like a product intended to be successful, but rather one designed to be talked about. This is the sort of product that will only appeal to very few people, but as a promotional tool for the Tegra 4 and the nvidia brand in general, they've guaranteed that every tech site will be talking about them for weeks and months to come. Hopefully this will translate into better brand awareness and positive brand association. Nvidia has been trying hard to make the Tegra brand one that geeks ask for by name and recommend to their friends and family. This is just seems like one more step in that plan.CeriseCogburn - Monday, January 14, 2013 - link
It appeals to you.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxsNhySj1Ng
There's nothing to not like.
ET - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
I noticed this wrong piece of info in the table.Regarding this console, I think it hits a lot of right notes, and it looks like the Tegra 4 may be around the power of current gen consoles, so there's a chance it could be a good console even without PC streaming. NVIDIA is good at working with developers, and I'm sure we'll see Tegra 4 specific titles, and titles taking full advantage of the Shield's controller.
Guspaz - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
The big question is the GPU. Tegra has always been decent in the CPU department, but a laughable joke (compared to the competition) in the GPU department. That has remained true for all three revisions of the product, always falling way behind the competition (ironic for a GPU company).The real question about the Tegra 4 is going to be if they finally resolved the GPU performance issues. Tegra 3 currently benchmarks at 20-25% the performance of a PowerVR SGX554MP4, the fastest chip currently on the market. nVidia is claiming a 6x boost in performance, which would seem to put them, based on their claims, at 120-150% the performance of the current top performer. However, consider that such benchmarks (the "X times faster" from the manufacturer) and that the Tegra 4 isn't actually out yet (as in the other GPU vendors won't be standing still between now and then)...
The answer to the question of "Has nVidia finally produced a mobile GPU that has competitive performance" seems to be "possibly". Their target performance seems to say it would be competitive. Of course, the Tegra chips have always been sub-optimal in terms of power usage, so if all they've done is tweaked their existing GPU core and multiplied the core count by six, power usage might not be competitive.
CeriseCogburn - Monday, January 14, 2013 - link
There's no question anymore, people have had hands on. Leaks are a coming.http://www.chiphell.com/thread-616838-1-1.html
This in nvidia, not some constant failure company like amd.
Tegra3 took on Apple's exclusive powerVR and matched it and often beat it in gaming, so blabbing about opengl render or some crap is useless, and 20-25 percent is a lie anyway. spin spin spin spin
Real life: " In actual life terms, Nvidia says it'll be the difference between two seconds of rendering on the iPhone and 0.2 seconds on a Tegra 4-powered mobile camera. "
The chart here shows it beating ipad4 25 webpages load not by much - I'm not impressed by that..
http://gizmodo.com/5973635/the-tegra-4-is-here?tag...
That's the worst news I could find on it.
maximumGPU - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
Wish we could have it as a handheld WITHOUT the screen, so we could utilise its streaming capability without the added cost of a screen some of us won't find a good use for..Death666Angel - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
There will be enough USB-stick Android devices with Tegra 4 out there for that purpose. :)For me, this is interesting as a novelty thing, but looks too big as a portable (7" tablet with bluetooth gamepad might be just as functional and cheaper or more versatile) and I am not that interested in Android games that need a controller on the go. As an at home console, sure, but I already have my tablet with mini-HDMI out for that.
Still, more products can't hurt. :)
MonkeyPaw - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
That's a mighty big battery in that thing. Makes me wonder just how efficient that SOC really is, or if maybe it's a high performance version that you won't see in ordinary tablets.CeriseCogburn - Monday, January 14, 2013 - link
Three 18650 li-on 3400mah batteries- 5 inch led screen.Since it streams PC games over wifi, no more complaining about console crap games!
LOL - want one.
Wolfpup - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
But even still I might buy it...dang, Tegra 4 looks awesome. Not really surprising since Tegra 2 and 3 were awesome when they released too.ganjha - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
That's one big audio connector they have; 3.5"... :-Dxcomvic - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
If they price this around $100.00 they will win the mobile gaming award of the century. They will have to compete with the Ouya and Gamestick. They might get away with $125.00. Anything higher I don't think will be viable.Guspaz - Monday, January 7, 2013 - link
The 3DS is perfectly viable at $170, why would nothing above $125 be viable?CeriseCogburn - Monday, January 14, 2013 - link
I'll pay $475.I've got a websurfer, I've got all of Android, I've got portable gaming, I've got all my PC games at my fingertips. I've got bass reflex sound. I've got a touchscreen, I've got on board storage, I've got HDMI to my bigscreen.
I've got a console PLUS my entire PC in my hands.
Hello ? Another cheapo amd fanboy. Ask mommy for a present.