Is it common for apple to do such a thing? The macbook "pro" really isn't so pro anymore. With that being said, and the difference between the pro's base 13" and macbook 13" being mostly asthetic, can we cound on a small boost to the 13" macbook pros? Maybe an upgrade to 2.6ghz? I understand the difference between 2.4 and 2.6 isn't perceivable to 99% of users, but really...unless you're a girl...or apple head, the macbook pro has lost most of it's lead. The extra 3 hours of battery life, stock 4gb of ram, and the 320m is what made the MBP significantly more attractive than the macbook.
I say apple drops the baseline, and sticks with the MBP. I've never heard of anyone buying the more expensive 13 inch pro because of it's cost.
Interestingly enough most people I know that are buying Apple laptops are actually buying the 13" MacBook Pro. Not because of the aesthetics but because they want a portable yet durable Mac. I'm pretty sure that the aluminum unibody can withstand better the day by day beating than the plastic one.
Apple consistently cripples the one laptop in the "Pro" line that's most likely to leave the house. The dumb glossy screen (with no option for matte), the lack of ExpressCard, the less-than-top-notch processors... they show, once again, that Apple is out of touch with how people actually use various kinds of computers.
It's total hypocrisy: Apple loves to cite "creative, artistic" people as their core users, and yet discriminate against those people with these dumb decisions. Gee, I'm making a documentary film and already have to lug a bunch of equipment into the field. Do I want to bring a giant, 17-inch barge of a computer, or a small durable computer?
Other users aren't served either. I travel. Gee, which computer do you think I'm going to pick, Apple? Everyone knows that a 17-inch (and, realistically these days, a 15-inch) computer is utterly worthless on a plane. But your 13-inch computer has no ExpressCard slot for my 3G data card. It also has a non-removable battery. That's brilliant for the traveler! Good move. Oh, and I can't see what the hell I'm doing because of the idiotic glossy screen.
What we see here is that Apple doesn't care about real computers anymore. Or applications. The future is clear, and when you can simply skim 30% off everyone else's work, why do your own?
Actually....i meant to correct the article about the price...the student discount has been reduced to 50 dollars. I omitted the words "student pricing".
Total amound including student discount=$949 not $899
At present (and very likely for the future), no one is using the 320M chipset other than Apple. A PC maker would have to choose to follow Apple's "no Core i3/i5" route in order to use it, and I just don't see that happening. Still, I'd be very interested in seeing someone do a CULV platform with 320M, or even a SP9300. If one of us gets a MacBook for review, I'll see about having them run our Win7 gaming benchmarks on it as well. :-)
I have one of the 13" MBP's with the 320M. Played Portal on it at native resolution and recommended settings (high/medium) and it had no problems. Also tried Nexuiz at native resolution and ultra high settings and it was not always smooth but definitely playable.
Both where run on OSX, didn't get around to install Windows yet.
Try Microcenter. They are selling the old model for $999, with an instant savings of $200 when you add it to the cart. Doesn't sound like the updates are that great, unless 7 hours of battery just isn't good enough for you.
Its a moderately powerful Mac for under a grand with ~8 hour battery life. It has a place in some peoples homes I don' doubt. I cannot stand the Macbook's screen though. I think my 15" PRO has a crappy screen and people tell me its actually one of the best in laptop land.
Maybe you guys need a little education on how manufacturing and business practices work. Just because you computer nerds read Anandtech and follow the latest and greatest doesn't mean the world works that way. Take this article for instance back in February from Fudzilla:
It basically states that 77%. You read that right 77% of all Intel processors made and shipped were socket 775 just 3 months ago. That percentage will still be greater than 50% by the end of this year. GREATER THAN 50% of all Intel processors made and shipped by December 2010 will still be socket 775.
By the way, just because socket 775 processors were last generation, does that make them automatically stop checking email or playing games or browsing the internet? Companies like Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc. are all selling computers with Core 2 processors in them. A move to a new manufacturing process and/or architecture doesn't magically mean 100% of all computers will ship with that new process/architecture from day one. It takes YEARS before you reach the cross-over 50% mark.
To educate you a little further, ever since Intel stop letting Nvidia make chipsets for their processors with integrated memory controllers, small form factor laptops just don't have the room for a processor, i/o hub and discrete graphics. The 13" MB is a case in point. It just doesn't have the mainboard space to house all the chips necessary for a discrete graphics solution. Not being happy with Intel IGP, Apple is holding off on adopting 32 nm nehalem chips with integrated graphics for the low end until Intel either improves the IGP (Sandy Bridge) or they switch to AMD (Llano).
How many of those 775's are in systems selling for a grand with 2GB, 250GB 5400rpm, etc.? 13"ers like the ASUS 30JC, HP Envy, Sony SR and Sony Z all have discrete graphics.
The "motherboard space" argument is absolute garbage. ASUS has managed to package a GPU + H55 + Core i3 + DVD and all the other stuff into a chassis that is, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same size as the new MacBook.
ASUS U30Jc: 13.12" x 9.52" x 0.80-1.20" (WxDxH), 4.80 pounds, 8-9 hours battery life MacBook: 13.00" x 9.12" x 1.08", 4.7 pounds, "10 hours" battery life
The MacBook is .1" narrower, .4" shallower, and it's a flat case instead of a mild slope. Most of the extra size on the ASUS comes from a battery that you can easily swap out without opening the casing. Apple chose to go with the old Core 2 platform, most likely for the 320M chipset as much as anything. Honestly, I can understand that argument in the PC world, as 95% of people won't care much about the extra 20% performance in applications but 100% more graphics performance (relative to 9400M) would be very useful at times. The problem is, I don't think Apple has enough stuff that really benefits from the 320M vs. 9400M. Games are certainly out of the question, at least if Portal is any indication, as OS X imposes a ~50% penalty compared to Win7.
Anyway, the whole package with the new MacBook really isn't that bad, but it's still overpriced relative to the PC world. Build quality won't be better than the ASUS U30Jc, 2GB of RAM is stingy, and you get a slower CPU all for $100 extra. (And I would wager if ASUS had gone with P8600 and the 320M, it would have shaved $50 off the BOM for the U30Jc.) Such is the world of Apple, though.
Very good points. The Asus laptop you mentioned is $919 on Newegg which is very close to the MB. Of course, many of the internal specs are higher on the Asus. It will really come down to build quality and which platform one finds more useful. But I don't see the Asus laptop being much of a better buy. Just a different buy.
With regards to room inside, I'm just speculating as to what is going on here. Looking at the Asus laptop, I guess there are other reason Apple stayed with Core 2 for the MB refresh.
"But I don't see the Asus laptop being much of a better buy. Just a different buy."
Why? The Asus U30Jc is CLEARLY a superior buy. Not only is it a little cheaper, but it has better specs, and atleast half of it is aluminium, not plastic. I think the warranty is also longer.
Mostly superior... the 320M chipset should give the 310M a good run for the money. I'm interested in seeing Win7 benchmarks of the new MB just for the IGP. :-)
"But I don't see the Asus laptop being much of a better buy. Just a different buy."
Why? The Asus U30Jc is CLEARLY a superior buy. Not only is it a little cheaper, but it has better specs, and atleast half of it is aluminium, not plastic. I think the warranty is also longer.
So no contest. No it's NOT "CLEARLY" a superior buy. Just the fact that you are stating so is just funny and a bit dumb. You are more or less saying: "It haz more gigahertzz, it'z better". But how does reality look? Is it only CPU and GPU speed that matters? No, well all know it's not.
The MacBook unquestionably has a better touchpad, it has an "unbreakable" power connector (and yeah that matters, I have a laptop right next to me with a broken connector), even though design is a subjetive oppinion, I'm sure the Macbook wins.
All this stuff that you measure in how nice they feel or how nice they look, making your overall experience better, how do you put a value on them?
Cant you read... You conveniently left out the longer warranty and aluminium on the Asus, i didn't just say it has faster components. It also has a larger HDD and twice as much RAM, all for less money. All of this add ups to quite a bit more performance. The only thing faster in the Macbook, the 320m, is wasted as who would buy a Mac to game on? So again... no contest.
Although i doubt any of this will ever get through to you, we all know apple users dont care about value for money. As long as it has an apple logo on it, thats all that matters.
"Most of the extra size on the ASUS comes from a battery "
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your saying that the ASUS, with less usable battery time, allows for space for a dGPU by making the case ~25% thicker to accommodate a larger battery without adding to the footprint size of the battery.
From the stats you provided, it sounds like Apple CAN'T add a dGPU unless they made the internal volume of the case larger. If this incorrect, please post images of where on the MoBo the GPU could be slid into place without affecting the battery size or removing the ODD.
Maybe you need to learn how to read. He simply stated that the technology was 4 years old. What he didn't state, however, was that there were less laptops shipping with that 4 year old technology than the newer technology, like you implied. He was making the point that there's nothing spectacular about the specs. And if you weren't trolling around, and feeling so hopelessly insecure (might i add....defensive?), than you would've received exactly the message he was sending.
If you're going to use "facts", and "logic", you better make sure you're replying to something that was actually said. For the only thing that you accomplished here was to make yourself look like one of Steve Job's groupies.
One point i'd like to make about your actual "statement"...although i'm not sure if it's a statement statement, or a fashion statement....
People don't buy a core 2 duo machine for the performance...they buy it for the price...i imagine most are under 700 dollars....however, apple has their core 2 duo machine priced @ 1200 dollars....seem logical? And if apple wanted to implement an i3 into the machine, it would've had no trouble. In cupertino, it only takes willpower to make something happen.
However, the 15 inch is lookin pretty nice, eh? Dontcha think? Doesn't everyone think?
They left the shi%^y core 2 duo in the 13 inch to influence people to buy the 15 inch. The refresh for the 15 inch and 17 inch was pretty dramatic....right? The refresh for the 13 inch...underwhelming compared to the other machines, right? "Wow, the only way i can take full advantage of the refresh is if i buy the 1800 dollar machine instead of the 1200 dollar machine...what a coincidence? And since it runs really hot...ill have to either have balls of steel, or buy a laptop stand...and since it has a funky displayport, ill just have to buy one of those apple adapters....and since it's unibody, ill just have to take it on in to the apple store to have the battery replaced when it's time to do so (which they've convienently made last enough cycles to live just past your warranty expiration date)....and since the screen is so glossy, ill just have to get the matte screen."
gimme a break. Apple does everything for the money. There isn't one thing that apple doesn't know well-in-advance it's doing.
The *ONLY* interesting update for me is the backlit keyboard - it's helpful in bed. Firewire might sound important but it only matters if it's your only/primary machine, otherwise every desktop has FW port for capturing your (H)DV footage (external drives are pretty much all USB now.)
That being said the entire Macbook-family is WAAAAY OVERPRICED and this is something Apple will never admit but it's the reason why iPad might eat into their future MB(P) upgrades - until the buyer remorse sets in, of course, the moment when iPad won't show any Flash website unlike the dead Macbook it replaced...
Interestingly the complete flop Macbook Air could stage a return, provided Apple will price it down significantly, around $1k - that would make it really competitive in the CULV market.
Did you leave that same comment about the Asus U3JOc that was reviewed on the main page or are you just picking on Apple because you don't realize that the MacBook is just a computer and this is a computer review website? I'm just asking.
He left that comment because Apple get more articles and news dedicated to them on here than what they deserve. And Anand himself often seems to be bias towards them.
The way I see it, there are two reasons as to why AnandTech covers an article:
1) It's cutting edge technology, that will enhance your experience of technology, due to the improved process inside. 2) It's a new product, that will enhance your experience with technology, due to the improved process outside.
#2 fits for awesome gadgets, new processes like 3d-vision, and the market recently opened up to Steam-Mac users. #1 Also fits for 3d-vision, newer laptops that fit a niche for the extremists, and new processor architectures.
This is more of #1. If Dell or Acer had released this kind of laptop, AnandTech would have covered that as well. But alas, this is an extremist laptop that relies on last year's processor architecture to maintain the best of integrated graphics and battery life. And that's okay, since the set of things you need a Core i3 for instead of a Core 2 Duo, isn't very large. (IE, the jump from Atom::Core 2 Duo is much larger in terms of usability versus Core 2 Duo::Core i3).
What's really a shame though, is that no hardware comparisons in terms of benchmarks are given! I'd go to Appleinsider or MacRumors if I wanted announcements like this. I go to AnandTech though for the analysis!
I only post defensive comments in response to other defensive comments. It is true that Apple is treated a little differently in the press but computer enthusiasts treat Apple differently too: they HATE Apple almost like racism. So far most of the comments here have been tame but I have read things like Apple is in it only for the money or they are being hypocritical, etc, etc.
If you guys could calm down and JUST talk about the technology then everything would be okay. But no, you guys attack Apple users by saying things like iSheep and Jobs worshippers. The only thing that does it make you look bad not Apple users.
All corporations are out to make money and abuse workers in Asia and use cheap marketing tactics. ALL OF THEM. To single out one based on some false commercial war started back in the 80's and 90's by both PC and Mac companies, is nonsense. Ignore the marketing and comment on the technology. That's what we are here to do.
BTW, Anandtech has been around for almost 15 years. One news post about a Macbook on one day in the whole history of the site is not going to kill anyone. And now that they have changed the site format, the front page has news stories, opinion pieces as well as reviews. If you don't want to read fluff stuff, ONLY click on the reviews. Ignore everything else.
I don't hate apple's products. But i suppose you could say im "unappreciative" of bias. If we talk tech, we should have a level-headed discussion. Like you said, the comments were relatively tame here. We were talking specifics here, the graphics card, the price. Exactly like the comments on other notebooks...you see the same stuff. "Price blah, screen blah, vid card blah, this company is good, this company sucks...here's what sux."
It's obvious that apple hold's back, and isn't in the same competition that dell, lenovo, hp, etc. are in. Apple could easily throw more power into the machines. Just to say "it's good enough" with it's products, when clearly users want more performance, puts it in a bad position. Apple caters to a comparitively small audience. Quite a few of us (ok...probably the size of the whole mac user community) would like to see apple step it up.
FYI when you're buying apple you're buying the whole package not just the hardware with a random OS like you do with a pc. Apple is known for their ability to integrate their software with a set of specific hardware... by now eveybody should know that. PCs are known for their performance but windows is not as well optimized as apple for the same set of hardware. Some of us prefer one over the other
I've seen the insides of the MacBook and MacBook Pro. There's no room for a dedicated graphics processor in there.
Now, you might argue that Apple may have focused so much on the battery that it hurts the ability to get a dedicated graphics core, but there's no real indication that it chose a Core 2 Duo and a GeForce 320M solely to squeeze you out of extra cash.
If there's any unnecessary cost-cutting, it may just be in RAM. Apple should really be stuffing the MacBook with 4GB; I think it's just uncomfortable with having the plastic MacBook that close in features, even when the aluminum, display quality (maybe) and the extra expansion (FireWire 800, SD card slot) are the real reasons for the difference.
"It goes without saying that if you are willing to go without the Mac OS X operating system, there are plenty of cheaper, compelling alternatives available in the PC market."
The majority of laptop users going to school are able to get by in simply using the machine to take down notes in class, run certain programs like an image editor, word processor or database application (if you are into business or information technology).
There are gamers out there, but a lot of them deal with desktops because of the heat issues laptops have.
The one thing most people truly wish for is actually a longer battery life. The 10 hours isn't bad, but a lot of people want to maximize such a thing. Unfortunately, Battery life truly is something that is not so easy to gague in just a number.
The correct question to ask is
What is the total system draw and how much power does the battery provide? Example:
Suppose you had a battery that gave you a Kilowatt of power (for simplicity I am using 1000w)..One can then truly take a measure of maximum system draw and minimum system draw....Then a person would have a range on what the true battery life is.
Battery Life is always a range and not a static number.
If I wanted to buy a laptop that could help me...I would look for the following:
1) A large, high end battery with a lot of power charged to it. 2) A processor based on efficiency with low TDP and a low voltage as well. Everyone knows the heat problems laptops tend to have 3) Finally, A laptop with a solid state hard drive:
That reason is simply. They consume mW of power and a lot of laptop users enter their idle state modes when typing or doing something really basic. The 5400 RPM laptop hard drives really are old technology and they aren't that green or efficient. If a laptop would cost me $1000 - $1500...I would expect to have an SSD in it over the 5400 RPMs...
This would truly help both performance, heat issues and battery life. I don't see many users maxing out a 40 - 80GB HDD on a laptop, compared to the TB HDDs on Desktops..Unless of course they are pure gamers.
Its always nice to see a laptop update out of any caliber, but there really isn't that much of a boost...All camps like to release some laptop update that is minimal that say "look at me"
We have waited decades for integrated graphics that matched spec wise the lower end VGAs, and finally we have a 48 shader IGP! BUT... It runs on a MAC... paired with a 3 generations old CPU... with only 2GB memory- that was main stream 3 years ago!
"Apple has updated their MacBook notebook to bring it into line with their recently refreshed MacBook Pro series. Starting at $999 the new machine features a faster processor, improved graphics, and 10 hours of battery life. Apple hopes these tweaks will be enough to tempt back to school buyers over the summer."
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jleach1 - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Is it common for apple to do such a thing? The macbook "pro" really isn't so pro anymore. With that being said, and the difference between the pro's base 13" and macbook 13" being mostly asthetic, can we cound on a small boost to the 13" macbook pros? Maybe an upgrade to 2.6ghz? I understand the difference between 2.4 and 2.6 isn't perceivable to 99% of users, but really...unless you're a girl...or apple head, the macbook pro has lost most of it's lead. The extra 3 hours of battery life, stock 4gb of ram, and the 320m is what made the MBP significantly more attractive than the macbook.I say apple drops the baseline, and sticks with the MBP. I've never heard of anyone buying the more expensive 13 inch pro because of it's cost.
heffeque - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Interestingly enough most people I know that are buying Apple laptops are actually buying the 13" MacBook Pro. Not because of the aesthetics but because they want a portable yet durable Mac. I'm pretty sure that the aluminum unibody can withstand better the day by day beating than the plastic one.Stokestack - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Apple consistently cripples the one laptop in the "Pro" line that's most likely to leave the house. The dumb glossy screen (with no option for matte), the lack of ExpressCard, the less-than-top-notch processors... they show, once again, that Apple is out of touch with how people actually use various kinds of computers.It's total hypocrisy: Apple loves to cite "creative, artistic" people as their core users, and yet discriminate against those people with these dumb decisions. Gee, I'm making a documentary film and already have to lug a bunch of equipment into the field. Do I want to bring a giant, 17-inch barge of a computer, or a small durable computer?
Other users aren't served either. I travel. Gee, which computer do you think I'm going to pick, Apple? Everyone knows that a 17-inch (and, realistically these days, a 15-inch) computer is utterly worthless on a plane. But your 13-inch computer has no ExpressCard slot for my 3G data card. It also has a non-removable battery. That's brilliant for the traveler! Good move. Oh, and I can't see what the hell I'm doing because of the idiotic glossy screen.
What we see here is that Apple doesn't care about real computers anymore. Or applications. The future is clear, and when you can simply skim 30% off everyone else's work, why do your own?
jleach1 - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
Thats a good point heff. I missed that one. =Djleach1 - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
Actually....i meant to correct the article about the price...the student discount has been reduced to 50 dollars. I omitted the words "student pricing".Total amound including student discount=$949 not $899
KaarlisK - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Is there any chance of getting a thorough review of Geforce 320M? Haven't managed to find one anywhere...JarredWalton - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
At present (and very likely for the future), no one is using the 320M chipset other than Apple. A PC maker would have to choose to follow Apple's "no Core i3/i5" route in order to use it, and I just don't see that happening. Still, I'd be very interested in seeing someone do a CULV platform with 320M, or even a SP9300. If one of us gets a MacBook for review, I'll see about having them run our Win7 gaming benchmarks on it as well. :-)KaarlisK - Saturday, May 22, 2010 - link
Thank you!!! :)This is just the answer I was hoping for. Now need to start hoping for somebody here to review the 13'' Macbook (Pro) :)
BlendMe - Sunday, May 23, 2010 - link
I have one of the 13" MBP's with the 320M. Played Portal on it at native resolution and recommended settings (high/medium) and it had no problems. Also tried Nexuiz at native resolution and ultra high settings and it was not always smooth but definitely playable.Both where run on OSX, didn't get around to install Windows yet.
jleach1 - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Also, the macbook is now $949. Cheap pricks...like their profit margin wasn't high enough. Us college students need moar love! 50 dollars? PiddleyMonkeyPaw - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Try Microcenter. They are selling the old model for $999, with an instant savings of $200 when you add it to the cart. Doesn't sound like the updates are that great, unless7 hours of battery just isn't good enough for you.
killerclick - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
It's Craptastic!Cali3350 - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Its a moderately powerful Mac for under a grand with ~8 hour battery life. It has a place in some peoples homes I don' doubt. I cannot stand the Macbook's screen though. I think my 15" PRO has a crappy screen and people tell me its actually one of the best in laptop land.cknobman - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Hmm severely outdated proc, no discrete graphics memory, and the lovely apple ecosystem mandated by dictator Jobs.Im just licking my chops over this turd!!!!
mcnabney - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Yeah. 2006 called and wants it's processor back. A thousand dollars for four year old COMPUTER technology. The iConsumers are as braindead as ever....DaveninCali - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Maybe you guys need a little education on how manufacturing and business practices work. Just because you computer nerds read Anandtech and follow the latest and greatest doesn't mean the world works that way. Take this article for instance back in February from Fudzilla:http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17560/1/
It basically states that 77%. You read that right 77% of all Intel processors made and shipped were socket 775 just 3 months ago. That percentage will still be greater than 50% by the end of this year. GREATER THAN 50% of all Intel processors made and shipped by December 2010 will still be socket 775.
By the way, just because socket 775 processors were last generation, does that make them automatically stop checking email or playing games or browsing the internet? Companies like Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc. are all selling computers with Core 2 processors in them. A move to a new manufacturing process and/or architecture doesn't magically mean 100% of all computers will ship with that new process/architecture from day one. It takes YEARS before you reach the cross-over 50% mark.
To educate you a little further, ever since Intel stop letting Nvidia make chipsets for their processors with integrated memory controllers, small form factor laptops just don't have the room for a processor, i/o hub and discrete graphics. The 13" MB is a case in point. It just doesn't have the mainboard space to house all the chips necessary for a discrete graphics solution. Not being happy with Intel IGP, Apple is holding off on adopting 32 nm nehalem chips with integrated graphics for the low end until Intel either improves the IGP (Sandy Bridge) or they switch to AMD (Llano).
Schools over. Class dismissed.
Foggg - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
How many of those 775's are in systems selling for a grand with 2GB, 250GB 5400rpm, etc.?13"ers like the ASUS 30JC, HP Envy, Sony SR and Sony Z all have discrete graphics.
DaveninCali - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
How many of those laptops can boast 10 hours of battery life?JarredWalton - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
The "motherboard space" argument is absolute garbage. ASUS has managed to package a GPU + H55 + Core i3 + DVD and all the other stuff into a chassis that is, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same size as the new MacBook.ASUS U30Jc: 13.12" x 9.52" x 0.80-1.20" (WxDxH), 4.80 pounds, 8-9 hours battery life
MacBook: 13.00" x 9.12" x 1.08", 4.7 pounds, "10 hours" battery life
The MacBook is .1" narrower, .4" shallower, and it's a flat case instead of a mild slope. Most of the extra size on the ASUS comes from a battery that you can easily swap out without opening the casing. Apple chose to go with the old Core 2 platform, most likely for the 320M chipset as much as anything. Honestly, I can understand that argument in the PC world, as 95% of people won't care much about the extra 20% performance in applications but 100% more graphics performance (relative to 9400M) would be very useful at times. The problem is, I don't think Apple has enough stuff that really benefits from the 320M vs. 9400M. Games are certainly out of the question, at least if Portal is any indication, as OS X imposes a ~50% penalty compared to Win7.
Anyway, the whole package with the new MacBook really isn't that bad, but it's still overpriced relative to the PC world. Build quality won't be better than the ASUS U30Jc, 2GB of RAM is stingy, and you get a slower CPU all for $100 extra. (And I would wager if ASUS had gone with P8600 and the 320M, it would have shaved $50 off the BOM for the U30Jc.) Such is the world of Apple, though.
DaveninCali - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Very good points. The Asus laptop you mentioned is $919 on Newegg which is very close to the MB. Of course, many of the internal specs are higher on the Asus. It will really come down to build quality and which platform one finds more useful. But I don't see the Asus laptop being much of a better buy. Just a different buy.With regards to room inside, I'm just speculating as to what is going on here. Looking at the Asus laptop, I guess there are other reason Apple stayed with Core 2 for the MB refresh.
B3an - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
"But I don't see the Asus laptop being much of a better buy. Just a different buy."Why? The Asus U30Jc is CLEARLY a superior buy. Not only is it a little cheaper, but it has better specs, and atleast half of it is aluminium, not plastic. I think the warranty is also longer.
So no contest.
JarredWalton - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Mostly superior... the 320M chipset should give the 310M a good run for the money. I'm interested in seeing Win7 benchmarks of the new MB just for the IGP. :-)fog - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
"But I don't see the Asus laptop being much of a better buy. Just a different buy."Why? The Asus U30Jc is CLEARLY a superior buy. Not only is it a little cheaper, but it has better specs, and atleast half of it is aluminium, not plastic. I think the warranty is also longer.
So no contest.
No it's NOT "CLEARLY" a superior buy. Just the fact that you are stating so is just funny and a bit dumb. You are more or less saying: "It haz more gigahertzz, it'z better". But how does reality look? Is it only CPU and GPU speed that matters? No, well all know it's not.
The MacBook unquestionably has a better touchpad, it has an "unbreakable" power connector (and yeah that matters, I have a laptop right next to me with a broken connector), even though design is a subjetive oppinion, I'm sure the Macbook wins.
All this stuff that you measure in how nice they feel or how nice they look, making your overall experience better, how do you put a value on them?
fog - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
Woops, I forgot to remove your post in mine, so it's quoted.B3an - Sunday, May 23, 2010 - link
Cant you read... You conveniently left out the longer warranty and aluminium on the Asus, i didn't just say it has faster components. It also has a larger HDD and twice as much RAM, all for less money. All of this add ups to quite a bit more performance. The only thing faster in the Macbook, the 320m, is wasted as who would buy a Mac to game on?So again... no contest.
Although i doubt any of this will ever get through to you, we all know apple users dont care about value for money. As long as it has an apple logo on it, thats all that matters.
solipsism - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
"Most of the extra size on the ASUS comes from a battery "Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your saying that the ASUS, with less usable battery time, allows for space for a dGPU by making the case ~25% thicker to accommodate a larger battery without adding to the footprint size of the battery.
From the stats you provided, it sounds like Apple CAN'T add a dGPU unless they made the internal volume of the case larger. If this incorrect, please post images of where on the MoBo the GPU could be slid into place without affecting the battery size or removing the ODD.
Foggg - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Close to 10 hours: Sony Z with the 9 cell. The SSD helps.jleach1 - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
Maybe you need to learn how to read. He simply stated that the technology was 4 years old. What he didn't state, however, was that there were less laptops shipping with that 4 year old technology than the newer technology, like you implied. He was making the point that there's nothing spectacular about the specs. And if you weren't trolling around, and feeling so hopelessly insecure (might i add....defensive?), than you would've received exactly the message he was sending.If you're going to use "facts", and "logic", you better make sure you're replying to something that was actually said. For the only thing that you accomplished here was to make yourself look like one of Steve Job's groupies.
jleach1 - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
One point i'd like to make about your actual "statement"...although i'm not sure if it's a statement statement, or a fashion statement....People don't buy a core 2 duo machine for the performance...they buy it for the price...i imagine most are under 700 dollars....however, apple has their core 2 duo machine priced @ 1200 dollars....seem logical? And if apple wanted to implement an i3 into the machine, it would've had no trouble. In cupertino, it only takes willpower to make something happen.
However, the 15 inch is lookin pretty nice, eh? Dontcha think? Doesn't everyone think?
They left the shi%^y core 2 duo in the 13 inch to influence people to buy the 15 inch. The refresh for the 15 inch and 17 inch was pretty dramatic....right? The refresh for the 13 inch...underwhelming compared to the other machines, right? "Wow, the only way i can take full advantage of the refresh is if i buy the 1800 dollar machine instead of the 1200 dollar machine...what a coincidence? And since it runs really hot...ill have to either have balls of steel, or buy a laptop stand...and since it has a funky displayport, ill just have to buy one of those apple adapters....and since it's unibody, ill just have to take it on in to the apple store to have the battery replaced when it's time to do so (which they've convienently made last enough cycles to live just past your warranty expiration date)....and since the screen is so glossy, ill just have to get the matte screen."
gimme a break. Apple does everything for the money. There isn't one thing that apple doesn't know well-in-advance it's doing.
T2k - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
The *ONLY* interesting update for me is the backlit keyboard - it's helpful in bed.Firewire might sound important but it only matters if it's your only/primary machine, otherwise every desktop has FW port for capturing your (H)DV footage (external drives are pretty much all USB now.)
That being said the entire Macbook-family is WAAAAY OVERPRICED and this is something Apple will never admit but it's the reason why iPad might eat into their future MB(P) upgrades - until the buyer remorse sets in, of course, the moment when iPad won't show any Flash website unlike the dead Macbook it replaced...
Interestingly the complete flop Macbook Air could stage a return, provided Apple will price it down significantly, around $1k - that would make it really competitive in the CULV market.
Pirks - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
"complete flop Macbook Air"Is it a flop in your wintroll head or do you have some proof?
I'd bet on the former.
CSMR - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
What's the obsession with Apple on this site?Brazos - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
I believe Anand uses one. Wouldn't call it a fixation though. It's a just a computer.DaveninCali - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
Did you leave that same comment about the Asus U3JOc that was reviewed on the main page or are you just picking on Apple because you don't realize that the MacBook is just a computer and this is a computer review website? I'm just asking.B3an - Thursday, May 20, 2010 - link
He left that comment because Apple get more articles and news dedicated to them on here than what they deserve. And Anand himself often seems to be bias towards them.Tros - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
The way I see it, there are two reasons as to why AnandTech covers an article:1) It's cutting edge technology, that will enhance your experience of technology, due to the improved process inside.
2) It's a new product, that will enhance your experience with technology, due to the improved process outside.
#2 fits for awesome gadgets, new processes like 3d-vision, and the market recently opened up to Steam-Mac users.
#1 Also fits for 3d-vision, newer laptops that fit a niche for the extremists, and new processor architectures.
This is more of #1. If Dell or Acer had released this kind of laptop, AnandTech would have covered that as well. But alas, this is an extremist laptop that relies on last year's processor architecture to maintain the best of integrated graphics and battery life. And that's okay, since the set of things you need a Core i3 for instead of a Core 2 Duo, isn't very large. (IE, the jump from Atom::Core 2 Duo is much larger in terms of usability versus Core 2 Duo::Core i3).
What's really a shame though, is that no hardware comparisons in terms of benchmarks are given! I'd go to Appleinsider or MacRumors if I wanted announcements like this. I go to AnandTech though for the analysis!
jleach1 - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
Hey daven? Do you post the same defensive comments on every enthusiast site that you visit?DaveninCali - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
I only post defensive comments in response to other defensive comments. It is true that Apple is treated a little differently in the press but computer enthusiasts treat Apple differently too: they HATE Apple almost like racism. So far most of the comments here have been tame but I have read things like Apple is in it only for the money or they are being hypocritical, etc, etc.If you guys could calm down and JUST talk about the technology then everything would be okay. But no, you guys attack Apple users by saying things like iSheep and Jobs worshippers. The only thing that does it make you look bad not Apple users.
All corporations are out to make money and abuse workers in Asia and use cheap marketing tactics. ALL OF THEM. To single out one based on some false commercial war started back in the 80's and 90's by both PC and Mac companies, is nonsense. Ignore the marketing and comment on the technology. That's what we are here to do.
BTW, Anandtech has been around for almost 15 years. One news post about a Macbook on one day in the whole history of the site is not going to kill anyone. And now that they have changed the site format, the front page has news stories, opinion pieces as well as reviews. If you don't want to read fluff stuff, ONLY click on the reviews. Ignore everything else.
jleach1 - Saturday, May 22, 2010 - link
I don't hate apple's products. But i suppose you could say im "unappreciative" of bias. If we talk tech, we should have a level-headed discussion. Like you said, the comments were relatively tame here. We were talking specifics here, the graphics card, the price. Exactly like the comments on other notebooks...you see the same stuff. "Price blah, screen blah, vid card blah, this company is good, this company sucks...here's what sux."It's obvious that apple hold's back, and isn't in the same competition that dell, lenovo, hp, etc. are in. Apple could easily throw more power into the machines. Just to say "it's good enough" with it's products, when clearly users want more performance, puts it in a bad position. Apple caters to a comparitively small audience. Quite a few of us (ok...probably the size of the whole mac user community) would like to see apple step it up.
Hxx - Sunday, May 23, 2010 - link
FYI when you're buying apple you're buying the whole package not just the hardware with a random OS like you do with a pc. Apple is known for their ability to integrate their software with a set of specific hardware... by now eveybody should know that. PCs are known for their performance but windows is not as well optimized as apple for the same set of hardware. Some of us prefer one over the otherCommodus - Sunday, May 23, 2010 - link
No, Apple is not clearly holding back.I've seen the insides of the MacBook and MacBook Pro. There's no room for a dedicated graphics processor in there.
Now, you might argue that Apple may have focused so much on the battery that it hurts the ability to get a dedicated graphics core, but there's no real indication that it chose a Core 2 Duo and a GeForce 320M solely to squeeze you out of extra cash.
If there's any unnecessary cost-cutting, it may just be in RAM. Apple should really be stuffing the MacBook with 4GB; I think it's just uncomfortable with having the plastic MacBook that close in features, even when the aluminum, display quality (maybe) and the extra expansion (FireWire 800, SD card slot) are the real reasons for the difference.
Leyawiin - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
"It goes without saying that if you are willing to go without the Mac OS X operating system, there are plenty of cheaper, compelling alternatives available in the PC market."Why bother saying it then?
Setsunayaki - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
Whether it is MAC, Windows or Linux..The majority of laptop users going to school are able to get by in simply using the machine to take down notes in class, run certain programs like an image editor, word processor or database application (if you are into business or information technology).
There are gamers out there, but a lot of them deal with desktops because of the heat issues laptops have.
The one thing most people truly wish for is actually a longer battery life. The 10 hours isn't bad, but a lot of people want to maximize such a thing. Unfortunately, Battery life truly is something that is not so easy to gague in just a number.
The correct question to ask is
What is the total system draw and how much power does the battery provide? Example:
Suppose you had a battery that gave you a Kilowatt of power (for simplicity I am using 1000w)..One can then truly take a measure of maximum system draw and minimum system draw....Then a person would have a range on what the true battery life is.
Battery Life is always a range and not a static number.
If I wanted to buy a laptop that could help me...I would look for the following:
1) A large, high end battery with a lot of power charged to it.
2) A processor based on efficiency with low TDP and a low voltage as well. Everyone knows the heat problems laptops tend to have
3) Finally, A laptop with a solid state hard drive:
That reason is simply. They consume mW of power and a lot of laptop users enter their idle state modes when typing or doing something really basic. The 5400 RPM laptop hard drives really are old technology and they aren't that green or efficient. If a laptop would cost me $1000 - $1500...I would expect to have an SSD in it over the 5400 RPMs...
This would truly help both performance, heat issues and battery life. I don't see many users maxing out a 40 - 80GB HDD on a laptop, compared to the TB HDDs on Desktops..Unless of course they are pure gamers.
Its always nice to see a laptop update out of any caliber, but there really isn't that much of a boost...All camps like to release some laptop update that is minimal that say "look at me"
geok1ng - Friday, May 21, 2010 - link
We have waited decades for integrated graphics that matched spec wise the lower end VGAs, and finally we have a 48 shader IGP!BUT...
It runs on a MAC...
paired with a 3 generations old CPU...
with only 2GB memory- that was main stream 3 years ago!
Daeros - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
3 generations old? Can you tell me what was between Core 2 and Core iX?arswihart - Saturday, May 22, 2010 - link
Wow, I didn't realize even the MBP 13" resolution is 1280x800, that's truly pitiful.topsecret - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
yeah, I have a 5 year old dell that has the same res in a 12" package.weakerthans4 - Saturday, May 22, 2010 - link
"Apple has updated their MacBook notebook to bring it into line with their recently refreshed MacBook Pro series. Starting at $999 the new machine features a faster processor, improved graphics, and 10 hours of battery life. Apple hopes these tweaks will be enough to tempt back to school buyers over the summer."I think you mean sucker, not tempt...