It does. ITs not bad priced either... You have to remember, this is a fully functional 64 bit windows intallation that can actually run enterprise apps at work, Also 1920x1080 at 10 inches is sweet.
I'm not sure I agree the price is good. I'm sure there are some use cases one could make for this device but for the price I think most would be better served by a laptop.
my friend's step-sister makes $69/hour on the laptop. She has been fired from work for six months but last month her payment was $19911 just working on the laptop for a few hours. (Click on menu Home more information) http://goo.gl/YRqXc
RTFA... They clearly said it doesn't, it still undercuts any Win 8 i5 tablet in the market and comes close to the price point of some of the Atom ones. It's gonna force some price shifting in current and upcoming products IMO. Personally I think I prefer docking solutions like ASUS' (with an extra battery) but we'll see... 1920x1080 @ 10.6" is also gonna be interesting in the context of the traditional desktop & Office, I hope dpi scaling has improved substantially.
The price isn't bad at all, really. The MacBook Air 11" doesn't have anywhere near this quality a screen and is in the same league processing-wise. Plus, from a design perspective, I think the Surface is at least competitive with Apple's notebooks. If Microsoft or a third party releases a keyboard-battery dock like you describe, I can see the Surface Pro being a truly viable competitor in the ultraportable space, unlike the Surface RT which I find underwhelming in every respect compared to other ARM-based tablets. Still, I would like to see a high-quality touchpad integrated into a dock-able Surface keyboard. Touching the screen to do everything seems impractical.
Do you honestly think they're not going to account for the DPI increase? It's something you can adjust yourself if necessary, too. But I am willing to be it'll be OK at stock settings.
"Oh man Jim, I can't believe we shipped these without checking the desktop or Office. Also we put a bunch of sharp rocks in the boxes instead of padding. Damnit! Ballmer is gonna give us the chair!"
I think this is an excellent price for what we are getting.
All ultrabook's costs similar, and have only Windows 8 minimum resolution (1366 x 768) screen, using a shitty TN panel, and no digitize pen support, and they cost the same. And it's cheaper than the Mac Book Air, and you still don't have a digitize pen.
Umm, there's $1,000 ultrabooks in the market with 13" 1920x1080 IPS displays (better than the Air)... Larger batteries, more storage, and a real keyboard too. I don't think this comes close to making ultrabooks irrelevant but it should shake up some pricing and keep things competitive. Some Atom tablets have been priced much too high ($700) and some ultrabooks have been creeping up as well, this will be a nice counter balance.
surface keyboard does add weight, but probably not 0.38 lb (the extra weight that MBA has over surface pro), but we'll say it's close enough
thickness and screen size are similar.
price, the surface pro is 20 bucks more than MBA.. considering that surface pro + keyboard is slightly lighter than MBA, we'll call this equal as well.
what the surface pro has that MBA doesn't is the resolution and touch screen.
MBA has no: -> Touch screen. -> Digitize pen support. -> No micro-SD card. So I expend the storage of the Surface Pro, while I can't on the MacBook Air. Sure I use a USB memory key, but I have an ugly stick coming out of the side
Also, MBA: -> Not a tablet -> Can't run iOS App (Windows 8 runs Windows RT apps). -> No XBox Music -> I have to buy Windows. That makes the MacBook Air more expensive -> Apple Windows 8 Boot camp drivers are laughable at best, even the ones from Windows 7 are a joke. Purposely made sucky to provide a horrible experience with Windows so that you have the illusion that MacOS is better just in terms of general experience (more responsive, more stable, etc).
So in the end, the MacBook Air is more expensive, and it's still not a tablet.
Can you point to a specific problem with BootCamp drivers in Windows 7? I run Win 7 Pro x64 on my MBA, and it runs great. Haven't had any driver issues whatsoever...
Win does work on a mac but not as good as it could work. For starters poor AHCI/ACPI support massively impacts battery life. Using a mac as a windows only machine offers poor battery life from the start. No optimus type switching under bootcamp. Furthermore the idea that as a Windows user I have to resort to bootcamp's shoddy BIOS emulation is rather insulting. You can't strip OSX of the mac either.
I don't understand why are you trying to sell macs to Windows users.
MBA can have up to 512GB SSD, and 8GB RAM. It has an SD card slot. Two USB2/3 ports, and Thunderbolt. And one of the best backlit keyboards in the business.
You know upgrading to specs like this costs a bomb? After upgrading to the specs you mentioned... BOOM $ 2000+ I can buy 2 Surface Pro with type keyboard with that.
Everyone up there are comparing the $1019 Pro and $ 999 MBA
$899+$129 for the Type Cover so you can actually do anything with it? You've gotta be kidding. Too thick, heavy, and expensive to be a tablet or consumption device, too gimped to be a real productivity device.
Just like the RT, destined to fail. Only this time, even more expensively.
Actually just a fan of good products. An overpriced convertible with a kickstand trying to be jack of all trades and master of none like this is just a flatout bad product. And as with so many of these 'niche filler' products that people keep cranking out year after year, it's not going to be around long before the plug is pulled because that's not what people want.
I agree with you on Surface Pro -- it is simply too pricey, even with the keyboard thrown in. Microsft better rethink about their pricing, coming from someone who really looked forward to Surface Pro...
I am not so sure about Windows RT just yet though. I think it has the potential if Microsoft can open up and get some apps in the AppStore. Or else, there is little reason to go for RT.
Man, I knew it was going to be higher than the RT version but this is kinda too pricey. At least if this was in the stores like BB I'd get an idea how it feels to navigate this thing. Don't have any MS stores near me to check them out.
It's has basically the same components as a MacBook Air yet is more expensive (after adding the keyboard).
People seem to think Apple products are overpriced so when you price something MORE than the equivalent Apple product--yeah, people are going to complain.
It's unfortunate that it's got a proprietary digital ink digitizer and not something useful like a wacom, with pressure sensitivity. It would have made a great tablet for drawing on, but as far as Ive been able to see anyplace, its simply an inking stylus and nothing more.
Pure speculation. It's just as likely that they use Perceptive Pixel (who they acquired shortly after the Surface announcement)'s technology which uses a projected capacitive method.
That is a concern for me, because I was planning on using the tablet primarily for digital art. If it doesn't support pressure-sensitive input in Photoshop or Painter, then I'll be looking at the Thinkpad Tablet 2 or the Latitude 10 instead.
OK, this may mean it's revolutionary... or it's just awkward. It's not a laptop (because you hardly can use it on your lap without an adjustable display and a floppy keyboard, you *need* a table), it's too heavy and expensive for a tablet (and using Windows software with a touchscreen is just painful), it's too small and not powerful enough for an all-in-one desktop machine... So what is it? A bit of everything? Like Windows 8 is a bit of everything?
I can fully understand that MS is a bit in trouble right now and Surface certainly is fascinating, but still: I have no idea what this thing is actually good for. OK, there will be cases where it is just ideal, but as a mass product it looks like an epic fail to me.
I'm looking forward to a full review. If this thing has a standard SSD and the battery life is north of 8 hours it may be more than just a curiosity. If it's just an awkward ultrabook you can't use at you lap, hmm.
Its the perfect product for me. Its a tablet, ultrabook and portable desktop in one. I can watch videos on the train (who am I kidding, I'll be playing football manager), do some coding on an aeroplane and when I go to a mate's place I can hook it up to his network and play some starcraft. I can do all this - but I get something truly ultra-portable that also lrts me comfortably surf the web on the couch (laptops suck at this).
I think with a dock so that you can use a desktop monitor/keyboard/mouse when at work and then just pick it up and go, it has potential.
The i5 should be powerful enough for anything you'd want to do, though you'd want the 128gb version to be sure.
I'd like a haswell version... but I have no idea if they'll do a 6 month refresh or wait a year to refresh... hopefully they'll do a refresh on both surfaces right before back to school next year.
I think the lack of docking option will be one of the reasons to choose other devices over the Surface Pro. Also, it's a bit heavy. That may sound odd, but if it does weigh 2.0 lb. that will make it still makes it heavier than some of Samsung's products that have an 11.6" screen. Info is starting to leak out on the Lenovo Helix. So far that seems the most attractive of these new slate designs.
If you can get a device that is much like an iPad or other 10" tablet that only weighs about 0.3 lb more and is a fully powered Core i5 system that snaps into some expansion device as desired to give keyboard, pointing device, and extra battery, why bother using a laptop and a tablet. You can do all of the things on the device that you can't do on the tablet. Battery life will be somewhat less, but it seems like 6 hours of real world use will be realistic.
It seems like the gap in these designs vs the tablets may continue to shrink in the new Shark Bay products.
I was afraid that it might be that low. That automatically means you will want to bring a charger (in addition to your detachable keyboard). So rather than ending up with an all-day ultra-portable fully-windows-compatible device, you will end up with an ultrabook type usage scenario.
Also, if I look at my own line-up of devices dumbphone, ipad, 11" MBA, 12" Dell notebook and Dell desktop - I would not know where the Surface Pro would fit in. It is not an obvious improvement to anything and there are no gaps/niches that it nicely fills up.
If I look at the three key metrics - performance, weight/size and price - I get the sense that the Surface Pro is not a breakthrough product that has the right trade-off.
Finally, if I compare the ipad and MBA software, I would conclude that there are hardly any ipad apps that would not need an UI rewrite to make sense on the MBA (and vice versa). I'd be eager to see how the Surface Pro bridges that UI gap.
I love the premise of Thunderbolt, but honestly its gone nowhere and its going nowhere. The types of tasks it is best suited for just don't make sense in the mobile space, or are too niche(hey, I still want an external graphics adapter!). And for the rest, USB3 is cheaper to implement.
I don't think MS is crusading against TB. They just don't see any reason to invest in a tech that is not going anywhere anytime soon.
Well they seem to be failing on this one. Pretty much the only devices available a year in are external hard drives. Looks like another Firewire to me.
I'm sure it's price and the intel exclusivity problem. Can thunderbolt even be used with a tegra/arm chip? If not you will create even more confusion between rt/8 because the accessories won't be compatible. That would be a total disaster.
And then how many consumers actually have thunderbolt gear? I'm going to guess almost none.
I agree thunderbolt would be perfect, IF, it was currently popular, open, and widely available.
USB isn't as flexible, but it's what almost everybody is currently using.
Thunderbolt has great potential for a universal docking solution as it actual uses hardware acceleration for Audio and video where as USB docks use software emulation which puts all the load on the processor. Thunderbolt is opening to all vendors now so I hope we will see more application for it in the future. Thunderbolt would be ideal if you want to use this tablet at home with a simple docking solution and plan to do anything CPU intensive. But I admit it is niche at this time, but I look forward to further applications in the future. I have an iPad 2 right now, and an iPhone 4S, but don't plan to buy and apple computer, when it is time for a new tablet I'd want a convertible hybrid like the surface, and by then the OS, the hardware, and thunderbolt should be more mature. Even iPad and iPhone had to improve to where they are now.
This is almost the same price of the ultrabook convertibles, and it has no keyboard and it seems almost the same thickness.
The only good point it has a stylus. Windows 8 RT is just annoying to use without a stylus once we are in the desktop mode (while using office, windows explorer:S, control panel, etc.).
I think microsoft is just wasting everyone's time.
I dont understand the price comments - in Eurpoe the price of ultrabooks are well in excess of 1000 euros - this looks like it will be around 750 euros. About 200 euro more than an iPAD and for this you are getting real horse power, capable of high end multi tasking, total compatability with all PC programs, fast start up and come out of sleep mode, larger drive options, etc - a real computer as opposed to ARM based gadgets / tablets. You cant expect to get all this for the price of current ARM tablets - Android or Apple - you get what you pay for!!
One thing to keep in mind is the price comparisons between Europe and North America aren't usually apples-to-apples because the taxes are different.
European prices as listed typically include the value-added tax, while North American list prices exclude the sales tax(es), which vary across state, provincial and national borders.
If the tablet is sold in my neck of the woods at C$899 (it should since the US and Canadian dollars are at par, but Canadians usually get stuck with an additional premium), the provincial and federal sales taxes would push it to over C$1000, or $1140 with the keyboard cover.
What in blazes is wrong with these people? The intel i5 chip is about the same size as the apple A6, if not smaller. Aside from some NAND, there is literally nothing to justify the $900 price tag vs the $500 of the ipad. So where is this $400 coming from?
Are you for real? A porche is the same size as a corolla mostly smaller. Why is one thousands of dollars more than the other? You can't honestly he comparing the price based on respective chip sizes.
Yes. That's what I meant.. My objection was mostly to his comparison of i5 and a6 CPUs. As far as compute power, I think the comparison is valid at least relatively speaking. Its definitely not just another tablet. It is more like a computer using a tablet form factor. It may not work well at all as a tablet alone without the keyboard.
It might have a porche engine, but it's pulling a truck. It's got to run full blown windows. The arm tablets use much more efficient OS, so while they cpu's are slower the difference won't be anything like what it should be.
This is where Microsoft's performance hungry software - that drove the desktop upgrade cycles from long ago - crashes into the reality of performance constraint mobile devices. Full-blown Windows (like Adobe Flash) is just not very suited to lower performance devices.
I'm not saying there is no difference. But they surely cost about the same to make. Hell it is probably cheaper for intel to make an i5 than it is for apple to buy an A6X, but the fact remains one product is still $400 more expensive than the other.
A cheap plastic dock would make this at least a small and stylish all-in-one PC you could also use as a tablet by just plucking it out. Including this (so that people could just attach their display and keyboard/mouse to the dock and have at least a working PC) would sell this thing much better. It's not just a tablet, so why sell it as one?
I wish these had been a reality a few years ago. I love my hp elitebook tablet and it's made engineering school awesome, but wow this thing would be perfect for that use case.
Is having S0ix on the Pro important? (how do you pronounce it?) I don't know on what's S0ix, tried to google it but there are no definite article like wiki. Thanks in advance!
But who cares about thunderbolt really, nothing accepts it yet, who knows if or when many things will seems to take like 5 years before companies really start using new ports honestly.
BTW the $100 upgrade to 128 gb is much more reasonable than most tablets which only get you a max of 32gb for your $100 increase.
What I don't get is everyone's crusade /for/ Thunderbolt. Or HDMI for that matter. As long as DL-DVI, optical digital audio and USB3 work, all those new standards are, imho, completely obsolete.
I'm still waiting for cheap tablets that can compile x86...Guess I'll have to wait a few more years.
For the listed price, this equipment should include a GPS. My employer would probably buy these by the armload except for that omission, and bluetooth externals are not an option due to the complexity and additional points of failure they add. If an OEM can replicate this with similar or better battery life + an integrated GPS unit, count me in.
This is perfect for me. I have an aging accounting package at work, but upgrading is just too costly for me at the moment. My accounting package doesn't have barcode capability so orders and stock takes are a pain and I have to go back and forth between the warehouse and office with bits of paper doing double entry.
An add on module for barcode scanning costs $4,500 + $500 p.a for "support". A new accounting package + hardware + implementation and data migration is $20,000+
This allows me to do any ordering/stock taking anywhere in the factory directly into my accounting software as well as printing and emailing from said software and gives me more functionality than a new accounting package in terms of portability. This is an absolute BARGAIN for my needs and situation. I also have other business colleagues who are also getting one for the same reason. Not only does it give us what we're needing in our businesses, but when it's home time, it's more than capable as a tablet or PC for most light duty tasks.
This may not be the runaway success that the iPAD was, but it will not fail and I don't see that this is aimed squarely at the consumers in the traditional tablet market.
If my experiences with Surface are great, then in all probability, my next phone would be a WP8 phone and W8 upgrades at work so keep a consistent OS across all devices which is EXACTLY what Microsoft want. They don't want a fragmented OS experience like Apple and quite frankly, neither do I.
...isn't very impressive. I'd prefer the Samsung Chromebook loaded up with OpenSuse 12.x KDE or Linux Mint Cinnamon (for GTK+ integration), and all the parts in the screen plus the traditional big battery in the keyboard dock. Adding a bonus SSD in the keyboard dock (and eMMC storage in the tablet form factor) would also make a ton of sense. Ideally a 1600x900 panel.
Price based on Chromebook: should be around $600-700.
As an alternative, a Nexus 10 with previously mentioned operating systems, a kickstand and a surface-like keyboard would similarly be preferable.
This setup should come out to around $700.
*Sigh* GOOGLE PLEASE!
Or make PNaCl a reality, add more languages, and start supporting packages from other operating systems.
>I don't know what it is with Microsoft's crusade against Thunderbolt
Uh, they don't want to support locking customers in to an additional, needless upgrade cycle? I don't think I've ever seen you write something so irrational, Anand.
Do you know which digitizer pen tech Microsoft is using for the Surface Pro? eg Sony Duo - ntrig; Samsung - ATIV & Pro - Wacom Some people have mentioned that when using ntrig with Adobe there is no pressure sensitivity because ntrig has been unresponsive to Adobe in providing API assistance. Hence only Wacom digitizers have full range of sensors working on Adobe.
At that price its not worth it for a first gen surface Pro. Gen 2, when it uses Haswell and hopefully adds a TBolt port, will be quite impressive. Even at ULV power levels I suspect haswell will be a beast of a CPU, with a sufficient GPU to do most things. TBolt for a docking GPU, using actual windows instead of the neutered WRT, will let it actually replace most laptops.
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quiksilvr - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Because at that price it better.Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Nope, no keyboard...retrospooty - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
It does. ITs not bad priced either... You have to remember, this is a fully functional 64 bit windows intallation that can actually run enterprise apps at work, Also 1920x1080 at 10 inches is sweet.solipsism - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I'm not sure I agree the price is good. I'm sure there are some use cases one could make for this device but for the price I think most would be better served by a laptop.B3an - Saturday, December 1, 2012 - link
Try getting a laptop with a quality 1080p IPS/PLS touch screen at this price.You get Ultrabook hardware in this but with an actual good display. It's a very reasonable price.
BellaLohan - Sunday, December 2, 2012 - link
my friend's step-sister makes $69/hour on the laptop. She has been fired from work for six months but last month her payment was $19911 just working on the laptop for a few hours. (Click on menu Home more information)http://goo.gl/YRqXc
uhuznaa - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Just hope that your enterprise apps are still usable when running on a 10" touchscreen with 1920x1080 pixels...Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
It does not."Both versions come with a Surface pen, but neither includes a touch or type cover."
Impulses - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
RTFA... They clearly said it doesn't, it still undercuts any Win 8 i5 tablet in the market and comes close to the price point of some of the Atom ones. It's gonna force some price shifting in current and upcoming products IMO. Personally I think I prefer docking solutions like ASUS' (with an extra battery) but we'll see... 1920x1080 @ 10.6" is also gonna be interesting in the context of the traditional desktop & Office, I hope dpi scaling has improved substantially.Greg512 - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
The price isn't bad at all, really. The MacBook Air 11" doesn't have anywhere near this quality a screen and is in the same league processing-wise. Plus, from a design perspective, I think the Surface is at least competitive with Apple's notebooks. If Microsoft or a third party releases a keyboard-battery dock like you describe, I can see the Surface Pro being a truly viable competitor in the ultraportable space, unlike the Surface RT which I find underwhelming in every respect compared to other ARM-based tablets. Still, I would like to see a high-quality touchpad integrated into a dock-able Surface keyboard. Touching the screen to do everything seems impractical.Alexvrb - Sunday, December 2, 2012 - link
Do you honestly think they're not going to account for the DPI increase? It's something you can adjust yourself if necessary, too. But I am willing to be it'll be OK at stock settings."Oh man Jim, I can't believe we shipped these without checking the desktop or Office. Also we put a bunch of sharp rocks in the boxes instead of padding. Damnit! Ballmer is gonna give us the chair!"
GoodBytes - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I think this is an excellent price for what we are getting.All ultrabook's costs similar, and have only Windows 8 minimum resolution (1366 x 768) screen, using a shitty TN panel, and no digitize pen support, and they cost the same. And it's cheaper than the Mac Book Air, and you still don't have a digitize pen.
Impulses - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Umm, there's $1,000 ultrabooks in the market with 13" 1920x1080 IPS displays (better than the Air)... Larger batteries, more storage, and a real keyboard too. I don't think this comes close to making ultrabooks irrelevant but it should shake up some pricing and keep things competitive. Some Atom tablets have been priced much too high ($700) and some ultrabooks have been creeping up as well, this will be a nice counter balance.steven75 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
How is it cheaper than a MBA?The Surface Pro is $1019 for the tablet + keyboard.
The MacBook Air 11" is $999 for the laptop (that of course includes a keyboard) and a class-leading trackpad.
Other interesting things is they both have an i5, same size storage, and are about the same size/weight (Surface keyboard adds weight).
steven75 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
And you can use the MacBook Air without a desk to stand it on.menting - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
surface keyboard does add weight, but probably not 0.38 lb (the extra weight that MBA has over surface pro), but we'll say it's close enoughthickness and screen size are similar.
price, the surface pro is 20 bucks more than MBA.. considering that surface pro + keyboard is slightly lighter than MBA, we'll call this equal as well.
what the surface pro has that MBA doesn't is the resolution and touch screen.
GoodBytes - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
MBA has no:-> Touch screen.
-> Digitize pen support.
-> No micro-SD card. So I expend the storage of the Surface Pro, while I can't on the MacBook Air. Sure I use a USB memory key, but I have an ugly stick coming out of the side
Also, MBA:
-> Not a tablet
-> Can't run iOS App (Windows 8 runs Windows RT apps).
-> No XBox Music
-> I have to buy Windows. That makes the MacBook Air more expensive
-> Apple Windows 8 Boot camp drivers are laughable at best, even the ones from Windows 7 are a joke. Purposely made sucky to provide a horrible experience with Windows so that you have the illusion that MacOS is better just in terms of general experience (more responsive, more stable, etc).
So in the end, the MacBook Air is more expensive, and it's still not a tablet.
winterspan - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Can you point to a specific problem with BootCamp drivers in Windows 7? I run Win 7 Pro x64 on my MBA, and it runs great. Haven't had any driver issues whatsoever...ananduser - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Win does work on a mac but not as good as it could work. For starters poor AHCI/ACPI support massively impacts battery life. Using a mac as a windows only machine offers poor battery life from the start. No optimus type switching under bootcamp. Furthermore the idea that as a Windows user I have to resort to bootcamp's shoddy BIOS emulation is rather insulting. You can't strip OSX of the mac either.I don't understand why are you trying to sell macs to Windows users.
melgross - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
MBA can have up to 512GB SSD, and 8GB RAM. It has an SD card slot. Two USB2/3 ports, and Thunderbolt. And one of the best backlit keyboards in the business.It's much more capable.
bountygiver - Sunday, December 2, 2012 - link
You know upgrading to specs like this costs a bomb?After upgrading to the specs you mentioned... BOOM $ 2000+ I can buy 2 Surface Pro with type keyboard with that.
Everyone up there are comparing the $1019 Pro and $ 999 MBA
bountygiver - Sunday, December 2, 2012 - link
Also... the SD slot is only available on the 13" MBA, not the 11" version...kmmatney - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Oh Noes! No XBox Music!bountygiver - Sunday, December 2, 2012 - link
I bet he got a xbox, so xbox music is an advantage to himgorash - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Zenbook Prime costs about the same, has 1080p and probably better specs.Cygni - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
$899+$129 for the Type Cover so you can actually do anything with it? You've gotta be kidding. Too thick, heavy, and expensive to be a tablet or consumption device, too gimped to be a real productivity device.Just like the RT, destined to fail. Only this time, even more expensively.
menting - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
let me guess..Apple fan?Cygni - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Actually just a fan of good products. An overpriced convertible with a kickstand trying to be jack of all trades and master of none like this is just a flatout bad product. And as with so many of these 'niche filler' products that people keep cranking out year after year, it's not going to be around long before the plug is pulled because that's not what people want.gamoniac - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I agree with you on Surface Pro -- it is simply too pricey, even with the keyboard thrown in. Microsft better rethink about their pricing, coming from someone who really looked forward to Surface Pro...I am not so sure about Windows RT just yet though. I think it has the potential if Microsoft can open up and get some apps in the AppStore. Or else, there is little reason to go for RT.
melgross - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Hmm! Windows fanboy?TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
It's not the price that bothers me it's the form factor. It's either a cramped ultra-book or a chubby tablet. I don't want either.faizoff - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Man, I knew it was going to be higher than the RT version but this is kinda too pricey. At least if this was in the stores like BB I'd get an idea how it feels to navigate this thing. Don't have any MS stores near me to check them out.EnzoFX - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
How could anyone have expected this for anything lower than the $1000 price mark? It is not an arm tablet.steven75 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
It's has basically the same components as a MacBook Air yet is more expensive (after adding the keyboard).People seem to think Apple products are overpriced so when you price something MORE than the equivalent Apple product--yeah, people are going to complain.
Zoomer - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Yeah, they both have a 1366 by 768 (native) screen. Oh wait.kmmatney - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Microsoft can't sell products that are the same price as Apple. That's what they tried to do with the Zune...Alucard291 - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Well actually jokes aside but MBA is better spec than this trash >.>Taristin - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
It's unfortunate that it's got a proprietary digital ink digitizer and not something useful like a wacom, with pressure sensitivity. It would have made a great tablet for drawing on, but as far as Ive been able to see anyplace, its simply an inking stylus and nothing more.JLQ - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I haven't seen anyone (not even Microsoft) disclose what kind of digitizer technology they're using. Where are you pulling this information from?Taristin - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
From this source referring to Microsoft's patents for their ink system.http://www.patentbolt.com/2012/06/the-patent-behin...
jhoff80 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Pure speculation. It's just as likely that they use Perceptive Pixel (who they acquired shortly after the Surface announcement)'s technology which uses a projected capacitive method.Taristin - Saturday, December 1, 2012 - link
Either way it's unlikely that the surface pro supports pressure sensitivity. And if that is the case, they missed out on a large demographic.JLQ - Monday, December 3, 2012 - link
Thanks for the link.That is a concern for me, because I was planning on using the tablet primarily for digital art. If it doesn't support pressure-sensitive input in Photoshop or Painter, then I'll be looking at the Thinkpad Tablet 2 or the Latitude 10 instead.
uhuznaa - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
OK, this may mean it's revolutionary... or it's just awkward. It's not a laptop (because you hardly can use it on your lap without an adjustable display and a floppy keyboard, you *need* a table), it's too heavy and expensive for a tablet (and using Windows software with a touchscreen is just painful), it's too small and not powerful enough for an all-in-one desktop machine... So what is it? A bit of everything? Like Windows 8 is a bit of everything?I can fully understand that MS is a bit in trouble right now and Surface certainly is fascinating, but still: I have no idea what this thing is actually good for. OK, there will be cases where it is just ideal, but as a mass product it looks like an epic fail to me.
I'm looking forward to a full review. If this thing has a standard SSD and the battery life is north of 8 hours it may be more than just a curiosity. If it's just an awkward ultrabook you can't use at you lap, hmm.
althaz - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Its the perfect product for me. Its a tablet, ultrabook and portable desktop in one. I can watch videos on the train (who am I kidding, I'll be playing football manager), do some coding on an aeroplane and when I go to a mate's place I can hook it up to his network and play some starcraft. I can do all this - but I get something truly ultra-portable that also lrts me comfortably surf the web on the couch (laptops suck at this).andrewaggb - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I think with a dock so that you can use a desktop monitor/keyboard/mouse when at work and then just pick it up and go, it has potential.The i5 should be powerful enough for anything you'd want to do, though you'd want the 128gb version to be sure.
I'd like a haswell version... but I have no idea if they'll do a 6 month refresh or wait a year to refresh... hopefully they'll do a refresh on both surfaces right before back to school next year.
Kornfeld - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I think the lack of docking option will be one of the reasons to choose other devices over the Surface Pro. Also, it's a bit heavy. That may sound odd, but if it does weigh 2.0 lb. that will make it still makes it heavier than some of Samsung's products that have an 11.6" screen. Info is starting to leak out on the Lenovo Helix. So far that seems the most attractive of these new slate designs.If you can get a device that is much like an iPad or other 10" tablet that only weighs about 0.3 lb more and is a fully powered Core i5 system that snaps into some expansion device as desired to give keyboard, pointing device, and extra battery, why bother using a laptop and a tablet. You can do all of the things on the device that you can't do on the tablet. Battery life will be somewhat less, but it seems like 6 hours of real world use will be realistic.
It seems like the gap in these designs vs the tablets may continue to shrink in the new Shark Bay products.
Zodiark1593 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Now, I wish intel had a better GPU. That's probably the biggest thing lacking for me. :/I wonder if ULV Haswell will come with a quad core option? That would be quite awesome as well.
JAH - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Any guesses on how many hardware generations before we get to a W8Pro tablet for $500?bplewis24 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
So, I figured the price point would be north of $700, and it's actually $900.Now I also assumed battery life would be significantly inferior to ARM tablets. Any idea what we can expect there?
melgross - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
4 to 5 hours, in theory.Dekker - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
I was afraid that it might be that low. That automatically means you will want to bring a charger (in addition to your detachable keyboard). So rather than ending up with an all-day ultra-portable fully-windows-compatible device, you will end up with an ultrabook type usage scenario.Also, if I look at my own line-up of devices dumbphone, ipad, 11" MBA, 12" Dell notebook and Dell desktop - I would not know where the Surface Pro would fit in. It is not an obvious improvement to anything and there are no gaps/niches that it nicely fills up.
If I look at the three key metrics - performance, weight/size and price - I get the sense that the Surface Pro is not a breakthrough product that has the right trade-off.
Finally, if I compare the ipad and MBA software, I would conclude that there are hardly any ipad apps that would not need an UI rewrite to make sense on the MBA (and vice versa). I'd be eager to see how the Surface Pro bridges that UI gap.
The Saint - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Wow, that Thunderbolt comment was really out of left field.As a consumer not invested in the Apple ecosystem, is there any reason I should care about Thunderbolt? USB 3 seems completely fine for my needs.
Reflex - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I love the premise of Thunderbolt, but honestly its gone nowhere and its going nowhere. The types of tasks it is best suited for just don't make sense in the mobile space, or are too niche(hey, I still want an external graphics adapter!). And for the rest, USB3 is cheaper to implement.I don't think MS is crusading against TB. They just don't see any reason to invest in a tech that is not going anywhere anytime soon.
melgross - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Well, USB went nowhere until Apple added it to the iMac.Reflex - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Well they seem to be failing on this one. Pretty much the only devices available a year in are external hard drives. Looks like another Firewire to me.andrewaggb - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
I'm sure it's price and the intel exclusivity problem. Can thunderbolt even be used with a tegra/arm chip? If not you will create even more confusion between rt/8 because the accessories won't be compatible. That would be a total disaster.And then how many consumers actually have thunderbolt gear? I'm going to guess almost none.
I agree thunderbolt would be perfect, IF, it was currently popular, open, and widely available.
USB isn't as flexible, but it's what almost everybody is currently using.
Drgnx - Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - link
Thunderbolt has great potential for a universal docking solution as it actual uses hardware acceleration for Audio and video where as USB docks use software emulation which puts all the load on the processor. Thunderbolt is opening to all vendors now so I hope we will see more application for it in the future. Thunderbolt would be ideal if you want to use this tablet at home with a simple docking solution and plan to do anything CPU intensive. But I admit it is niche at this time, but I look forward to further applications in the future. I have an iPad 2 right now, and an iPhone 4S, but don't plan to buy and apple computer, when it is time for a new tablet I'd want a convertible hybrid like the surface, and by then the OS, the hardware, and thunderbolt should be more mature. Even iPad and iPhone had to improve to where they are now.ricardoduarte - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
This is almost the same price of the ultrabook convertibles, and it has no keyboard and it seems almost the same thickness.The only good point it has a stylus. Windows 8 RT is just annoying to use without a stylus once we are in the desktop mode (while using office, windows explorer:S, control panel, etc.).
I think microsoft is just wasting everyone's time.
wrack - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
If the 128GB is $999 with Keyboard & Touch Pen then I might think about it.EngSD - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I dont understand the price comments - in Eurpoe the price of ultrabooks are well in excess of 1000 euros - this looks like it will be around 750 euros. About 200 euro more than an iPAD and for this you are getting real horse power, capable of high end multi tasking, total compatability with all PC programs, fast start up and come out of sleep mode, larger drive options, etc - a real computer as opposed to ARM based gadgets / tablets. You cant expect to get all this for the price of current ARM tablets - Android or Apple - you get what you pay for!!Galcobar - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
One thing to keep in mind is the price comparisons between Europe and North America aren't usually apples-to-apples because the taxes are different.European prices as listed typically include the value-added tax, while North American list prices exclude the sales tax(es), which vary across state, provincial and national borders.
If the tablet is sold in my neck of the woods at C$899 (it should since the US and Canadian dollars are at par, but Canadians usually get stuck with an additional premium), the provincial and federal sales taxes would push it to over C$1000, or $1140 with the keyboard cover.
NXTwoThou - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
"including 5W USB for accessory charging" That's kind of sweet, so you don't use up the usb port on your tablet.Shadowmaster625 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
What in blazes is wrong with these people? The intel i5 chip is about the same size as the apple A6, if not smaller. Aside from some NAND, there is literally nothing to justify the $900 price tag vs the $500 of the ipad. So where is this $400 coming from?vkn - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Are you for real? A porche is the same size as a corolla mostly smaller. Why is one thousands of dollars more than the other?You can't honestly he comparing the price based on respective chip sizes.
melgross - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
This isn't a, I assume you meant, Porsche. It's just another tablet.vkn - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Yes. That's what I meant..My objection was mostly to his comparison of i5 and a6 CPUs. As far as compute power, I think the comparison is valid at least relatively speaking.
Its definitely not just another tablet. It is more like a computer using a tablet form factor. It may not work well at all as a tablet alone without the keyboard.
Dribble - Monday, December 3, 2012 - link
It might have a porche engine, but it's pulling a truck. It's got to run full blown windows. The arm tablets use much more efficient OS, so while they cpu's are slower the difference won't be anything like what it should be.kyuu - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
... Seriously? Apple A6 vs. Intel Ivy Bridge i5 = no difference, and this should cost the same as an iPad?I think the question is what are *you* smoking?
kmmatney - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Why does it need an i5? Wouldn't an i3 be more than enough horsepower?Dekker - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
This is where Microsoft's performance hungry software - that drove the desktop upgrade cycles from long ago - crashes into the reality of performance constraint mobile devices. Full-blown Windows (like Adobe Flash) is just not very suited to lower performance devices.Shadowmaster625 - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
I'm not saying there is no difference. But they surely cost about the same to make. Hell it is probably cheaper for intel to make an i5 than it is for apple to buy an A6X, but the fact remains one product is still $400 more expensive than the other.andrewaggb - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
sure.... but intel doesn't sell i5's and their supporting chips cheap, regardless of what they cost to make.Surface RT is more comparable to the ipad and has a similar price to go with it.
uhuznaa - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
A cheap plastic dock would make this at least a small and stylish all-in-one PC you could also use as a tablet by just plucking it out. Including this (so that people could just attach their display and keyboard/mouse to the dock and have at least a working PC) would sell this thing much better. It's not just a tablet, so why sell it as one?andrewaggb - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
I thought the same thing. I'm sure I can connect everything without a dock (maybe just need a usb hub), but it seems like a no brainer.RU482 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I've heard that Pegatron is manufacturing the Surface RT. Any speculation on who is manufacturing the Surface Pro for Microsoft??RU482 - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
also, any speculation on what model, or speed that i5 is?I guess there are only a couple ULV i5s...unless they ARE getting the mythical 10W CPU
spaz mk will - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I wish these had been a reality a few years ago. I love my hp elitebook tablet and it's made engineering school awesome, but wow this thing would be perfect for that use case.gadjade - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Is having S0ix on the Pro important? (how do you pronounce it?) I don't know on what's S0ix, tried to google it but there are no definite article like wiki. Thanks in advance!jhoff80 - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
S0ix = Windows 8's Connected Standby feature, which Ivy Bridge does not support.gadjade - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
Thanks, so will be waiting for a Haswell Ultrabook then as I'm more worried about the battery life than the innards.I really hope next year's Ultrabooks will have a double or fractional increase in battery life.
PubFiction - Thursday, November 29, 2012 - link
I am surprised the price is pretty good.But who cares about thunderbolt really, nothing accepts it yet, who knows if or when many things will seems to take like 5 years before companies really start using new ports honestly.
BTW the $100 upgrade to 128 gb is much more reasonable than most tablets which only get you a max of 32gb for your $100 increase.
Origin64 - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
What I don't get is everyone's crusade /for/ Thunderbolt. Or HDMI for that matter. As long as DL-DVI, optical digital audio and USB3 work, all those new standards are, imho, completely obsolete.I'm still waiting for cheap tablets that can compile x86...Guess I'll have to wait a few more years.
kyuu - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
Optical TOSLINK only supports up to Dolby Digital 5.1, AFAIK. DL-DVI on a portable device is completely impractical.Not that I care much about Thunderbolt. Its only real compelling use case is the niche realm of external GPU docks for mobile devices.
SignalPST - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
anyone know if the 1080p screen is confirmed to be an IPS?TerminalVelocity - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
For the listed price, this equipment should include a GPS. My employer would probably buy these by the armload except for that omission, and bluetooth externals are not an option due to the complexity and additional points of failure they add. If an OEM can replicate this with similar or better battery life + an integrated GPS unit, count me in.unclewoja - Friday, November 30, 2012 - link
This is perfect for me. I have an aging accounting package at work, but upgrading is just too costly for me at the moment. My accounting package doesn't have barcode capability so orders and stock takes are a pain and I have to go back and forth between the warehouse and office with bits of paper doing double entry.An add on module for barcode scanning costs $4,500 + $500 p.a for "support". A new accounting package + hardware + implementation and data migration is $20,000+
This allows me to do any ordering/stock taking anywhere in the factory directly into my accounting software as well as printing and emailing from said software and gives me more functionality than a new accounting package in terms of portability. This is an absolute BARGAIN for my needs and situation. I also have other business colleagues who are also getting one for the same reason. Not only does it give us what we're needing in our businesses, but when it's home time, it's more than capable as a tablet or PC for most light duty tasks.
This may not be the runaway success that the iPAD was, but it will not fail and I don't see that this is aimed squarely at the consumers in the traditional tablet market.
If my experiences with Surface are great, then in all probability, my next phone would be a WP8 phone and W8 upgrades at work so keep a consistent OS across all devices which is EXACTLY what Microsoft want. They don't want a fragmented OS experience like Apple and quite frankly, neither do I.
lmcd - Saturday, December 1, 2012 - link
...isn't very impressive. I'd prefer the Samsung Chromebook loaded up with OpenSuse 12.x KDE or Linux Mint Cinnamon (for GTK+ integration), and all the parts in the screen plus the traditional big battery in the keyboard dock. Adding a bonus SSD in the keyboard dock (and eMMC storage in the tablet form factor) would also make a ton of sense. Ideally a 1600x900 panel.Price based on Chromebook: should be around $600-700.
As an alternative, a Nexus 10 with previously mentioned operating systems, a kickstand and a surface-like keyboard would similarly be preferable.
This setup should come out to around $700.
*Sigh* GOOGLE PLEASE!
Or make PNaCl a reality, add more languages, and start supporting packages from other operating systems.
lmcd - Saturday, December 1, 2012 - link
Sorry for off-topic.Sahrin - Sunday, December 2, 2012 - link
>I don't know what it is with Microsoft's crusade against ThunderboltUh, they don't want to support locking customers in to an additional, needless upgrade cycle? I don't think I've ever seen you write something so irrational, Anand.
jconan - Sunday, December 2, 2012 - link
Do you know which digitizer pen tech Microsoft is using for the Surface Pro? eg Sony Duo - ntrig; Samsung - ATIV & Pro - Wacom Some people have mentioned that when using ntrig with Adobe there is no pressure sensitivity because ntrig has been unresponsive to Adobe in providing API assistance. Hence only Wacom digitizers have full range of sensors working on Adobe.vision33r - Wednesday, December 5, 2012 - link
The market is not ready to accept a $900 tablet. It doesn't matter how much Microsoft wants to spin it as a Pro or premium tablet.They've been trying to sell the Windows tablet that are over $800+ for more than 10 years.
The last good Windows 7 tab the Asus Slate cost $900 and sold maybe in the thousands that's about it.
The problem here is that it's too low end to be an ultrabook and too high for a tablet. You can buy Core i7 ULV ultrabook for $900 with 128GB SSD.
If the memory isn't upgradeable at 4GB, it's not very much to use with for a 64bit OS.
ilkhan - Saturday, December 29, 2012 - link
At that price its not worth it for a first gen surface Pro.Gen 2, when it uses Haswell and hopefully adds a TBolt port, will be quite impressive. Even at ULV power levels I suspect haswell will be a beast of a CPU, with a sufficient GPU to do most things. TBolt for a docking GPU, using actual windows instead of the neutered WRT, will let it actually replace most laptops.