Could you do a comparative review of the some of the mini-ITX cases(thermaltake, coolermaster, silverstone, lian-li and bitfenix) available in market? as most of these cases look similar on the outside(except for the bitfenix one) I am interested to know how they stack up against each other in terms of usability and cooling performance.
As far as I know, there isn't a better form factor + cooling concept case than the SG05 and its sucessors.
So, why haven't I bought one?
Cause Silverstone doesn't give them a nice build quality. Its iron, its got sharp edges inside and the plastic front had a crummy fit.
By far the greatest annoyance is, that Silverstone forces you into a crappy, non-modular PSU! Why oh why would you ever use a non-modular PSU in a tiny case where you want to avoid extra wires obstructing airflow???
A few years back, I went so far as posting the measurements and concept to Lian Li's support site, asking them to please make a form factor like that, so that we could finally have a high quality, slightly elongated version of the SG05...
I share your frustration towards the build quality of the SG05 and have plans to address the demand for an aluminum alternative to the SG05 (Kickstarter + batch custom order :p).
I'm interested in knowing 1) what Lian Li told you, 2) how serious you are about getting a new mini-itx case.
Modular PSU's take up more space because of the connector to the PSU chassis. When space is a premium, an extra inch or so can make a big difference in such a small enclosure. Plus it's easier (cheaper) to get higher effeciency in a PSU that is non modular due to resistive losses from extra inter connects. Not saying it cannot be done (obviously it can), but it would make the PSU more expensive, and the case it comes with more expensive.
Personally i prefer steel enclosures. The weight difference is negligible once you load it up with electronics, but the steel panels resonate sound less than aluminum panels. Plus steel is cheaper. I know a lot of people in the silent PC field who HATE aluminum enclosures with a passion for this very reason and refuse to buy them. So while making it aluminum might make some buy it, it will make others not buy it, and in the end only result in a more expensive overall product.
Now i do agree a nicer (aluminum) front panel instead of plastic would be nice. Wouldn't affect sound quality since it would have steel behind it, and should only increase cost slightly, but make it look much more professional.
You have to remember, nothing is ever going to be perfect for everyone, and so they have to make compromises hoping to appeal to the widest possible group of potential customers. For the last 5 years or so, the SG05 has been the standard all other ITX enclosures are compared to, so i think the compromises Silverstone has made were the right ones.
If you are still looking for an alternative to the SG05, I started a project with the help of Lian Li and SilverStone to build an alternative to the SG05.
I like the appriciative style for the product and the consumer oriented approach instead of a hysterical or hidden angry style.
Mini itx cases is an interesting product at the moment. Ib and 28nm gpu iis one thing, but performance on many other components is just not interesting anymore. Who gives about 400Mb/s ssd og 550Mb/s or 60 or 90 iops, in an workload only a minority uses very seldom.
One of the forum members have a powercolor 7550 running inside a sg05, forum is down for maintenance now, so no link.
I am very interested in this case, but would like to get noise down. Can i just fit silverstones own 12mm low noise fan instead? or what else is needed?
Any chance silverstone will upgrade to the gold standard ps?
If this can be a message to silverstone reps, can we have a lower noise, higher efficiency deluxe version ? :) - i mean its pretty cheap as it is, you got all the other parts in house come on !
The 450w power supply does get noisy. It's a very interesting case, my build is a few years old now and still going strong but it's been considerably modified over the years.
I bought the original with the 300w PSU, had an i5 760 and a GTS250 back then. When I wanted to upgrade GPU the ST450-SF wasn't out so I went for a modular ATX PSU. A corsair H50 and a GTX570HD
Had to give up the 3.5" bay for the H50 and the optical & 2.5" bay for the PSU, then I fitted 500GB laptop HDD and a 60GB SSD to the botton on the case and problem solved.
Silverstone has several other variants of the Sugo case with 600W PSUs. Using one of them should kill the PSU noise since anything smaller than a dual GPU card is unlikely to put enough load on it to ramp the fans above idle.
The coolermaster has some good points, but it needed endless mods. I pull the cheesy face plate off it and mounted an aluminum grill, It added air but the case needs custom cables to allow for proper airflow. So if you want a nice machine with the cooker master be prepared to break out a lot of tools. I am still playing with it.
When I am done It will have an;
i7 3770k
a 256gb msata ssd
a full size samsung blu ray
a full size seasonic psu
a geforce gtx 670
all noctua fans .
It will be nice when I am done but it is not worth the effort.
My guess is this silverstone is better by far in terms of ease of assembly
Actually there's a *very* good reason to go with what you consider an unworthy 300W PSU: Better power efficiency at low power usage. Since it is almost impossible to cram equipment for 300W max consumption into such a case and even that is much more likely to run at <20% power utilisation rather than 80% it simply does not make any sense to have >300W PSU in a mini-ITX case.
If you aren't into heavy gaming (I just program) this thing will idle well below 50W and will hardly go over 150W if you load it.
The 300W supply will be much more efficient in this kind of usage. I wish the review had added the power used in idle and under load (with and without an additional graphics card). That would provide the curious with the right information if 300W is enough for them.
For those of us who care about the environment (or like saving on the energy bill) it is quite hard to find a low Wattage good quality power supply. Compliments to Silverstone to providing one. Hopefully there will be a 200W option next year :)
Just to add to this: More efficiency = less heat generated in the PSU for a given load. With these SFX PSUs being limited to 80mm fans, they can't really move much air without ramping the speed up to audible levels. It's even worse because these cases are more likely to be sitting on your desk close to your ears.
That said, it really depends on the design of the specific PSUs, and since the power draw is so small anyway, any small differences in efficiency might not be very noticeable in practice. A good 450W will probably not be significantly worse than a budget 300W for example. I certainly wouldn't give up something like front panel USB 3.0 just to get the smaller PSU, for example.
I am with the 300W fans, and would go even more extreme towards an external 200W brick...... and a smaller enclosure. enclosures are like suitcases, each size has its justification!
I also own such a MiniITX case, just with a different front (SG06). I run it with a quad core Intel CPU and EVGA GTX560Ti. Runs fine and silent. Silent but only because I modded the case.
The ODD isn't really worth the wasted space. I haven't used it at all since I own the case (1 year), but because some people still use DVD or BluRay they should keep it, maybe optional? The 3.5" clamp is somehow stupid, better inlcude a few 2.5" holdings. (That's what I did) Make an open air construction and place it in front of the front intake fan. Then customers can add 3 or 4 2.5" HDDs, like 1 SSD, 3 RAID 1TB drives. Because the HDD holding is a lightweight construction, they don't block the air flow and get cooled fine. (I put 3 HDDs in a closed custom made shock absorbing case (tube) with a low spinning fan which blows air through the tube, thus I don't hear the HDDs at all. But such a construction might be too expensive for mass production) But the really annoying part is the PSU fan. The fan is too small. In the current design most of the air must get blown through the PSU fan. The heated air from the HDDs, Mainboard and mainly CPU + the heat produced by the PSU must get pushed through the tiny PSU with a 80mm fan. That's idiotic. It's loud and reduces the lifetime of any PSU drastically. I had to replace the 80mm fan with a 120mm fan and made a custom case for the PSU, now it's silent and cool. The case itself is very clairaudient because of the huge amount of air holes. This makes the noisy PSU even more annyoing and difficult to make the PC silent with standard components.
Because the PSU issue isn't solveable with the current design and default PSU cases, and the case is very clairaudient at all, Silverstone should redesign the whole case and optimize the airflow. Like putting the PSU at the front, reduce the amount of air holes but optimize the air flow, maybe put the mainboard on the side & GPU to the bottom (better airflow for the mainboard, GPU fan noise gets absorbed from the desk), or anything else.
It's difficult to build a small system which is both powerful and silent with standard components. For the money it's a great case, but if you want it silent, you have to mod it, which is the only real drawback I have. Once you've done that, you'll have a powerful PC in the smallest case possible.
Having it pull air from inside the case then exhausting it will aid throughput of air through the entire case and lead to better cooling throughout, particluarly if your other fans are orientated to complement this push-pull effect. Not recommended for low quality PSUs but as SilverStone are supplying both the case and PSU the fact they've orientated it this way suggests that they're confident it provides a net benefit.
I've been reading reviews on Newegg on the older version of this case with the 450W PSU and a lot of people are saying that the connector included in the PSU is wrong for slim optical drives and you need to buy a separate adapter in order for it to work. Is this still the case with this? If it is, it's a pretty big oversight.
You do, but the power connector for slimline optical drives is weird to begin with and unique to them. The one I tested with (provided by SilverStone) actually included the adapter.
In the past Silverstone did NOT provide these, and it cost around $10+shipping to buy one from Newegg.
Dustin, can you verify with your Silverstone contact that these new versions DO come with the required connector or adapter?
It would be best if the connector was actually built into the PSU wiring harness, something which Antec was able to do with their ISK 300 and ISK 310 series cases. I don't see why Silverstone has been unable to do that, since they should be able to tell the PSU manufacturer (FSP) to include the required connector.
I have owned this particular case in the 300 watt variety. I found the included PSU way too loud for a case like this. To me the cool thing about mini ITX is having a nice small case with enough horse power for most tasks. I now own a Lian Li case that fits a full ATX PSU and is only slightly larger. It is completely inaudible though. No room for extra video card. My advice would be to choose a case that fits your needs, but definitely a full ATX power supply.
I own the Lian Li PC-Q07B. It's higher, but not as deep as the Silverstone. It also misses the front audio connectors and no USB 3.0, but these were not deal breakers for me. The case is really quiet though.
I own this and its bigger brother, the SG07. They are both great cases and love them both.
The problem I have is that, in the end, they are still 'too big' to just sit on top of the desk next to your monitor (like the mac mini). So they sit on the ground like other cases (where they look silly) or you buy yourself a small drawer for them to sit on top of. I did the latter, so I at least have a bunch of storage for the small things. But they still take up just as much floor space as a tower, imho.
What do other people do? Where do you place your beautiful sugo cases?
I have a large desk which also goes around a corner. Because the desk is in front of a window and I don't want that the 24" monitor obscures the light from the window on the desk I placed the monitor in this corner, so I have more and brighter space for work and the monitor with keyboard don't waste that much space. Diagonal behind the monitor I placed the Sugo case. It fits perfectly there, looks great and the cabels don't have a long way, so they are almost invisible, too.
If you don't change the PSU fan and use it as it is, it will get audible and noisy if you tax the PC.
However, I changed the PSU fan to a 120mm one and build a new case for the PSU which guides the air, speed regulated every fan, dampened the noise of the HDDs and bought the EVGA GTX560Ti, which is based on the NVidia reference design, which uses a very quite fan. And unlike more silent looking GTX560Ti cards, the stock NVidia design also cools the VRM, thus the fan speed can get reduced further without issues and doesn't ramp up as fast as the more silent looking designs. I also modded the GPU Bios to run the fan at lower speeds and undervolt the GPU.
But you're right, I can hear it if I'm working alone, because of the GPU fan and the open design of the Sugo case. Not because of the air flow but because of the GPU fan's bearing, which is still very very quiet. I haven't found the time to replace this fan with a higher quality one. It's not annoying, because it's really silent and at a low frequency, but yeah, still audible if the environment is silent.
I would go with the drawer idea personally. PCs sitting on desks suck. It doesn't matter how quiet you get it, you will notice the noise while sitting at the desk alone in the room. And anyone who is in IT or Development or any other mentally demanding job will tell you, even normally mild or even nearly unnoticeable noises can cause you great frustration.
I like the idea of putting this in a sliding drawer. That way when you needed to work on the machine's innards you could just slide it out and pop the cover and work right at your desk. And when you're actually using the PC within, you could slide it back to the end of the desk, and if you mounted the drawer underneath the desk, you'd never notice it.
Great review as always, Dustin. I have built about a dozen PCs (for myself, that is) but I haven't done it since 2003! I've been buying Dell XPS systems since then, as it was worth it to me to purchase fully assembled products with generally nice cases, believe it or not, rather than going through the rigamarole of purchasing all the separate parts and praying to the gods that everything works well with everything else. The manufacturer mashups can be pretty frightening. At any rate, your review here makes me want to buy one of these as I've had increasing interest in mini-ITX systems as of late. Might just have to workout a project plan! :-)
I am so glad to see more reviews of mITX cases. I believe as the reviewer does that these cases are the future of enclosures. I also believe that optical drives are legacy drives as well. All the reviews of mITX cases come to the same conclusion that the external bays seriously compromise the overall design of the case. Small cases are always going to be a set of trade offs but it seems obvious the trade off should be to remove the external bays but not a single case does. It seems so obvious that improved thermal and acoustic performance is more important than the ability to have an optical drive that is used once or twice in the life of the system.
If your taking requests for future reviews I would nominate the Lian Li PC-Q16A. I'm worried it doesn't support a discrete GPU at which point I would retract my request. I can't find any information or reviews about it of any depth so I can't be sure if it does or not.
there is not a single mITX/mATX case out there without an external (optical) drive bay. Not a single case maker is producing a box where you can put in a mb, a gpu, some 2.5/3.5 drive(s) and call it a day.
You get countless towers, med towers, mini towers etc with numerous external bays in all kinds of styles and colours.. but not a single case without an external drive bay.
Check out the Lian Li PC-Q25 series. It is like the PC-Q08, except supporting more 3.5" drives and no external drive bay. And yes, gigantic graphics cards are supported.
Alternately, for those who don't need discrete GPUs there are plenty of mITX cases which don't have external drive bays.
I'm building a new mITX system this month to be my primary workstation/game rig. So far this case seems to be my case despite it not having very well ventilated drive bays. Anyone have alternate suggestions?
Intel core i7-3770 Nvidia GTX 660ti 16GB RAM 128GB 2.5" SSD No Optical No 3.5" hard drive
For those willing to spend more (~$200) I'd recommend the SG08 . Although slightly taller and about 2 inches deeper, the extra room allows for a more efficient design I think.
Some differences:
- HD tray accommodates two 2.5" drives underneath and has silicone grommets to reduce vibration from the 3.5".
- 600W bronze rated PSU
-180mm Air Penetrator fan (which you can easily replace - I went for a Corsair H80 and replaced the noisy stock fans with one 38mm thick intake fan).
-Nice looking brushed aluminum front panel.
Easily got a mild 4.2GHz overclock on an i5-3750k with the H80's fan controller on low speed. Can always ramp things up if you don't mind a bit more noise.
Anyways it was my first build and came together effortlessly. I gave it to my dad to replace his 10+ year old crappy Gateway... It's not cheap but neither are the components you would put in a case like this, so I think it's worth it.
Having looked at both, from my recollection the depth of the SG08 is about the same as a regular PC tower, and a 5" difference from the SG05 (if it is the one I'm thinking of).
Perhaps not an issue for some, but that difference was for me as I was sticking it inside a drawer. Otherwise, I'd just stick with the Prodigy or a mini tower for flexibility. Even if it's for home entertainment, TV stands generally space for a DVD player, and you can get a horizontal tower to fit in those.
I must be in the minority, because no one else seems to mind that the material of the cases reviewed are not stated up front in the specification box. I am a snob when it comes to cases, and the first thing I want to know is if it is made from aluminum or not.
It isn't, but in my experience aluminum isn't necessarily desirable or even appropriate for the design. The SG05 uses plastic for the front fascia and steel for the chassis, and while a brushed aluminum fascia might be more attractive, the SECC steel is exactly the right call for the chassis itself.
Keep in mind that the aluminum someone like Lian Li or Cubitek uses is also going to be different than the aluminum SilverStone uses.
With all the recent buzz about SFF/ITX and the inevitability that PCs must shrink or die It would be great if we had a dedicated SFF forum here at Anandtech.
Currently all SFF talk is drowned out by laptop and gaming posts, im sure there would be better discussion in its own home, currently the sheer volume of laptop posts deters anyone from even trying to discuss SFF, it feels pointless posting discussion if its just going to disappear.
Fantastic review otherwise, really enjoying the series, im determined that my current ATX builds (x3) will be my last and anything i need going forwards can be done on either SFF graphics free, or a uATX for a main gaming box with several hdd.
In my opinion (yours may vary), not being able to use a power supply of my choice is a deal breaker. Maybe one day the standard size of components like power supplies and graphics cards will go down to where I'm comfortable with Mini-ITX, but until then, micro ATX is the lowest I'm willing to go for a gaming rig. HTPC...okay, you got me there :)
You can easily swap out the PSU. It is a standard "SFX" size that you can find replacements for at Newegg and other popular retailers.
Besides the two Silverstone PSUs, FSP (who makes them for Silverstone) makes these PSUs in 300/400/450 wattages. Heck, Seasonic makes them in 300/350W. Silverstone has a new one that is 450W (maybe made by Enhance) but fully modular and 80Plus Gold!!! I used to own an Enermax 320W. SPI (Sparkle, part of FSP) has 300/350W versions. Some of these companies such as SPI/FSP also make lower wattage units down to 180W, but AFAIK those are older and less efficient designs.
There are also a bunch of lesser quality units on the market from companies like SilenX, Ultra, Apex, Athena Power, etc. but I wouldn't normally use them.
I've owned the USB 2.0 variant for 2 years and the 450W PSU is very quiet, same for the front 120 mm fan. I would deinitely recommend for a SFF PC build. I am using a Sandy Bridge corei3 with a 60 GB SSD, a 500 GB HDD, and a slim ODD.
Thanks for the great review! I actually just pulled the trigger on a SB08 in hopes that it does a better job with noise / temps (and aesthetics). It'll be interesting to see how it compares with a Z77 + 3750k + 660Ti.
Also, I wanted to echo the comment about creating a SFF forum section that is separate from laptops. It would be nice to try and get some more discussion going around these types of builds without being buried.
Also a complete system based on this chassis can be had for $420- way beyond. This is the smallest possible system that can support a dual slot GPU! Look up the PICS for the SG05-bb on Xoxide.com or on google and you will find it next to a 12oz pop can. Small! I can't wait to build this pc with a Corsair H60 watercooler,GtX 660 ti,Core i7 3770k,Asrock z77 mini itx, and 16 gb of Corsair Vengence Ram.
Heres' what I have: SG05BB case... I7-3770k CPU Asus P8z77i-Deluxe motherboard OCZ Vertex4 Sata3(6G) 256GB SSD (2.5") Seagate Hybrid HD (4GB SSD w/ 500GB 7200) (2.5")
I really like this case.. I'll harp on two things that could use work..but other than that...fine case!
wish harddive mounting were more flexible... lot of extra work and wasted space to use two 2.5 drives...like I have in my setup.... I will get out a dremel and rivit gone..and rework this someday... for now.. I put the SSD in the native 2.5" space... then I used the adapter that came with the SSD to mount the 2.5" HD in the 3.5" space... again cumbersome, time consuming and a waste of steel and space.
The front 120mm fan is louder than I would expect at slow speeds.. I will yank this for a quieter model.
Again.. I like this case... I'm at 4.225Ghz on all 4 cores of the I7, 1250Mhz on the built in HD4000 IGP and at DDR2400 (1200Mhz) on the 16GB of memory. Stock cooling... stock intel hsf and stock silverstone case fan...
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Chaitanya - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Could you do a comparative review of the some of the mini-ITX cases(thermaltake, coolermaster, silverstone, lian-li and bitfenix) available in market? as most of these cases look similar on the outside(except for the bitfenix one) I am interested to know how they stack up against each other in terms of usability and cooling performance.n13L5 - Sunday, August 26, 2012 - link
yes, would be nice.As far as I know, there isn't a better form factor + cooling concept case than the SG05 and its sucessors.
So, why haven't I bought one?
Cause Silverstone doesn't give them a nice build quality. Its iron, its got sharp edges inside and the plastic front had a crummy fit.
By far the greatest annoyance is, that Silverstone forces you into a crappy, non-modular PSU! Why oh why would you ever use a non-modular PSU in a tiny case where you want to avoid extra wires obstructing airflow???
A few years back, I went so far as posting the measurements and concept to Lian Li's support site, asking them to please make a form factor like that, so that we could finally have a high quality, slightly elongated version of the SG05...
wahaha686 - Saturday, September 8, 2012 - link
n13L5,I share your frustration towards the build quality of the SG05 and have plans to address the demand for an aluminum alternative to the SG05 (Kickstarter + batch custom order :p).
I'm interested in knowing 1) what Lian Li told you, 2) how serious you are about getting a new mini-itx case.
Let me know
sean.crees - Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - link
Modular PSU's take up more space because of the connector to the PSU chassis. When space is a premium, an extra inch or so can make a big difference in such a small enclosure. Plus it's easier (cheaper) to get higher effeciency in a PSU that is non modular due to resistive losses from extra inter connects. Not saying it cannot be done (obviously it can), but it would make the PSU more expensive, and the case it comes with more expensive.Personally i prefer steel enclosures. The weight difference is negligible once you load it up with electronics, but the steel panels resonate sound less than aluminum panels. Plus steel is cheaper. I know a lot of people in the silent PC field who HATE aluminum enclosures with a passion for this very reason and refuse to buy them. So while making it aluminum might make some buy it, it will make others not buy it, and in the end only result in a more expensive overall product.
Now i do agree a nicer (aluminum) front panel instead of plastic would be nice. Wouldn't affect sound quality since it would have steel behind it, and should only increase cost slightly, but make it look much more professional.
You have to remember, nothing is ever going to be perfect for everyone, and so they have to make compromises hoping to appeal to the widest possible group of potential customers. For the last 5 years or so, the SG05 has been the standard all other ITX enclosures are compared to, so i think the compromises Silverstone has made were the right ones.
wahaha686 - Monday, December 31, 2012 - link
n13L5,If you are still looking for an alternative to the SG05, I started a project with the help of Lian Li and SilverStone to build an alternative to the SG05.
The information can be found here:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1717132
gandergray - Friday, February 8, 2013 - link
wahaha686:The NCase M1 is impressive. I hope you are able to achieve a production run. I'll support a funding effort.
Zhelus - Monday, August 12, 2013 - link
holy mother of god i just stumbled upon the meeting of the ncase m1 teamtechexperience - Thursday, September 12, 2013 - link
and now I, too, bear witness on this union. Can't believe I stumbled upon this after all these years.457R4LDR34DKN07 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I sprung for the sg08 and z77, design is very similar and due to the 130mm fan needed a right angle slimline SATA power adapter.krumme - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Thank you Dustin for another excellent review.I like the appriciative style for the product and the consumer oriented approach instead of a hysterical or hidden angry style.
Mini itx cases is an interesting product at the moment. Ib and 28nm gpu iis one thing, but performance on many other components is just not interesting anymore. Who gives about 400Mb/s ssd og 550Mb/s or 60 or 90 iops, in an workload only a minority uses very seldom.
One of the forum members have a powercolor 7550 running inside a sg05, forum is down for maintenance now, so no link.
I am very interested in this case, but would like to get noise down. Can i just fit silverstones own 12mm low noise fan instead? or what else is needed?
Any chance silverstone will upgrade to the gold standard ps?
If this can be a message to silverstone reps, can we have a lower noise, higher efficiency deluxe version ? :) - i mean its pretty cheap as it is, you got all the other parts in house come on !
doctormonroe - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Silverstone have already released a SFF PSU that is 80 Plus Gold certified:http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=342
Jackattak - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
By the gods that's one hot little number, and modular to boot! I looked it up on Newegg and they're selling it for $99USD right meow!http://www.Newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=17...
fr500 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
The 450w power supply does get noisy. It's a very interesting case, my build is a few years old now and still going strong but it's been considerably modified over the years.I bought the original with the 300w PSU, had an i5 760 and a GTS250 back then. When I wanted to upgrade GPU the ST450-SF wasn't out so I went for a modular ATX PSU. A corsair H50 and a GTX570HD
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/149537/Pictures/Photos/DS...
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/149537/Pictures/Photos/DS...
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/149537/Pictures/Photos/DS...
Still going strong, cool and quiet behind my TV (CPU idles at 27c and gets to 50 under load)
fr500 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Had to give up the 3.5" bay for the H50 and the optical & 2.5" bay for the PSU, then I fitted 500GB laptop HDD and a 60GB SSD to the botton on the case and problem solved.DanNeely - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Silverstone has several other variants of the Sugo case with 600W PSUs. Using one of them should kill the PSU noise since anything smaller than a dual GPU card is unlikely to put enough load on it to ramp the fans above idle.fr500 - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Mine is not noisy :) it has an ATX PSU as you can see in the picturesImSpartacus - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
"The great thing about reviewing these Mini-ITX cases is that oftentimes there just isn't a whole lot to them,"Lol! I love hearing little reviewer-centric quips like that.
...so I guess this means you have time to do even MORE reviews, eh?
philipma1957 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
The coolermaster has some good points, but it needed endless mods. I pull the cheesy face plate off it and mounted an aluminum grill, It added air but the case needs custom cables to allow for proper airflow. So if you want a nice machine with the cooker master be prepared to break out a lot of tools. I am still playing with it.When I am done It will have an;
i7 3770k
a 256gb msata ssd
a full size samsung blu ray
a full size seasonic psu
a geforce gtx 670
all noctua fans .
It will be nice when I am done but it is not worth the effort.
My guess is this silverstone is better by far in terms of ease of assembly
owned66 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
i built one a while agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXOl7TKVwLM
Daniel Egger - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Actually there's a *very* good reason to go with what you consider an unworthy 300W PSU: Better power efficiency at low power usage. Since it is almost impossible to cram equipment for 300W max consumption into such a case and even that is much more likely to run at <20% power utilisation rather than 80% it simply does not make any sense to have >300W PSU in a mini-ITX case.janderk - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
This is exactly what I wanted to say.If you aren't into heavy gaming (I just program) this thing will idle well below 50W and will hardly go over 150W if you load it.
The 300W supply will be much more efficient in this kind of usage. I wish the review had added the power used in idle and under load (with and without an additional graphics card). That would provide the curious with the right information if 300W is enough for them.
For those of us who care about the environment (or like saving on the energy bill) it is quite hard to find a low Wattage good quality power supply. Compliments to Silverstone to providing one. Hopefully there will be a 200W option next year :)
Metaluna - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Just to add to this: More efficiency = less heat generated in the PSU for a given load. With these SFX PSUs being limited to 80mm fans, they can't really move much air without ramping the speed up to audible levels. It's even worse because these cases are more likely to be sitting on your desk close to your ears.That said, it really depends on the design of the specific PSUs, and since the power draw is so small anyway, any small differences in efficiency might not be very noticeable in practice. A good 450W will probably not be significantly worse than a budget 300W for example. I certainly wouldn't give up something like front panel USB 3.0 just to get the smaller PSU, for example.
batteries4ever - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I am with the 300W fans, and would go even more extreme towards an external 200W brick...... and a smaller enclosure. enclosures are like suitcases, each size has its justification!RaistlinZ - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I'm sorry, but your choice of PSU really isn't going to have one iota of difference on the global environment. Seriously.Zap - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
To paraphrase a common quote:"Every journey begins with a single step."
UpSpin - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
As always, great review.I also own such a MiniITX case, just with a different front (SG06). I run it with a quad core Intel CPU and EVGA GTX560Ti. Runs fine and silent. Silent but only because I modded the case.
The ODD isn't really worth the wasted space. I haven't used it at all since I own the case (1 year), but because some people still use DVD or BluRay they should keep it, maybe optional?
The 3.5" clamp is somehow stupid, better inlcude a few 2.5" holdings. (That's what I did) Make an open air construction and place it in front of the front intake fan. Then customers can add 3 or 4 2.5" HDDs, like 1 SSD, 3 RAID 1TB drives. Because the HDD holding is a lightweight construction, they don't block the air flow and get cooled fine. (I put 3 HDDs in a closed custom made shock absorbing case (tube) with a low spinning fan which blows air through the tube, thus I don't hear the HDDs at all. But such a construction might be too expensive for mass production)
But the really annoying part is the PSU fan. The fan is too small. In the current design most of the air must get blown through the PSU fan. The heated air from the HDDs, Mainboard and mainly CPU + the heat produced by the PSU must get pushed through the tiny PSU with a 80mm fan. That's idiotic. It's loud and reduces the lifetime of any PSU drastically. I had to replace the 80mm fan with a 120mm fan and made a custom case for the PSU, now it's silent and cool.
The case itself is very clairaudient because of the huge amount of air holes. This makes the noisy PSU even more annyoing and difficult to make the PC silent with standard components.
Because the PSU issue isn't solveable with the current design and default PSU cases, and the case is very clairaudient at all, Silverstone should redesign the whole case and optimize the airflow. Like putting the PSU at the front, reduce the amount of air holes but optimize the air flow, maybe put the mainboard on the side & GPU to the bottom (better airflow for the mainboard, GPU fan noise gets absorbed from the desk), or anything else.
It's difficult to build a small system which is both powerful and silent with standard components. For the money it's a great case, but if you want it silent, you have to mod it, which is the only real drawback I have. Once you've done that, you'll have a powerful PC in the smallest case possible.
Olaf van der Spek - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Why doesn't the PSU take in fresh air via the top? Would seem like a much better design.Socaddict - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I have the PSU in mine flipped. Didn't take any real work to sort out.hybridE4t - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Having it pull air from inside the case then exhausting it will aid throughput of air through the entire case and lead to better cooling throughout, particluarly if your other fans are orientated to complement this push-pull effect. Not recommended for low quality PSUs but as SilverStone are supplying both the case and PSU the fact they've orientated it this way suggests that they're confident it provides a net benefit.Jumpman23 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I've been reading reviews on Newegg on the older version of this case with the 450W PSU and a lot of people are saying that the connector included in the PSU is wrong for slim optical drives and you need to buy a separate adapter in order for it to work. Is this still the case with this? If it is, it's a pretty big oversight.Dustin Sklavos - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
You do, but the power connector for slimline optical drives is weird to begin with and unique to them. The one I tested with (provided by SilverStone) actually included the adapter.Zap - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Slimline optical drives use a slimline power connector:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#Slimline_c...
In the past Silverstone did NOT provide these, and it cost around $10+shipping to buy one from Newegg.
Dustin, can you verify with your Silverstone contact that these new versions DO come with the required connector or adapter?
It would be best if the connector was actually built into the PSU wiring harness, something which Antec was able to do with their ISK 300 and ISK 310 series cases. I don't see why Silverstone has been unable to do that, since they should be able to tell the PSU manufacturer (FSP) to include the required connector.
Zap - Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - link
UPDATE:I purchased the latest SG05-450-USB3 (exact one as in the review) and it did NOT come with the power connector/adapter for the slim optical drive.
Silverstone, you have FAILED again. Antec was able to include one in their ISK 300/310 series which use slim optical drives. Why can't you guys?
AgeOfPanic - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I have owned this particular case in the 300 watt variety. I found the included PSU way too loud for a case like this. To me the cool thing about mini ITX is having a nice small case with enough horse power for most tasks. I now own a Lian Li case that fits a full ATX PSU and is only slightly larger. It is completely inaudible though. No room for extra video card. My advice would be to choose a case that fits your needs, but definitely a full ATX power supply.randinspace - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Which Lian Li case?londiste - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
try pc-q08bAgeOfPanic - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
I own the Lian Li PC-Q07B. It's higher, but not as deep as the Silverstone. It also misses the front audio connectors and no USB 3.0, but these were not deal breakers for me. The case is really quiet though.spcarr - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I own this and its bigger brother, the SG07. They are both great cases and love them both.The problem I have is that, in the end, they are still 'too big' to just sit on top of the desk next to your monitor (like the mac mini). So they sit on the ground like other cases (where they look silly) or you buy yourself a small drawer for them to sit on top of. I did the latter, so I at least have a bunch of storage for the small things. But they still take up just as much floor space as a tower, imho.
What do other people do? Where do you place your beautiful sugo cases?
UpSpin - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I have a large desk which also goes around a corner. Because the desk is in front of a window and I don't want that the 24" monitor obscures the light from the window on the desk I placed the monitor in this corner, so I have more and brighter space for work and the monitor with keyboard don't waste that much space.Diagonal behind the monitor I placed the Sugo case. It fits perfectly there, looks great and the cabels don't have a long way, so they are almost invisible, too.
Jackattak - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
So based on your earlier post (above) it must be audible if/when you're working alone? Just curious.UpSpin - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
If you don't change the PSU fan and use it as it is, it will get audible and noisy if you tax the PC.However, I changed the PSU fan to a 120mm one and build a new case for the PSU which guides the air, speed regulated every fan, dampened the noise of the HDDs and bought the EVGA GTX560Ti, which is based on the NVidia reference design, which uses a very quite fan. And unlike more silent looking GTX560Ti cards, the stock NVidia design also cools the VRM, thus the fan speed can get reduced further without issues and doesn't ramp up as fast as the more silent looking designs. I also modded the GPU Bios to run the fan at lower speeds and undervolt the GPU.
But you're right, I can hear it if I'm working alone, because of the GPU fan and the open design of the Sugo case. Not because of the air flow but because of the GPU fan's bearing, which is still very very quiet. I haven't found the time to replace this fan with a higher quality one. It's not annoying, because it's really silent and at a low frequency, but yeah, still audible if the environment is silent.
Jackattak - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I would go with the drawer idea personally. PCs sitting on desks suck. It doesn't matter how quiet you get it, you will notice the noise while sitting at the desk alone in the room. And anyone who is in IT or Development or any other mentally demanding job will tell you, even normally mild or even nearly unnoticeable noises can cause you great frustration.I like the idea of putting this in a sliding drawer. That way when you needed to work on the machine's innards you could just slide it out and pop the cover and work right at your desk. And when you're actually using the PC within, you could slide it back to the end of the desk, and if you mounted the drawer underneath the desk, you'd never notice it.
Great review as always, Dustin. I have built about a dozen PCs (for myself, that is) but I haven't done it since 2003! I've been buying Dell XPS systems since then, as it was worth it to me to purchase fully assembled products with generally nice cases, believe it or not, rather than going through the rigamarole of purchasing all the separate parts and praying to the gods that everything works well with everything else. The manufacturer mashups can be pretty frightening. At any rate, your review here makes me want to buy one of these as I've had increasing interest in mini-ITX systems as of late. Might just have to workout a project plan! :-)
doctormonroe - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
What happened to the photo galleries?Dustin Sklavos - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
We had a bug in the system with them; adding galleries now.Conficio - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
"the general industry tend towards smaller"Meaker10 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
An OCed 680M stays along side a stock clocked GTX670 :DGrok42 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I am so glad to see more reviews of mITX cases. I believe as the reviewer does that these cases are the future of enclosures. I also believe that optical drives are legacy drives as well. All the reviews of mITX cases come to the same conclusion that the external bays seriously compromise the overall design of the case. Small cases are always going to be a set of trade offs but it seems obvious the trade off should be to remove the external bays but not a single case does. It seems so obvious that improved thermal and acoustic performance is more important than the ability to have an optical drive that is used once or twice in the life of the system.If your taking requests for future reviews I would nominate the Lian Li PC-Q16A. I'm worried it doesn't support a discrete GPU at which point I would retract my request. I can't find any information or reviews about it of any depth so I can't be sure if it does or not.
JoanSpark - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
+1there is not a single mITX/mATX case out there without an external (optical) drive bay.
Not a single case maker is producing a box where you can put in a mb, a gpu, some 2.5/3.5 drive(s) and call it a day.
You get countless towers, med towers, mini towers etc with numerous external bays in all kinds of styles and colours.. but not a single case without an external drive bay.
Pathetic.
Zap - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Check out the Lian Li PC-Q25 series. It is like the PC-Q08, except supporting more 3.5" drives and no external drive bay. And yes, gigantic graphics cards are supported.Alternately, for those who don't need discrete GPUs there are plenty of mITX cases which don't have external drive bays.
JoanSpark - Saturday, August 25, 2012 - link
I stand corrected.Thx for the pointer, very interesting.
Grok42 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I'm building a new mITX system this month to be my primary workstation/game rig. So far this case seems to be my case despite it not having very well ventilated drive bays. Anyone have alternate suggestions?Intel core i7-3770
Nvidia GTX 660ti
16GB RAM
128GB 2.5" SSD
No Optical
No 3.5" hard drive
DarkStryke - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
Go with the Asus P8Z77-I DELUXE, and that system will be a monster.Grok42 - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Thanks for the feedback, this is for sure the board I'm going with. It's amazing how much they can get on these tiny mITX boards these days.Japanesus - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
For those willing to spend more (~$200) I'd recommend the SG08 . Although slightly taller and about 2 inches deeper, the extra room allows for a more efficient design I think.Some differences:
- HD tray accommodates two 2.5" drives underneath and has silicone grommets to reduce vibration from the 3.5".
- 600W bronze rated PSU
-180mm Air Penetrator fan (which you can easily replace - I went for a Corsair H80 and replaced the noisy stock fans with one 38mm thick intake fan).
-Nice looking brushed aluminum front panel.
Easily got a mild 4.2GHz overclock on an i5-3750k with the H80's fan controller on low speed. Can always ramp things up if you don't mind a bit more noise.
Anyways it was my first build and came together effortlessly. I gave it to my dad to replace his 10+ year old crappy Gateway... It's not cheap but neither are the components you would put in a case like this, so I think it's worth it.
daar - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Having looked at both, from my recollection the depth of the SG08 is about the same as a regular PC tower, and a 5" difference from the SG05 (if it is the one I'm thinking of).Perhaps not an issue for some, but that difference was for me as I was sticking it inside a drawer. Otherwise, I'd just stick with the Prodigy or a mini tower for flexibility. Even if it's for home entertainment, TV stands generally space for a DVD player, and you can get a horizontal tower to fit in those.
pdjblum - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
I must be in the minority, because no one else seems to mind that the material of the cases reviewed are not stated up front in the specification box. I am a snob when it comes to cases, and the first thing I want to know is if it is made from aluminum or not.Dustin Sklavos - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
It isn't, but in my experience aluminum isn't necessarily desirable or even appropriate for the design. The SG05 uses plastic for the front fascia and steel for the chassis, and while a brushed aluminum fascia might be more attractive, the SECC steel is exactly the right call for the chassis itself.Keep in mind that the aluminum someone like Lian Li or Cubitek uses is also going to be different than the aluminum SilverStone uses.
MadAd - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - link
With all the recent buzz about SFF/ITX and the inevitability that PCs must shrink or die It would be great if we had a dedicated SFF forum here at Anandtech.Currently all SFF talk is drowned out by laptop and gaming posts, im sure there would be better discussion in its own home, currently the sheer volume of laptop posts deters anyone from even trying to discuss SFF, it feels pointless posting discussion if its just going to disappear.
Fantastic review otherwise, really enjoying the series, im determined that my current ATX builds (x3) will be my last and anything i need going forwards can be done on either SFF graphics free, or a uATX for a main gaming box with several hdd.
Samus - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
@ the GTX560 in that thing. Ridiculous...ly cool.miahallen - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=22055...nuff said 8)
cjs150 - Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - link
That is one beautiful creation. Not convinced by the reservoir location or the carbon fibre but still beautiful.Just shows Water cooling and mini itx go together.
geniekid - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
In my opinion (yours may vary), not being able to use a power supply of my choice is a deal breaker. Maybe one day the standard size of components like power supplies and graphics cards will go down to where I'm comfortable with Mini-ITX, but until then, micro ATX is the lowest I'm willing to go for a gaming rig. HTPC...okay, you got me there :)Zap - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
You can easily swap out the PSU. It is a standard "SFX" size that you can find replacements for at Newegg and other popular retailers.Besides the two Silverstone PSUs, FSP (who makes them for Silverstone) makes these PSUs in 300/400/450 wattages. Heck, Seasonic makes them in 300/350W. Silverstone has a new one that is 450W (maybe made by Enhance) but fully modular and 80Plus Gold!!! I used to own an Enermax 320W. SPI (Sparkle, part of FSP) has 300/350W versions. Some of these companies such as SPI/FSP also make lower wattage units down to 180W, but AFAIK those are older and less efficient designs.
There are also a bunch of lesser quality units on the market from companies like SilenX, Ultra, Apex, Athena Power, etc. but I wouldn't normally use them.
LostBeacon - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
I've owned the USB 2.0 variant for 2 years and the 450W PSU is very quiet, same for the front 120 mm fan. I would deinitely recommend for a SFF PC build. I am using a Sandy Bridge corei3 with a 60 GB SSD, a 500 GB HDD, and a slim ODD.JohnMD1022 - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
20-30 sec per photo, with Photoshop Elements or similar would make a world of difference.I used version 2.0 and adjusted the Brightness/Contrast.
See the difference:
http://www.picpaste.com/Large__2_of_14__575px-dNTn...
hasseb64 - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
- Remove external bay- Add a 250W GOLD PSU
- Add 1 or 2 [2,5"-3.5] internals
And we have a winner!
Sm0kes - Monday, August 20, 2012 - link
Thanks for the great review! I actually just pulled the trigger on a SB08 in hopes that it does a better job with noise / temps (and aesthetics). It'll be interesting to see how it compares with a Z77 + 3750k + 660Ti.Also, I wanted to echo the comment about creating a SFF forum section that is separate from laptops. It would be nice to try and get some more discussion going around these types of builds without being buried.
Nuschwander420 - Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - link
Can be had for about $20.Also a complete system based on this chassis can be had for $420- way beyond. This is the smallest possible system that can support a dual slot GPU! Look up the PICS for the SG05-bb on Xoxide.com or on google and you will find it next to a 12oz pop can. Small! I can't wait to build this pc with a Corsair H60 watercooler,GtX 660 ti,Core i7 3770k,Asrock z77 mini itx, and 16 gb of Corsair Vengence Ram.
HardwareDufus - Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - link
Think I just found my next case.... I'll tweak the drive caddy a bit to sling another 2.5drive under the other one..HardwareDufus - Saturday, November 24, 2012 - link
Heres' what I have:SG05BB case...
I7-3770k CPU
Asus P8z77i-Deluxe motherboard
OCZ Vertex4 Sata3(6G) 256GB SSD (2.5")
Seagate Hybrid HD (4GB SSD w/ 500GB 7200) (2.5")
I really like this case.. I'll harp on two things that could use work..but other than that...fine case!
wish harddive mounting were more flexible... lot of extra work and wasted space to use two 2.5 drives...like I have in my setup.... I will get out a dremel and rivit gone..and rework this someday... for now.. I put the SSD in the native 2.5" space... then I used the adapter that came with the SSD to mount the 2.5" HD in the 3.5" space... again cumbersome, time consuming and a waste of steel and space.
The front 120mm fan is louder than I would expect at slow speeds.. I will yank this for a quieter model.
Again.. I like this case... I'm at 4.225Ghz on all 4 cores of the I7, 1250Mhz on the built in HD4000 IGP and at DDR2400 (1200Mhz) on the 16GB of memory. Stock cooling... stock intel hsf and stock silverstone case fan...