16GB NAND die should enable wider support for 1TB SSDs as most controllers can't address enough NAND die to have 1TB of NAND with 8GB die. When, I don't know, but the prices will probably be a bit higher in the beginning at least.
Mushkin has had a very high failure rate on their Chronos SSDs so I hope these are a lot more reliable because they have alienated a lot of their customers with previous SSD models.
You are correct that failure "rates" are difficult to come by and that's why most folks don't understand just how bad the SSD situation is. The data released by the SSD makers is as bogus as a three dollar bill, so take it and the MTBF data as an insult or outright lie.
Of course, Beenthere knows all so don't worry -- just trust his post! Most folks don't understand just how bad the SSD situation is. Like me. I've had several SSDs deployed for a couple years now (Vertex 120, Vertex 2 120) and more recently I've had probably a couple dozen SSDs come through with laptops for testing. Not a single one has failed. Now, granted, I'm not stress testing for hours on end; I'm just using them as I use any computer. This system that I'm typing on for instance has a year+ old MemoRight 240GB SF-2281 SSD. Still going strong!
Jarred, you're acting like a jerk. Wow, you have a reference sample base of three SSDs, that's statitistically very useful or NOT! And you've tested a dozen SSDs for a few days. Yeah that too is a wonderful reference point or NOT! Yet you ignore the thousands of reports from other SSD owners as if they don't exist. You assume that because you have no compatibility, reliability, firmware, drive side reduction, etc. that no one else does either. That is pure ignorance and shows how irresponsible it is to even suggest that you have some basis for making a determination on the reliability or compatibility of SSDs.
It's time to get a grip on the reality that many SSD makers are shipping half-baked products and consumers are the un-paid Beta testers. It is a disgrace and the fact that those in the media charged with responsible reporting tend to ignore the SSD defects or try to rationalise them under the guise of "new tech" even though SSDs have existed for a number years.
In regards to Cheronos SSDs in particular, which is what my comment in this thread was about, Mushkin themselve's have acknowledged an excessive number of failed Chronos SSDs. They think the issue is a bad firmware so they have updated it. That however hasn't prevented thousands of Mushkin SSD owners from having lost data, time and money dealing with Chronos SSDs that were not properly validated prior to shipment - like most SSDs being sold to consumers.
If the SSD makers tried to sell these defective SSDs to military, aerospace or many other industries they'd get sued and be out of business for selling defective goods. Instead they sell them to gullible consumers based on glowing reviews by those in the media who gloss over any recognised defects.
When a reviewer has an SSD fail during testing then gets a second review SSD and it too fails during testing and the reviewer FAILS TO REPORT this in their review, but goes ahead and publishes as if the Samsung 840 Pro has no issues, that is fraud and they should be held accountable for consumer fraud.
As far as Muskin is concerned, I have used their DRAM without issues and I would recommend it. As far as their SSDs, I would not touch one with a ten foot pole until I see a history and reliability.
Here's some information for Jarred and everyone else:
Attacking the messanger does not change reality. Just because you haven't experienced an issue with an SSD, doesn't mean that thousands of other people have not had issues nor that the SSD is not defective. Until the media starts accurately reporting SSD issues, SSD makers will continue to sell improperly validated crap to naive consumers.
We noted the failure of our Samsung SSD 840 Pro in the initial review and also updated the article when our second sample died.
"Both drives will be available on October 15th, however in advance of the release Samsung provided us with a beta sample for review. We were only able to get a 256GB 840 Pro initially but we've already asked Samsung for additional capacities. The other bad news is after running through our client test suite and preparing the drive for a run through our enterprise suite, our pre-production sample died. This isn't the first time we've had an SSD die during our test process, pretty much every company has seen a failure during one of our reviews, but despite Samsung's excellent track record even it isn't immune from early issues. These drives are a few weeks away from retail and Samsung will be getting our sample back this week to figure out what went wrong."
"Update: My replacement 840 Pro also died, I have shipped both drives back to Samsung and are waiting for their analysis of the failures. "
Beenthere is right, Newegg* and other sites seem to have a ton of feedback claiming the devices were DOA or had some issues, but it's hit or miss and it still has a 4/5 star average. Also, it helps to include sources... most people don't believe something until they have facts.
beenthere (and done nothing?) is such a moron, just because some people bitxh about certain ssd it means all ssd on the market are 1/2 assed product?
you seem to forgot that there are thousands if not millions of people with zero issues and 99% of the time when something works they will not just cry out loud like omfg my ssd works as it should!!!
did ur mom dropped u when u were and infant? seems so. next time if u wanna say something, please do something good for mankind and shut up.
I have owned 6 different ssd's. Of the 6 the three mushkins I've had 0 failures or issues with. 2 of these are over 2 years old. I've had an ocz die in a week and a sandisk die after 2 months. I still have the replacement sandisk but sold the ocz immediately.
I will continue to only purchase mushkin ssd's from now on given the reliability I've had, great support from the guy on their tech support number, and experience in rmaing ram.
I've been using a Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB since May without any issues, done 2 firmware upgrades (one upon purchase in May, one to 504 in October). Drive still performs as it did when I installed it (have about 70GB free now).
I have a Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB SSD in my Mac Mini, and never had any problems with it. I also have two OCZ Vertex 2 drives that are still going strong. Either I'm very lucky or this issue is not nearly as bad as you claim.
Honestly I think reducing the amount of inventory in transit has more to do with bringing manufacturing back to the USA (or Mexico for low skill items). Ex The cost to ship a tshirt across the pacific in a container ship is only a few cents. Fuel costs could soar an order of magnitude without making minimum wage workers in the US competitive with their Vietnamese rivals.
This doesn't mean there is any reduction in transit at all. Made in USA sticker can be put on anything "assembled" in the US.
The chips and circuit board could have been manufactured anywhere in the world. You can still use the sticker as so long as the chips and board are joined together in the US. Basically 99% of the creation of the good is done offshore, and 5 morons on a warehouse somewhere in the US solder the two pieces together and its suddenly Made in America.
I would assume then that the NAND is still at 8GB. Furthermore it is utilizing 25nm asynchronous NAND. I do not know if that was for power restrictions on mSATA or not, but also consider the fact that Mushkin is trying to get rid of their asynchronous NAND stock.
According to Intel, the mSATA z-height spec is 4.85 mm.
The Intel 313 mSATA card is 3.6 mm thick and that would mean that the Mushkin daughter card would be 1.2 mm to stay within spec. I highly doubt that it is 1.2 mm as that would be too flimsy and the NAND chip itself is 1.2 mm thick.
I want to say that there are 2 installation scenarios, laptop and desktop. Desktops should not be an issue with z-height, but laptops would have some restriction depending on the manufacture. My Lenovo X220 (wannabe Ultrabook) has a decent amount of space for a "thick" mSATA card, other manufactures may have tighter tolerances, especially real Ultrabook class chassis designs.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
27 Comments
Back to Article
nathanddrews - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
480GB SSD boot drive + 2.5" 1TB HDD for storage on just about any size laptop.Does this also mean that with the 16GB NAND barrier broken we'll see 1TB+ SSDs in the 2.5" form factor?
nathanddrews - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
I meant 6Gbps 1TB+ SSDs in the 2.5" form factor.Kristian Vättö - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
16GB NAND die should enable wider support for 1TB SSDs as most controllers can't address enough NAND die to have 1TB of NAND with 8GB die. When, I don't know, but the prices will probably be a bit higher in the beginning at least.kensiko - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
It will arrive pretty soon.I just got my hands on 2 x Mushkin Chronos 480GB, 196$ each !! Newegg.
Souka - Wednesday, December 12, 2012 - link
"Max read speed is 540MBps, write is 425MBps"But realworld compared to other SSD?
I'm just guessing, but it'll be more like 90w/60r MBps
Beenthere - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Mushkin has had a very high failure rate on their Chronos SSDs so I hope these are a lot more reliable because they have alienated a lot of their customers with previous SSD models.jwcalla - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
I'm not necessarily doubting you, but where did you get that from? It seems hard to get reliable failure rate numbers for disks.Beenthere - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
Ask anyone who bought a Chronos SSD...You are correct that failure "rates" are difficult to come by and that's why most folks don't understand just how bad the SSD situation is. The data released by the SSD makers is as bogus as a three dollar bill, so take it and the MTBF data as an insult or outright lie.
JarredWalton - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
Of course, Beenthere knows all so don't worry -- just trust his post! Most folks don't understand just how bad the SSD situation is. Like me. I've had several SSDs deployed for a couple years now (Vertex 120, Vertex 2 120) and more recently I've had probably a couple dozen SSDs come through with laptops for testing. Not a single one has failed. Now, granted, I'm not stress testing for hours on end; I'm just using them as I use any computer. This system that I'm typing on for instance has a year+ old MemoRight 240GB SF-2281 SSD. Still going strong!Beenthere - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
Jarred, you're acting like a jerk. Wow, you have a reference sample base of three SSDs, that's statitistically very useful or NOT! And you've tested a dozen SSDs for a few days. Yeah that too is a wonderful reference point or NOT! Yet you ignore the thousands of reports from other SSD owners as if they don't exist. You assume that because you have no compatibility, reliability, firmware, drive side reduction, etc. that no one else does either. That is pure ignorance and shows how irresponsible it is to even suggest that you have some basis for making a determination on the reliability or compatibility of SSDs.It's time to get a grip on the reality that many SSD makers are shipping half-baked products and consumers are the un-paid Beta testers. It is a disgrace and the fact that those in the media charged with responsible reporting tend to ignore the SSD defects or try to rationalise them under the guise of "new tech" even though SSDs have existed for a number years.
In regards to Cheronos SSDs in particular, which is what my comment in this thread was about, Mushkin themselve's have acknowledged an excessive number of failed Chronos SSDs. They think the issue is a bad firmware so they have updated it. That however hasn't prevented thousands of Mushkin SSD owners from having lost data, time and money dealing with Chronos SSDs that were not properly validated prior to shipment - like most SSDs being sold to consumers.
If the SSD makers tried to sell these defective SSDs to military, aerospace or many other industries they'd get sued and be out of business for selling defective goods. Instead they sell them to gullible consumers based on glowing reviews by those in the media who gloss over any recognised defects.
When a reviewer has an SSD fail during testing then gets a second review SSD and it too fails during testing and the reviewer FAILS TO REPORT this in their review, but goes ahead and publishes as if the Samsung 840 Pro has no issues, that is fraud and they should be held accountable for consumer fraud.
As far as Muskin is concerned, I have used their DRAM without issues and I would recommend it. As far as their SSDs, I would not touch one with a ten foot pole until I see a history and reliability.
Here's some information for Jarred and everyone else:
Attacking the messanger does not change reality. Just because you haven't experienced an issue with an SSD, doesn't mean that thousands of other people have not had issues nor that the SSD is not defective. Until the media starts accurately reporting SSD issues, SSD makers will continue to sell improperly validated crap to naive consumers.
Kristian Vättö - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
We noted the failure of our Samsung SSD 840 Pro in the initial review and also updated the article when our second sample died."Both drives will be available on October 15th, however in advance of the release Samsung provided us with a beta sample for review. We were only able to get a 256GB 840 Pro initially but we've already asked Samsung for additional capacities. The other bad news is after running through our client test suite and preparing the drive for a run through our enterprise suite, our pre-production sample died. This isn't the first time we've had an SSD die during our test process, pretty much every company has seen a failure during one of our reviews, but despite Samsung's excellent track record even it isn't immune from early issues. These drives are a few weeks away from retail and Samsung will be getting our sample back this week to figure out what went wrong."
"Update: My replacement 840 Pro also died, I have shipped both drives back to Samsung and are waiting for their analysis of the failures. "
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6328/samsung-ssd-840...
Since then we have also provided additional updates to the issues surrounding the 840/840 Pro:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6483/update-on-samsu...
Death666Angel - Saturday, December 8, 2012 - link
Acting like an idiot like you does sometimes draw the jerk out of people.... Whoops.Nfarce - Sunday, December 9, 2012 - link
Wow, Beenthere (and done what??). If you wanted to act like a complete jackhole on a blog in public, you sure succeeded pal.daniel142005 - Sunday, December 9, 2012 - link
Beenthere is right, Newegg* and other sites seem to have a ton of feedback claiming the devices were DOA or had some issues, but it's hit or miss and it still has a 4/5 star average. Also, it helps to include sources... most people don't believe something until they have facts.* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
chick0n - Thursday, December 13, 2012 - link
beenthere (and done nothing?) is such a moron, just because some people bitxh about certain ssd it means all ssd on the market are 1/2 assed product?you seem to forgot that there are thousands if not millions of people with zero issues and 99% of the time when something works they will not just cry out loud like omfg my ssd works as it should!!!
did ur mom dropped u when u were and infant? seems so. next time if u wanna say something, please do something good for mankind and shut up.
Christobevii3 - Monday, December 31, 2012 - link
I have owned 6 different ssd's. Of the 6 the three mushkins I've had 0 failures or issues with. 2 of these are over 2 years old. I've had an ocz die in a week and a sandisk die after 2 months. I still have the replacement sandisk but sold the ocz immediately.I will continue to only purchase mushkin ssd's from now on given the reliability I've had, great support from the guy on their tech support number, and experience in rmaing ram.
Donkey2008 - Wednesday, January 2, 2013 - link
So "Ask anyone who bought a Chronos SSD..."?Ok then...
Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB owner since September 2012. No issues whatsoever. As fast as the day I bought it.
gramboh - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
I've been using a Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB since May without any issues, done 2 firmware upgrades (one upon purchase in May, one to 504 in October). Drive still performs as it did when I installed it (have about 70GB free now).LordConrad - Sunday, December 9, 2012 - link
I have a Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB SSD in my Mac Mini, and never had any problems with it. I also have two OCZ Vertex 2 drives that are still going strong. Either I'm very lucky or this issue is not nearly as bad as you claim.GruntboyX - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Interesting that it says its made in the usa. unrelated but apple seems to be shifting some of its production to the usa.I wonder what is motivating this trend.
jwcalla - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Only the sticker was made in the USA.I kid... All Mushkin memory products are assembled in the USA. That's just how they roll.
There might be a bit of a trend though... rising fuel prices, rapidly rising wages in China and a floating yuan certainly help.
DanNeely - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
Honestly I think reducing the amount of inventory in transit has more to do with bringing manufacturing back to the USA (or Mexico for low skill items). Ex The cost to ship a tshirt across the pacific in a container ship is only a few cents. Fuel costs could soar an order of magnitude without making minimum wage workers in the US competitive with their Vietnamese rivals.SandmanWN - Wednesday, December 12, 2012 - link
This doesn't mean there is any reduction in transit at all.Made in USA sticker can be put on anything "assembled" in the US.
The chips and circuit board could have been manufactured anywhere in the world. You can still use the sticker as so long as the chips and board are joined together in the US.
Basically 99% of the creation of the good is done offshore, and 5 morons on a warehouse somewhere in the US solder the two pieces together and its suddenly Made in America.
PaulJeff - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Turns out that the mSATA card uses a stacked daughter board:http://images.tweaktown.com/content/5/1/5102_08111...
I would assume then that the NAND is still at 8GB. Furthermore it is utilizing 25nm asynchronous NAND. I do not know if that was for power restrictions on mSATA or not, but also consider the fact that Mushkin is trying to get rid of their asynchronous NAND stock.
JarredWalton - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Interesting... I'm surprised they can use this sort of arrangement and still be within mSATA size restrictions.PaulJeff - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
According to Intel, the mSATA z-height spec is 4.85 mm.The Intel 313 mSATA card is 3.6 mm thick and that would mean that the Mushkin daughter card would be 1.2 mm to stay within spec. I highly doubt that it is 1.2 mm as that would be too flimsy and the NAND chip itself is 1.2 mm thick.
I want to say that there are 2 installation scenarios, laptop and desktop. Desktops should not be an issue with z-height, but laptops would have some restriction depending on the manufacture. My Lenovo X220 (wannabe Ultrabook) has a decent amount of space for a "thick" mSATA card, other manufactures may have tighter tolerances, especially real Ultrabook class chassis designs.
PDF Source: http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/...
ajp_anton - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Isn't this short enough to fit an adapter to be put into a Macbook?