Apple may not have a reputation for 'hard' basic comp-sci in the same was as IBM or even MS, but it's worth remembering this is the firm that based it's O/S around a micro-kernel when they were still an academic novelty.
We also tend to forget the fact they maintain an Advanced Computing Group, with a strong focus on HPC / grid computing - remember the stories of the supercomputers made from clustered G5 machines (back when the G5 actually was the fastest processor)??
Being the main proponents of Obj-C also makes them effectively the designers of a programming language, and it's OO runtime, which are again non-trivial problems. Be interesting to see what they're going to do with a CPU design firm too.
Anyway, I just wanted to add that the third major thing they're doing right now, which wasn't covered above, is the work around the LLVM project and clang - effectively replacing gcc with a new open-source compiler that has better integration with development tools at the front-end (clang) and spits out portable byte code at the back end.
If you're the kind of person who likes drawing inferences - if you wanted the ability to move code execution between different CPU/GPU architectures, compiling down to an intermediate byte code, then JIT optimising it for the CPU instruction set in question sounds an ideal approach.
As for Grand Central - the name implies dispatching and routing, rather than automatic parallelisation to me. Now a lot of the problems of concurrent computing are pretty similar to those of distributed computing, which IS an area where Apple have form. I'm guessing little more than a simple, lightweight way of balancing workload between cores. If it simplifies things in the same way that Obj-C distributed objects simplify things over the C++ equivalents then it will be significant.
(It's also worth noting that the Cocoa frameworks already apply some automatic multi-core enhancements to user applications, with work delegated across different cores and the GPU).
"We've talked before about how the movement from a fast single-core CPU to a slower multi-core CPU has created problems for developers; writing good multithreaded code is hard, really really hard"
Ain't that the truth. This is exactly the challenges Cray Research fielded in moving from core CPUs to multiple CPUs many decades ago. As oft quoted at Cray "1000 chickens all pulling at once" doesn't make up for real power.
Multicores are here to stay. The only other solution is a heat dissipation problem. So with that said... they need to make the multiple CPUs function together. To truly get the performance of MPP machines in a desktop.
That said, MPP has been achieved. MPP is here, and runs the fastest supercomputers in the world. The exact same core OS problems for MPP are those for onboard parallel processing. And it's well understood.
Apple may not be known in the "Hard Computer Science" realms, but I suspect a company like SGI is. OpenGL (made by SGI) is the perfect technology to get the ball rolling. Why not buy Nvidia? Or SGI?
Steve Jobs is just amaizingly smart business person. Not so many like him can be found. Apple still have problem however, if they are locked to AT&T only, they are making the elasticity of demand not so much elastic - particularly if Nokia computer devices are so much more open and getting closer to design to iPhone. Nokia's N800 needs only phone capabilities, and for $200 for unlocked device, Nokia's will be unbeat. Obviously, Motorola and Sony are very much out of the phone business
Umm, Apple's new iPhone is going for $199 for 8GB model, so Nokia can't come out with a $200 that's unbeatable. Last I checked apple's phone is unlocked (hehe, jailbreak anyone?). If the N800 is already $200, what makes you think they'll add Phone abilities for FREE?
Also, last I checked it was $280 on cnet for N800. Maybe you can get it cheaper with a contract. Last I checked it has NO GPS. Last I checked it has a puny 128mb flash. Yeah you can add some, but doesn't that cost more money? Last I checked Cnet's review said VIDEO SUCKS on it! Isn't a glorious screen meant to be used for Video? Can't sync with my PC? WTF? 3hrs battery vs 5hrs for iphone? Hmmmff...There's probably more but that's just a quick rundown on your supposed iphone killer.
your fanboyism is palpable. Absolutely ridiculous how you'd write two paragraphs on how superior the Iphone is.
You stick with your brushed aluminum and glass hardware that Apple marks up by %55 and locks into a ridiculously controlled environment. The upped service charges alone erase any possible advantage it could have. I'll respectively pass on such an offer.
Kudos to Apple for looking into these issues. I think that while maybe they arent on the forefront of computer science, I think they have sat back and looked around for someone to come up with a solution. They really seems to be looking out for their developers (which is interesting, but makes sense. Make it easier to code for your machines and there will be better app support etc.) and are sick of nobody stepping up. Maybe they have something. Maybe they only have an idea with the illusion of substance. Who know, only time will tell.
If Apple is able to deliver on Snow Leopard what they are saying they are going to do, it could really be revolutionary and VERY welcomed.
If by ironic you mean entirely appropriate, I agree. If you think because another platform is less stable than yours, you can sit on your laurels and not improve stability, you will soon be the least stable system.....
Agreed. The same should go for any company. Just because company A might be on top today doesn't mean that company B won't rise to topple company A. Classic example: AMD and Intel. Both have been caught with their pants down while resting easily on top.
The continued desire, search and action towards improvement in anything whether it's software, hardware or life in general is not as bad as some might think.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
18 Comments
Back to Article
JulesLt - Tuesday, July 1, 2008 - link
Apple may not have a reputation for 'hard' basic comp-sci in the same was as IBM or even MS, but it's worth remembering this is the firm that based it's O/S around a micro-kernel when they were still an academic novelty.We also tend to forget the fact they maintain an Advanced Computing Group, with a strong focus on HPC / grid computing - remember the stories of the supercomputers made from clustered G5 machines (back when the G5 actually was the fastest processor)??
Being the main proponents of Obj-C also makes them effectively the designers of a programming language, and it's OO runtime, which are again non-trivial problems. Be interesting to see what they're going to do with a CPU design firm too.
Anyway, I just wanted to add that the third major thing they're doing right now, which wasn't covered above, is the work around the LLVM project and clang - effectively replacing gcc with a new open-source compiler that has better integration with development tools at the front-end (clang) and spits out portable byte code at the back end.
If you're the kind of person who likes drawing inferences - if you wanted the ability to move code execution between different CPU/GPU architectures, compiling down to an intermediate byte code, then JIT optimising it for the CPU instruction set in question sounds an ideal approach.
As for Grand Central - the name implies dispatching and routing, rather than automatic parallelisation to me. Now a lot of the problems of concurrent computing are pretty similar to those of distributed computing, which IS an area where Apple have form. I'm guessing little more than a simple, lightweight way of balancing workload between cores. If it simplifies things in the same way that Obj-C distributed objects simplify things over the C++ equivalents then it will be significant.
(It's also worth noting that the Cocoa frameworks already apply some automatic multi-core enhancements to user applications, with work delegated across different cores and the GPU).
Homerpalooza - Thursday, June 12, 2008 - link
"We've talked before about how the movement from a fast single-core CPU to a slower multi-core CPU has created problems for developers; writing good multithreaded code is hard, really really hard"Ain't that the truth. This is exactly the challenges Cray Research fielded in moving from core CPUs to multiple CPUs many decades ago. As oft quoted at Cray "1000 chickens all pulling at once" doesn't make up for real power.
Multicores are here to stay. The only other solution is a heat dissipation problem. So with that said... they need to make the multiple CPUs function together. To truly get the performance of MPP machines in a desktop.
That said, MPP has been achieved. MPP is here, and runs the fastest supercomputers in the world. The exact same core OS problems for MPP are those for onboard parallel processing. And it's well understood.
Apple may not be known in the "Hard Computer Science" realms, but I suspect a company like SGI is. OpenGL (made by SGI) is the perfect technology to get the ball rolling. Why not buy Nvidia? Or SGI?
MaxDepth - Thursday, June 12, 2008 - link
Ryan,Did you get to attend? One of the companies Jobs introduced at the opening is located here in Durham, NC.
Modality -- creates flashcards and other learning tools for Apple products. Yay for the Triangle!
hakhak - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
" Full GPGPU support has been notably absent from the Mac so far while CUDA and Brook+ have been supported on Windows and Linux for some time now."Document yourself, CUDA is now available on mac...
http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_get.html#macos">http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_get.html#macos
icingdeath88 - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
5 points to the first person who can tell me what the P in Steven P. Jobs stands for without using Wikipedia.Crassus - Thursday, June 12, 2008 - link
Paulicingdeath88 - Thursday, June 12, 2008 - link
Congrats the 5 points are yours! too bad they're worthless...Crassus - Thursday, June 12, 2008 - link
I took it more as a challenge to my skills as a researcher :)How many points will get me a working lunch with Anand?
Crassus - Thursday, June 12, 2008 - link
http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Jobs.html">http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Jobs.htmlBarack Obama - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
It's not even on wikipedia lolAnanke - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
Steve Jobs is just amaizingly smart business person. Not so many like him can be found. Apple still have problem however, if they are locked to AT&T only, they are making the elasticity of demand not so much elastic - particularly if Nokia computer devices are so much more open and getting closer to design to iPhone. Nokia's N800 needs only phone capabilities, and for $200 for unlocked device, Nokia's will be unbeat. Obviously, Motorola and Sony are very much out of the phone businessTheJian - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
Umm, Apple's new iPhone is going for $199 for 8GB model, so Nokia can't come out with a $200 that's unbeatable. Last I checked apple's phone is unlocked (hehe, jailbreak anyone?). If the N800 is already $200, what makes you think they'll add Phone abilities for FREE?Also, last I checked it was $280 on cnet for N800. Maybe you can get it cheaper with a contract. Last I checked it has NO GPS. Last I checked it has a puny 128mb flash. Yeah you can add some, but doesn't that cost more money? Last I checked Cnet's review said VIDEO SUCKS on it! Isn't a glorious screen meant to be used for Video? Can't sync with my PC? WTF? 3hrs battery vs 5hrs for iphone? Hmmmff...There's probably more but that's just a quick rundown on your supposed iphone killer.
Ryanman - Thursday, June 12, 2008 - link
your fanboyism is palpable. Absolutely ridiculous how you'd write two paragraphs on how superior the Iphone is.You stick with your brushed aluminum and glass hardware that Apple marks up by %55 and locks into a ridiculously controlled environment. The upped service charges alone erase any possible advantage it could have. I'll respectively pass on such an offer.
ksherman - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
Hmm, this isn't really about the iPhone at all.Kudos to Apple for looking into these issues. I think that while maybe they arent on the forefront of computer science, I think they have sat back and looked around for someone to come up with a solution. They really seems to be looking out for their developers (which is interesting, but makes sense. Make it easier to code for your machines and there will be better app support etc.) and are sick of nobody stepping up. Maybe they have something. Maybe they only have an idea with the illusion of substance. Who know, only time will tell.
If Apple is able to deliver on Snow Leopard what they are saying they are going to do, it could really be revolutionary and VERY welcomed.
Lets go Apple!
Barack Obama - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
It's ironic how Apple is seeking to solve stability issues after critising windows for its lack of stability.Corland - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
If by ironic you mean entirely appropriate, I agree. If you think because another platform is less stable than yours, you can sit on your laurels and not improve stability, you will soon be the least stable system.....mikeepu - Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - link
Agreed. The same should go for any company. Just because company A might be on top today doesn't mean that company B won't rise to topple company A. Classic example: AMD and Intel. Both have been caught with their pants down while resting easily on top.The continued desire, search and action towards improvement in anything whether it's software, hardware or life in general is not as bad as some might think.
aeternitas - Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - link
Juicy