Nevertheless, I think this news is exciting. It may mean that we will see more graphically intense applications of these in devices that consumers interact with. Such as cash registers, car advertisements and such.
What the heck happened to MXM for laptops anyway? Was it ultimately the cooling requirements that made a daughterboard approach impossible or did it just turn out that no one cared?
IIRC a 3rd major problem with it was that the cooling hookup wasn't defined so that if you swapped MXM modules there was no guarantee that the main point of the heat sink would be aligned with the GPU. There was also the problem that you normally couldn't upgrade to a hotter GPU than your laptop originally shipped with since the cooling system wouldn't've been designed to handle anything above the actual GPUs TDP.
A bunch of laptops used MXM, but it was used to let notebook vendors offer different configurations, not for users to upgrade GPUs.
My Inspiron 9400 (E1705 in the US) used MXM for the GPU. It was theoretically possible for the user to swap the GPU, but in practice this was extremely expensive (even today the crappy five year old GPUs for the thing cost like $600) and difficult, so only the most advanced users ever even tried. Really, it was just a way for Dell to make a single notebook that had, if memory serves, three or four different GPU options.
With one of these I could, in theory, hook it up to my beagleboard or any other low power board AND use it(with the linux drivers and after patching the kernel) to run 3D intensive applications or things like realtime h.264 1080p processing+transcode(supported in some way by every AMD and nVidia GPU) and streaming on a system that would consume 40w at peak?
Where can I find more information about this? do they even sell those things to end users?
You'd have to go through AMD's distributors. Hooking it up might be difficult however, as it doesn't have any voltage regulation gear, and I'd imagine the BGA pinout is quite specific. A MXM module (which has VRMs and a standard interface) may be easier.
Hum, you can already do all that with ARM and MIPS SoCs with their built in video encoders and decoders so what is the point? With the Beagleboard too already. Just use the GPU or DSP, and the video hardware acceleration. Besides you got Quick Sync in Intel's embedded/mobile Sandy Bridge chips. Maybe 35W TDP isn't enough? Fusion APU/Ontario/Zacate also does encoding with gpu-acceleration.
The GPU/DSP encoders for arm are really bad, at least last time I tried.
Also I was talking in a general sense, I've been working in some applications that need a loot of GPU power for graphics and video, but not a lot of CPU power, that's why I thought of an ARM+ embedded AMD combo, and why sandy bridge is not really suited for my needs(dunno about Fusion).
After reading the responses I think It would be too much trouble to be worth it, but still it's a pity, if the price was right this could help a lot in the small market of really intensive GPU computing with no need for CPU other than basic OS management stuff.
I get why this would be interesting, but I too have a hard time to see that it is worth the trouble. AMD even exited the mobile gpu-market for that matter. So getting a platform like that (from a vendor) with a working SDK would be hard work. AMD won't supply it. I guess you could get a Sandy Bridge platform like something based on Celeron B810 to use very little power though. It would only cost pennies too pretty much. Much faster then AMD GPUs doing transcoding too. AMD GPUs aren't that magical when handling encoding.
And I guess most CE stuff does fine with the different vendors encoders and encoders built into the on die GPUs/DSPs for that matter. It's certianly enough for BD-players and STB'es any way. I guess some solution (on ARM/MIPS) should be able to handle above realtime high-bitrate H.264 encoding with the right software/drivers and conditions. Dunno if IVA2.2 from TI like the beagleboard uses would be fast enough for 1080p transcodes though. But software for that doesn't even come with the beagleboard any way so. And I guess the free codecs from TI is limited to 480p. Leveraging the DSP of course isn't the easiest. It's only intended to do up to 720p encodes any way. But there is newer gen chips around now. Maybe you could try a OMAP4 development board if you like to explore that. It's still a safer bet then to try turning an AMD GPU into doing that under GNU/Linux. Which would basically entail building a AMD Stream App which does the encodes and / or porting AMD's library for that. (Which I think they call AVT now). Also requiring the proprietary AMD drivers. Certainly wouldn't be impossible, but nothing you could do with open drivers any day. I however I think saw some work on doing Quick Sync transcodes in Linux. You at least got the decodes there. An AMD solution would entail proprietary drivers and X86 as of now to get running I think.
I have been waiting for this, on package RAM that is. So we can get away with bulky external chips or flawed memory shared systems. This looks like a decent solution with a decent amount of memory. Maybe not the fastest but definitely more useful then the E2400.
wow, that's a great news. embedded systems are the easy way to develop any thing anywhere. in fact, here in Egypt, we have the subsidiary of Intel, SysDSoft, the LTE monster living it up only with simple embedded systems
I was just wondering if there are any plans to review the Sapphire 5850 Xtreme, a re-release of 5850 that's faster, cooler and better overall. And it's only $150, $110 I saw some forums report. I thought that might be interesting for you to review. Thanks!
They've had these gpu and ram sandwiches for years, and two generations of thinkpads suffered from these detaching from the board or the ram detaching from the package. Manufacturers' continued insistence on using weak lead-free solder and tiny BGA packages just pave the way for more and more failures. I'd rather pay an extra $10 and 3MM in thickness for a locking socket and pins.
Oddly enough, the picture of slot machines shown is of some IGT I-Games, which are Intel i960-based, not x86-based. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960) Their AVP (Advanced Video Platform) machines are based on single-core mobile Celeron (earlier), mobile Sempron (later), or dual-core mobile Sempron (latest) processors, in desktop-like motherboards sized somewhere between micro and regular ATX. The earlier ones used AGP Radeon 9800s, later with an optional upgrade to a fanless HD 3000-series card. The newest ones use integrated Radeon graphics, or optionally a PCI-Express card (not sure which model).
I suppose I could see embedded video card designs used in slot machines eventually. Right now, most of them are using video integrated into the motherboard, or an add-on card (the newest Bally machines actually use fairly recent nVidia Quadros). Embedded, low power designs sure would help with heat issues. Fans on the Radeon 9800s get so caked with dust and cigarette smoke that they fail pretty regularly.
I (as well as many others out there) may be interested in this card for HTPC's! Low power profile, good enough for gaming, and paired with a Corei5 2500 processor would make quite some powerful system, on a very low footprint!
Smaller manufacturing also means the cost of these things aren't going to be that high. Graphics cards of AMD have always been affordable for what they can do!
Please, make this available for desktop solutions (with passive heatsinks if possible)!
This GPU will bring Mobile gaming 1 step closer to Desktop gaming, I cant wait to grap one laptop with this gpu. My only concern is that this gpu is 35 W. the one that i currently have is Mobility Radeon 5650 1 GB, and it runs really hot when i play Battle field 2 and Crysis 2 with Medium graphics. But its going to be amazing gpu for medical use. One thing is for sure that if manufacturers put this gpu with a quad core on laptops, then they are gonna need a brand new cooling solutions. In summary I love it !
A few emails by AMD tech support seem to indicate that this is the GPU inside the Wii U. I'd really love Anandtech to estimate how powerful the console is.
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tiquio - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
First time that I got the first post.Nevertheless, I think this news is exciting. It may mean that we will see more graphically intense applications of these in devices that consumers interact with. Such as cash registers, car advertisements and such.
B3an - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
"First time that I got the first post."Oh fucking grow up.
DigitalFreak - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
+1, though the good book says we should be kind to those less fortunate.JonnyDough - Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - link
I believe that you're both in need of more parental hugs in your very recent childhood.Griswold - Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - link
Well said.I Believe - Wednesday, May 4, 2011 - link
Agreedevilspoons - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
What the heck happened to MXM for laptops anyway? Was it ultimately the cooling requirements that made a daughterboard approach impossible or did it just turn out that no one cared?Mugur - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
No one cared... :-).therealnickdanger - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
Two reasons: too hard to buy replacement parts and way too expensive to upgrade. On top of that, it was more challenging to install.DanNeely - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
IIRC a 3rd major problem with it was that the cooling hookup wasn't defined so that if you swapped MXM modules there was no guarantee that the main point of the heat sink would be aligned with the GPU. There was also the problem that you normally couldn't upgrade to a hotter GPU than your laptop originally shipped with since the cooling system wouldn't've been designed to handle anything above the actual GPUs TDP.Guspaz - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
A bunch of laptops used MXM, but it was used to let notebook vendors offer different configurations, not for users to upgrade GPUs.My Inspiron 9400 (E1705 in the US) used MXM for the GPU. It was theoretically possible for the user to swap the GPU, but in practice this was extremely expensive (even today the crappy five year old GPUs for the thing cost like $600) and difficult, so only the most advanced users ever even tried. Really, it was just a way for Dell to make a single notebook that had, if memory serves, three or four different GPU options.
Gauner - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
So, let me see if I got this right:With one of these I could, in theory, hook it up to my beagleboard or any other low power board AND use it(with the linux drivers and after patching the kernel) to run 3D intensive applications or things like realtime h.264 1080p processing+transcode(supported in some way by every AMD and nVidia GPU) and streaming on a system that would consume 40w at peak?
Where can I find more information about this? do they even sell those things to end users?
Ryan Smith - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
You'd have to go through AMD's distributors. Hooking it up might be difficult however, as it doesn't have any voltage regulation gear, and I'd imagine the BGA pinout is quite specific. A MXM module (which has VRMs and a standard interface) may be easier.ncalipari - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
It's not that easy:- ATI fails to provide drivers for linux other than x86, so either you should use user contributed drivers or you give up using it on
- The power might be there.... but you need the bus. And a fast enough bus is very pricey.
- These components are not easily available in small quantities...
Penti - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
Hum, you can already do all that with ARM and MIPS SoCs with their built in video encoders and decoders so what is the point? With the Beagleboard too already. Just use the GPU or DSP, and the video hardware acceleration. Besides you got Quick Sync in Intel's embedded/mobile Sandy Bridge chips. Maybe 35W TDP isn't enough? Fusion APU/Ontario/Zacate also does encoding with gpu-acceleration.Gauner - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
The GPU/DSP encoders for arm are really bad, at least last time I tried.Also I was talking in a general sense, I've been working in some applications that need a loot of GPU power for graphics and video, but not a lot of CPU power, that's why I thought of an ARM+ embedded AMD combo, and why sandy bridge is not really suited for my needs(dunno about Fusion).
After reading the responses I think It would be too much trouble to be worth it, but still it's a pity, if the price was right this could help a lot in the small market of really intensive GPU computing with no need for CPU other than basic OS management stuff.
Penti - Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - link
I get why this would be interesting, but I too have a hard time to see that it is worth the trouble. AMD even exited the mobile gpu-market for that matter. So getting a platform like that (from a vendor) with a working SDK would be hard work. AMD won't supply it. I guess you could get a Sandy Bridge platform like something based on Celeron B810 to use very little power though. It would only cost pennies too pretty much. Much faster then AMD GPUs doing transcoding too. AMD GPUs aren't that magical when handling encoding.And I guess most CE stuff does fine with the different vendors encoders and encoders built into the on die GPUs/DSPs for that matter. It's certianly enough for BD-players and STB'es any way. I guess some solution (on ARM/MIPS) should be able to handle above realtime high-bitrate H.264 encoding with the right software/drivers and conditions. Dunno if IVA2.2 from TI like the beagleboard uses would be fast enough for 1080p transcodes though. But software for that doesn't even come with the beagleboard any way so. And I guess the free codecs from TI is limited to 480p. Leveraging the DSP of course isn't the easiest. It's only intended to do up to 720p encodes any way. But there is newer gen chips around now. Maybe you could try a OMAP4 development board if you like to explore that. It's still a safer bet then to try turning an AMD GPU into doing that under GNU/Linux. Which would basically entail building a AMD Stream App which does the encodes and / or porting AMD's library for that. (Which I think they call AVT now). Also requiring the proprietary AMD drivers. Certainly wouldn't be impossible, but nothing you could do with open drivers any day. I however I think saw some work on doing Quick Sync transcodes in Linux. You at least got the decodes there. An AMD solution would entail proprietary drivers and X86 as of now to get running I think.
Penti - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
I have been waiting for this, on package RAM that is. So we can get away with bulky external chips or flawed memory shared systems. This looks like a decent solution with a decent amount of memory. Maybe not the fastest but definitely more useful then the E2400.floobit - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
The data rate shown on the first page is inconsistent. In the table, it is listed as 800 Mhz, and in the paragraph below, it is listed as 900.ahmedz_1991 - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
wow, that's a great news. embedded systems are the easy way to develop any thing anywhere.in fact, here in Egypt, we have the subsidiary of Intel, SysDSoft, the LTE monster living it up only with simple embedded systems
G-Man - Monday, May 2, 2011 - link
RyanI was just wondering if there are any plans to review the Sapphire 5850 Xtreme, a re-release of 5850 that's faster, cooler and better overall. And it's only $150, $110 I saw some forums report. I thought that might be interesting for you to review. Thanks!
Pessimism - Thursday, May 5, 2011 - link
They've had these gpu and ram sandwiches for years, and two generations of thinkpads suffered from these detaching from the board or the ram detaching from the package. Manufacturers' continued insistence on using weak lead-free solder and tiny BGA packages just pave the way for more and more failures. I'd rather pay an extra $10 and 3MM in thickness for a locking socket and pins.Sangueffusor - Thursday, May 5, 2011 - link
Oddly enough, the picture of slot machines shown is of some IGT I-Games, which are Intel i960-based, not x86-based. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960) Their AVP (Advanced Video Platform) machines are based on single-core mobile Celeron (earlier), mobile Sempron (later), or dual-core mobile Sempron (latest) processors, in desktop-like motherboards sized somewhere between micro and regular ATX. The earlier ones used AGP Radeon 9800s, later with an optional upgrade to a fanless HD 3000-series card. The newest ones use integrated Radeon graphics, or optionally a PCI-Express card (not sure which model).I suppose I could see embedded video card designs used in slot machines eventually. Right now, most of them are using video integrated into the motherboard, or an add-on card (the newest Bally machines actually use fairly recent nVidia Quadros). Embedded, low power designs sure would help with heat issues. Fans on the Radeon 9800s get so caked with dust and cigarette smoke that they fail pretty regularly.
ProDigit - Friday, May 6, 2011 - link
I (as well as many others out there) may be interested in this card for HTPC's!Low power profile, good enough for gaming, and paired with a Corei5 2500 processor would make quite some powerful system, on a very low footprint!
Smaller manufacturing also means the cost of these things aren't going to be that high. Graphics cards of AMD have always been affordable for what they can do!
Please, make this available for desktop solutions (with passive heatsinks if possible)!
RenDroid - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - link
This GPU will bring Mobile gaming 1 step closer to Desktop gaming,I cant wait to grap one laptop with this gpu. My only concern is that this gpu is 35 W. the one that i currently have is Mobility Radeon 5650 1 GB, and it runs really hot when i play Battle field 2 and Crysis 2 with Medium graphics.
But its going to be amazing gpu for medical use. One thing is for sure that if manufacturers put this gpu with a quad core on laptops, then they are gonna need a brand new cooling solutions.
In summary I love it !
tipoo - Monday, September 24, 2012 - link
A few emails by AMD tech support seem to indicate that this is the GPU inside the Wii U. I'd really love Anandtech to estimate how powerful the console is.