it wasn't promised by nvidia, it was promised by its partner fansites, like fudzilla and others
in any case, even if it's not "six months later than it was promised", "more than six months later than your competition" must be a new definition for "early"
Sooo.. while "early" (yeah, right..), I think this is perfect moment to bring back my point - why the hell were cards compared in reviews the way they were (5850 vs htx470 & 5870 vs gtx480) when price-wise it should be much different comparison (5870 vs gtx470 & gtx480 vs 5970).. See local prices (Croatia, Europe, in original Croatian currency, & converted to Euros)
In my opinion, at prices as they are on the MARKET, HD5850 has no real competition, HD5870 competes against GTX470 - and wins, and HD5970 competes against GTX480 - and wins again. Based on pure price/performance, not to mention that relative power consumption, noise and heat dissipation are all on the side of ATI cards as well.
So I beg Anandtech to update their conclusion of their GTX480/470 review.. or should I say "preview", as conclusions were made without having all the facts beforehand...
yep i agree. Ati 5850 or 5870 at the moment is the card to get. :) . The 200 series nividia cards were obsolete the day the arrived adn the 295 was a complete power hungry waste of space. They were a complete waste buy if you had the 8800 cards or the 9800 cards already. The performance although slightly better was really nothing to be amazed by. Howeve the ati 4870's and the 5000 series are cheaper/less power hungry and overall i feel is a much better buy than the new nividias by far.
If ever there was a nVidia GPU generation to skip, this is surely it. New Tech that is bigger; sucks more power; runs hotter; is louder and costs a premium for the privilege -Give me a break. What I find amazing is that these cards will still sell. Strange times.
But they are faster, thats the selling point. Most people don't care for sound/heat, they want performance. No one buys these cards based on those 2 factors you mentioned.
If they'd base their decisions on reason they'd get a 5970. If they bought it heart palpitations at the sight of the nVidia logo then they're fanbois. And yes, people do look at heat, nosie and power draw even at the hi-end.
if ATI could get there drivers sorted out on the High end cards i use them until then i cant risk getting an high end ATI card and be one of them unlucky users who has issues with textures and and some other bugs
(5970 is an Dual GPU if your not using an game that is buggy with ATI then 2x 5850/70 are faster and less bugs as well CF can be disabled as well cant do that on the 5970)
2 of my friends has ATI and both having flashing issues and texture issues that have not been fixed for 3 months now (and annoying 1 customer/friend (got an 5850 for him) that i got credit for an GTX280 that died on me {my fault} i may have issues with it guessing later on, may have to sell it if he starts playing newer games get him an replacement as one of the Benchmarks would crash when i went into and out of an heavy used tessellation object wireframe mode)
soon as my local trade place gets new stock in (last lot was pre pre ordred so could not get 1) i am getting the GTX480 my self (From an 9800GX2 before that dead GTX280),
i love to buy there very good and priced ATI hardware but there Drivers/Cat drivers suck when it does not work correctly and it seems to take them months to fix the issues (3-4 seems the norm)
3 other of my friends are getting it as well (1 is getting 2 god knows why 1 of them will be plenty unless he going to be doing that Nvidia surround thing when drivers support it, and one other friend may get an GTX470 as he cant play BF:BC2 smoke flashing when in tank if hit by an rocket/ other texture issues and C&C4 due to Strobe affect on the ground)
ATI Bring out an ATI Clean tool and .Net reset tool (Driver and .net CCC problems)
Two of my friends got 5850 and they'Re running perfectly, myself am still on my 4870 and seeing no point to upgrade unless I'd really want to play crysis in 1920*1080 which I won't.
Get Ati tray tool!! ATI drivers are not that bad, Catalyst control center certainly is not the best but still. Wanna talk drivers ok I'll do like you.
I'd buy a nvidia card if only it wasn't so high priced, hot, noisy and that their drivers wouldn't burn down cards...
thats the issue not every one has the issue it seems most do not, but an small amount is still a lot as there are way more Nvidia cards out there and these issues seems like drivers but also seems like the card it self
a lot seem to stick there heads in the sand that mine works so should yours
And you're doing the same, but then the other way around. "A couple of my friends are having problems with their Ati cars, so there are more problems with Ati cards then with Nvidia."
Speaking like if everyone was a gamer. Light up your brain, 95% of video cards sold are mid and lower range... So yes, people care about noise and heat, simply gamers mind less but it doesn't mean they do not. If I had to change power supply or case(which is possible in that case) I'd simply not buy the thing.
But the performance gain is not big enough to really make a difference except for bragging rights. Further more, the ratios of performance to power makes Fermi clearly inferior to Cypress.
And I have to disagree that no one buys cards on the basis of my criteria: better performance per watt; cooler; and quieter. If Fermi met those requirements, and still offered the same performance margins, I'd be in, and I bet a lot of other people would be as well. As it stands, buying a card like that is like hanging a Idiot sign around your neck, IMO.
"The fact that anyone is charging MSRP right now is a good sign that pricing shouldn’t get too far out of hand, but we’ll have to see how things go next week. In the mean time if you’re dying to have a GTX 400 card, you should be able to get a GTX 470 right now but you’re going to be paying entirely too much for it."
Edit:
The fact that anyone is charging MSRP right now is a good sign that pricing shouldn’t get too far out of hand, but we’ll have to see how things go next week. In the mean time if you’re dying to have a GTX 400 card, you should be able to get a GTX 470 right now but you’re going to be paying entirely too much for it - AS WELL AS FOR THE ELECTRICITY TO POWER IT."
Wow that was so hilarious...you should be writing South Park episodes....and to anyone complaining about a few bucks of extra energy bill...seriously, wtf are you doing taking about a $500 card if you cannot afford a few $$ on your bill? lamer ati fans are the ones posting in every Fermi thread.....scared?
In recent years i a have been an Ati supporter, partly because i didn't like Nvidia's stance with DX 10.1 and its sometimes shady practices. This is the first time after many years i really like an Nvidia product and will probably buy its revision.
I like Fermi because it is clearly superior in architecture. It is more flexible and can be used for GPGPU in a much better way than Ati's current GPUs. And since i am also a Linux user, Nvidia always had great Linux support.
The problem is current Fermi GPUs are expensive and burn a lot of power. That is why i will wait for its 28nm successor. Unless Ati creates a new architecture at 28nm as well, a 28nm Fermi will be my next GPU. Current Dx 11 games suck anyway, and most current games do not need that kind of power since they are console ports, so i could wait...
With the tempo nVidia is releasing new products that would be at least a couple of years more... Not to mention how late nVidia products are in Southern Europe...
"It is more flexible and can be used for GPGPU in a much better way than Ati's current GPUs" both of them can run opencl. Do you have any specific examples where one performs better than other, or is it just hyperbole.
I am a developer and while i am not currently working on GPGPU, some from my circle do. And i would like to experiment on it in the near future. Fermi is an out of order architecture, with good DP performance. Nvidia's tools are more mature than Ati's at the moment. So i understand and i might need or simply want the technology.
And if you are looking for a fanboi, take a look at your nearest mirror.
After an 8600M GT burned up my laptop and both Dell and Nvidia left their customers out to dry, I won't be looking at any more products form either company.
this new layout makes it NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to select any text, like an URL, to copy and paste somewhere else. please fix that. I have to select the entire page, paste it to notepad, and then get the piece of text I want....
actualy lot's of sites are doing this same thing: making it harder to select text. is this some weird trend????
The ASUS box picture there features Voltage Tweak. Given that modifying the voltage is normally used to increase the power and get a better overclock (and I would imagine Fermi would be rather unstable if undervolted) who in their right mind would INCREASE the power draw on a card that sucks a minimum of 250w already???
Don't do this combination. The micro stutter is so bad I felt totally ripped off for buying 2 of these cards within less than 2 weeks. Some of my games just exhibit tearing while other like Quake4 are so bad to a point of being almost unplayable. Stick with a single video card solution to avoid micro stutter. I have scold AndAndTech for not going into the subject of micro stutter leaving everyone with egg on their face after POS. SHame on you AnAndTech! I am not trusting you analysis any more. BOOOO
Any thoughts on when/if the pricing for the GTX 285/295 will drop with the GTX 400 series shipping now? Newegg shows the 285 and 470 priced about the same.
It never will significantly drop. NVIDIA's long-term plan has been to phase out those parts at current prices, rather than selling them at a lower margin.
I think this is perfect moment to bring back my point - why the hell were cards compared in reviews the way they were (5850 vs htx470 & 5870 vs gtx480) when price-wise it should be much different comparison (5870 vs gtx470 & gtx480 vs 5970).. See local prices (Croatia, Europe, in original Croatian currency, & converted to Euros)
In my opinion, at prices as they are on the MARKET, HD5850 has no real competition, HD5870 competes against GTX470 - and wins, and HD5970 competes against GTX480 - and wins again. Based on pure price/performance, not to mention that relative power consumption, noise and heat dissipation are all on the side of ATI cards as well.
So I beg Anandtech to update their conclusion of their GTX480/470 review.. or should I say "preview", as conclusions were made without having all the facts beforehand...
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mcnabney - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
Oh yes, only in Nvidialand can the arrival of a product originally promised for November be called early in April.JSt0rm01 - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
lmao so true. early haahahaahSouka - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
Time to throw out my old Nvidia GTX 285.....PrincePickle - Sunday, April 11, 2010 - link
Instead of throwing it away you should give it to me :)fumacapena - Thursday, April 22, 2010 - link
yeah, very old =/san1s - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
really? can you post an official link showing that it was promised in november?samspqr - Sunday, April 11, 2010 - link
it wasn't promised by nvidia, it was promised by its partner fansites, like fudzilla and othersin any case, even if it's not "six months later than it was promised", "more than six months later than your competition" must be a new definition for "early"
very unfortunate choice of words indeed
Finally - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
Snap!Finally - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
(this was directed at the first post)LuxZg - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - link
Sooo.. while "early" (yeah, right..), I think this is perfect moment to bring back my point - why the hell were cards compared in reviews the way they were (5850 vs htx470 & 5870 vs gtx480) when price-wise it should be much different comparison (5870 vs gtx470 & gtx480 vs 5970)..See local prices (Croatia, Europe, in original Croatian currency, & converted to Euros)
Sapphire HD 5850, 1GB GDDR5 - 1901kn -> ~265€
Sapphire HD 5870, 1GB GDDR5 - 2669kn -> ~370€
Palit GTX470/1280MB - 2730kn -> ~380€
Palit GTX480/1536MB - 3917kn -> ~545€
Sapphire HD 5970, 2GB GDDR5 - 4321kn -> 600€
In my opinion, at prices as they are on the MARKET, HD5850 has no real competition, HD5870 competes against GTX470 - and wins, and HD5970 competes against GTX480 - and wins again. Based on pure price/performance, not to mention that relative power consumption, noise and heat dissipation are all on the side of ATI cards as well.
So I beg Anandtech to update their conclusion of their GTX480/470 review.. or should I say "preview", as conclusions were made without having all the facts beforehand...
nyran125 - Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - link
yep i agree. Ati 5850 or 5870 at the moment is the card to get. :) . The 200 series nividia cards were obsolete the day the arrived adn the 295 was a complete power hungry waste of space. They were a complete waste buy if you had the 8800 cards or the 9800 cards already. The performance although slightly better was really nothing to be amazed by. Howeve the ati 4870's and the 5000 series are cheaper/less power hungry and overall i feel is a much better buy than the new nividias by far.IvanChess - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
This card needed to be out months ago. AMD/Ati already has a full line up out and they even released (or plan to release) a new workstation card.IvanChess - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
Plan to:http://www.tomshardware.com/news/firepro-v8800-rad...
fausto412 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
this whole generation is not worth my money. and prices are too high.afkrotch - Sunday, April 11, 2010 - link
Isn't that said of ever new generation, the day it's released?Calin - Monday, April 12, 2010 - link
Thanks to NVidia's lack of DX11 cards, AMD didn't lowered their suggested prices, and their cards are usually selling above suggested price anyway.Quidam67 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
If ever there was a nVidia GPU generation to skip, this is surely it. New Tech that is bigger; sucks more power; runs hotter; is louder and costs a premium for the privilege -Give me a break. What I find amazing is that these cards will still sell. Strange times.imaheadcase - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
But they are faster, thats the selling point. Most people don't care for sound/heat, they want performance.No one buys these cards based on those 2 factors you mentioned.
insurgent - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
If those are the real reasons, get a 5970. So I guess those are not the REAL reasons.bigboxes - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
If they'd base their decisions on reason they'd get a 5970. If they bought it heart palpitations at the sight of the nVidia logo then they're fanbois. And yes, people do look at heat, nosie and power draw even at the hi-end.leexgx - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
to Both commentsif ATI could get there drivers sorted out on the High end cards i use them until then i cant risk getting an high end ATI card and be one of them unlucky users who has issues with textures and and some other bugs
(5970 is an Dual GPU if your not using an game that is buggy with ATI then 2x 5850/70 are faster and less bugs as well CF can be disabled as well cant do that on the 5970)
2 of my friends has ATI and both having flashing issues and texture issues that have not been fixed for 3 months now (and annoying 1 customer/friend (got an 5850 for him) that i got credit for an GTX280 that died on me {my fault} i may have issues with it guessing later on, may have to sell it if he starts playing newer games get him an replacement as one of the Benchmarks would crash when i went into and out of an heavy used tessellation object wireframe mode)
soon as my local trade place gets new stock in (last lot was pre pre ordred so could not get 1) i am getting the GTX480 my self (From an 9800GX2 before that dead GTX280),
i love to buy there very good and priced ATI hardware but there Drivers/Cat drivers suck when it does not work correctly and it seems to take them months to fix the issues (3-4 seems the norm)
3 other of my friends are getting it as well (1 is getting 2 god knows why 1 of them will be plenty unless he going to be doing that Nvidia surround thing when drivers support it, and one other friend may get an GTX470 as he cant play BF:BC2 smoke flashing when in tank if hit by an rocket/ other texture issues and C&C4 due to Strobe affect on the ground)
ATI Bring out an ATI Clean tool and .Net reset tool (Driver and .net CCC problems)
Galid - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
Two of my friends got 5850 and they'Re running perfectly, myself am still on my 4870 and seeing no point to upgrade unless I'd really want to play crysis in 1920*1080 which I won't.Get Ati tray tool!! ATI drivers are not that bad, Catalyst control center certainly is not the best but still. Wanna talk drivers ok I'll do like you.
I'd buy a nvidia card if only it wasn't so high priced, hot, noisy and that their drivers wouldn't burn down cards...
leexgx - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
thats the issue not every one has the issue it seems most do not, but an small amount is still a lot as there are way more Nvidia cards out there and these issues seems like drivers but also seems like the card it selfa lot seem to stick there heads in the sand that mine works so should yours
this gui just keeps posting that his works for the most part not giving any useful info apart from saying mine works very well
steveo_crossfire
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=2...
ATI Needs to be working With the users who are having these issues or its simply the cards that has the issues not the drivers ?
Phate- - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
And you're doing the same, but then the other way around."A couple of my friends are having problems with their Ati cars, so there are more problems with Ati cards then with Nvidia."
Quidam67 - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
ExactlyThat was anectdotal; unscientific and emotive speculation
Galid - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
Speaking like if everyone was a gamer. Light up your brain, 95% of video cards sold are mid and lower range... So yes, people care about noise and heat, simply gamers mind less but it doesn't mean they do not. If I had to change power supply or case(which is possible in that case) I'd simply not buy the thing.Quidam67 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
But the performance gain is not big enough to really make a difference except for bragging rights. Further more, the ratios of performance to power makes Fermi clearly inferior to Cypress.And I have to disagree that no one buys cards on the basis of my criteria: better performance per watt; cooler; and quieter. If Fermi met those requirements, and still offered the same performance margins, I'd be in, and I bet a lot of other people would be as well. As it stands, buying a card like that is like hanging a Idiot sign around your neck, IMO.
Griswold - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
Most people? Bullshit. Most people do not buy enthusiast products such as these. You need to stop living in this small performance world...SlyNine - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
5800ultra...robert3892 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
Looking at the EVGA forum it appears a few members there have received their EVGA 480 video cardsJonnyDough - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
"The fact that anyone is charging MSRP right now is a good sign that pricing shouldn’t get too far out of hand, but we’ll have to see how things go next week. In the mean time if you’re dying to have a GTX 400 card, you should be able to get a GTX 470 right now but you’re going to be paying entirely too much for it."Edit:
The fact that anyone is charging MSRP right now is a good sign that pricing shouldn’t get too far out of hand, but we’ll have to see how things go next week. In the mean time if you’re dying to have a GTX 400 card, you should be able to get a GTX 470 right now but you’re going to be paying entirely too much for it - AS WELL AS FOR THE ELECTRICITY TO POWER IT."
imaheadcase - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
The cost of operating one is hardly even worth mentioning.shaolin95 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
Wow that was so hilarious...you should be writing South Park episodes....and to anyone complaining about a few bucks of extra energy bill...seriously, wtf are you doing taking about a $500 card if you cannot afford a few $$ on your bill? lamer ati fans are the ones posting in every Fermi thread.....scared?TemplarGR - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
In recent years i a have been an Ati supporter, partly because i didn't like Nvidia's stance with DX 10.1 and its sometimes shady practices. This is the first time after many years i really like an Nvidia product and will probably buy its revision.I like Fermi because it is clearly superior in architecture. It is more flexible and can be used for GPGPU in a much better way than Ati's current GPUs. And since i am also a Linux user, Nvidia always had great Linux support.
The problem is current Fermi GPUs are expensive and burn a lot of power. That is why i will wait for its 28nm successor. Unless Ati creates a new architecture at 28nm as well, a 28nm Fermi will be my next GPU. Current Dx 11 games suck anyway, and most current games do not need that kind of power since they are console ports, so i could wait...
mcnabney - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
ATI/AMD is doing exactly that.. Expect either Northern/Southern Islands to come out in the Fall.AstroGuardian - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
With the tempo nVidia is releasing new products that would be at least a couple of years more...Not to mention how late nVidia products are in Southern Europe...
MySchizoBuddy - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
"It is more flexible and can be used for GPGPU in a much better way than Ati's current GPUs"both of them can run opencl. Do you have any specific examples where one performs better than other, or is it just hyperbole.
TemplarGR - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
You obviously haven't read Anand's previous articles on Fermi...Griswold - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
You obviously do not need nor understand the technology anyway. So, why bother? Fanboy.TemplarGR - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
I am a developer and while i am not currently working on GPGPU, some from my circle do. And i would like to experiment on it in the near future. Fermi is an out of order architecture, with good DP performance. Nvidia's tools are more mature than Ati's at the moment. So i understand and i might need or simply want the technology.And if you are looking for a fanboi, take a look at your nearest mirror.
Griswold - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
Yea, right. Everyone is suddenly a developer. My mom also...TemplarGR - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
Your mom couldn't be a developer right now, she has a yound kid like you to raise first,leexgx - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
nice one(yay spam filter)
AtenRa - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
28nm will not be ready for mass production this year, so don’t wait for a new ATI architecture this fall. A new 5890 perhaps this summer ;)MySchizoBuddy - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
Are we going to see any HPC benchmark or is it just fun and games.jpr703 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
After an 8600M GT burned up my laptop and both Dell and Nvidia left their customers out to dry, I won't be looking at any more products form either company.marc1000 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
this new layout makes it NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to select any text, like an URL, to copy and paste somewhere else. please fix that. I have to select the entire page, paste it to notepad, and then get the piece of text I want....actualy lot's of sites are doing this same thing: making it harder to select text. is this some weird trend????
MySchizoBuddy - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
this is the first i'm hearing aboutmarc1000 - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
it seems that only IE6 is affected by this bug... on Chrome 1 I can select text without problems :-SFinally - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
You are using IE6 and complaining that this old piece of junk can't display a website properly?marc1000 - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
I was reporting a thing I tought could be a bug. In this case the bug is in the ancient browser, but if you have nothing to add, please don't try.Sulphademus - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
The ASUS box picture there features Voltage Tweak. Given that modifying the voltage is normally used to increase the power and get a better overclock (and I would imagine Fermi would be rather unstable if undervolted) who in their right mind would INCREASE the power draw on a card that sucks a minimum of 250w already???wit p - Friday, April 9, 2010 - link
I just fear to ask what this "voltage tweak" may mean.......Alternate vs direct?!
Griswold - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_...Let the sparks fly!
MadAd - Sunday, April 11, 2010 - link
amen to that ... what happened to faster cooler smaller?looks like Nvidia has been skimping on its R&D and expect us to pay for another generation of tat.
You cant shine a turd, but this is one good attempt to roll it in glitter
Griswold - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
Summer is leaping towards us so I dont need a combined graphics and heat supply station anymore.araczynski - Monday, April 12, 2010 - link
i know retro 70's is still in, but that housing is all sorts of cheap and disgusting looking.Figaro56 - Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - link
Don't do this combination. The micro stutter is so bad I felt totally ripped off for buying 2 of these cards within less than 2 weeks. Some of my games just exhibit tearing while other like Quake4 are so bad to a point of being almost unplayable. Stick with a single video card solution to avoid micro stutter. I have scold AndAndTech for not going into the subject of micro stutter leaving everyone with egg on their face after POS. SHame on you AnAndTech! I am not trusting you analysis any more. BOOOOChubs - Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - link
Any thoughts on when/if the pricing for the GTX 285/295 will drop with the GTX 400 series shipping now? Newegg shows the 285 and 470 priced about the same.Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - link
It never will significantly drop. NVIDIA's long-term plan has been to phase out those parts at current prices, rather than selling them at a lower margin.LuxZg - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - link
I think this is perfect moment to bring back my point - why the hell were cards compared in reviews the way they were (5850 vs htx470 & 5870 vs gtx480) when price-wise it should be much different comparison (5870 vs gtx470 & gtx480 vs 5970)..See local prices (Croatia, Europe, in original Croatian currency, & converted to Euros)
Sapphire HD 5850, 1GB GDDR5 - 1901kn -> ~265€
Sapphire HD 5870, 1GB GDDR5 - 2669kn -> ~370€
Palit GTX470/1280MB - 2730kn -> ~380€
Palit GTX480/1536MB - 3917kn -> ~545€
Sapphire HD 5970, 2GB GDDR5 - 4321kn -> 600€
In my opinion, at prices as they are on the MARKET, HD5850 has no real competition, HD5870 competes against GTX470 - and wins, and HD5970 competes against GTX480 - and wins again. Based on pure price/performance, not to mention that relative power consumption, noise and heat dissipation are all on the side of ATI cards as well.
So I beg Anandtech to update their conclusion of their GTX480/470 review.. or should I say "preview", as conclusions were made without having all the facts beforehand...
apriant - Thursday, April 15, 2010 - link
i'll keep my 9550 sapphire