I would get angry and flustered at this removal, but it's obvious that Windows Media Center will never gain the same level of use as Windows Media Player or Internet Explorer. And it really makes no sense to pay for a DVD license when the future of computers is Ultrabook type machines.
If anything, I just want to skip over the requirement of CableCards to direct IPTV-based platforms which rely only on an Internet connection and a login to work. Watching TV should be as stupidly simple as Netflix. Everything from now until then is just silly corporate bickering from people who want their cut of the pie.
Technical issues? In the age of streaming media, that was about the lamest argument you could possibly pull out of the hat. Technical issues are at the bottom of the list as far as reasons we don't have IPTV. The #1 spot goes to "corporate greed by media executives".
Agreed there, JK. The bottom line is that 'technical issues' are not the problem, it is the greed of the people who make the TV shows and other things in question.
They keep on wanting their farking DRM that does not stop ANY piracy and just drives people to 'pirated' things to not have to deal with the problems from DRM.
I wonder if anyone at Microsoft pointed out that 6% of Windows 7 users is 30 million? So Microsoft is telling a population about half the size of the global X-box 360 market to screw off.
Their stupidity cruxified WHS2, essentially destroying the Home Server market that was steadily growing. And why? Let's get rid of Drive Extender and make the OS useless. And their reasons turned out to be complete lies, since they are putting drive extender in Win8. What percentage of Win7 installs use multiple hard drives? Probably less than 6%. I thought you could safely ignore such a small group? I would also point out that drive extender doesn't work well with the most common new configuration of multiple drives - an SSD and a magnetic. Those drives DON'T want to be pooled since you put very different things on each.
Microsoft is going to blame others for their pending decline (like IE), but they are giving others an opportunity to drink their milkshake by doing stupid things like this. I'll keep Win7 around for a while, but it is unlikely to be replaced by more Microsoft stuff if this kind of crap continues. I have a habit of dragging dozens of other users with me - one of the reasons that Chrome is doing so well now.
Actually, it's kinda true. The people who post on here are 'techies' and therefore are going to have a lot more weight than 'average Joe Schmoe' on the street with their families on tech issues.
When I told MY family members to switch to Firefox, they did that.
I didn't like Win8 even before this announcement. As one of the 6% I like it even less.
I don't like the changes to the desktop. I don't Metro, and I wouldn't want to be charged extra for Metro (which likely involves online credit card transactions with Microsoft).
Ironically, the only purpose of Windows in my home is for WMC on my HTPC. I use Linux on my desktop. I have no interest in Windows 8 whatsoever, and have a total lack of confidence in MS, save their Xbox division.
It does beg the question--if Windows 8 is not paying the encoding royalties, does that mean the consumer sees the savings? I bet I know the answer to that, unless MS plans to compete with Apple on OS pricing.
Speaking of Apple, I guess they won the BluRay battle. They never supported it in-house, and it looks like BluRay is just going to be relegated to the sub-$100 set-top box option. Maybe the next format will go on memory sticks. I sure don't want to download/stream all my content, since ISPs bill by the bit.
As long as you payed for a Win license Ballmer loves you.
Perhaps W8 will be a tad cheaper or maybe not. I don't think there is room for comparison between Apple's 30$ upgrade and MS' stand alone OS.
There never was a battle between Apple and MS for BluRay. Unfortunately people that have an innate lack of confidence towards all things MS have a contrarian attitude that makes them see "battles" all over the place. And BR and DVD playback *will* be supported just not by default, only through the Media Center add-on; Apple still doesn't support it(not that is good or bad, just their choice).
Windows has remained pretty reasonably priced over the years. Look back towards the WinXP days, and then figure in 10 years of inflation. Not too bad, all things considered, and Win8 looks to be the most efficient version yet.
I would also point out that WMC and codecs are only available to those users that purchase the most expensive tier of Windows. Premium users CANNOT HAVE MEDIACENTER OR CODECS.
Yup, ditto. We use Windows for two purposes around the house - HTPC (WIn7) and file storage (WHS); we're otherwise an all Mac household. If there was a decent way to decode Cablecard on a Mac (Elgato, you listening?), that would be the end of the HTPC. And then I'd be completely happy to move up to Mac OS X Server for the mass storage.
Yikes...removing Media Center is lame, removing DVD support is even lamer. Instead of adding native Blu Ray, the remove DVD? Umm....
Add that to the removal of the start menu,. and I've gotten super, super leery about Windows 8. The ONLY the that doesn't have me calling it a complete disaster is just that the changes in Windows 7 sounded scary, but ended up not being that major.
What sucks the most, is that even though you purchase the add-on pack of Windows 8 Pro, you STILL can't play DVD in Windows Media Player. Only Media Center will be able to play them. That sucks.
I like Windows Media Player 12 a lot, especially the 64-bit version, instantly load large video files, with itself, clean and nice look, and provides excellent playback of DVD's.
Now I have to purchase PowerDVD or similar codec pack, and use their ugly, badly programed special player. Or use VLC and enjoy my DVD with a high frame skip, which is does on all my systems.
also has better audio during time stretch than vlc, vlc is a nice fall back at times but their developers are only interested in their own interests, they can't be bothered to fix stuff that has been broken for 10 years, like global hotkeys or anything else, so gom will have better time stretch sound quality for years to come...
Best method I've found is use AnyDVD to do the initial rip onto the hdd and then use Handbrake to recode into x264 mp4 format. Nearly the same quality as the original disc but much less space taken for each movie.
The #1 issue right now (as far as live TV goes, anyway) is that it won't let you watch or record anything that isn't flagged "copy-freely" by your provider. The channels that this covers varies widely by provider (apparently Time Warner marks everything "copy-once", for example).
WMC will let you watch copy-freely, copy-once, and copy-never (think PPV events) and record the first two. So if you want to replicate the telco DVR experience as much as possible, WMC is pretty much the only choice. A damn shame, since WMC7 is actually really good.
This is why I stuck an antenna on the roof instead of going with cable. I can record and transfer everything that my antenna can pick up. If I want to watch any HBO programs (Game of Thrones) I can stream or download them from Amazon or itunes.
WMC had the foundation to be something great, but they gimped it as usual, you have to add plugins and the rest and still navigation is a chore, support for popular file formats, things like subtitles are not right and the rest, they never took it beyond its original functionality, stuff they should have added through the years they never bothered with, they let it play the wmv's and dvds and perhaps a tv tuner and called it a day when most people want more, especially folks with media libraries and the rest.
Now if they make it optional they will just drive the rest to use xbmc.
You're pretty boned with CableCARD if you're with a cable provider where most of the channels are encrypted. At that point, Windows Media Center is your only good option.
If I recall, this was answered on the Windows blog and it's because in order for WMC to work you'll need access to things that are part of the license pack included in Pro.
Not so. The seven additional features of Windows 8 Pro (BitLocker and BitLocker To Go, Boot from VHD, Client Hyper-V, Domain Join, Encrypting File System, Group Policy and Remote Desktop (host)) have absolutely nothing to do with helping WMC to work. They are totally irrelevant for an HTPC.
This is purely a marketing decision. And one that deliberately restricts the take-up of WMC 8. That way, Microsoft will be able to kill it off and say: "See? We told you that no-one was interested in it..."
Pro still has different licensing. And while 6% LAUNCHED WMP to see what the heck it is, less than that actually used WMP. From Microsoft:
<i>"However, most people are just looking around; only one quarter (25% of 6%) of these people used it for more than 10 minutes per session (individual averages), and in 59% of Media Center sessions (by these 6% of users) we see almost no activity (less than a minute or two of usage)."</i>
I thought the user engagement statistics were throwing salt in the wound, so I left them out. I doubt that the cost of Win 8 will come down based on this change. They're calling the add-on one of nominal cost because it probably won't be more than the cost of the license, say $10-20. The nominal point also works to justify not lowering the price of Win 8 vs. Win 7.
Even with you degradation of 6% by a quarter - you are still talking about 8 million frequent users.
And any savings Microsoft sees from yanking licenses will be tossed on their pile of $60B in cash. You have no choice, you will pay what they want.
I would also point out that POWER users frequently DON'T check 'send Microsoft feedback' - and that is where those numbers come from. I know I don't send anything to MS and I use Mediacenter every day.
I hope Google is paying attention. With their continued efforts on GoogleTV despite limited success, I think they might use Win8's weaknesses to steal the HTPC market.
Actually RDP host is used for media center. An extender connects to the PC via RDP session. An extender even creates a new user account on your PC to use when logging in.
It might have something to do with Remote Desktop. Extenders communicate with Media Center using RDP for the UI, but on port 3390 instead of 3389. (There is a separate RTSP connection for the video stream). One of the big features in Windows 8 is RemoteFX, which might even make the video stream work in a regular RDP session. Anyone with the beta tried RDP on port 3390 to see if you can use another PC as an extender?
No. According to Microsoft's Bernardo Caldas (in a comment to the FAQ post):
"The usage rights to these codecs needed to play DVD do not carry forward to a new version of Windows after you upgrade. These terms are defined by the licensors of these technologies, not Microsoft or OEMs."
They seriously expect me to pay for the special version of the OS, pay for something that should have been in the OS in the first place on top of that and then have the audacity to tell me it can't even play DVDs?
It's insane. Simply insane. They made Windows 7, which has sold 525 million copies and is the fastest selling OS in computing history, yet they do a complete 360 degree turn and make this Windows 8 garbage... and for what? They're just going to lose money when people buy even more copies of Win7.
Unless Windows 8 is priced closer to other software. If Windows 8 is half the price of Windows 7, people will buy Windows 8 and just get some $20-$30 DVD software (most consumers don't know about the free alternatives)
Somewhat more amusingly, our MS representatives have been sending development diaries to us for the last year, teasing Windows 8 in a very excited way. Recently with the upcoming launch they have ben unable to contain their excitement and have invited a load of people to a executive preview of the software. Whilst I am personally not interested in it beyond seeing what it looks like, I ignored the email, only to find another one this week lamenting that interest was somewhat less than had been hoped for and pleading for more attendence.
To me there is no reason to upgrade to Windows 8 beyond having the latest and greatest, but its not really designed for a desktop experience, which is how I would use it and certain features which I would use like WMC are severely compromised. What is worse is that MS are in severe and genuine danger of losing the interest of business in a bid to chase the consumer and business bucks which Apple has successfully won with the iPhone and iPad. Try showing anyone in business the benefits of the Windows 8 Metro interface on their dual 24" monitors, they don't really see the point, and I'm not sure there is one other than making it tablet friendly. Windows 7 works absolutely fine on a desktop and will do for some many years to come.
They claim that they need to charge extra due to royalties for the codecs needed for playing DVDs and Blu-rays - but then come programs like MPC-HC and VLC can play them for free?
To quote Wikipedia: "At least one recent release of the VLC media player software is able to read video and audio data from DVDs that incorporate Content Scramble System (CSS) encryption, even though the VLC media player software lacks a CSS decryption license.[47] The unauthorized decryption of CSS-encrypted DVD content and/or the unauthorized distribution of CSS decryption tools may violate the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act"
I am a LINUX GUY/ MythTV and now a Google TV tinkerer. So, I am the last person to defend Microsoft but don't you think that Microsoft is tired of having the Monkey (Movie/Entertainment Industry) on their backs. Have you seen what the Monkey has been doing to Google? Especially, now that HTLM5 is on the horizon. Maybe, this could be the right posture of Microsoft for now.
This Monkey is the POKER that has all the OS's blazing with end user complaints. As we speak, DVD (which you never legally owned even after purchase) is being eliminated by the Monkey because they failed with software DRM. BlueRay is their last attempt to do it right (hardware). However, they discovered media streaming is much easier to protect the distribution thanks to the Millennium Digital rights act and their big brother FCC lawyers. It is also supported by the current regime of Cable/Network providers who monitor and throttle content.
People should be more worried of what is going on the back end than worrying about the front end OS's.
I just built an HTPC and it uses 7 and will continue to. Due to some problems and lack of time to sort them it's still mainly used to play DVD's, so good thing Windows 7 comes with that.
My main PC is still using Vista, but I will probably upgrade to 7 in the coming months, to celebrate the release of 8. (Well, actually because I finally caved in and I'm getting an SSD.) I figure I'll continue using 7 for a few years (given that I stuck to Vista until now even though I had a Windows 7 license since its release).
Any word on the price of this "Pro Pack"? Can we expect Win 8 to be cheaper than previous editions as a result?
It occurs to me there's a whole load of features that many windows users don't use or know about. Why not make the whole OS more modular and get the base cost down? Maybe sell Professional with all the usual extras it provides, with a discount over buying them separately?
With that market thingy established they could move to a much more modular architecture: offer an enterprise and a relatively cheap home edition with basic functionality, then offer individual features for a few bucks each, so that if you choose thme all you'd end up at the current typical OS price. Offer demo version of the features as well.
Not sure I'd prefer this over the current approach, though. And many MS tools offered this way would face more fierce competition from freeware tools.. which is not what Ms wants.
Twisting some numbers, 6% sounds low but 30 million doesn't. Given that the install base of Windows 7 is more than 500 million, 6% of that is quite a many users.
Even if it is 7.5 million users (25% of the total who actually use WMC, as measured by Microsoft), then Microsoft couldn't care less. It's not what they want to do, so forget it.
You're going to have to pull win7 out of my cold dead hands.
Seriously I think win7 is going to stick around as stubbornly as winXP. I haven't read of anything that doesn't sound like a worse change from win7 to win8. It might be good for tablets but for desktops and laptops it sounds like a stinker to me.
Actually if it were just a matter of de-buddling everything from the basic OS I wouldn't have a problem with it. If you just download the add ons you use it should give your install a smaller footprint. But if MS charging nominal fees for everything or stops supporting these add ons its going to be a real bummer.
Have you actually used it? because I said the same until I said screw it and I installed the preview. The Metro UI being the start menu takes some getting used to, and it takes some learning, but Windows 8 feels much better than Windows 7. We also don't know how much they will be priced for yet, so everyone that's complaining really has no grounds yet. If the price of Windows 8 is the same as previous versions then yes, it will likely see few upgrades.
"So, instead we’ll plan to explore what competing software has been able to accomplish, particularly MythTV"
Could you also look at what XBMC has to offer as it is a leading, powerful, slick and easy to use competitor in this space. Oh, and it's FREE and has accomplished an awful lot.
Guys, guys, I'm only one man. No, seriously, we'll take a look at everything we can. Please send me any specific requests at the e-mail at the top of the post.
Maybe it's missing some features compared to WMC (don't know since I don't use any of the PVR stuff), but the library functionality seems a lot better IMO. The fact that you can build an HTPC around Linux and save some $$$ makes it nice too.
I, for one, am glad on Microsoft's decision to get rid of Media Center (and I believe Media Player as well?) It bugs me because the software is overtly DRM friendly, mildly unstable (I've had it crash on me several times with simple DVD playback) and to be honest confusing. Since I downloaded Media Player Classic I haven't looked back. It lets me skip the ads that are now standard on DVDs from Redbox, Media Center does not. I can play just about any file extension, Media Center cannot. If I have a file I've ripped from a DVD and I want subtitles (for my foreign friends), MPC will find them, Media Center does not.
I may be in the minority here, but in my opinion their short-sightedness is beneficial in the long run for the state of creative digital content on Windows.
WMC doesn't really shine until you add Media Browser to it.
See, WMC has been for the most part ignored by MS, so you either use other software like MPC, VLC, Myth, or XBMC. Adding Media Browser to WMC helps a lot. Full MyMovies support and works seamlessly across all formats/containers/VOBs once you update your codecs.
MS really doesn't know what it is doing with media. It hit a potential gold mine with WHS and then killed it when they bundled it into the development group responsible for SBS.
Nuff said. Much to rant about some other time. Will not improve the situation if it actually don't work seamlessly. Which more or less nothing does or will on Windows 8, which seams to border around creating new Tools/toolkit or application framework that is still only abstracting old technologies and dividing the platform to no avail.
I am a big user of Media Center. I have tried both MythTV and MediaPortal and find MC much more simple to use i.e. "wife friendly".
I suspect the 3-6 million big MC users will not be happy with this Microfail decision, and will of course explore other options, one being Apple. I bet Apple are rubbing their hands with glee.
The decision to remove DVD playing from WMP is absolutely crazy, everyone I know with a PC has played a DVD on their PC at sometime, and people with laptops (those that have an optical drive) do it all the time. I guess there is alway Media Player Classic (and Apple).
It looks like the era of using a TV connected PC running a Microsoft OS is fast drawing to a close.
I wonder if in 20 years time historians will look back at this decision as the beginning of the end for Microsoft?
I'm sure they won't. Microsoft's decision is rational, based on the increase of online movie viewing vs. DVD's, and the general usage figures of the software. Most people obviously don't buy Windows for its media playback software, and that's reasonable because there are very good alternatives. As an example, I have a very large DVD library, and I still play them sometimes using default Windows software, but I find that ripping them is getting more alluring, because having them on disk does have its benefits. If it wasn't for the relatively high price of hard disks (compared to the past) I might have been converting many of them.
The PC has been so dominant because it really could be all things to all people.
Right now, with Metro, it appears that the PC is going to be a tablet. MS got their ass pounded in the tablet business, but has apparently decided to make their entire OS tablet-based. That is where they will fail.
As MS is peeling away a PC's ability to do everything people will have to find a replacement, and trust me on this, the market doesn't but MS products because they love Windows or Office. They buy them because they have to. Once they won't have to anymore, they won't. And so ends the Windows/Office cash cow. Killed by stupid management.
Once Windows cannot do everything (including play DVDs) people will migrate to other options (Linux, Android ect). Microsoft really needed to add Bluray support to Windows 8 - not remove DVD support! I'm predicting Windows 8 will be a massive flop, and the beginning of the end for Microsoft.
"For a feature to have such low usage, 10 years after it was first introduced, means that whatever efforts to gain traction have failed, and further efforts are unlikely to have great success".
What efforts? Seriously, has anyone here ever seen an ad about Media Center. Do *any* of your non-techie friends or family members even know it exists? If they had actually made **any** effort, it would have gained traction, as it is the best DVR out there.
And it was finally gaining traction in the past 2 years despite the lack of marketing, since the crazy OEM-only restrictions on CableCARD were lifted with Windows 7.
With Motorola suddenly demanding $22.50 for their 50 H.264 patents (while everyone else wants a combined $0.02), I can definitely understand the removal of the codecs if it adds $22.50 to the price.
But then again, the primary preferred codec for tuners to use in WMC is MPEG-2 not H.264. The stripping out H.264 would affect European & Satellite TV tuner users, but not most WMC users in the U.S. (other than for Blu-rays & downloaded videos). And those affected could download free 3rd party codecs.
Also, H.264 is not needed for DVDs. I hope MS reconsiders this decision if that is the case, and maybe just removes the built in H.264 support.
Didn't Microsoft extract $10 per device from Motorola for even more dubious patents? They didn't even tell them what the patents were - just pay us or we will sue. And then Motorola screamed fraud after they finally got to see what those undisclosed patents were.
I've been using Win 7 since release (well, RC) and up until a few months ago I wasn't even aware that Media Center was included in all versions! Maybe Microsoft should advertise it a bit more...?
I only used Windows lately for games (mostly Steam games), and Windows Media Center. I really like Media Center, but I think I'll switch to Ubuntu + MythTV - since Media Center will be abandoned. I installed Ubuntu under Oracle's Virtual Box recently to help develop Android Apps and really like it. I'll try to use Wine to run Steam + native WIndows games.
Good luck with Ubuntu and MythTV. I've tried to use it a few times and finally gave up and went back to WMC. The biggest problem with it is TV tuner driver support from the manufacturers - check out how many DVB-T dual channel tuners are supported and you will see what I mean. Graphics drivers are also a bit average, and last time I checked Bluray support is non-existent.
I haven't the time to figure it out, but I quit using Media Center when it disappeared on its own. Then later Media Player dropped out of my list of programs in Win7-64. 32 bit versions, also. May have dragged them out with no warnings.
"so omitting support for DVD-Video playback, and entirely ignoring BluRay support, is sensible"
Really? What about ISOs on the NAS?(despite what fascists say about what you can do with your own legally purchased software). But I guess I don't have to care since I despised media center after giving it a fair try. No loss.
Anyway, since I use WMC as my only TV 'driver' I'm sad to see this news. My WMC remote learned the volume control for my amp, and the power control for the TV - and since I have a blu-ray installed (with total theatre), I can enjoy TV, recorded TV, music, picture slideshow, DVD, DVD iso and blu-ray movies (including 3D), all with the use of a single, simple remote control.
I've just moved to Indonesia for an assignment, and whilst I wait for shipment to arrive, I'm back to using 3 remotes - TV, DVD/Amp, WMC remote 'plugged 'into the laptop. Since I've no tuner cards, watching live TV 'only' requires 2 remotes but my wife still doesn't 'get it'.
As to the argument that physical media is dead...are you nuts? In Australia it use to take 12 hours or more to download a 5GB game from Steam. How long would a blu-ray take? Versus a 10 minute walk to the local VideoEzy store. In Jakarta I alledgedly have a 1Mpbs connection, so I'm looking at 10.5 hrs to download a DVD. Streaming, I hear you say, but surely the stream still takes 10 hrs - even if the movie itself is only half the disk, it's still 5 hrs; how many movies are 5 hours? So the experience would be all stutter.
Physical media has a long future outside of the USA I think. And as to the option of downloading some xvid or similar version which is smaller - why would I want to compromise the sound and video quality when, again, I can walk to the store and get the full experience? This is especially true for blue-ray - you don't invest in a huge TV and decent sound system to then run something akin to youtube.
And fwiw - it's rare that I have two or three days notice of wanting to watch a movie. Usually it's a spontaneous decision - the 10 minute walk to the store is enough for the other half to get the wine ready :)
So in conclusion I guess I'll be sticking with Windows 7. To be honest, it's no surprise since it seems that Windows 8 is entirely tablet focussed. It's a real shame 'cos Windows 7 is really is a good OS - there's a lot of dumb crap too (like why is control panel alpabetical *horizontally* instead of vertical - I have to shrink the window toone column width to find anything) but mostly it's been reliable and fairly quick for me. I really hoped Win8 would inject something to get excited about but 6 of the 7 devices I use daily (or almost daily) are NOT tablets, and 5 of the 7 are not touch sensitive (as it happens the phone and tablet are both Android)
The problem with alternatives to media center, is that if there's one thing Microsoft are pretty good at, at least for their core products like Windows, it's a fairly rock-solid user experience. Everything is consistent and meets user expectations as far as the UI is concerned. It's this polish that seems to be lacking from the alternatives to media center.
User experience is such a critical component of any HTPC. Most people want their HTPC to be appliance like, which normally means they want a refined experienced. Microsoft thus seems to be the only company to deliver that. That's my impression anyway.
MythTV is very powerful, but it's a nightmare to setup (even for an IT expert), and most importantly the "user experience" is quite poor and definately not wife friendly. The next problem is Linux and lack of tuner card manufacturer driver support (just check how many DVB-T dual channel tuners are supported). Then there's the problem of the lack of blueray support.
XBMC is not too bad as far as user experience goes, but of course there is no built in Live TV support. I do run it, but have discovered lots of small issues that the average user would have no hope resolving.
Simllarly MediaPortal is reasonable but it is still well behind WMC as far as user experience goes - the biggest issue being consistency. It is improving version by version, but in reality it has years to go.
I use cablecard with media center to pipe TV to three separate xbox's in the house. The xbox doesn't extend any other TV system that I'm aware of so thanks I guess for putting a brick wall on it?
Unless vendors are actively going to be informing consumers that Win8 will not play DVD's out of the box, there may be some serious backlash. I know that a lot of PC companies bundle software like WinDVD, but some do not. And what about companies who deploy clean OS installs? Will they also now need to include a separate software in the deployment package just for this? I wonder how much of a price difference per license it would be if Microsoft included this feature in Win8? $2? $5? $10?
don't know if anyone remembers, but windows xp did not play dvd's either. i work in IT and a allot of our clients still use xp, i have to send out a codec pack via group policy for xp to play dvd's and on a personal note, i never use windows media player to play dvd's so this is not an issue for me.
however i do use windows media center religiously. i have an htpc in the living room, garage, and bedroom. but windows media center in itself is kinda horrible, if it wasn't for the plugins i wouldn't use it. i may use media center as the core, but 98% of the time I'm actually in the media browser addon
i have tried xbmc, jriver, media portal, boxee, etc. and i still always go back to WMC and media browser.
yes i am a little irritated that WMC is going to be extra, but I'm hoping it works out for the better. wmc has looked the same since XPMCE, im hoping if people buy the program they work more on making it better. i want a better and more customizable UI, and allot more customization.
Or is this just like our games, where they raise the price from $40-60, screw you out of your manuals/box, etc.
All these things that supposedly reduce the cost only end up costing more while we get less. For example: CD Projekt made the WITCHER 2 with NO DRM (saves MONEY correct?). Yet for all the expense DRM is supposed to cost, the WITCHER 2 came out at the same price as every other DRM INFESTED game on the planet at $60. What happened to the savings? Small developer with little to no corp overhead, and still no savings. I did not buy this game. I buy a lot of GOG stuff, but refuse to pay full price for something that should be cheaper to sell to me since the cost of DRM isn't in the game. Downloadable too so no media/box. Why wasn't it $40? Do we have any estimates of what DRM costs? What does it cost to put securom on a game (assuming $60, how much of that price is DRM?)? DVD's aren't going anywhere, windows should be able to launch a dvd...Jeez. A $300 OS can't run a movie? Start Menu is gone? When did Microsoft decide it was OK to go BACKWARDS in development?
Nearly everything added to this junk OS will only slow you down. I've yet to see anything I can do quicker in Win8 than I can in Win7 (and neither holds a candle to XP 64, with drivers still being updated by NV/AMD etc..). I hope this OS dies a quick death. IT nightmares will ensue if not.
Is it me or is Windows 8 trying to eliminate the RIGHT CLICK from the UI? Just opinion based on what I've read about it. I've never used it. Is this a fair statement?
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dagamer34 - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
I would get angry and flustered at this removal, but it's obvious that Windows Media Center will never gain the same level of use as Windows Media Player or Internet Explorer. And it really makes no sense to pay for a DVD license when the future of computers is Ultrabook type machines.If anything, I just want to skip over the requirement of CableCards to direct IPTV-based platforms which rely only on an Internet connection and a login to work. Watching TV should be as stupidly simple as Netflix. Everything from now until then is just silly corporate bickering from people who want their cut of the pie.
A5 - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
"Everything from now until then is just silly corporate bickering from people who want their cut of the pie."And massive technical issues. An IPTV network is a fundamentally different from a traditional cable network.
JKflipflop98 - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Technical issues? In the age of streaming media, that was about the lamest argument you could possibly pull out of the hat. Technical issues are at the bottom of the list as far as reasons we don't have IPTV. The #1 spot goes to "corporate greed by media executives".Lerianis - Monday, May 14, 2012 - link
Agreed there, JK. The bottom line is that 'technical issues' are not the problem, it is the greed of the people who make the TV shows and other things in question.They keep on wanting their farking DRM that does not stop ANY piracy and just drives people to 'pirated' things to not have to deal with the problems from DRM.
cknobman - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
I use media center on my server as a media extender for my crapbox 360's on multiple tv's throughout the house.That is the only way I am able to get my 360's to play certain file formats.
Guess I wont be upgrading (my server at least) to Windows 8 anytime soon.
mcnabney - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
I wonder if anyone at Microsoft pointed out that 6% of Windows 7 users is 30 million? So Microsoft is telling a population about half the size of the global X-box 360 market to screw off.Their stupidity cruxified WHS2, essentially destroying the Home Server market that was steadily growing. And why? Let's get rid of Drive Extender and make the OS useless. And their reasons turned out to be complete lies, since they are putting drive extender in Win8. What percentage of Win7 installs use multiple hard drives? Probably less than 6%. I thought you could safely ignore such a small group? I would also point out that drive extender doesn't work well with the most common new configuration of multiple drives - an SSD and a magnetic. Those drives DON'T want to be pooled since you put very different things on each.
Microsoft is going to blame others for their pending decline (like IE), but they are giving others an opportunity to drink their milkshake by doing stupid things like this. I'll keep Win7 around for a while, but it is unlikely to be replaced by more Microsoft stuff if this kind of crap continues. I have a habit of dragging dozens of other users with me - one of the reasons that Chrome is doing so well now.
Maiyr - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
"I have a habit of dragging dozens of other users with me - one of the reasons that Chrome is doing so well now."Now that is hilarious. Google should certainly bring you on-board as your 24 users have single-handedly boosted Chrome into the spotlight.
That is the funniest shit I have read all day. ROFL
Maiyr
Lerianis - Monday, May 14, 2012 - link
Actually, it's kinda true. The people who post on here are 'techies' and therefore are going to have a lot more weight than 'average Joe Schmoe' on the street with their families on tech issues.When I told MY family members to switch to Firefox, they did that.
killerb255 - Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - link
Yes, but it's still a very narcissistic claim, reeking of "It's all about me, me, me, me, me!"The Jedi - Friday, May 11, 2012 - link
Preach own brother man.I get what you mean with their overall product quality with IE causing defections to Chrome. And I'm right there with you with MC7 and WHS.
guidryp - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
I didn't like Win8 even before this announcement. As one of the 6% I like it even less.I don't like the changes to the desktop. I don't Metro, and I wouldn't want to be charged extra for Metro (which likely involves online credit card transactions with Microsoft).
guidryp - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
No edit?I meant charged extra for WMC.
MonkeyPaw - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Ironically, the only purpose of Windows in my home is for WMC on my HTPC. I use Linux on my desktop. I have no interest in Windows 8 whatsoever, and have a total lack of confidence in MS, save their Xbox division.It does beg the question--if Windows 8 is not paying the encoding royalties, does that mean the consumer sees the savings? I bet I know the answer to that, unless MS plans to compete with Apple on OS pricing.
Speaking of Apple, I guess they won the BluRay battle. They never supported it in-house, and it looks like BluRay is just going to be relegated to the sub-$100 set-top box option. Maybe the next format will go on memory sticks. I sure don't want to download/stream all my content, since ISPs bill by the bit.
ananduser - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
As long as you payed for a Win license Ballmer loves you.Perhaps W8 will be a tad cheaper or maybe not. I don't think there is room for comparison between Apple's 30$ upgrade and MS' stand alone OS.
There never was a battle between Apple and MS for BluRay. Unfortunately people that have an innate lack of confidence towards all things MS have a contrarian attitude that makes them see "battles" all over the place. And BR and DVD playback *will* be supported just not by default, only through the Media Center add-on; Apple still doesn't support it(not that is good or bad, just their choice).
Alexvrb - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Windows has remained pretty reasonably priced over the years. Look back towards the WinXP days, and then figure in 10 years of inflation. Not too bad, all things considered, and Win8 looks to be the most efficient version yet.mcnabney - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
I would also point out that WMC and codecs are only available to those users that purchase the most expensive tier of Windows. Premium users CANNOT HAVE MEDIACENTER OR CODECS.MySchizoBuddy - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
there are plenty of third party Bluray players for Macs. So you are covered. Apple doesn't have to support everything.jeremyshaw - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
To compete with apple in pricing, one must consider how many OS releases apple makes in the same time it takes MS to do one.jontech - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
We also have to take into effect MS's 50 percent rule as seen belowWindows ME
Windows XP
Windows Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8
vnangia - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Yup, ditto. We use Windows for two purposes around the house - HTPC (WIn7) and file storage (WHS); we're otherwise an all Mac household. If there was a decent way to decode Cablecard on a Mac (Elgato, you listening?), that would be the end of the HTPC. And then I'd be completely happy to move up to Mac OS X Server for the mass storage.Wolfpup - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
Yikes...removing Media Center is lame, removing DVD support is even lamer. Instead of adding native Blu Ray, the remove DVD? Umm....Add that to the removal of the start menu,. and I've gotten super, super leery about Windows 8. The ONLY the that doesn't have me calling it a complete disaster is just that the changes in Windows 7 sounded scary, but ended up not being that major.
GoodBytes - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
What sucks the most, is that even though you purchase the add-on pack of Windows 8 Pro, you STILL can't play DVD in Windows Media Player. Only Media Center will be able to play them. That sucks.I like Windows Media Player 12 a lot, especially the 64-bit version, instantly load large video files, with itself, clean and nice look, and provides excellent playback of DVD's.
Now I have to purchase PowerDVD or similar codec pack, and use their ugly, badly programed special player. Or use VLC and enjoy my DVD with a high frame skip, which is does on all my systems.
Dracusis - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I've never noticed any issues with DVD playback through VLC for either PC or Mac.DVDs are a bit of a dead medium now though. Just rip them onto a TB drive using x264 and be done with it.
dananski - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Looks like all the DVDs I ripped to vob files won't work either, and hard disk space is so cheap I never bothered to transcode them.I'm not a big fan of VLC for everyday playback, (though I appreciate its versatility) but I'm sure there'll be plenty of alternatives.
jeffkro - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I have found that GOM works pretty wellWatwatwat - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
also has better audio during time stretch than vlc, vlc is a nice fall back at times but their developers are only interested in their own interests, they can't be bothered to fix stuff that has been broken for 10 years, like global hotkeys or anything else, so gom will have better time stretch sound quality for years to come...MySchizoBuddy - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
You can always donate to VLC and have them fix the problems you find troubling.Ignatius - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I've ripped plenty of DVDs with Anydvd. Can you tell me what can be used to rip them to x264?Tallin - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - link
Handbrake: handbrake.frDenithor - Thursday, May 17, 2012 - link
Best method I've found is use AnyDVD to do the initial rip onto the hdd and then use Handbrake to recode into x264 mp4 format. Nearly the same quality as the original disc but much less space taken for each movie.A5 - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
The #1 issue right now (as far as live TV goes, anyway) is that it won't let you watch or record anything that isn't flagged "copy-freely" by your provider. The channels that this covers varies widely by provider (apparently Time Warner marks everything "copy-once", for example).WMC will let you watch copy-freely, copy-once, and copy-never (think PPV events) and record the first two. So if you want to replicate the telco DVR experience as much as possible, WMC is pretty much the only choice. A damn shame, since WMC7 is actually really good.
jeffkro - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
This is why I stuck an antenna on the roof instead of going with cable. I can record and transfer everything that my antenna can pick up. If I want to watch any HBO programs (Game of Thrones) I can stream or download them from Amazon or itunes.Watwatwat - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
WMC had the foundation to be something great, but they gimped it as usual, you have to add plugins and the rest and still navigation is a chore, support for popular file formats, things like subtitles are not right and the rest, they never took it beyond its original functionality, stuff they should have added through the years they never bothered with, they let it play the wmv's and dvds and perhaps a tv tuner and called it a day when most people want more, especially folks with media libraries and the rest.Now if they make it optional they will just drive the rest to use xbmc.
CoreDuo - Saturday, May 5, 2012 - link
You're pretty boned with CableCARD if you're with a cable provider where most of the channels are encrypted. At that point, Windows Media Center is your only good option.ant6n - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
It'd be cool if they could put the TV playback functionality (with subtitles and epg) and just put it in a stand-alone app.kmmatney - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I don't get why this is an add-on for the "Pro" version - having this for the Home version would make more sense.ahinson - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
If I recall, this was answered on the Windows blog and it's because in order for WMC to work you'll need access to things that are part of the license pack included in Pro.gcoupe - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Not so. The seven additional features of Windows 8 Pro (BitLocker and BitLocker To Go, Boot from VHD, Client Hyper-V, Domain Join, Encrypting File System, Group Policy and Remote Desktop (host)) have absolutely nothing to do with helping WMC to work. They are totally irrelevant for an HTPC.This is purely a marketing decision. And one that deliberately restricts the take-up of WMC 8. That way, Microsoft will be able to kill it off and say: "See? We told you that no-one was interested in it..."
ET - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Agreed. I'm sure what it will achieve is put people off using it, and have them move to other software or stick with Windows 7.B3an - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Pro still has different licensing. And while 6% LAUNCHED WMP to see what the heck it is, less than that actually used WMP. From Microsoft:<i>"However, most people are just looking around; only one quarter (25% of 6%) of these people used it for more than 10 minutes per session (individual averages), and in 59% of Media Center sessions (by these 6% of users) we see almost no activity (less than a minute or two of usage)."</i>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/02/refl...
@Jason, maybe add this to the article?
I just hope the costs saved from licensing codecs reduces the cost of Win 8 slightly.
JasonInofuentes - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I thought the user engagement statistics were throwing salt in the wound, so I left them out. I doubt that the cost of Win 8 will come down based on this change. They're calling the add-on one of nominal cost because it probably won't be more than the cost of the license, say $10-20. The nominal point also works to justify not lowering the price of Win 8 vs. Win 7.mcnabney - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
Even with you degradation of 6% by a quarter - you are still talking about 8 million frequent users.And any savings Microsoft sees from yanking licenses will be tossed on their pile of $60B in cash. You have no choice, you will pay what they want.
I would also point out that POWER users frequently DON'T check 'send Microsoft feedback' - and that is where those numbers come from. I know I don't send anything to MS and I use Mediacenter every day.
I hope Google is paying attention. With their continued efforts on GoogleTV despite limited success, I think they might use Win8's weaknesses to steal the HTPC market.
dextrous - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
Actually RDP host is used for media center. An extender connects to the PC via RDP session. An extender even creates a new user account on your PC to use when logging in.glugglug - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
It might have something to do with Remote Desktop. Extenders communicate with Media Center using RDP for the UI, but on port 3390 instead of 3389. (There is a separate RTSP connection for the video stream). One of the big features in Windows 8 is RemoteFX, which might even make the video stream work in a regular RDP session. Anyone with the beta tried RDP on port 3390 to see if you can use another PC as an extender?ET - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Windows 7 already includes the licenses. If someone upgrades from 7 to 8 it will make sense to keep them and allow WMC to work out of the box.gcoupe - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
No. According to Microsoft's Bernardo Caldas (in a comment to the FAQ post):"The usage rights to these codecs needed to play DVD do not carry forward to a new version of Windows after you upgrade. These terms are defined by the licensors of these technologies, not Microsoft or OEMs."
MonkeyPaw - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Talk about passing the buck. Feature removal seems to be the Windows 8 sales pitch.Articuno - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
They seriously expect me to pay for the special version of the OS, pay for something that should have been in the OS in the first place on top of that and then have the audacity to tell me it can't even play DVDs?It's insane. Simply insane. They made Windows 7, which has sold 525 million copies and is the fastest selling OS in computing history, yet they do a complete 360 degree turn and make this Windows 8 garbage... and for what? They're just going to lose money when people buy even more copies of Win7.
daniel142005 - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
Unless Windows 8 is priced closer to other software. If Windows 8 is half the price of Windows 7, people will buy Windows 8 and just get some $20-$30 DVD software (most consumers don't know about the free alternatives)mcnabney - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
Also have buy Win8 Pro, which replaces Ultimate as the top Windows version.Penti - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
Actually Professional doesn't replace Enterprise/Ultimate it gains most features but not all of the new ones..robinthakur - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - link
Somewhat more amusingly, our MS representatives have been sending development diaries to us for the last year, teasing Windows 8 in a very excited way. Recently with the upcoming launch they have ben unable to contain their excitement and have invited a load of people to a executive preview of the software. Whilst I am personally not interested in it beyond seeing what it looks like, I ignored the email, only to find another one this week lamenting that interest was somewhat less than had been hoped for and pleading for more attendence.To me there is no reason to upgrade to Windows 8 beyond having the latest and greatest, but its not really designed for a desktop experience, which is how I would use it and certain features which I would use like WMC are severely compromised. What is worse is that MS are in severe and genuine danger of losing the interest of business in a bid to chase the consumer and business bucks which Apple has successfully won with the iPhone and iPad. Try showing anyone in business the benefits of the Windows 8 Metro interface on their dual 24" monitors, they don't really see the point, and I'm not sure there is one other than making it tablet friendly. Windows 7 works absolutely fine on a desktop and will do for some many years to come.
r3loaded - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
They claim that they need to charge extra due to royalties for the codecs needed for playing DVDs and Blu-rays - but then come programs like MPC-HC and VLC can play them for free?ET - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
To quote Wikipedia: "At least one recent release of the VLC media player software is able to read video and audio data from DVDs that incorporate Content Scramble System (CSS) encryption, even though the VLC media player software lacks a CSS decryption license.[47] The unauthorized decryption of CSS-encrypted DVD content and/or the unauthorized distribution of CSS decryption tools may violate the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act"MEZTEK - Monday, August 13, 2012 - link
I am a LINUX GUY/ MythTV and now a Google TV tinkerer. So, I am the last person to defend Microsoft but don't you think that Microsoft is tired of having the Monkey (Movie/Entertainment Industry) on their backs. Have you seen what the Monkey has been doing to Google? Especially, now that HTLM5 is on the horizon. Maybe, this could be the right posture of Microsoft for now.This Monkey is the POKER that has all the OS's blazing with end user complaints. As we speak, DVD (which you never legally owned even after purchase) is being eliminated by the Monkey because they failed with software DRM. BlueRay is their last attempt to do it right (hardware). However, they discovered media streaming is much easier to protect the distribution thanks to the Millennium Digital rights act and their big brother FCC lawyers. It is also supported by the current regime of Cable/Network providers who monitor and throttle content.
People should be more worried of what is going on the back end than worrying about the front end OS's.
gcoupe - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
This article by Ed Bott gives useful background to the legal jungle:http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/if-vlc-can-ship-a-f...
ET - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
Thanks for the link.I just built an HTPC and it uses 7 and will continue to. Due to some problems and lack of time to sort them it's still mainly used to play DVD's, so good thing Windows 7 comes with that.
My main PC is still using Vista, but I will probably upgrade to 7 in the coming months, to celebrate the release of 8. (Well, actually because I finally caved in and I'm getting an SSD.) I figure I'll continue using 7 for a few years (given that I stuck to Vista until now even though I had a Windows 7 license since its release).
Taft12 - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
Well then Windows 8 should cost less than Windows 7, right? Riiiightdananski - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Any word on the price of this "Pro Pack"? Can we expect Win 8 to be cheaper than previous editions as a result?It occurs to me there's a whole load of features that many windows users don't use or know about. Why not make the whole OS more modular and get the base cost down? Maybe sell Professional with all the usual extras it provides, with a discount over buying them separately?
MrSpadge - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
With that market thingy established they could move to a much more modular architecture: offer an enterprise and a relatively cheap home edition with basic functionality, then offer individual features for a few bucks each, so that if you choose thme all you'd end up at the current typical OS price. Offer demo version of the features as well.Not sure I'd prefer this over the current approach, though. And many MS tools offered this way would face more fierce competition from freeware tools.. which is not what Ms wants.
NMiksu - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Twisting some numbers, 6% sounds low but 30 million doesn't. Given that the install base of Windows 7 is more than 500 million, 6% of that is quite a many users.gcoupe - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Even if it is 7.5 million users (25% of the total who actually use WMC, as measured by Microsoft), then Microsoft couldn't care less. It's not what they want to do, so forget it.zlandar - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I'm part of that 6%. Win 8 is DOA for me.jeffkro - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
You're going to have to pull win7 out of my cold dead hands.Seriously I think win7 is going to stick around as stubbornly as winXP. I haven't read of anything that doesn't sound like a worse change from win7 to win8. It might be good for tablets but for desktops and laptops it sounds like a stinker to me.
jeffkro - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Actually if it were just a matter of de-buddling everything from the basic OS I wouldn't have a problem with it. If you just download the add ons you use it should give your install a smaller footprint. But if MS charging nominal fees for everything or stops supporting these add ons its going to be a real bummer.daniel142005 - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
Have you actually used it? because I said the same until I said screw it and I installed the preview. The Metro UI being the start menu takes some getting used to, and it takes some learning, but Windows 8 feels much better than Windows 7. We also don't know how much they will be priced for yet, so everyone that's complaining really has no grounds yet. If the price of Windows 8 is the same as previous versions then yes, it will likely see few upgrades.ET - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
In what way does Windows 8 feel better? I only ran it in a VM, so obviously my experience was skewed by that.JNo - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
"So, instead we’ll plan to explore what competing software has been able to accomplish, particularly MythTV"Could you also look at what XBMC has to offer as it is a leading, powerful, slick and easy to use competitor in this space. Oh, and it's FREE and has accomplished an awful lot.
CityZen - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
And could you take a look at MediaPortal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/) too? Together with XBMC I think they're the ones to beat in the HTPC space. And maybe include NextPVR (http://www.nextpvr.com/) also.JasonInofuentes - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Guys, guys, I'm only one man. No, seriously, we'll take a look at everything we can. Please send me any specific requests at the e-mail at the top of the post.Jason
jwcalla - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
Definitely an XBMC fan.Maybe it's missing some features compared to WMC (don't know since I don't use any of the PVR stuff), but the library functionality seems a lot better IMO. The fact that you can build an HTPC around Linux and save some $$$ makes it nice too.
ArenaNinja - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I, for one, am glad on Microsoft's decision to get rid of Media Center (and I believe Media Player as well?) It bugs me because the software is overtly DRM friendly, mildly unstable (I've had it crash on me several times with simple DVD playback) and to be honest confusing. Since I downloaded Media Player Classic I haven't looked back. It lets me skip the ads that are now standard on DVDs from Redbox, Media Center does not. I can play just about any file extension, Media Center cannot. If I have a file I've ripped from a DVD and I want subtitles (for my foreign friends), MPC will find them, Media Center does not.I may be in the minority here, but in my opinion their short-sightedness is beneficial in the long run for the state of creative digital content on Windows.
mcnabney - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
WMC doesn't really shine until you add Media Browser to it.See, WMC has been for the most part ignored by MS, so you either use other software like MPC, VLC, Myth, or XBMC. Adding Media Browser to WMC helps a lot. Full MyMovies support and works seamlessly across all formats/containers/VOBs once you update your codecs.
MS really doesn't know what it is doing with media. It hit a potential gold mine with WHS and then killed it when they bundled it into the development group responsible for SBS.
Penti - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
Nuff said. Much to rant about some other time. Will not improve the situation if it actually don't work seamlessly. Which more or less nothing does or will on Windows 8, which seams to border around creating new Tools/toolkit or application framework that is still only abstracting old technologies and dividing the platform to no avail.mcquade181 - Sunday, May 6, 2012 - link
I am a big user of Media Center.I have tried both MythTV and MediaPortal and find MC much more simple to use i.e. "wife friendly".
I suspect the 3-6 million big MC users will not be happy with this Microfail decision, and will of course explore other options, one being Apple. I bet Apple are rubbing their hands with glee.
The decision to remove DVD playing from WMP is absolutely crazy, everyone I know with a PC has played a DVD on their PC at sometime, and people with laptops (those that have an optical drive) do it all the time. I guess there is alway Media Player Classic (and Apple).
It looks like the era of using a TV connected PC running a Microsoft OS is fast drawing to a close.
I wonder if in 20 years time historians will look back at this decision as the beginning of the end for Microsoft?
ET - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
I'm sure they won't. Microsoft's decision is rational, based on the increase of online movie viewing vs. DVD's, and the general usage figures of the software. Most people obviously don't buy Windows for its media playback software, and that's reasonable because there are very good alternatives. As an example, I have a very large DVD library, and I still play them sometimes using default Windows software, but I find that ripping them is getting more alluring, because having them on disk does have its benefits. If it wasn't for the relatively high price of hard disks (compared to the past) I might have been converting many of them.mcnabney - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
Actually it will.The PC has been so dominant because it really could be all things to all people.
Right now, with Metro, it appears that the PC is going to be a tablet. MS got their ass pounded in the tablet business, but has apparently decided to make their entire OS tablet-based. That is where they will fail.
As MS is peeling away a PC's ability to do everything people will have to find a replacement, and trust me on this, the market doesn't but MS products because they love Windows or Office. They buy them because they have to. Once they won't have to anymore, they won't. And so ends the Windows/Office cash cow. Killed by stupid management.
mcquade181 - Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - link
Well said mcnabney.Once Windows cannot do everything (including play DVDs) people will migrate to other options (Linux, Android ect).
Microsoft really needed to add Bluray support to Windows 8 - not remove DVD support!
I'm predicting Windows 8 will be a massive flop, and the beginning of the end for Microsoft.
glugglug - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
"For a feature to have such low usage, 10 years after it was first introduced, means that whatever efforts to gain traction have failed, and further efforts are unlikely to have great success".What efforts? Seriously, has anyone here ever seen an ad about Media Center. Do *any* of your non-techie friends or family members even know it exists? If they had actually made **any** effort, it would have gained traction, as it is the best DVR out there.
And it was finally gaining traction in the past 2 years despite the lack of marketing, since the crazy OEM-only restrictions on CableCARD were lifted with Windows 7.
So sad....
glugglug - Monday, May 7, 2012 - link
With Motorola suddenly demanding $22.50 for their 50 H.264 patents (while everyone else wants a combined $0.02), I can definitely understand the removal of the codecs if it adds $22.50 to the price.But then again, the primary preferred codec for tuners to use in WMC is MPEG-2 not H.264. The stripping out H.264 would affect European & Satellite TV tuner users, but not most WMC users in the U.S. (other than for Blu-rays & downloaded videos). And those affected could download free 3rd party codecs.
Also, H.264 is not needed for DVDs. I hope MS reconsiders this decision if that is the case, and maybe just removes the built in H.264 support.
mcnabney - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
Didn't Microsoft extract $10 per device from Motorola for even more dubious patents? They didn't even tell them what the patents were - just pay us or we will sue. And then Motorola screamed fraud after they finally got to see what those undisclosed patents were.Screw MS.
Ultraman1966 - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
I've been using Win 7 since release (well, RC) and up until a few months ago I wasn't even aware that Media Center was included in all versions! Maybe Microsoft should advertise it a bit more...?danot - Tuesday, May 8, 2012 - link
I only used Windows lately for games (mostly Steam games), and Windows Media Center. I really like Media Center, but I think I'll switch to Ubuntu + MythTV - since Media Center will be abandoned. I installed Ubuntu under Oracle's Virtual Box recently to help develop Android Apps and really like it. I'll try to use Wine to run Steam + native WIndows games.mcquade181 - Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - link
Good luck with Ubuntu and MythTV. I've tried to use it a few times and finally gave up and went back to WMC.The biggest problem with it is TV tuner driver support from the manufacturers - check out how many DVB-T dual channel tuners are supported and you will see what I mean.
Graphics drivers are also a bit average, and last time I checked Bluray support is non-existent.
skifiddle - Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - link
I haven't the time to figure it out, but I quit using Media Center when it disappeared on its own. Then later Media Player dropped out of my list of programs in Win7-64. 32 bit versions, also. May have dragged them out with no warnings.slyck - Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - link
"so omitting support for DVD-Video playback, and entirely ignoring BluRay support, is sensible"Really? What about ISOs on the NAS?(despite what fascists say about what you can do with your own legally purchased software). But I guess I don't have to care since I despised media center after giving it a fair try. No loss.
slyck - Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - link
meant to say 'legally purchased media'Disorganise - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - link
Business users don't have media centre right?Anyway, since I use WMC as my only TV 'driver' I'm sad to see this news. My WMC remote learned the volume control for my amp, and the power control for the TV - and since I have a blu-ray installed (with total theatre), I can enjoy TV, recorded TV, music, picture slideshow, DVD, DVD iso and blu-ray movies (including 3D), all with the use of a single, simple remote control.
I've just moved to Indonesia for an assignment, and whilst I wait for shipment to arrive, I'm back to using 3 remotes - TV, DVD/Amp, WMC remote 'plugged 'into the laptop. Since I've no tuner cards, watching live TV 'only' requires 2 remotes but my wife still doesn't 'get it'.
As to the argument that physical media is dead...are you nuts? In Australia it use to take 12 hours or more to download a 5GB game from Steam. How long would a blu-ray take? Versus a 10 minute walk to the local VideoEzy store. In Jakarta I alledgedly have a 1Mpbs connection, so I'm looking at 10.5 hrs to download a DVD. Streaming, I hear you say, but surely the stream still takes 10 hrs - even if the movie itself is only half the disk, it's still 5 hrs; how many movies are 5 hours? So the experience would be all stutter.
Physical media has a long future outside of the USA I think. And as to the option of downloading some xvid or similar version which is smaller - why would I want to compromise the sound and video quality when, again, I can walk to the store and get the full experience? This is especially true for blue-ray - you don't invest in a huge TV and decent sound system to then run something akin to youtube.
And fwiw - it's rare that I have two or three days notice of wanting to watch a movie. Usually it's a spontaneous decision - the 10 minute walk to the store is enough for the other half to get the wine ready :)
So in conclusion I guess I'll be sticking with Windows 7. To be honest, it's no surprise since it seems that Windows 8 is entirely tablet focussed. It's a real shame 'cos Windows 7 is really is a good OS - there's a lot of dumb crap too (like why is control panel alpabetical *horizontally* instead of vertical - I have to shrink the window toone column width to find anything) but mostly it's been reliable and fairly quick for me. I really hoped Win8 would inject something to get excited about but 6 of the 7 devices I use daily (or almost daily) are NOT tablets, and 5 of the 7 are not touch sensitive (as it happens the phone and tablet are both Android)
Wardrop - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - link
The problem with alternatives to media center, is that if there's one thing Microsoft are pretty good at, at least for their core products like Windows, it's a fairly rock-solid user experience. Everything is consistent and meets user expectations as far as the UI is concerned. It's this polish that seems to be lacking from the alternatives to media center.User experience is such a critical component of any HTPC. Most people want their HTPC to be appliance like, which normally means they want a refined experienced. Microsoft thus seems to be the only company to deliver that. That's my impression anyway.
mcquade181 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - link
Yes I agree.MythTV is very powerful, but it's a nightmare to setup (even for an IT expert), and most importantly the "user experience" is quite poor and definately not wife friendly. The next problem is Linux and lack of tuner card manufacturer driver support (just check how many DVB-T dual channel tuners are supported). Then there's the problem of the lack of blueray support.
XBMC is not too bad as far as user experience goes, but of course there is no built in Live TV support. I do run it, but have discovered lots of small issues that the average user would have no hope resolving.
Simllarly MediaPortal is reasonable but it is still well behind WMC as far as user experience goes - the biggest issue being consistency. It is improving version by version, but in reality it has years to go.
OldPueblo - Friday, May 11, 2012 - link
I use cablecard with media center to pipe TV to three separate xbox's in the house. The xbox doesn't extend any other TV system that I'm aware of so thanks I guess for putting a brick wall on it?saishowaguu - Sunday, May 13, 2012 - link
Unless vendors are actively going to be informing consumers that Win8 will not play DVD's out of the box, there may be some serious backlash.I know that a lot of PC companies bundle software like WinDVD, but some do not. And what about companies who deploy clean OS installs? Will they also now need to include a separate software in the deployment package just for this?
I wonder how much of a price difference per license it would be if Microsoft included this feature in Win8? $2? $5? $10?
MrReclusive - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - link
don't know if anyone remembers, but windows xp did not play dvd's either.i work in IT and a allot of our clients still use xp, i have to send out a codec pack via group policy for xp to play dvd's
and on a personal note, i never use windows media player to play dvd's so this is not an issue for me.
however i do use windows media center religiously. i have an htpc in the living room, garage, and bedroom. but windows media center in itself is kinda horrible, if it wasn't for the plugins i wouldn't use it.
i may use media center as the core, but 98% of the time I'm actually in the media browser addon
i have tried xbmc, jriver, media portal, boxee, etc. and i still always go back to WMC and media browser.
yes i am a little irritated that WMC is going to be extra, but I'm hoping it works out for the better.
wmc has looked the same since XPMCE, im hoping if people buy the program they work more on making it better.
i want a better and more customizable UI, and allot more customization.
MrReclusive - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - link
im sure it wont be hard to copy WMC from 7 to 8..TheJian - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - link
Leave it in or drop the price $20 per version.Or is this just like our games, where they raise the price from $40-60, screw you out of your manuals/box, etc.
All these things that supposedly reduce the cost only end up costing more while we get less. For example: CD Projekt made the WITCHER 2 with NO DRM (saves MONEY correct?). Yet for all the expense DRM is supposed to cost, the WITCHER 2 came out at the same price as every other DRM INFESTED game on the planet at $60. What happened to the savings? Small developer with little to no corp overhead, and still no savings. I did not buy this game. I buy a lot of GOG stuff, but refuse to pay full price for something that should be cheaper to sell to me since the cost of DRM isn't in the game. Downloadable too so no media/box. Why wasn't it $40? Do we have any estimates of what DRM costs? What does it cost to put securom on a game (assuming $60, how much of that price is DRM?)? DVD's aren't going anywhere, windows should be able to launch a dvd...Jeez. A $300 OS can't run a movie? Start Menu is gone? When did Microsoft decide it was OK to go BACKWARDS in development?
Nearly everything added to this junk OS will only slow you down. I've yet to see anything I can do quicker in Win8 than I can in Win7 (and neither holds a candle to XP 64, with drivers still being updated by NV/AMD etc..). I hope this OS dies a quick death. IT nightmares will ensue if not.
Denithor - Thursday, May 17, 2012 - link
Windows 8 shaping up to be the next Vista.Seems like every other Windows launch seriously sucks. 98 wasn't too bad, ME sucked, XP was good, Vista sucked, 7 is good, etc.
Grandpa - Sunday, May 20, 2012 - link
Is it me or is Windows 8 trying to eliminate the RIGHT CLICK from the UI? Just opinion based on what I've read about it. I've never used it. Is this a fair statement?snake4812 - Monday, May 21, 2012 - link
Isn't the 6% number based on people who agree to report their usage to Microsoft or whatever.Just a hunch but I would assume the vast majority of people using WMC regularly are the exact types of people that never agree to that stuff
mcquade181 - Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - link
Good point, I think you are correct.Mind you, even 6% of 500 million is 30 million which is still an awful lot of customers to piss off.