Turbo boos on ULV is especially important, the clock rate nearly doubles when thermals allow, under normal usage this will speed you through the rare times CPU is limiting you, at turbo speed and will finish the task before the thermals throttle the frequency.
The keyboard looks perfect, trackpoint is amazingly better than any touchpad, but yes, it needs a better screen and an arrandale.
I agree we NEED new arrandale ULV chips, but that Fugitsu isn't the answer. At 160GB is disk space, thats a waste and who needs an optical drive in an ultramobile...? Give me an 11.6" chassis w/ a 640GB HDD along w/ optimus graphics and 4GB of DDR3 an scratch the i7-640UM for the cheaper i5-520UM. If that notebook is around $700 then I'll get excited.
Intel get that damn arrandale ULV chips out to the vendors in mass, this is a joke! The Core 2 CULV chips were great 2 years ago, but we need to move forward. I know plenty of manufacturers have shown their models to carry these chips, MSI x360, Asus' new UL series and HP along w/ Dell all are showing models but nothing is coming because the chips are still delayed!
agreed, the fujitsu is just proof that the ULV arrandales are out in some form. and concerning the price, its not like the arrandale is the reason why its $1k more expensive... the cpu is only ~$300
Amen to that. Intel's taking its sweet time. Blames a supply shortage for the delay. That's pure incompetence on Intel's part. Even though we're in a recession, a lot of people foresaw the boom we'd experience in laptop sales. Windows 7 only helped catalyze the sales by unleashing the pent up demand!
Still, definitely not my father's Thinkpad. He doesn't have one, and will never have, most likely. Me, I'm just happy thinkpads still have a trackpoint.
I've got a couple 13's, to go with 3 macbook pro 13's. The Edge 13 running anything other than the AMD Processors throws the cost/benefit off.
Mine are all dual core AMD 1.5GHz, with 4GB, and running Windows 7 you never notice a slowdown with normal apps, You can run full 720p flash apps and minor web gaming. And these cost me around $500 each, which is exactly the same as the Dell and HP Atom machines, and the Edges are significantly, and noticeably, faster. Perception of performance is better, and the Atom machines were running XP, and Edges Windows 7. So it's faster, even when running 1.5 generation newer software.
Really... the IdeaPad is line... they are also very good notebooks. And better looking too.
And the thing is, Lenovo makes a "thinkpad" Netbook anyways for about $500.
As a ThinkPad owner, I agree the Edge doesn't belong under the ThinkPad name... perhaps as an Ideapad but its in competition with other IdeaPad models. Hmmm... makes me wonder if its an Idea pad under the hood.
I agree. About 3 months ago, my company brought an x200 thinkpad for about $1100. Why? Because of name and service. I really think this is a bad move for Lenovo and put $500 for a thinkpad because of the difference of looks and design compared with the other thinkpads. They should just spend some money promoting their ideapads instead and put the thinkpads name and design in the higher end ones.
Lenovo has been making $500~600 low end notebooks for some time. They are the SL & R series with slower/smaller parts. To get the $500 price, its usually a Celeron system with 1 GB.
A basic Core2Duo SL starts at $600... a friend added Wifi and WAN, more memory brought the price up to $700. The R series is now about $800 with Core2... The Ts at $1000. About 2 years ago, I bought an R61 for $550 off the shelf... not bad.
it is a piece of shit. The IBM branded T60 is infinitely better. The T61 doesn't feel much better than a regular off the shelf HP or Dell or any other regular laptop.
Aside from the article being nothing about the T60, the T60 and T61 have pretty much identical chasis and specs. T60, T61, T400, all hard to tell apart, all solid build.
So it sits in the middle of a range of benchmarks. Big deal.
Whats this going to be used for? Mainly web browsing and maybe the odd word doc.
CULV is the ideal choice for this kind of machine. It doesnt need anymore power.
I have a 13" laptop with the same CPU and a Nvidia 105M. Runs everything just great. I even get around 60fps in Eve Online bonus! I can use it for a days work without mains power...even bigger bonus.
If you gave most of those machines to a group of users to do what they normally do on a laptop I bet they could hardly tell the difference performance wise between any of them.
There was no "whining" in this article--merely pointing out that unlike most CULV laptops, this one has EC/34. It's the only feature that's out of the norm. As for being stuck in the middle, with a price that's higher than average it's certainly a problem. I don't get why you bring up other points as though we missed them. This will work as well as any CULV laptop, but it gets less battery life, it costs more, etc.
You mention your laptop with a 105M, but the Edge doesn't have the NVIDIA 105M (or any discrete GPU option) so that's a non sequitur. For the record, it also doesn't have a Blu-ray drive, and I have a laptop that plays Blu-ray movies perfectly! Hmmm....
No one is giving away laptops here, and that's why we have to review in comparison to other offerings. A lot of people would take any free laptop and not complain, but that doesn't mean they got a good laptop. I actually like the Edge (with matte finish) more than the Acer 1810T, as it has a nicer keyboard and feels more solid to me. It's definitely not solid like the ThinkPad T series, but many consumer laptops feel flimsy at best.
The question still boils down to whether you'd pay $100 more for what is essentially a change in appearance. If you're willing to get an SU4100 processor instead of the SU7300, you could even get the price down ~$200. So in a crowded market, the Edge is stuck in the middle because it does nothing to stand out. We should all celebrate the athletes that finish in the middle of the pack as well, I guess?
You're correct: no latch on this "ThinkPad". It's one of the points Vivek mentioned (on page 2):
"Most of the traditional elements of a ThinkPad are missing from the Edge. The rubberized black lid, the high-res matte screen, the ThinkLight, the lid latch, the metal hinges, the best mobile keyboard in the business, the blue enter key, the internal magnesium frame, the industrial grade casing, the boxy styling – it’s all gone. Other than the angled ThinkPad logo in the corner, the singular link the Edge shares with the classic ThinkPads is the red TrackPoint located in the center of the keyboard."
It's not a bad CULV laptop, but it's not spectacular either. It's a middle of the road, slightly more expensive alternative to designs like the Acer 3810T.
My point exactly! And also, these CPUs are not garbage. I am not content with the word "garbage". The CPU is great in what it does. And would you play a 1080p movie on a 13' notebook? If you have a HD screen at home you could get a HTPC for cheap these days and do whatever you like with 1080p. The CULV is better than the Atom and everything else AMD has to offer in that range...
Im loving all the notebook reviews you guys have been pumping out lately.
If I may make a request, could you look into the Sony CW line? It offers a i5 520, Geforce 330M and 1600*900 screen and is selling very well. I think a lot would be interested in a review on it. Its just a request though, I'm loving what you guys already put on the site.
You guys are the gold standard for laptop review for me, you cover everything, and then back it up. I love it!
I own x100e... it has the same keyboard and it is horrible. I also own a T400 and T60 with IPS Flexview screen -- best laptop ever, but getting old. The standard ThinkPad keyboards are miles better... This new fashion of square boxy keys introduced by the shape-obsessed and ergonomics-retarded Apple designers is a nightmare for the industry -- I am really scared the ThinkPad T line will now go the same route... it is a clear regress.
The new keyboard is physically monotonous -- the feeling of physical articulation is completely lost. Lenovo, please fire your originality-lacking marketing and design people. They will poison your technological marvels with the dumb Apple tricks tailored for the mindless masses...
Hopefully Lenovo won't mess with the T-Line... I doubt it... They are one of the important hold-outs with the CTRL-Fn key switch...
They are proud of their new keyboards, introduced in the T400s with the enhanced ESC and DEL keys.
The things I'd like to see with ThinkPads: switch Ctrl<>Fn (so CTRL is on outside) - some purist will complain which is WHY they haven't... but having a BIOS option to switch the keys would resolve that.
I like the new power & VOL button... easier to find the power button. The new keyboard standard on ALL Thinkpads, including the SL series.
Stop using decals on keys... which is what EVERYONE does nowadays :( Wouldn't mind the keyboards having LED lighting (like Apple) so the keys stand out in low-light environments. That would remove the need for the think light :) I'd pay an extra $50 for that option.
Get rid of the stupid USB "expansion" bay which is supposed to replace a true docking bay, it sucks.
Move the EDGE over to IdeaPad or cancel it out.... they have the S-series (netbooks), general notebooks and gaming/multimedia noteboos ($950 for 15" ATI 5730... not bad)... so keep only the AMD Edge version as a very portable notebook between net-book and the mid-range.
Also be cool is Lenovo was clear that which notebooks didn't have ANY horrible GLOSSY screens.
OH... we have some X200s, which are Core2 with 13" screens.
It doesn't have any of the good Thinkpad features, except for the track point which I don't use. Why the **** is it called Thinkpad? And why didn't Lenovo at least try to stand out of the CULV croud and offer something they already have: the excellent keyboard and matte screens. That could be enough to tip the balance in favor of the Edge. Now give it an e-IPS panel and you've got a really nice machine.
This notebook doesn't deserve to have the name Thinkpad anywhere on it.. what the hell was Lenovo thinking? It's like BMW sourcing out a car design to GM and putting their name on it.
According to Lenovo's website, and just about every other review I've read of the Edge 13, it does NOT have an EC/34 slot. The 14 & 15 does, but not the 13. Some 13.3 CULVs that do have it include Sony VAIO Y Series and the Dell Vostro V13 / Latitude 13.
"The CULV models start at $700 ($800 MSRP) and with few noteworthy benefits, the Edge is going to be a tough sell. The AMD model drops the price to under $500, but unfortunately battery life also plummets, so unless you're dying for a "Heatwave Red" ThinkPad the AMD Edge may not be the compromise you're after"
I have to say your review appears pretty sarcastic. Lets assume the average battery life of both the machines (Average means all kind of applications like web browsing, word type, spreadsheet and multimedia) are 4 hours for intel machine and AMD comes 25% lower at 3 hours. Now are you implying a 25% more average battery power is worth compared to 60% higher average selling price for an Intel machine over AMD machine? Even if 50% of the folks agree with you, I am sure the other 50% will disagree with you. Sure battery power is important for a portable equipment, but equally as important is the price which in this case is 60% lower. For you that may not be the compromise you are looking for but for me its definitely a good compromise, particularly in these trying economic times where salaries are lower and returns are also pretty lower.
Very interesting. After all of the "you can only integrate the memory controller once" and "it locks you into a specific memory type" talk from Intel back in the Athlon 64 era, now they're taking that route with their ultra low power CPU/platform. Best machine ever, thanks for sharing and great comments. Thanks http://www.smartparkingschiphol.com/vliegvelden/sc...
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8steve8 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
This laptop needs a ULV arrandale CPU like the i7-640UM currently in this fujitsu laptop:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Turbo boos on ULV is especially important, the clock rate nearly doubles when thermals allow, under normal usage this will speed you through the rare times CPU is limiting you, at turbo speed and will finish the task before the thermals throttle the frequency.
The keyboard looks perfect, trackpoint is amazingly better than any touchpad, but yes, it needs a better screen and an arrandale.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Unfortunately, that's $1500 for a 2GB, 160GB HDD laptop. Is it faster? Undoubtedly! But it's over twice the cost as well. Ouch!PyroHoltz - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
I agree we NEED new arrandale ULV chips, but that Fugitsu isn't the answer. At 160GB is disk space, thats a waste and who needs an optical drive in an ultramobile...? Give me an 11.6" chassis w/ a 640GB HDD along w/ optimus graphics and 4GB of DDR3 an scratch the i7-640UM for the cheaper i5-520UM. If that notebook is around $700 then I'll get excited.Intel get that damn arrandale ULV chips out to the vendors in mass, this is a joke! The Core 2 CULV chips were great 2 years ago, but we need to move forward. I know plenty of manufacturers have shown their models to carry these chips, MSI x360, Asus' new UL series and HP along w/ Dell all are showing models but nothing is coming because the chips are still delayed!
8steve8 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
agreed, the fujitsu is just proof that the ULV arrandales are out in some form. and concerning the price, its not like the arrandale is the reason why its $1k more expensive... the cpu is only ~$300PyroHoltz - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Well I'm glad to see someone else knows what these new chips(Arrandale UM) are all about.zeth006 - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
Amen to that. Intel's taking its sweet time. Blames a supply shortage for the delay. That's pure incompetence on Intel's part. Even though we're in a recession, a lot of people foresaw the boom we'd experience in laptop sales. Windows 7 only helped catalyze the sales by unleashing the pent up demand!ET - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Still, definitely not my father's Thinkpad. He doesn't have one, and will never have, most likely. Me, I'm just happy thinkpads still have a trackpoint.miniguyverona - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
I've got a couple 13's, to go with 3 macbook pro 13's. The Edge 13 running anything other than the AMD Processors throws the cost/benefit off.Mine are all dual core AMD 1.5GHz, with 4GB, and running Windows 7 you never notice a slowdown with normal apps, You can run full 720p flash apps and minor web gaming. And these cost me around $500 each, which is exactly the same as the Dell and HP Atom machines, and the Edges are significantly, and noticeably, faster. Perception of performance is better, and the Atom machines were running XP, and Edges Windows 7. So it's faster, even when running 1.5 generation newer software.
Belard - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Really... the IdeaPad is line... they are also very good notebooks. And better looking too.And the thing is, Lenovo makes a "thinkpad" Netbook anyways for about $500.
As a ThinkPad owner, I agree the Edge doesn't belong under the ThinkPad name... perhaps as an Ideapad but its in competition with other IdeaPad models. Hmmm... makes me wonder if its an Idea pad under the hood.
pugster - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
I agree. About 3 months ago, my company brought an x200 thinkpad for about $1100. Why? Because of name and service. I really think this is a bad move for Lenovo and put $500 for a thinkpad because of the difference of looks and design compared with the other thinkpads. They should just spend some money promoting their ideapads instead and put the thinkpads name and design in the higher end ones.Belard - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Lenovo has been making $500~600 low end notebooks for some time. They are the SL & R series with slower/smaller parts. To get the $500 price, its usually a Celeron system with 1 GB.A basic Core2Duo SL starts at $600... a friend added Wifi and WAN, more memory brought the price up to $700. The R series is now about $800 with Core2... The Ts at $1000. About 2 years ago, I bought an R61 for $550 off the shelf... not bad.
OCedHrt - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
it is a piece of shit. The IBM branded T60 is infinitely better. The T61 doesn't feel much better than a regular off the shelf HP or Dell or any other regular laptop.hangthe9 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Aside from the article being nothing about the T60, the T60 and T61 have pretty much identical chasis and specs. T60, T61, T400, all hard to tell apart, all solid build.Belard - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Hmmm.... there are slight differences between the R/T-60 and R/T-61... in most reviews, the 61 series are considered an improvement.The IBM logo looks better thou.
Compared to typical HP and other computers, they are easily better... for not too much more money.
In this market, there is no way to continue selling R / T Thinkpads for $2000~4000.
The SL is the cheapest THinkPad that looks kind of like a Thinkpad with some of the feature sets.
jabber - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
So it sits in the middle of a range of benchmarks. Big deal.Whats this going to be used for? Mainly web browsing and maybe the odd word doc.
CULV is the ideal choice for this kind of machine. It doesnt need anymore power.
I have a 13" laptop with the same CPU and a Nvidia 105M. Runs everything just great. I even get around 60fps in Eve Online bonus! I can use it for a days work without mains power...even bigger bonus.
If you gave most of those machines to a group of users to do what they normally do on a laptop I bet they could hardly tell the difference performance wise between any of them.
Benchmarks...make me dispair.
jabber - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
...no loss there at all.Who hooks up this kind of machine (or most laptops) to external stuff except the odd USB device...maybe less than 2%?
Thats why they dont have the slots. Listed as 'mostly useless'.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
There was no "whining" in this article--merely pointing out that unlike most CULV laptops, this one has EC/34. It's the only feature that's out of the norm. As for being stuck in the middle, with a price that's higher than average it's certainly a problem. I don't get why you bring up other points as though we missed them. This will work as well as any CULV laptop, but it gets less battery life, it costs more, etc.You mention your laptop with a 105M, but the Edge doesn't have the NVIDIA 105M (or any discrete GPU option) so that's a non sequitur. For the record, it also doesn't have a Blu-ray drive, and I have a laptop that plays Blu-ray movies perfectly! Hmmm....
No one is giving away laptops here, and that's why we have to review in comparison to other offerings. A lot of people would take any free laptop and not complain, but that doesn't mean they got a good laptop. I actually like the Edge (with matte finish) more than the Acer 1810T, as it has a nicer keyboard and feels more solid to me. It's definitely not solid like the ThinkPad T series, but many consumer laptops feel flimsy at best.
The question still boils down to whether you'd pay $100 more for what is essentially a change in appearance. If you're willing to get an SU4100 processor instead of the SU7300, you could even get the price down ~$200. So in a crowded market, the Edge is stuck in the middle because it does nothing to stand out. We should all celebrate the athletes that finish in the middle of the pack as well, I guess?
Shinobi123 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
From the picture I can't see any latch to hold the lid closed.And why a glossy screen? Who still uses that anyway?
JarredWalton - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
You're correct: no latch on this "ThinkPad". It's one of the points Vivek mentioned (on page 2):"Most of the traditional elements of a ThinkPad are missing from the Edge. The rubberized black lid, the high-res matte screen, the ThinkLight, the lid latch, the metal hinges, the best mobile keyboard in the business, the blue enter key, the internal magnesium frame, the industrial grade casing, the boxy styling – it’s all gone. Other than the angled ThinkPad logo in the corner, the singular link the Edge shares with the classic ThinkPads is the red TrackPoint located in the center of the keyboard."
It's not a bad CULV laptop, but it's not spectacular either. It's a middle of the road, slightly more expensive alternative to designs like the Acer 3810T.
strikeback03 - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
Unfortunately just about everyone still uses glossy screenswicko - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
That intel gpu is just garbage.. not asking for much, just something that can play 1080p content without stuttering and using up the CPU like crazy.AstroGuardian - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
You are so "off topic" here dude. Please concentrate on the topic.wicko - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Uhh, right, so commenting on the laptop being discussed at hand is off-topic? Right.. I suggest laying off whatever it is you're smoking.MadMan007 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Maybe he means you're off topic because the G45 does in fact do video acceleration?AstroGuardian - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
My point exactly! And also, these CPUs are not garbage. I am not content with the word "garbage".The CPU is great in what it does. And would you play a 1080p movie on a 13' notebook? If you have a HD screen at home you could get a HTPC for cheap these days and do whatever you like with 1080p. The CULV is better than the Atom and everything else AMD has to offer in that range...
Cali3350 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Im loving all the notebook reviews you guys have been pumping out lately.If I may make a request, could you look into the Sony CW line? It offers a i5 520, Geforce 330M and 1600*900 screen and is selling very well. I think a lot would be interested in a review on it. Its just a request though, I'm loving what you guys already put on the site.
You guys are the gold standard for laptop review for me, you cover everything, and then back it up. I love it!
saj4u - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
Just like to add to the notebook list the Lenovo X201. Curious to see how it stands from the T410 you guys just reviewed.aspenland - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link
I own x100e... it has the same keyboard and it is horrible. I also own a T400 and T60 with IPS Flexview screen -- best laptop ever, but getting old. The standard ThinkPad keyboards are miles better... This new fashion of square boxy keys introduced by the shape-obsessed and ergonomics-retarded Apple designers is a nightmare for the industry -- I am really scared the ThinkPad T line will now go the same route... it is a clear regress.The new keyboard is physically monotonous -- the feeling of physical articulation is completely lost. Lenovo, please fire your originality-lacking marketing and design people. They will poison your technological marvels with the dumb Apple tricks tailored for the mindless masses...
A cry of despair...
Belard - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
Hopefully Lenovo won't mess with the T-Line... I doubt it... They are one of the important hold-outs with the CTRL-Fn key switch...They are proud of their new keyboards, introduced in the T400s with the enhanced ESC and DEL keys.
The things I'd like to see with ThinkPads: switch Ctrl<>Fn (so CTRL is on outside) - some purist will complain which is WHY they haven't... but having a BIOS option to switch the keys would resolve that.
I like the new power & VOL button... easier to find the power button.
The new keyboard standard on ALL Thinkpads, including the SL series.
Stop using decals on keys... which is what EVERYONE does nowadays :(
Wouldn't mind the keyboards having LED lighting (like Apple) so the keys stand out in low-light environments. That would remove the need for the think light :) I'd pay an extra $50 for that option.
Get rid of the stupid USB "expansion" bay which is supposed to replace a true docking bay, it sucks.
Move the EDGE over to IdeaPad or cancel it out.... they have the S-series (netbooks), general notebooks and gaming/multimedia noteboos ($950 for 15" ATI 5730... not bad)... so keep only the AMD Edge version as a very portable notebook between net-book and the mid-range.
Also be cool is Lenovo was clear that which notebooks didn't have ANY horrible GLOSSY screens.
OH... we have some X200s, which are Core2 with 13" screens.
MrSpadge - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link
It doesn't have any of the good Thinkpad features, except for the track point which I don't use. Why the **** is it called Thinkpad? And why didn't Lenovo at least try to stand out of the CULV croud and offer something they already have: the excellent keyboard and matte screens. That could be enough to tip the balance in favor of the Edge.Now give it an e-IPS panel and you've got a really nice machine.
xerophinity - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link
This notebook doesn't deserve to have the name Thinkpad anywhere on it.. what the hell was Lenovo thinking? It's like BMW sourcing out a car design to GM and putting their name on it.orangesky - Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - link
According to Lenovo's website, and just about every other review I've read of the Edge 13, it does NOT have an EC/34 slot. The 14 & 15 does, but not the 13. Some 13.3 CULVs that do have it include Sony VAIO Y Series and the Dell Vostro V13 / Latitude 13.jolly_jugg - Tuesday, April 20, 2010 - link
"The CULV models start at $700 ($800 MSRP) and with few noteworthy benefits, the Edge is going to be a tough sell. The AMD model drops the price to under $500, but unfortunately battery life also plummets, so unless you're dying for a "Heatwave Red" ThinkPad the AMD Edge may not be the compromise you're after"I have to say your review appears pretty sarcastic. Lets assume the average battery life of both the machines (Average means all kind of applications like web browsing, word type, spreadsheet and multimedia) are 4 hours for intel machine and AMD comes 25% lower at 3 hours. Now are you implying a 25% more average battery power is worth compared to 60% higher average selling price for an Intel machine over AMD machine? Even if 50% of the folks agree with you, I am sure the other 50% will disagree with you. Sure battery power is important for a portable equipment, but equally as important is the price which in this case is 60% lower. For you that may not be the compromise you are looking for but for me its definitely a good compromise, particularly in these trying economic times where salaries are lower and returns are also pretty lower.
Sky Park Schiphol - Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - link
Very interesting. After all of the "you can only integrate the memory controller once" and "it locks you into a specific memory type" talk from Intel back in the Athlon 64 era, now they're taking that route with their ultra low power CPU/platform. Best machine ever, thanks for sharing and great comments. Thanks http://www.smartparkingschiphol.com/vliegvelden/sc...