Highly looking forward to this review. Apart from the comprehenisve tests AT will put it through, some overview of the software will also be very useful.
This makes me somewhat hopeful that the Pre 3 with a faster (1.4 GHz?) processor can deliver some seriously competitive performance.
I'm currently on an iPhone 3g and looking to upgrade this Summer and like what I've seen of WebOS. I hope HP can continue to update and upgrade the OS to match and even exceed the areas currently lacking compared to iOS and Android. If WebOS ends up faltering and failing I think it will be a real loss to everyone since there are a lot of interesting ideas and features in WebOS.
I'm thinking the same thing, at 1.4 GHz MSM8x55 could definitely feel compellingly speedy in the Pre 3. As much as this launch confuses me by starting with the scaled down/smaller version of the phone preceding the flagship Pre 3 launch, it definitely has made me a bit more enthusiastic for the Pre 3 and rest of the WebOS lineup.
I think this is essentially the GSM version of the chip that's in the Droid Incredible 2 - just downclocked by 200MHz. I have the first Droid Incredible, and I'd trade 200MHz of CPU clockspeed for a faster GPU.
I don't think that I am the target market for this phone, but the lack of those two features would be the deal breaker for me. I have three touchstones in various places for my Palm Pre Plus (thank you amazon for having such a good deal on them) but it still is nice to be able to use a friend's charger if I'm riding around in a car or am without my own charger. Also, I enjoy picking out a good set of headphones and listening to podcasts and music on my phone. Maybe keeping track of the adapters would not be difficult, but I do tend to lose track of these things and the downside is that these will not be readily available at a local store for a reasonable price.
That said I'm happy to hear the oreo effect has been remedied and look forward to seeing the Pre 3.
I'm appaled by this. I was looking forward to buying a Veer. I just hate the huge size of current touch phones and this was ideally sized for my tastes. The lack of these two standard ports is a total showstopper for me.
I also think it's too thick, 15.1mm (0.59 in) according to wikipedia. That's almost twice as thick as the new Samsung Galaxy S2 and quite a bit more than my HTC Desire. Thickness is quite important IMHO when it comes to carrying it in your pocket. My HTC Desire is relatively big (3.7" screen) but it's thin enough for that to rarely be a problem.
I have no numbers on this, but I'm pretty sure most smartphones sold are without a physical keyboard. I'm very surprised they haven't launched a model without a physcial keyboard. I think a lot of people simply will not consider a smartphone with a physical keyboard. I'm one of them.
They include an adapter so it's probably fine for EU. They should start selling it here any time. You can charge the phone through the USB. You can use 3.5mm headphones with the included adapter. Apple does fine with their proprietary connector here so. Neither is there anybody forcing them to use MicroUSB directly or indirectly.
Here's a product that's technically interesting, a quality that always appeals to AT readers. But is the world looking for a smartphone with a tiny 320x400 pixel screen?
I suspect that like the smoothly rounded stone it resembles it'll sink with barely a ripple under the water of the smartphone market at large.
There are three cell phone market segments: - Plain ol' cell phones. You call me, I call you, that's it. - Feature phones Keyboard, possibly a few other amenities, no web or email. - Smartphones. Capable processors, reasonable amounts of onboard storage, web, email and apps.
The Veer is far more than a feature phone, but far less functional (tiny screen, etc.) than mainstream smartphones. It has a browser and email, can presumably run WebOS apps. We don't know how much memory it has, but there's a reasonably speedy single-core processor.
The Veer is clearly not a mere feature phone, but equally it's a lesser creation than other smartphones. So does the Veer fit into a narrow band at the lower end of the smartphone, a band that nobody else seems to think exists?
Performance appears to be quite good, but performance in the service of what? It doesn't matter how fast the Veer's 4G serves me up a web page, at 320x400 I don't care. Same for email. On the other hand you're not going to buy a Veer just for texting.
Within reasonable bounds the Veer's price doesn't matter all that much. By now we all know that handset price is the least part of a smartphone's total cost of ownership.
Perhaps I just don't get it, but I'm afraid that not many other people will either. Who is the Veer aimed at?
Since you have to pay for the data anyway, why not get the biggest, fastest phone available? Yeah, I get that, but maybe you don't want to tote around a giant contraption in your pocket, but you want to check your email? You can call it whatever you want, feature or smartphone or whatever, it doesn't change what it does; which is offering a better feature phone experience while fitting nicely into a pocket. If you are wondering who this is aimed at, I think you need look no further than that.
First of all, regarding your 1st phone category, I don't have your number to call you :-P
secondly, Veer's screen is small, BUT unlike the keyboardless counterparts you people seem to compare it with, it's not 'waisted' by an on screen keyboard when you type things (probably do that more often in WebOS that other OSs, due to JustType™). I think the keyboard is kind of a must for something like the Veer.
I'm actually excited about the Veer. Seems to compare to the iPhone 4 (at least with its original iOS version) in terms of performance, which is very impressive. From what I've seen, it feels mega smooth and I really like its form factor. Also WebOS is the best mobile platform in my opinion and if HP manages to bring it to the PC, as they are saying, it will have bright feature.
It's an exciting business or prosumer oriented device according to my taste any way, it's faster then last gen Android phones, it's faster then budget Android phones, fills all the business needs well and is enough consumer oriented for me to say run Spotify on it. For those where entertainment is not the top of the priority list it is a good device I guess. But it's still plenty fast for games and all other entertainment stuff.
If you like a bigger screen there is always the Pre 3, but there is still a place for smaller devices. Certainly the combination of Veer, Pre 3 and TouchPad should find a place in business at least, and many consumers too. Certainly is something quite unique to them. They pretty much already has got the look and feel for those devices, got a decent software stack to build from. The touchstone charger is nice feature for work and home too. We shouldn't be kidding ourself that a smart device can last forever on a charge. Certainly not if it sees any use. HP has got a chance here to make something good out of all this.
The problem, even if its priced low enough, is that they are also selling you a $79-$99 per month plan with it. If someone could launch a low end smart phone, and sell you a low end voice/data plan to go with it, then these things could sell. The only option right now for such a plan is going with prepaid (e.g. virginmobile) and paying full price for the phone.
I agree that if I'm paying crazy money for a data contract I'm going to get the largest, fastest phone I can get and its got to have the ability to hack & free tether as well. My OG Sprint Pre could free tether but I don't know on WebOS 2 if that will happen again.
Has HP indicated whether or not their future webOS phones will come to Sprint? I refuse to switch to AT&T with their higher monthly usage fees and data caps.
If only an Android phone with a portrait slideout keyboard would come out. I used to have a Palm Treo and loved the physical keyboard. The phone otherwise sucked for anything other than talking or texting.
I just refuse to get a phone with an OS that's lacking a decent app store. Maybe HP will admit WebOS is a lost cause and go to Android.
It's a little dated, but the Motorola Droid 2 has an excellent physical keyboard. You can actually get one for free with a new contract from Verizon.
Mine is flashed with Liberty ROM 2.0 and overclocked to 1.45Ghz when fully charged (under-clocked to 400mhz when <25% charge). It's an excellent phone once liberated from motoblur.
good review. precentral did a comprehensive review and all in all the veer makes a good showing. I still like my pre+ OC'd @ 1ghz runs great, still waiting for pre 3 or stingray (crossing fingers) http://www.precentral.net/keyboard-less-webos-phon...
That speed is about what I'm seeing on my EVO while employing 4g. However I did see 10.5 mbps last night! I find that while I'm tethered up to my iPad, videos stream pretty well at between 2 and 4 mbps.
Thanks for the investigation and write up on the HSPA+ stuff Brian!
I was wondering if you had a list of the supported Rel. 7 features of the Qualcomm and SE chips in the Atrix, Inspire, and Infuse. Stuff like CPC, enhanced Cell_FACH/PCH, Voice over HSPA (as Qualcomm puts it), DL interference cancellation and whatever else.
Also does the Infuse 4g have the same chip in the new Galaxy S2s?
There is also the flat IP architecture that comes into play with HSPA+ that allows for data to by pass certain parts of the infrastructure for more direct routing. T-mobile's HSPA+ has shown some impressive latency results that *could* be a result of that. AT&T isn't quite down there with T-Mobile yet but interestingly I've seen a couple wiffs of lower latency in a market here and there....just something else to keep an eye out for.
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mythun.chandra - Monday, May 9, 2011 - link
Nice overview Brian! Waiting for the full review before I go grab one :-)codedivine - Monday, May 9, 2011 - link
Highly looking forward to this review. Apart from the comprehenisve tests AT will put it through, some overview of the software will also be very useful.alphacheez - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
This makes me somewhat hopeful that the Pre 3 with a faster (1.4 GHz?) processor can deliver some seriously competitive performance.I'm currently on an iPhone 3g and looking to upgrade this Summer and like what I've seen of WebOS. I hope HP can continue to update and upgrade the OS to match and even exceed the areas currently lacking compared to iOS and Android. If WebOS ends up faltering and failing I think it will be a real loss to everyone since there are a lot of interesting ideas and features in WebOS.
Brian Klug - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
I'm thinking the same thing, at 1.4 GHz MSM8x55 could definitely feel compellingly speedy in the Pre 3. As much as this launch confuses me by starting with the scaled down/smaller version of the phone preceding the flagship Pre 3 launch, it definitely has made me a bit more enthusiastic for the Pre 3 and rest of the WebOS lineup.-Brian
nafhan - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
I think this is essentially the GSM version of the chip that's in the Droid Incredible 2 - just downclocked by 200MHz. I have the first Droid Incredible, and I'd trade 200MHz of CPU clockspeed for a faster GPU.ChuckDriver - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
I don't think that I am the target market for this phone, but the lack of those two features would be the deal breaker for me. I have three touchstones in various places for my Palm Pre Plus (thank you amazon for having such a good deal on them) but it still is nice to be able to use a friend's charger if I'm riding around in a car or am without my own charger. Also, I enjoy picking out a good set of headphones and listening to podcasts and music on my phone. Maybe keeping track of the adapters would not be difficult, but I do tend to lose track of these things and the downside is that these will not be readily available at a local store for a reasonable price.That said I'm happy to hear the oreo effect has been remedied and look forward to seeing the Pre 3.
sicofante - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - link
I'm appaled by this. I was looking forward to buying a Veer. I just hate the huge size of current touch phones and this was ideally sized for my tastes. The lack of these two standard ports is a total showstopper for me.Bye Veer. :-(
softdrinkviking - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
If this has decent viewing angles and is reasonably visable outside, I'll be in line for it.jramskov - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
"The only compromises the Veer does make as a result of its miniscule size are lack of a microUSB port and 3.5 mm audio jack,"I simply refuse to believe that they couldn't make room for a microUSB port instead of their proprietary charging solution.
No matter though, I doubt HP will have much succes with these either. Where is the model without a physical keyboard?
Johnmcl7 - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
The similarly tiny SE X10 Mini Pro packs in a 3.5mm jack, micro-USB and removable battery although it is deeper it packs a much better keyboard.John
jramskov - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
Well, hello HP, heard that Europe standardized on MicroUSB a year ago? http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/2009/06/10-com...I also think it's too thick, 15.1mm (0.59 in) according to wikipedia. That's almost twice as thick as the new Samsung Galaxy S2 and quite a bit more than my HTC Desire. Thickness is quite important IMHO when it comes to carrying it in your pocket. My HTC Desire is relatively big (3.7" screen) but it's thin enough for that to rarely be a problem.
I have no numbers on this, but I'm pretty sure most smartphones sold are without a physical keyboard. I'm very surprised they haven't launched a model without a physcial keyboard. I think a lot of people simply will not consider a smartphone with a physical keyboard. I'm one of them.
sicofante - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - link
Exactly. I also wonder how are they planning to sell this in Europe. No microUSB charger is not an option here, AFAIK.Maybe there's some hope and they're forced to make an European version with microUSB.
Penti - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - link
They include an adapter so it's probably fine for EU. They should start selling it here any time. You can charge the phone through the USB. You can use 3.5mm headphones with the included adapter. Apple does fine with their proprietary connector here so. Neither is there anybody forcing them to use MicroUSB directly or indirectly.NCM - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
Here's a product that's technically interesting, a quality that always appeals to AT readers. But is the world looking for a smartphone with a tiny 320x400 pixel screen?I suspect that like the smoothly rounded stone it resembles it'll sink with barely a ripple under the water of the smartphone market at large.
softdrinkviking - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
it's obviously not targeting the smartphone market.this phone is for people who want something pocketable that can check mail and consult the web in a pinch.
as long as it's priced accordingly, it should do fine.
NCM - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
There are three cell phone market segments:- Plain ol' cell phones. You call me, I call you, that's it.
- Feature phones Keyboard, possibly a few other amenities, no web or email.
- Smartphones. Capable processors, reasonable amounts of onboard storage, web, email and apps.
The Veer is far more than a feature phone, but far less functional (tiny screen, etc.) than mainstream smartphones. It has a browser and email, can presumably run WebOS apps. We don't know how much memory it has, but there's a reasonably speedy single-core processor.
The Veer is clearly not a mere feature phone, but equally it's a lesser creation than other smartphones. So does the Veer fit into a narrow band at the lower end of the smartphone, a band that nobody else seems to think exists?
Performance appears to be quite good, but performance in the service of what? It doesn't matter how fast the Veer's 4G serves me up a web page, at 320x400 I don't care. Same for email. On the other hand you're not going to buy a Veer just for texting.
Within reasonable bounds the Veer's price doesn't matter all that much. By now we all know that handset price is the least part of a smartphone's total cost of ownership.
Perhaps I just don't get it, but I'm afraid that not many other people will either. Who is the Veer aimed at?
softdrinkviking - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
Since you have to pay for the data anyway, why not get the biggest, fastest phone available?Yeah, I get that, but maybe you don't want to tote around a giant contraption in your pocket, but you want to check your email?
You can call it whatever you want, feature or smartphone or whatever, it doesn't change what it does; which is offering a better feature phone experience while fitting nicely into a pocket.
If you are wondering who this is aimed at, I think you need look no further than that.
ioannis - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
First of all, regarding your 1st phone category, I don't have your number to call you :-Psecondly, Veer's screen is small, BUT unlike the keyboardless counterparts you people seem to compare it with, it's not 'waisted' by an on screen keyboard when you type things (probably do that more often in WebOS that other OSs, due to JustType™). I think the keyboard is kind of a must for something like the Veer.
I'm actually excited about the Veer. Seems to compare to the iPhone 4 (at least with its original iOS version) in terms of performance, which is very impressive. From what I've seen, it feels mega smooth and I really like its form factor. Also WebOS is the best mobile platform in my opinion and if HP manages to bring it to the PC, as they are saying, it will have bright feature.
Penti - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - link
It's an exciting business or prosumer oriented device according to my taste any way, it's faster then last gen Android phones, it's faster then budget Android phones, fills all the business needs well and is enough consumer oriented for me to say run Spotify on it. For those where entertainment is not the top of the priority list it is a good device I guess. But it's still plenty fast for games and all other entertainment stuff.If you like a bigger screen there is always the Pre 3, but there is still a place for smaller devices. Certainly the combination of Veer, Pre 3 and TouchPad should find a place in business at least, and many consumers too. Certainly is something quite unique to them. They pretty much already has got the look and feel for those devices, got a decent software stack to build from. The touchstone charger is nice feature for work and home too. We shouldn't be kidding ourself that a smart device can last forever on a charge. Certainly not if it sees any use. HP has got a chance here to make something good out of all this.
Rocket321 - Thursday, May 19, 2011 - link
The problem, even if its priced low enough, is that they are also selling you a $79-$99 per month plan with it. If someone could launch a low end smart phone, and sell you a low end voice/data plan to go with it, then these things could sell. The only option right now for such a plan is going with prepaid (e.g. virginmobile) and paying full price for the phone.I agree that if I'm paying crazy money for a data contract I'm going to get the largest, fastest phone I can get and its got to have the ability to hack & free tether as well. My OG Sprint Pre could free tether but I don't know on WebOS 2 if that will happen again.
tviceman - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
Has HP indicated whether or not their future webOS phones will come to Sprint? I refuse to switch to AT&T with their higher monthly usage fees and data caps.KaRRiLLioN - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
If only an Android phone with a portrait slideout keyboard would come out. I used to have a Palm Treo and loved the physical keyboard. The phone otherwise sucked for anything other than talking or texting.I just refuse to get a phone with an OS that's lacking a decent app store. Maybe HP will admit WebOS is a lost cause and go to Android.
dcollins - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
It's a little dated, but the Motorola Droid 2 has an excellent physical keyboard. You can actually get one for free with a new contract from Verizon.Mine is flashed with Liberty ROM 2.0 and overclocked to 1.45Ghz when fully charged (under-clocked to 400mhz when <25% charge). It's an excellent phone once liberated from motoblur.
cptnjarhead - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
good review.precentral did a comprehensive review and all in all the veer makes a good showing.
I still like my pre+ OC'd @ 1ghz runs great, still waiting for pre 3 or stingray (crossing fingers)
http://www.precentral.net/keyboard-less-webos-phon...
Crono - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
The Veer looks like it borrowed its styling from the Kin One.wewter - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link
or from it's ancestor the pre ...considering the pre outdates the kin by almost a full year
google next time and don't waste our time.
worldbfree4me - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - link
That speed is about what I'm seeing on my EVO while employing 4g. However I did see 10.5 mbps last night! I find that while I'm tethered up to my iPad, videos stream pretty well at between 2 and 4 mbps.zephxiii - Thursday, May 12, 2011 - link
Thanks for the investigation and write up on the HSPA+ stuff Brian!I was wondering if you had a list of the supported Rel. 7 features of the Qualcomm and SE chips in the Atrix, Inspire, and Infuse. Stuff like CPC, enhanced Cell_FACH/PCH, Voice over HSPA (as Qualcomm puts it), DL interference cancellation and whatever else.
Also does the Infuse 4g have the same chip in the new Galaxy S2s?
There is also the flat IP architecture that comes into play with HSPA+ that allows for data to by pass certain parts of the infrastructure for more direct routing. T-mobile's HSPA+ has shown some impressive latency results that *could* be a result of that. AT&T isn't quite down there with T-Mobile yet but interestingly I've seen a couple wiffs of lower latency in a market here and there....just something else to keep an eye out for.
Thanks!