For those who haven't been paying close attention, AMD has been laying the ground work for waves of new CPUs across all X86 market segments over the next three years. While they were sorting out production issues with Bulldozer they were concurently developing the next several generations of CPUs to follow Bulldozer. Consumers are going to have all the CPU options they could possibly desire and more very soon.
What the hell are you smoking? Bad console port?? The game looked, controlled, and ran fantastic (at least on a Radeon 6970), and gave you all the settings you could want...
Why would that matter ? This was a hardware demo, not a game demo so it doesn't really matter what software they used for comparison (althrough admittedly I'd love to see more than a single title used). - what matters is that the notebook on the left was clearly stuttering all the time, making the game unplayable, nevermind the crappy visuals. The notebook on the right performed allright.
Saneblane, I think using an extremely demanding game, which falthers on hardware which was considered high-end only 6 months ago, seems to me the best way to demostrate the power of a budget APU.
Trinity looks like what Llano should have been. Hopefully Piledriver cores will match Intel cores, or at least come much closer than Llano did. Intel will also be upgrading their GPUs with Ivy Bridge, so there's a good amount of competition on both fronts. Personally though I'm not sure if I need a whole lot of GPU performance on my laptop, but then again I might not need all that much CPU either. It comes down to battery life and cost, and most of all AVAILABILITY. I'm afraid I've seen next to none Llano laptops here in Finland. I'm still waiting for that AMD version of 13" ultrabook that offer great GPU performance, great battery life and a decent price.
"I'm still waiting for that AMD version of 13" ultrabook that offer great GPU performance, great battery life and a decent price. "
The problem here in the U.S. is the "decent price" - at least as far as I am concerned. You can find i5 laptops for $500, but it seems the Llano laptops are around $650. At least as far as I have seen - not that I have been looking for Llano laptops that hard.
I said - "not that I have been looking for Llano laptops that hard. " - that isn't the same as not knowing what I am talking about. It means I haven't been looking that much for a Llano laptop since it didn't take long to figure out that I can get a MUCH faster Intel i5 laptop for cheaper than a MUCH slower AMD Llano.
Amd is too closed in it's announcements. Obviously it is not a new core, both Amd and Intel have not resources to develop two brand new cores in the same time frame, not a chance. Likely it will be a power optimized module good for laptops and consumer Pc's (not FX). I don't espect any gain in IPC but a lower power consumption, down to the 125W figure of FX line. I don't know what will be the advantage of a dual integer core cpu with only one fp unit......the lack of performance is pretty clear at the lower end of cpu line. Anyway every Company makes its own destine :).
Yes they have. Intel is developing Haswell along with future Atom architectures and Itanium as far as I've heard. Intel, at least, certainly has the money to throw at developing whatever it likes, plus let's remember it has a graphics division looking well beyond Ivy Bridge.
AMD is developing next-generation Bulldozer (Piledriver's successor) along with what would be Krishna's successor. It's worth pointing out that AMD's probably finished speccing out the 8000 series, just as NVIDIA will have with Kepler's successor.
Ummm :), Haswell is over two years after Sandy Bridge, Ivy has not a new core it's only a shrink, the IPC will be the same (caches enhancements apart). Anyway Xbit labs is saying about little tweaks, likely Amd is lowering the L3 latency and increasing memory controller efficence. The core (module) is fixed, the validation is too long for a new arc two quarters after BD shipment. A new arc needs 4/5 years and Amd does not possess two high performance cpu teams :). About GPUs.....the job is more more easy. A Cpu is an hard work of fine tuning in logic, layout, and process integration.
Haswell may be more than two years after Sandy Bridge, but you can bet that Intel has at least partly designed its follow-up already.
Piledriver's successor is due 2013. It will be a notable improvement on the Bulldozer line as you'd expect from AMD adopting an Intel-like tick-tock strategy.
If a new arch needs 4/5 years how does Intel have a new one every 2? Or how did AMD develop Bobcat, Bulldozer, and Llano simultaneously? Bulldozer tapped out a long time ago, just because it isn't on market yet doesn't mean they don't have working samples of a new core already.
One FP unit? Look it up again. It's two 128 bit that can combine into one 256 bit/AVX or 2 x 128 bit if only one thread needs FP. Now I don't know about the Intel side on FP, but that's it for AMD Bulldozer.
One module has two Integer units (with some things in common) and ONE fp unit 128b*2. Look at Amd slides. Intel has one 256b/AVX fp unit for every integer core. In short words a quad core Intel cpu has two times the fp resources of a similar Amd device (with four integer cores obviously). A Gulftown has six integer units and six fp uinits, Bulldozer has eight integer cores and four fp units. Amd is focusing on integer performance in multithread scenario.
It is also smart since AMD is heading down the path of the gpu being the fp engine for the cpu - I think two gens after Trinity (?). Then AMD fp will blow every cpu out of the water. Right now AMDs fp just has to be good enough. It is there integer that is sorely lacking which hopefully BD will correct.
I think revolutionary will be when the gpu is fully integrated into the cpu in such a way that the gpu is the fp engine of the cpu. Not sure which product this will be in but AMD has said it is coming.
Fusion is literally that, but it takes time to go from two separate items to a completely merged entity. A bit like going from two halves of a photo to a jigsaw to the complete photo, I suppose.
Would it be possible to summarize the contents of the video everytime one is posted. It could be included in the article as a caption or something. Not everyone watches the video; they might not be able nor have the inclination to do so.
I'm not placing any bets until I see thorough tests from Anandtech and Tomshardware on these CPUs.
I hope they blow Sandy Bridge and the Core series out of the water. I hope the on-die GPU technology allows for discreet cards to add some serious punch for those of us who have more than a 1920x1080 monitor and/or want to run more than 60 fps (or even 60 fps through an entire game at max settings). I have to admit though, I'm thinking a bit cynically these days, and am not really expecting more than an incremental increase in performance over what we have now.
I see the AMD guy mentioned the stuttering on the Intel system in that demonstration.
I wonder if the (very recent) patch to Deus Ex would fix that!
(From the patch notes): Fixes: - We have addressed various issues that can occur for players that would result in ‘stuttering’. o Stutters that are the result of graphics driver shader processing are now removed or significantly reduced. o Stutters that are the result of data streaming have been removed or significantly reduced. o Performance has been improved and made more stable on dual-core systems. This could previously also result in stuttering.
It is a bit curious. When AMD did the Llano vs. Sandy Bridge comparison, they had the good sense to include the specs and driver versions at the end of the video. Obviously, it can't be done in this case, but still, knowing how both platforms measure up would be helpful. It's almost as if AMD are saying "we're using alpha hardware and software, so regardless of a performance enhancing patch aiding the HD 3000, we're still going to mop the floor with it".
Has anyone tried playing the game on their i7 laptop using the integrated GPU? It would be interesting to know how it performs pre- and post-patch.
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Beenthere - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
For those who haven't been paying close attention, AMD has been laying the ground work for waves of new CPUs across all X86 market segments over the next three years. While they were sorting out production issues with Bulldozer they were concurently developing the next several generations of CPUs to follow Bulldozer. Consumers are going to have all the CPU options they could possibly desire and more very soon.saneblane - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
it wasn't a smart move using that game as a demonstration, one of the worst console ports that has ever been done.shiznit - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
How many bad console ports let you adjust FOV right there in the menu? I could name many high-profile games with much worse consolitis.LondonBurning - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
What the hell are you smoking? Bad console port?? The game looked, controlled, and ran fantastic (at least on a Radeon 6970), and gave you all the settings you could want...sjael - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
Gotta agree. Easily the best performing cross-platform game I've played on PC in years.Not to mention the fact the PC version was developed alongside the console one, by a totally different studio, so it's not really even a port.
smitty3268 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Maybe the OP was talking about the old 2nd game, Invisible War, instead of the recent 3rd one?B3an - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Maybe the OP is just a moron.Arnulf - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Why would that matter ? This was a hardware demo, not a game demo so it doesn't really matter what software they used for comparison (althrough admittedly I'd love to see more than a single title used). - what matters is that the notebook on the left was clearly stuttering all the time, making the game unplayable, nevermind the crappy visuals. The notebook on the right performed allright.yankeeDDL - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Saneblane,I think using an extremely demanding game, which falthers on hardware which was considered high-end only 6 months ago, seems to me the best way to demostrate the power of a budget APU.
shiznit - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
Macbook air running on Arm for daily tasks with switching to Trinity when plugged in.bupkus - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
Sounds more like a wet dream.enterco - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
I assume that the intended text was 'server market' instead of 'sever market' on the first line.Pantsu - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Trinity looks like what Llano should have been. Hopefully Piledriver cores will match Intel cores, or at least come much closer than Llano did. Intel will also be upgrading their GPUs with Ivy Bridge, so there's a good amount of competition on both fronts. Personally though I'm not sure if I need a whole lot of GPU performance on my laptop, but then again I might not need all that much CPU either. It comes down to battery life and cost, and most of all AVAILABILITY. I'm afraid I've seen next to none Llano laptops here in Finland. I'm still waiting for that AMD version of 13" ultrabook that offer great GPU performance, great battery life and a decent price.fic2 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
"I'm still waiting for that AMD version of 13" ultrabook that offer great GPU performance, great battery life and a decent price. "The problem here in the U.S. is the "decent price" - at least as far as I am concerned. You can find i5 laptops for $500, but it seems the Llano laptops are around $650. At least as far as I have seen - not that I have been looking for Llano laptops that hard.
Iketh - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Why did you bother to make this post when you admit yourself you don't know what you're talking about?fic2 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
I said - "not that I have been looking for Llano laptops that hard. " - that isn't the same as not knowing what I am talking about. It means I haven't been looking that much for a Llano laptop since it didn't take long to figure out that I can get a MUCH faster Intel i5 laptop for cheaper than a MUCH slower AMD Llano.Why did you make your useless post?
Gondalf - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Amd is too closed in it's announcements. Obviously it is not a new core, both Amd and Intel have not resources to develop two brand new cores in the same time frame, not a chance. Likely it will be a power optimized module good for laptops and consumer Pc's (not FX). I don't espect any gain in IPC but a lower power consumption, down to the 125W figure of FX line.I don't know what will be the advantage of a dual integer core cpu with only one fp unit......the lack of performance is pretty clear at the lower end of cpu line.
Anyway every Company makes its own destine :).
silverblue - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Yes they have. Intel is developing Haswell along with future Atom architectures and Itanium as far as I've heard. Intel, at least, certainly has the money to throw at developing whatever it likes, plus let's remember it has a graphics division looking well beyond Ivy Bridge.AMD is developing next-generation Bulldozer (Piledriver's successor) along with what would be Krishna's successor. It's worth pointing out that AMD's probably finished speccing out the 8000 series, just as NVIDIA will have with Kepler's successor.
Gondalf - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Ummm :), Haswell is over two years after Sandy Bridge, Ivy has not a new core it's only a shrink, the IPC will be the same (caches enhancements apart).Anyway Xbit labs is saying about little tweaks, likely Amd is lowering the L3 latency and increasing memory controller efficence.
The core (module) is fixed, the validation is too long for a new arc two quarters after BD shipment. A new arc needs 4/5 years and Amd does not possess two high performance cpu teams :).
About GPUs.....the job is more more easy. A Cpu is an hard work of fine tuning
in logic, layout, and process integration.
silverblue - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Haswell may be more than two years after Sandy Bridge, but you can bet that Intel has at least partly designed its follow-up already.Piledriver's successor is due 2013. It will be a notable improvement on the Bulldozer line as you'd expect from AMD adopting an Intel-like tick-tock strategy.
LoneNinja - Friday, September 16, 2011 - link
If a new arch needs 4/5 years how does Intel have a new one every 2? Or how did AMD develop Bobcat, Bulldozer, and Llano simultaneously? Bulldozer tapped out a long time ago, just because it isn't on market yet doesn't mean they don't have working samples of a new core already.cfaalm - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
One FP unit? Look it up again. It's two 128 bit that can combine into one 256 bit/AVX or 2 x 128 bit if only one thread needs FP. Now I don't know about the Intel side on FP, but that's it for AMD Bulldozer.Gondalf - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
One module has two Integer units (with some things in common) and ONE fp unit 128b*2. Look at Amd slides.Intel has one 256b/AVX fp unit for every integer core. In short words a quad core Intel cpu has two times the fp resources of a similar Amd device (with four integer cores obviously). A Gulftown has six integer units and six fp uinits, Bulldozer has eight integer cores and four fp units.
Amd is focusing on integer performance in multithread scenario.
Zoomer - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Which is smart considering the server / HPC focus. Intensive FP calcs can be offloaded anyway.fic2 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
It is also smart since AMD is heading down the path of the gpu being the fp engine for the cpu - I think two gens after Trinity (?). Then AMD fp will blow every cpu out of the water. Right now AMDs fp just has to be good enough. It is there integer that is sorely lacking which hopefully BD will correct.bhima - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Not that the graphics power is revolutionary (normal settings at 1366x768) but it was definitely 2 to 3 times as powerful as intels 3000 graphics.FInd a way to shoehorn in the equivalent of a desktop 5770 onto an APU and then we'll see revolutionary.
fic2 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
I think revolutionary will be when the gpu is fully integrated into the cpu in such a way that the gpu is the fp engine of the cpu. Not sure which product this will be in but AMD has said it is coming.silverblue - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Fusion is literally that, but it takes time to go from two separate items to a completely merged entity. A bit like going from two halves of a photo to a jigsaw to the complete photo, I suppose.Zoomer - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
Would it be possible to summarize the contents of the video everytime one is posted. It could be included in the article as a caption or something. Not everyone watches the video; they might not be able nor have the inclination to do so.Sabresiberian - Friday, September 16, 2011 - link
I'm not placing any bets until I see thorough tests from Anandtech and Tomshardware on these CPUs.I hope they blow Sandy Bridge and the Core series out of the water. I hope the on-die GPU technology allows for discreet cards to add some serious punch for those of us who have more than a 1920x1080 monitor and/or want to run more than 60 fps (or even 60 fps through an entire game at max settings). I have to admit though, I'm thinking a bit cynically these days, and am not really expecting more than an incremental increase in performance over what we have now.
;)
Ebonstar - Friday, September 16, 2011 - link
I see the AMD guy mentioned the stuttering on the Intel system in that demonstration.I wonder if the (very recent) patch to Deus Ex would fix that!
(From the patch notes):
Fixes:
- We have addressed various issues that can occur for players that would result in ‘stuttering’.
o Stutters that are the result of graphics driver shader processing are now removed or significantly reduced.
o Stutters that are the result of data streaming have been removed or significantly reduced.
o Performance has been improved and made more stable on dual-core systems. This could previously also result in stuttering.
silverblue - Friday, September 16, 2011 - link
It is a bit curious. When AMD did the Llano vs. Sandy Bridge comparison, they had the good sense to include the specs and driver versions at the end of the video. Obviously, it can't be done in this case, but still, knowing how both platforms measure up would be helpful. It's almost as if AMD are saying "we're using alpha hardware and software, so regardless of a performance enhancing patch aiding the HD 3000, we're still going to mop the floor with it".Has anyone tried playing the game on their i7 laptop using the integrated GPU? It would be interesting to know how it performs pre- and post-patch.