It really sounds like the SATA committee needs to make a new standard for these devices; but then again it seems like these guys are reinventing existing mSATA sized SSDs because they can.
Apple even has different SATA connectors on their standard hard drives in the iMac which makes upgrades a pain, no surprises that these are proprietary as well. A bit let down with Asus though. I wonder if there are good reasons for it other than making proprietary products.
It's fine to complain that "these guys are reinventing the wheel" but it has happened time and again that the standard bodies simply don't bother to come up with a spec before it's needed.
Let's take one obvious example: where's the mini-ethernet connector --- a STANDARD ethernet connector that is much thinner than RJ-45 so it will fit it thin laptops, tablets, phones? Oh, there isn't one? So what is Apple supposed to do if, for example, they want to thinnify the MacBook Pro but still retain gig-ethernet? All they CAN do is invent their own connector.
In this particular case, I'd be interested in hearing the full story here. Yes yes, we are all aware of your conspiracy theories that Apple are the new SONY, who insist that everyone use their special connector. Meanwhile, in the real world
(a) there is fsckall aftermarket in SSDs for MBAs, so it's not like Apple is afraid of people buying a low-storage MBA, taking it apart, and sliding in a larger storage SSD. The population that are willing to take this sort of risk on a device that's so clearly difficult and delicate to open is a few percent at most.
(b) Asus is hardly a large enough company (nor is it in a market) where it can afford to play these sorts of proprietary games
which both suggest that
(c) there is a very real problem with mSATA which means engineers find it worth the effort to pay a little more for something that is non-standard. I could imagine, among other things - it uses too much power (or equivalents like it has problems going to deep sleep) - it's too large - it's electrically noisy, so it's difficult to work with.
I'd be interested in hearing (from INFORMED) commentators why both Asus and Apple felt it's worth the extra cost (which Apple can afford, but Asus can't) to not use mSATA.
I very liked the new ZenBook Prime(s), specially the 13 incher... but having non-standard thing is bad... I don't know which one is standard the Apple mSATA or ASUS mSATA even thought I think there's no standard yet for such drives, and ASUS was avoiding and possible lawsuits from Apple if they used the same design...
but the point I hate it is the hybrid harddrive, I know it's very nice and better than normal HDD, but comparing it to regular SSD will make us liking the SSD more...
I think the best practice is to have mSATA port for the SSD and optional 7mm slot for normal HDD if the user want more storage ( or cheap storage ), so one can have 128GB SSD only for OS and apps, and the 500GB for data... + if he doesn't need that much of data, he can use 256GB SSD and get rid of the HDD to save weight.. or better have the space for that 7mm HDD be used for optional extra battery that gives you more battery life !!
U100 might be slow, but could be the factor for improved battery life. I'd like a test between Sandforce based Zenbooks and Sandisk based ones to see which ones have better battery life.
As for performance, anything first generation Indilinx controller or better is enough. But not all the manufacturers get the power usage, or reliability right.
Why the hell do those two companies think they need to define their own distinct standard from mSATA? The drives even follow the SATA standard, it's just the pins that are different.
So they can charge you $300 for an out of warranty replacement rather than you buy a OEM version for $75.
I had a Toshiba laptop that had a faulty DVD rom/CDRW drive. The OEM cost of a standard replacement was about £20.
However, Toshiba hardwire/reverse the Master/Slave setting on the drives so a OEM one wont work. A call to Toshiba for a replacement drive? £250.00 please!!!!
I told them to go forth and multiply.
Suffice to say I found a solution on the web and used a fine paintbrush and silver paint to connect two pins to reverse the Master/Slave setting.
The mSATA standard still (2012.05) hasn't been ratified!
So Apple, that has been selling SSD-only MacBook Air since late 2010, or anybody else wishing to set up their hardware with sticks of SSDs has had to setup their own system waiting for the SATA-io to finally get their act together.
Apple MB Air has been a huge computer product for them, so should they have been waiting until the standard is finally ready, or switch to micro-SATA, which limits storage to 64GB soldered on the mother board?
At first I wanted to blast ASUS for this proprietary card, but there is more at play here. As others have said there is no ratified standard. So ASUS had 2 choices, make their own or copy Apple. I think they did the right thing with the iLawyers on prowl for anything "infringing" these days.
I thought mSATA was published as part of the SATA 3.1 specifications. As of SATA 3.1 it is a physical Mini PCI Express connector which is compatible with both mSATA and Mini PCI Express (PCIe) automatically now eliminating the need for a dedicated mSATA slot at all. I.e. mSATA as it is already implemented today. mSATA is also highly proliferated already and lots of boards and laptops supports it. It is already a reality. Plus there already is mSATA drives on the open market.
That said it is actually not a cost issue at all to just order a custom PCB/connector design. Asus might actually save money that way, I have no idea where the commentator a bit above in the thread is coming from it's certainly not anything expensive to have a simpler design and custom order your own SATA PCBs. SSDs are really simple board designs and OWC can even design and build their own Apple compatible version by contract manufacturing in the US. Plenty of memory module/pcb assembly companies build SSDs. SATA data signaling is just four pins. Changing just the connector is a easy part, Sandisk designed the PCB / SSD itself here. Asus needed no logic to switch between PCIe and SATA on the board. Apple started using their design back in 2010, when the situation wasn't that clear and no-one had mSATA SSDs out on the open market. Asus probably just didn't want to bother implementing mSATA, but Dell, HP, Lenovo and the rest has already done that on their laptops. Maybe not at all their ultraportables yet though. There is also a JEDEC-standard for the physical mSATA cards which match the Mini PCI Express / Mini PCIe Card standard. As well as none standard longer versions around. Say a Samsung mSATA SSD does comply with the JEDEC standard and works in a mSATA slot which if it has the circuitry also supports PCIe and ordinary Mini PCI Express cards. As the SATA 3.1 specification it couldn't be clearer. You can fit a 256GB SSD here easily. Those behind the specification certainly jumped on it so it is already around and the official specification is nearly a year old already.
for all I know there should be 2 kinds of mSATA cards, the fat kind that everyone uses, and the thin one by Apple. I don't know about Toshiba, but it's plain stupidity for any manufacturer to use a third kind.
Their stupid vendor lock in to sustain stupid patents will turn all of those non standard technology pieces into a problem for technicians in the future. What will happen ? In one point in the future, the Technicians will start to ask users to throw away the entire machine (even if it's usefull) because it will be expensive to find counterparts whereas new machines will be cheap to buy. This is our patent war helping to construct more electronic trash piles...
If you look at the placement of the normal SATA power and data connectors, they're only about 3 cm in total width. Is that really too wide? Really? Why not just go with a "bare" SATA connector (meaning just the pins, like in the photos) for power and data, and just slide it in? Why the need to come up with a new connector?
I mean, really, the Asus design saves a whole 3 pins. Wowee! That's going to save a tonne of money down the line. :rolleyes:
And the Apple design saves a whole 8 pins, but has a huge ground or whatever, that takes up the same amount of space as 3-4 pins, so not really much savings there.
Has any one noticed that the this weird PCI-e type connector is the same as the UX31E WIFI / BT CARD as pictured on the link below? Even that's not a standard. There are adapters available in eBay for read/write access via a sandard 2.5 Sata so why can't this be reversed by a simple inverted connector?
The Sandisk U100 is a piece of crap. I just had some UX31's in here, and it took over 3Hrs for the initial batch of Windows Updates to install. That time was measured from after the download completed, which was about 10 or 15min. The small file read/write speeds on that drive are not just bad, they are criminal, I will not sell an ultrabook with one of those installed. This drive has been around for a while, and it is absolutely horrible. I have not checked the connectors, but if they are using something else than an mSATA connecter, that is pretty bad too, I imagine they are doing it to meet space requirements. But that just sucks. I would rather have a standard mSata connector, and decent SSD drive and pay an extra $100, but that should not be necessary at this price point.
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Ryan Smith - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
It really sounds like the SATA committee needs to make a new standard for these devices; but then again it seems like these guys are reinventing existing mSATA sized SSDs because they can.tipoo - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
Apple even has different SATA connectors on their standard hard drives in the iMac which makes upgrades a pain, no surprises that these are proprietary as well. A bit let down with Asus though. I wonder if there are good reasons for it other than making proprietary products.derektrotter - Thursday, May 31, 2012 - link
No, Apple doesn't have different SATA connectors on their standard hard drives in the iMac. They use the standard SATA connector.name99 - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
It's fine to complain that "these guys are reinventing the wheel" but it has happened time and again that the standard bodies simply don't bother to come up with a spec before it's needed.Let's take one obvious example: where's the mini-ethernet connector --- a STANDARD ethernet connector that is much thinner than RJ-45 so it will fit it thin laptops, tablets, phones? Oh, there isn't one? So what is Apple supposed to do if, for example, they want to thinnify the MacBook Pro but still retain gig-ethernet? All they CAN do is invent their own connector.
In this particular case, I'd be interested in hearing the full story here. Yes yes, we are all aware of your conspiracy theories that Apple are the new SONY, who insist that everyone use their special connector. Meanwhile, in the real world
(a) there is fsckall aftermarket in SSDs for MBAs, so it's not like Apple is afraid of people buying a low-storage MBA, taking it apart, and sliding in a larger storage SSD. The population that are willing to take this sort of risk on a device that's so clearly difficult and delicate to open is a few percent at most.
(b) Asus is hardly a large enough company (nor is it in a market) where it can afford to play these sorts of proprietary games
which both suggest that
(c) there is a very real problem with mSATA which means engineers find it worth the effort to pay a little more for something that is non-standard. I could imagine, among other things
- it uses too much power (or equivalents like it has problems going to deep sleep)
- it's too large
- it's electrically noisy, so it's difficult to work with.
I'd be interested in hearing (from INFORMED) commentators why both Asus and Apple felt it's worth the extra cost (which Apple can afford, but Asus can't) to not use mSATA.
Xajel - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
I very liked the new ZenBook Prime(s), specially the 13 incher... but having non-standard thing is bad... I don't know which one is standard the Apple mSATA or ASUS mSATA even thought I think there's no standard yet for such drives, and ASUS was avoiding and possible lawsuits from Apple if they used the same design...but the point I hate it is the hybrid harddrive, I know it's very nice and better than normal HDD, but comparing it to regular SSD will make us liking the SSD more...
I think the best practice is to have mSATA port for the SSD and optional 7mm slot for normal HDD if the user want more storage ( or cheap storage ), so one can have 128GB SSD only for OS and apps, and the 500GB for data...
+ if he doesn't need that much of data, he can use 256GB SSD and get rid of the HDD to save weight.. or better have the space for that 7mm HDD be used for optional extra battery that gives you more battery life !!
IntelUser2000 - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
U100 might be slow, but could be the factor for improved battery life. I'd like a test between Sandforce based Zenbooks and Sandisk based ones to see which ones have better battery life.As for performance, anything first generation Indilinx controller or better is enough. But not all the manufacturers get the power usage, or reliability right.
r3loaded - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
Why the hell do those two companies think they need to define their own distinct standard from mSATA? The drives even follow the SATA standard, it's just the pins that are different.jabber - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
So they can charge you $300 for an out of warranty replacement rather than you buy a OEM version for $75.I had a Toshiba laptop that had a faulty DVD rom/CDRW drive. The OEM cost of a standard replacement was about £20.
However, Toshiba hardwire/reverse the Master/Slave setting on the drives so a OEM one wont work. A call to Toshiba for a replacement drive? £250.00 please!!!!
I told them to go forth and multiply.
Suffice to say I found a solution on the web and used a fine paintbrush and silver paint to connect two pins to reverse the Master/Slave setting.
Torrijos - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
The mSATA standard still (2012.05) hasn't been ratified!So Apple, that has been selling SSD-only MacBook Air since late 2010, or anybody else wishing to set up their hardware with sticks of SSDs has had to setup their own system waiting for the SATA-io to finally get their act together.
Apple MB Air has been a huge computer product for them, so should they have been waiting until the standard is finally ready, or switch to micro-SATA, which limits storage to 64GB soldered on the mother board?
bah12 - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
At first I wanted to blast ASUS for this proprietary card, but there is more at play here. As others have said there is no ratified standard. So ASUS had 2 choices, make their own or copy Apple. I think they did the right thing with the iLawyers on prowl for anything "infringing" these days.Penti - Friday, May 25, 2012 - link
I thought mSATA was published as part of the SATA 3.1 specifications. As of SATA 3.1 it is a physical Mini PCI Express connector which is compatible with both mSATA and Mini PCI Express (PCIe) automatically now eliminating the need for a dedicated mSATA slot at all. I.e. mSATA as it is already implemented today. mSATA is also highly proliferated already and lots of boards and laptops supports it. It is already a reality. Plus there already is mSATA drives on the open market.That said it is actually not a cost issue at all to just order a custom PCB/connector design. Asus might actually save money that way, I have no idea where the commentator a bit above in the thread is coming from it's certainly not anything expensive to have a simpler design and custom order your own SATA PCBs. SSDs are really simple board designs and OWC can even design and build their own Apple compatible version by contract manufacturing in the US. Plenty of memory module/pcb assembly companies build SSDs. SATA data signaling is just four pins. Changing just the connector is a easy part, Sandisk designed the PCB / SSD itself here. Asus needed no logic to switch between PCIe and SATA on the board. Apple started using their design back in 2010, when the situation wasn't that clear and no-one had mSATA SSDs out on the open market. Asus probably just didn't want to bother implementing mSATA, but Dell, HP, Lenovo and the rest has already done that on their laptops. Maybe not at all their ultraportables yet though. There is also a JEDEC-standard for the physical mSATA cards which match the Mini PCI Express / Mini PCIe Card standard. As well as none standard longer versions around. Say a Samsung mSATA SSD does comply with the JEDEC standard and works in a mSATA slot which if it has the circuitry also supports PCIe and ordinary Mini PCI Express cards. As the SATA 3.1 specification it couldn't be clearer. You can fit a 256GB SSD here easily. Those behind the specification certainly jumped on it so it is already around and the official specification is nearly a year old already.
fmcjw - Monday, June 4, 2012 - link
for all I know there should be 2 kinds of mSATA cards, the fat kind that everyone uses, and the thin one by Apple. I don't know about Toshiba, but it's plain stupidity for any manufacturer to use a third kind.greylica - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
Their stupid vendor lock in to sustain stupid patents will turn all of those non standard technology pieces into a problem for technicians in the future. What will happen ?In one point in the future, the Technicians will start to ask users to throw away the entire machine (even if it's usefull) because it will be expensive to find counterparts whereas new machines will be cheap to buy.
This is our patent war helping to construct more electronic trash piles...
ImSpartacus - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
It's awesome that Anandtech pursues this kind of stuff, but I'm really waiting for the 13W battery life numbers!ajp_anton - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
Is it possible to manually route the pins correctly? Assuming there's room inside to place the SSD away from the connector and some extra wires.phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
If you look at the placement of the normal SATA power and data connectors, they're only about 3 cm in total width. Is that really too wide? Really? Why not just go with a "bare" SATA connector (meaning just the pins, like in the photos) for power and data, and just slide it in? Why the need to come up with a new connector?phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - link
I mean, really, the Asus design saves a whole 3 pins. Wowee! That's going to save a tonne of money down the line. :rolleyes:And the Apple design saves a whole 8 pins, but has a huge ground or whatever, that takes up the same amount of space as 3-4 pins, so not really much savings there.
zcs1957 - Tuesday, November 6, 2012 - link
Hello, my ssd is damage, where can I find SDSA5JK?...thanks is advancepockets101 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link
Has any one noticed that the this weird PCI-e type connector is the same as the UX31E WIFI / BT CARD as pictured on the link below? Even that's not a standard. There are adapters available in eBay for read/write access via a sandard 2.5 Sata so why can't this be reversed by a simple inverted connector?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-UX31E-GENUINE-WIFI-BT...
pockets101 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link
Is it at all possible that on the these SSD's could work?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-EeePC-HDD-SSD-128GB-M...
pockets101 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link
One last one. Does anyone know what model the 64GB ones are in the cheaper UX21E?falko2904 - Thursday, March 21, 2013 - link
The Sandisk U100 is a piece of crap. I just had some UX31's in here, and it took over 3Hrs for the initial batch of Windows Updates to install. That time was measured from after the download completed, which was about 10 or 15min. The small file read/write speeds on that drive are not just bad, they are criminal, I will not sell an ultrabook with one of those installed. This drive has been around for a while, and it is absolutely horrible. I have not checked the connectors, but if they are using something else than an mSATA connecter, that is pretty bad too, I imagine they are doing it to meet space requirements. But that just sucks. I would rather have a standard mSata connector, and decent SSD drive and pay an extra $100, but that should not be necessary at this price point.