Tegra will never be worth getting until they upgrade the the GPU to make it useful. It's sad that the GPU on Tegra 3 is slower then iPad 2. The "new" iPad's GPU just puts Tegra 3's to shame.
To be fair, it was only because Apple was willing to pay for such a chip. I'd bet no other OEM would really want to spend the few dollars(?) more per unit. Think it's insane? Intel was willing to save a few cents per unit on a cheaper TIM process for their Ivy Bridge.
And I'd bet no OEM would go for the insane A5X, but Apple.
That being said, Tegra 3 is only overshadowed by Samsung's GSIII GPU. It's still slightly faster than the Adreno 225, which is faster than about everything else out there in the Android market.
Sorry, but no. GPU has barely anything to do with Apple's success. They could have a tegra chip inside the iPad and it would still sell like there's no tomorrow.
Tegra 3's GPU may not be that fast compared to the latest and greatest from Apple, but it's certainly plenty fast.
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If they want to be competitive in GPU performance in 2013 with Tegra 4 they need to increase the performance like 5x compared to Tegra 3. It might be possible if the both move to 28nm and also make the chip at least as large as the A5X.
The only question is, will it be power efficient, too? Nvidia still wants to focus on CPU performance more than Apple, so they will go quad core Cortex A15, while Apple will only go dual core. So Nvidia might have to compromise a little on GPU performance there. Then again, rumors says they will use a new GPU architecture with Kepler DNA, so maybe it will be more efficient.
Either way, Nvidia has more to worry about Samsung and Apple. So far Samsung has had the best CPU's, and they now have the best GPU in a smartphone, too. Plus, Mali T604 is coming out very soon in at least one of their Exynos chips, and it will be more powerful than anything that will be released this year, by far.
Apple might take a lead again in GPU performance for a few months when they launch iPad 4 next spring (quite a bit from now) but just a few months later Mali T658 will appear in another Exynos chip, and should also become the most powerful GPU of the year, in both graphics performance and GPU compute performance.
Wrong. You're forgetting that because of the resolution of the ipad3 (whatever) it has to be a good 2x faster than the next guy just to get the same stuff on the screen.
Actually if you look at the non-synthetic benchmarks and actual games, you'll see you're incorrect. The graphics on games that run on ios & tegra are better on TEGRA. Sorry, look at them all on youtube/ google etc (or here, the reviews don't lie, tegra looks great in game). Apple so far isn't investing anything in helping developers. Nvidia is building an ecosystem just as they have on the desktop. Apple is making a mistake in not helping devs as much as Nvidia. At some point all the great looking games will be in tegrazone and not ios appstore.
Witness this site's conclusions of Tegra3 vs. Ipad3. "Is it physically possible to have the same experience on iOS? Quite possibly. What we're seeing here is a mobile representation of what NVIDIA has done in the PC industry for years. By lending its support to smaller Android developers, their games are made prettier on NVIDIA hardware, and in turn NVIDIA helps promote those games via Tegra Zone and other channels. Obviously Apple could do the same, but thus far it hasn't needed to." More: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/apple-ipad-2012... The title of that page? "Gaming Conclusion & Controller Support: An Android Advantage".
Anandtech thinks you're wrong. While it looks like Tegra 3 is aiming at console quality gaming, Apple looks like they're content to just have $1.99 games be the bar. They spend nothing on developers and instead choose to keep all the money. People will flock to better games. Right now it's not a huge issue as there are not that many games for either side. But once tegra has a good 100 titles that are console like, Apple will have problems if they're still not paying people to develop games that LOOK as good as tegra. Eventually people will find a device that can replace their console TOTALLY with great graphics/control support and is a smartphone. Apple won't look so shiny at that point no matter the hardware. For parents it will be about saving the $300-600 on the next console. Heck, it will be subsidized in the phone. It will basically be a free console for parents. Apple killed rimm by gaining what they had (enterprise mail) and adding something they didn't have (games). Nvidia is making the same move, but just with adding a console basically instead of just plain games.
Apple can stop this any time they please of course. But if they choose not to, the android gaming ecosystem could easily temp some paying parent from buying an iphone6/iphone7 for their kid for xmas 2014 or whatever. Actually I think 2013 xmas smartphones will equal or surpass x360 easily and consoles will be dead. Enough will switch that it's not worth buying a console, and in turn not worth writing for one either. It already looks like this is happening, the next hardware is already being complained about by EPIC. They are trying to get them all to choose MORE POWERFUL hardware but it seems we'll get cutdowns from here on out. Since consoles sit in stone for 10yrs this race is already over. Phones rev every 6 months to a year and will blow by consoles in a few years tops. IF you have controllers, and the same game power what good would a console be? Whoever woos devs the most will win this war probably. You stand the best chance of winning by killing the console with your new phone product. Smartphone killed the console star. :)
There's obviously room for ios and android as the pie is still growing and there's enough profits to go around for years as they cannibalize other devices (notably consoles for now, enterprise mail last round with Rimm). Rimm should have added games and an appstore the second Apple mentioned the first IOS game (crap game or not). They wouldn't be in the same boat if games and more apps etc were there. They kept their nose in the air with enterprise crap thinking it would pay forever. But once everyone has it you're not special any more. Then it becomes who's got something everyone else doesn't have.
Something I forgot to mention: A5X is just over 2x the size of Tegra3. All Nvidia needs to do is double the graphics cores and increase memory to dual channel and they'll have retina too. And all their games will still look better (well, even better than better?...LOL) than IOS. Note fps is about the same on both according to GAMES tested by Anand. But so far look better on NV. I'm not sure how you get to ipad3 putting tegra 3 gpu to shame knowing you're on Anandtech and had to have read their ipad3 review. Tegra 3 is worth getting NOW according to Anandtech if you're after games (which I'm assuming you're talking about when keying on the GPU).
Myself I hope Apple waits too long and ends up losing a bunch of market share forcing them to blow their 100bil, which in turn hopefully will give others a chance to get some good profits. They're abusing their market position with all the lawsuits etc and need to be stopped.
If they were smart, they'd spend a Billion over the next few years on game. You can make a good game for a console for $10-20mil easy. That's 50-100 triple A titles. You could easily make your iphone6 kill consoles for good. Ideally I'd like to see them do this just after they get some market share crushed by androids gaming. That's assuming Nvidia is able to keep funding good games, GOOGLE should pitch in and force this, as games could really set them apart from Apple and take over the console market. I think Qcom/Arm could get this going also. Any one of these 5 companies could choose to kill the next console by going after gaming.
No fanboy here. I don't own a smartphone and don't plan to buy until I see the phone that will kill the console for GOOD! Also I own an AMD 5850, no Nvidia card for now. Any of these 5 soc companies can do what I'm saying. They all have capable graphics that are about the same. But I won't lie about hating Apple these days (I owned a //E way back). I hate litigators and patent trolls. Prior art says Apples patents should be thrown own (no matter if nobody else got the patent first...They didn't think there was a reason because of so much prior art). Buttons shouldn't be features, nor should colors of anything on screen other than your stupid company logo. I had green buttons first, so you can't. WTF? Get out of our country moron. You shouldn't be able to patent a button, shape, color or gesture (or the dumb bounce at the bottom...all stupid). So stupid.
I loved apple from 12-16 or so. But just over 40yrs, I want them to die. :) They're hurting a lot of companies either through litigation, or just buying power plain and simple (hoarding all the ram etc at times, halting other products introductions for a time etc). Don't get me wrong, they're running a good business and taking advantage of everything the govt lets them. I think the same of bill gates and MS. But I'd still like their companies to get run over due to the crap they've foisted on us (winME, Vista, Win8...JEEZ...Proprietary is Apple's middle name). He had the power to tell Hollywood etc to stick it, and instead he's still selling us out.
I agree. NVIDIA needs to get this going because if more games keep having Tegra only features I want to have a Tegra but I hate getting something that is already outclassed :\
"Because Icera's architecture is a software defined radio,"
Hmm. I'd like to see this clarified. There are many things one could call a SW define radio, and I suspect (for power reasons if nothing else) that nVidia is way way on the uninteresting and not new side of this spectrum.
At the most dramatic level, this means we have a radio where the actual analog signal is being generated as a digital waveform --- no need for capacitors, inductors and the rest of it to heterodyne it up to 1.8GHz or whatever the target frequency is. I don't believe nV have this.
At the next most dramatic level, we have a collection of fairly generic DSP capabilities which can be mixed and matched to perform all the digital work --- the OFDM, the FEC, the security. If this is the case, the chip would presumably also be able to do WiFi. I don't believe nV have this.
At the mundane level, we have a collection of not particularly generic DSP capabilities, chosen precisely because they're what's needed for LTE and HSPA, and sequenced by software. I'm unsure why this is a big deal --- consider for example pretty much any WiFi system, which has the PHY in hardware and the MAC in software, sequencing what's going on. This is what I expect nV have. So what's especially noteworthy about their "software defined radio" claim? I'm prepared to be wrong, or surprised, or impressed by this --- I don't follow the low-level details of these chips closely. But from a big picture point of view, I'm just not aware that we're at the point where we can do radio very differently from the way we've done it for the past fifteen years.
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A5 - Friday, May 25, 2012 - link
It seems like we've been saying "oh the next Tegra is going to be the one to go for" since the first one.SkullOne - Friday, May 25, 2012 - link
Tegra will never be worth getting until they upgrade the the GPU to make it useful. It's sad that the GPU on Tegra 3 is slower then iPad 2. The "new" iPad's GPU just puts Tegra 3's to shame.jeremyshaw - Friday, May 25, 2012 - link
To be fair, it was only because Apple was willing to pay for such a chip. I'd bet no other OEM would really want to spend the few dollars(?) more per unit. Think it's insane? Intel was willing to save a few cents per unit on a cheaper TIM process for their Ivy Bridge.And I'd bet no OEM would go for the insane A5X, but Apple.
That being said, Tegra 3 is only overshadowed by Samsung's GSIII GPU. It's still slightly faster than the Adreno 225, which is faster than about everything else out there in the Android market.
Zingam - Saturday, May 26, 2012 - link
But that's exactly why Apple is selling all they can and the rest are struggling.Lugaidster - Saturday, May 26, 2012 - link
Sorry, but no. GPU has barely anything to do with Apple's success. They could have a tegra chip inside the iPad and it would still sell like there's no tomorrow.Tegra 3's GPU may not be that fast compared to the latest and greatest from Apple, but it's certainly plenty fast.
mnasub - Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - link
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Stop defending nVidia. There's no excuse for putting out such a mediocre GPU coming from the top GPU maker in the PC world.Tegra 1-3 all have been weak GPU with paid developer enhancements instead of top dog performance.
Which is actually kind of sad in the PC world nvidia also pays game companys to enhance game code for their GPUs.
Lucian Armasu - Friday, May 25, 2012 - link
If they want to be competitive in GPU performance in 2013 with Tegra 4 they need to increase the performance like 5x compared to Tegra 3. It might be possible if the both move to 28nm and also make the chip at least as large as the A5X.The only question is, will it be power efficient, too? Nvidia still wants to focus on CPU performance more than Apple, so they will go quad core Cortex A15, while Apple will only go dual core. So Nvidia might have to compromise a little on GPU performance there. Then again, rumors says they will use a new GPU architecture with Kepler DNA, so maybe it will be more efficient.
Either way, Nvidia has more to worry about Samsung and Apple. So far Samsung has had the best CPU's, and they now have the best GPU in a smartphone, too. Plus, Mali T604 is coming out very soon in at least one of their Exynos chips, and it will be more powerful than anything that will be released this year, by far.
Apple might take a lead again in GPU performance for a few months when they launch iPad 4 next spring (quite a bit from now) but just a few months later Mali T658 will appear in another Exynos chip, and should also become the most powerful GPU of the year, in both graphics performance and GPU compute performance.
GotThumbs - Friday, May 25, 2012 - link
On the plus side....the New IPAD3 also works great at keeping your coffee hot. :->name99 - Saturday, May 26, 2012 - link
I hope you're proud of yourself, comparing the value of your comment to the intelligence of those surrounding it.TheJian - Saturday, May 26, 2012 - link
Wrong. You're forgetting that because of the resolution of the ipad3 (whatever) it has to be a good 2x faster than the next guy just to get the same stuff on the screen.Actually if you look at the non-synthetic benchmarks and actual games, you'll see you're incorrect. The graphics on games that run on ios & tegra are better on TEGRA. Sorry, look at them all on youtube/ google etc (or here, the reviews don't lie, tegra looks great in game). Apple so far isn't investing anything in helping developers. Nvidia is building an ecosystem just as they have on the desktop. Apple is making a mistake in not helping devs as much as Nvidia. At some point all the great looking games will be in tegrazone and not ios appstore.
Witness this site's conclusions of Tegra3 vs. Ipad3.
"Is it physically possible to have the same experience on iOS? Quite possibly. What we're seeing here is a mobile representation of what NVIDIA has done in the PC industry for years. By lending its support to smaller Android developers, their games are made prettier on NVIDIA hardware, and in turn NVIDIA helps promote those games via Tegra Zone and other channels. Obviously Apple could do the same, but thus far it hasn't needed to."
More:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/apple-ipad-2012...
The title of that page?
"Gaming Conclusion & Controller Support: An Android Advantage".
Anandtech thinks you're wrong. While it looks like Tegra 3 is aiming at console quality gaming, Apple looks like they're content to just have $1.99 games be the bar. They spend nothing on developers and instead choose to keep all the money. People will flock to better games. Right now it's not a huge issue as there are not that many games for either side. But once tegra has a good 100 titles that are console like, Apple will have problems if they're still not paying people to develop games that LOOK as good as tegra. Eventually people will find a device that can replace their console TOTALLY with great graphics/control support and is a smartphone. Apple won't look so shiny at that point no matter the hardware. For parents it will be about saving the $300-600 on the next console. Heck, it will be subsidized in the phone. It will basically be a free console for parents. Apple killed rimm by gaining what they had (enterprise mail) and adding something they didn't have (games). Nvidia is making the same move, but just with adding a console basically instead of just plain games.
Apple can stop this any time they please of course. But if they choose not to, the android gaming ecosystem could easily temp some paying parent from buying an iphone6/iphone7 for their kid for xmas 2014 or whatever. Actually I think 2013 xmas smartphones will equal or surpass x360 easily and consoles will be dead. Enough will switch that it's not worth buying a console, and in turn not worth writing for one either. It already looks like this is happening, the next hardware is already being complained about by EPIC. They are trying to get them all to choose MORE POWERFUL hardware but it seems we'll get cutdowns from here on out. Since consoles sit in stone for 10yrs this race is already over. Phones rev every 6 months to a year and will blow by consoles in a few years tops. IF you have controllers, and the same game power what good would a console be? Whoever woos devs the most will win this war probably. You stand the best chance of winning by killing the console with your new phone product. Smartphone killed the console star. :)
There's obviously room for ios and android as the pie is still growing and there's enough profits to go around for years as they cannibalize other devices (notably consoles for now, enterprise mail last round with Rimm). Rimm should have added games and an appstore the second Apple mentioned the first IOS game (crap game or not). They wouldn't be in the same boat if games and more apps etc were there. They kept their nose in the air with enterprise crap thinking it would pay forever. But once everyone has it you're not special any more. Then it becomes who's got something everyone else doesn't have.
TheJian - Saturday, May 26, 2012 - link
Something I forgot to mention: A5X is just over 2x the size of Tegra3. All Nvidia needs to do is double the graphics cores and increase memory to dual channel and they'll have retina too. And all their games will still look better (well, even better than better?...LOL) than IOS. Note fps is about the same on both according to GAMES tested by Anand. But so far look better on NV. I'm not sure how you get to ipad3 putting tegra 3 gpu to shame knowing you're on Anandtech and had to have read their ipad3 review. Tegra 3 is worth getting NOW according to Anandtech if you're after games (which I'm assuming you're talking about when keying on the GPU).Myself I hope Apple waits too long and ends up losing a bunch of market share forcing them to blow their 100bil, which in turn hopefully will give others a chance to get some good profits. They're abusing their market position with all the lawsuits etc and need to be stopped.
If they were smart, they'd spend a Billion over the next few years on game. You can make a good game for a console for $10-20mil easy. That's 50-100 triple A titles. You could easily make your iphone6 kill consoles for good. Ideally I'd like to see them do this just after they get some market share crushed by androids gaming. That's assuming Nvidia is able to keep funding good games, GOOGLE should pitch in and force this, as games could really set them apart from Apple and take over the console market. I think Qcom/Arm could get this going also. Any one of these 5 companies could choose to kill the next console by going after gaming.
No fanboy here. I don't own a smartphone and don't plan to buy until I see the phone that will kill the console for GOOD! Also I own an AMD 5850, no Nvidia card for now. Any of these 5 soc companies can do what I'm saying. They all have capable graphics that are about the same. But I won't lie about hating Apple these days (I owned a //E way back). I hate litigators and patent trolls. Prior art says Apples patents should be thrown own (no matter if nobody else got the patent first...They didn't think there was a reason because of so much prior art). Buttons shouldn't be features, nor should colors of anything on screen other than your stupid company logo. I had green buttons first, so you can't. WTF? Get out of our country moron. You shouldn't be able to patent a button, shape, color or gesture (or the dumb bounce at the bottom...all stupid). So stupid.
I loved apple from 12-16 or so. But just over 40yrs, I want them to die. :) They're hurting a lot of companies either through litigation, or just buying power plain and simple (hoarding all the ram etc at times, halting other products introductions for a time etc). Don't get me wrong, they're running a good business and taking advantage of everything the govt lets them. I think the same of bill gates and MS. But I'd still like their companies to get run over due to the crap they've foisted on us (winME, Vista, Win8...JEEZ...Proprietary is Apple's middle name). He had the power to tell Hollywood etc to stick it, and instead he's still selling us out.
shaolin95 - Friday, May 25, 2012 - link
I agree. NVIDIA needs to get this going because if more games keep having Tegra only features I want to have a Tegra but I hate getting something that is already outclassed :\name99 - Saturday, May 26, 2012 - link
"Because Icera's architecture is a software defined radio,"Hmm. I'd like to see this clarified. There are many things one could call a SW define radio, and I suspect (for power reasons if nothing else) that nVidia is way way on the uninteresting and not new side of this spectrum.
At the most dramatic level, this means we have a radio where the actual analog signal is being generated as a digital waveform --- no need for capacitors, inductors and the rest of it to heterodyne it up to 1.8GHz or whatever the target frequency is. I don't believe nV have this.
At the next most dramatic level, we have a collection of fairly generic DSP capabilities which can be mixed and matched to perform all the digital work --- the OFDM, the FEC, the security. If this is the case, the chip would presumably also be able to do WiFi. I don't believe nV have this.
At the mundane level, we have a collection of not particularly generic DSP capabilities, chosen precisely because they're what's needed for LTE and HSPA, and sequenced by software. I'm unsure why this is a big deal --- consider for example pretty much any WiFi system, which has the PHY in hardware and the MAC in software, sequencing what's going on. This is what I expect nV have. So what's especially noteworthy about their "software defined radio" claim?
I'm prepared to be wrong, or surprised, or impressed by this --- I don't follow the low-level details of these chips closely. But from a big picture point of view, I'm just not aware that we're at the point where we can do radio very differently from the way we've done it for the past fifteen years.
sunsineda - Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - link
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sunsineda - Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - link
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http://me2.do/IFPdEtE
Especificaciones generalesmarcaCuernos negrocolorblancoentradaAC 110-240V 50/60 Hz DC 12-24VsalidaDC 5Vcapacidad2000mAhfunciónde carga para tu iPhone, iPodcompatibilidadiPod, iPhonecaracterísticasCargador multifuncional para iPod, iPhone.