In the future could you actually make a point of informing users about the fan (A bit more info)? Does it stay on all the time? Does it switch off as this is one of the more important aspects.
For instance I've had a chance to use the following new models: (Fitted SSD, clean install, tweaked)
HP 5330m - core i3, fan off most of the time HP 6460b - core i5, fan always on and annoying HP 8460p - core i5, fan always on and annoying Dell Vostro v131, celeron, fan ALWAYS off!
Also here are the extended battery options that you missed off: HP VH08XL HP ST09 - Extended life battery (Fits under the laptop) HP BB09 - Ultra extended life battery (Massive slice, fits under the laptop)
The BB09 along with the standard battery on a 6460b will play full screen media non-stop for 14+ hours (Wireless off, lowest brightness, audio via headphones).
In my experience, the fan starts spinning on high usage like rendering or hd editing. It spins sometimes in photoshop but for short periods while in illustrator it stays off all the time (cs5.5). It also spins up but on lower rpm when i'm using both external and laptop display and it stays on all the time. If I'm using "projector" only or the laptop display only, it stays off.
Standard temperature (CPU) is around 45°C, the maximum I got it to go is up to 80°C but still the keyboard and the part around the power button never gets hot, just warm.
These are high end workstation systems. Like any user, one must make a tradeoff between power and cooling. You can't run dual 6990's without fan noise, be it a watercooling radiator setup or fans, you *have* to pay the price for power in fan noise and/or size. The only way to get fan noise lowered is to thicken the fan and thicken the unit itself. Using workstation systems myself fan noise is a non issue, I know it will be loud according to the chips I outfit it with. A high end I7 and an always on quadro GPU is going to be producing a good deal of heat even idling, no way around it, just as my 5.4L V8 in my Expedition costs more to idle in fuel and heat than the 2.3L I4 in my fiance's Ranger.
I'm aware of this. The entire new Elitebook and Probook range are thicker than nearly any laptop I've used in the last 5 years YET the fan is always on even after updating the bios which enabled the 'fan' option. That said same option no longer even does what we think it does.
I'd expect the 8760w to have fans the size of a small room :) but it would be nice to know if it EVER switches off
I too bought an 8740w just for the x1200 dreamcolor. Had it been 1080p I wouldn't have bothered. I sure hope this notebook lasts me until monitors finally start picking up resolution. This convergence to 1080p and nothing higher gives me the creeps. Thanks for pointing out that fact in this review. Oh what I wouldn't give for a nice 24" 2560x1600 standalone - which would be the exact monitor obtained from this same dreamcolor 17" glass (the 1200p one of course)... I saw that HP offers a dreamcolor standalone, but its resolution is a useless 1920 and the price is stupenduously prohibitive. Why can the upgrade on a notebook cost $500 ($600 now), but a standalone costs >$2500???
Well, mostly because the upgrade also includes the price of the base display (probably around 150-200$) and because you get much better back-lighting for desktop screens. Additionally, size does matter, there's a bunch more material costs, more/better control circuits, a power supply, a foot, and finally dream color is just a brand - so the panel is probably utterly dissimilar from that used in the desktop.
Also, the desktop screen market is a much more competitive market, as you can plug any screen into any computer - with the laptop you're limited to the options your producer gives you. If you compare the dream color offering to NEC and eizo offerings, you will see that it is priced for a certain market.
It would be interesting to see direct performance comparisons between high end IPS laptop panels and mid-end PVA/IPS desktop screens, to see just how good/bad these high-end laptop screens are, and whether they're worth the extra 600$, if you mostly use the machine at a desk, or if the same money buys a vastly superior dedicated screen.
I have to be honest, I think the screen quality (at least subjectively) is at LEAST on par with my desktop HP ZR24w and LP2465, if not outright better.
HP should showcase it at retail to show people what they're missing... You can't even buy desktop IPS screens at a brick & mortar store anymore, it's sad. I'm about to but three 1920x1200 displays (ZR24W or possibly the new Dell if I can get a discount) and I'm already dreading the day one of them dies, because I know I'll have even less options by then.
Ever since LG has made E-IPS screens you been seeing a steady decrease in prices for ips screens. This has accelerated now that LED monitors are the norm.
Yes you can get IPS at B&M, and you can get them for $150 to $300 dollars. Currently microcenter has lg ips 226v for $159, bestbuy has lg ips 236v for $199, frys has lg ips 231p for $199. LG also designs the panels that other manufactures then use, Asus, Dell, HP, and Viewsonic all have ips monitors, and some of the monitors are in various B&M.
The problem is that these eIPS screens are 6-bit color and not 8-bit. I think they're still a major improvement on TN and would love to see the market shift over to them, but they're not as good as full-on IPS panels (although I still very much prefer *VA panels for their deeper, inkier blacks.)
While they're better than TN, I dislike *VA for blackcrush. That's when the lowest 5-10% of the brightness all appear equally dark from head on, but pop up when looking from an angle. Hubble galaxy pictures tend to demonstrate this effect well since the edges of the galaxy generally fade down to the background black in a relatively smooth fashion.
Honestly I found my ZR24w (IPS) to crush blacks far worse than my LP2465 (*VA). A decently calibrated VA panel can produce fine detail in the darks, but the shimmer on an IPS panel's black drives me insane.
Odd. My NEC 2090's and 3090 are blackcrush free. I have an HP panel I never tested for it, will take a look when I get home. I've never noticed anything that could be called shimmer on my screens; but I've never looked either...
Yep, agree with Dustin. This monitor is WAY better than my U2711, not to mention that it consumes A LOT less power. The U2711 heats like it was intended to (do only that) while this monitor stays perfectly cool. Plus backlight uniformity issues and bad out-of-factory colors - had to calibrate to get anything resembling good colors out of it.
$500 + $200 = $700 * resdiff (1,78) = $1250, not $2500 (for the same res) I see no reason why the panel should be different except to keep the DPI lower on desktop, but I said I dream of a desktop variant of this same monitor == same panel. Much more competitive market == much lower prices. Limited to mfg options = higher prices. Agree about targeted pricing for a market, but I don't agree with the premium HP charges to this market.
As far as I'm concerned, I super love this display and would gladly see it duplicated for my desktop. I hated the U2711 for its heating before, now I just do most of my work on this one... But I do agree a comparison would be in order. Mostly a $200 1080p desktop IPS will more than adequately serve as the primary screen for a crappy 1080p laptop. The dreamcolor is definitely expensive, but IMO it's worth it at this price point. Not so much at $2500 :P
Forgot to mention: You really have to see this monitor with your own eyes to see how good it really is. The colors are just so ... smooth ... I'm not sure it can even be described. Like the display was soothing your eyes as you look at it. Not to mention it's uniformity which compared to other LCDs is just about what LCD geometry is to CRTs.
Well, looks like the workstation & enterprise products are finally succumbing to the market forces behind 16:9 panels. Oh, and simultaneously charging more for the IPS upgrade as well. Margins must be really tight.
I would like to see the 2 full HD screens compared for the 8760w.
I did a comparison with the 8560w, and wasn't impressed by the Dreamcolor, the "grain" or "sparkle" was too much for me, the regular screen looked a lot cleaner and nicer. Obviously the Dreamcolor has much better viewing angles, but who cares about this when working and looking at the screen at an optimal position? I also found the over-saturated colors to be too much. For a web designer all the colors were too strong, I had to set the color profile down to sRGB to get correct colors.
I ended up buying the 8760w with the regular screen, after a calibration using Spyder 3 Elite, the colors are perfect, gone is the blue tint that most TN panels have.
Nice writeup as always Dustin. I was just in the market for a 17" mobile workstation, and it came down to either the 8760w or the Dell Precision M6600. I very nearly went with the HP because I wanted the ips panel, but ultimately I wanted Optimus more.
At least I know for sure now that the ~$1k price premium on the HP (before adding the IPS panel or the 5010) evidently stems from some delusion that the HP brand still carries a reputation for premium products (something which I suspect most people stopped believing at about the same time that calculators with reverse polish notation started losing popularity), rather than because the machine is engineered and built to a standard that justifies it.
Looking at those temperatures and the machine's internals makes me glad I went with the Dell. Mine has a 2920XM in it (55w TDP vs 45 for the 2820) and it still doesn't get anything like as hot as the HP does. Furmark and prime95 will get the GPU (a quadro 4000 in this case, which I believe has the same 100w power envelope as the 5010, if not the same real-world TDP) and the CPU into the low 70s and low 80s, respectively. CPU temps over 90*c in a 17" dtr are beyond ridiculous; they're downright asinine. Trying to cool a 100w GPU AND a 45w CPU in a notebook using only one fan is idiotic.
I mean, I'd love to have the 5010 and that ips panel in the m6600, but from a build quality standpoint the Dell looks to be a much nicer machine. And with Optimus and a nearly 100Whr battery I can see 7hrs+ of real-world usage on a charge. If you need the IPS panel (and those of you that do already know that you do), this is your only option until Dell releases theirs (hopefully later this year). For the rest of you that need a 17" mobile workstation... I'd strongly suggest taking a pass on this one and grabbing a m6600 instead.
As an owner of a Dell Precision M4600, I have to agree with everything you just said. I essentially use the same CPU (just clocked .1GHz lower) as this, and yet it runs at least 10 degrees cooler under load if not more. I can't believe it can even get remotely that hot in a much larger 17" chassis.
I also absolutely agree with your comment. I too looked at the Dell vs the HP and ultimately chose the m6600 and could not be happier with my choice. Nearly everything 8760w does, the m6600 does better and for less money. The m6600 bases at a much lower price point and offers nearly the same components.
As of yet the m6600 is not available with an IPS screen or the Nvidia 5010m, however it still does not lag behind in performance because of this. The Quadro 4000m is still a beast and ultimately matches the 5010m when overclocked. I overclock my 4000m to 620/1240/1625 (core/shader/memory) from the stock 475/950/1250 clock and the temps still max out at just over 70*c while gaming. Im sure that the 5010m would also be a great a overclocker but certainly not in the 8760w, the cooling is simply far too inadequate to handle it.
There are many other smaller details that I believe push the m6600 ahead of the 8760w, and as such it'd be great if Anandtech did a comparison review of the two.
I don't understand why there has been this push. Who does it benefit? The only things it's beneficial for is the elimination of black bars around video. Big deal. To be honest, I'd happily sacrifice a little pixel density to have an appropriate aspect ratio. There were very good reasons for the adoption of 16:10.
I was going to buy an x220 - didn't because of the 16:9 panel. It's now becoming apparent that I can't keep this up, as soon I will have no other options.
Oh, and that pixel density jump that everyone's waiting for? Not happening any time soon. Next gen of consoles will output at 1080p mark my words - and video won't be released in higher than 1080p for some time (not to mention the limits of HDMI etc). So until there is media that requires greater res, we are stuck here.
If anyone can offer me some words of comfort/hope, please feel free.
When manufacturing LCD's from the standard set size of glass you can get more 16:9 than 16:10 panels of the equivalent size and also get less waste glass.
As to your other comment the most common size monitors were 5:4 1280x1024, 16:10 1680x1050 and now 16:9 1920x1080 so yes monitor resolutions are increasing.
In the UK for what it cost to buy a 22" 1680x1050 TFT monitor 3 years ago you can now get a 23" 1920x1080 IPS monitor or if you want something bigger a 27" 2560x1440 monitor is now available for what it used to cost to buy a 1920x1200 monitor.
You get more pixels on your screen but the ratio between vertical and horizontal if getting way out of proportion making the higher resolution less efficient. Maybe 16:9 is nice for movies and a wide spreadsheet but 16:10 and even 4:3 or 5:3 are far better when working on text documents or drawings. I still have a nc6320 or soemthing with a 15" 1400 x 1050 screen. It's getting a bit long in the tooth but I still like that screen better than the 1600 x 900 affair that's common on many laptops today.
I too feel your pain but the performance increase s so worth it. Also, buy the X220 its the best netbook ever (yeah it's a laptop but compared to my workstations it's a netbook)
I actually like the new HP business laptops looks, I ordered a Probook 6465b myself, sports the same kind of look as Elitebook, although at 14" and with Llano :P.
I hope Lenovo sees this and starts improving their Thinkpads, and that finally we start seeing screens improving, another reason why I bought the probook was the 1600x900 that's almost impossible to find in a mid-priced laptop.
Clevo is like a laptop pressure cooker. They basically build out a desktop into a laptop and the one that you see toping the charts has Cross Fire GPUs.
Make sure you carry a generator with you if you get one.
That no mention was made of HP exiting the PC business? Its a very nice machine (if not cheap exactly), but why buy a machine from a company that is no longer going to be in the business?
I don't know why 1920 x 1200 is going by the wayside. That's a phenomenal resolution. I'm not a graphic artist but I do take advantage of that resolution by being able to have 2 windows side by side as well as being able to run games at that resolution.
possibly cost? i remember when i was working for an OEM, we were told that LCD sizes depended largely on how much can be cut out of a single sheet of glass. something to the effect of you can get more by cutting a piece for a 17 inch panel compared to an 18 inch panel. don't know how true any of that is though.
It is cheaper to manufacture just like teng029 said. You get less wasted glass, because the glass is usually circular meaning the bigger rectangle from 16:10, you'll get more wasted material and fewer panels from a single piece.
I think, these high-end laptops are the best option only if you really need to travel or move too frequently and even a dedicated carry on would be a pain. I understand the need for this machines but they offer a reduced performance or some critical size compromises. I would go with the HP if the Dreamcolor and a decent performance are required. But the Clevo is the monster option on specific apps.
A consideration I would do is having a SFF PC as it would be "easy" to transport on a carry on and it will cost you 2 or 3K less. I builded one Shuttle PC with a Quad-core and a single slot Quadro a few years ago. Today there are more options and very powerful too as the same 990x and a dual slot Quadro are real options on SFF PCs. I know the monitor needs to fit inside the carry on and in my case a Wacom tablet too. But I did it and it is a good choice if you need to move for maybe a few days or more on one location. Also I included a Mac Book Pro.
Finally, if I ever do need a laptop in this class I guess I would also consider a tablet to read the internet.
On May 13th I ordered the 8760W with all the goodies and specified dual Intel 510 240GB SSDs installed in raid 0. (Note these are 6GB sata). Delivery estimate was approx three weeks. About 3 months later I finally get delivery (August 10 th) and on inspection I find that Instead of the Intel 510 SSDs I ordered it had obselete Micron (no longer in Microns database) 3 GB SSDs. After severel days of going round and around the support chain from the Philipines to Mexico and talking to at least 6 Managers the bottom line from HP is TOUGH. You can send it back to us and we will evaluate it or live with it. After a three month delay in shipping with new shipping dates every other day which really screwed up my client scheduling they wanted it back. They flatout refused to send me the correct drives and accept the wrong ones in return. They all quoted "policy", and not one of them would move me up the chain of command to authorise any change. Bottom line is that while the 8760W is a beautiful piece of machinery and does Panoramics as fast as my I920 OC desktop I still feel that they did a bait and switch on the SSDs. After the dozens of HP laptops I have recommend to my clients this is the last. NO MORE!
Where did you buy that laptop? If our dealers deliver something wrong we just send it back and do not pay. If there is no delivery date we look somewhere else. We have several dealers and they know we have the option of switching so they do their best if something goes wrong.
yeah I was planning to get a 17" DTR with sandybridge-- all was fine and dandy till I Got to the specifications for the screen. Sorry, but I want a 1200p screen. even when I watch videos-- which is rare because I prefer to watch on home theater and use my laptop for work-- I PREFER to have space above/below the screen for the menu bar. Well, I am waiting for the 1200p screens to return and if they don't -- I will eventually settle for a 15.6" 1080p screen. I just am not buying a 17" or larger laptop with only 1080p screen.
17" is a little too big for my taste - I would appreciate a similar in-depth review (great job on this one by the way!) for HP 8560w. Specifically, I am interested in knowing that Quadro 1000M is any less taxing on battery than the one in 8760w.
certainly a much better design than Dell's current Latitude line. i've tried carrying a 17.3 inch notebook before and didn't particularly care for it. and like so many other posters have mentioned, i still prefer 16x10 panels.
As always, computers of this class are something your employer buys you. Individuals are not likely to pay for items like this, but organizations whose cost-accounting recognizes that the hardware is a small fraction of the cost of maintaining an employee are not going to be put off by a thousand dollar premium. Compared to the software packages that enterprises use, the amortized cost of support and infrastructure, and the salaries of the people that use them, six thousand in hardware is chump change.
Buy this one with someone else's money, not your own, and you (and they) get the value expected for something this expensive.
Thank you, That was what I had in mind for years, but still something I wanted to check over time. I worked for BP years ago and sure they provided fancy hardware and software even for contractors. I remember a Silicon Graphics computer on a corner and it was only used for an advanced student on one study. Today this HP laptop is way too superior but computing requirements may also increase with time.
I really don't see how the desktop space has somehow "lost" 30" monitors almost entirely. From my experience over the past years, the 30" crowd has been very stable. The 27" high-res didn't destroy anything and gave people a cheap middle ground between cheap 24" 1200p and overpriced 1600p 30" monitors. I think 27" 2560x1440 has been about the only positive development in the desktop monitor market for a long time, partially making up for the move to 1080p in the 21"-27" market.
I personally hope the tablet/smartphone display development with high densities will transfer to the desktop market soon.
Gah!!! Like zaccun I'm tempted to go after a spare. If the replacement was 2844x1600 I could probably live with the aspect ratio reduction, but for anything resembling work vertical size is more important than width.
Ah, haven't heard anything like that on my regular computer news sites. And I haven't noticed any increase in prices with 30" screens. But I'll keep an eye out for that now. :-)
Still, even with them being phased out, I will not pay 1000-1100€ for a 30" 2560x1600 screen when I get a 27" 2560x1440 for 600-650€. The added value for me just isn't there.
Unless I will have a lot of spare money soon I'll try and wait until the pixel density goes to tablet/smartphone levels or at least gets closer to them. :-)
Got a question for Brian, why are the manufacturers phasing them out less than a year after launching new models? I'd assumed that the 2011 models would be around for at least a few years like their 07/08 ancestors were.
I think it's mostly that the manufacturers aren't going to be making any new versions of their 30" panels. Heck, HP has been selling the LP3065 for a very long time, and while it's a great 30" panel, the lack of any improvements over a 4 year span is pretty shocking. Now, they're figuring they can make a 27" LCD and sell it for nearly the same price, and get more of them per glass substrate.
<<Now, they're figuring they can make a 27" LCD and sell it for nearly the same price, and get more of them per glass substrate. >> I really don't see that idea taking off. Sure, with professional monitors the class of Eizo and NEC which are used in business environments, it can work as price is only a small fraction of the consideration (although especially business environments with the need for big software will likely still want the 16:10 aspect ratio). But I doubt anyone in their right mind will take to the idea of paying the same price for 27" monitors that you used to pay for 30" monitors. With the switch from 16:10 to 16:9 in the 21"-27" scene, at least you also got decreased prices across the board.
HP has replaced the LP3065 with the ZR30w earlier this year. With the 30" model being a top end item aimed primarily at business customers; not the consumer market several years between new revisions doesn't strike me as a major problem.
Truth be told, I wasn't expecting new models for a few years and suspect the impetus will either be LED backlights finally surpassing the best CCFL backlights in color accuracy and stability, or when the hardware driving the panels becomes capable of running at 120hz for 3d support. LED backlighting is what I'm hoping to hold out for before replacing my 3090. My desktop is more of a space heater, but I'd still like to be able to drop ~50-75W from my main screen.
While these desktop-replacement EliteBook monsters are nice for their raw power, I think they are a bit off the mark for the average enterprise buyer. A large company looking to outfit a workforce of consultants or traveling salespeople with notebooks might keep their employees happier with smaller and lighter notebooks.
Will HP be producing any ultrabooks under the EliteBook brand? I don't need a quad-core i7 to run Outlook, PowerPoint, or Excel, but a .8" thick, 3 lb notebook with a nice 1440x900 screen would be just perfect.
A lot of people don't realize the value of a desktop-replacement monster like this one. I used to decry 17" notebooks just like most of you do, but ever since I graduated college I've found that a 17" notebook can actually be practically ideal for travelling. When I was at CES I set my Studio 17 up in the hotel room to get serious work done, and then brought my ThinkPad X100e with me in the field.
There are circumstances where an 8760w would be ideal; as a business machine, the user could easily carry his or her work to and from home. Most of their travel time would likely be commuting to and from work on a daily basis, and that makes the notebook's weight largely irrelevant.
Not even Apple makes a .8" thick notebook. Keep in mind, super-thin notebooks are: (A) not usually the fastest options (B) Very very few ports (C) More breakable (D) Less screen options.
The ThinkPad X1 is 1" thick, 3.7 lbs, 13" screen @ 1366x768, gorilla glass, lighte-up keyboard. Can come with Core i5 or i7 CPU, 4 or 8 GB RAM, HD or SSD, Optional broadband card. Issues: noisy fan and the keyboard gets warm, short battery time. Starts at $1300 (NO DVD-RW Drive)
The ThinkPad X220 is also 1" thick (Looks thicker than the X1), 3.0lbs, 12.5" screen @ 1366x768. Has a normal keyboard, almost silent, i5 or i7 CPUs. No glare screen. Starts at $900. (NO DVD-RW Drive)
ThinkPad T420s is the closest spec. 1" thick, 14" screen at 1600x900 (Remember, 16:10 is dead - those bastards!), i5 CPU, 4~8GB RAM. But its 3.9lbs. Starts at $1,150.
I personally prefer the T420 (non S) because its $250 cheaper, but its thicker and heavier.
Whenever I order ThinkPads for my clients or friends, I usually get them in 10 days or less. Not 2-3 months.
I'm typing this response on my .68" thick Apple notebook, complete with a Core i7 processor. No, it isn't as fast as the 8760, but it's quick enough for about 90% of traveling professionals. I raised the question since the EliteBook line is well-made and specifically targeted at enterprises. Thus, if there will be an EliteBook Ultrabook, it will likely be something that large companies notice.
Okay... I am in COMPLETE agreement Dustin Sklavos about the computer industry's stupid desire for 16:9. Yes, its fine for HD-Movies, etc. but for computer usage, I want my 120 pixeld back!
During the transition to 16:9 with Lenovo. Here is how BAD 16:9 is... I buy/order ThinkPad for friends and clients. I compared a new ThinkPad T14 with a 16:10 vs a ThinkPad with a 15" 16:9. Both had the same vertical resolution. Both monitors were the exact same height.
When working with small screens... it just makes the screen feel smaller, more cramped! (*@&$#$@ Drop the 1080 for bloody business computers! I'll be keeping my OLD 24" 1920x1600 monitor for as long as possible! I'm GLAD to see 27" monitors hitting the market with 2550x1440... but I'd really WANT to see a 27~28" with 2560x1600 instead. Such monitors are already OUT OF HD-SPEC anyway... so why stick with STUPID 16:9....? Oh yeah, it costs LESS to make a 16:9 vs 16:10... as as wide screens are cheaper than 4:3 monitors (Which are still nice). But at 30" and $1200 - these have to sit WAY back and suck up way too much desk space. We're still looking at $1000 for such a 27". *sigh*
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$6500 for this notebook? Okay, its more workstation than business notebook - right? With LOUD fans and chicklet keyboard, it should be far cheaper. That standard HP keyboard is HORRIBLE, tiny UP/Down cursor keys? (Only backlit ThinkPad keys are also island style, but with some slight curve).
ThinkPads don't come in 17" anymore (or at this moment). Not much desire for such screens, especially when 15.6" 1920x1080 screens is almost as big as a 17.3".
For $3045, I custom built a ThinkPad W520 (Workstation Series). Same i7-2820QM CPU, 8GB RAM. Has a 1920x1080 FHD screen (these look very nice, but I doubt as good as on this HP). Quadro 2000M with 2GB. This is usually half to a third slower than the Quadro 5000 series.
160GB intel SSD (320 series) drive (better than that crap Micron drive) - but its easy to simply save $320 to go with a regular HDD and buy an aftermarket Intel 510 series 250GB unit.
This config includes BlueTooth 3.0 / Centrino 6300N (if you you're going to upgrade beyond the basic... might as well go all the way), Mobile Broadband with GPS. 3 year on-site warranty with Damage protection.
This weighs about 5lbs, far better keyboard, better touch pad. Meanwhile HP double-copies ThinkPad's 3-button touchpad design as well as the mouse-stick in the middle of the keyboard (Might as well just get a ThinkPad). Battery life is about 4 hours with general usage. The HP has about a 1~2hr running time? This is almost useless for business!
I've setup an X220 (13" screen), it has about a 5~6hr battery life (optional big battery lasts about 10~20hrs), barely 3lbs, 1" thick with an i5 CPU.
Most of these ThinkPads are very quiet. The T and W series are very quiet. Bigger X series as well, not the X1 - way too thin with bad cooling.
For $6500... this notebook needs to offer a lot more. Is this HP trying look like Apple?
Thought Apple sold the most expensive computers? A MacPro 17" notebook WITH 1920x1200, same quad CPU and 8GB RAM and 250GB SSD is $3500. It doesn't have internal Mobile Broadband options (why?)... but looks better and cheaper than HP... with the money saved, spend $1000 for the 27" 2550x1440 monitor.
Except the MacBook Pro doesn't have Quadro workstation graphics or the high gamut DreamColor monitor. If you have need of those (which is admittedly a large part of what this is for), a Mac isn't going to cut it.
I agree in part, Apple doesn't sell the most expensive or cheap computers. And to my understanding and direct experience Apple provides an intermediate professional grade driver support (when the app is available on OSX). Apple wont get you 4X full screen antialiasing but some aliasing however, they don't provide full support or some fancy features as 3D stereo, but absolutely professional work is way better on Apple computers with consumer hardware than in a consumer grade equivalent on a PC. Again, an intermediate and limited solution not an advance one. Lets remember GPU consumer hardware is very similar and even equivalent to pro GPUs. But today not the same.
But for this review my conclusion is this $6500 HP with the Dreamcolor and Quadro 5000 is only justifiable for critical content creation. Not even for demanding CAD/CAM visualizations because those fields wont require such color accuracy and could get away with a decent and way cheaper LCD. For industrial design the fast CPU and powerful GPU never is enough. But why the Dreamcolor? if any IPS monitor with way less accuracy will do?
And even for content creation not everybody needs a Dreamcolor as even most experienced users working in content creation does not require or even could distinguish critical color corrections.
As a matter of fact very few professionals need such color accuracy. Only for final color correction on video, video games, animation, or final product visualization as in the car industry, but this could be also be considered video pre or post production.
The Dreamcolor brand from HP was specifically created for Sony Pictures 3D animation (?) in 2008. Correct me if I am wrong.
For final color correction in video post processing using Scratch I can see this machine as a way to present the client the final product, and even for some critical last minute color correction.
Where did you get a 1920x1600 monitor? That's 12:10 / 6:5 ratio, never heard of that. :-)
As for the 27" vs. 30" argument, I agree that desktop monitor density has to pick up, because it's really not moving that fast compared to normal desktop computing hardware or mobile display densities. But I do wonder where you get your numbers from comparing 30" to 27" 2560*1xxx. Here in Germany the cheap consumer 30" options (Dell, HP, LG) start at 1050€ and go to 1200€ (Apple Cinema HD is an outrageous 1799,-€), while the 27" models come in at 600€ and go to 700€ (Dell, Fujitsu, Samsung) and there is even a new entry who used to only ship within the UK who sells one 2560x1440 monitor for 500€ and one for 580€, though I don't know if the quality is comparable to the others. :-)
So for you the 30" models are 20% more expensive than the 27" options (1200$ vs 1000$) while for me the 30" monitors are 75% more expensive than the 27" options (1050€ vs 600€). If that is the case, you guys are being ripped off!
Checking Dell's website the 3011 is $1499, the 2711 is $1099 at list prices. Dells older 30" models were several hundred cheaper and the 3011 goes on sale at 25% off once or twice a year. I'm not aware of the 2711 ever having done the same.
I think the only way to get prices that close $1200 vs $1000 are to compare current vs last generation models or sale vs not sale prices.
The 8760W circle jerk was ordered directly from HP's SMB order desk. I ran into incomptence, buckpassing, and stonewalling at all levels I was able to contact. I have retained about 25 pages of documentation and emails pertaining to this order. Someday I might be able to reach someone in HP that has the cajones to solve the problem. I sure miss the days when Officers of HP were reachable.
This is a great question. I guess the answer lies in the cost associated with having to produce left and right hand models. In the userspace this model targets there is likely to be higher than general population mean left handers given the creative nature of content creation and it's propensity to appeal to more right brain dominant thinkers.
For most laptops though it would probably be a winner to move the trackpad to favour the majority.
Interestingly if you look at the trackpad on 6740 it's central only to the qwerty keyboard and not the number pad. I guess it's to reduce the travel time between keys and trackpad.
Clever ergonomics. I'm assuming English isn't your first language so if I've misunderstood your point I'm sorry.
This portable workstation is a monster. I looked at Cleveos and decided the companies that supply them were too small and unknown to send them a $6000.00 wire transfer, and that HP would be safer, seeing as how HP also wanted the order prepaid. WRONG! My uses for this is usually in a small motel room at the end of a long day shooting landscapes with a high end DSLR and the raw images are initialy processed into TIFs with DXO and doing any finishing touches with Photoshop CS5.5. Battery life is unimportant in this case. 1 hour would be fine for me. Would I like a bigger screen? YES! but this one is liviable. I'm hoping that Ivy Bridge will be interchangable next year for an upgrade to the Ivy Bridge 2920 equivalente. I have to say I am happy with the unit so far other than the screwup on the SSDs. I only ordered 16 GB of memory as the 32 GB is extremely exorbinant. About the smallest prints I have made are 24X36 with most going to 36X48.
Yeah, i think 14-14.5 is the sweet spot for me. Gimme one with IPS and I'll be happy. Is HP build quality getting better? Cause they bought compaq and compaq was horrible at least for me.
Sorry Jecs... you replied to a spammer post (the web address in the link was one of those stupid fashion-related spamming sites we've had lately). I've removed the account (only4customer) but here's you response to his post: ----------- Desktop monitors are on another class of color accuracy, color depth, screen uniformity, gamut, black or white levels, grays, contrast, almost everything. But I can't remember right now where I read the review. It is directly related to the stronger backlighting technology or possibilities on desktop monitors. Desktop monitors even include very powerful graphic cards and circuits with dedicated chips and memory for internal 16 bit per channel signal processing. This is very difficult to solve inside the limited space laptops provides.
To my experience the best laptop monitors are clearly inferior to the best desktops if you have both screens directly available in the same room with the same source side by side.
However this Dreamcolor HP screen may be the best mobile screen in the market right now and I guess it could even give some cheaper IPS desktop monitors a circle or 2.
I actually bought one of these at work, with the Dreamcolor screen too. It is the best looking laptop screen I've seen and maintains the top quality that their Dreamcolor monitors have (I have one of those too.)
Unlike probably most of the people here, I've also had the 2 previous generations of these Elitebooks and this is a huge improvement.
It's very cool. if the graphics is GTX 590.it will be a powerful notebook. play games, listen music,have a nice browse internet, it........just amazing!`
Just got one for my work with i7-2360QM 2GHz 8GB RAM 64 bit, AMD Firepro M5950 Mobility Pro graphics
It was a quick order, because I was told it had the specs I needed for engineering software I use that is a CPU hog. But so far, I'm not exactly thrilled with it.
Its definitely better than what I had to work with before, ie it dramatically speeds up processing time on a program that runs wireless network predictions that used to take several hours---this laptop has cut processing time down dramatically.
But out of the box, the touchpad mouse didnt work. No big deal, but really annoying. Had to do a BIOs update, unistalled the driver. Driver actually seemed to make it work worse. On the plus side, I think the fan is relatively quiet. Surprisingly so. Heavy computer, which is to be expected
Color is strange on this laptop. It apparently has HP Dreamcolor, which must mean "bright garish color". The red is almost blinding, and on the program I use most, the green shades blend, whereas on my old HP laptop, no problems. Have tried to figure out how to calibrate color, but it doesnt seem to make much difference. Most trouble Ive had with a computer out of the box since getting one with Vista.
That said, I guess I should have looked more closely and gotten something with more powerful processor? The main program I run still maxes out this CPU for most of the time its running my predictions (which can be hours at a time), and just doesnt give me the lighnting fast processing that I was hoping for.
But I know enough to be dangerous about processors--- maybe its a really good one and this is the best I could expect for under $3K? Any suggestions appreciated.
If you absolutely must have a portable it's the best available but if not something with dual high-end Xeons is probably going to more likely to provide the grunt you need for high end engineering type apps like FEA software etc. I've moved today from an older generation workstation with dual Xeons (HP XW8400) to one of these laptops and it's definitely faster except on disk I/O performance but I moved because I needed a portable. I've no doubt that the new Workstations I see under the desks of the FEA guys are an order of magnitude faster for these tasks.
I bought a 8760w(exact model is ) about 4 months ago. The motherboard failed after 2 days. Was sent for repair but came back with a problem with the fan. Was sent for repair again. Came back unfixed but with a dead pixel. HP sent an engineer to replace the screen. Engineer arrive with a mother board for a completely different laptop. 2nd engineer came and fix the screen. Hurrah!, but still problem with the fan always running. HP took laptop to be 'analysed' 3 weeks ago. Have heard nothing since. Despite asking a few times HP support has been unable to even give a status update. Don't know what's going to happen next but I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS LAPTOP and I THINK HP's 'Total Care' IS A JOKE!! Buy a Dell, Lenovo or Mac instead.
It's frustrating enough that the laptop has problems. That HP seem unable to fix it has left me feeling I've been completely ripped off. Don't expect anything special from HP for buying their top of the line model. Clearly to their support operators it is more important that they tick boxes that try and help the customer.
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damianrobertjones - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
In the future could you actually make a point of informing users about the fan (A bit more info)? Does it stay on all the time? Does it switch off as this is one of the more important aspects.For instance I've had a chance to use the following new models: (Fitted SSD, clean install, tweaked)
HP 5330m - core i3, fan off most of the time
HP 6460b - core i5, fan always on and annoying
HP 8460p - core i5, fan always on and annoying
Dell Vostro v131, celeron, fan ALWAYS off!
Also here are the extended battery options that you missed off:
HP VH08XL
HP ST09 - Extended life battery (Fits under the laptop)
HP BB09 - Ultra extended life battery (Massive slice, fits under the laptop)
The BB09 along with the standard battery on a 6460b will play full screen media non-stop for 14+ hours (Wireless off, lowest brightness, audio via headphones).
Thanks
nirolf - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
+1, more info on the noise would be nice.B3an - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Same. More fan info please.wawawiwa - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
In my experience, the fan starts spinning on high usage like rendering or hd editing. It spins sometimes in photoshop but for short periods while in illustrator it stays off all the time (cs5.5). It also spins up but on lower rpm when i'm using both external and laptop display and it stays on all the time. If I'm using "projector" only or the laptop display only, it stays off.Standard temperature (CPU) is around 45°C, the maximum I got it to go is up to 80°C but still the keyboard and the part around the power button never gets hot, just warm.
It is a beast.
heymrdj - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
These are high end workstation systems. Like any user, one must make a tradeoff between power and cooling. You can't run dual 6990's without fan noise, be it a watercooling radiator setup or fans, you *have* to pay the price for power in fan noise and/or size. The only way to get fan noise lowered is to thicken the fan and thicken the unit itself. Using workstation systems myself fan noise is a non issue, I know it will be loud according to the chips I outfit it with. A high end I7 and an always on quadro GPU is going to be producing a good deal of heat even idling, no way around it, just as my 5.4L V8 in my Expedition costs more to idle in fuel and heat than the 2.3L I4 in my fiance's Ranger.damianrobertjones - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I'm aware of this. The entire new Elitebook and Probook range are thicker than nearly any laptop I've used in the last 5 years YET the fan is always on even after updating the bios which enabled the 'fan' option. That said same option no longer even does what we think it does.I'd expect the 8760w to have fans the size of a small room :) but it would be nice to know if it EVER switches off
Barfo - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
yesvelis - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I too bought an 8740w just for the x1200 dreamcolor. Had it been 1080p I wouldn't have bothered. I sure hope this notebook lasts me until monitors finally start picking up resolution. This convergence to 1080p and nothing higher gives me the creeps. Thanks for pointing out that fact in this review.Oh what I wouldn't give for a nice 24" 2560x1600 standalone - which would be the exact monitor obtained from this same dreamcolor 17" glass (the 1200p one of course)...
I saw that HP offers a dreamcolor standalone, but its resolution is a useless 1920 and the price is stupenduously prohibitive. Why can the upgrade on a notebook cost $500 ($600 now), but a standalone costs >$2500???
Rick83 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Well, mostly because the upgrade also includes the price of the base display (probably around 150-200$) and because you get much better back-lighting for desktop screens.Additionally, size does matter, there's a bunch more material costs, more/better control circuits, a power supply, a foot, and finally dream color is just a brand - so the panel is probably utterly dissimilar from that used in the desktop.
Also, the desktop screen market is a much more competitive market, as you can plug any screen into any computer - with the laptop you're limited to the options your producer gives you.
If you compare the dream color offering to NEC and eizo offerings, you will see that it is priced for a certain market.
It would be interesting to see direct performance comparisons between high end IPS laptop panels and mid-end PVA/IPS desktop screens, to see just how good/bad these high-end laptop screens are, and whether they're worth the extra 600$, if you mostly use the machine at a desk, or if the same money buys a vastly superior dedicated screen.
Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I have to be honest, I think the screen quality (at least subjectively) is at LEAST on par with my desktop HP ZR24w and LP2465, if not outright better.Impulses - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
HP should showcase it at retail to show people what they're missing... You can't even buy desktop IPS screens at a brick & mortar store anymore, it's sad. I'm about to but three 1920x1200 displays (ZR24W or possibly the new Dell if I can get a discount) and I'm already dreading the day one of them dies, because I know I'll have even less options by then.Roland00Address - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Ever since LG has made E-IPS screens you been seeing a steady decrease in prices for ips screens. This has accelerated now that LED monitors are the norm.Yes you can get IPS at B&M, and you can get them for $150 to $300 dollars. Currently microcenter has lg ips 226v for $159, bestbuy has lg ips 236v for $199, frys has lg ips 231p for $199. LG also designs the panels that other manufactures then use, Asus, Dell, HP, and Viewsonic all have ips monitors, and some of the monitors are in various B&M.
Dustin Sklavos - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
The problem is that these eIPS screens are 6-bit color and not 8-bit. I think they're still a major improvement on TN and would love to see the market shift over to them, but they're not as good as full-on IPS panels (although I still very much prefer *VA panels for their deeper, inkier blacks.)DanNeely - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
While they're better than TN, I dislike *VA for blackcrush. That's when the lowest 5-10% of the brightness all appear equally dark from head on, but pop up when looking from an angle. Hubble galaxy pictures tend to demonstrate this effect well since the edges of the galaxy generally fade down to the background black in a relatively smooth fashion.Dustin Sklavos - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Honestly I found my ZR24w (IPS) to crush blacks far worse than my LP2465 (*VA). A decently calibrated VA panel can produce fine detail in the darks, but the shimmer on an IPS panel's black drives me insane.DanNeely - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Odd. My NEC 2090's and 3090 are blackcrush free. I have an HP panel I never tested for it, will take a look when I get home. I've never noticed anything that could be called shimmer on my screens; but I've never looked either...velis - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Yep, agree with Dustin. This monitor is WAY better than my U2711, not to mention that it consumes A LOT less power. The U2711 heats like it was intended to (do only that) while this monitor stays perfectly cool. Plus backlight uniformity issues and bad out-of-factory colors - had to calibrate to get anything resembling good colors out of it.$500 + $200 = $700 * resdiff (1,78) = $1250, not $2500 (for the same res)
I see no reason why the panel should be different except to keep the DPI lower on desktop, but I said I dream of a desktop variant of this same monitor == same panel.
Much more competitive market == much lower prices. Limited to mfg options = higher prices.
Agree about targeted pricing for a market, but I don't agree with the premium HP charges to this market.
As far as I'm concerned, I super love this display and would gladly see it duplicated for my desktop. I hated the U2711 for its heating before, now I just do most of my work on this one... But I do agree a comparison would be in order. Mostly a $200 1080p desktop IPS will more than adequately serve as the primary screen for a crappy 1080p laptop. The dreamcolor is definitely expensive, but IMO it's worth it at this price point. Not so much at $2500 :P
velis - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Forgot to mention:You really have to see this monitor with your own eyes to see how good it really is. The colors are just so ... smooth ... I'm not sure it can even be described. Like the display was soothing your eyes as you look at it.
Not to mention it's uniformity which compared to other LCDs is just about what LCD geometry is to CRTs.
wsaenotsock - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Well, looks like the workstation & enterprise products are finally succumbing to the market forces behind 16:9 panels. Oh, and simultaneously charging more for the IPS upgrade as well. Margins must be really tight.alpha10 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I would like to see the 2 full HD screens compared for the 8760w.I did a comparison with the 8560w, and wasn't impressed by the Dreamcolor, the "grain" or "sparkle" was too much for me, the regular screen looked a lot cleaner and nicer. Obviously the Dreamcolor has much better viewing angles, but who cares about this when working and looking at the screen at an optimal position? I also found the over-saturated colors to be too much. For a web designer all the colors were too strong, I had to set the color profile down to sRGB to get correct colors.
I ended up buying the 8760w with the regular screen, after a calibration using Spyder 3 Elite, the colors are perfect, gone is the blue tint that most TN panels have.
Siorus - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Nice writeup as always Dustin. I was just in the market for a 17" mobile workstation, and it came down to either the 8760w or the Dell Precision M6600. I very nearly went with the HP because I wanted the ips panel, but ultimately I wanted Optimus more.At least I know for sure now that the ~$1k price premium on the HP (before adding the IPS panel or the 5010) evidently stems from some delusion that the HP brand still carries a reputation for premium products (something which I suspect most people stopped believing at about the same time that calculators with reverse polish notation started losing popularity), rather than because the machine is engineered and built to a standard that justifies it.
Looking at those temperatures and the machine's internals makes me glad I went with the Dell. Mine has a 2920XM in it (55w TDP vs 45 for the 2820) and it still doesn't get anything like as hot as the HP does. Furmark and prime95 will get the GPU (a quadro 4000 in this case, which I believe has the same 100w power envelope as the 5010, if not the same real-world TDP) and the CPU into the low 70s and low 80s, respectively. CPU temps over 90*c in a 17" dtr are beyond ridiculous; they're downright asinine. Trying to cool a 100w GPU AND a 45w CPU in a notebook using only one fan is idiotic.
I mean, I'd love to have the 5010 and that ips panel in the m6600, but from a build quality standpoint the Dell looks to be a much nicer machine. And with Optimus and a nearly 100Whr battery I can see 7hrs+ of real-world usage on a charge. If you need the IPS panel (and those of you that do already know that you do), this is your only option until Dell releases theirs (hopefully later this year). For the rest of you that need a 17" mobile workstation... I'd strongly suggest taking a pass on this one and grabbing a m6600 instead.
Solidstate89 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
As an owner of a Dell Precision M4600, I have to agree with everything you just said. I essentially use the same CPU (just clocked .1GHz lower) as this, and yet it runs at least 10 degrees cooler under load if not more. I can't believe it can even get remotely that hot in a much larger 17" chassis.Aaron_J - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
I also absolutely agree with your comment. I too looked at the Dell vs the HP and ultimately chose the m6600 and could not be happier with my choice. Nearly everything 8760w does, the m6600 does better and for less money. The m6600 bases at a much lower price point and offers nearly the same components.As of yet the m6600 is not available with an IPS screen or the Nvidia 5010m, however it still does not lag behind in performance because of this. The Quadro 4000m is still a beast and ultimately matches the 5010m when overclocked. I overclock my 4000m to 620/1240/1625 (core/shader/memory) from the stock 475/950/1250 clock and the temps still max out at just over 70*c while gaming. Im sure that the 5010m would also be a great a overclocker but certainly not in the 8760w, the cooling is simply far too inadequate to handle it.
There are many other smaller details that I believe push the m6600 ahead of the 8760w, and as such it'd be great if Anandtech did a comparison review of the two.
Sufo - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
16:9 is for TVs.I don't understand why there has been this push. Who does it benefit? The only things it's beneficial for is the elimination of black bars around video. Big deal. To be honest, I'd happily sacrifice a little pixel density to have an appropriate aspect ratio. There were very good reasons for the adoption of 16:10.
I was going to buy an x220 - didn't because of the 16:9 panel. It's now becoming apparent that I can't keep this up, as soon I will have no other options.
Oh, and that pixel density jump that everyone's waiting for? Not happening any time soon. Next gen of consoles will output at 1080p mark my words - and video won't be released in higher than 1080p for some time (not to mention the limits of HDMI etc). So until there is media that requires greater res, we are stuck here.
If anyone can offer me some words of comfort/hope, please feel free.
Ushio01 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
When manufacturing LCD's from the standard set size of glass you can get more 16:9 than 16:10 panels of the equivalent size and also get less waste glass.As to your other comment the most common size monitors were 5:4 1280x1024, 16:10 1680x1050 and now 16:9 1920x1080 so yes monitor resolutions are increasing.
In the UK for what it cost to buy a 22" 1680x1050 TFT monitor 3 years ago you can now get a 23" 1920x1080 IPS monitor or if you want something bigger a 27" 2560x1440 monitor is now available for what it used to cost to buy a 1920x1200 monitor.
HMTK - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
You get more pixels on your screen but the ratio between vertical and horizontal if getting way out of proportion making the higher resolution less efficient. Maybe 16:9 is nice for movies and a wide spreadsheet but 16:10 and even 4:3 or 5:3 are far better when working on text documents or drawings. I still have a nc6320 or soemthing with a 15" 1400 x 1050 screen. It's getting a bit long in the tooth but I still like that screen better than the 1600 x 900 affair that's common on many laptops today.noeldillabough - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
I too feel your pain but the performance increase s so worth it. Also, buy the X220 its the best netbook ever (yeah it's a laptop but compared to my workstations it's a netbook)I have an Air too and I love the X220 the best.
Medallish - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I actually like the new HP business laptops looks, I ordered a Probook 6465b myself, sports the same kind of look as Elitebook, although at 14" and with Llano :P.I hope Lenovo sees this and starts improving their Thinkpads, and that finally we start seeing screens improving, another reason why I bought the probook was the 1600x900 that's almost impossible to find in a mid-priced laptop.
arnavvdesai - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
The Sony Vaio Z has a 13" screen & it has a 1080p resolution. Its time to get better screens.Sladeofdark - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Thank you for the great review as always. Now im going to go find out what Clevo is.. and purchase one.prophet001 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
lolClevo is like a laptop pressure cooker. They basically build out a desktop into a laptop and the one that you see toping the charts has Cross Fire GPUs.
Make sure you carry a generator with you if you get one.
Stuka87 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
That no mention was made of HP exiting the PC business? Its a very nice machine (if not cheap exactly), but why buy a machine from a company that is no longer going to be in the business?mbetter - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
Why not?Tuffrabbit - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Way to go HP, by going to a 16:9 aspect ratio vs. 16:10, you've just lost another customer...prophet001 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I don't know why 1920 x 1200 is going by the wayside. That's a phenomenal resolution. I'm not a graphic artist but I do take advantage of that resolution by being able to have 2 windows side by side as well as being able to run games at that resolution.teng029 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
possibly cost? i remember when i was working for an OEM, we were told that LCD sizes depended largely on how much can be cut out of a single sheet of glass. something to the effect of you can get more by cutting a piece for a 17 inch panel compared to an 18 inch panel. don't know how true any of that is though.Jedi2155 - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
It is cheaper to manufacture just like teng029 said. You get less wasted glass, because the glass is usually circular meaning the bigger rectangle from 16:10, you'll get more wasted material and fewer panels from a single piece.jecs - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I think, these high-end laptops are the best option only if you really need to travel or move too frequently and even a dedicated carry on would be a pain. I understand the need for this machines but they offer a reduced performance or some critical size compromises. I would go with the HP if the Dreamcolor and a decent performance are required. But the Clevo is the monster option on specific apps.A consideration I would do is having a SFF PC as it would be "easy" to transport on a carry on and it will cost you 2 or 3K less. I builded one Shuttle PC with a Quad-core and a single slot Quadro a few years ago. Today there are more options and very powerful too as the same 990x and a dual slot Quadro are real options on SFF PCs. I know the monitor needs to fit inside the carry on and in my case a Wacom tablet too. But I did it and it is a good choice if you need to move for maybe a few days or more on one location. Also I included a Mac Book Pro.
Finally, if I ever do need a laptop in this class I guess I would also consider a tablet to read the internet.
sjprg2 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
On May 13th I ordered the 8760W with all the goodies and specified dual Intel 510 240GB SSDs installed in raid 0. (Note these are 6GB sata). Delivery estimate was approx three weeks. About 3 months later I finally get delivery (August 10 th) and on inspection I find that Instead of the Intel 510 SSDs I ordered it had obselete Micron (no longer in Microns database) 3 GB SSDs.After severel days of going round and around the support chain from the Philipines to Mexico and talking to at least 6 Managers the bottom line from HP is TOUGH. You can send it back to us and we will evaluate it or live with it. After a three month delay in shipping with new shipping dates every other day which really screwed up my client scheduling they wanted it back. They flatout refused to send me the correct drives and accept the wrong ones in return. They all quoted "policy", and not one of them would move me up the chain of command to authorise any change.
Bottom line is that while the 8760W is a beautiful piece of machinery and does Panoramics as fast as my I920 OC desktop I still feel that they did a bait and switch on the SSDs.
After the dozens of HP laptops I have recommend to my clients this is the last. NO MORE!
HMTK - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Where did you buy that laptop? If our dealers deliver something wrong we just send it back and do not pay. If there is no delivery date we look somewhere else. We have several dealers and they know we have the option of switching so they do their best if something goes wrong.aranyagag - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
yeah I was planning to get a 17" DTR with sandybridge-- all was fine and dandy till I Got to the specifications for the screen. Sorry, but I want a 1200p screen. even when I watch videos-- which is rare because I prefer to watch on home theater and use my laptop for work-- I PREFER to have space above/below the screen for the menu bar.Well, I am waiting for the 1200p screens to return and if they don't -- I will eventually settle for a 15.6" 1080p screen. I just am not buying a 17" or larger laptop with only 1080p screen.
oshogg - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
17" is a little too big for my taste - I would appreciate a similar in-depth review (great job on this one by the way!) for HP 8560w. Specifically, I am interested in knowing that Quadro 1000M is any less taxing on battery than the one in 8760w.Thanks,
Osho
teng029 - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
certainly a much better design than Dell's current Latitude line. i've tried carrying a 17.3 inch notebook before and didn't particularly care for it. and like so many other posters have mentioned, i still prefer 16x10 panels.Spazweasel - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
As always, computers of this class are something your employer buys you. Individuals are not likely to pay for items like this, but organizations whose cost-accounting recognizes that the hardware is a small fraction of the cost of maintaining an employee are not going to be put off by a thousand dollar premium. Compared to the software packages that enterprises use, the amortized cost of support and infrastructure, and the salaries of the people that use them, six thousand in hardware is chump change.Buy this one with someone else's money, not your own, and you (and they) get the value expected for something this expensive.
jecs - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Thank you, That was what I had in mind for years, but still something I wanted to check over time. I worked for BP years ago and sure they provided fancy hardware and software even for contractors. I remember a Silicon Graphics computer on a corner and it was only used for an advanced student on one study. Today this HP laptop is way too superior but computing requirements may also increase with time.Death666Angel - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
I really don't see how the desktop space has somehow "lost" 30" monitors almost entirely. From my experience over the past years, the 30" crowd has been very stable. The 27" high-res didn't destroy anything and gave people a cheap middle ground between cheap 24" 1200p and overpriced 1600p 30" monitors. I think 27" 2560x1440 has been about the only positive development in the desktop monitor market for a long time, partially making up for the move to 1080p in the 21"-27" market.I personally hope the tablet/smartphone display development with high densities will transfer to the desktop market soon.
Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
From a conversation with my associate, Brian Klug (who handles our monitor reviews), 30" screens are being phased out of production entirely.zaccun - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Thank god I've already got one then- That almost makes me want to save up and buy a couple more to hoard :<DanNeely - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Gah!!! Like zaccun I'm tempted to go after a spare. If the replacement was 2844x1600 I could probably live with the aspect ratio reduction, but for anything resembling work vertical size is more important than width.Death666Angel - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Ah, haven't heard anything like that on my regular computer news sites. And I haven't noticed any increase in prices with 30" screens. But I'll keep an eye out for that now. :-)Still, even with them being phased out, I will not pay 1000-1100€ for a 30" 2560x1600 screen when I get a 27" 2560x1440 for 600-650€. The added value for me just isn't there.
Unless I will have a lot of spare money soon I'll try and wait until the pixel density goes to tablet/smartphone levels or at least gets closer to them. :-)
Death666Angel - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
You guys really need an edit button ;) at least for a few minutes. I forgot to say thanks for the reply!DanNeely - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Got a question for Brian, why are the manufacturers phasing them out less than a year after launching new models? I'd assumed that the 2011 models would be around for at least a few years like their 07/08 ancestors were.JarredWalton - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
I think it's mostly that the manufacturers aren't going to be making any new versions of their 30" panels. Heck, HP has been selling the LP3065 for a very long time, and while it's a great 30" panel, the lack of any improvements over a 4 year span is pretty shocking. Now, they're figuring they can make a 27" LCD and sell it for nearly the same price, and get more of them per glass substrate.Death666Angel - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
<<Now, they're figuring they can make a 27" LCD and sell it for nearly the same price, and get more of them per glass substrate. >>I really don't see that idea taking off.
Sure, with professional monitors the class of Eizo and NEC which are used in business environments, it can work as price is only a small fraction of the consideration (although especially business environments with the need for big software will likely still want the 16:10 aspect ratio).
But I doubt anyone in their right mind will take to the idea of paying the same price for 27" monitors that you used to pay for 30" monitors. With the switch from 16:10 to 16:9 in the 21"-27" scene, at least you also got decreased prices across the board.
DanNeely - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
HP has replaced the LP3065 with the ZR30w earlier this year. With the 30" model being a top end item aimed primarily at business customers; not the consumer market several years between new revisions doesn't strike me as a major problem.Truth be told, I wasn't expecting new models for a few years and suspect the impetus will either be LED backlights finally surpassing the best CCFL backlights in color accuracy and stability, or when the hardware driving the panels becomes capable of running at 120hz for 3d support. LED backlighting is what I'm hoping to hold out for before replacing my 3090. My desktop is more of a space heater, but I'd still like to be able to drop ~50-75W from my main screen.
KPOM - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
While these desktop-replacement EliteBook monsters are nice for their raw power, I think they are a bit off the mark for the average enterprise buyer. A large company looking to outfit a workforce of consultants or traveling salespeople with notebooks might keep their employees happier with smaller and lighter notebooks.Will HP be producing any ultrabooks under the EliteBook brand? I don't need a quad-core i7 to run Outlook, PowerPoint, or Excel, but a .8" thick, 3 lb notebook with a nice 1440x900 screen would be just perfect.
Dustin Sklavos - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
A lot of people don't realize the value of a desktop-replacement monster like this one. I used to decry 17" notebooks just like most of you do, but ever since I graduated college I've found that a 17" notebook can actually be practically ideal for travelling. When I was at CES I set my Studio 17 up in the hotel room to get serious work done, and then brought my ThinkPad X100e with me in the field.There are circumstances where an 8760w would be ideal; as a business machine, the user could easily carry his or her work to and from home. Most of their travel time would likely be commuting to and from work on a daily basis, and that makes the notebook's weight largely irrelevant.
Belard - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Not even Apple makes a .8" thick notebook. Keep in mind, super-thin notebooks are:(A) not usually the fastest options
(B) Very very few ports
(C) More breakable
(D) Less screen options.
The ThinkPad X1 is 1" thick, 3.7 lbs, 13" screen @ 1366x768, gorilla glass, lighte-up keyboard. Can come with Core i5 or i7 CPU, 4 or 8 GB RAM, HD or SSD, Optional broadband card. Issues: noisy fan and the keyboard gets warm, short battery time. Starts at $1300 (NO DVD-RW Drive)
The ThinkPad X220 is also 1" thick (Looks thicker than the X1), 3.0lbs, 12.5" screen @ 1366x768. Has a normal keyboard, almost silent, i5 or i7 CPUs. No glare screen. Starts at $900. (NO DVD-RW Drive)
ThinkPad T420s is the closest spec. 1" thick, 14" screen at 1600x900 (Remember, 16:10 is dead - those bastards!), i5 CPU, 4~8GB RAM. But its 3.9lbs.
Starts at $1,150.
I personally prefer the T420 (non S) because its $250 cheaper, but its thicker and heavier.
Whenever I order ThinkPads for my clients or friends, I usually get them in 10 days or less. Not 2-3 months.
KPOM - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
I'm typing this response on my .68" thick Apple notebook, complete with a Core i7 processor. No, it isn't as fast as the 8760, but it's quick enough for about 90% of traveling professionals. I raised the question since the EliteBook line is well-made and specifically targeted at enterprises. Thus, if there will be an EliteBook Ultrabook, it will likely be something that large companies notice.Belard - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Okay... I am in COMPLETE agreement Dustin Sklavos about the computer industry's stupid desire for 16:9. Yes, its fine for HD-Movies, etc. but for computer usage, I want my 120 pixeld back!During the transition to 16:9 with Lenovo. Here is how BAD 16:9 is... I buy/order ThinkPad for friends and clients. I compared a new ThinkPad T14 with a 16:10 vs a ThinkPad with a 15" 16:9. Both had the same vertical resolution. Both monitors were the exact same height.
When working with small screens... it just makes the screen feel smaller, more cramped! (*@&$#$@ Drop the 1080 for bloody business computers! I'll be keeping my OLD 24" 1920x1600 monitor for as long as possible! I'm GLAD to see 27" monitors hitting the market with 2550x1440... but I'd really WANT to see a 27~28" with 2560x1600 instead. Such monitors are already OUT OF HD-SPEC anyway... so why stick with STUPID 16:9....? Oh yeah, it costs LESS to make a 16:9 vs 16:10... as as wide screens are cheaper than 4:3 monitors (Which are still nice). But at 30" and $1200 - these have to sit WAY back and suck up way too much desk space. We're still looking at $1000 for such a 27". *sigh*
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$6500 for this notebook? Okay, its more workstation than business notebook - right? With LOUD fans and chicklet keyboard, it should be far cheaper. That standard HP keyboard is HORRIBLE, tiny UP/Down cursor keys? (Only backlit ThinkPad keys are also island style, but with some slight curve).
ThinkPads don't come in 17" anymore (or at this moment). Not much desire for such screens, especially when 15.6" 1920x1080 screens is almost as big as a 17.3".
For $3045, I custom built a ThinkPad W520 (Workstation Series).
Same i7-2820QM CPU, 8GB RAM. Has a 1920x1080 FHD screen (these look very nice, but I doubt as good as on this HP). Quadro 2000M with 2GB. This is usually half to a third slower than the Quadro 5000 series.
160GB intel SSD (320 series) drive (better than that crap Micron drive) - but its easy to simply save $320 to go with a regular HDD and buy an aftermarket Intel 510 series 250GB unit.
This config includes BlueTooth 3.0 / Centrino 6300N (if you you're going to upgrade beyond the basic... might as well go all the way), Mobile Broadband with GPS. 3 year on-site warranty with Damage protection.
This weighs about 5lbs, far better keyboard, better touch pad. Meanwhile HP double-copies ThinkPad's 3-button touchpad design as well as the mouse-stick in the middle of the keyboard (Might as well just get a ThinkPad). Battery life is about 4 hours with general usage. The HP has about a 1~2hr running time? This is almost useless for business!
I've setup an X220 (13" screen), it has about a 5~6hr battery life (optional big battery lasts about 10~20hrs), barely 3lbs, 1" thick with an i5 CPU.
Most of these ThinkPads are very quiet. The T and W series are very quiet. Bigger X series as well, not the X1 - way too thin with bad cooling.
For $6500... this notebook needs to offer a lot more. Is this HP trying look like Apple?
Belard - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Thought Apple sold the most expensive computers? A MacPro 17" notebook WITH 1920x1200, same quad CPU and 8GB RAM and 250GB SSD is $3500. It doesn't have internal Mobile Broadband options (why?)... but looks better and cheaper than HP... with the money saved, spend $1000 for the 27" 2550x1440 monitor.Dustin Sklavos - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Except the MacBook Pro doesn't have Quadro workstation graphics or the high gamut DreamColor monitor. If you have need of those (which is admittedly a large part of what this is for), a Mac isn't going to cut it.jecs - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
I agree in part, Apple doesn't sell the most expensive or cheap computers. And to my understanding and direct experience Apple provides an intermediate professional grade driver support (when the app is available on OSX). Apple wont get you 4X full screen antialiasing but some aliasing however, they don't provide full support or some fancy features as 3D stereo, but absolutely professional work is way better on Apple computers with consumer hardware than in a consumer grade equivalent on a PC. Again, an intermediate and limited solution not an advance one. Lets remember GPU consumer hardware is very similar and even equivalent to pro GPUs. But today not the same.But for this review my conclusion is this $6500 HP with the Dreamcolor and Quadro 5000 is only justifiable for critical content creation. Not even for demanding CAD/CAM visualizations because those fields wont require such color accuracy and could get away with a decent and way cheaper LCD. For industrial design the fast CPU and powerful GPU never is enough. But why the Dreamcolor? if any IPS monitor with way less accuracy will do?
And even for content creation not everybody needs a Dreamcolor as even most experienced users working in content creation does not require or even could distinguish critical color corrections.
As a matter of fact very few professionals need such color accuracy. Only for final color correction on video, video games, animation, or final product visualization as in the car industry, but this could be also be considered video pre or post production.
The Dreamcolor brand from HP was specifically created for Sony Pictures 3D animation (?) in 2008. Correct me if I am wrong.
For final color correction in video post processing using Scratch I can see this machine as a way to present the client the final product, and even for some critical last minute color correction.
Who else, please?
Death666Angel - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Where did you get a 1920x1600 monitor? That's 12:10 / 6:5 ratio, never heard of that. :-)As for the 27" vs. 30" argument, I agree that desktop monitor density has to pick up, because it's really not moving that fast compared to normal desktop computing hardware or mobile display densities. But I do wonder where you get your numbers from comparing 30" to 27" 2560*1xxx. Here in Germany the cheap consumer 30" options (Dell, HP, LG) start at 1050€ and go to 1200€ (Apple Cinema HD is an outrageous 1799,-€), while the 27" models come in at 600€ and go to 700€ (Dell, Fujitsu, Samsung) and there is even a new entry who used to only ship within the UK who sells one 2560x1440 monitor for 500€ and one for 580€, though I don't know if the quality is comparable to the others. :-)
So for you the 30" models are 20% more expensive than the 27" options (1200$ vs 1000$) while for me the 30" monitors are 75% more expensive than the 27" options (1050€ vs 600€). If that is the case, you guys are being ripped off!
DanNeely - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Checking Dell's website the 3011 is $1499, the 2711 is $1099 at list prices. Dells older 30" models were several hundred cheaper and the 3011 goes on sale at 25% off once or twice a year. I'm not aware of the 2711 ever having done the same.I think the only way to get prices that close $1200 vs $1000 are to compare current vs last generation models or sale vs not sale prices.
kallogan - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
I don't see the point in buying a premium priced Core i7-2820QM. The rather cheap core i7 2630QM performs almost as well in most cases.sjprg2 - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
The 8760W circle jerk was ordered directly from HP's SMB order desk. I ran into incomptence, buckpassing, and stonewalling at all levels I was able to contact. I have retained about 25 pages of documentation and emails pertaining to this order. Someday I might be able to reach someone in HP that has the cajones to solve the problem. I sure miss the days when Officers of HP were reachable.dagamer34 - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Why can trackpads be centered?!?!?EdShift - Thursday, September 22, 2011 - link
This is a great question.I guess the answer lies in the cost associated with having to produce left and right hand models. In the userspace this model targets there is likely to be higher than general population mean left handers given the creative nature of content creation and it's propensity to appeal to more right brain dominant thinkers.
For most laptops though it would probably be a winner to move the trackpad to favour the majority.
Interestingly if you look at the trackpad on 6740 it's central only to the qwerty keyboard and not the number pad. I guess it's to reduce the travel time between keys and trackpad.
Clever ergonomics.
I'm assuming English isn't your first language so if I've misunderstood your point I'm sorry.
sjprg2 - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
This portable workstation is a monster. I looked at Cleveos and decided the companies that supply them were too small and unknown to send them a $6000.00 wire transfer, and that HP would be safer, seeing as how HP also wanted the order prepaid. WRONG! My uses for this is usually in a small motel room at the end of a long day shooting landscapes with a high end DSLR and the raw images are initialy processed into TIFs with DXO and doing any finishing touches with Photoshop CS5.5. Battery life is unimportant in this case. 1 hour would be fine for me. Would I like a bigger screen? YES! but this one is liviable. I'm hoping that Ivy Bridge will be interchangable next year for an upgrade to the Ivy Bridge 2920 equivalente. I have to say I am happy with the unit so far other than the screwup on the SSDs. I only ordered 16 GB of memory as the 32 GB is extremely exorbinant. About the smallest prints I have made are 24X36 with most going to 36X48.slb14 - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Crack. It's what one would have to smoke to spend over $6k on a laptop.I don't care if it's fast, light, and washes my cats. That's just hilarious.
sjprg2 - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Its a business tool. 4 sales of my landscapes and its paid for.digitalzombie - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Yeah, i think 14-14.5 is the sweet spot for me. Gimme one with IPS and I'll be happy. Is HP build quality getting better? Cause they bought compaq and compaq was horrible at least for me.JarredWalton - Friday, August 26, 2011 - link
Sorry Jecs... you replied to a spammer post (the web address in the link was one of those stupid fashion-related spamming sites we've had lately). I've removed the account (only4customer) but here's you response to his post:-----------
Desktop monitors are on another class of color accuracy, color depth, screen uniformity, gamut, black or white levels, grays, contrast, almost everything. But I can't remember right now where I read the review. It is directly related to the stronger backlighting technology or possibilities on desktop monitors. Desktop monitors even include very powerful graphic cards and circuits with dedicated chips and memory for internal 16 bit per channel signal processing. This is very difficult to solve inside the limited space laptops provides.
To my experience the best laptop monitors are clearly inferior to the best desktops if you have both screens directly available in the same room with the same source side by side.
However this Dreamcolor HP screen may be the best mobile screen in the market right now and I guess it could even give some cheaper IPS desktop monitors a circle or 2.
jecs - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
uups!Ok, Thanks
cbass64 - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
Isn't the C300 6Gbps?SteveLord - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
You can customize these for less than half of that $6k tag............SteveLord - Saturday, August 27, 2011 - link
I actually bought one of these at work, with the Dreamcolor screen too. It is the best looking laptop screen I've seen and maintains the top quality that their Dreamcolor monitors have (I have one of those too.)Unlike probably most of the people here, I've also had the 2 previous generations of these Elitebooks and this is a huge improvement.
extremepcs - Monday, August 29, 2011 - link
$6,500 for a laptop? There isn't enough crack on the planet...yorty - Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - link
so cool!Processor Intel Core i7-2820QM
(4x2.3GHz, 32nm, 8MB L3, Turbo to 3.4GHz, 45W)
Chipset Intel QM67
Memory 4x4GB Samsung DDR3-1333 (Max 4x8GB)
Graphics NVIDIA Quadro 5010M 4GB GDDR5
(384 CUDA cores, 450MHz/900MHz/2.6GHz core/shader/memory clocks, 256-bit memory bus)
It's very cool. if the graphics is GTX 590.it will be a powerful notebook.
play games, listen music,have a nice browse internet, it........just amazing!`
gigagiga - Saturday, September 10, 2011 - link
Just got one for my work with i7-2360QM 2GHz 8GB RAM 64 bit, AMD Firepro M5950 Mobility Pro graphicsIt was a quick order, because I was told it had the specs I needed for engineering software I use that is a CPU hog. But so far, I'm not exactly thrilled with it.
Its definitely better than what I had to work with before, ie it dramatically speeds up processing time on a program that runs wireless network predictions that used to take several hours---this laptop has cut processing time down dramatically.
But out of the box, the touchpad mouse didnt work. No big deal, but really annoying. Had to do a BIOs update, unistalled the driver. Driver actually seemed to make it work worse. On the plus side, I think the fan is relatively quiet. Surprisingly so. Heavy computer, which is to be expected
Color is strange on this laptop. It apparently has HP Dreamcolor, which must mean "bright garish color". The red is almost blinding, and on the program I use most, the green shades blend, whereas on my old HP laptop, no problems. Have tried to figure out how to calibrate color, but it doesnt seem to make much difference. Most trouble Ive had with a computer out of the box since getting one with Vista.
That said, I guess I should have looked more closely and gotten something with more powerful processor? The main program I run still maxes out this CPU for most of the time its running my predictions (which can be hours at a time), and just doesnt give me the lighnting fast processing that I was hoping for.
But I know enough to be dangerous about processors--- maybe its a really good one and this is the best I could expect for under $3K? Any suggestions appreciated.
EdShift - Thursday, September 22, 2011 - link
If you absolutely must have a portable it's the best available but if not something with dual high-end Xeons is probably going to more likely to provide the grunt you need for high end engineering type apps like FEA software etc. I've moved today from an older generation workstation with dual Xeons (HP XW8400) to one of these laptops and it's definitely faster except on disk I/O performance but I moved because I needed a portable.I've no doubt that the new Workstations I see under the desks of the FEA guys are an order of magnitude faster for these tasks.
Timp74 - Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - link
I bought a 8760w(exact model is ) about 4 months ago. The motherboard failed after 2 days.Was sent for repair but came back with a problem with the fan. Was sent for repair again. Came back unfixed but with a dead pixel. HP sent an engineer to replace the screen. Engineer arrive with a mother board for a completely different laptop. 2nd engineer came and fix the screen. Hurrah!, but still problem with the fan always running. HP took laptop to be 'analysed' 3 weeks ago. Have heard nothing since. Despite asking a few times HP support has been unable to even give a status update. Don't know what's going to happen next but I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS LAPTOP and I THINK HP's 'Total Care' IS A JOKE!! Buy a Dell, Lenovo or Mac instead.
It's frustrating enough that the laptop has problems. That HP seem unable to fix it has left me feeling I've been completely ripped off. Don't expect anything special from HP for buying their top of the line model. Clearly to their support operators it is more important that they tick boxes that try and help the customer.