Perhaps you would be interested in my current computer as a powerful Mini-ITX setup done right. I have a OC'd i7 785K with 2x4GB of ~1400MHz DDR3 on a H55N-USB3. The ATI Radeon 5770 is perhaps underpowered compared to the rest of the build but it fit the budget.
Most surprising was the 16K/14K/19K Read/Write/Copy performance I got from the RAM http://imgur.com/fEjj3.png . That bandwidth along with the CPU OC allows my rig to bench competitively with my friends 4Ghz i7 920.
Don't let one bad configuration spoil the Mini-ITX fun.
I'm planning to build a very similar mini-ITX gaming machine for about the same budget: - Lian-Li PC-Q08 case - Core i5-760 - Gigabyte or Zotac MB (GB has USB 3.0, Zotac USB 3.0 + wifi) - Intel 160GB SSD + 1TB green HD - ATI 5850/5770 (actually waiting to see if 6770 comes out this year) - 4GB DDR3 - Slim DVD (may drop as don't need) - 500W modular PSU - Windows 7 Home Premium
Total is about $1500. The case is much nicer looking than the Sugo and should be better for noise & heat, but then again it's also a fair chunk larger I believe. I think I'll take my proposed build over the AVADirect one, but it's nice to see custom built SFF gaming PC's starting to appear... I'm all for the bang-for-cm^3 concept!
This will be hooked up my living room TV, and probably mainly used for playing Civ 5 :)
"Meanwhile the pair of GTX 470's in the iBuyPower Paladin XLC blows everything away, much like the leafblower it sounds like under this kind of load." Looking at graphs makes some forget this 'noise' produced by the first fermi. The noise reminds me of a case fan I had on a heavily oc'd P4 that went by the name of 'tornado'. At the time I lived in an apartment and that fan was so loud the downstairs neighbor complained about the noise LOL! Noise yes, but man that thing could move some air (which one needed to do sometimes with stock P4's).
I have a GTX 470 SLI system, and while the cards are definitely louder than any previous cards I have had, I wouldn't exactly compare their sound to a leaf blower. Granted I'm using the proper spacing of the cards (2 empty slots between them), but they only make a low-pitched rumble when at load. I'd much rather have the noise of two 470's than the whine of the 60mm fan on the Radeon 9800 Pro I had a few systems ago. That fan was just plain annoying.
I have almost the same setup except with a 5770 and I run 160blk with no voltage increases and with turbo and c-states still enabled. It wasn't even much work. I just went 166 -> unstable 165 -> stable-ish 164-> runs fine back off a couple just to be safe -> 160 Probably took me but a whole 30mins.
I expect more from a system that's $1.5k+, since mine was under $700. I guess you do get a 750S vs regular 750.
I think your OCing is a bit discouraged, though. Even though there are failsafes these days, it's still advised to go from what works to what doesn't, when figuring out the proper setting; rather than going from what doesn't work, to what does.
True If I was starting from scratch, I'd go up 5mhz at a time, and then ease back for longterm stability. But in my case I knew from reading around, the ballpark where the OC should be at. So I skipped that first step. Plus, I wasn't altering any of the voltages. For a builder that's going to be making a bunch of these, I would think they could do that too.
Which is why I said the "old Shuttle SFFs". That said, my experience over the past five years is such that I would never buy anything with a Shuttle mobo. Every one of the test Shuttle SFFs died within three years of the review. :-\
Excellent timing on this article, as I've been interested in replacing my big ATX system with a Mini-ITX. I game very little and not above 1680x1050 res, never use my DVD drive, and don't need much HDD space, so I feel my current system and its size that hasn't changed since the 90's is simply overkill. I wanted even smaller than this AVADirect system, though, and was considering the Silverstone Sugo SG05 with the PSU it comes with, a Gigabyte board, and whatever video card I could fit. However I think it would be better to hold off until I can put a Sandy Bridge CPU in it. Any thoughts from the Mini-ITX builders here?
The Gigabyte board is great, I have both the DFI MI P55-T36 and a Gigabyte on an even smaller system. The Gigabyte has better OCP which is important if you are overclocking.
The SG05 with the stock PSU should be enough for a dual core i5 (or an i3 of course) and a GTX460 if you're not overclocking, another good option is a 5770 since it consumes even less power. I ran a GTS250 and an i5 750 overclocked witht the stock PSU and never went over 250w while gaming.
I'd recommend a Prolimatech Samuel 17 to cool your CPU and if you can manage to get some 1.35v DIMMs it would be better. Other than that it's pretty straightforward and the results are pretty impressive.
If you need more info PM me (if such thing exists here) good luck!
I think the case is done well especially if you consider it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Of course you need a little more time routing the cables while building, but hey, it's astoningshly small! The system isn't that noisy, except the CPU fan quickly change RPM when there is a sudden load and you hear it easily since most of the case is opened by grilles.
I still have to optimize it yet. What do you suggest to do? I think about a small overclock while keeping CPU features on and maybe a little undervolt. I have no practice in overclock these LGA1156 systems though.
I would suggest the following: Set all voltages concerning the CPU from "AUTO" to "NORMAL" and just try it out! You should reach a BCLK between 150 - 160MHz without raising voltages. The "AUTO"-Setting with GB-Boards is just crap when overclocking cause the board sometimes raises voltages like there is no tomorrow. You may have to adjust RAM-Speed ...
RAM testing with Memtest86+ might also be a good idea. Overall system stability ... Prime95 (blend), coredamage
Hey Dustin, this article surely needs some pictures of the cube. Get some shots with comparison to regular household objects (like phones, xboxes etc) but we need some pictures!
A phone? It's not that small. Maybe next to a bowling ball?
BTW, if small footprint is what you're going after, the announced, but not yet available, Lian Li PC-Q11 looks outstanding. Would love to see a review of it!
See, exactly why a comparison picture would be useful. A phone was just an example. A bowling ball seems perfect, or even other ATXes as suggested below but we need size comparison pictures. Giving the dimensions is fine, but a picture is well worth over a thousand words (and takes thrice as much space!)
Or even just next to the systems it's compared to. Sure, the full ATX systems with SLI where faster, but they'd also look like a piece of furniture compared to the Sugo 6.
has a 600W PSU, front mounted, with much better space for a CPU cooler and a 180mm fan blowing down from the top. It just looks so much better than the SG-06 for this kind of machine.
Keep in mind that this system was made before a few updates came to the AVADirect configurator, which is why our price is only approximate. Anyway, the SG07 *is* an option at AVADirect. It's a longer chassis and costs $100 more, but there may be other benefits.
Will this travel as hand baggage on planes? Does anyone have experience of this?
I am planning on building something similar (but for dev work, with the 95W 6 core AMD) while visiting the USA, but need to be able to bring it back home. I think it should be possible to carry this on as hand luggage, but would love confirmation (it would be with Delta, and I would also be carrying a laptop).
I don't know about international flights, but my brother recently carried a larger desktop on a plane trip from WA to AZ. You'd probably want to ask Delta in advance. Best-case, be prepared to have to open the case, plug the system in, etc. to demonstrate it's a working PC with nothing funny going on.
I would guess the same, they obviously allow laptops onboard, so as long as there are no liquids involved and it runs I doubt it would be a problem. But if you call ahead, or even better get something in writing, it might help.
In case anyone else is curious, I emailed Delta and they replied saying "yes":
> Thank you for your e-mail to Delta Air Lines. > > According to FAA directives, Delta and the Delta Connection Carriers > allow each passenger to carry onboard one carry-on and one personal item > such as: > > - Male or female purse or briefcase > - Computer bag (computers cannot be checked and must be carried on) > - Camera case > - Diaper bag > - Any item of a similar or smaller size to those listed above > > These items must fit easily in our SizeCheck unit (approximately 22"" x > 14"" x 9"") and be placed under the seat in front of the passenger or in > the overhead bin. > > You may carry your computer bag as a carry on bag and a laptop as a > personal item. The computer bag must fit in our SizeCheck unit. >
I went to AVADirect's website and the only SSD they are offering in this config now is a "Wintec" 60GB.
Their configurator is a bit of a mess in other areas, it offers a lot of impossible RAM configuration options (4x2GB for example).
I love the look though, the entire thing looks great. Looking at those interior shot photos, it is worth paying someone else to cram all those cables in!
Also, the article needs a product shot on the first page. Having to hit the fourth page to see what the case looks like was a bit confusing.
Here's a good comparison PC that legitreviews just looked at a couple days ago. For $400 less (stock), I think it's a much better deal. I would add a Vertex 2 60GB for ~$130.
Playing with the AVADirect configurator, I put together much of the same specs only with an i5-650 CPU (no i3 options at AVA), 2x2GB OCZ DDR3-1600 RAM, EVGA Superclocked GTX 460, and without the Asetek cooler. Total price came to $980. You'd have to do the overclock yourself, and perhaps add a better HSF than what they offer, but it's in reach. Certainly there are a lot of options, and my own experiences with AVADirect have been good. Also note that they come with a 3-year warranty.
After taking a look at the link you referenced I have to agree. The AVADirect Nano pales in comparison to that beast especially with the H70 cooler and better overall layout that does not pack things in so tightly that taking it apart would be an issue.
interesting idea. Why don't they just use a slight bigger SG07? At lease it come with 600W PSU, which can push 5870 and desktop core i7 without problem...
I've always had a montrousity of a PC with all the lights and looks like the death star and sits there taking up half the room, filled with powerful graphics cards and whatnot..
Then after moving house for the third time I said shag it and got a small little white silverstone case and packed it with an AMD 955, low profile cooling fan and a 5770..
The difference is incredible, its small, easy to move around, and not some hideous eyesore spaceship woman repeller sitting in my room. Its tucked away and normal human beings can now enter my room without screaming.
Of course if you want the gigantor nerdmaster 5000 thats fine, but I've made the switch and I am happy, wouldn't ever go back.
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MeTechE - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Perhaps you would be interested in my current computer as a powerful Mini-ITX setup done right. I have a OC'd i7 785K with 2x4GB of ~1400MHz DDR3 on a H55N-USB3. The ATI Radeon 5770 is perhaps underpowered compared to the rest of the build but it fit the budget.Most surprising was the 16K/14K/19K Read/Write/Copy performance I got from the RAM http://imgur.com/fEjj3.png . That bandwidth along with the CPU OC allows my rig to bench competitively with my friends 4Ghz i7 920.
Don't let one bad configuration spoil the Mini-ITX fun.
mados123 - Saturday, September 18, 2010 - link
What case is that in?Huacanacha - Saturday, September 18, 2010 - link
I'm planning to build a very similar mini-ITX gaming machine for about the same budget:- Lian-Li PC-Q08 case
- Core i5-760
- Gigabyte or Zotac MB (GB has USB 3.0, Zotac USB 3.0 + wifi)
- Intel 160GB SSD + 1TB green HD
- ATI 5850/5770 (actually waiting to see if 6770 comes out this year)
- 4GB DDR3
- Slim DVD (may drop as don't need)
- 500W modular PSU
- Windows 7 Home Premium
Total is about $1500. The case is much nicer looking than the Sugo and should be better for noise & heat, but then again it's also a fair chunk larger I believe. I think I'll take my proposed build over the AVADirect one, but it's nice to see custom built SFF gaming PC's starting to appear... I'm all for the bang-for-cm^3 concept!
This will be hooked up my living room TV, and probably mainly used for playing Civ 5 :)
anactoraaron - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
"Meanwhile the pair of GTX 470's in the iBuyPower Paladin XLC blows everything away, much like the leafblower it sounds like under this kind of load." Looking at graphs makes some forget this 'noise' produced by the first fermi. The noise reminds me of a case fan I had on a heavily oc'd P4 that went by the name of 'tornado'. At the time I lived in an apartment and that fan was so loud the downstairs neighbor complained about the noise LOL! Noise yes, but man that thing could move some air (which one needed to do sometimes with stock P4's).Von Matrices - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I have a GTX 470 SLI system, and while the cards are definitely louder than any previous cards I have had, I wouldn't exactly compare their sound to a leaf blower. Granted I'm using the proper spacing of the cards (2 empty slots between them), but they only make a low-pitched rumble when at load. I'd much rather have the noise of two 470's than the whine of the 60mm fan on the Radeon 9800 Pro I had a few systems ago. That fan was just plain annoying.Kibbles - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I have almost the same setup except with a 5770 and I run 160blk with no voltage increases and with turbo and c-states still enabled. It wasn't even much work.I just went
166 -> unstable
165 -> stable-ish
164-> runs fine
back off a couple just to be safe -> 160
Probably took me but a whole 30mins.
I expect more from a system that's $1.5k+, since mine was under $700.
I guess you do get a 750S vs regular 750.
What kind of core temperatures where you getting?
vol7ron - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I agree, price looks high for what you get.I think your OCing is a bit discouraged, though. Even though there are failsafes these days, it's still advised to go from what works to what doesn't, when figuring out the proper setting; rather than going from what doesn't work, to what does.
Kibbles - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
TrueIf I was starting from scratch, I'd go up 5mhz at a time, and then ease back for longterm stability. But in my case I knew from reading around, the ballpark where the OC should be at. So I skipped that first step. Plus, I wasn't altering any of the voltages. For a builder that's going to be making a bunch of these, I would think they could do that too.
sprockkets - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
They took this case and modded it:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Sad. They took out the 300w 80PLUS FSP power supply and put in an junky Athena.
And btw, the new SFF Shuttles can be upgraded with mini itx boards, such as this one:
http://global.shuttle.com/product_detail.jsp?PLLI=...
JarredWalton - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Which is why I said the "old Shuttle SFFs". That said, my experience over the past five years is such that I would never buy anything with a Shuttle mobo. Every one of the test Shuttle SFFs died within three years of the review. :-\sprockkets - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
That stinks. All I can add is my SG40 works, but sometimes it won't boot up after the BIOS for whatever reason. Not bad for 5 years of heavy use.My current SG31G2 works pretty good. I can only say it looks well built.
archcommus - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Excellent timing on this article, as I've been interested in replacing my big ATX system with a Mini-ITX. I game very little and not above 1680x1050 res, never use my DVD drive, and don't need much HDD space, so I feel my current system and its size that hasn't changed since the 90's is simply overkill. I wanted even smaller than this AVADirect system, though, and was considering the Silverstone Sugo SG05 with the PSU it comes with, a Gigabyte board, and whatever video card I could fit. However I think it would be better to hold off until I can put a Sandy Bridge CPU in it. Any thoughts from the Mini-ITX builders here?fr500 - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
The Gigabyte board is great, I have both the DFI MI P55-T36 and a Gigabyte on an even smaller system. The Gigabyte has better OCP which is important if you are overclocking.The SG05 with the stock PSU should be enough for a dual core i5 (or an i3 of course) and a GTX460 if you're not overclocking, another good option is a 5770 since it consumes even less power. I ran a GTS250 and an i5 750 overclocked witht the stock PSU and never went over 250w while gaming.
I'd recommend a Prolimatech Samuel 17 to cool your CPU and if you can manage to get some 1.35v DIMMs it would be better. Other than that it's pretty straightforward and the results are pretty impressive.
If you need more info PM me (if such thing exists here) good luck!
PS: a couple of pics of my build back then when it was a Core 2 Duo
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/149537/Photos/DSC02649%20%...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/149537/Photos/DSC02645%20%...
It was a hit and had to build 4 more for friends a month later:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/149537/Photos/DSC02924.JPG
archcommus - Sunday, September 19, 2010 - link
Thanks for the tips!vol7ron - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
questions like these are why there's a forumtheagentsmith - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Silverstone Sugo SG05, Gigabyte H55N-USB3, i5-750, 2x2GB Corsair DDR3-1600, 60GB Corsair Force, 1TB Caviar Green, VTX 3D Radeon 5770, stock FSP 300W PSU 80plusI think the case is done well especially if you consider it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Of course you need a little more time routing the cables while building, but hey, it's astoningshly small!
The system isn't that noisy, except the CPU fan quickly change RPM when there is a sudden load and you hear it easily since most of the case is opened by grilles.
I still have to optimize it yet. What do you suggest to do? I think about a small overclock while keeping CPU features on and maybe a little undervolt.
I have no practice in overclock these LGA1156 systems though.
Folterknecht - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I would suggest the following: Set all voltages concerning the CPU from "AUTO" to "NORMAL" and just try it out! You should reach a BCLK between 150 - 160MHz without raising voltages. The "AUTO"-Setting with GB-Boards is just crap when overclocking cause the board sometimes raises voltages like there is no tomorrow.You may have to adjust RAM-Speed ...
RAM testing with Memtest86+ might also be a good idea. Overall system stability ... Prime95 (blend), coredamage
SimKill - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Hey Dustin, this article surely needs some pictures of the cube. Get some shots with comparison to regular household objects (like phones, xboxes etc) but we need some pictures!jaydee - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
A phone? It's not that small. Maybe next to a bowling ball?BTW, if small footprint is what you're going after, the announced, but not yet available, Lian Li PC-Q11 looks outstanding. Would love to see a review of it!
SimKill - Saturday, September 18, 2010 - link
See, exactly why a comparison picture would be useful. A phone was just an example. A bowling ball seems perfect, or even other ATXes as suggested below but we need size comparison pictures. Giving the dimensions is fine, but a picture is well worth over a thousand words (and takes thrice as much space!)Mr Perfect - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Or even just next to the systems it's compared to. Sure, the full ATX systems with SLI where faster, but they'd also look like a piece of furniture compared to the Sugo 6.Shadowmaster625 - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
That's just stupid in this day and age.grimJester - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
The SG-07(http://silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?...
has a 600W PSU, front mounted, with much better space for a CPU cooler and a 180mm fan blowing down from the top. It just looks so much better than the SG-06 for this kind of machine.
JarredWalton - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Keep in mind that this system was made before a few updates came to the AVADirect configurator, which is why our price is only approximate. Anyway, the SG07 *is* an option at AVADirect. It's a longer chassis and costs $100 more, but there may be other benefits.acooke - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Will this travel as hand baggage on planes? Does anyone have experience of this?I am planning on building something similar (but for dev work, with the 95W 6 core AMD) while visiting the USA, but need to be able to bring it back home. I think it should be possible to carry this on as hand luggage, but would love confirmation (it would be with Delta, and I would also be carrying a laptop).
Thanks! Andrew
vol7ron - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
More than likely.... not post 9/11JarredWalton - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I don't know about international flights, but my brother recently carried a larger desktop on a plane trip from WA to AZ. You'd probably want to ask Delta in advance. Best-case, be prepared to have to open the case, plug the system in, etc. to demonstrate it's a working PC with nothing funny going on.strikeback03 - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I would guess the same, they obviously allow laptops onboard, so as long as there are no liquids involved and it runs I doubt it would be a problem. But if you call ahead, or even better get something in writing, it might help.atmartens - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I carried a PC within a Sugo SG-06 from the US to France, by airplane, in hand luggage and encountered no issues.acooke - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Thanks for all the answers. I'll check with them, but it's good to hear soeone has done something similar.acooke - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
In case anyone else is curious, I emailed Delta and they replied saying "yes":> Thank you for your e-mail to Delta Air Lines.
>
> According to FAA directives, Delta and the Delta Connection Carriers
> allow each passenger to carry onboard one carry-on and one personal item
> such as:
>
> - Male or female purse or briefcase
> - Computer bag (computers cannot be checked and must be carried on)
> - Camera case
> - Diaper bag
> - Any item of a similar or smaller size to those listed above
>
> These items must fit easily in our SizeCheck unit (approximately 22"" x
> 14"" x 9"") and be placed under the seat in front of the passenger or in
> the overhead bin.
>
> You may carry your computer bag as a carry on bag and a laptop as a
> personal item. The computer bag must fit in our SizeCheck unit.
>
flipmode - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Nice. Giving me the opportunity to ask two days in a row.Am I becoming annoying enough yet?
JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - link
Ask and ye shall receive... after a while at least. :-)devlinb - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I went to AVADirect's website and the only SSD they are offering in this config now is a "Wintec" 60GB.Their configurator is a bit of a mess in other areas, it offers a lot of impossible RAM configuration options (4x2GB for example).
I love the look though, the entire thing looks great. Looking at those interior shot photos, it is worth paying someone else to cram all those cables in!
Also, the article needs a product shot on the first page. Having to hit the fourth page to see what the case looks like was a bit confusing.
jaydee - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Here's a good comparison PC that legitreviews just looked at a couple days ago. For $400 less (stock), I think it's a much better deal. I would add a Vertex 2 60GB for ~$130.http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1400/1/
V3 Gaming Move 3DS PC:
SilverStone SG05
Custom Asetek LC 120mm Liquid Cooling
Intel Core I3 540 Dual core Processor w/HT @3.82
Zotac H55-ITX WiFi Mini-ITX
4GB(2x2GB) Patriot Viper II Sector 5 DDR3-1600MHZ @ 1333MHz
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 768MB
Seagate 500GB 2.5" ST9500420AS
Sony Optiarc DVD/CD Rewritable Drive AS-7700S
Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit
Price $1129
JarredWalton - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Playing with the AVADirect configurator, I put together much of the same specs only with an i5-650 CPU (no i3 options at AVA), 2x2GB OCZ DDR3-1600 RAM, EVGA Superclocked GTX 460, and without the Asetek cooler. Total price came to $980. You'd have to do the overclock yourself, and perhaps add a better HSF than what they offer, but it's in reach. Certainly there are a lot of options, and my own experiences with AVADirect have been good. Also note that they come with a 3-year warranty.miahallen - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?...nuff said ;-)
pjladyfox - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
After taking a look at the link you referenced I have to agree. The AVADirect Nano pales in comparison to that beast especially with the H70 cooler and better overall layout that does not pack things in so tightly that taking it apart would be an issue.Thanks for sharing that BTW as well!
acooke - Saturday, September 18, 2010 - link
Thanks for that link.dmuk2010 - Sunday, September 19, 2010 - link
interesting idea. Why don't they just use a slight bigger SG07? At lease it come with 600W PSU, which can push 5870 and desktop core i7 without problem...flipsake - Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - link
These will be mainstream fairly soon I believe.
I've always had a montrousity of a PC with all the lights and looks like the death star and sits there taking up half the room, filled with powerful graphics cards and whatnot..
Then after moving house for the third time I said shag it and got a small little white silverstone case and packed it with an AMD 955, low profile cooling fan and a 5770..
The difference is incredible, its small, easy to move around, and not some hideous eyesore spaceship woman repeller sitting in my room. Its tucked away and normal human beings can now enter my room without screaming.
Of course if you want the gigantor nerdmaster 5000 thats fine, but I've made the switch and I am happy, wouldn't ever go back.
initialised - Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - link
This one: http://www.trustedreviews.com/pcs/review/2010/08/1...Silverstone SG07 ITX case with 600W
i5 760 @ 3.6GHz (180 or 200MHz FSB)
GTX460 (can take 5970 2GB, I tested it)
4GB 1600MHz DDR3