It's nothinnoting that MHL was positioned as a single cable charging + video solution, but it requires the TV to be MHL equipped. I haven't run across any myself but I do think that's the optional forward-looking solution... They just threw it out there before there were any MHL equipped TVs in the market, chicken and egg thing I guess.
I'm not sure what benefit Slim Port provides over the old micro HDMI + USB discrete ports, other than eliminating one port... You still need either one or two cables depending on whether you wanna charge, and micro HDMI to HDMI adapters were cheap and plentiful (and easy to carry if you wanted to use existing HDMI cables anywhere).
It almost seems like Slimport would've been ideal had it come as an interim solution BEFORE MHL, but if it slows down MHL adoption I feel like we're going backwards. Thanks for shedding some light on this tho.
P.S. Is Miracast working on any of Netgear's streaming/WiDi boxes yet?
Unfortunately, I cannot back my words here because of the lack of availability of the specs.
MHL and SlimPort do basically the same with multiplexing the differential stream on the microUSB connector. MHL is linked to HDMI while SlimPort is linked to DisplayPort. Apart from that, things look similar. MHL has a lot of companies backing that up, while SlimPort does not. It looks like SlimPort is using some sort of draft myDP specification at the moment - and we know how good the situation was with draft 802.11n.
TVs with MHL ports were the hit last Christmas - mostly Samsung TVs - so these TVs should be able to provide the needed power. However, the cables that are sold by the phone companies are microUSB to HDMI, that is, MHL Dongles. The reason is easy to understand: these cables are compatible with most TV sets. As you can see, this thing is more compatible by making it harder to work with. I wonder how easy it is to actually buy a proper cable that does not require external power and does not translate the signals into HDMI. And I wonder what bad feeling would I have if I go to a friend's home, plug my MHL cable and nothing works because his set does not work with MHL directly.
I need to say, in order to defend MHL somewhat, that the latest bunch of devices by Silicon Image provide 1080p@60Hz too.
Miracast / WiDi, as far as I know, is something like VNC over the network, probably using H264. I wonder how good or bad that would be for streaming video. If I got this right, if you want to watch a video from the mobile phone, the phone will be uncompressed and Miracast will recompress it on the fly, worsening the quality of the video. From my point of view, DLNA may be better quality wise, although I know it is a pain to communicate devices sometimes.
"Mobility DisplayPort (MYDP) is a standard that has been proposed by ST to VESA that also embeds the AUX channel onto a single wire. Refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gwfY_KNsMg&fea... . SlimPort products are compatible with devices that comply with MYDP (proposed at the time of this writing)."
At first, you need to carry a dongle along with you... So, if not many households have a micro HDMI cable available, you might carry a micro HDMI cable with you as well as you can carry a dongle...
Stand alone micro HDMI port still is much better as it simply allows you to use your tablet/phone USB port while using an external display. This simply is not possible with MHL, and by the diagrams, also it is not possible with Slimport, unless you use special micro USB connectors (i.e.: Galaxy S3) which are not standard across devices, that have more than the usual 5 pins, then MHL/Slimport signals go on the extra pins and there is no switching between video and USB. I believe that both standards should have started with those specs, so all devices and MHL/Slimport adapters would be ready for this, but that is not true, you already have MHL adapters and Slimport adapters that do not allow you to use USB and video output at the same time....
So with the Nexus 4 you only get 720p60? Isn't it possible to push real 1080p to the TV (maybe by disabling the phone's screen first)? If that's the case that's too bad. I wanted to watch family pictures on the TV with this, but if it's only 720p I will pass thank you.
With the way you worded it, I thought you meant it was 720p upscaled to 1080p for the TV.
So can you confirm that everything (launcher, apps, videos...) is rendered at 1080p and simply downscaled to 720p on the phone's screen? If so, I'm sold!
Hi Brian, Thanks for the informative write up. I just got my Nexus 4 and have realized that USB OTG does not work with it. Do you think this is a bug or do you think that since OTG needs pin 4 tied to ground, it's impossible for a phone to support SlimPort and USB OTG?
I'd appreciate any light you can shed on this subject.
Google just doesn't support USB-OTG storage on the Nexus 4, for that you'll need a custom ROM with support baked in. This is the case since Nexus 7 with Nexus devices.
I own a nexus 7 and usb OTG works on the stock rom, at least for several input devices I've tested recently. I do seem to remember there might have been an bug with OTG in some previous jelly bean revision preventing it from working. I can say with 100% certainty that USB OTG works with under the latest android version (4.2.1) with my nexus 7.
From what I read, it seems to also mostly work on a stock nexus 10 (writing to mass storage devices however seems to require some kernel/rom tweaking).
I was surprised when OTG didn't work in any way with my nexus 4 (device not supplying 5v when pins 4,5 shorted) and after reading your article I suspected a slimport conflict. However, after looking a little bit at the slimport spec. sheet, it seems in theory the standard can work in harmony with USB OTG. Although I'm still not convinced slimport is not interfering in the case of the nexus 4.
So I guess I'm still searching for answers as to why OTG doesn't work on my nexus 4.
I think he may have been referring to mass storage device access thru USB OTG (which definitely isn't supported out of the box unless a recent update has changed matters). I guess they support OTG to varying degrees? (yes for HID peripherals & no for storage?) That's bizarre...
If you install custom ROM and then enable USB OTG, would you be able to use it together with this adapter? What I mean is you plug USB OTG to the microUSB slot on the adapter (where you supposed to plug your charger).
In addition, I read that Nexus 4 doesn't support USB OTG even with custom ROMs. Brian, could you confirm if it's true? Did you manage to use your Nexus 4 with USB OTG?
Here's my question: Why does the (full-sized) DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter for my laptop cost $8, while the (reduced-size) MYDP-to-HDMI ("SlimPort") adapter cost $30 (or more)?
I just tested the Slimport-to-VGA on 2 VGA displays with my Nexus 4 and both were fails (The displays work, but thy don't get the connection from the phone). It just doesn't work. I'm curious to understand how the reviewer was able to get it to work for them. Alternatively, I have tested my Nexus 4 with a Sliport-to-HDMI and it worked perfectly without issue.
There are some paid HDMI apps which allows to control your connected devices using your smartphone with ease. Those apps can be found using AppValley APK which is available for Android and iOS devices.
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33 Comments
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snahfu - Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - link
why didnt you play a video or gameBrian Klug - Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - link
I did in a later video and on my own, but I don't think that showing those .MKVs would be wise...-Brian
techdawg667 - Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - link
Looking at the diagrams how is this any different than a regular multiplexer that you can buy for a few dollars?Brian Klug - Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - link
DisplayPort is 7 pins, USB is 5 pins maximum, MHL and SlimPort are basically SerDes + communication logic.-Brian
DerPuppy - Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - link
So...what TV is that? :DImpulses - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
It's nothinnoting that MHL was positioned as a single cable charging + video solution, but it requires the TV to be MHL equipped. I haven't run across any myself but I do think that's the optional forward-looking solution... They just threw it out there before there were any MHL equipped TVs in the market, chicken and egg thing I guess.I'm not sure what benefit Slim Port provides over the old micro HDMI + USB discrete ports, other than eliminating one port... You still need either one or two cables depending on whether you wanna charge, and micro HDMI to HDMI adapters were cheap and plentiful (and easy to carry if you wanted to use existing HDMI cables anywhere).
It almost seems like Slimport would've been ideal had it come as an interim solution BEFORE MHL, but if it slows down MHL adoption I feel like we're going backwards. Thanks for shedding some light on this tho.
P.S. Is Miracast working on any of Netgear's streaming/WiDi boxes yet?
Impulses - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Blah, owned by Swype, first paragraph should read "It's worth noting" and "optimal solution" (not optional)...CorporatePresence - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Unfortunately, I cannot back my words here because of the lack of availability of the specs.MHL and SlimPort do basically the same with multiplexing the differential stream on the microUSB connector. MHL is linked to HDMI while SlimPort is linked to DisplayPort. Apart from that, things look similar. MHL has a lot of companies backing that up, while SlimPort does not. It looks like SlimPort is using some sort of draft myDP specification at the moment - and we know how good the situation was with draft 802.11n.
TVs with MHL ports were the hit last Christmas - mostly Samsung TVs - so these TVs should be able to provide the needed power. However, the cables that are sold by the phone companies are microUSB to HDMI, that is, MHL Dongles. The reason is easy to understand: these cables are compatible with most TV sets. As you can see, this thing is more compatible by making it harder to work with. I wonder how easy it is to actually buy a proper cable that does not require external power and does not translate the signals into HDMI. And I wonder what bad feeling would I have if I go to a friend's home, plug my MHL cable and nothing works because his set does not work with MHL directly.
I need to say, in order to defend MHL somewhat, that the latest bunch of devices by Silicon Image provide 1080p@60Hz too.
Miracast / WiDi, as far as I know, is something like VNC over the network, probably using H264. I wonder how good or bad that would be for streaming video. If I got this right, if you want to watch a video from the mobile phone, the phone will be uncompressed and Miracast will recompress it on the fly, worsening the quality of the video. From my point of view, DLNA may be better quality wise, although I know it is a pain to communicate devices sometimes.
CorporatePresence - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
I should have done my research before posting...SlimPort being a draft spec
http://www.analogix.com/pdf/slimport_paper.pdf
"Mobility DisplayPort (MYDP) is a standard that has been proposed by ST to VESA that also embeds the AUX channel
onto a single wire. Refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gwfY_KNsMg&fea... . SlimPort
products are compatible with devices that comply with MYDP (proposed at the time of this writing)."
Only MHL cable that is not a dongle, in the first three pages of a Google search:
http://www.kanexlive.com/mhl-cable-passive
Most other info can be read from Wikipedia.
Hinotori - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Well,At first, you need to carry a dongle along with you... So, if not many households have a micro HDMI cable available, you might carry a micro HDMI cable with you as well as you can carry a dongle...
Stand alone micro HDMI port still is much better as it simply allows you to use your tablet/phone USB port while using an external display. This simply is not possible with MHL, and by the diagrams, also it is not possible with Slimport, unless you use special micro USB connectors (i.e.: Galaxy S3) which are not standard across devices, that have more than the usual 5 pins, then MHL/Slimport signals go on the extra pins and there is no switching between video and USB. I believe that both standards should have started with those specs, so all devices and MHL/Slimport adapters would be ready for this, but that is not true, you already have MHL adapters and Slimport adapters that do not allow you to use USB and video output at the same time....
Floflo - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
So with the Nexus 4 you only get 720p60? Isn't it possible to push real 1080p to the TV (maybe by disabling the phone's screen first)? If that's the case that's too bad. I wanted to watch family pictures on the TV with this, but if it's only 720p I will pass thank you.Brian Klug - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
As shown, you get 1080p60 to the TV, scaled 720p60 on the device.-Brian
Floflo - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
With the way you worded it, I thought you meant it was 720p upscaled to 1080p for the TV.So can you confirm that everything (launcher, apps, videos...) is rendered at 1080p and simply downscaled to 720p on the phone's screen?
If so, I'm sold!
themossie - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
"Resolution is scaled to 1080p60 on the Nexus 4 up from the panel resolution of 1280x768, which results in some letterboxing."Everything is rendered at 1280x768.
lmcd - Monday, December 17, 2012 - link
Or it could mean everything is rendered at 1080p, scaled to 720p, and you get 8px letterboxing on your N4.Floflo - Tuesday, February 5, 2013 - link
Ok so I finally bought the Nexus 4 and the SlimPort adapter, and I'm already starting to regret buying the adapter.Everything is in glorious upscaled 1280x768 (upscaled to 1920x1080 with little black bars to the left and to the right).
Also, performance is greatly reduced when plugged in the adapter. I get half the unplugged FPS in the Epic Citadel benchmark for example.
I hope Google or a custom ROM author will enable real 1080p output. If for that purpose the phone's screen must be disabled, then so be it.
ArteTetra - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
There should be a way to flag these spam messages.l3iggs_ - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Hi Brian, Thanks for the informative write up. I just got my Nexus 4 and have realized that USB OTG does not work with it. Do you think this is a bug or do you think that since OTG needs pin 4 tied to ground, it's impossible for a phone to support SlimPort and USB OTG?I'd appreciate any light you can shed on this subject.
Brian Klug - Thursday, December 6, 2012 - link
Google just doesn't support USB-OTG storage on the Nexus 4, for that you'll need a custom ROM with support baked in. This is the case since Nexus 7 with Nexus devices.-Brian
l3iggs_ - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
Sorry, I don't buy that.I own a nexus 7 and usb OTG works on the stock rom, at least for several input devices I've tested recently. I do seem to remember there might have been an bug with OTG in some previous jelly bean revision preventing it from working. I can say with 100% certainty that USB OTG works with under the latest android version (4.2.1) with my nexus 7.
From what I read, it seems to also mostly work on a stock nexus 10 (writing to mass storage devices however seems to require some kernel/rom tweaking).
I was surprised when OTG didn't work in any way with my nexus 4 (device not supplying 5v when pins 4,5 shorted) and after reading your article I suspected a slimport conflict. However, after looking a little bit at the slimport spec. sheet, it seems in theory the standard can work in harmony with USB OTG. Although I'm still not convinced slimport is not interfering in the case of the nexus 4.
So I guess I'm still searching for answers as to why OTG doesn't work on my nexus 4.
psquare - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
Hi,Let us know if you found out something.
Impulses - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
I think he may have been referring to mass storage device access thru USB OTG (which definitely isn't supported out of the box unless a recent update has changed matters). I guess they support OTG to varying degrees? (yes for HID peripherals & no for storage?) That's bizarre...psquare - Friday, December 7, 2012 - link
Brian,If you install custom ROM and then enable USB OTG, would you be able to use it together with this adapter? What I mean is you plug USB OTG to the microUSB slot on the adapter (where you supposed to plug your charger).
psquare - Sunday, December 9, 2012 - link
In addition, I read that Nexus 4 doesn't support USB OTG even with custom ROMs. Brian, could you confirm if it's true? Did you manage to use your Nexus 4 with USB OTG?Pessimism - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - link
To those of you giving yourselves aneurysms over running USB devices and multichannel audio off your cellular telephone, BREATHE.abeinspace - Thursday, April 11, 2013 - link
Just to be clear, Brian, are you saying it's impossible to get 720p over VGA with the Nexus 4?pothman - Thursday, August 29, 2013 - link
Just purchased the VGA adapter. Using nexus 4 will not sync with any LCD I have tried. Any troubleshooting.JamieNYC - Monday, September 23, 2013 - link
Same hereDeeEllEff - Thursday, August 29, 2013 - link
Here's my question: Why does the (full-sized) DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter for my laptop cost $8, while the (reduced-size) MYDP-to-HDMI ("SlimPort") adapter cost $30 (or more)?JamieNYC - Monday, September 23, 2013 - link
I just tested the Slimport-to-VGA on 2 VGA displays with my Nexus 4 and both were fails (The displays work, but thy don't get the connection from the phone). It just doesn't work. I'm curious to understand how the reviewer was able to get it to work for them. Alternatively, I have tested my Nexus 4 with a Sliport-to-HDMI and it worked perfectly without issue.Amitabha - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link
Will this Slimport SP1002 works with Asus Fonepad?tabbas97 - Tuesday, December 9, 2014 - link
will a usb otg peripheral work when connected to the charging port on the adapter ?Donnovan - Saturday, September 2, 2017 - link
There are some paid HDMI apps which allows to control your connected devices using your smartphone with ease. Those apps can be found using AppValley APK which is available for Android and iOS devices.http://appvalleydownload.com/