"If you're wondering how is this still an Ultrabook, Intel requires +14" laptops to be thinner than 21mm, which translates to 0.83" - there is no weight limit. For sub-14" laptops, the height limit is 18mm (0.71")."
Ugh, and here I thought it was difficult to tell the difference between a netbook and a "subcompact laptop".
It's all moot since Ultrabooks are a market failure before they've even been released. I hope this costs Intel and any OEM that buys into the Ultrabook scam a fortune.
Netbooks came into being because of Atom CPUs even though that isn't a static definition. I think Intel has very specific requirements for their Ultrabooks, including the CPU.
(a) People buy computers based on a gestalt of price, appearance, performance, etc. Intel tried to nudge its vendors towards some higher priced, better looking, reasonably performing designs rather than the (netbook: cheap, too small to be useful, horrible performance) and (laptop: cheap, huge, OK performance) models they were shipping. The issue is not the legalities of exactly what the Intel specs are and what the penalties are if they're missed; it is that Intel achieved its goal. This time last year there were very few reasonable MBA competitors, now there are a lot.
(b) You claim the market for Ultrabooks is a failure. Based on what? The MBA market is certainly anything BUT a failure; and most of these competitors came out so recently that we have no idea how they're selling. Many of the first round of MBA competitors have been underwhelming (somewhat like the 1st gen MBA itself), but not all of them. I think an honest person would admit they have NO IDEA how this will play out --- both for the category as a whole, and for which vendors in the category.
You seem to suffer from the sort of extreme narcissism that is all too common on technical blogs: "This device is not right for me, therefore it is a curse upon the world, anyone who buys it is an idiot who should be shunned, and it will fail horribly". Grow up.
Furthermore Taft12 you miss the point that Intel has track record in this game - it's very arguable that they greatly accelerated the uptake of wireless capable laptops with the centrino brand and specification.
Yes, I too see it all as a cynical marketing ploy but if it helps bring upon a standard that I would find use of, then I'm not totally against it either. I personally think it likely that the ultrabook category will become a success. Which is good because their imminent abundance might actually make it possible for me to afford one one day :)
Seems like a great Macbook Air competitor I'd totally recommend for someone who wants Windows and actually WANTS an Air...but just like the Air, I can't help but go "umm...I can get way better hardware for the same price or less".
Why not this one ? The 13" MBA goes as high as 1600$, the entry level Spectre is 1400$ and comes standard with an IPS based Radiance display that is better in every way. If you want Windows you have a brilliant lower end choice in Folio or Dell's recently unveiled ultrabook or for premium the Spectre or the recently revamped Series9 from Sammy that even goes to 15"(a first for an ultrabook). Oh and the bootcamp drivers for Windows are legacy IDE which severely impact the system's IOPS.
The fact is that you're a pretty staunch Apple supported and thus cannot see further than your preferences or personal experience.
"If they want a MBA and want Windows" pretty much covers it, I think, ananduser. Passionate defence though - also the newly unveiled version of the Series9 looks amazing.
Also, you're being super aggressive. What exactly is your use case where legacy IDE is the critical performance bottleneck in a 13in laptop that comes standard with an under-sized 5400 rpm hard drive?
Anecdote: I bootcamp Win XP on my 13 in MBP, and weirdly I'll grant you, I actually got better performance for my battery time on my last flight with XP than OS X. OS X ate through 25% of my batter in about 30 minutes, and after I switched to XP I was fine for the rest of the 5 hour flight (same typing, light browsing the whole time).
Now if only they'd release drivers to support advanced multi-touch in XP...
*I* am passionate ? I am all for common sense, the mac fanbase is the one over the top. My pseudo-issue is this; how can you say that the MBA is the only ultrabook choice for windows when you have brilliant options both premium and value thoroughly reviewed on all tech blogs. I am not aggressive mind you, I speak the truth. Bootcamp drivers are there to help you run Windows for the odd Win app, and not to provide the optimal experience. I would imagine that the IOPS hit is more observable on synthetic benchmarks.
I am happy for your MBP and I hope it lasts you forever. Thinking about OSXLion vs XP I would say that Lion has relatively higher hardware requirements than a soon 11 year old OS like XP. Which is why it must've burned your battery more slowly than Lion. Kudos to Apple anyway for being open and allowing users the choice of Windows.
You missed how the OP stated in his scenario that they want a MBA but want it to run Windows... something that already exists.
If you want a Spectre and want it to run Windows... then you get a Spectre. It's that simple.
That's common sense!
PS: No where in this blog did Kristian Vättö state it was an IPS display. If you have other info to back up that claim it would be kind of you to post it.
PPS: IPS on a notebook under $1500 as standard indicates a shift toward IPS on mid-range notebooks as standard, finally.
The Verge, Joanna Stern. To be fair she did not mention specifically IPS but she did mention Radiance™ display. Radiance displays on the non-ultrabook Envy are IPS. And this one looks better than the 400nit matte one from the Series9(that is formidable in itself). I think only a thorough review might specify what I incline to believe.
The original poster was like this; for someone that wants Windows and wants the Air as in MBA class(thin, light, small). The MBA is not the only choice. Plus you have to pony up another sum for Windows. And in some European countries where Apple does not have official presence its wares are already 100-150 euros extra(reseller tax); that is sans AppleCare mind you. Ironically it makes Apple wares even more fashion statements that they already are.
But I read you, although you still are the same Apple fan, your reply was spot on. I retract the final part of my statement that was suggesting a bullheaded pov which was not the case.
Remember that you need to buy Windows for MacBook Air, that's included in Spectre (though only if you need Windows in MBA but that was your point). That's $190 from NewEgg (legally, OEM versions are only for system builders but most people, including me, don't care, which drops the Windows license to $100).
I wouldn't expect Thunderbolt on a machine to be released next month but it's good to see mDP. Does anything still think the mDP port interface will not be the future of external computer displays?
Of course it is not the future of anything. It is not DVI/HDMI. All my monitors and TVs use DVI/HDMI, so that is the only thing I'll use.
If I am given a choice, I'll never buy into a thing that was only meant to add market separation and complicate things without any benefit whatsoever. Like, for example, DP.
DVI was relevant... what, 3 years ago? Slots get phased out all the time. Obviously if you're not in the market for new equipment then new slots don't matter to you.
Right now Thunderbolt can be used as a display, data, and adapter slot. The question is why isn't it available for Windows computers...? If it was available for Windows machine you know people would use it.
PS I don't like mDP either. That, or use mini everything instead of full size USB/HDMI/etc. Specs-wise they're just the same.
Why ? Because Apple had exclusivity on TB until 2012. Exactly 1 year of exclusivity. Now that Apple got its marketing worth out of the wonder port Intel will push it across its nonApple chipsets.
Mini DP is the future. It's simply a matter of cost (license free/royalty free) and it supports the highest resolutions, features, and bandwidths needed for 120Hz displays as well as 3D.
HDMI can also do that, but with higher cost and only on the newest chipsets. DVI is already too limited.
And it's not a big deal either way, since they are easily adapted if required.
I'll admit, HDMI's ability to carry audio is an advantage, but some laptops also do that over mDP (not sure if that's a standard).
IMO, HDMI is for TVs and low-end displays (since there are no +1080p displays with HDMI AFAIK). (m)DP is for high-end and professional displays where high resolutions are needed.
Having license fees may help as it allows the creators to push the interface more. For example, they could have paid for the early adopter to use it, and now they are getting their money back. DisplayPort doesn't have any fees so they most likely have less financial potential to push it, hence it's been in the shadows for quite a while.
Maybe Thunderbolt will boost the adaption of DP, who knows.
The MBP also uses a glass covered trackpad. I'm really not sure why covering the palm rest is any better. It's already aluminum. I guess it might withstand scratches better.
I'm actually stunned at how easy it is to dent or deform aluminum laptops. The aluminum used to make my nano and my mbp both feel downright flimsy (and bend to suit - personally, accidently, tested).
On the other hand, my girlfriends Droid with gorilla glass front has been dropped face first onto concrete, sometimes while she was running with it, and it has nary a scratch (side note, we know a couple who are collectively on their 4th/5th iphones - shattered glass syndrome). Also, my old Dell and Compal have been pummeled repeatedly over the course of their lives, but the hard plastic shells are just fine.
Then again aluminum looks sexy, and unibody has a monochromatic wholeness feeling to it that just rocks. Even the texture on the aluminum of my mba is awesome. Too bad it's pot metal.
I find it funny everyone blasts Apple for 'obscene profits' on their MBA's, whilst no one yet has released an ultrabook that matches the MBA in weight, screen quality, trackpad quality, and backlit keyboard and sells it for less...
Being a life long PC user, with PC laptop / desktop at home but a mbp at work, I'm stunned at high quality and effortless niceness of the IO on macs: keyboard, mouse, screen. It's also certainly a neat package to boot. That said, the rest of it in my mind is pretty much just a computer.
You've obviously never bought anything like this thats actual quality. You get what you pay for.
This also has a Radiance display, so if it's like other Radiance displays on HP laptops it should use an IPS panel. MUCH better than any MacBook or Air that use cheap TN panels and one of the very few laptops to actually have a good screen.
Looks quite nice, but I don't quite understand the reason for all the glass and this:
"The bundled software is worth over $200, but it's always a risky move to include shareware software as the end-user may not use it at all but still pays for it."
Ugh! Remove all that extra crap and sell it to me $200 cheaper.
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Taft12 - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
"If you're wondering how is this still an Ultrabook, Intel requires +14" laptops to be thinner than 21mm, which translates to 0.83" - there is no weight limit. For sub-14" laptops, the height limit is 18mm (0.71")."Ugh, and here I thought it was difficult to tell the difference between a netbook and a "subcompact laptop".
It's all moot since Ultrabooks are a market failure before they've even been released. I hope this costs Intel and any OEM that buys into the Ultrabook scam a fortune.
solipsism - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Netbooks came into being because of Atom CPUs even though that isn't a static definition. I think Intel has very specific requirements for their Ultrabooks, including the CPU.name99 - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Uhhh --- what are you so worked up about?(a) People buy computers based on a gestalt of price, appearance, performance, etc. Intel tried to nudge its vendors towards some higher priced, better looking, reasonably performing designs rather than the (netbook: cheap, too small to be useful, horrible performance) and (laptop: cheap, huge, OK performance) models they were shipping.
The issue is not the legalities of exactly what the Intel specs are and what the penalties are if they're missed; it is that Intel achieved its goal. This time last year there were very few reasonable MBA competitors, now there are a lot.
(b) You claim the market for Ultrabooks is a failure. Based on what? The MBA market is certainly anything BUT a failure; and most of these competitors came out so recently that we have no idea how they're selling. Many of the first round of MBA competitors have been underwhelming (somewhat like the 1st gen MBA itself), but not all of them. I think an honest person would admit they have NO IDEA how this will play out --- both for the category as a whole, and for which vendors in the category.
You seem to suffer from the sort of extreme narcissism that is all too common on technical blogs: "This device is not right for me, therefore it is a curse upon the world, anyone who buys it is an idiot who should be shunned, and it will fail horribly".
Grow up.
JNo - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Hear hear.Furthermore Taft12 you miss the point that Intel has track record in this game - it's very arguable that they greatly accelerated the uptake of wireless capable laptops with the centrino brand and specification.
Yes, I too see it all as a cynical marketing ploy but if it helps bring upon a standard that I would find use of, then I'm not totally against it either. I personally think it likely that the ultrabook category will become a success. Which is good because their imminent abundance might actually make it possible for me to afford one one day :)
Wolfpup - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Seems like a great Macbook Air competitor I'd totally recommend for someone who wants Windows and actually WANTS an Air...but just like the Air, I can't help but go "umm...I can get way better hardware for the same price or less".solipsism - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
If they want a MBA and want Windows then the MBA is the way to go.ananduser - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Why not this one ? The 13" MBA goes as high as 1600$, the entry level Spectre is 1400$ and comes standard with an IPS based Radiance display that is better in every way.If you want Windows you have a brilliant lower end choice in Folio or Dell's recently unveiled ultrabook or for premium the Spectre or the recently revamped Series9 from Sammy that even goes to 15"(a first for an ultrabook).
Oh and the bootcamp drivers for Windows are legacy IDE which severely impact the system's IOPS.
The fact is that you're a pretty staunch Apple supported and thus cannot see further than your preferences or personal experience.
moltentofu - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
"If they want a MBA and want Windows" pretty much covers it, I think, ananduser. Passionate defence though - also the newly unveiled version of the Series9 looks amazing.Also, you're being super aggressive. What exactly is your use case where legacy IDE is the critical performance bottleneck in a 13in laptop that comes standard with an under-sized 5400 rpm hard drive?
Anecdote: I bootcamp Win XP on my 13 in MBP, and weirdly I'll grant you, I actually got better performance for my battery time on my last flight with XP than OS X. OS X ate through 25% of my batter in about 30 minutes, and after I switched to XP I was fine for the rest of the 5 hour flight (same typing, light browsing the whole time).
Now if only they'd release drivers to support advanced multi-touch in XP...
ananduser - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
*I* am passionate ? I am all for common sense, the mac fanbase is the one over the top. My pseudo-issue is this; how can you say that the MBA is the only ultrabook choice for windows when you have brilliant options both premium and value thoroughly reviewed on all tech blogs.I am not aggressive mind you, I speak the truth. Bootcamp drivers are there to help you run Windows for the odd Win app, and not to provide the optimal experience. I would imagine that the IOPS hit is more observable on synthetic benchmarks.
I am happy for your MBP and I hope it lasts you forever. Thinking about OSXLion vs XP I would say that Lion has relatively higher hardware requirements than a soon 11 year old OS like XP. Which is why it must've burned your battery more slowly than Lion. Kudos to Apple anyway for being open and allowing users the choice of Windows.
solipsism - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
You missed how the OP stated in his scenario that they want a MBA but want it to run Windows... something that already exists.If you want a Spectre and want it to run Windows... then you get a Spectre. It's that simple.
That's common sense!
PS: No where in this blog did Kristian Vättö state it was an IPS display. If you have other info to back up that claim it would be kind of you to post it.
PPS: IPS on a notebook under $1500 as standard indicates a shift toward IPS on mid-range notebooks as standard, finally.
ananduser - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - link
The Verge, Joanna Stern. To be fair she did not mention specifically IPS but she did mention Radiance™ display. Radiance displays on the non-ultrabook Envy are IPS. And this one looks better than the 400nit matte one from the Series9(that is formidable in itself). I think only a thorough review might specify what I incline to believe.The original poster was like this; for someone that wants Windows and wants the Air as in MBA class(thin, light, small). The MBA is not the only choice. Plus you have to pony up another sum for Windows. And in some European countries where Apple does not have official presence its wares are already 100-150 euros extra(reseller tax); that is sans AppleCare mind you. Ironically it makes Apple wares even more fashion statements that they already are.
But I read you, although you still are the same Apple fan, your reply was spot on. I retract the final part of my statement that was suggesting a bullheaded pov which was not the case.
Kristian Vättö - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - link
Remember that you need to buy Windows for MacBook Air, that's included in Spectre (though only if you need Windows in MBA but that was your point). That's $190 from NewEgg (legally, OEM versions are only for system builders but most people, including me, don't care, which drops the Windows license to $100).moltentofu - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Laptops seem like a great competitor to desktops, but I can get way better hardware for the same price or less.solipsism - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
I wouldn't expect Thunderbolt on a machine to be released next month but it's good to see mDP. Does anything still think the mDP port interface will not be the future of external computer displays?Visual - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Of course it is not the future of anything. It is not DVI/HDMI. All my monitors and TVs use DVI/HDMI, so that is the only thing I'll use.If I am given a choice, I'll never buy into a thing that was only meant to add market separation and complicate things without any benefit whatsoever. Like, for example, DP.
chillmelt - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
DVI was relevant... what, 3 years ago? Slots get phased out all the time. Obviously if you're not in the market for new equipment then new slots don't matter to you.Right now Thunderbolt can be used as a display, data, and adapter slot. The question is why isn't it available for Windows computers...? If it was available for Windows machine you know people would use it.
PS I don't like mDP either. That, or use mini everything instead of full size USB/HDMI/etc. Specs-wise they're just the same.
ananduser - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Why ? Because Apple had exclusivity on TB until 2012. Exactly 1 year of exclusivity. Now that Apple got its marketing worth out of the wonder port Intel will push it across its nonApple chipsets.hechacker1 - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Mini DP is the future. It's simply a matter of cost (license free/royalty free) and it supports the highest resolutions, features, and bandwidths needed for 120Hz displays as well as 3D.HDMI can also do that, but with higher cost and only on the newest chipsets. DVI is already too limited.
And it's not a big deal either way, since they are easily adapted if required.
I'll admit, HDMI's ability to carry audio is an advantage, but some laptops also do that over mDP (not sure if that's a standard).
Kristian Vättö - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - link
IMO, HDMI is for TVs and low-end displays (since there are no +1080p displays with HDMI AFAIK). (m)DP is for high-end and professional displays where high resolutions are needed.Having license fees may help as it allows the creators to push the interface more. For example, they could have paid for the early adopter to use it, and now they are getting their money back. DisplayPort doesn't have any fees so they most likely have less financial potential to push it, hence it's been in the shadows for quite a while.
Maybe Thunderbolt will boost the adaption of DP, who knows.
ananduser - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - link
4 cents a device isn't such a huge cost mind you for a standard that is supported by a pretty numerous body. It is worse than free but not much worse.Belard - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Somehow I don't think this is as tough as a Thinkpad or MacBook pro.But it's pretty... Looks like a Sony.
Shadowmage - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
You don't think it's as tough as a Macbook Pro, another laptop with a sheet of glass covering its screen?ananduser - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
This one has a sheet of Gorilla glass covering the lid not the screen and the palm rest.hechacker1 - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
The MBP also uses a glass covered trackpad. I'm really not sure why covering the palm rest is any better. It's already aluminum. I guess it might withstand scratches better.ananduser - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
This has in addition a glass covered lid, as in the entire lid. That was my point.moltentofu - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
I'm actually stunned at how easy it is to dent or deform aluminum laptops. The aluminum used to make my nano and my mbp both feel downright flimsy (and bend to suit - personally, accidently, tested).On the other hand, my girlfriends Droid with gorilla glass front has been dropped face first onto concrete, sometimes while she was running with it, and it has nary a scratch (side note, we know a couple who are collectively on their 4th/5th iphones - shattered glass syndrome). Also, my old Dell and Compal have been pummeled repeatedly over the course of their lives, but the hard plastic shells are just fine.
Then again aluminum looks sexy, and unibody has a monochromatic wholeness feeling to it that just rocks. Even the texture on the aluminum of my mba is awesome. Too bad it's pot metal.
B3an - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - link
... You just put a cheap flimsy and dent prone MacBook Pro in the same category for built quality as a Thinkpad? i LOL'd.Pneumothorax - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
I find it funny everyone blasts Apple for 'obscene profits' on their MBA's, whilst no one yet has released an ultrabook that matches the MBA in weight, screen quality, trackpad quality, and backlit keyboard and sells it for less...moltentofu - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Being a life long PC user, with PC laptop / desktop at home but a mbp at work, I'm stunned at high quality and effortless niceness of the IO on macs: keyboard, mouse, screen. It's also certainly a neat package to boot. That said, the rest of it in my mind is pretty much just a computer.fynamo - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
... this is ridiculous. They are freaking laptops people. Screw all this "ultrabook," "netbook" blah blah blah chatter. Geez.For this device in particular:
- Price is too high
- Weight is too much
- Looks like a Mac (what doesn't these days??)
Essentially you're paying a premium for the high-rez screen, which you can get elsewhere in better notebooks.
No innovation here. Move along.
B3an - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - link
You've obviously never bought anything like this thats actual quality. You get what you pay for.This also has a Radiance display, so if it's like other Radiance displays on HP laptops it should use an IPS panel. MUCH better than any MacBook or Air that use cheap TN panels and one of the very few laptops to actually have a good screen.
jramskov - Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - link
Looks quite nice, but I don't quite understand the reason for all the glass and this:"The bundled software is worth over $200, but it's always a risky move to include shareware software as the end-user may not use it at all but still pays for it."
Ugh! Remove all that extra crap and sell it to me $200 cheaper.