It's to expensive for what it is. To me, a 40GB SSD doesn't make much sense. I'd rather have a 300GB VelociRaptor as an OS drive for that price. Anyway, great review. And again, the system isn't worth the price tag.
40 GBs is enough for the OS and any non program you may want to install (with the exception of games.)
Games don't benefit that much from random access times for most of their data is sequential, you just need a fast hard drive to access these (and many normal hard drives have similar sequential reads compared to a VR). The OS and other programs benefit muchly from an SSD since most of their data is random thus the access time matters much more than sequential reads.
My personal experience with ssds also backs this up.
Seconded. Seems odd it was mentioned in the conclusion that it was idling in the 40's but then no power consumption, temp, or noise results. Seems like an entire section was left out.
I see three main issues with this build, the liquid cooling system, the choice of SLI GTS 450s, and the low-end SSD. Using liquid cooling doesn't make much sense, as a high-end air cooler (like the Noctua NH-D14 or Thermalright Silver Arrow) provides better cooling performance, lower noise levels, and higher reliability, all at a lower pricepoint. The SLI GTS 450s are also a poor choice, as a single GTX 460 1GB offers very similar performance, but with substantially lower power usage and noise levels, and at a lower pricepoint. Finally, the use of a low-end, 40GB SSD really hamstrings the system, as there really isn't enough room after the installation of the OS for the games and other applications that you want to load quickly.
By eliminating the unnecessary fan controller (~$60) and using a single GTX 460 1GB (~$60), CyberPower could have included a 120GB Sandforce-based SSD, providing ample capacity for a number of games, as well as substantially improving performance. Depending on the cost of the liquid cooling system they used, they may have even been able to upgrade to 8GB of RAM, though I'll grant that may have impacted their ability to run at 1600Mhz, and there aren't very many applications aside from desktop virtualization that need more than 4GB. This would have also given owners the option to upgrade to SLI GTX 460 1GB cards if desired at some point in the future, for truly formidable gaming performance.
Overall, this isn't a bad system, and I applaud their choice of an LGA-1156 processor, Asus motherboard, and Corsair power supply, but it seems like they made too many concessions to make the system LOOK extreme, rather than balancing it for the best performance possible.
Furthermore while it doesn't perform better, most people assume watercooling is better based on name. Some youthful people also think watercooling is more "elite."
Thus sales wise you are more likely to sell the watercooled solution even if in reality good aircooling would have performed just as well.
I agree with your logic on the video cards, but factually... the sli gts 450s are almost exactly the same speed of a gtx 470 (in most benches within 5% of each other) if the games scale well with sli. Two 450s are faster than 1 460 even a 1gb version of 460 if the game scales well with sli.
You could always OC the 460 1gb to get very close to the sli gts 450s/gtx 470; but at the same time there is nothing stopping you from OC the 450s or the 470.
Still I can't recommend the gts 450s for you can get better value from other video cards picks
The GTS 450 is like a 5750 that uses more electricity and costs more money. I'd get 2 5770's Crossfire , a single 5850 or GTS 470. For less money and better performance, great review. I am waiting for the AMD 6770 to come out in October before I buy a New PC. And i am considering getting a cyberpower sicne they have the Asetek liquid cooling and affordable prices. I personally could ahve configured a better computer for less mone but you guys wanted to test out the new mediocre geforce cards.
Can you guys do me a favour and tell me if it's OK to take this kind of computer as carry-on (on Delta)? Can I carry a laptop too?
The reason I ask is that I will be visiting the USA for a few months and am going to build my own machine in this form factor. But I need to be able to carry it back to Chile... Thanks!
i have done a lot of traveling lately, and i experienced a bit of trouble with some of my baggage. I think that you should be prepared to check it, or picked up from a claim desk with a ticket or something. You could probably take it carry on, but they might open it up and look around and waste your time in a major way, and they also might force you to check it so they can put it through their security devices. i think it depends a lot on the temperament of the airline employees you deal with, and also on the constantly changing rules that get passed to the security people at the gates. for example, i actually got a nail clipper taken from me once, and the next time i got on a plane, i realized i had a new clipper with me, and i offered it to the officer who promptly told me that the rules had changed and i could now take it with me! so don't assume anything, pack it with foam inserts on the inside of the case, and have a good enclosure or box prepared. personally, i would pack it up all crazy and mail it, but you can probably do a claim ticket for it so it won't get thrown down the luggage ramp.(for some xtra $)
A single gts 450 is going for 130 to 140 at the time of writing. The gtx 460 (768) is much faster and is currently going for 180 and higher The gtx 470 is the speed of a sli gts450s and you can get this card for 249.99+tax at Frys(everyday not a sale price, it has been this price now for 3 weeks). If you don't have a Fry's nearby you can get a gtx 470 for 300 online. (If you do MIR it is cheaper than 300).
The gtx 470 is the speed of two gts 450s in sli if everything scales. If it doesn't scale then the 470 will clobber it. Also you don't have to worry about the little issues with sli such as microstutter and profiles and such. The 470 solution is either cheaper (if you get it for 250 such as the fry deal I mention), or if you get the parts online for 300 for the gtx 470, you will have ot spend the 40 dollars extra on a sli motherboard (since only the high end p55 or almost any x58 motherboards support sli, thus you are spending extra on the motherboard.)
If you must have sli, well the sli gtx 460s is much faster than the sli gts 450s, and is only 80 dollars more.
The only reason I can see you getting the sli 450s instead of a 470 is if you must have nvidia surround to do 3 displays. If you must have this, I would so recommend stepping up to the 460s or better for running 3 monitors at once is hard and you have already spent 400 at least on 3 monitors, and probably 1500ish on the computer, you should spend 80 more for surround.
I swear I'm going to spam every system review with this. It's absurd that you've been doing all of these system reviews and there is no link to the systems category of articles.
Umm.... top of the page, directly above the headline. Unless you mean as part of the menu buttons common to all pages on the site. But really, is it that hard to bookmark http://www.anandtech.com/tag/systems ?
Yes, I meant as part of the standard menu buttons.
You want me to bookmark it? I have a bookmark for Anandtech already.
Even if I did want to bookmark it, what about all the people that come here that don't know there is a "System" section or don't know how to find it? Some people just remember seeing a real cool article on Anandtech about a Dell computer that Anandtech says they were impressed with. Since the "Search" feature of Anandtech sucks crusty balls, that's of little help.
While its nice to see anandtech reviewing a working rig, the one I bought from them I've had to get the mobo replaced three times, and now its randomly dropping HDDs on my newest one.
Given the horror stories I've read about this company, I have to wonder why anyone would risk buying from these guys. Is the price premium worth it if they still botch your system and you have to pay for repairs?
1700 dollars for 4GB of system memory? did i read that right? my system from gateway has 8GB of system ram and it cost me just under a grand minus the monitor and the frame rates are comparable to those seen in this systems graphics tests.
You know you can actually spend an extra $100 to get another 2x2GB in the system if that's what you're after. Anyway, more RAM isn't inherently better, but it's not bad either... it might make overclocking a bit more difficult at worst.
Pricing all the components used in this system on Newegg, I came up with a total of $1500, and another $90 or so to find the Asetek 570LX (not at Newegg). So, even at $1700 for this system it would be a very good deal, and $1499 would be a steal. Except we're not at all sold on the dual GTS 450 setup.
Does your $1000 Gateway have a CPU anywhere near the speed of a 3.83GHz i7-875K? Does it have graphics power anywhere near the dual 450 SLI setup? The best $1000 Gateway FX that I can see right now is the FX6840-01e, which comes with:
Core i7-860 Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit) 8GB DDR3-1333 1TB 7200RPM SATA hard drive ATI Radeon HD5570 1GB 16X DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive 500W Power Supply
If that's your system, your claim that "frame rates are comparable to those seen in this system's graphics tests" is downright laughable. A single GTS 450 is already slightly faster than the HD 5750, and that GPU has 720 stream processors clocked at 700MHz with 73.6GB/s of bandwidth. Your HD 5570 on the other hand comes with a stellar 400 SPs at 650MHz and 25.6GB/s of bandwidth. So roughly half the performance of a single 5750, which a single GTS 450 already surpasses. The only area where it comes out ahead is RAM, which is as I mentioned a $100 upgrade.
I ordered a Black Mamba system from CP. It should arrive this coming Monday. Liquid cooled gtx 480 sli gpu(s) and liquid cooled cpu. The case I chose was the Xion 970. It seemed from the video (released by CP) and the Xion's website to be well laid out and spacious for a mid-tower (which I require since my box sits in a built-in cubby hole in my desk). Looked comparable to the CM 690 II.
Curious to see if the Xion will be a let down or not. For anyone interested in the Xion 970 I'll post my thoughts in this thread when once my pc arrives.
I've got a radical idea: how about developing a fast pc that's totally quiet and doesn't act like an electric room heater! You think that's too much to ask for? You think we have the technology and intellectual genius to accomplish such a feat? Could it be done within 5 years? ... or perhaps 10?
You mean you are asking for something that can play all the games at excellent detail levels, a constant and humanly perceptable framerate, and is PRACTICAL in terms of space, power and noise levels?
C'maaaahn! ;)
Seriously though, I agree with you. There are many out there that would like to find that $1000 rig that would be able to do these things and not worry about gettingthe fastest test results. As many may claim this, few can see the difference between a 60fps and a 120fps performance (if both are kept constant and you experience no tearing or artifacts.).
Getting a rig that can play on a Sony JumboTron at 300FPS while in a mass explosion level on "Where's my Shorts III" isn't exactly the bet thing to keep constantly, well, shooting for.
Easy: Get an Antec P183. Put an i7-870 and a Radeon HD 5850 in it, and put a halfway decent air cooler on the processor.
My desktop's actually pretty quiet. I'm using an Antec P182, and I have five hard disks and an SSD, a Radeon HD 5870, a GeForce GTS 450, and an i7 930 OC'ed and undervolted to 3.6GHz cooled with a Xigmatek Dark Knight.
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vol7ron - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Not too bad for the price. The hard drive is kind of weak. I'd expect at least an 80GB SSDwolfman3k5 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
It's to expensive for what it is. To me, a 40GB SSD doesn't make much sense. I'd rather have a 300GB VelociRaptor as an OS drive for that price. Anyway, great review. And again, the system isn't worth the price tag.Roland00 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
40 GBs is enough for the OS and any non program you may want to install (with the exception of games.)Games don't benefit that much from random access times for most of their data is sequential, you just need a fast hard drive to access these (and many normal hard drives have similar sequential reads compared to a VR). The OS and other programs benefit muchly from an SSD since most of their data is random thus the access time matters much more than sequential reads.
My personal experience with ssds also backs this up.
Bitter - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
What about the power cosumption? Could be an important factor7Enigma - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Seconded. Seems odd it was mentioned in the conclusion that it was idling in the 40's but then no power consumption, temp, or noise results. Seems like an entire section was left out.LtGoonRush - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
I see three main issues with this build, the liquid cooling system, the choice of SLI GTS 450s, and the low-end SSD. Using liquid cooling doesn't make much sense, as a high-end air cooler (like the Noctua NH-D14 or Thermalright Silver Arrow) provides better cooling performance, lower noise levels, and higher reliability, all at a lower pricepoint. The SLI GTS 450s are also a poor choice, as a single GTX 460 1GB offers very similar performance, but with substantially lower power usage and noise levels, and at a lower pricepoint. Finally, the use of a low-end, 40GB SSD really hamstrings the system, as there really isn't enough room after the installation of the OS for the games and other applications that you want to load quickly.By eliminating the unnecessary fan controller (~$60) and using a single GTX 460 1GB (~$60), CyberPower could have included a 120GB Sandforce-based SSD, providing ample capacity for a number of games, as well as substantially improving performance. Depending on the cost of the liquid cooling system they used, they may have even been able to upgrade to 8GB of RAM, though I'll grant that may have impacted their ability to run at 1600Mhz, and there aren't very many applications aside from desktop virtualization that need more than 4GB. This would have also given owners the option to upgrade to SLI GTX 460 1GB cards if desired at some point in the future, for truly formidable gaming performance.
Overall, this isn't a bad system, and I applaud their choice of an LGA-1156 processor, Asus motherboard, and Corsair power supply, but it seems like they made too many concessions to make the system LOOK extreme, rather than balancing it for the best performance possible.
Meaker10 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
A small water cooling system is less likely to break in transit than some massive air cooler.The SSD is OS and a game only, but is perfectly acceptable for an OS drive (I have used one).
Hopefully you can configure and make your own balance.
Roland00 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Furthermore while it doesn't perform better, most people assume watercooling is better based on name. Some youthful people also think watercooling is more "elite."Thus sales wise you are more likely to sell the watercooled solution even if in reality good aircooling would have performed just as well.
acooke - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
The water cooling takes up less space. It's difficult to fit a high end air cooler in these boxes - there's not the vertical space.acooke - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Duh. I'm an idiot. The review mentioned the Cube and so I assumed this was also small form factor, but I just read it again and it's not. Sorry.Roland00 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
I agree with your logic on the video cards, but factually... the sli gts 450s are almost exactly the same speed of a gtx 470 (in most benches within 5% of each other) if the games scale well with sli. Two 450s are faster than 1 460 even a 1gb version of 460 if the game scales well with sli.You could always OC the 460 1gb to get very close to the sli gts 450s/gtx 470; but at the same time there is nothing stopping you from OC the 450s or the 470.
Still I can't recommend the gts 450s for you can get better value from other video cards picks
adonn78 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
The GTS 450 is like a 5750 that uses more electricity and costs more money. I'd get 2 5770's Crossfire , a single 5850 or GTS 470. For less money and better performance, great review. I am waiting for the AMD 6770 to come out in October before I buy a New PC. And i am considering getting a cyberpower sicne they have the Asetek liquid cooling and affordable prices. I personally could ahve configured a better computer for less mone but you guys wanted to test out the new mediocre geforce cards.AstroGuardian - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
If you are so much of a n expert then why don't you assemble the perfect computer for you? Why cyberpower?acooke - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Can you guys do me a favour and tell me if it's OK to take this kind of computer as carry-on (on Delta)? Can I carry a laptop too?The reason I ask is that I will be visiting the USA for a few months and am going to build my own machine in this form factor. But I need to be able to carry it back to Chile... Thanks!
acooke - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Sorry - see my other comment here - I thought this was smaller form factor system. I'll wait for the Cube review and ask again...softdrinkviking - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
i have done a lot of traveling lately, and i experienced a bit of trouble with some of my baggage.I think that you should be prepared to check it, or picked up from a claim desk with a ticket or something.
You could probably take it carry on, but they might open it up and look around and waste your time in a major way, and they also might force you to check it so they can put it through their security devices.
i think it depends a lot on the temperament of the airline employees you deal with, and also on the constantly changing rules that get passed to the security people at the gates.
for example, i actually got a nail clipper taken from me once, and the next time i got on a plane, i realized i had a new clipper with me, and i offered it to the officer who promptly told me that the rules had changed and i could now take it with me!
so don't assume anything, pack it with foam inserts on the inside of the case, and have a good enclosure or box prepared.
personally, i would pack it up all crazy and mail it, but you can probably do a claim ticket for it so it won't get thrown down the luggage ramp.(for some xtra $)
Roland00 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
A single gts 450 is going for 130 to 140 at the time of writing.The gtx 460 (768) is much faster and is currently going for 180 and higher
The gtx 470 is the speed of a sli gts450s and you can get this card for 249.99+tax at Frys(everyday not a sale price, it has been this price now for 3 weeks). If you don't have a Fry's nearby you can get a gtx 470 for 300 online. (If you do MIR it is cheaper than 300).
The gtx 470 is the speed of two gts 450s in sli if everything scales. If it doesn't scale then the 470 will clobber it. Also you don't have to worry about the little issues with sli such as microstutter and profiles and such. The 470 solution is either cheaper (if you get it for 250 such as the fry deal I mention), or if you get the parts online for 300 for the gtx 470, you will have ot spend the 40 dollars extra on a sli motherboard (since only the high end p55 or almost any x58 motherboards support sli, thus you are spending extra on the motherboard.)
If you must have sli, well the sli gtx 460s is much faster than the sli gts 450s, and is only 80 dollars more.
The only reason I can see you getting the sli 450s instead of a 470 is if you must have nvidia surround to do 3 displays. If you must have this, I would so recommend stepping up to the 460s or better for running 3 monitors at once is hard and you have already spent 400 at least on 3 monitors, and probably 1500ish on the computer, you should spend 80 more for surround.
jfelano - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Too big a psu and too little video card. HD5850 performance and a 750w Corsair psu??flipmode - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
I swear I'm going to spam every system review with this. It's absurd that you've been doing all of these system reviews and there is no link to the systems category of articles.flipmode - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
7 articles in 2010, none of them accessible to anyone that doesn't know to manually type the URL.alephxero - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Umm.... top of the page, directly above the headline. Unless you mean as part of the menu buttons common to all pages on the site. But really, is it that hard to bookmark http://www.anandtech.com/tag/systems ?flipmode - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
Yes, I meant as part of the standard menu buttons.You want me to bookmark it? I have a bookmark for Anandtech already.
Even if I did want to bookmark it, what about all the people that come here that don't know there is a "System" section or don't know how to find it? Some people just remember seeing a real cool article on Anandtech about a Dell computer that Anandtech says they were impressed with. Since the "Search" feature of Anandtech sucks crusty balls, that's of little help.
Drewoid13 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
While its nice to see anandtech reviewing a working rig, the one I bought from them I've had to get the mobo replaced three times, and now its randomly dropping HDDs on my newest one.I can't recommend this company.
Schrodinger's Lolcat - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
Given the horror stories I've read about this company, I have to wonder why anyone would risk buying from these guys. Is the price premium worth it if they still botch your system and you have to pay for repairs?http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/dctag/maki...
Toms83 - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
1700 dollars for 4GB of system memory? did i read that right? my system from gateway has 8GB of system ram and it cost me just under a grand minus the monitor and the frame rates are comparable to those seen in this systems graphics tests.JarredWalton - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
You know you can actually spend an extra $100 to get another 2x2GB in the system if that's what you're after. Anyway, more RAM isn't inherently better, but it's not bad either... it might make overclocking a bit more difficult at worst.Pricing all the components used in this system on Newegg, I came up with a total of $1500, and another $90 or so to find the Asetek 570LX (not at Newegg). So, even at $1700 for this system it would be a very good deal, and $1499 would be a steal. Except we're not at all sold on the dual GTS 450 setup.
Does your $1000 Gateway have a CPU anywhere near the speed of a 3.83GHz i7-875K? Does it have graphics power anywhere near the dual 450 SLI setup? The best $1000 Gateway FX that I can see right now is the FX6840-01e, which comes with:
Core i7-860
Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)
8GB DDR3-1333
1TB 7200RPM SATA hard drive
ATI Radeon HD5570 1GB
16X DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive
500W Power Supply
If that's your system, your claim that "frame rates are comparable to those seen in this system's graphics tests" is downright laughable. A single GTS 450 is already slightly faster than the HD 5750, and that GPU has 720 stream processors clocked at 700MHz with 73.6GB/s of bandwidth. Your HD 5570 on the other hand comes with a stellar 400 SPs at 650MHz and 25.6GB/s of bandwidth. So roughly half the performance of a single 5750, which a single GTS 450 already surpasses. The only area where it comes out ahead is RAM, which is as I mentioned a $100 upgrade.
quibbs - Thursday, September 16, 2010 - link
I ordered a Black Mamba system from CP. It should arrive this coming Monday. Liquid cooled gtx 480 sli gpu(s) and liquid cooled cpu. The case I chose was the Xion 970. It seemed from the video (released by CP) and the Xion's website to be well laid out and spacious for a mid-tower (which I require since my box sits in a built-in cubby hole in my desk). Looked comparable to the CM 690 II.Curious to see if the Xion will be a let down or not. For anyone interested in the Xion 970 I'll post my thoughts in this thread when once my pc arrives.
sulu1977 - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
I've got a radical idea: how about developing a fast pc that's totally quiet and doesn't act like an electric room heater! You think that's too much to ask for? You think we have the technology and intellectual genius to accomplish such a feat? Could it be done within 5 years? ... or perhaps 10?Ninjahedge - Friday, September 17, 2010 - link
You mean you are asking for something that can play all the games at excellent detail levels, a constant and humanly perceptable framerate, and is PRACTICAL in terms of space, power and noise levels?C'maaaahn! ;)
Seriously though, I agree with you. There are many out there that would like to find that $1000 rig that would be able to do these things and not worry about gettingthe fastest test results. As many may claim this, few can see the difference between a 60fps and a 120fps performance (if both are kept constant and you experience no tearing or artifacts.).
Getting a rig that can play on a Sony JumboTron at 300FPS while in a mass explosion level on "Where's my Shorts III" isn't exactly the bet thing to keep constantly, well, shooting for.
Dustin Sklavos - Saturday, September 18, 2010 - link
Easy: Get an Antec P183. Put an i7-870 and a Radeon HD 5850 in it, and put a halfway decent air cooler on the processor.My desktop's actually pretty quiet. I'm using an Antec P182, and I have five hard disks and an SSD, a Radeon HD 5870, a GeForce GTS 450, and an i7 930 OC'ed and undervolted to 3.6GHz cooled with a Xigmatek Dark Knight.
Sure, it's big and heavy, but it's damn quiet.