I've been through about a dozen Saitek Cyborg R.A.T mice over the past couple years, while comfortable (To me) and packed with features they just keep breaking on me, thankfully it has decently long warranty. Mostly though it's the left mouse button or the laser that craps out.
I would just want a mouse (A set of headphones would be good too!) that will last me years without breaking.
Saitek products are usually above average in terms of quality and materials. And while I am not familiar or used all their product lines the ones I have are well made. I even stocked up on their old PC controllers Buy.com clearance them out. Great quality controllers that has lasted years for me.
I had a RAT 7 and plan on getting another. mine lasted for almost a full year (new years to new years), except, of all things, the CABLE crapped out. It's probably because I wrapped it around. I had a few tracking issues here and there, but it was mostly just a matter of disconnecting and reconnecting the mouse. not a big issue. I think its pros outweigh its cons. This time i'm getting it in White! :D
(It's plenty durable to me. I would have mine under warranty except it was my fault ;) )
I am in complete agreement with the OP, though the Level 10 mouse I think tops the RAT in the "WTF Is that thing" department.
Nope, he's right, they do break. I spent around $90 on the R.A.T. 7 and the scroll wheel broke after 2 months of use. I google'd the issue and found that many people had the same problem. I gotta say it was a great mouse while it worked but I'll stay away from them because they have a history for breaking. Now I have the Logitech G9x. It's not the best fit for my hand by any means but at least I know it'll last for years.
I can vouch for that... I recently had to retire my RAT7 after less than a year of use. The mouse would intermittently permanently track a direction (up and to the left) until I blew on the mouse's laser. While that could be simply related to dust or dirt, I've never ever had that happen on another mouse. It's obviously also not very helpful for gaming.
A bit after that it would randomly stop reading the X-axis entirely until I unplugged and re-plugged it. That made for some amusing piloting complications in Planetside 2, where I would accidentally fly my craft directly into the ground trying to make a hard turn.
When it did work it did work nicely, however no where near as good as my recent Deathadder 2013 edition. The lift-off control and precision on the mouse is fantastic.
... what I really appreciate are mice actually designed for my hand as opposed to almost-symmetric designs. I have two left handed Razer Death Adder mice (one for home, one for work); and used Logitech's left handed model before that.
I've never had a sweaty palm issue with one either; but my grip is fairly loose so there's never a been problem with blocked airflow preventing evaporation.
Razer Death Adder left is the only mouse I'll ever buy for myself again.
Aside from the physical comfort, it also defaults to the right button as the primary click button, meaning you don't have to reverse the mouse buttons in the control panel. Seems like a small thing, but a lot of games don't register the control panel setting, so you have to re-specify the primary button in the game controls. And even then, the primary button will apply to gameplay, but not to menu selection which cannot be switched using the control panel OR the in-game settings. (I'm talking to YOU Bethesda and 2K).
You may have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands. It certainly isn't the best at any one thing, but for $30 it cannot be beat (nor bought anymore, either).
Good review as usual.Wish we had more reviews of a peripheral nature as well. Over-engineered and under functionalitied .. this Level 10 won't be joining my Level 10 GT case on my desk.
"It's difficult to quantify strict performance, an issue ameliorated somewhat by the fact that actual performance (dpi, etc.) can often take a distant backseat to user comfort and the software included."
Are you kidding?
No mention of what sensor this mouse uses? Acceleration? Angle snapping?
Weight?
Also your gallery is broken and you have five pictures of the mouse with no images or mention of the bottom or any suggestion of what type of surface it may or may not be best on.
These basic objective measures are far important to report on than anything else. This isn't a review without actually talking about the flaws with the mouses tracking.
I'm getting page not found errors on the gallery on the "The Thermaltake Level 10 M in Practice" page. When I click through to see bigger pictures it says the gallery isn't found.
It seems to me that the comfort of a mouse is less subjective than it is simply individually variable depending on who is holding it. No maker of gloves would suggest that we all wear the same size, but does any maker of computer mice build "sized" mice? Having a mouse that is the correct size for you hand may be the single most important factor in the "subjective" impression of comfort.
I've seen a few custom manufacturers who've sold customized mice in the past (not sure if they still do). I ran across them years ago searching for something left handed an ergonomic; but with sticker prices of several hundred dollars each they were extremely far from mainstream.
I don't see this changing until/unless 3d printing approaches cost/quality competitiveness with mass produced injection molding.
I have this Thermaltake mouse and am using it now. But honestly I don't like it. The reason is that there are just too many buttons on the left side. This makes it far more difficult to pick up. The original BMW design this was taken from was different.
Sometimes simpler, as in fewer or even smaller buttons, is better. So why do all the new mice that hit the market now days have to come with 8, 10... 15 buttons? Is it just a marketing metric? Whatever the reason I wish some of these companies would at least take the time to build a prototype and let someone "use it" to see if its really functional.
What a monster! Who would in his right mind buy this? Or actually use this? It is certain to cause blisters on more than a couple of spots on the hand.
I wouldnt game with that if it was the last mouse on the planet.
I have no idea why dont they actually confer with gamers, some of us have been gaming with these peripherals for decades now. I wish I could design my own, it wouldnt look like that for sure.
ALL I have to say is the greatest mouse EVER is the Logitech Marble Trackman FX . Bought one in 1998 (14 years ago) and it still works like a beast. IT was expensive for the time $80 I think, but I would gladly drop $150 for a new one these days. If you havent heard of it look it up. IT is trackball but argubaly the greatest one ever invented. Ig you can get past the looks, give it 15 or 20 minutes and you will never want to use anything else.
"And then you get into missing features. On-the-fly DPI switching is grand, but the "DPI shift" functionality of some of Logitech's gaming mice and both of Corsair's is desperately missed. My G500 doesn't have it and I live without because the thing was designed before the concept even existed, but it's here now, and its absence in a brand new premium product is notable."
It would have been a sore mistake if they didn't include on-the-fly DPI switching. You mention that your G500 cannot, but my G5, and the MX518 which it is based off of have it. This is even without the Logitech setpoint software installed. Are you certain that the DPI button on your G500 doesn't switch your DPI settings between 400, 800, and 1600 for defaults?
first the bmw case and now this? two of the ugliest products i have ever seen. time i ditch that bmw engineering team. if 80-90% of people are right handed why design mice to be ambidextrous? let left handed people either suffer and use a right handed mouse or go buy a left handed mouse instead of ruining mice that right handed people use. yes i am left handed prejudice. left handed weirdos.
Very stoked that anandtech reviewed this mouse. I was all set to impulse buy this on boxing day but now having read this review I will make sure to try it out in person first. Despite what others have said in the comments, I think the 10M looks f*cking awesome and gives off the impression of a luxury vehicle or a high-end smartphone, which is more than can be said of most of its competition. You can criticize the price but look at the competition, eg the Logitech G700 at $100 comes across as extremely low-rent in comparison. There are plenty of high-end mice in the $80-120 range but none have the industrial design or craftsmanship of the 10M save the Corsair M60/90. If you're going to spend such an absurd amount of $ on an overpriced component, ditching the cheap plastic and rubber for high-end materials is the least that I expect.
I used to be a logitech fan but I have had so many of their mice die on me that I have almost given up on them. IMHO if you spend $50 on a mouse it should last more than 3yrs. MS mice also drive me crazy with their lack of scroll wheel detents which ironically windows also can't handle. And razers are all, to my hand, abnormally oversized. So the search continues....
"I think the 10M looks f*cking awesome and gives off the impression of a luxury vehicle or a high-end smartphone"
seriously what looks like a luxury car on it? And a high end Smartphone? since those two things look nothing alike I find it hard to see either in this mouse.lol I don't think it looks anything like either nor would I want a mouse to look like them. To me it looks more like a autobot transformer.
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jibz - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
If you want an adjustable mouse, it's both cheaper and way more adjustable. Plus it looks a lot better.StevoLincolnite - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
I've been through about a dozen Saitek Cyborg R.A.T mice over the past couple years, while comfortable (To me) and packed with features they just keep breaking on me, thankfully it has decently long warranty.Mostly though it's the left mouse button or the laser that craps out.
I would just want a mouse (A set of headphones would be good too!) that will last me years without breaking.
jibz - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
At some point, you might have to wonder if you're not part of the problem. A new mouse every 3 months seem excessive.Never had any problem with mine. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket! Just saying.
Zink - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
Newegg reviews seems to indicate they aren't durable.The0ne - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
Saitek products are usually above average in terms of quality and materials. And while I am not familiar or used all their product lines the ones I have are well made. I even stocked up on their old PC controllers Buy.com clearance them out. Great quality controllers that has lasted years for me.jibz - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
I'm mot saying they are durable. I don't have any problem with mine, but that's a single case. But 12 mice in 2 years? Come on!Inteli - Saturday, December 22, 2012 - link
I had a RAT 7 and plan on getting another. mine lasted for almost a full year (new years to new years), except, of all things, the CABLE crapped out. It's probably because I wrapped it around. I had a few tracking issues here and there, but it was mostly just a matter of disconnecting and reconnecting the mouse. not a big issue. I think its pros outweigh its cons. This time i'm getting it in White! :D(It's plenty durable to me. I would have mine under warranty except it was my fault ;) )
I am in complete agreement with the OP, though the Level 10 mouse I think tops the RAT in the "WTF Is that thing" department.
corpsegrind3r - Saturday, December 22, 2012 - link
Nope, he's right, they do break. I spent around $90 on the R.A.T. 7 and the scroll wheel broke after 2 months of use. I google'd the issue and found that many people had the same problem. I gotta say it was a great mouse while it worked but I'll stay away from them because they have a history for breaking. Now I have the Logitech G9x. It's not the best fit for my hand by any means but at least I know it'll last for years.gammonwalker - Sunday, December 30, 2012 - link
I can vouch for that... I recently had to retire my RAT7 after less than a year of use. The mouse would intermittently permanently track a direction (up and to the left) until I blew on the mouse's laser. While that could be simply related to dust or dirt, I've never ever had that happen on another mouse. It's obviously also not very helpful for gaming.A bit after that it would randomly stop reading the X-axis entirely until I unplugged and re-plugged it. That made for some amusing piloting complications in Planetside 2, where I would accidentally fly my craft directly into the ground trying to make a hard turn.
When it did work it did work nicely, however no where near as good as my recent Deathadder 2013 edition. The lift-off control and precision on the mouse is fantastic.
Papaspud - Monday, December 24, 2012 - link
The lasers are crap on these, mine didn't last 2 weeks before it started messing up.DanNeely - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
... what I really appreciate are mice actually designed for my hand as opposed to almost-symmetric designs. I have two left handed Razer Death Adder mice (one for home, one for work); and used Logitech's left handed model before that.I've never had a sweaty palm issue with one either; but my grip is fairly loose so there's never a been problem with blocked airflow preventing evaporation.
truprecht - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
Razer Death Adder left is the only mouse I'll ever buy for myself again.Aside from the physical comfort, it also defaults to the right button as the primary click button, meaning you don't have to reverse the mouse buttons in the control panel. Seems like a small thing, but a lot of games don't register the control panel setting, so you have to re-specify the primary button in the game controls. And even then, the primary button will apply to gameplay, but not to menu selection which cannot be switched using the control panel OR the in-game settings. (I'm talking to YOU Bethesda and 2K).
aguilpa1 - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
When my Replicator 2 comes in I will make me some real custom mouse bodies just for my hand.WT - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
You may have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands. It certainly isn't the best at any one thing, but for $30 it cannot be beat (nor bought anymore, either).Good review as usual.Wish we had more reviews of a peripheral nature as well. Over-engineered and under functionalitied .. this Level 10 won't be joining my Level 10 GT case on my desk.
Tuffrabbit - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
The Logitech MX518 is still my favorite out of current mouse collection...Impulses - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
Newegg had the G500 for $34 during Black Friday weekend... Hard to beat for that price, nearly bought two myself. :pAVP - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
"It's difficult to quantify strict performance, an issue ameliorated somewhat by the fact that actual performance (dpi, etc.) can often take a distant backseat to user comfort and the software included."Are you kidding?
No mention of what sensor this mouse uses? Acceleration? Angle snapping?
Weight?
Also your gallery is broken and you have five pictures of the mouse with no images or mention of the bottom or any suggestion of what type of surface it may or may not be best on.
ChronoReverse - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
A quick Google reveals that it's an Avago ADNS-9800 which still has minor acceleration.BrightCandle - Saturday, December 22, 2012 - link
These basic objective measures are far important to report on than anything else. This isn't a review without actually talking about the flaws with the mouses tracking.SodaAnt - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
I'm getting page not found errors on the gallery on the "The Thermaltake Level 10 M in Practice" page. When I click through to see bigger pictures it says the gallery isn't found.garypark - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
It seems to me that the comfort of a mouse is less subjective than it is simply individually variable depending on who is holding it. No maker of gloves would suggest that we all wear the same size, but does any maker of computer mice build "sized" mice? Having a mouse that is the correct size for you hand may be the single most important factor in the "subjective" impression of comfort.DanNeely - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
I've seen a few custom manufacturers who've sold customized mice in the past (not sure if they still do). I ran across them years ago searching for something left handed an ergonomic; but with sticker prices of several hundred dollars each they were extremely far from mainstream.I don't see this changing until/unless 3d printing approaches cost/quality competitiveness with mass produced injection molding.
colonelciller - Saturday, December 22, 2012 - link
3D printed parts are brittle... they should not be compared to injection moulded partsCannyone - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
I have this Thermaltake mouse and am using it now. But honestly I don't like it. The reason is that there are just too many buttons on the left side. This makes it far more difficult to pick up. The original BMW design this was taken from was different.Sometimes simpler, as in fewer or even smaller buttons, is better. So why do all the new mice that hit the market now days have to come with 8, 10... 15 buttons? Is it just a marketing metric? Whatever the reason I wish some of these companies would at least take the time to build a prototype and let someone "use it" to see if its really functional.
versesuvius - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
What a monster! Who would in his right mind buy this? Or actually use this? It is certain to cause blisters on more than a couple of spots on the hand.MadAd - Friday, December 21, 2012 - link
I wouldnt game with that if it was the last mouse on the planet.I have no idea why dont they actually confer with gamers, some of us have been gaming with these peripherals for decades now. I wish I could design my own, it wouldnt look like that for sure.
liffie420 - Saturday, December 22, 2012 - link
ALL I have to say is the greatest mouse EVER is the Logitech Marble Trackman FX . Bought one in 1998 (14 years ago) and it still works like a beast. IT was expensive for the time $80 I think, but I would gladly drop $150 for a new one these days. If you havent heard of it look it up. IT is trackball but argubaly the greatest one ever invented. Ig you can get past the looks, give it 15 or 20 minutes and you will never want to use anything else.DiHydro - Sunday, December 23, 2012 - link
"And then you get into missing features. On-the-fly DPI switching is grand, but the "DPI shift" functionality of some of Logitech's gaming mice and both of Corsair's is desperately missed. My G500 doesn't have it and I live without because the thing was designed before the concept even existed, but it's here now, and its absence in a brand new premium product is notable."It would have been a sore mistake if they didn't include on-the-fly DPI switching. You mention that your G500 cannot, but my G5, and the MX518 which it is based off of have it. This is even without the Logitech setpoint software installed. Are you certain that the DPI button on your G500 doesn't switch your DPI settings between 400, 800, and 1600 for defaults?
jonjonjonj - Sunday, December 23, 2012 - link
first the bmw case and now this? two of the ugliest products i have ever seen. time i ditch that bmw engineering team. if 80-90% of people are right handed why design mice to be ambidextrous? let left handed people either suffer and use a right handed mouse or go buy a left handed mouse instead of ruining mice that right handed people use. yes i am left handed prejudice. left handed weirdos.Evil_Sheep - Monday, December 24, 2012 - link
Very stoked that anandtech reviewed this mouse. I was all set to impulse buy this on boxing day but now having read this review I will make sure to try it out in person first. Despite what others have said in the comments, I think the 10M looks f*cking awesome and gives off the impression of a luxury vehicle or a high-end smartphone, which is more than can be said of most of its competition. You can criticize the price but look at the competition, eg the Logitech G700 at $100 comes across as extremely low-rent in comparison. There are plenty of high-end mice in the $80-120 range but none have the industrial design or craftsmanship of the 10M save the Corsair M60/90. If you're going to spend such an absurd amount of $ on an overpriced component, ditching the cheap plastic and rubber for high-end materials is the least that I expect.I used to be a logitech fan but I have had so many of their mice die on me that I have almost given up on them. IMHO if you spend $50 on a mouse it should last more than 3yrs. MS mice also drive me crazy with their lack of scroll wheel detents which ironically windows also can't handle. And razers are all, to my hand, abnormally oversized. So the search continues....
piiman - Monday, December 24, 2012 - link
"I think the 10M looks f*cking awesome and gives off the impression of a luxury vehicle or a high-end smartphone"seriously what looks like a luxury car on it? And a high end Smartphone? since those two things look nothing alike I find it hard to see either in this mouse.lol
I don't think it looks anything like either nor would I want a mouse to look like them.
To me it looks more like a autobot transformer.
thermaltake_uk - Wednesday, January 9, 2013 - link
http://www.ttesports.com/press/Press_News_detail.a...