"RIM definitely has a lot of the right pieces in-house (QNX, webkit team, etc...) to make for a serious revival in the mobile market, but ultimately it boils down to execution and iteration"
More competition pushes the others to release things faster and cheaper so we all win... I just dont have alot of confidence in RIM's ability to execute. Lately they have been all thumbs.
Their backs are truly against the wall. We'll see what these guys are made of now. They're in a very narrow critical window where the only possible outcomes are an Apple-like rejuvenation or a Sun-like slide to irrelevance and sale of what's left over.
That's because you never used their newest hardware like me. Anyone who uses it can easily see through your "I WILL BET MY LIFE ON RIM FAILING NEXT YEAR BY OCTOBER" bullshit.
Actually, it's because people like retrospooty, I, and everyone else on Android or iOS, that fails to use their hardware that they are likely to collapse.
Though I wouldn't peg it at 10/2013, I would say 10/2015.
Their OS is about 2 years behind and their HW is about 1 year behind the state of the art right now.
QNX is not behind iOS or Android, it's light years AHEAD OF THEM architecture-wise and user interface-wise. They just need more apps to succeed and they know this - look at native SDK they released today, look at Cascades and all their github repos - nice sweet stuff for anyone willing to dabble into apsp development for QNX running on the most elegant tablet hardware on Earth hehe :P
By the way you don't need the state of the art hardware to succeed, did you know that a HUGE amoutn of people buys NOT the fastest cars, NOT the most expensive largest smartphones, NOT the biggest flashiest watch, NOT the most expensive fridges or dishwashers or computers? Did you know HUGE amount of people buys stuff that's middle end, not the slowest, but not the most high end/luxury models. Exactly like BlackBerry 7 phones these days.
You don't need either the best HW or the best OS to survive, yes. But you DO need some sort of sense of what the market wants. The Playbook and all its flaws (eg the ridiculous mail story) demonstrated a remarkable tone-deafness on RIM's part to what the market wants. This tone-deafness is not fixed by having a fancy new OS.
Moreover, at the technical level, Apple have just moved the ball again with Siri. I have no doubt that Google and MS can, in a year or so, field at least credible competitors in that space --- acceptable voice recognition coupled to AI --- but I have rather less confidence that RIM can do so.
Apple has no sense of 'what the market wants'. It tells the marked - or a for them large enough chunk of it - what it wants. Mr. Pirks has a point : the high end slot has been taken up by the Dead Man from Cupertino. Makes no sense trying to dislodge him from that spot. What they need is 'stuff that works' at an attractive price with a taste of the high end. But what do I know
I've been developing on QNX since 1987 and it's probably the best OS for portable devices ever built. What RIM does with it and if they can get customers is the question.
I've always liked the Blackberry and would rather have one than an iPhone or an Android based unit for business use. My wife's Samsung Galaxy S just lunched itself after three weeks. I've seen a Blackberry work for years.
I'm not sure if RIM should stay in the tablet market. I have no use for one and don't like any of them for several reasons. I prefer my Acer 11.4 inch laptop that fits in my briefcase sideways and is a full PC.
"Though I wouldn't peg it at 10/2013, I would say 10/2015."
Actually that isnt at all what I said. Pirks like to dramatize and then go off on a rant based on his dramatization. What I actually said was "By October next year, there won’t be any way for RIM to hide behind creative data reporting and "pick and choose" facts. RIM’s numbers will be down all over, sales, marketshare, everything everywhere and it will be undeniable."
I still think this to be true. QNX may well be decent. It has apparently borrowed its UI and multitasking from WebOS which I liked alot, best in the industry to me... But, there are 3 things to think about. 1. Its not out on any phones yet and for all we know may be delayed. 2. From everythign out there doesnt work well with BES, which is RIM's only other revenue aside from phones, and 3. RIM tends to screw up everything they touch lately. They arent executing well and they arent appearing to be aware of what customers and consumers want.
RIM does not screw up things lately, rather the opposite, you ignorant troll. I use two of their newest devices, a phone and a tablet and both are very high quality pieces of tech, mostly a pure pleasure to use, especially the tablet. The only thing screwed up here is your dead brain. I have experience with new RIM products and you don't, hence the only thing you can do is to parrot other trolls like you who also have no idea what products RIM makes these days. Go on, follow the sheeple crowd, bash RIM, buy yourself an iPhone, black turtleneck and a pair of jeans, whatever. For trolls like you who have none of their own mind and only follow the sheeple crowd this is the only way of life. Hive mind prevails because you have no mind of your own. You're just follow the sheeple. So sad :)
I never follow the sheeple, I always test the stuff I gonna buy and then make a choice. You look at some Apple dick sucking "reviewer" and think that his review is the final truth, but I never do this. I don't trust the reviews most of the time (Anand is the only exception that proves the rule), I go and use stuff myself. Then I pwn the liars and trolls based on my own experience. It's that simple.
It's usually very easy to pwn them because they never know what they are talking about. They just saw some pictures with some RIM device and the picture caption said BAD BAD BAD DEVICE, so naturally their hive mind tells me the picture must be true! It's from a "reviewer", right? And then the DT forum fun begins, as usual :)
Did it ever occur to you that not everyone likes or wants a BlackBerry for whatever reason? It's something called choice. For someone who just went off on an insulting rant you sure do come across as a sheep herder trying to push everyone into the BlackBerry pen. For my needs an iPhone or an Android device is a much better fit period.You don't see me going around bashing everyone who does not want either.
"For someone who just went off on an insulting rant you sure do come across as a sheep herder trying to push everyone into the BlackBerry pen"
I know, its hilarious the double standard. I also love how he insists that anyone that posts bad news, including staff at AT/DT is a troll (spoken from underneath his bridge). LOL
Anyhow Pirks... I have played with a co-workers OS7 as I set him up with mobile mail (minus cal and contact sync becasue its a RIM device and doesnt support EAS), not at all impressed. I also spent 10 mins in a store on the playbook... Like I said, QNX looks decent, its a comparable OS, but have you seen this Ice Cream sammy article? Another nail in the coffin I'm afraid. It looks awesome.
Yeah of course it does look awesome after they stole lotsa features from BlackBerry, WinPhone 7 and iOS. Whatever, I'm not interested in copycats, RIM and MS mobile platforms at least look original and interesting, Android ripoff - not at all yet.
RIM usually introduces interesting stuff first, like BBM and Blackberry Tag, then others copy it (Apple iMessage and Android Beam)
You're interested in copycats, not in innovators? Lemme guess why - because "everyone" says copycats are cool? Okay Mr. Hive Mind, whatever you say LOL :)))
Oh great, now you're trying to refute the inconvenient for you facts that Android Beam is a Blackberry Tag ripoff, and iMesaage is a BBM ripoff. Your denial of reality is funny.
"Android Beam is a Blackberry Tag ripoff, and iMesaage is a BBM ripoff."
OMG you're too funny. I am not denying that, its just that of all the great things we can do now with modern smartphones, Beam, Tag, iMesaage and BBM are all just lame little tidbits. If you want to call that Innovation on RIM's behalf then I just laugh it off. Calling BBM and TAG smartphone innovations is alot like calling mud-flaps and cup-holders Automotive innovations.
Now, if you want to call copycat, call it on RIM, becasue thier whole platform is a total copy of Palm/Handspring. The only thing RIM invented was thier BES/mail system, their whole platform is a copy. If you want to stay away from copy's, then you cant use an iphone, android, blackberry or any other smartphone because the inventor is Palm.
You cant be that thickheaded... You said "it does look awesome after they stole lotsa features from BlackBerry, WinPhone 7 and iOS. Whatever, I'm not interested in copycats, RIM and MS mobile platforms at least look original and interesting, Android ripoff - not at all yet.
RIM usually introduces interesting stuff first, like BBM and Blackberry Tag, then others copy it "
Well, RIM's whole business is a copy of Palm, remeber, the Treo, the first smartphone? The one that all others copied. Every iPhone, android , RIM, and all others are copies in many ways to Palm. They also all have innovations. including Google and RIM. Its an evolving business and they all copy and add thier own stuff. RIM is no different, only that they are slower to innovate these days.
bah, everyone is then a copycat according to you. still at least MS and RIM get something fresh out the door, while Google is copying others, I mean out of all three vendors Google is the most thiefy one, not RIM. 'cause RIM never blatantly stole from iOS like Google did, so it's all relative you know
I have decided to stop the arguing with this post. I myself like android at the moment, but am interested what RIM will do with QNX, which looks like the best kernel at the moment (being a microkernel means you can kill any process not in use because they are all in userspace).
Talk about sheep: Android is the only open source project at the moment, so Apple and RIM costumers could be considered sheep because they follow these companies. Same could also be said of anyone, so that argument is pointless.
Android is my prefered platform, because it is fast growing, open source, and since hardware manufacturers don't have to pay to use it there is a lot of choice when buying a decently priced phone.
And for my final point: Everybody copies everybody, because otherwise they cannot satisfy costumers who want certain features.
Interesting. I forgot about that. The phone version 2.3 is still open though. I wonder what they will decide for Ice Cream Sandwich, since it will be used on both the phones and tablets
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retrospooty - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
"RIM definitely has a lot of the right pieces in-house (QNX, webkit team, etc...) to make for a serious revival in the mobile market, but ultimately it boils down to execution and iteration"More competition pushes the others to release things faster and cheaper so we all win... I just dont have alot of confidence in RIM's ability to execute. Lately they have been all thumbs.
Taft12 - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
Their backs are truly against the wall. We'll see what these guys are made of now. They're in a very narrow critical window where the only possible outcomes are an Apple-like rejuvenation or a Sun-like slide to irrelevance and sale of what's left over.retrospooty - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
They smell alot like Palm to me.Pirks - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
That's because you never used their newest hardware like me. Anyone who uses it can easily see through your "I WILL BET MY LIFE ON RIM FAILING NEXT YEAR BY OCTOBER" bullshit.It's that simple, really.
michael2k - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
Actually, it's because people like retrospooty, I, and everyone else on Android or iOS, that fails to use their hardware that they are likely to collapse.Though I wouldn't peg it at 10/2013, I would say 10/2015.
Their OS is about 2 years behind and their HW is about 1 year behind the state of the art right now.
Pirks - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
QNX is not behind iOS or Android, it's light years AHEAD OF THEM architecture-wise and user interface-wise. They just need more apps to succeed and they know this - look at native SDK they released today, look at Cascades and all their github repos - nice sweet stuff for anyone willing to dabble into apsp development for QNX running on the most elegant tablet hardware on Earth hehe :PBy the way you don't need the state of the art hardware to succeed, did you know that a HUGE amoutn of people buys NOT the fastest cars, NOT the most expensive largest smartphones, NOT the biggest flashiest watch, NOT the most expensive fridges or dishwashers or computers? Did you know HUGE amount of people buys stuff that's middle end, not the slowest, but not the most high end/luxury models. Exactly like BlackBerry 7 phones these days.
name99 - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
You don't need either the best HW or the best OS to survive, yes. But you DO need some sort of sense of what the market wants.The Playbook and all its flaws (eg the ridiculous mail story) demonstrated a remarkable tone-deafness on RIM's part to what the market wants. This tone-deafness is not fixed by having a fancy new OS.
Moreover, at the technical level, Apple have just moved the ball again with Siri. I have no doubt that Google and MS can, in a year or so, field at least credible competitors in that space --- acceptable voice recognition coupled to AI --- but I have rather less confidence that RIM can do so.
Landiepete - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
Apple has no sense of 'what the market wants'. It tells the marked - or a for them large enough chunk of it - what it wants.Mr. Pirks has a point : the high end slot has been taken up by the Dead Man from Cupertino. Makes no sense trying to dislodge him from that spot. What they need is 'stuff that works' at an attractive price with a taste of the high end. But what do I know
twburger - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
I've been developing on QNX since 1987 and it's probably the best OS for portable devices ever built. What RIM does with it and if they can get customers is the question.I've always liked the Blackberry and would rather have one than an iPhone or an Android based unit for business use. My wife's Samsung Galaxy S just lunched itself after three weeks. I've seen a Blackberry work for years.
I'm not sure if RIM should stay in the tablet market. I have no use for one and don't like any of them for several reasons. I prefer my Acer 11.4 inch laptop that fits in my briefcase sideways and is a full PC.
retrospooty - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link
"Though I wouldn't peg it at 10/2013, I would say 10/2015."Actually that isnt at all what I said. Pirks like to dramatize and then go off on a rant based on his dramatization. What I actually said was "By October next year, there won’t be any way for RIM to hide behind creative data reporting and "pick and choose" facts. RIM’s numbers will be down all over, sales, marketshare, everything everywhere and it will be undeniable."
I still think this to be true. QNX may well be decent. It has apparently borrowed its UI and multitasking from WebOS which I liked alot, best in the industry to me... But, there are 3 things to think about. 1. Its not out on any phones yet and for all we know may be delayed. 2. From everythign out there doesnt work well with BES, which is RIM's only other revenue aside from phones, and 3. RIM tends to screw up everything they touch lately. They arent executing well and they arent appearing to be aware of what customers and consumers want.
Pirks - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
RIM does not screw up things lately, rather the opposite, you ignorant troll. I use two of their newest devices, a phone and a tablet and both are very high quality pieces of tech, mostly a pure pleasure to use, especially the tablet. The only thing screwed up here is your dead brain. I have experience with new RIM products and you don't, hence the only thing you can do is to parrot other trolls like you who also have no idea what products RIM makes these days. Go on, follow the sheeple crowd, bash RIM, buy yourself an iPhone, black turtleneck and a pair of jeans, whatever. For trolls like you who have none of their own mind and only follow the sheeple crowd this is the only way of life. Hive mind prevails because you have no mind of your own. You're just follow the sheeple. So sad :)I never follow the sheeple, I always test the stuff I gonna buy and then make a choice. You look at some Apple dick sucking "reviewer" and think that his review is the final truth, but I never do this. I don't trust the reviews most of the time (Anand is the only exception that proves the rule), I go and use stuff myself. Then I pwn the liars and trolls based on my own experience. It's that simple.
It's usually very easy to pwn them because they never know what they are talking about. They just saw some pictures with some RIM device and the picture caption said BAD BAD BAD DEVICE, so naturally their hive mind tells me the picture must be true! It's from a "reviewer", right? And then the DT forum fun begins, as usual :)
Veroxious - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
Did it ever occur to you that not everyone likes or wants a BlackBerry for whatever reason? It's something called choice. For someone who just went off on an insulting rant you sure do come across as a sheep herder trying to push everyone into the BlackBerry pen. For my needs an iPhone or an Android device is a much better fit period.You don't see me going around bashing everyone who does not want either.retrospooty - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
"For someone who just went off on an insulting rant you sure do come across as a sheep herder trying to push everyone into the BlackBerry pen"I know, its hilarious the double standard. I also love how he insists that anyone that posts bad news, including staff at AT/DT is a troll (spoken from underneath his bridge). LOL
Anyhow Pirks... I have played with a co-workers OS7 as I set him up with mobile mail (minus cal and contact sync becasue its a RIM device and doesnt support EAS), not at all impressed. I also spent 10 mins in a store on the playbook... Like I said, QNX looks decent, its a comparable OS, but have you seen this Ice Cream sammy article? Another nail in the coffin I'm afraid. It looks awesome.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4987/google-introduc...
Pirks - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
Yeah of course it does look awesome after they stole lotsa features from BlackBerry, WinPhone 7 and iOS. Whatever, I'm not interested in copycats, RIM and MS mobile platforms at least look original and interesting, Android ripoff - not at all yet.RIM usually introduces interesting stuff first, like BBM and Blackberry Tag, then others copy it (Apple iMessage and Android Beam)
You're interested in copycats, not in innovators? Lemme guess why - because "everyone" says copycats are cool? Okay Mr. Hive Mind, whatever you say LOL :)))
retrospooty - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
You are delusional. Dont go changin.Pirks - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
Oh great, now you're trying to refute the inconvenient for you facts that Android Beam is a Blackberry Tag ripoff, and iMesaage is a BBM ripoff. Your denial of reality is funny.piiman - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
dude NO ONE reinvents the wheel. Take a good look and your fav RIM OS and I'm sure we can find some "rip offs" in it also.If RIM was so innovative and magical they would be Apple ..Obviously they are not.
Pirks - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
MS is no Apple too, which doesn't make it non-innovative. Same's true for RIM.retrospooty - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
"Android Beam is a Blackberry Tag ripoff, and iMesaage is a BBM ripoff."OMG you're too funny. I am not denying that, its just that of all the great things we can do now with modern smartphones, Beam, Tag, iMesaage and BBM are all just lame little tidbits. If you want to call that Innovation on RIM's behalf then I just laugh it off. Calling BBM and TAG smartphone innovations is alot like calling mud-flaps and cup-holders Automotive innovations.
Now, if you want to call copycat, call it on RIM, becasue thier whole platform is a total copy of Palm/Handspring. The only thing RIM invented was thier BES/mail system, their whole platform is a copy. If you want to stay away from copy's, then you cant use an iphone, android, blackberry or any other smartphone because the inventor is Palm.
Pirks - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
Wait a second, where and how did QNX copy Palm? Tell me that, I think you're lying again here but I'm giving you a chance to prove it. Go on.retrospooty - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
You cant be that thickheaded... You said "it does look awesome after they stole lotsa features from BlackBerry, WinPhone 7 and iOS. Whatever, I'm not interested in copycats, RIM and MS mobile platforms at least look original and interesting, Android ripoff - not at all yet.RIM usually introduces interesting stuff first, like BBM and Blackberry Tag, then others copy it "
Well, RIM's whole business is a copy of Palm, remeber, the Treo, the first smartphone? The one that all others copied. Every iPhone, android , RIM, and all others are copies in many ways to Palm. They also all have innovations. including Google and RIM. Its an evolving business and they all copy and add thier own stuff. RIM is no different, only that they are slower to innovate these days.
Pirks - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
bah, everyone is then a copycat according to you. still at least MS and RIM get something fresh out the door, while Google is copying others, I mean out of all three vendors Google is the most thiefy one, not RIM. 'cause RIM never blatantly stole from iOS like Google did, so it's all relative you knowSleepyFE - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
I have decided to stop the arguing with this post.I myself like android at the moment, but am interested what RIM will do with QNX, which looks like the best kernel at the moment (being a microkernel means you can kill any process not in use because they are all in userspace).
Talk about sheep: Android is the only open source project at the moment, so Apple and RIM costumers could be considered sheep because they follow these companies.
Same could also be said of anyone, so that argument is pointless.
Android is my prefered platform, because it is fast growing, open source, and since hardware manufacturers don't have to pay to use it there is a lot of choice when buying a decently priced phone.
And for my final point: Everybody copies everybody, because otherwise they cannot satisfy costumers who want certain features.
Pirks - Wednesday, October 19, 2011 - link
Please stop lying about Android being open source and read http://www.zdnet.com/blog/google/google-android-30...After reading this you should understand why Android users are, in fact, the same sheep as Apple and RIM users.
SleepyFE - Thursday, October 20, 2011 - link
Interesting. I forgot about that. The phone version 2.3 is still open though.I wonder what they will decide for Ice Cream Sandwich, since it will be used on both the phones and tablets
SleepyFE - Thursday, October 20, 2011 - link
Yay, i am no longer lying.http://www.anandtech.com/show/4999/google-to-relea...
Pirks - Thursday, October 20, 2011 - link
lucky bastard