Yea, I was going to get a Palm Pre... but the cost of the required plan was far more than what I'm willing to spend for a cell phone. I ended up going on Craigslist and getting someone to transfer their SERO plan over to me for $75. Can't really beat $35 a month (after taxes) for 450 minutes, unlimited texting, and unlimited data -- I can deal with using a Palm Treo Pro in the meantime.
As for the Kin, I really like the form factor of the smaller one. However, it will be tough to decide between WebOS and Windows 7 Mobile, assuming HP actually continues development on WebOS.
The WebOS devices have fallen into the same category as the Kin. A nice try, but too little and too late. If the Pre had come out on schedule (two years ago!) they would have kept in the race and likely not have been acquired by HP.
Amazing how everyone is so quick to forget the most flexible and powerful mobile OS, Windows Mobile. Yes, Android comes close, but the roadmap for 3.0 doesn't look good locking down the UI more. Battery life? Why is it my HD2 with a smaller battery gets better battery life than the EVO? They're virtually the same phone hardware wise, just a difference in mobile OS.
I push one button and dial a number to make a call, or I tell it to make a call.
I'd rather be able to use a stylus, than have a capacitive screen that won't allow for precise input.
I can give you lists of people who have very few lockups, and I've seen quite a few Android and Apple phones lockup as well.
My original Motorola Q is still running strong, so are many others.
Activesync/Exchange support has always been best on the windows mobile devices, the VZ Droid STILL can't get push mail fixed. You have to buy a third party app called Touchdown to get it to work semi decently.
Exactly. The average person bought the Motorola RAZR too.
This current trend for marketing a "smartphone" for the masses is leading to a loss of features and flexibility for those of us who truly want a "Pocket PC."
Do you see me ripping on the iPhone for being a horrible design because it doesn't do what I want? No, I don't. All I am doing is pointing out that there are some of us, who don't want to have a locked down, limited, glorified feature phone that has 3 big buttons on the screen because it is supposed to be "thumb friendly."
You ever try to use RDP on a 3" screen? It is hard enough on a 4.3" screen without a stylus.
Its because the Android OS doesn't have any way of completely closing apps once their open. Get Advanced Task Killer and use it every time you sleep your phone. I have seen my battery life go from 4-5 hours to 7-8.
No, even using that in keeping the tasks closed. If you disable sense on the WinMo and go with SPB or use Titanium the battery life difference is even more drastic.
And I've found the opposite, a lot who went to the iPhone and BB were annoyed at the lack of applications and flexibility in the platforms,so they went back to WinMo
I think it says something when the best feature of an OS is that it allows other stuff to be installed over it.
Really, most people don't want to spend the extra money on a bunch of software just to get the OS to a functional state. And it still feels like what it is - a hacked together assembly of programs that have an uneasy truce amongst each other. Unless you need some of the enterprise integration available, there is no way I could recommend a WM 6.x phone to anyone.
And in the same line of thinking as that, calling the iPhone a smartphone is a joke. It is a glorified, and admittedly very well done top end feature phone.
Fist of all, saying the iPhone is not a smartphone is assinine. Second - Look at the scoreboard - WinMo 6 phones are losing ground for a very good reason - they just aren't as nice to use as the iPhone or Android. The battle has already been lost
Really? Was the first gen a smartphone? It couldn't even send MMS messages or multitask at all. My old dumb phones did more than it did.
What have we added? Apps? Great... what does that do for me again? Can I do network packet sniffing? Can I use it as an IR remote for TV's and devices?
I can't plug anything into the iPhone through USB host either on an iPhone.
It is NOT a smartphone, it is a glorified, overpriced feature phone. The sad thing is, WP7 and Android 3.0 are heading down the same path.
Actually, you can use it as a remote. You need an adapter with a custom app, but it can be done.
The iPhone is very much a smartphone. Just ask the enterprises using sales apps and juggling Exchange data. Ask the people using it as part of home automation systems.
Yes, Apple could stand to loosen its app guidelines, but the very definition of a smartphone is one that focuses heavily on functions beyond making calls and receiving text messages, especially if it has robust apps. If anything, Windows Mobile is feeling less and less like a smartphone OS every day, as there are far fewer apps for it now than iOS (and likely Android too) and a narrower range.
It's no longer 2002. We'd like you to join us in an era where you don't need a stylus to make up for bad UIs and bad touchscreens, where you're allowed to have fun on your phone, and where the web is an important part of life, not an afterthought (as it clearly is with Internet Explorer Mobile).
However, there are somethings such as RDP and signatures that will never be "finger friendly" so why are we in such a rush to be complete rid of the stylus?
The iPhone has had exchange issues both in synchronization with the latest phone, and with the first couple generations in "faking" the security policy enforcement for exchange.
Can I push out apps and security policies to an iPhone from a central location? No. Can I use it as a messaging device? By all means.
Yes, Apple has a lot of apps out there, but so many of them are worthless IMHO, Android is doing a bit better with that I'll admit, but they still don't have a great GPS application.
I don't understand how you mean there are far fewer apps for WinMo, as virtually all the old ones still work and are still around, and new ones are still being made. One only has to look at Omarket or the XDA application to see all the new apps out for it.
Question though, the iPhone still doesn't allow for network diag tools like packet capture and such right?
One thing people seem to forget (too...), is the constant sync on android devices with your google services (mails, talk,...), along for most devices with a sync with facebook, flickr and twitter. The iPhone doesn't come close to that (even with the last iOS4), and WM is a laugh in that perspective. Deactivate those syncing (or slow them down), and android devices last much longer, easily one day and a half for my legend.
The Motorola Devour had that Sidekick form factor as well, really liked it quite a bit.
I had it for about a month and a half...the keyboard on it, the general build quality, most everything about it was phenomenal, except for:
the shitty camera--3MP supposedly, no flash, no auto-focus, just crap. lousy reception--the reason I traded it in for a Droid
of course it still hasn't been rooted (or updated past 1.6) so that's pretty disappointing as well. And it looks like Motorola is hellbent on locking down their new phones to completely take the mod/hack/customizing communities out of play.
Android has captured the market for "open" phones (i.e.: open app store, etc.). Apple has the fanboy and zealot market cornered. I can't see very many people choosing WP7 over either of those two.
The arstechnica article from a week or two ago is far better on the topic. This article is written from a fanboy perspective and ignores reality completely. The reality of MS essentially killing Danger after buying them for a few hundred million.
What, a fanboi of a disappearing OS? I personally didn't feel all the internal microsoft bickering had to be included here (it is documented elsewhere) and instead this article was written from a perspective of "Is there anything positive to pull out of this?" And I thought it did that well instead of focusing on the specifics of the phones as not many will be buying them anyway.
So an article about the phone and its features, pros, and cons, but sans-drama is fanboyish? Ars always finds a way to inject drama. All their self-righteous treaties on the ethics of video game reviews, and such.
The article is titled 'a eulogy'. If you want the TMZ version - stick with Ars.
WinMo really does take all those points, and put them in a more business approached user interface, while taking notes from classic IT user requirements.
My TyTn II definitely does everything the KIN, iOS, WebOS, and android phones can, just it's been able to since before them...
Now I can't say it has the flare, GUI or app style. The Microsoft app store is the worst software I ever thought to install. The graphics are something HTC has been holding back forever. Otherwise functionality speaking, I can do anything you can do, just it may take me a day to figure it out.
What it comes down to is what YOU do. I read about 75 RSS feeds daily(long commute.) I also listen to Pandora the whole time. Meanwhile between my feed reader, the browser or browsers I may be running, Pandora, and typically word/excel/foxit, I still make it 5-8 hours constant usage(which translates into a day adding in time I actually have to do stuff IRL) oh and Wifi is on for at least three of those hours.
I upload pictures directly after taking them via email, which is one click from the after-shot menu. Facebook conveniently is on my homescreen(I don't use the other sites so much) as well as my favorite feature, contacts stay as is, until I open them click, the Facebook link, and from the UI I can pick any info I want synced.
Wifi syncing on Activesuck, works(only because there isn't any good open source alternative.) and Google sync keeps my online calendar up to date with stuff I have to do, as well as backs up my contacts. Since I don't text(yea smartphone user so long I've replaced SMS with POP...)backing up messages is my gmail. Plus my backup for microSD is Wifi at home(yea networking try that iOS and android playaz) When I connect to my network, bam my SD is ghosted(as real files) and sync occurs with my file server.
I like the KIN's web app. I really hope that transfers into the WP7 features. Danger definitely had something going for them, hope M$ uses a few hint from there world. The Dell mini 5 is on my next list, but the HD2 is my very next.
I would have to agree to a certain point. I have a LG Incite, Winmo 6.1. I havent seen enough from Android or iOS to switch yet. Ive been multi-tasking for well over a year, can go 2 days without charging with moderate use. I can VPN to my home network via Hamachi, use remote desktop to connect to any computer on the network. Have had SPB Mobile Shell since 3.0.1, recently updated to 3.5.5 - great features, totally customizable UI. WinMo was really great for the IT/professional aspect, but not so great for the average consumer aspect - which is where the money is. Although I have AT&T, that HD2 is next on my list as well, as soon as my contract is up (shortly). As for the KIN, they were aiming for a demographic already covered. Im surprised someone OK'd the release.
WinMo really does take all those points, and put them in a more business approached user interface, while taking notes from classic IT user requirements.
My TyTn II definitely does everything the KIN, iOS, WebOS, and android phones can, just it's been able to since before them...
Now I can't say it has the flare, GUI or app style. The Microsoft app store is the worst software I ever thought to install. The graphics are something HTC has been holding back forever. Otherwise functionality speaking, I can do anything you can do, just it may take me a day to figure it out.
What it comes down to is what YOU do. I read about 75 RSS feeds daily(long commute.) I also listen to Pandora the whole time. Meanwhile between my feed reader, the browser or browsers I may be running, Pandora, and typically word/excel/foxit, I still make it 5-8 hours constant usage(which translates into a day adding in time I actually have to do stuff IRL) oh and Wifi is on for at least three of those hours.
I upload pictures directly after taking them via email, which is one click from the after-shot menu. Facebook conveniently is on my homescreen(I don't use the other sites so much) as well as my favorite feature, contacts stay as is, until I open them click, the Facebook link, and from the UI I can pick any info I want synced.
Wifi syncing on Activesuck, works(only because there isn't any good open source alternative.) and Google sync keeps my online calendar up to date with stuff I have to do, as well as backs up my contacts. Since I don't text(yea smartphone user so long I've replaced SMS with POP...)backing up messages is my gmail. Plus my backup for microSD is Wifi at home(yea networking try that iOS and android playaz) When I connect to my network, bam my SD is ghosted(as real files) and sync occurs with my file server.
I like the KIN's web app. I really hope that transfers into the WP7 features. Danger definitely had something going for them, hope M$ uses a few hint from there world. The Dell mini 5 is on my next list, but the HD2 is my very next.
Kids need educated from their parents not parental control. What's with the control obsession of today's society!? These people think they are liberal because they equate freedom with gun rights. Give me a brake!
The best way to get kids to 'NOT' go looking, is to not tell them not to.
You tell a kid not to touch something you can bet as soon as your back is turned they'll touch it..probably with bad results.
My folks would let me examine most dangerous things (hedge trimmers/knives etc.) while they watched me to make sure nothing bad happend. I'd pick them up then realise there was nothing interesting about them and then put them down and carry on playing.
My parents always had a full booze cabinet (for parties etc.) and never forbid me from drinking as a kid. In fact they encouraged me to drink a small glass of wine or a beer at a special occasion as a small kid. Because of that I was never interested in breaking into the drinks cabinet as a teen and getting slaughtered like a lot of my buddies did that had never been allowed. It was always there for the taking. Whats fun in that?
Forbidden things are what kids want. Dont make them forbidden and they wont be quite so interesting.
If anything, they'd say, "Do it and see" and I'd lose all enthusiasm and excitement for it, be it drinking or anything. No fun at all when nobody cares if you do it or not :P
Seems my parents understood that psychology very well and used it on me. [I still hate beer/any other alcohol]
It was worthless, not at all building on the Danger heritage, a totally failed acquisition with all the people fleeing danger/Microsoft leaving them with nothing and the former owner with 500 million :)
It didn't even have IM features something that was Hiptops main selling point, it didn't build on T-mobiles brand, it didn't even act like a continuum off that tech. It basically failed at being a 50 dollar featurephone. Building on Win CE would be fine, but without an SDK at all, without a common toolkit and framework/API or a way to install apps easily it's just useless. Lots of other misses too.
Like look at Nokia now, they use the QT toolkit for both Symbian and MeeGo devices from now on. Making it easy to get your apps to any phone, even if it's third parties building Symbian and MeeGo phones (Symbian is still used by the japanese makers in Japan). Any phone now days ofcourse also needs a web runtime/widget environment and SDK now days, the Symbian and MeeGo devices will share the same WRT widget SDK and soft.
It's simply not going to work to have 10 different smart phone environments and 10 different development environments with 10 different frameworks and APIs. Which is basically Microsoft's problem now. .NET in all it's glory it won't make the game developers OpenGL ES based games work, they'll have to port to Microsofts OGL ES APIs, they'll have to port to the platform specific APIs, they will not port if they can't get their C/C++ game engines running on the platform. Nokia will have several hundreds of millions of phones running the same developing environment and framework. Microsoft won't even have the niche business products as they will move to custom devices with Win CE6/7 or even old WinMo. I don't think XNA/Silverlight under .NET is a good strategy here, it would have been 4-3 years ago. But why would anyone jump on it today? There best shoot is rather third party mobile development frameworks. Bada is going to have the same problem, but that's an OS supported by the second biggest phone maker. Is Microsoft moving out of the smartphone and consumer devices market? .NET is good, but doesn't the app makers want to reach as many devices as possible? They won't by making .NET mobile apps. Many apps will just come to the most popular platforms and for example Spotify is only released for iOS, Android and Symbian (Symbian C++, ones ported to QT it will of course come to MeeGo too). Apps like Spotify also preferably needs background tasks or real multitasking. Platforms like webOS can garner some development just because of it's former underdog status and technical enthusiasm. Microsoft will be a strictly business decision. Without having a good partner no one will care about the WP7 phones they'll put out. Development is everything. Just like nobody would have cared to put out some games on Android without the NDK. At least players like RIM have the enterprise customers (which they can loose quickly though.). Microsoft hasn't any more. Hoping for XNA/.NET C# games and game engines is probably too much.
Well apps (and good built in features) is everything today. Too small platforms simply won't garner any attention and development. And nobody will develop for 10 different platforms (thus APIs) and several different programming languages. It would probably look something like development wise - Android SDK Java / NDK C/C++, iOS SDK Obj-C, Nokia qt SDK C++ for MeeGo and Symbian. Stuff like Brew will probably largely be ignored and stuff like LiMo will disappear or be largely compatible with Nokias environment. WP7 .NET/XNA/Silverlight SDK will probably be the odd one. Plug-in/Widget developers will have pretty identical environment on all platforms. C++ developers are probably pretty comfortable with both Symbian/MeeGo, Android NDK (you don't have a full compatible c-library there though), they could probably accept the Bada platform ones they get use to the API which is also in C++, as well as the WebOS platform. SDL should probably be runnable in at least Android, Symbian (maybe not natively), MeeGo and WebOS to top that. Java-developers have Android SDK and Blackberry SDK. With their respective APIs and VMs. .NET developers only has .NET compact framework on WinMo/WP7 or third party C# frameworks like Unity game engine which doesn't even target WinMo devices. .NET developers can target one platform, C++ developers can probably target 5 with just 4 APIs. Theres a whole lot of targets now days. I believe much more in Win CE7/Win embedded compact then in WP7 actually. Blackberry won't garner any consumer interest either. I'm unsure about Samsung's approach to release anything, every platform there is including its own too. They got Android, WinMo, Symbian, Bada etc. Nokias approach seems to make more sense. Good thing Motorola went with Android instead of its own though.
Microsoft (or more directly, Terry Myerson ruined any chance the Kin had of being a success. And anybody that blows a half billion dollars into the wind should be fired.
It was just one thing after another. From changing the phone's OS from Java (Original Sidekick OS) to Windows CE causing it to be delayed by 18 months, to its outrageous pricing. Whats sad is that Danger as a company no longer exist really, along with the people that lost their jobs. All because of Mr. Myerson.
One factor which might significantly hamper cloud integration is data caps. AT&T has already moved this way, and it seems unlikely the other carriers won't follow suit. Constantly streaming photos to and from the phone would take up significant additional bandwidth over what is already used for standard services. If they decide to back music or transferred movies up that would be much more a problem. I have ~4GB of music on my phone and wouldn't want to blow a significant chunk of my bandwidth having that all backed up off the SD card, or worse backed up then streamed back to me. Also, there are going to be times (on an airplane, in another country, etc) where you can't/don't want to have a data connection, if everything is in the cloud that significantly impacts the usability of the device for even basic tasks.
I've seen the like of circular packaging before :) In slovenia one mobile carrier used to sell all of its subsidized phones in tin tubes like those. Recently they started to sell mobile Internet packages in a similar form: (link) http://shrani.si/f/f/wD/3ZJg7tbT/itakxl.jpg
The comment, "In addition, there's no settings panel for the entire browser to clear cache, cookies, or history" is incorrect.
From the home screen, swipe left to the apps pane, scroll down and tap "Settings". In "Settings" swipe right to the app-specific settings and select "Browser". In the Browser Settings, you can clear data cache, cookies and history. You can also turn cookies on/off, JavaScript on/off and browse in desktop mode if you have a need for that.
Bought one mostly for the sake of getting rid of my horrible Win 6x phone. The plan is to give it to the wife in the fall when WP7 ships. She's become familiar with it and is really looking forward to getting it.
The phone actually rocks. It's easy to use, does the few things that it does very well, is easy (I said that), the "cloud" offering is something that bigger competitors could learn from.
The Kin turned into a big joke I guess but I just can't get myself to join that bandwagon. I'm sorry but **I LIKE IT**.
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Brentcsi101 - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
someone saying "Droid X" anyone?? But come on... between Android and iOS, there is nothing right now that can compete with them.Diesel Donkey - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
You must have never used a Palm Pre or Pixi.mrjminer - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
Yea, I was going to get a Palm Pre... but the cost of the required plan was far more than what I'm willing to spend for a cell phone. I ended up going on Craigslist and getting someone to transfer their SERO plan over to me for $75. Can't really beat $35 a month (after taxes) for 450 minutes, unlimited texting, and unlimited data -- I can deal with using a Palm Treo Pro in the meantime.As for the Kin, I really like the form factor of the smaller one. However, it will be tough to decide between WebOS and Windows 7 Mobile, assuming HP actually continues development on WebOS.
Stuka87 - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
Why would anybody buy a phone from a company that no longer exist?mrjminer - Thursday, July 15, 2010 - link
..... "assuming HP actually continues development on WebOS."inspire - Friday, July 16, 2010 - link
Palm exists today just as much as Mobil does.mcnabney - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
The WebOS devices have fallen into the same category as the Kin. A nice try, but too little and too late. If the Pre had come out on schedule (two years ago!) they would have kept in the race and likely not have been acquired by HP.aebiv - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
Amazing how everyone is so quick to forget the most flexible and powerful mobile OS, Windows Mobile. Yes, Android comes close, but the roadmap for 3.0 doesn't look good locking down the UI more. Battery life? Why is it my HD2 with a smaller battery gets better battery life than the EVO? They're virtually the same phone hardware wise, just a difference in mobile OS.sprockkets - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
"Amazing how everyone is so quick to forget the most flexible and powerful mobile OS, Windows Mobile."We forgot about it when the iphone and even others at the time made us realize how horrible it was to use.
Only thing keeping WM alive before ver 7 is HTC and their skin.
aebiv - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
Horrible it was to use?How was it horrible?
Quit making generalizations and give some points.
mcnabney - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
Important tools buried within menus.Dependence on a specific computer to sync.
Too damn many things to do just to make a call.
Navigation required a stylus due to tiny menus and icons.
Too many lockups, reboots, battery yanks, and software incompatibilities.
Most devices were EXTREMEMLY unreliable.
Non-existent followed by limited push email support.
I could go on and on....
aebiv - Thursday, July 15, 2010 - link
So make a shortcut where you want it.I haven't synced to a computer in years.
I push one button and dial a number to make a call, or I tell it to make a call.
I'd rather be able to use a stylus, than have a capacitive screen that won't allow for precise input.
I can give you lists of people who have very few lockups, and I've seen quite a few Android and Apple phones lockup as well.
My original Motorola Q is still running strong, so are many others.
Activesync/Exchange support has always been best on the windows mobile devices, the VZ Droid STILL can't get push mail fixed. You have to buy a third party app called Touchdown to get it to work semi decently.
Please, do go on.
kmmatney - Friday, July 16, 2010 - link
If the average person plays with a windows mobile phone and an iPhone at the AT&T store, then they will buy the iPhone - it's that simple.aebiv - Saturday, July 17, 2010 - link
Exactly. The average person bought the Motorola RAZR too.This current trend for marketing a "smartphone" for the masses is leading to a loss of features and flexibility for those of us who truly want a "Pocket PC."
nangryo - Sunday, July 18, 2010 - link
That makes you above average person and under average person I believe.I think you just thin that you are the first right?
What a sad fellow
aebiv - Sunday, July 18, 2010 - link
You don't even make sense here.nangryo - Sunday, July 18, 2010 - link
Living on your dream world eh? Where you assume that everyone is just like youGo then, use your beloved stylus. just don't use it for.... anything else
lol
aebiv - Sunday, July 18, 2010 - link
No, I never said everyone was like me.Do you see me ripping on the iPhone for being a horrible design because it doesn't do what I want? No, I don't. All I am doing is pointing out that there are some of us, who don't want to have a locked down, limited, glorified feature phone that has 3 big buttons on the screen because it is supposed to be "thumb friendly."
You ever try to use RDP on a 3" screen? It is hard enough on a 4.3" screen without a stylus.
mrdeez - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
Its because the Android OS doesn't have any way of completely closing apps once their open. Get Advanced Task Killer and use it every time you sleep your phone. I have seen my battery life go from 4-5 hours to 7-8.aebiv - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
No, even using that in keeping the tasks closed. If you disable sense on the WinMo and go with SPB or use Titanium the battery life difference is even more drastic.Belard - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
MS Mobile was always... garbage. It did some NEAT things, badly. Nothing more.Everyone I know who used WindowsMobile or Blackberrys quickly went to iPhone when the iPhone came out and haven't looked back.
Of course, Apple is screwed up with their attitude issues with the lated iPhone4. Bad design flaw.
aebiv - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
What did it do badly?And I've found the opposite, a lot who went to the iPhone and BB were annoyed at the lack of applications and flexibility in the platforms,so they went back to WinMo
strikeback03 - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
I think it says something when the best feature of an OS is that it allows other stuff to be installed over it.Really, most people don't want to spend the extra money on a bunch of software just to get the OS to a functional state. And it still feels like what it is - a hacked together assembly of programs that have an uneasy truce amongst each other. Unless you need some of the enterprise integration available, there is no way I could recommend a WM 6.x phone to anyone.
aebiv - Thursday, July 15, 2010 - link
And in the same line of thinking as that, calling the iPhone a smartphone is a joke. It is a glorified, and admittedly very well done top end feature phone.kmmatney - Friday, July 16, 2010 - link
Fist of all, saying the iPhone is not a smartphone is assinine. Second - Look at the scoreboard - WinMo 6 phones are losing ground for a very good reason - they just aren't as nice to use as the iPhone or Android. The battle has already been lostaebiv - Saturday, July 17, 2010 - link
Really? Was the first gen a smartphone? It couldn't even send MMS messages or multitask at all. My old dumb phones did more than it did.What have we added? Apps? Great... what does that do for me again? Can I do network packet sniffing? Can I use it as an IR remote for TV's and devices?
I can't plug anything into the iPhone through USB host either on an iPhone.
It is NOT a smartphone, it is a glorified, overpriced feature phone. The sad thing is, WP7 and Android 3.0 are heading down the same path.
Commodus - Saturday, July 17, 2010 - link
Actually, you can use it as a remote. You need an adapter with a custom app, but it can be done.The iPhone is very much a smartphone. Just ask the enterprises using sales apps and juggling Exchange data. Ask the people using it as part of home automation systems.
Yes, Apple could stand to loosen its app guidelines, but the very definition of a smartphone is one that focuses heavily on functions beyond making calls and receiving text messages, especially if it has robust apps. If anything, Windows Mobile is feeling less and less like a smartphone OS every day, as there are far fewer apps for it now than iOS (and likely Android too) and a narrower range.
It's no longer 2002. We'd like you to join us in an era where you don't need a stylus to make up for bad UIs and bad touchscreens, where you're allowed to have fun on your phone, and where the web is an important part of life, not an afterthought (as it clearly is with Internet Explorer Mobile).
aebiv - Sunday, July 18, 2010 - link
Yes, we're improving the UI, that is for certain.However, there are somethings such as RDP and signatures that will never be "finger friendly" so why are we in such a rush to be complete rid of the stylus?
The iPhone has had exchange issues both in synchronization with the latest phone, and with the first couple generations in "faking" the security policy enforcement for exchange.
Can I push out apps and security policies to an iPhone from a central location? No. Can I use it as a messaging device? By all means.
Yes, Apple has a lot of apps out there, but so many of them are worthless IMHO, Android is doing a bit better with that I'll admit, but they still don't have a great GPS application.
I don't understand how you mean there are far fewer apps for WinMo, as virtually all the old ones still work and are still around, and new ones are still being made. One only has to look at Omarket or the XDA application to see all the new apps out for it.
Question though, the iPhone still doesn't allow for network diag tools like packet capture and such right?
nangryo - Sunday, July 18, 2010 - link
That's why you need to wake up and get out of your distorted reality dream ok.aebiv - Sunday, July 18, 2010 - link
Why do you hate someone who has different needs for a mobile phone OS so much?Are you really that insecure that everyone has to use what you use?
brokensoul - Thursday, July 15, 2010 - link
One thing people seem to forget (too...), is the constant sync on android devices with your google services (mails, talk,...), along for most devices with a sync with facebook, flickr and twitter. The iPhone doesn't come close to that (even with the last iOS4), and WM is a laugh in that perspective. Deactivate those syncing (or slow them down), and android devices last much longer, easily one day and a half for my legend.notposting - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
The Motorola Devour had that Sidekick form factor as well, really liked it quite a bit.I had it for about a month and a half...the keyboard on it, the general build quality, most everything about it was phenomenal, except for:
the shitty camera--3MP supposedly, no flash, no auto-focus, just crap.
lousy reception--the reason I traded it in for a Droid
of course it still hasn't been rooted (or updated past 1.6) so that's pretty disappointing as well. And it looks like Motorola is hellbent on locking down their new phones to completely take the mod/hack/customizing communities out of play.
mcnabney - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
The metal case and internal antenna really hurt the Devour. Running a slow chip and old Android OS didn't help either.DigitalFreak - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
Android has captured the market for "open" phones (i.e.: open app store, etc.). Apple has the fanboy and zealot market cornered. I can't see very many people choosing WP7 over either of those two.FATCamaro - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
The arstechnica article from a week or two ago is far better on the topic. This article is written from a fanboy perspective and ignores reality completely. The reality of MS essentially killing Danger after buying them for a few hundred million.Stuka87 - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
I had the same feeling. This article is missing a lot of details, which isn't the norm for this site.strikeback03 - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
What, a fanboi of a disappearing OS? I personally didn't feel all the internal microsoft bickering had to be included here (it is documented elsewhere) and instead this article was written from a perspective of "Is there anything positive to pull out of this?" And I thought it did that well instead of focusing on the specifics of the phones as not many will be buying them anyway.inspire - Friday, July 16, 2010 - link
So an article about the phone and its features, pros, and cons, but sans-drama is fanboyish? Ars always finds a way to inject drama. All their self-righteous treaties on the ethics of video game reviews, and such.The article is titled 'a eulogy'. If you want the TMZ version - stick with Ars.
s1ugh34d - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
WinMo really does take all those points, and put them in a more business approached user interface, while taking notes from classic IT user requirements.My TyTn II definitely does everything the KIN, iOS, WebOS, and android phones can, just it's been able to since before them...
Now I can't say it has the flare, GUI or app style. The Microsoft app store is the worst software I ever thought to install. The graphics are something HTC has been holding back forever. Otherwise functionality speaking, I can do anything you can do, just it may take me a day to figure it out.
What it comes down to is what YOU do. I read about 75 RSS feeds daily(long commute.) I also listen to Pandora the whole time. Meanwhile between my feed reader, the browser or browsers I may be running, Pandora, and typically word/excel/foxit, I still make it 5-8 hours constant usage(which translates into a day adding in time I actually have to do stuff IRL) oh and Wifi is on for at least three of those hours.
I upload pictures directly after taking them via email, which is one click from the after-shot menu. Facebook conveniently is on my homescreen(I don't use the other sites so much) as well as my favorite feature, contacts stay as is, until I open them click, the Facebook link, and from the UI I can pick any info I want synced.
Wifi syncing on Activesuck, works(only because there isn't any good open source alternative.) and Google sync keeps my online calendar up to date with stuff I have to do, as well as backs up my contacts. Since I don't text(yea smartphone user so long I've replaced SMS with POP...)backing up messages is my gmail. Plus my backup for microSD is Wifi at home(yea networking try that iOS and android playaz) When I connect to my network, bam my SD is ghosted(as real files) and sync occurs with my file server.
I like the KIN's web app. I really hope that transfers into the WP7 features. Danger definitely had something going for them, hope M$ uses a few hint from there world. The Dell mini 5 is on my next list, but the HD2 is my very next.
Darth_Bob - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
I would have to agree to a certain point. I have a LG Incite, Winmo 6.1. I havent seen enough from Android or iOS to switch yet. Ive been multi-tasking for well over a year, can go 2 days without charging with moderate use. I can VPN to my home network via Hamachi, use remote desktop to connect to any computer on the network.Have had SPB Mobile Shell since 3.0.1, recently updated to 3.5.5 - great features, totally customizable UI.
WinMo was really great for the IT/professional aspect, but not so great for the average consumer aspect - which is where the money is.
Although I have AT&T, that HD2 is next on my list as well, as soon as my contract is up (shortly).
As for the KIN, they were aiming for a demographic already covered. Im surprised someone OK'd the release.
aebiv - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
HD2 is a great device except for the capacitive screen. The resistive is far more accurate.s1ugh34d - Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - link
WinMo really does take all those points, and put them in a more business approached user interface, while taking notes from classic IT user requirements.My TyTn II definitely does everything the KIN, iOS, WebOS, and android phones can, just it's been able to since before them...
Now I can't say it has the flare, GUI or app style. The Microsoft app store is the worst software I ever thought to install. The graphics are something HTC has been holding back forever. Otherwise functionality speaking, I can do anything you can do, just it may take me a day to figure it out.
What it comes down to is what YOU do. I read about 75 RSS feeds daily(long commute.) I also listen to Pandora the whole time. Meanwhile between my feed reader, the browser or browsers I may be running, Pandora, and typically word/excel/foxit, I still make it 5-8 hours constant usage(which translates into a day adding in time I actually have to do stuff IRL) oh and Wifi is on for at least three of those hours.
I upload pictures directly after taking them via email, which is one click from the after-shot menu. Facebook conveniently is on my homescreen(I don't use the other sites so much) as well as my favorite feature, contacts stay as is, until I open them click, the Facebook link, and from the UI I can pick any info I want synced.
Wifi syncing on Activesuck, works(only because there isn't any good open source alternative.) and Google sync keeps my online calendar up to date with stuff I have to do, as well as backs up my contacts. Since I don't text(yea smartphone user so long I've replaced SMS with POP...)backing up messages is my gmail. Plus my backup for microSD is Wifi at home(yea networking try that iOS and android playaz) When I connect to my network, bam my SD is ghosted(as real files) and sync occurs with my file server.
I like the KIN's web app. I really hope that transfers into the WP7 features. Danger definitely had something going for them, hope M$ uses a few hint from there world. The Dell mini 5 is on my next list, but the HD2 is my very next.
jonup - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
Kids need educated from their parents not parental control. What's with the control obsession of today's society!? These people think they are liberal because they equate freedom with gun rights. Give me a brake!Two thumbs up for lack of parental control!
Finally - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
"A brake"?That's what those parents give their kids, alright. :)
jabber - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
The best way to get kids to 'NOT' go looking, is to not tell them not to.You tell a kid not to touch something you can bet as soon as your back is turned they'll touch it..probably with bad results.
My folks would let me examine most dangerous things (hedge trimmers/knives etc.) while they watched me to make sure nothing bad happend. I'd pick them up then realise there was nothing interesting about them and then put them down and carry on playing.
My parents always had a full booze cabinet (for parties etc.) and never forbid me from drinking as a kid. In fact they encouraged me to drink a small glass of wine or a beer at a special occasion as a small kid. Because of that I was never interested in breaking into the drinks cabinet as a teen and getting slaughtered like a lot of my buddies did that had never been allowed. It was always there for the taking. Whats fun in that?
Forbidden things are what kids want. Dont make them forbidden and they wont be quite so interesting.
SimKill - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
Heh, sounds a lot like mine :PIf anything, they'd say, "Do it and see" and I'd lose all enthusiasm and excitement for it, be it drinking or anything. No fun at all when nobody cares if you do it or not :P
Seems my parents understood that psychology very well and used it on me. [I still hate beer/any other alcohol]
jabber - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
......I was a bit dissapointed that the KIN was killed off so soon.I really wanted a KIN One as I too felt it was a great looking phone. I hate the current smartphones with touchscreens and such.
The KIN One was 'different' and with a bit more development could have offered another way.
Oh well back to the sheeple phones.
Penti - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
It was worthless, not at all building on the Danger heritage, a totally failed acquisition with all the people fleeing danger/Microsoft leaving them with nothing and the former owner with 500 million :)It didn't even have IM features something that was Hiptops main selling point, it didn't build on T-mobiles brand, it didn't even act like a continuum off that tech. It basically failed at being a 50 dollar featurephone. Building on Win CE would be fine, but without an SDK at all, without a common toolkit and framework/API or a way to install apps easily it's just useless. Lots of other misses too.
Like look at Nokia now, they use the QT toolkit for both Symbian and MeeGo devices from now on. Making it easy to get your apps to any phone, even if it's third parties building Symbian and MeeGo phones (Symbian is still used by the japanese makers in Japan). Any phone now days ofcourse also needs a web runtime/widget environment and SDK now days, the Symbian and MeeGo devices will share the same WRT widget SDK and soft.
It's simply not going to work to have 10 different smart phone environments and 10 different development environments with 10 different frameworks and APIs. Which is basically Microsoft's problem now. .NET in all it's glory it won't make the game developers OpenGL ES based games work, they'll have to port to Microsofts OGL ES APIs, they'll have to port to the platform specific APIs, they will not port if they can't get their C/C++ game engines running on the platform. Nokia will have several hundreds of millions of phones running the same developing environment and framework. Microsoft won't even have the niche business products as they will move to custom devices with Win CE6/7 or even old WinMo. I don't think XNA/Silverlight under .NET is a good strategy here, it would have been 4-3 years ago. But why would anyone jump on it today? There best shoot is rather third party mobile development frameworks. Bada is going to have the same problem, but that's an OS supported by the second biggest phone maker. Is Microsoft moving out of the smartphone and consumer devices market? .NET is good, but doesn't the app makers want to reach as many devices as possible? They won't by making .NET mobile apps. Many apps will just come to the most popular platforms and for example Spotify is only released for iOS, Android and Symbian (Symbian C++, ones ported to QT it will of course come to MeeGo too). Apps like Spotify also preferably needs background tasks or real multitasking. Platforms like webOS can garner some development just because of it's former underdog status and technical enthusiasm. Microsoft will be a strictly business decision. Without having a good partner no one will care about the WP7 phones they'll put out. Development is everything. Just like nobody would have cared to put out some games on Android without the NDK. At least players like RIM have the enterprise customers (which they can loose quickly though.). Microsoft hasn't any more. Hoping for XNA/.NET C# games and game engines is probably too much.
Well apps (and good built in features) is everything today. Too small platforms simply won't garner any attention and development. And nobody will develop for 10 different platforms (thus APIs) and several different programming languages. It would probably look something like development wise - Android SDK Java / NDK C/C++, iOS SDK Obj-C, Nokia qt SDK C++ for MeeGo and Symbian. Stuff like Brew will probably largely be ignored and stuff like LiMo will disappear or be largely compatible with Nokias environment. WP7 .NET/XNA/Silverlight SDK will probably be the odd one. Plug-in/Widget developers will have pretty identical environment on all platforms. C++ developers are probably pretty comfortable with both Symbian/MeeGo, Android NDK (you don't have a full compatible c-library there though), they could probably accept the Bada platform ones they get use to the API which is also in C++, as well as the WebOS platform. SDL should probably be runnable in at least Android, Symbian (maybe not natively), MeeGo and WebOS to top that. Java-developers have Android SDK and Blackberry SDK. With their respective APIs and VMs. .NET developers only has .NET compact framework on WinMo/WP7 or third party C# frameworks like Unity game engine which doesn't even target WinMo devices. .NET developers can target one platform, C++ developers can probably target 5 with just 4 APIs. Theres a whole lot of targets now days. I believe much more in Win CE7/Win embedded compact then in WP7 actually. Blackberry won't garner any consumer interest either. I'm unsure about Samsung's approach to release anything, every platform there is including its own too. They got Android, WinMo, Symbian, Bada etc. Nokias approach seems to make more sense. Good thing Motorola went with Android instead of its own though.
Stuka87 - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
Microsoft (or more directly, Terry Myerson ruined any chance the Kin had of being a success. And anybody that blows a half billion dollars into the wind should be fired.It was just one thing after another. From changing the phone's OS from Java (Original Sidekick OS) to Windows CE causing it to be delayed by 18 months, to its outrageous pricing. Whats sad is that Danger as a company no longer exist really, along with the people that lost their jobs. All because of Mr. Myerson.
strikeback03 - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
One factor which might significantly hamper cloud integration is data caps. AT&T has already moved this way, and it seems unlikely the other carriers won't follow suit. Constantly streaming photos to and from the phone would take up significant additional bandwidth over what is already used for standard services. If they decide to back music or transferred movies up that would be much more a problem. I have ~4GB of music on my phone and wouldn't want to blow a significant chunk of my bandwidth having that all backed up off the SD card, or worse backed up then streamed back to me. Also, there are going to be times (on an airplane, in another country, etc) where you can't/don't want to have a data connection, if everything is in the cloud that significantly impacts the usability of the device for even basic tasks.squngy - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
I've seen the like of circular packaging before :)In slovenia one mobile carrier used to sell all of its subsidized phones in tin tubes like those.
Recently they started to sell mobile Internet packages in a similar form:
(link)
http://shrani.si/f/f/wD/3ZJg7tbT/itakxl.jpg
Orbs - Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - link
The comment, "In addition, there's no settings panel for the entire browser to clear cache, cookies, or history" is incorrect.From the home screen, swipe left to the apps pane, scroll down and tap "Settings". In "Settings" swipe right to the app-specific settings and select "Browser". In the Browser Settings, you can clear data cache, cookies and history. You can also turn cookies on/off, JavaScript on/off and browse in desktop mode if you have a need for that.
Smilin - Thursday, July 15, 2010 - link
Bought one mostly for the sake of getting rid of my horrible Win 6x phone. The plan is to give it to the wife in the fall when WP7 ships. She's become familiar with it and is really looking forward to getting it.The phone actually rocks. It's easy to use, does the few things that it does very well, is easy (I said that), the "cloud" offering is something that bigger competitors could learn from.
The Kin turned into a big joke I guess but I just can't get myself to join that bandwagon. I'm sorry but **I LIKE IT**.
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