I have also noticed that all Android phones out there do some kind of "breakdancing". You think it has something to do with Android, but I think it has something to do with Java. Now, Java devs will probably want to eat my brain after this... but Java sucks. Big time. Making Android's UI based on Java was a bad, bad, really bad move. About four three time slower than C++, it demands more memory... completely inadequate for a mobile environment.
It's sad, the prevalence of Java FUD to this day. It's also bad to blame Java (the syntax), as you are unnecessarily conflating the Dalvik VM with desktop VMs such as Sun's.
C++ is fast, sure, but there is a lot more to designing a platform than speed, and the Dalvik VM is more than fast enough. iOS's Obj-C implementation is also not C++ fast, but who complains?
1. both Javas are shit 2. There is more to a platform then speed... but when you are designing a platform starved for processing power and that needs to sip electricity then it makes a huge difference.
Most of the platform are actually C/C++ libraries and programs, where you glue your app in isn't that relevant. You need a framework for any mobile phone platform, but the resources that framework glues into thats where a lot of performance comes from and it's in C/C++. It's better to have an accelerated framework running on a virtual machine then an unaccelerated C++ one. Rendering of menus and such would be slower on the last one. Besides on Symbian it's QT-framework that rules now, not some ultra customized embedded framework. Memory requirements have gone up there too, but capacity have grown even more. Besides nobody wanted to write mobile apps to some badly designed and awkward C++ framework and API. Java syntax was a good choice therefor.
the fact that there are more considerations than just programming language when it comes to power and speed are obvious, as is that you could make a java app thats faster than a C++ app. Neither make java a good choice.
BTW, I didn't personally comment about the issue of jerkiness, I was going on a tangent as a reply to what meatless said (specifically the socalled "java FUD")
It's an Android problem. The cause of the "jerkiness" is that unlike iOS/WebOS/WP7, Android doesn't have a gpu accelerated ui. They supposedly did this because the G1 wouldn't support it at the time.
Thankyou! this is exactly it, give the man a medal. I don't know why Anandtech never mentions this. It should be ubiquitous knowledge in the android community.
Also, the 3-4X speed difference on non-mobile platforms is greatly exaggerated. I always find http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ a fun and FUD-free site.
Greatly exagerated? That site shows a 2.3x speed difference and it's comparring against Sun's fastest most optimizing version against g++. The unoptimized version is over 20x slower, you'll find it near the bottom of the list for compares. I do find it interesting that while they're satisfied with using an open source C (gnu) compiler, they do not include the open source java interpreter. They also do not include the Intel C compiler, even though they easily could and include the Intel Fortran compiler.
In other words, is still in the ball park so say Java is 3-4x slower than the equivalent c++ code.
Wait, so the Java syntax is what is slowing down Android? Because it doesn't run Java, it runs Dalvik.
I would also like to see evidence that C++ is 4 times faster. Not saying Java is faster but it is fast enough. I say that as a Java developer who doesn't like the language and would rather use slower languages like Python
Java's JIT could create code that is faster than C/C++. Because unlike C++ compiler, it also has runtime info about executables, it could know for sure, which of the if branches is more likely to be true, for instance.
The only part of Java that was much slower than C++ was (and I think still is) sin/cos related functions. Since Sun had to guarantee "runs anywhere" with the exactly the same results, instead of using CPU's features they "manually" calculate it.
Well java WAS slow - around ten years ago, but people have already made up their mind, it's hard to get new ideas into some heads. Though the lack of a JIT in dalvik hampered performance, but that's hardly something where you can blame the language for..
Ah, just like all those people who still believe that manual memory managment is inherently faster than GC..
what a brilliant troll, or accidental. I'm not sure, but plenty of debunked this.
What really brings down the entire samsung line of phones is that the GPS is horrible. I have one myself, and have the same issue on the vibrant as on the epic. Samsung really screwed the GPS up bigtime.
Well when faced with such a brilliant technical argument like "but Java sucks. Big time" what can one say. http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/01/16/space.mar... Is an article from back in 2004 about how those idiots at NASA used Java to control the Spirit rover on Mars. If only they had you available to show them how to do right.
Man I get sick of this crap. I heard the same thing way back when. People complaining when programmers used high level languages to write programs instead of assembly. The thing is that it was all silliness just as it is now. What really counts isn't the language but the programmer using it.
Android's speed issues tend to because by. 1. Not using the GPU for the UI 2. Using multitasking from the start.
IOS has only just now gotten official multitasking and even that is limited.
Umm... to be clear, this is just the user interface used on Earth, which is something Java does well. The rovers themseves are controlled using VxWorks RTOS. VxWorks itself is written in C or C++ I believe.
Well, it's not the kind of technical argument everyone would like, but it gets to the point. Anand reviewed like half a dozen of Android phones, all with the same problem. So, or the companies are making exactly the same mistake with each and every model they launch, or Java is to blame. And no, I'm not trolling because I do want to Android to succeed. A troll is based on hate, and it usually doesn't check back the thread he/she started. And you haven't seen a single insult in this thread, right? ;)
Sounds like an IPhone Fanboy that is trying his best to be subjective. Samsung actually did not get it right performance wise. They use an antiquated and slow file system. For a pleasurable UI experience on Android, the N1 is still king, especially on 2.2. The only way the samsung galaxy variants fly is with root access and ext2, 3 or 4 fixes. there are GPS fixes as well however where Samsung let down actually is in the UI with Touchwiz and their ridiculous homage to Apple. No wonder this twit liked it. Android people IMMEDIATELY change the launcher. Anyway, the Hardware on the Galaxy S is excellent. Samsung did their best to eff it up and only with tweaks and root level access is it a really strong phone. Google and Androids main problem is OS sprawl and fragmentation. They get that cleaned up and the IPhone 4 is a distant second mobile OS. Right now, with the clear advantages Android phones have, specifically customization and an open source community among others, it's essentially a wash. It's about what you prefer and are comfortable with. I'm an Android guy because I like to make my phone do what I want it to, not what Jobs wants my phone to be.
ktwebb, I don't think Anand reviewed it w/ the ext2 FS hack/fix (whatever you want to call it). The UI speed is fine from the factory; it's much better than the EVO 4G (even with Froyo) and on par w/ the N1, just not as good as it *could* be once you root it and fix the filesystem.
N1 Froyo is faster than stock Galaxy S Variants. And yeah, he didn't review with hacks and I certainly understand why he wouldn't. Shouldn't need them. But that is a Samsung issue, not Android. Samsung has the potential for a very good handset with the Galaxy S. They are trying their best to eff it up though. I haven't played with the EVO but had android phones since the G1 inception. The N1 was the best UI experience after Froyo was pushed. And far better than any IPHone I've used, although my experience with 4 is limited.
My Epic is fine but the GPS is not, and the fixes out there for the other Galaxies are irrelevant to Epic, which has new, different, and in many ways, worse, GPS problems. Samsung has issued one single recommendation for the poor GPS on Epic: turn on cellular tower location estimates. Some fix!
I am no iPhone fan. i can't stand them or the people who use them. But the GPS problems on the Epic are real. For starters look at the pics posted in this review. They are consistent with what anyone who tests the GPS finds -- the GPS reception hardware itself on Epic is weak. Look at that satellite strength.
Epic's other GPS problem is that frequent resets are required, as Epic does not discard expired GPS assistance data, and does not attempt to get new assistance data, often causing complete inability to get a GPS fix, even when many satellites are in view.
<b><q>I am no iPhone fan. i can't stand them or the people who use them...</b></q>
WOW! Way to be an asshat of epic scale. Just because I have an iPhone you can't stand me? I thought only Apple users were supposed to be such arrogant asses?
I also can't stand you. In my opinion by agreeing to use hardware with unbelievably draconian restrictions (not being able to copy stuff from my own device? not being able to copy stuff to my own device from more than one source? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?), you are asking form even more crap in the future.
Yet again the users on this site do not understand how most people use their phones and their way is the only way. Like bearxor has said in a later post most people take the phone out of the box and start using it. They don't root it and then start tweaking it.
For what i use my phone for the iPhone works for me, am I saying it is the best phone/OS of all time of course not; it has it flaws. I am also not bashing anyone who uses any other type of phone/OS, It is a freakin phone/OS people it isn't that important.
Medi01-Hate if you want, but the iPhone works for me. Have fun judging others on material things, let me know how that works out for you in the future.
I didn't say the GPS problems weren't valid. I just mentioned fixes were available. Multiple "Fixes" Unsatisfactory to ship their phones with broken GPS but that's Samsung. But once again, that's a hit on Samsung, not on the OS.
Why does everyone on sites like this think their way is the only thing people will do. Do you really think a lot of people are going to buy a phone and then root it and then tweak it?
No!
Most people are going to buy the phone, take it out of the box and begin using it. Heck, before switching to an iPhone in 2008, I used a Treo 700wx for two years, the longest I had ever used a WinMo device at a time, because I just got so sick and tired of HTC's crap. I was always having to reset the phone. Switch out ROMs on the phone. I never knew if a phone call was going to come through on a PPC-6600 or PPC-6700. Enough already!
I know that makes me less of a "geek" but I was cooking roms and flashing devices before a lot of people even discovered regular phones with qwerty keyboards on them.
I found this review to be a great example of what I would expect of the phone if I were to march down to a Sprint store, picked one up and started using it right away. That's all I really want from my phone. For it to do the functions that it's advertised to do.
I think you also forget what website we are at. Just last a couple weeks ago there was an article on tuning your memory using a custom made bios. Every article on computer hardware usually covers the intended consumer point of view first, and then gets right into dissecting and tweaking the hardware to squeeze every last drop of performance out of it. Seems like kind of a shame to not at least mention how much faster the phone can be if you do a few things such as overclock the cpu or a file system fix.
Normally, I'd completely agree with you. However, taking the phone as a complete package, I think that Anand has done a good job in reviewing the <i>phone</i> as you get it, and not post tweaking.
While it may be common to buy a motherboard and CPU then tweak it until you squeeze the maximum amount of power out of it, it's less common to do that with a laptop.
Similarly, not very many people buy a Dell then go into overclocking options with it (since it's not necessarily as easy to do on a Dell than a home-assembled computer).
But I do agree that there's a myriad of things that can be done to the phone after the fact. I'd wager that it's possible Anandtech is coming up with a "Android tweaking" article at some point in the future that goes into some small detail of the things that are available to the end user, and how those can impact performance of the phone to the end user.
Don't like the fan boy accusations but he does bring up a point. With the lag fixes it does benchmark a lot faster (Look up One Click Lag Fix on the market, will root your phone and install the lag fix and GPS fix). Have to wonder how it will fly with 2.2
It's an interesting review since it starts out with some good words and ends with, what my impression is - well it's a POS.
And I'm sorry Samsung, but a phone needs to last more than 5 minutes and a GPS needs to work. We really could not care about it looking like a damn iPhone. Hell, people buy iPhones for that.
There seems to be an agreement amongst high-end Android users that battery life is terrible within the first two weeks, but then significantly improves after the battery has been conditioned. It's possible that due to the short review period, this never get's a chance to happen, causing an under report of the battery life.
It would be fascinating if you did a follow up later on to determine if this is true.
The functional battery life is pretty long. I can pull 1.5-2 days if my use is limited (maybe 20 minutes of calling, 20 or so text messages, little to no browsing). The Hummingbird really does sip power when it's idle.
If you're hammering away at it for 4 straight hours, then the battery life is pretty poor.
But other than emergency situations, are you really going to have a phone like this and only use it that little? I've mentioned before, I wish they could come up with some type of "real-life" battery test that would include a certain amount of talk, text, web, video, etc. per hour. For example, I would be surprised if the battery in my HTC Diamond lasts much more than 2 hrs in 3G browsing, but in my usual day (5-10 min talk, 80-100 text, few MMS, 10-15 min web, many times turned on to check the time) it generally has 20-30% still showing when I put it back on the charger after 15-16 hrs.
On battery break in: with Lithium based batteries, break in is negligible. The observed better second week battery life comes from playing with less features. I expected better battery life than my spouse's Evo, due to more efficient power usage of the Epic's processor as well as its screen. We found the battery life to be equal, my impression from behavior of both in weak signal areas is that Epic's voice, 3g and its 4G reception is slightly worse than Evo which will cause some additional drain on power.
My personal experience (6+ device batteries so far, including phones, cameras) shows a 1,8-2x battery life improvement after 3-4 charge-discharge cycles. And it's definitely not due to unbalanced usage. The same holds true for both Lithium-Ion and Lithium-Polymer batteries, although the more I think about it, the more I convince myself that Lithium-Polymer are more susceptible to break in.
I've got an original Droid now running Android 2.2. A while back I picked up a couple of spare batteries cheap online. These are identical to the one that came in the phone. When I swapped in one of the new batteries it was showing up as fully charged already. I started rotating the three batteries every Friday to keep approximately equal usage on each one.
I never really noticed any difference. Then again I wasn't specifically looking for that and did not do any kind of test.
I have the Samsung Captivate (not the Epic 4G), but it's still in the galaxy S line. I noticed that I needed at least 3 complete charge/discharge cycles before I got reasonable battery life out of the phone. It wasn't a decrease in usage either, I made sure I kept my usage patterns consistent.
My experience with the Captivate now is that I can listen to podcasts all day, read all my work email, do some web browsing, and still have around 60% battery left at 10pm. If they could just fix the GPS issues with a software patch (they say they're going to sometime in September, along with an upgrade to 2.2) the I'll be extremely happy.
Also, I've been pretty happy with the brightness of my Captivate, I wonder if the review took into account the separate brightness settings for the browser app?
These results were all recorded after discharging the phone more than 3 times (each test was run multiple times). Note that 4 hours of continuous usage can often times yield a pretty long real world battery life depending on your usage pattern. That being said, a phone that gets 8 hours in our tests will obviously last longer with the same usage pattern. While the Epic 4G's battery life may be sufficient, it's lower than we'd like to see for a modern smartphone.
And thank you for the correction on the browser brightness setting, that's why the screen looked dimmer at full brightness by comparison. In that shot the Epic 4G's screen was set to approximately 20% brightness. I've made the appropriate correction in the review and credited you with the heads up :)
Anand, the poor battery life is probably due to Sprint. Other reviews (of the European 3G galaxy S) show maybe the best battery life among Androids. Check this test from a very reputable site: http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-i9000-galaxy-s-fu...
Luckly because it is Android and you can do what you like with it there are home screen replacements on the market. I use the open source ADW replacement and got rid of the iOS knock off crap
Sprint has excellent warranty. they handle it in store themselves for warrantable problems for free for one year even if you purchase NO protection plan. So rooting it, which voids warranty if detected, carreis some risk of a lost substantial benefit.
Actually, phones like these have been out a while now. Just not in the US. The Galaxy S looks the same most of the other Samsung phones that have been on the Korean market for the past 1-2 years.
I would have much preferred the Samsung Haptic Pop, than the Galaxy S. Sadly, we'll never see the Haptic Pop in the states. I have the T-Mobile Galaxy S. It feels too much like an iPhone. Only thing I like, the AMOLED screen.
Sure you haven't been watching too much 30 Rock? In the beginning of Season 3, Will Arnett's character claims that he 'sold the E (in GE) to Samsung. They're Samesung now."
That's the only place I've heard anything like that.
As a Palm Pre user I know the pain of poor battery life. I thought the Super AMOLED display was suppose to improve batter life by almost double over the EVO. What happened? As far as the Pre goes I have mine o/c to 800Mhz and it's very snappy. Add the almost cooperative nature of Palm to the homebrew community means that I can customize my phone to make up for the OS shortcomings. The GPS on the Pre is craptastic as well. Hopefully, Palm will improve on these when they release new models this fall.
I think that's possible since my Vibrant gives me about 6-7 hours of battery life with full brightness and the screen consumes about 70-80% of my battery as per the battery usage view. I don't care since I'm typically around a charger so I set it at max brightness. But if I were to lower the brightness, I should easily be able to go for the whole day. Even at 0 brightness, the screen is surprisingly usable.
I have also noticed that the only thing that drains battery faster than the screen (in my G1 as well), is if it has to hunt for a phone signal. At one time, my G1 was draining battery in about 2-3 hours, which was awful even by the G1's sorry battery life standard. It turned out to be because I was using a SIM card of a provider that had very poor coverage at the location. As soon as I swapped the SIM with another carrier, the battery life went back up. So it's possible that Sprint's causing the phones to go back and forth between 2g, 3G and 4G signals causing the battery to drain faster. It might be worthwhile to go into the Mobile Networks settings and use only 2G network to check the battery drain. Obviously this would just be to test the hypothesis. It would be stupid to buy this phone and use it only in 2G mode.
Probably the most requested review here. I'm actually glad that the battery life turned out to be abysmal - it helped me make up my mind about an otherwise desirable phone.
Let me explain: My fiancée had two dead Samsung Blackjacks within one warranty period. My Samsung Spinpoint F1 is dying. My mother just junked a dead Samsung TV (5 yrs old). To be perfectly frank, I have ZERO confidence in Samsung products, and the build quality of the Galaxy gives me no reason to revise that opinion.
Fortunately, the poor battery life gives me a legitimate excuse not to buy this, and I won't feel like I am missing out on anything because of a possibly irrational aversion. Sure, it's nice to have a fast phone, but by the time apps come out that make meaningful use of this, there will be *much* faster phones on the market. Buying for future-proofing is not a smart idea in the smartphone space.
PS Still looking for that 'perfect' (Android) smartphone. Evo 4G is too big and power hungry, Droid X plans are too expensive.
Something like the recently announced Droid Defy might work, if only it didn't have eFuse, Motoblur, and wasn't tied to a sucky carrier.
I'm perfectly willing to wait 1 year on a post-paid phone plan for a decent phone to come out. Even the Torch would work for me, though probably not for the missus.
First and foremost for me is that it should be a phone above all things and 'smart' second. If you're going to chew the battery life tweeting and watching youtube on it, then have no juice to call AAA when you break down on the highway, it's useless to me. Integration with social apps is also something of a nightmare for me - there are people I may enjoy hanging out with on social occasions, but that doesn't mean I wish to know what they are eating, thinking, drinking or (bodily function deleted) during office hours. Somebody, please get this. So far, only Blackberry seems to. Fortunately, most other BB users are sober/boring enough that BBM is a good way to communicate for the dour, buttoned-down crowd. :p
I think it's worth mentioning that SuperAMOLED is officially a Samsung smartphone exclusive until 2012 (IMHO mostly because of limited AMOLED manufacturing capacity until the new Samsung OLED fab is up and running in 2012) . So you won't see it anywhere else in the near future. So please people, don't bitch about missing Super AMOLEDs in every smartphone that's coming in the next 18 months...
>> Thankfully Samsung provides a setting to sync these two so both the screen and buttons go blank at the same time, but it’s just not enabled by default. >>
I have seen this posted a couple of times, but I can't find any such setting on my Vibrant. Is it on the Epic? Can someone provide a little detail on exactly where this setting is? The timeout for lighting the buttons is just too short and very annoying.
Thanks Anand. That option is not present on the Vibrant. The last option on the Vibrant for Sound and Display is TV out. Hopefully, it will be part of the Froyo update.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I must own the only Android phone that is just as fast as my girlfriend's iPhone3GS or my colleagues iPhone4 with no more in the way of choppy animations and stuttering than they have.
The camera/lighting plus running the screen at full brightness exaggerates pixel pitch a bit but remember this device has the same resolution as the Nexus One but with a larger screen.
I had a chance to check out an Epic 4g at the local sprint store and compared it to the Evo screen. The pixels were more easily seen on the Epic and it did bother me, but I guess it may not bother others as much.
You mention the problem with jerkiness on Android phones, but I find my Desire is wonderfully smooth. It's almost exactly the same hardware as the Incredible, but with better build quality, and I've found no SMS scrolling problems.
My Desire is unbranded, so there's no junk from operators like Sprint, etc. installed. Maybe this makes a difference?
And I manage to easily get a days worth of business use out of it - remote access, phone calls, web, etc. 30 hrs on lighter use.
I sure would love to have a better gpu, like the Galaxy S, and, more importantly, a screen that I can see in daylight without squinting.
I wouldn't say that the SGX 540 is a waste of hardware today. While there are nowhere near the amount of 3d games that IOS has, there are several high quality titles that run great on the galaxy s. Need for Speed Shift and the Sims 3 HD by EA, NOVA, Sandstorm, Assasin's Creed, Hero of Sparta, Asphalt5, to name a few by Gameloft all run great at native resolution, which can't be said for phones like the EVO and Incredible that run on the Snapdragon SOC.
I absolutely love that we're back to using Quake 3 as a GPU performance benchmark. It stuck around for a long ass time in the first place and now it's back :-D
Ok, so I've had an Epic 4G for about three weeks now. Battery life is completely on par for any other smartphone in this segment. I did switch my background to a darker one (the tent with star trails), but other than that I've done very little to mod the device. I don't even use ATK or juicedefender, and I use the built in auto backlight setting to manage brightness. I did not use any 4G today.
I pulled the phone off my charger at 7am, it's 4pm now. I streamed two hours of Pandora, made one 30 minute phone call and three 5 minute phone calls. Took three pictures and uploaded them to twitpic, have been using Tuiteur, facebook, and checking email on 4 different gmail accounts (with background sync enabled). Spent five minutes yelping a spot for lunch. Played about 15 minutes worth of games (GalCon Flight Control, and Simple Dice), helped debug a wireless router (which required about 20 minutes of wi-fi use), and just spent the last 5 minutes looking up geocaches in my area.
My battery is at 35%.
I would term my use as "moderate".
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the battery life on the Epic 4G. Nothing at all for a phone this powerful and with a screen this large.
GPS is a pain, but I find if I turn off GPS throughout the day, and turn it back on before I start an app that requires GPS, i get locks fast enough, and I'm usually down to about 3 meters accurate.
Maybe it's just the signal in Anand's area, but I've gotten better battery life with both EVO and Epic, and even though we TECHNICALLY don't get 4G in LA, when you find pockets of 4G access we're currently getting 4+Mbps down.
Lastly if you're going to review a keyboard slider phone, maybe give the phone to someone who isn't quite so lit on iPhones, and likes to use a hardware keyboard? Just a thought? Exactly TWO sentences are spent on what is quite possibly one of the best keyboards on the market today. No small feat considering this is NOT an HTC phone. No mention of the dedicated number row (who really likes pushing a function key)? No comparison to any other hardware keyboards? Really? Nothing?
not ot call BS, on your GPS findings butt eh are out of wahck with all the testing using testing applicaitons. There are several serious problems with Epics GPS. And actually a number of them show up becasue of switching the GPS off. Go to XDA, or androidforums and you will see discussions. ' Your 3 meters accurate is Epic fooling you since it has already been shown the Epic is cooking those numbers..
Look at the pictures published by anantech, or others. Pictures of side by side comparisons showing nubmer of satellites used by the Epic show the serious problem.
Hey Dane74, Here's the deal. I've had the phone for three weeks BEFORE it was officially released (I also write for a tech blog). You can look at pictures of SOMEONE else using metric apps, and trying to tally measurements in lab-like conditions, or you can use the phone.
You know what, lets look at Anand's pic. Next to the Nexus 1, it's off by 30m, but has found one additional satellite over the N1. It's only locked to 3 satellites, but is reading better signals from the other satellites it hasn't locked. SO this is probably not a hardware issue (if we're to base EVERYTHING on one pic published by a reviewer that doesn't seem to like this phone that much).
I GeoCache A LOT. Using the GPS in the phone to geocache in really challenging environments to get good satellite line of sight (like the canyons in LA), I'm still within 5 meters. This is comparing the on screen data to map and compass.
Samsung might have issues, but it isn't "Fooling" me. They haven't written any malicious software, they aren't trying to hurt you, they aren't trying to trick you, they aren't evil-ly twiddling their fingers laughing "Muah-ha-ha" style at their customers while petting white cats. They've admitted they have some software issues, and are working on a patch.
My locks do take longer than my EVO, but are CONSIDERABLY faster than my Fascinate (Yes. I have all of these phones.) If the EVO is more accurate, I can't tell when I'm outside or doing turn by turn navigation. Truthfully, for all of the advantages that the Epic offers over any other phone, if it's only accurate to 4 meters and the iphone is accurate to 2 meters, the iphone can STILL shove it. I'm driving/walking/riding a bike NOT engaging in surgical missile strikes...
As to whether or not turning GPS on and off creates problems, I can't say. I haven't had any of these issues. My issues usually stem from not having good line of sight (like when I'm downtown).
Very helpful review... I almost bought one of these. I was hoping with the AMOLED the battery life would be better than the Evo 4G since it actually turns off black pixels from what I hear. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to help. Looks like I'll be keeping my Curve a while longer.
The i9000 (international version), which I assume is the same as the Epic, has a micro-USB port. Samsung has developed a micro-USB to HDMI cable but apparently they took the Galaxy S off its compatibility list on their website, so, I think the answer is essentially no. Still, the cable isn't out yet so we'll see.
If you are able to dig up any additional info (maybe prod the engadget boys to see if they're testing methods are as exacting as yours, and what soft. ver they have) can you please update the article or drop in a news blurb?
(I'll admit this is a big one for me, GPS is the one sticking point as I realy heavily on it.)
The 30m/98.4feet GPS accuracy is a well-known bug. It won't go larger nor smaller. But from my google maps, the accuracy is definitely much better than 30m, probably ~5m. My friends' Epic don't have GPS problem either. You can not rely on the accuracy shown on some test apps.
The Epic has such widely GPS problems it is an entire section on Epic GPS issues in the Wikipedia article on it. If you are new to smart-phones, the GPS seems ok, If you know how good GPS has been on smart-phones for the past couple of years, you realize how bad Epic's is. And the picture shows the really low signal, that is the root of the problem on all the Epics. You are new to smart-phones, that is why you think the poor GPS on Epic is ok.
I've had my Epic basically since launch day, and I've noticed (and found others at xda and androidforums) that the phone has issues with both the standard 3g data and general reception.
First thing is that for some reason the phone is constantly "without a signal", meaning that for some reason it is constantly searching for a cell signal (GSM?), even in areas with great reception. This can be 'fixed' by toggling airplane mode right after initial boot, and it might even alleviate some of the battery issues since the phone is no longer searching for a signal.
Second big issue is that the 3g upload data seems to be capped at 150 kbps. I have yet to see/hear/read any Epic capable of uploading faster than that on 3g. Even with full bars in the dead of night where I've been able to hit 1700 kbps download, I still get stuck at 145 kbps upload. I know for sure that my Pre before hand could easily hit 400-500 kbps under similar conditions.
Even in the review it looks as if Anand was also hitting the 3g upload wall, but it wasn't as apparent as it appeared to just be a reception issue since the area normally only gets 500 kbps U/D and the down speed at the time of testing only hit 300 kbps.
Anand, is there any way you can test these further?
"I will say that I no longer have the problem where 4G performance is worse than Sprint’s 3G in my area. I usually get around 0.5/0.5Mbps on 3G, so there’s a noticeable performance increase when WiMAX is enabled."
Are you sure you are getting 0.5Mbps up on 3g? There have been no posters with speed tests that get more than about ~150kbps up on any Epic 4G phone, even when side-by-side tests of an Evo will get 700+ kbps.
If you look at the XDA site you will see mention of a "lag fix" for all Galaxy S variants (US and International versions) that converts what some of the XDA guys are calling an inefficient file system.
Supposedly, the "lag fix" - there are multiple ones out there - converts the Samsung file system to something else (I believe to EXT2) and users are reporting Quadrant benchmarks that go from 800s (stock) to over 2000 post-lag-fix.
I would love for a brief commentary on this and, if possible, a word from Samsung (though I doubt they'd admit to anything).
Great review. I just got the Fascinate and love it so far.
I have had to phone replacements in the past two weeks, working on my third or a differant brad. I can not be the only person with these problems. My first phones web page wouldstick behind the main menu page. I correted it by re passting the wall paper. It would also freze. I removed and re inserted the battery to unlock ad run again. My second phone had a whole set of differant problems. It will consistantly bump three times and send me back to the main menu regardless of which app I am in. A call, web site, a game, in the middle of a email, etc. I have never dropped the phones, I have taken perfect care. This started on each phone shortly after using them for only a few minutes. I can not be the only person with such problems. Sprint just said, bring it back in for a replacement or choose another brand??? How many are being returned. To bad I really like the phone, or the idea of it.?
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Ethaniel - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
I have also noticed that all Android phones out there do some kind of "breakdancing". You think it has something to do with Android, but I think it has something to do with Java. Now, Java devs will probably want to eat my brain after this... but Java sucks. Big time. Making Android's UI based on Java was a bad, bad, really bad move. About four three time slower than C++, it demands more memory... completely inadequate for a mobile environment.meatless - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
It's sad, the prevalence of Java FUD to this day. It's also bad to blame Java (the syntax), as you are unnecessarily conflating the Dalvik VM with desktop VMs such as Sun's.C++ is fast, sure, but there is a lot more to designing a platform than speed, and the Dalvik VM is more than fast enough. iOS's Obj-C implementation is also not C++ fast, but who complains?
taltamir - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
1. both Javas are shit2. There is more to a platform then speed... but when you are designing a platform starved for processing power and that needs to sip electricity then it makes a huge difference.
Penti - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Most of the platform are actually C/C++ libraries and programs, where you glue your app in isn't that relevant. You need a framework for any mobile phone platform, but the resources that framework glues into thats where a lot of performance comes from and it's in C/C++. It's better to have an accelerated framework running on a virtual machine then an unaccelerated C++ one. Rendering of menus and such would be slower on the last one. Besides on Symbian it's QT-framework that rules now, not some ultra customized embedded framework. Memory requirements have gone up there too, but capacity have grown even more. Besides nobody wanted to write mobile apps to some badly designed and awkward C++ framework and API. Java syntax was a good choice therefor.taltamir - Monday, September 13, 2010 - link
the fact that there are more considerations than just programming language when it comes to power and speed are obvious, as is that you could make a java app thats faster than a C++ app.Neither make java a good choice.
BTW, I didn't personally comment about the issue of jerkiness, I was going on a tangent as a reply to what meatless said (specifically the socalled "java FUD")
zizagoo - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
It's an Android problem. The cause of the "jerkiness" is that unlike iOS/WebOS/WP7, Android doesn't have a gpu accelerated ui. They supposedly did this because the G1 wouldn't support it at the time.http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=...
Gingerbread, which is supposedly showcased next month, should fix this.
deputc26 - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Thankyou! this is exactly it, give the man a medal. I don't know why Anandtech never mentions this. It should be ubiquitous knowledge in the android community.meatless - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Also, the 3-4X speed difference on non-mobile platforms is greatly exaggerated. I always find http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ a fun and FUD-free site.Iksy - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Greatly exagerated? That site shows a 2.3x speed difference and it's comparring against Sun's fastest most optimizing version against g++. The unoptimized version is over 20x slower, you'll find it near the bottom of the list for compares. I do find it interesting that while they're satisfied with using an open source C (gnu) compiler, they do not include the open source java interpreter. They also do not include the Intel C compiler, even though they easily could and include the Intel Fortran compiler.In other words, is still in the ball park so say Java is 3-4x slower than the equivalent c++ code.
dvinnen - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Wait, so the Java syntax is what is slowing down Android? Because it doesn't run Java, it runs Dalvik.I would also like to see evidence that C++ is 4 times faster. Not saying Java is faster but it is fast enough. I say that as a Java developer who doesn't like the language and would rather use slower languages like Python
medi01 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Java's JIT could create code that is faster than C/C++. Because unlike C++ compiler, it also has runtime info about executables, it could know for sure, which of the if branches is more likely to be true, for instance.The only part of Java that was much slower than C++ was (and I think still is) sin/cos related functions. Since Sun had to guarantee "runs anywhere" with the exactly the same results, instead of using CPU's features they "manually" calculate it.
Voo - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Well java WAS slow - around ten years ago, but people have already made up their mind, it's hard to get new ideas into some heads. Though the lack of a JIT in dalvik hampered performance, but that's hardly something where you can blame the language for..Ah, just like all those people who still believe that manual memory managment is inherently faster than GC..
medi01 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Java is not inherently slower than C++, but it does need more memory.The problem with Androids up to 2.2 was Dalvik VM that had no JIT.
designerfx - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
what a brilliant troll, or accidental. I'm not sure, but plenty of debunked this.What really brings down the entire samsung line of phones is that the GPS is horrible. I have one myself, and have the same issue on the vibrant as on the epic. Samsung really screwed the GPS up bigtime.
lwatcdr - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Well when faced with such a brilliant technical argument like "but Java sucks. Big time" what can one say.http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/01/16/space.mar...
Is an article from back in 2004 about how those idiots at NASA used Java to control the Spirit rover on Mars.
If only they had you available to show them how to do right.
Man I get sick of this crap. I heard the same thing way back when. People complaining when programmers used high level languages to write programs instead of assembly.
The thing is that it was all silliness just as it is now.
What really counts isn't the language but the programmer using it.
Android's speed issues tend to because by.
1. Not using the GPU for the UI
2. Using multitasking from the start.
IOS has only just now gotten official multitasking and even that is limited.
But really just drop the
Iksy - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Umm... to be clear, this is just the user interface used on Earth, which is something Java does well. The rovers themseves are controlled using VxWorks RTOS. VxWorks itself is written in C or C++ I believe.Ethaniel - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Well, it's not the kind of technical argument everyone would like, but it gets to the point. Anand reviewed like half a dozen of Android phones, all with the same problem. So, or the companies are making exactly the same mistake with each and every model they launch, or Java is to blame. And no, I'm not trolling because I do want to Android to succeed. A troll is based on hate, and it usually doesn't check back the thread he/she started. And you haven't seen a single insult in this thread, right? ;)ktwebb - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Sounds like an IPhone Fanboy that is trying his best to be subjective. Samsung actually did not get it right performance wise. They use an antiquated and slow file system. For a pleasurable UI experience on Android, the N1 is still king, especially on 2.2. The only way the samsung galaxy variants fly is with root access and ext2, 3 or 4 fixes. there are GPS fixes as well however where Samsung let down actually is in the UI with Touchwiz and their ridiculous homage to Apple. No wonder this twit liked it. Android people IMMEDIATELY change the launcher. Anyway, the Hardware on the Galaxy S is excellent. Samsung did their best to eff it up and only with tweaks and root level access is it a really strong phone. Google and Androids main problem is OS sprawl and fragmentation. They get that cleaned up and the IPhone 4 is a distant second mobile OS. Right now, with the clear advantages Android phones have, specifically customization and an open source community among others, it's essentially a wash. It's about what you prefer and are comfortable with. I'm an Android guy because I like to make my phone do what I want it to, not what Jobs wants my phone to be.StealthX32 - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
ktwebb, I don't think Anand reviewed it w/ the ext2 FS hack/fix (whatever you want to call it). The UI speed is fine from the factory; it's much better than the EVO 4G (even with Froyo) and on par w/ the N1, just not as good as it *could* be once you root it and fix the filesystem.ktwebb - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
N1 Froyo is faster than stock Galaxy S Variants. And yeah, he didn't review with hacks and I certainly understand why he wouldn't. Shouldn't need them. But that is a Samsung issue, not Android. Samsung has the potential for a very good handset with the Galaxy S. They are trying their best to eff it up though. I haven't played with the EVO but had android phones since the G1 inception. The N1 was the best UI experience after Froyo was pushed. And far better than any IPHone I've used, although my experience with 4 is limited.Dane74 - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
My Epic is fine but the GPS is not, and the fixes out there for the other Galaxies are irrelevant to Epic, which has new, different, and in many ways, worse, GPS problems. Samsung has issued one single recommendation for the poor GPS on Epic: turn on cellular tower location estimates. Some fix!I am no iPhone fan. i can't stand them or the people who use them. But the GPS problems on the Epic are real. For starters look at the pics posted in this review. They are consistent with what anyone who tests the GPS finds -- the GPS reception hardware itself on Epic is weak. Look at that satellite strength.
Epic's other GPS problem is that frequent resets are required, as Epic does not discard expired GPS assistance data, and does not attempt to get new assistance data, often causing complete inability to get a GPS fix, even when many satellites are in view.
Desslok - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
<b><q>I am no iPhone fan. i can't stand them or the people who use them...</b></q>WOW! Way to be an asshat of epic scale. Just because I have an iPhone you can't stand me? I thought only Apple users were supposed to be such arrogant asses?
medi01 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I also can't stand you. In my opinion by agreeing to use hardware with unbelievably draconian restrictions (not being able to copy stuff from my own device? not being able to copy stuff to my own device from more than one source? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?), you are asking form even more crap in the future.Desslok - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Yet again the users on this site do not understand how most people use their phones and their way is the only way. Like bearxor has said in a later post most people take the phone out of the box and start using it. They don't root it and then start tweaking it.For what i use my phone for the iPhone works for me, am I saying it is the best phone/OS of all time of course not; it has it flaws. I am also not bashing anyone who uses any other type of phone/OS, It is a freakin phone/OS people it isn't that important.
Medi01-Hate if you want, but the iPhone works for me. Have fun judging others on material things, let me know how that works out for you in the future.
ktwebb - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I didn't say the GPS problems weren't valid. I just mentioned fixes were available. Multiple "Fixes" Unsatisfactory to ship their phones with broken GPS but that's Samsung. But once again, that's a hit on Samsung, not on the OS.bearxor - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Why does everyone on sites like this think their way is the only thing people will do. Do you really think a lot of people are going to buy a phone and then root it and then tweak it?No!
Most people are going to buy the phone, take it out of the box and begin using it. Heck, before switching to an iPhone in 2008, I used a Treo 700wx for two years, the longest I had ever used a WinMo device at a time, because I just got so sick and tired of HTC's crap. I was always having to reset the phone. Switch out ROMs on the phone. I never knew if a phone call was going to come through on a PPC-6600 or PPC-6700. Enough already!
I know that makes me less of a "geek" but I was cooking roms and flashing devices before a lot of people even discovered regular phones with qwerty keyboards on them.
I found this review to be a great example of what I would expect of the phone if I were to march down to a Sprint store, picked one up and started using it right away. That's all I really want from my phone. For it to do the functions that it's advertised to do.
nermie - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I think you also forget what website we are at. Just last a couple weeks ago there was an article on tuning your memory using a custom made bios. Every article on computer hardware usually covers the intended consumer point of view first, and then gets right into dissecting and tweaking the hardware to squeeze every last drop of performance out of it. Seems like kind of a shame to not at least mention how much faster the phone can be if you do a few things such as overclock the cpu or a file system fix.erple2 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Normally, I'd completely agree with you. However, taking the phone as a complete package, I think that Anand has done a good job in reviewing the <i>phone</i> as you get it, and not post tweaking.While it may be common to buy a motherboard and CPU then tweak it until you squeeze the maximum amount of power out of it, it's less common to do that with a laptop.
Similarly, not very many people buy a Dell then go into overclocking options with it (since it's not necessarily as easy to do on a Dell than a home-assembled computer).
But I do agree that there's a myriad of things that can be done to the phone after the fact. I'd wager that it's possible Anandtech is coming up with a "Android tweaking" article at some point in the future that goes into some small detail of the things that are available to the end user, and how those can impact performance of the phone to the end user.
ktwebb - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
That's fair. I've said in multiple posts Samsung blew it releasing this phone before properly QA testing. I think you missed my point however.dvinnen - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Don't like the fan boy accusations but he does bring up a point. With the lag fixes it does benchmark a lot faster (Look up One Click Lag Fix on the market, will root your phone and install the lag fix and GPS fix). Have to wonder how it will fly with 2.2MJinZ - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
It's an interesting review since it starts out with some good words and ends with, what my impression is - well it's a POS.And I'm sorry Samsung, but a phone needs to last more than 5 minutes and a GPS needs to work. We really could not care about it looking like a damn iPhone. Hell, people buy iPhones for that.
Try harder Sammy.
zizagoo - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
There seems to be an agreement amongst high-end Android users that battery life is terrible within the first two weeks, but then significantly improves after the battery has been conditioned. It's possible that due to the short review period, this never get's a chance to happen, causing an under report of the battery life.It would be fascinating if you did a follow up later on to determine if this is true.
StealthX32 - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
The functional battery life is pretty long. I can pull 1.5-2 days if my use is limited (maybe 20 minutes of calling, 20 or so text messages, little to no browsing). The Hummingbird really does sip power when it's idle.If you're hammering away at it for 4 straight hours, then the battery life is pretty poor.
strikeback03 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
But other than emergency situations, are you really going to have a phone like this and only use it that little? I've mentioned before, I wish they could come up with some type of "real-life" battery test that would include a certain amount of talk, text, web, video, etc. per hour. For example, I would be surprised if the battery in my HTC Diamond lasts much more than 2 hrs in 3G browsing, but in my usual day (5-10 min talk, 80-100 text, few MMS, 10-15 min web, many times turned on to check the time) it generally has 20-30% still showing when I put it back on the charger after 15-16 hrs.Dane74 - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
On battery break in: with Lithium based batteries, break in is negligible. The observed better second week battery life comes from playing with less features.I expected better battery life than my spouse's Evo, due to more efficient power usage of the Epic's processor as well as its screen. We found the battery life to be equal, my impression from behavior of both in weak signal areas is that Epic's voice, 3g and its 4G reception is slightly worse than Evo which will cause some additional drain on power.
gvaley - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
My personal experience (6+ device batteries so far, including phones, cameras) shows a 1,8-2x battery life improvement after 3-4 charge-discharge cycles. And it's definitely not due to unbalanced usage. The same holds true for both Lithium-Ion and Lithium-Polymer batteries, although the more I think about it, the more I convince myself that Lithium-Polymer are more susceptible to break in.Ratman6161 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I've got an original Droid now running Android 2.2. A while back I picked up a couple of spare batteries cheap online. These are identical to the one that came in the phone. When I swapped in one of the new batteries it was showing up as fully charged already. I started rotating the three batteries every Friday to keep approximately equal usage on each one.I never really noticed any difference. Then again I wasn't specifically looking for that and did not do any kind of test.
AdamPflug - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
I have the Samsung Captivate (not the Epic 4G), but it's still in the galaxy S line. I noticed that I needed at least 3 complete charge/discharge cycles before I got reasonable battery life out of the phone. It wasn't a decrease in usage either, I made sure I kept my usage patterns consistent.My experience with the Captivate now is that I can listen to podcasts all day, read all my work email, do some web browsing, and still have around 60% battery left at 10pm. If they could just fix the GPS issues with a software patch (they say they're going to sometime in September, along with an upgrade to 2.2) the I'll be extremely happy.
Also, I've been pretty happy with the brightness of my Captivate, I wonder if the review took into account the separate brightness settings for the browser app?
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
These results were all recorded after discharging the phone more than 3 times (each test was run multiple times). Note that 4 hours of continuous usage can often times yield a pretty long real world battery life depending on your usage pattern. That being said, a phone that gets 8 hours in our tests will obviously last longer with the same usage pattern. While the Epic 4G's battery life may be sufficient, it's lower than we'd like to see for a modern smartphone.And thank you for the correction on the browser brightness setting, that's why the screen looked dimmer at full brightness by comparison. In that shot the Epic 4G's screen was set to approximately 20% brightness. I've made the appropriate correction in the review and credited you with the heads up :)
Take care,
Anand
gvaley - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Anand, the poor battery life is probably due to Sprint. Other reviews (of the European 3G galaxy S) show maybe the best battery life among Androids. Check this test from a very reputable site: http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-i9000-galaxy-s-fu...Alexo - Thursday, September 9, 2010 - link
I agree with gvally, this discrepancy between the results should be explained.jasperjones - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Ultimately if you’re trying to give someone a more iOS-like experience on an Android phone, Samsung gets the job done.more iOS-like experience? do not want
dvinnen - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Luckly because it is Android and you can do what you like with it there are home screen replacements on the market. I use the open source ADW replacement and got rid of the iOS knock off crapspathotan - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
TouchWiz is the sole reason im avoiding these phones. HTC still has the best UI and their devices run good without having to root and use bootloaders.The device is a total failure if you have to root it and use hacks/bootloaders to get it to perform "good".
StealthX32 - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Hey, at least it's easy to root... ;)It's 2 steps versus 30 or so that you need to on the EVO 4G.
That said, I do agree with you; the product should be judged as released.
Dane74 - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Sprint has excellent warranty. they handle it in store themselves for warrantable problems for free for one year even if you purchase NO protection plan. So rooting it, which voids warranty if detected, carreis some risk of a lost substantial benefit.sprockkets - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
That's the problem with Samsung. Motorola's CEO (or someone high up) called them Samesung. They are like the KIA of smartphones, copying Honda.That being said, I might check up on the Vibrant. Then again, a more vanilla G2 is just around the corner.
afkrotch - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Actually, phones like these have been out a while now. Just not in the US. The Galaxy S looks the same most of the other Samsung phones that have been on the Korean market for the past 1-2 years.I would have much preferred the Samsung Haptic Pop, than the Galaxy S. Sadly, we'll never see the Haptic Pop in the states. I have the T-Mobile Galaxy S. It feels too much like an iPhone. Only thing I like, the AMOLED screen.
bearxor - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Sure you haven't been watching too much 30 Rock? In the beginning of Season 3, Will Arnett's character claims that he 'sold the E (in GE) to Samsung. They're Samesung now."That's the only place I've heard anything like that.
bigboxes - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
As a Palm Pre user I know the pain of poor battery life. I thought the Super AMOLED display was suppose to improve batter life by almost double over the EVO. What happened? As far as the Pre goes I have mine o/c to 800Mhz and it's very snappy. Add the almost cooperative nature of Palm to the homebrew community means that I can customize my phone to make up for the OS shortcomings. The GPS on the Pre is craptastic as well. Hopefully, Palm will improve on these when they release new models this fall.dvinnen - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I bet it has to do with the 4G/WiFi-MAX radio. I have a Vibrant and the battery life is fineMilind - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I think that's possible since my Vibrant gives me about 6-7 hours of battery life with full brightness and the screen consumes about 70-80% of my battery as per the battery usage view. I don't care since I'm typically around a charger so I set it at max brightness. But if I were to lower the brightness, I should easily be able to go for the whole day. Even at 0 brightness, the screen is surprisingly usable.I have also noticed that the only thing that drains battery faster than the screen (in my G1 as well), is if it has to hunt for a phone signal. At one time, my G1 was draining battery in about 2-3 hours, which was awful even by the G1's sorry battery life standard. It turned out to be because I was using a SIM card of a provider that had very poor coverage at the location. As soon as I swapped the SIM with another carrier, the battery life went back up. So it's possible that Sprint's causing the phones to go back and forth between 2g, 3G and 4G signals causing the battery to drain faster. It might be worthwhile to go into the Mobile Networks settings and use only 2G network to check the battery drain. Obviously this would just be to test the hypothesis. It would be stupid to buy this phone and use it only in 2G mode.
jamawass - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
The GPS on my Pre Plus is perfect.Voldenuit - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Thanks for reviewing the Galaxy S, Anand!Probably the most requested review here. I'm actually glad that the battery life turned out to be abysmal - it helped me make up my mind about an otherwise desirable phone.
Let me explain: My fiancée had two dead Samsung Blackjacks within one warranty period. My Samsung Spinpoint F1 is dying. My mother just junked a dead Samsung TV (5 yrs old). To be perfectly frank, I have ZERO confidence in Samsung products, and the build quality of the Galaxy gives me no reason to revise that opinion.
Fortunately, the poor battery life gives me a legitimate excuse not to buy this, and I won't feel like I am missing out on anything because of a possibly irrational aversion. Sure, it's nice to have a fast phone, but by the time apps come out that make meaningful use of this, there will be *much* faster phones on the market. Buying for future-proofing is not a smart idea in the smartphone space.
Voldenuit - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
PS Still looking for that 'perfect' (Android) smartphone. Evo 4G is too big and power hungry, Droid X plans are too expensive.Something like the recently announced Droid Defy might work, if only it didn't have eFuse, Motoblur, and wasn't tied to a sucky carrier.
I'm perfectly willing to wait 1 year on a post-paid phone plan for a decent phone to come out. Even the Torch would work for me, though probably not for the missus.
First and foremost for me is that it should be a phone above all things and 'smart' second. If you're going to chew the battery life tweeting and watching youtube on it, then have no juice to call AAA when you break down on the highway, it's useless to me. Integration with social apps is also something of a nightmare for me - there are people I may enjoy hanging out with on social occasions, but that doesn't mean I wish to know what they are eating, thinking, drinking or (bodily function deleted) during office hours. Somebody, please get this. So far, only Blackberry seems to. Fortunately, most other BB users are sober/boring enough that BBM is a good way to communicate for the dour, buttoned-down crowd. :p
Mike1111 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I think it's worth mentioning that SuperAMOLED is officially a Samsung smartphone exclusive until 2012 (IMHO mostly because of limited AMOLED manufacturing capacity until the new Samsung OLED fab is up and running in 2012) . So you won't see it anywhere else in the near future. So please people, don't bitch about missing Super AMOLEDs in every smartphone that's coming in the next 18 months...Mike1111 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Anand, your mixing your SGX versions when mentioning the OMAP3630. One time it's SGX535, the next SGX530. I think SGX530 is correct.Milind - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
>>Thankfully Samsung provides a setting to sync these two so both the screen and buttons go blank at the same time, but it’s just not enabled by default.
>>
I have seen this posted a couple of times, but I can't find any such setting on my Vibrant. Is it on the Epic? Can someone provide a little detail on exactly where this setting is? The timeout for lighting the buttons is just too short and very annoying.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
On the Epic it's here:Settings -> Sound & Display -> Keyboard timeout (last option in the list) -> Same as screen timeout
Take care,
Anand
Milind - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Thanks Anand. That option is not present on the Vibrant. The last option on the Vibrant for Sound and Display is TV out. Hopefully, it will be part of the Froyo update.Chaitanya - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
GPS receiver on almost all Samsung phones is bad. Its no surprise that Epic 4G is an epic fail when it came to GPS performance.medi01 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
The Apple fanboism in anandtech's articles is getting more and more annoying... :("The move to Super AMOLED is key. With Super AMOLED the Epic 4G improves outdoor usability significantly."
To bad we can't see it on the pictures you've made.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I believe this shot illustrates the huge improvement over standard AMOLED displays:http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/Samsun...
Glare/reflections have been reduced significantly.
Take care,
Anand
pervisanathema - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
noticed this on page 2:"The back cover snaps off with relative ease revealing the 1500mAh battery, a microSD card slow."
I'm sure you mean slot instead of slow. :)
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Thanks for the correction :)Take care,
Anand
DoubleVanos - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Battery life seems fine on my AT&T Captivate to be honest. It can easily go on for a full day with a lot of usage. It must be a Sprint thing I guess.MaxMax - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
WTF !I don't know why always Sprint and Verizon gets the best Android phones comparing to T-Mobile and AT&T !!
This one have flash LED while the other galaxy s doesn't !!
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Haha yep, fixed! Thank you!vision33r - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
There's a very good reason RIM and Apple have lower clocked CPUs, Apple's A4 processor is running only at 60% of it's full clock speed.Battery life.
Remember smartphones are still phones and talk time is more important than mhz.
Most Blackberrys still run under 500MHZ and they do email, web browsing, and light apps just fine.
Why would Android need 1.2GHZ just to run apps? What apps need 1.2GHZ?
That's just not efficient design for mobile apps.
bplewis24 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I must own the only Android phone that is just as fast as my girlfriend's iPhone3GS or my colleagues iPhone4 with no more in the way of choppy animations and stuttering than they have.Brandon
dk99 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Why is it so easy to see the pixels on the epic's screen? It seems annoying.Look at the first picture on the display page on Anand's article.
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/Samsun...
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
The camera/lighting plus running the screen at full brightness exaggerates pixel pitch a bit but remember this device has the same resolution as the Nexus One but with a larger screen.Take care,
Anand
dk99 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I had a chance to check out an Epic 4g at the local sprint store and compared it to the Evo screen. The pixels were more easily seen on the Epic and it did bother me, but I guess it may not bother others as much.Here is a picture from another review site demonstrating the pixels:
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/201...
Anand, Thank you for a great website.
Aigoo - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Pentile RGBGhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family
:(
pvdw - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
You mention the problem with jerkiness on Android phones, but I find my Desire is wonderfully smooth. It's almost exactly the same hardware as the Incredible, but with better build quality, and I've found no SMS scrolling problems.My Desire is unbranded, so there's no junk from operators like Sprint, etc. installed. Maybe this makes a difference?
And I manage to easily get a days worth of business use out of it - remote access, phone calls, web, etc. 30 hrs on lighter use.
I sure would love to have a better gpu, like the Galaxy S, and, more importantly, a screen that I can see in daylight without squinting.
joncat - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I wouldn't say that the SGX 540 is a waste of hardware today. While there are nowhere near the amount of 3d games that IOS has, there are several high quality titles that run great on the galaxy s. Need for Speed Shift and the Sims 3 HD by EA, NOVA, Sandstorm, Assasin's Creed, Hero of Sparta, Asphalt5, to name a few by Gameloft all run great at native resolution, which can't be said for phones like the EVO and Incredible that run on the Snapdragon SOC.Mumrik - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I absolutely love that we're back to using Quake 3 as a GPU performance benchmark.It stuck around for a long ass time in the first place and now it's back :-D
Mumrik - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Anand, is there a reason you don't test standby battery life?It's a pretty essential number...
Even if it prevents you from getting the review up fast, you could always just post the review and add the data later after averaging out 2-3 tests.
SomeAudioGuy - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Ok, so I've had an Epic 4G for about three weeks now. Battery life is completely on par for any other smartphone in this segment.I did switch my background to a darker one (the tent with star trails), but other than that I've done very little to mod the device. I don't even use ATK or juicedefender, and I use the built in auto backlight setting to manage brightness. I did not use any 4G today.
I pulled the phone off my charger at 7am, it's 4pm now. I streamed two hours of Pandora, made one 30 minute phone call and three 5 minute phone calls. Took three pictures and uploaded them to twitpic, have been using Tuiteur, facebook, and checking email on 4 different gmail accounts (with background sync enabled). Spent five minutes yelping a spot for lunch. Played about 15 minutes worth of games (GalCon Flight Control, and Simple Dice), helped debug a wireless router (which required about 20 minutes of wi-fi use), and just spent the last 5 minutes looking up geocaches in my area.
My battery is at 35%.
I would term my use as "moderate".
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the battery life on the Epic 4G. Nothing at all for a phone this powerful and with a screen this large.
GPS is a pain, but I find if I turn off GPS throughout the day, and turn it back on before I start an app that requires GPS, i get locks fast enough, and I'm usually down to about 3 meters accurate.
Maybe it's just the signal in Anand's area, but I've gotten better battery life with both EVO and Epic, and even though we TECHNICALLY don't get 4G in LA, when you find pockets of 4G access we're currently getting 4+Mbps down.
Lastly if you're going to review a keyboard slider phone, maybe give the phone to someone who isn't quite so lit on iPhones, and likes to use a hardware keyboard? Just a thought? Exactly TWO sentences are spent on what is quite possibly one of the best keyboards on the market today. No small feat considering this is NOT an HTC phone. No mention of the dedicated number row (who really likes pushing a function key)? No comparison to any other hardware keyboards? Really? Nothing?
Dane74 - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
not ot call BS, on your GPS findings butt eh are out of wahck with all the testing using testing applicaitons. There are several serious problems with Epics GPS. And actually a number of them show up becasue of switching the GPS off. Go to XDA, or androidforums and you will see discussions.'
Your 3 meters accurate is Epic fooling you since it has already been shown the Epic is cooking those numbers..
Look at the pictures published by anantech, or others. Pictures of side by side comparisons showing nubmer of satellites used by the Epic show the serious problem.
SomeAudioGuy - Monday, September 20, 2010 - link
Hey Dane74,Here's the deal. I've had the phone for three weeks BEFORE it was officially released (I also write for a tech blog). You can look at pictures of SOMEONE else using metric apps, and trying to tally measurements in lab-like conditions, or you can use the phone.
You know what, lets look at Anand's pic. Next to the Nexus 1, it's off by 30m, but has found one additional satellite over the N1. It's only locked to 3 satellites, but is reading better signals from the other satellites it hasn't locked. SO this is probably not a hardware issue (if we're to base EVERYTHING on one pic published by a reviewer that doesn't seem to like this phone that much).
I GeoCache A LOT. Using the GPS in the phone to geocache in really challenging environments to get good satellite line of sight (like the canyons in LA), I'm still within 5 meters. This is comparing the on screen data to map and compass.
Samsung might have issues, but it isn't "Fooling" me. They haven't written any malicious software, they aren't trying to hurt you, they aren't trying to trick you, they aren't evil-ly twiddling their fingers laughing "Muah-ha-ha" style at their customers while petting white cats. They've admitted they have some software issues, and are working on a patch.
My locks do take longer than my EVO, but are CONSIDERABLY faster than my Fascinate (Yes. I have all of these phones.) If the EVO is more accurate, I can't tell when I'm outside or doing turn by turn navigation. Truthfully, for all of the advantages that the Epic offers over any other phone, if it's only accurate to 4 meters and the iphone is accurate to 2 meters, the iphone can STILL shove it. I'm driving/walking/riding a bike NOT engaging in surgical missile strikes...
As to whether or not turning GPS on and off creates problems, I can't say. I haven't had any of these issues. My issues usually stem from not having good line of sight (like when I'm downtown).
Jeff7181 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Very helpful review... I almost bought one of these. I was hoping with the AMOLED the battery life would be better than the Evo 4G since it actually turns off black pixels from what I hear. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to help. Looks like I'll be keeping my Curve a while longer.michael.gulde - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
Didn't see much about ports on this article does it have a hdmi port?MrMaestro - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
The i9000 (international version), which I assume is the same as the Epic, has a micro-USB port. Samsung has developed a micro-USB to HDMI cable but apparently they took the Galaxy S off its compatibility list on their website, so, I think the answer is essentially no. Still, the cable isn't out yet so we'll see.DigitlDrug - Thursday, September 9, 2010 - link
Hi Anand,Thanks for another great review. I'm curious re. the supposed GPS software fix Samsung is cooking up.
Supposedly the Epic was supposed to ship with this "fix" or had at least been validated.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/18/samsung-says-gp...
If you are able to dig up any additional info (maybe prod the engadget boys to see if they're testing methods are as exacting as yours, and what soft. ver they have) can you please update the article or drop in a news blurb?
(I'll admit this is a big one for me, GPS is the one sticking point as I realy heavily on it.)
Thanks,
- J.
fookxixi - Friday, September 10, 2010 - link
The 30m/98.4feet GPS accuracy is a well-known bug. It won't go larger nor smaller. But from my google maps, the accuracy is definitely much better than 30m, probably ~5m. My friends' Epic don't have GPS problem either. You can not rely on the accuracy shown on some test apps.Dane74 - Monday, October 18, 2010 - link
The Epic has such widely GPS problems it is an entire section on Epic GPS issues in the Wikipedia article on it. If you are new to smart-phones, the GPS seems ok, If you know how good GPS has been on smart-phones for the past couple of years, you realize how bad Epic's is. And the picture shows the really low signal, that is the root of the problem on all the Epics.You are new to smart-phones, that is why you think the poor GPS on Epic is ok.
ELT0R0 - Saturday, September 11, 2010 - link
I've had my Epic basically since launch day, and I've noticed (and found others at xda and androidforums) that the phone has issues with both the standard 3g data and general reception.First thing is that for some reason the phone is constantly "without a signal", meaning that for some reason it is constantly searching for a cell signal (GSM?), even in areas with great reception. This can be 'fixed' by toggling airplane mode right after initial boot, and it might even alleviate some of the battery issues since the phone is no longer searching for a signal.
Second big issue is that the 3g upload data seems to be capped at 150 kbps. I have yet to see/hear/read any Epic capable of uploading faster than that on 3g. Even with full bars in the dead of night where I've been able to hit 1700 kbps download, I still get stuck at 145 kbps upload. I know for sure that my Pre before hand could easily hit 400-500 kbps under similar conditions.
Even in the review it looks as if Anand was also hitting the 3g upload wall, but it wasn't as apparent as it appeared to just be a reception issue since the area normally only gets 500 kbps U/D and the down speed at the time of testing only hit 300 kbps.
Anand, is there any way you can test these further?
Hrel - Sunday, September 12, 2010 - link
It's too bad you didn't include the DroidX in the comparison pictures. Hopefully you will when you get the Verizon version.quickbunnie - Monday, September 13, 2010 - link
"I will say that I no longer have the problem where 4G performance is worse than Sprint’s 3G in my area. I usually get around 0.5/0.5Mbps on 3G, so there’s a noticeable performance increase when WiMAX is enabled."Are you sure you are getting 0.5Mbps up on 3g?
There have been no posters with speed tests that get more than about ~150kbps up on any Epic 4G phone, even when side-by-side tests of an Evo will get 700+ kbps.
http://androidforums.com/samsung-epic-4g/166945-lo...
PubicTheHare - Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - link
Anand,If you look at the XDA site you will see mention of a "lag fix" for all Galaxy S variants (US and International versions) that converts what some of the XDA guys are calling an inefficient file system.
Supposedly, the "lag fix" - there are multiple ones out there - converts the Samsung file system to something else (I believe to EXT2) and users are reporting Quadrant benchmarks that go from 800s (stock) to over 2000 post-lag-fix.
I would love for a brief commentary on this and, if possible, a word from Samsung (though I doubt they'd admit to anything).
Great review. I just got the Fascinate and love it so far.
jeans_xp - Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - link
AMOLED, www.mobilegoing.comepic11 - Sunday, May 8, 2011 - link
I have had to phone replacements in the past two weeks, working on my third or a differant brad. I can not be the only person with these problems. My first phones web page wouldstick behind the main menu page. I correted it by re passting the wall paper. It would also freze. I removed and re inserted the battery to unlock ad run again. My second phone had a whole set of differant problems. It will consistantly bump three times and send me back to the main menu regardless of which app I am in. A call, web site, a game, in the middle of a email, etc. I have never dropped the phones, I have taken perfect care. This started on each phone shortly after using them for only a few minutes. I can not be the only person with such problems. Sprint just said, bring it back in for a replacement or choose another brand??? How many are being returned. To bad I really like the phone, or the idea of it.?