I've been anticipating your review since this announcement. How goes the progress?
As someone else pointed out, you for some reason have a Linux tag... on which the "Dual Core with Linux" review, the most recent, is dated July 1, 2005.
I hope your month with Ubuntu has long since commenced, has been a good one, and even if not I am anxious to hear your thoughts.
Ubuntu is over rated and not reliable as people once thought. I suggest pick a different distribution. For me to recommend a Linux distribution to people is hard because a lot of distribution fall short and just painfully hard to install and start using the desire distribution. I normally suggest Knoppix to people to try Linux because it has never let me down after many years of using it on several computers. The distributions that I try to force people to use is Gentoo as their final choice for any application such as server, desktop, and notebook. Yes it is tedious, but easy. It takes a day to a week depending and computer resources to install it. I recommend install Gentoo on a computer that is from a good power supply brand such as Seasonic or Enermax and the memory is ECC type. These two components makes installing Gentoo easier because data corruption will not become an issue. Sure Sabayon Linux could be a Gentoo alternative, but it failed my tests. I stamp Sabayon Linux poor.
The amount of years that I used Linux as a Desktop OS of choice is more than four years. I have used several Linux distributions and Gentoo became my flavor that I have settled for more than two years.
Please no more Ubuntu reviews. There are plenty of reviews of Ubuntu and one more review is going to make me sick. I will like to see Gentoo reviews, so people can see what is Gentoo is all about.
It has been over a month, and I have not heard a peep about this pending article. I have recently made the transition to Ubuntu myself, and would love to hear your thoughts on it as a primary operating system. I think it's far from perfect, but great strides have been made in the past couple of years with Ubuntu.
More Linux stuff on Anandtech would really be great. The "latest article" under your Linux tab is nearly three years old!
sudo is fantastic - get over having to put your password in a couple of times cause it is a big part of the security model and it really works.
ms tried to emulate it with vista but since no apps are written to follow the model of powerless desktop user / admin to do work it sucks.
but the upside of sudo - i dont even run a firewall at home on ubuntu - once setup i have had to enter the password once a week to do updates and thats it - no virus checkers needed like win.
ubuntu feisty general: i have changed video cards 3 times without trauma - and if you get into trouble (and have another pc) absolutely fabolous help is at hand - it runs WOW under wine better than my XP install - it is seriously stable, i tried leaving it going to see what the uptime would end up but ran out of things to download after 43 days and switched it off... runs vmware xp/2k3 svr in the background nicely for .net dev work
I like the freeness/open source of Linux, keepallows honest use on multiple PCs, fights the balkanization and DRM-ing down of our rights. However...
Been using Ubuntu 7.10 installed over XP Home via wubi-installer.org
No Linux distro has ever harmed my notebook (although GRUB has).
Very nice, almost as useable as Windows. However...
1. The su/sudo system sucks. made for institutions, not in tune with most home users' needs. I can't even repeat the crap I had to go to to enable XP (NTFS) access or other updates (maybe I had the nerve to try and create a folder - who remembers?)-drop to sudo, have to reboot - but Ubuntu wont allow you to login as root no no no...
(yeah probably some super secret command exists ) it kept me in a loop for quite awhile cant do this as user, cant do that as root yadayada. Yeah somehow i got it done, could never repeat it.
1b. I use firefox in ubuntu. Works fine but the updates are always delayed beyond when the Windows is available. And the update button is greyed out (unavailable). Why? The sudo crap thing again.
I first used "ubuntzilla" to update ff. Then sourceforge told me I could just run a command (something like sudo firefox -u or something). Of course this requires your password. But it doesn't update automatically. NOW you can go and click on the now-available update button. Sheesh!)
2. the mounting stuff sucks. I had to create a (shortcut? applet? hard link? soft/symbolic link? who the hell knows What I created on my desktop) to invoke NTFS-3g in Terminal, then I have the privilege of access to my XP folders and files.In Windows we do have the Safely remove Hardware icon - but that's for USB external drives, not everything.
3. GRUB absolutely blows. And it's supposed to better than LiLO???!!!
(for newer-than-me-bies, GRUB is the Grand unified Bootloader which, by being interruptible to use as command line, is supposed to be better than the LiLO = LinuxLoader [also other advantages...]
GRUB for me is a horror show - some linux distros use hda terminology, some sb0. See how often a different distro will screw up the GRub your previous distro installed...just try and edit it yourself!!
4. The Linux help system is also arcane. there are some help commands/pages, but mostly its "man" and "info" - and "info" never tells you how to exit it = happy reboot (I'll have to google that later...)
5. And don't even start with wireless compatability, esp WPA2, with the bizarroworld of MadWifi and WPA-supplicant . yes the newer releases are better but... And the really useful 10-year old (ok slight exaggeration) compatible chipset lists (and good luck trying to cross-reference THAT to actual-existing-for sale wireless CARDS, you know, the stuff you need to buy -or verify is in your motherboard)
In short, Linux is better as the only OS (Maybe some of the boot managers are useful -but I dont know how or if they manage GRub,or just work by installing Grubs to the separate distro partitions) and,
for a laptop, preinstalled (although prices are no bargain) to cover the wireless angle.
Pros: hundreds of distros; multiple desktops per distro ; good update apps (the basic updater is fine, and Synaptics installed kde and kde beta for me w/o any trouble)
Cons (beside above!) - info. stinks. And why, since the Ubuntu desktop is called "Gnome" didnt these geniuses allow you to restart the GUI by typing "Gnome" (in Terminal)? (after killing the GUI with Ctrl+Alt+Backspace) (I have the command written SOMEwhere...)
HTY.IMHO. FWIW.
You will need to focus a little on Linux Ideology and Open Source principles for a proper review. I am by no means suggesting you should lobby for one side or the other, but there are numerous design decisions influenced by Open Source philosphies as well as legel restrictions that have end-user impact.
The biggest are probably the lack of integrated MP3 and DVD playback, although Ubuntu will ask to install such support upon the first usage attempt. iPods are another issue with the current players that create a hash table of the iPod DB (it was reverse engineered, but I haven't followed up with its integration). Proprietary (restricted) video drivers are another issue. Explaining why Ubuntu does what it does would make for a fair review, as would explaining a few common ways to improve your Linux experience such as selecting a different MP3 player (if you are in the market) which can load files in USB disk mode.
There are definately things Windows does better and Linux should take it's lumps for that, but there are some things Linux and Ubuntu would do just as well if they weren't basing decisions on their philosophies and these issues need to viewed in that context to be fair.
In addition, there is nothing stopping developers from porting their apps to Linux. They might not get integrated package manager support in every distribution, but Linux can and does run proprietary software just fine concurrently with Open Source software. In other words, it's probably not fair to say that the Linux community doesn't support current iPods (especially given the steps Apple takes to make it difficult), but rather that Apple chooses not to support Linux. Repeat for various other proprietary hardware and software.
For whatever reason, lack of support is often placed solely on the Linux community, but we would never, for example, expect MS to provide built-in iPod support without any help from Apple.
good luck anand. i just installed Feisty Fawn today on a 20GB partition, and i have spent the entire time on ubuntuforums trying to set up my wireless network card drivers, and graphics card drivers so that i would have 1280x 1024 res
I really hope the Anandtech's Ubuntu article is posted from a point that a newb may approach linux. Until linux becomes good enough that new people can use it or understand it, it probably won't catch on. Ubuntu won't work for me no matter what version I tried because of some sort of dma mounting problem. I spent countless hours in forums reading and asking questions to no avail. Finally tried Mandriva spring 2007 and things are better. Learning how to set up hard drives and do command lines can be tough for a newbie. I honestly believe that linux is reserved for people who are a little more on the computer knowledable side. I don't think that fact will ever change. I'm glad I took the time to learn it, but then again, a lot of people don't have the time or have that kind of patience.
"other" is a little to distant. I have several setups for different needs ie storage, movies, gaming, writing, internet, kids, and a couple other oldies. Tired of Vista, Viruses and Volish deceptions I converted my internet rig to Ubuntu 7.10 about 6 weeks ago. It is working much better than I expected in this task and all downloads can be xfered and checked before installing elsewhere. Setup is simple, there are many add ons easily handled by Ubuntu's synaptic package manager. I am using my older rig with 1gig ddr 3200, amd 1.4 (!), a GeForce 3 video card and a newer low end foxconn mb. Doing all internet tasks on Ubuntu has given me confidence in this OS. It has NEVER crashed or even sputtered and it even looks good too. Ubuntu definitely has need for some improvements but start slow with internet tasks and you will not be disappointed. Looking forward to the next release.
I hope it will be more than just some end month report.
Give us atleast weekly if not more frequent blog updates progressing some good/bad experiences. Afterall that is a blog, then do an end month summary. If you wait a month you will forget the experiences of the first week and you won't be dealing with first impressions anymore but someone who got used to it after a month.
Like... today I installed it and it ate my Vista partition and the MBR got hosed. ;)
Thank you for committing to writing more linux articles in the future. I spend all of my office time in Ubuntu and only use my XP partition for gaming and a 3D modeler that doesn't work too well under Wine.
I am pleased to see that you are doing this article as I am going to Linux, whils on the ubuntu site I noticed several versions, can you please explain the differences. also 64 bit. please also write it in language that the inexperieced can understand.
First let me just say that I am primarily a Windows user, but also have several years experience with Linux, specifically Debian.
Ryan, I think it would be a good idea if you documented the Ubuntu upgrade 'path'. Many experienced Ubuntu users I know in real life, and over the internet, had a hell of a time the last upgrade, and I expect this time will be no different.
I would also like to see what you think about Ubuntu in a mixed platform envoirnment, which would give users who have multiple system in their homes an idea of how things may go. Personally I had Breezy setup at one point as a Samba server to share files across the network here, only to be disappointed by the fact that the machine would lock up every_single_time a Windows machine would access the share. Overall, compared to Debian, I have found Ubuntu less reliable, hell in some cases it was far less reliable than my XP Pro box.
Anyhow, here is to hoping Ubuntu becomes more polished in the future, so we all may ditch MS . . .
I use Ubuntu Ultimate 1.7 at home and work and love it. Ubuntu Ultimate 1.7 is based on Gutsy Gibbons 7.10 and has the most used packages already installed. You should check it out at http://ultimateedition.info/">http://ultimateedition.info/
Although I still feel there's a better distro out there, PCLINUXOS or PCLOS, I commend your effort to expand AnandTech's footprint to include more Linux based topics.
Remember, any Linux review is not complete without Unreal Tournament benchmarks. ;)
I've been using Ubuntu for over a year now as my primary OS on my desktop and laptop. The only driver issues I've run into were on my new laptop with the Broadcom built in Wireless, which is no fault of Ubuntu, it's Broadcom's for not releasing an open source driver/firmware (the firmware has to be "cut" from the windows driver in order for it to work). However the hardware support today in my opinion is incredible compared to what it was 8 years ago when I first tried Linux. Ubuntu was able to recognize and configure all of the hardware in my new laptop better than XP and Vista! It took me over two weeks to get XP working will all of the hardware in my laptop that I down(up)graded from Vista, and Vista was not stable due to the Vista Certified Audio driver. It took me two weeks to find the necessary drivers because HP feels the need to force me into using Vista (however I need XP as a secondary OS for hardware dev/analysis suite). For me this was my main reason to switch to Linux, the way hardware vendors (like HP, Dell, etc.) have handled the Vista transition has been terrible. When purchasing a new machine preloaded with Vista, they almost leave you no other choice because they do not offer any driver support for XP, and if you dislike Vista your only other options are to use Linux or rely on driver hacks for XP. For Linux to gain a stronger hold in the consumer market, it just needs to do everything a little bit better than Vista, because now and in the future it is going to be consumers only other option (until Apple decides to sell their OS for use on any x86 system)
please make sure you try and install it on a recent motherboard using 2 drives in raid-0.
lack of boot support for "fakeraid" / "bios raid" in almost all linux distributions has been a real problem for me. see also dmraid.
when i say install it, i mean:
a) start with two fresh new hdd,s
b) use the onboard raid bios to create a 2-drive raid-0 array
c) boot from live cd/installer
d) see if the live cd/installer detects the logical volume and try installing the os onto it.
I, and many others, would appreciate some attention being drawn to this area.
I switched to Ubuntu from Fedora for a linux development environment at work and liked it so much that I changed my home pc from xp to Ubuntu. I played around with Linux back in '95 - slackware dist, and had fun with it but didn't have time to constantly tweak all the things that needed to be tweaked or find compatible hardware.
I had been using Fedora and RHEL at work but didn't like it enough to switch. Here's why I liked ubuntu:
-Install CD lets you verify the main stuff is working before you bother to install.
-My wireless card "just worked" on my dell laptop
-Ditto for nvida laptop video
-Compiz fusion desktop effects worked awesome - I use the 3d cube for my workspace and have shortcuts to email, development env. , etc. Very Mac OSish.
-Ubuntu doesn't install lots of crap you don't need. At any time you can capture the list of stuff you've installed past the base to replicate your install somewhere else.
-OpenArena rules. OK I know you don't need ubuntu to play OpenArena but it installs very easily. Kudo's to id for open sourcing the engine.
I did find the sudo thing annoying but then found you can assign the root password and start using root by setting the password via sudo ... ie sudo passwd.
My only gripes are
The evolution email gets by - featurewise very much like outlook but I have occasional sync up problems with msoft exchange. Probably some MSFT compatibility problem where they haven't made the full API available.
The occasional website or Java program that's hard coded for Windows. There is one web app at work that requires a JVM that you can only install on Windows.
I feel like Ubuntu is what Fedora should have been. Anyway, if you haven't tried it, give it a shot!
I switched to Ubuntu from Fedora for a linux development environment at work and liked it so much that I changed my home pc from xp to Ubuntu. I played around with Linux back in '95 - slackware dist, and had fun with it but didn't have time to constantly tweak all the things that needed to be tweaked or find compatible hardware.
I had been using Fedora and RHEL at work but didn't like it enough to switch. Here's why I liked ubuntu:
-Install CD lets you verify the main stuff is working before you bother to install.
-My wireless card "just worked" on my dell laptop
-Ditto for nvida laptop video
-Compiz fusion desktop effects worked awesome - I use the 3d cube for my workspace and have shortcuts to email, development env. , etc. Very Mac OSish.
-Ubuntu doesn't install lots of crap you don't need. At any time you can capture the list of stuff you've installed past the base to replicate your install somewhere else.
-OpenArena rules. OK I know you don't need ubuntu to play OpenArena but it installs very easily. Kudo's to id for open sourcing the engine.
I did find the sudo thing annoying but then found you can assign the root password and start using root by setting the password via sudo ... ie sudo passwd.
My only gripes are
The evolution email gets by - featurewise very much like outlook but I have occasional sync up problems with msoft exchange. Probably some MSFT compatibility problem where they haven't made the full API available.
The occasional website or Java program that's hard coded for Windows. There is one web app at work that requires a JVM that you can only install on Windows.
I feel like Ubuntu is what Fedora should have been. Anyway, if you haven't tried it, give it a shot!
I'm happy to see you trying out linux.I've been using it for about a year now.I started with a dual boot setup with windows still available,which gave me some comfort at the beginning.I also have an older machine that I use as a guinea pig for different distros of linux,and believe me there is alot.I finally settled on PCLinuxOS for my main machine.Now I use linux for everything.My wife and my 11 year old son use it too.My son does still dual boot because of some games he likes:).I have tried Ubuntu and most of it's spinoffs like Mint,Kubuntu,gOS etc.Don't get me wrong the "buntus" are ok and alot of people seem to really like them but I think that there are other distros better suited for beginners,especially those making the transition from windows.PCLinuxOS,Mandriva and Mepis seem much easier and a little more intuitive for people wanting to get out from under windows.Maybe you can take them for a spin too.Anyway,have fun with your project.And thanks for a great website.
As you say, Ubuntu might not be the best choice. I have been testing Ubuntu but never really liked it. Because of two things:
1. The Gnome desktop which I don't think is as good as the KDE one.
2. The sudo command that annoys me like hell.
N.B. There are of course Kubuntu and sudo -s commands to avoid that.
I have settled for Fedora since that is based on Red Hat. It's good for running servers (Apache webserver, Samba for windows file sharing, etc.) All other distros of course have this too. But I like Fedora.
About installing NVidia driver. It's as easy as going in to you package manager.
If you like to have administration all in one tool you should go for PCLinuxOS or Mandriva (which PCLinuxOS is based on). But those to I had problems installing on the G33 based motherboard. There just wasn't drivers for the SATA controller.
I have installed Linux on computers from Quad core G33 Motherboard to older P4 boards.
I am suing a Dual core AMD 64. I swtiched my graphics card to a 8800GT without a hitch. Hardware problems are generally a thing of the past except for the times when companies refuse to make drivers for other than windows.
Wine runs World of Warcraft flawlessly. I am using it almost every day.
I have MythBuntu as my Media server infront of my TV. Fedora 8 on my desktop. But I am also running Windows XP and Vista. I can say without a doubt that Vista is the least stable of those operating systems.
It will be interesting to watch this progress. I started out giving Ubuntu a try last spring and started running Debian on my work laptop this past summer. I have Arch running on another machine and Ubunut on my daughter's machine.
I do think Linux is ready for 'normal' use users, but there are some tasks which you can not do unless you use a virtual Windows session or a dual-boot machine. (read: tax software)
I can't believe so many people had so many problems with video drivers and yet no one tried searching for answers.
Get ENVY it will setup the video drivers for you, just like a windows installer would.
If you're changing video cards, yes gnome won't run with the old drivers, if you removed them prior to rebooting it would be fine.
But just in case, you can always run ENVY from a text prompt.
I'm pretty sure that Ubuntu means "search" in some language. It's all you do with Ubuntu. Forums. Websites. Google search. Yahoo search. People look everywhere for answers. That's part of the problem, Ubuntu doesn't give you them. Heck, you have to go out of your way to install pretty much everything. Watching a YouTube video tkaes a big effort. Getting your mouse "back" button to work takes a big effort.
Let's face it, Ubuntu is for hobbiests. Some people just want an OS to work without spending a lot of time dicking around with it to get things to work.
Mac OS X is based on Unix and senile old ladies in Iowa have no problem using it. Not so with Ubuntu.
Ubuntu will make you fall to your knees and kiss Bill Gates feet and ingrown toenails for creating Windows.
Oh.
My.
God.
The horror, the horror of Gutsy Gibbon.
Trying to install drivers -- especially video drivers -- makes waterboarding seem like a day on an empty sun filled beach in the Bahamas with a super model lying next to you.
Double clicking to install a driver. Heard of it? Apparently Ubuntu has not. They make you suffer. Relentlessly. For hours. Days even. Send help. Please. I'm drowning.
And don't get me started with that godforsaken Grub that Ubuntu goos all over every single hard drive you've ever had. Yech.
I'd love to learn more on this things. In fact i almost switch my workstation OS to Ubuntu, the only thing that stops me is my .Net Developing Tools. Any other things i'm fine with it.
If I remember in your last blog, you have mentiond that you haven't step into the linux world and that this will be your very first. What I like about that this review may give a the true insite as to how well linux is really suited for the consumer because if you already know linux and did a review on it, then it may not be fair as to you already know the ins and outs of the system. For a new user it's a whole new experience. And I can't just wait for it.
But in the review also focus as to if linux is truly ready to be as a Windows alternative for the mass market.
I hate to be a sore loser but I really really wished you had decided to review the new Ubuntu when it came out...or heck...even reviewed both the current version and the upcoming version. Don't take it the wrong way, I still very much look forward to this review but I think a review of the new one would've been a lot better. When I first saw that you guys are doing the test on the current version I asked myself 'why are they doing it on this one...are they short on articles or something at AT?'
But in any case, I hope that you guys still end up doing a review on the new Ubuntu when it comes out. And until then, I'll just await this review because despite what I said, I'm still looking forward to any article written by you guys :)
I recently built some new computers, using the 8800GT video card from nVidia -- this card is hugely popular, but fairly new. I can't recall the last time I couldn't install an operating system and at least get basic graphical mode to work. But Kubuntu 7.10 totally chokes on this card, and installs its default nv driver which won't work with this card. Trying to use the apt package manager for a newer driver won't work -- nothing seems to properly support this card. Installing the nVidia official driver (which process completely conflicts with the built-in pkg driver system) provides a one-use driver that will startx at that point, but not when you reboot. On a 32-bit system at least you (often) get bounced back into a console; on 64, you always end up at an empty screen.
To actually get the damn thing to work requires manually editing an obscure driver conf file to force a couple of stock drivers not to load, then deleting several driver folders, THEN installing the nVidia driver using nVidia's installer.
Oh... and pray to God you don't forgot the Kubuntu install disk in your CD ROM drive when rebooting, because it unilaterally wipes out your xorg.conf file (at least being nice enough to make a copy) and replaces it with the stupid braindead version that doesn't work. So you are then left scratching your head why the video doesn't work anymore.
Got Kubuntu installed, and now maybe want to test the microphone? Good luck finding anything installed by default to do that.
Why the hell does this lame-ass "Dolphin" app now exist, when Konqueror file browser is already great???
I could probably relate so many more things. The bottom line is that there are some things to like about using Linux and Kubuntu, but overall, there are a seemingly never-ending supply of HUGE annoyances and hassles that end up sucking up your time, your energy, and your life, and that always necessitate an incredibly detailed level of technical knowledge to ultimately resolve.
At the very least, Linux would NEVER be appropriate for a casual computer user to attempt to install and manage for themselves. They will certainly (over time), whether during installation, or eventually, hit major issues that require tremendous expertise to deal with. You typically don't get that in Windows or especially Mac.
Now I know why I do not use Ubuntu. That is way to hard of a way to have to change a video card. In PClinuxOS I just used Synmantic to uninstall the video drivers and then restart X. Shut down the system. Install new video card and then start computer. After booting use Synmantic to download and install proper drivers. Restart X and its done. If I mess it up just type XFdrake at comand line to reset the drivers. I recently used the EVGA step up program so went from a 8800GTS 320 to a 7600GT to a 8800GTS 512 with out a problem changing drivers. If I am not mistaken the proper way to install new video drivers in Windows is almost the same. You should uninstall the old drivers before installing the new driver in Windows also.
Yes Linux takes a little getting used to. You need to spend some time reading the bbs for your choice of distro and be willing to ask questions. Linux dose not come with a manual. It comes with mostly freindly users willing to help you out and a search button on the BBS. Yes I do tend to mess up my linux system to a point that it needs an expert to fix it. But I have done the same to my Windows install. The solution is the same for both Linux and Windows. Reinstall the operating system. Linux is more picky in what hardware works. Web cams are the largest group of hardware not working at this time.
Heh, this isn't a typical video card upgrade experience. The problem is the nVidia driver in the ubuntu repository doesn't support the 8800gt yet. If you were going from a 7600 to an 8800gts, you wouldn't have to change anything, just swap in the card.
For those of us who do have a 8800gt and want to use it with ubuntu, you can get newer drivers from nvidia and install those and all works fine. I can't imagine what the hold up is with ubuntu updating the drivers in the repository however. I can understand the need to test things but people need to be able to use their hardware.
I look forward to read on your experience with ubuntu 7.10, my own experience has been less than great. Here some comments on that :
I had installed 7.10 both on my laptop and desktop. With 7.10 the sleepmode on my laptop did not work and the x3100 graphics is still blacklisted by Gnome. This means no graphics effects on the desktop, and if you do enable it video does not work anymore..
On my desktop the 8800gt support is scetchy at best and i could not get the cpu fan to spin down (i use speedfan for that under windows as the bios does not spin it down enough)
Good points : painless install next to vista, everything FREE, good GUI interface. Has lots of promise but due to the quite severe drivers problems with the 8800gt and the X3100 i decided to uninstall 7.1 and wait for what 8.04 will bring. All in all it's getting there but it's not nearly as smooth sailing as Vista by a long shot.
Ubuntu is very promising and has a great community, but it's not smooth enough for mainstream yet.
The problem with Linux now is that (especially with Ubuntu) there have been a TON of advances to make your life easier with installing devices.....video cards included.
I have found myself with Linux usually taking the hard way of doing things without realizing that within the software manager there is usually a quick and easy solution. No need to edit conf files. I've edited conf files so many times when I didn't need to I've really lost count. I would say good rule of thumb with Ubuntu is that ALWAYS look for the easier solution first. There is always something that will do what you want without editing a conf file.
VIDEO DRIVERS
For video drivers, by and large while the default installed driver manager is pretty good.... Envy for the novice user is better. It will install ALL nvidia drivers perfectly aside from TNT's and maybe the first series of nvidia cards. Baseline support is offered out of the box but if you want 3D acceleration you'll need it. ATI driver installation is pretty good.... not as trouble free as Nvidia but pretty good nonetheless.
If you are changing your video card simply using Envy uninstall the driver.... reboot... update Envy and reinstall/install a new driver. It's pretty painless. Considering Nvidia isnt' making thier drivers open at any time soon it can't get much easier unless Nvidia makes it easier. This isn't the fault of Linux but Nvidia.
I run Linux for just about everything and have found that I can do most things from DVR's, Emulators, to changing the way the OS looks and behaves completely (mine looks like Mac OS X on steroids) to running servers and SQL. All of this without spending more money and it works on the same box without any degradation of performance.
DISTRIBUTIONS
GNOME
Distributions are important. If you like Gnome which I do personally use Ubuntu as it's most definately the most hassle free version of the Gnome desktop out there. I tried Fedora but I started seeing errors quite early of my time of use so I I chucked it.
KDE
And I can't stress this enough... Ubuntu Dev team spends most of their time with the Gnome Desktop. If you like KDE please don't use Kubuntu. You'll save yourself from seeing a lot of the inherent bugs in KDE. I would recommend OpenSuse or Mandriva. Either of these runs KDE much better.
Last Thoughts
Eventually I will move to KDE but until they fix their menu problems I just can't use it until it's reliable for me. An example would be getting to I guess what would be their Control Panel is accessible like 4 different ways. Most things are like that it's enough to drive you insane. Anyway I hope this helps those users trying Ubuntu for the first time. Remember there's always a easier method available
I thought I would put a post up because I have seen some people incorrectly posting that the 8800GT does not work. When the 8800 GT first came out there were some bugs in the drivers that NVIDIA made for linux.
I have successfully installed Ubuntu 7.10 on 10 different machines without a problem. The desktop effects even work on a machine with a pentium 900, 256MB and a GeForce 2. I wonder how Vista would work on that machine.
Just as I have seen bugs on the Windows drivers too. I recently had repair a friends Windows machine that broke after a service pack update. Unfortunately Microsoft doesn't have the concept of "Live CDs" so we had to waste hours reinstalling Windows.
I would agree with you that sleepmode works poorly on many laptops. If you want good sleepmode support I would recommend getting a Dell.
Yes Linux has it flaws but so does Vista and Leopard.
i'm excited that Anandtech is doing this kind of review. i really respect the opinions of the writers on this site a lot more than on a lot of other tech sites i visit. what Linux needs for its success is thoroughly honest reviews on what its strengths and weaknesses are. there are plenty of Linux reviews out there that avoid talking about the deficiencies in a distro. i hope this review can capture the mentality of a person who would chose to go with open source and Linux versus proprietary and what their hopes are for the future of the software industry.
I don't know if this is in the scope of the article but i've been interested in switching to linux for either my desktop or laptop (or both). Will you be covering step-by-step installation including networking? Additionally, i'd like to see the article cover both laptop and desktop installation/usage. If you could throw in some other items like software upgrades, app installation etc. that would be dynamite.
I know there are plenty of articles out there for this stuff, but I prefer the well written AT articles (for the pictures :) ).
OK - at work I decided I'd start using Linux. Ubuntu was the first choice for a desktop workstation for software development. We use RHEL on our servers, and I've been a dabbler in Linux and BSD usage for about 10+ years now.
I originally Installed Ubuntu 7 - and then went through the upgrades to Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. It was all pretty painless. No more painful than Service Packs are on Windows. A little bit of a longer download though (I left it running overnight at the office).
Took me a little bit to get Java all configured up correctly (I prefer to use the Sun standard JVM over the plethora of VMs out there). Not a huge deal for the average user - but a little time consuming compared to Windows in terms of getting up and running with a complete Java dev. environment (IDE, Web Server, etc).
And now we come to the problems.
Since I still had an older Windows workstation - and it had the larger monitor, I figured lets switch monitors since the Linux workstation was moving into it's roll as my primary dev machine. Well that threw it off quite a bit. Big surprise. It couldn't quite identify my monitor, so I ended up selecting Generic 1280x1024. And it works. But non of the cool special UI effects worked anymore. The nVidia graphics card (an AGP 4x 6600) is more than sufficient for the effects... and they were working before. Poke poke poke. Ahhh - something in the X config is messed up. A little command line mojo cleared things up (the Compiz website has some useful instructions). But opening up the X config file shows that the GUI front-ends for managing that still have only the vaguest sense of how to keep track of things. The file was in a schizophrenic state confused about the graphics card, and what monitors, exactly, were in use.
In general though I am pleased. The Add/Remove software to the menu works wonders. It can be a little hard to figure out what's what though as the application naming in the open source world leaves a little to be desired. Perhaps the addition of a user driven "tagging" system would be helpful to increase the meta data about the software on offer. Also some filtering (K-desktop, Gnome, etc) would help for that search tool.
Good luck, and have fun doing the eval. So far, if I hadn't run into the issues with upgrading the monitor - I'd be very impressed.
This sums up my experience pretty well. everything was fine on the initial install, but as soon as I tried to change or add new hardware - nightmare! I was finally able to get a USB wireless network adapter working, but it was not fun...
I don't know if things have changed, but way back when I tried out Linux (Mandrake 7.1) for the second (and last) time, I had a smooth install and everything ran fine until I got a new videocard. This completely crashed X and I had to boot into Windows, download the new driver, reboot back into Linux, and install the driver from the command line before X would display anything. I think I uninstalled Linux the very next day.
I agree with Spivonious. I was using an onboard video card just fine. Then I put in a PCI-E video card. Gnome wouldn't start on Ubuntu 7.10.
When I reinstalled Ubuntu with the PCI-E card and the took the card out to try the onboard card, Gnome wouldn't start up.
I like Ubuntu quite a bit. If Linux could be a bit more robust with hardware changes, especially with the video cards, I would give them a try once again.
Sorry, that doesn't help. What am I supposed to do with XOrg? I found a bunch of posts that said "This is the fix." Then I followed it, and after a while, my old configuration was broken so that I couldn't go back to my old hardware config either.
And the fact that I have to restart the computer every time to see if a little "fix" I made in the computer works or not takes too long.
All I can say is that on Windows, this particular hardware switch problem isn't as bad. Windows isn't perfect either, but it's just easier for the average user.
This is one of the big problems with Ubuntu - too many well meaning, new users. I can understand that you think you need to restart your computer, when in fact you only need to restart X/gdm:
Should do the trick. You can also kill X by the ctrl-alt-backspace combination -- which will, if you have a display manager runnin (like gdm, kdm or xdm) restart the GUI.
It's not exactly obvious -- and Debian has some of the same problems with finding out where to understanding the system -- they do however have extensive documentaion available as a package, or from http://www.debian.org">http://www.debian.org
Both Debian and Ubuntu does suffer a bit from Debian's old roots -- there's the old, command line approach, for those that know the system well, and the shiny, almost complete gui approach (largely based on Gnome) for the new user. Works fine until the there's a GUI-problem.
BTW: Maybe there should be a "Preveiw"-Button for comments?
As many people will want to install Ubuntu together with Windows It'd be great if you looked into the problems you may and probably will stumble into then. Especially when you are using fakeraid like Intel Matrix.
I think Ubuntu can be really great although it really needs to be easier to install on systems like the one I described.
I didn't get through all the comments on the last post (way too many), but did you mention what hardware this will be run on? I have installed Ubuntu 7.04 and 7.10 on a few different Intel-based systems, and getting it installed on my home computer was much more difficult than the ones at work. The only substantial difference would seem to be the P965 chipset at home vs. the P35 in the work computers.
Nice to see a review from people I can actually understand. Might be nice, though, if before posting the review you guys posted a methodology of how you'll be reviewing ubuntu and other open source OSs.
As a web developer, though 95% .NET oriented, it might be nice if you guys could talk a bit about developing tools included in the OS. I'm stil interested on Linux for this, but I can't dedicate 36 hours a day to learn to do everything. And no, it's not fun, for me coding is fun not fighting with some command line tool that's barely documented.
it will never move forward if all the linux nuts are living in the past and stuck with shell. Windows moved on from dos years ago, why is it so hard for everyone in linux world to do the same thing? The only use is when connecting to servers via SSH, but for desktops its rubbish. The sooner shell is pushed to the depths the better...
Uh, windows has a very advanced command line, one that is far more extensive than most people who do not bother reading the documentation think. Especially now with Powershell.
Many system users no matter what Platform find it much easier to get *real* things done via the CLI. There are things people can do from the CLI in Linux, or Windows, that I am sure would blow your mind.
Oh, and, there is a reason why Linux has, and can use X. Perhaps you should do a bit of googling around for keywords such as xfree86, KDE, Gnome, Beryl, Compiz fusion, etc ? Lots of 'pretty eye candy' for those who can not find a use for a good CLI . . .
Its not polite to make generalisations or to name call.
The command line is the most direct and guaranteed way to get what you exactly desire in a system. It gives you complete control in a no nonsense manner.
Have you not ever encountered a situation where clicking something didn't work, and you ended up in frustration?
And by the way, I find it interesting that even Microsoft has their own shell. ie: Windows PowerShell.
In fact, what's more interesting, is that when you compare the Windows PowerShell to Bash (in Linux, Unix, etc), they're near identical!
"In fact, what's more interesting, is that when you compare the Windows PowerShell to Bash (in Linux, Unix, etc), they're near identical!"
Well actually, Linux CLI objects are all text based, Windows power shell object are true objects. There is a big difference, but the end results from using either can be the same, it *may* just take a bit more work to use a text based object in a fashion that is usefull.
In Linux there's allways a better version coming 'soon'.
And I admire you Ryan for doing this...many people will read it and enjoy it.
But the Linux-talibans...well maybe it's its esasier to face Talibans in Afganistan! ;-)
This is great ive been toying around with the idea to move over to Linux for a while now rather than go down the old route of paying yet more money for the "latest and greatest" offering from Microsoft.
Ill be holding off my upgrade to Windows Vista 64bit for a bit longer now.
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malrost - Wednesday, April 2, 2008 - link
I've been anticipating your review since this announcement. How goes the progress?As someone else pointed out, you for some reason have a Linux tag... on which the "Dual Core with Linux" review, the most recent, is dated July 1, 2005.
I hope your month with Ubuntu has long since commenced, has been a good one, and even if not I am anxious to hear your thoughts.
Electro - Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - link
Ubuntu is over rated and not reliable as people once thought. I suggest pick a different distribution. For me to recommend a Linux distribution to people is hard because a lot of distribution fall short and just painfully hard to install and start using the desire distribution. I normally suggest Knoppix to people to try Linux because it has never let me down after many years of using it on several computers. The distributions that I try to force people to use is Gentoo as their final choice for any application such as server, desktop, and notebook. Yes it is tedious, but easy. It takes a day to a week depending and computer resources to install it. I recommend install Gentoo on a computer that is from a good power supply brand such as Seasonic or Enermax and the memory is ECC type. These two components makes installing Gentoo easier because data corruption will not become an issue. Sure Sabayon Linux could be a Gentoo alternative, but it failed my tests. I stamp Sabayon Linux poor.The amount of years that I used Linux as a Desktop OS of choice is more than four years. I have used several Linux distributions and Gentoo became my flavor that I have settled for more than two years.
Please no more Ubuntu reviews. There are plenty of reviews of Ubuntu and one more review is going to make me sick. I will like to see Gentoo reviews, so people can see what is Gentoo is all about.
jayguy10000 - Saturday, March 22, 2008 - link
I honestly tried to like Ubuntu. I really did.But in the end, I felt like I would rather stick needles in my eyeballs than fight it.
Torturous.
PrincessNybor - Thursday, March 20, 2008 - link
It has been over a month, and I have not heard a peep about this pending article. I have recently made the transition to Ubuntu myself, and would love to hear your thoughts on it as a primary operating system. I think it's far from perfect, but great strides have been made in the past couple of years with Ubuntu.More Linux stuff on Anandtech would really be great. The "latest article" under your Linux tab is nearly three years old!
sparau - Monday, March 10, 2008 - link
sudo is fantastic - get over having to put your password in a couple of times cause it is a big part of the security model and it really works.ms tried to emulate it with vista but since no apps are written to follow the model of powerless desktop user / admin to do work it sucks.
but the upside of sudo - i dont even run a firewall at home on ubuntu - once setup i have had to enter the password once a week to do updates and thats it - no virus checkers needed like win.
ubuntu feisty general: i have changed video cards 3 times without trauma - and if you get into trouble (and have another pc) absolutely fabolous help is at hand - it runs WOW under wine better than my XP install - it is seriously stable, i tried leaving it going to see what the uptime would end up but ran out of things to download after 43 days and switched it off... runs vmware xp/2k3 svr in the background nicely for .net dev work
i love it (still, i'm not a noob)
mindless1 - Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - link
Dad are we there yet? ;-)trexpesto - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - link
"Expect at least a couple of blog posts related to the review throughout the next month." ? Did it start yet?bgold2007 - Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - link
I like the freeness/open source of Linux, keepallows honest use on multiple PCs, fights the balkanization and DRM-ing down of our rights. However...Been using Ubuntu 7.10 installed over XP Home via wubi-installer.org
No Linux distro has ever harmed my notebook (although GRUB has).
Very nice, almost as useable as Windows. However...
1. The su/sudo system sucks. made for institutions, not in tune with most home users' needs. I can't even repeat the crap I had to go to to enable XP (NTFS) access or other updates (maybe I had the nerve to try and create a folder - who remembers?)-drop to sudo, have to reboot - but Ubuntu wont allow you to login as root no no no...
(yeah probably some super secret command exists ) it kept me in a loop for quite awhile cant do this as user, cant do that as root yadayada. Yeah somehow i got it done, could never repeat it.
1b. I use firefox in ubuntu. Works fine but the updates are always delayed beyond when the Windows is available. And the update button is greyed out (unavailable). Why? The sudo crap thing again.
I first used "ubuntzilla" to update ff. Then sourceforge told me I could just run a command (something like sudo firefox -u or something). Of course this requires your password. But it doesn't update automatically. NOW you can go and click on the now-available update button. Sheesh!)
2. the mounting stuff sucks. I had to create a (shortcut? applet? hard link? soft/symbolic link? who the hell knows What I created on my desktop) to invoke NTFS-3g in Terminal, then I have the privilege of access to my XP folders and files.In Windows we do have the Safely remove Hardware icon - but that's for USB external drives, not everything.
3. GRUB absolutely blows. And it's supposed to better than LiLO???!!!
(for newer-than-me-bies, GRUB is the Grand unified Bootloader which, by being interruptible to use as command line, is supposed to be better than the LiLO = LinuxLoader [also other advantages...]
GRUB for me is a horror show - some linux distros use hda terminology, some sb0. See how often a different distro will screw up the GRub your previous distro installed...just try and edit it yourself!!
4. The Linux help system is also arcane. there are some help commands/pages, but mostly its "man" and "info" - and "info" never tells you how to exit it = happy reboot (I'll have to google that later...)
5. And don't even start with wireless compatability, esp WPA2, with the bizarroworld of MadWifi and WPA-supplicant . yes the newer releases are better but... And the really useful 10-year old (ok slight exaggeration) compatible chipset lists (and good luck trying to cross-reference THAT to actual-existing-for sale wireless CARDS, you know, the stuff you need to buy -or verify is in your motherboard)
In short, Linux is better as the only OS (Maybe some of the boot managers are useful -but I dont know how or if they manage GRub,or just work by installing Grubs to the separate distro partitions) and,
for a laptop, preinstalled (although prices are no bargain) to cover the wireless angle.
Pros: hundreds of distros; multiple desktops per distro ; good update apps (the basic updater is fine, and Synaptics installed kde and kde beta for me w/o any trouble)
Cons (beside above!) - info. stinks. And why, since the Ubuntu desktop is called "Gnome" didnt these geniuses allow you to restart the GUI by typing "Gnome" (in Terminal)? (after killing the GUI with Ctrl+Alt+Backspace) (I have the command written SOMEwhere...)
HTY.IMHO. FWIW.
Jovec - Sunday, February 24, 2008 - link
You will need to focus a little on Linux Ideology and Open Source principles for a proper review. I am by no means suggesting you should lobby for one side or the other, but there are numerous design decisions influenced by Open Source philosphies as well as legel restrictions that have end-user impact.The biggest are probably the lack of integrated MP3 and DVD playback, although Ubuntu will ask to install such support upon the first usage attempt. iPods are another issue with the current players that create a hash table of the iPod DB (it was reverse engineered, but I haven't followed up with its integration). Proprietary (restricted) video drivers are another issue. Explaining why Ubuntu does what it does would make for a fair review, as would explaining a few common ways to improve your Linux experience such as selecting a different MP3 player (if you are in the market) which can load files in USB disk mode.
There are definately things Windows does better and Linux should take it's lumps for that, but there are some things Linux and Ubuntu would do just as well if they weren't basing decisions on their philosophies and these issues need to viewed in that context to be fair.
Jovec - Sunday, February 24, 2008 - link
In addition, there is nothing stopping developers from porting their apps to Linux. They might not get integrated package manager support in every distribution, but Linux can and does run proprietary software just fine concurrently with Open Source software. In other words, it's probably not fair to say that the Linux community doesn't support current iPods (especially given the steps Apple takes to make it difficult), but rather that Apple chooses not to support Linux. Repeat for various other proprietary hardware and software.For whatever reason, lack of support is often placed solely on the Linux community, but we would never, for example, expect MS to provide built-in iPod support without any help from Apple.
rudolphna - Sunday, February 24, 2008 - link
good luck anand. i just installed Feisty Fawn today on a 20GB partition, and i have spent the entire time on ubuntuforums trying to set up my wireless network card drivers, and graphics card drivers so that i would have 1280x 1024 resNiteowler - Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - link
I really hope the Anandtech's Ubuntu article is posted from a point that a newb may approach linux. Until linux becomes good enough that new people can use it or understand it, it probably won't catch on. Ubuntu won't work for me no matter what version I tried because of some sort of dma mounting problem. I spent countless hours in forums reading and asking questions to no avail. Finally tried Mandriva spring 2007 and things are better. Learning how to set up hard drives and do command lines can be tough for a newbie. I honestly believe that linux is reserved for people who are a little more on the computer knowledable side. I don't think that fact will ever change. I'm glad I took the time to learn it, but then again, a lot of people don't have the time or have that kind of patience.osteopath - Thursday, February 21, 2008 - link
"other" is a little to distant. I have several setups for different needs ie storage, movies, gaming, writing, internet, kids, and a couple other oldies. Tired of Vista, Viruses and Volish deceptions I converted my internet rig to Ubuntu 7.10 about 6 weeks ago. It is working much better than I expected in this task and all downloads can be xfered and checked before installing elsewhere. Setup is simple, there are many add ons easily handled by Ubuntu's synaptic package manager. I am using my older rig with 1gig ddr 3200, amd 1.4 (!), a GeForce 3 video card and a newer low end foxconn mb. Doing all internet tasks on Ubuntu has given me confidence in this OS. It has NEVER crashed or even sputtered and it even looks good too. Ubuntu definitely has need for some improvements but start slow with internet tasks and you will not be disappointed. Looking forward to the next release.MadBoris - Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - link
I hope it will be more than just some end month report.Give us atleast weekly if not more frequent blog updates progressing some good/bad experiences. Afterall that is a blog, then do an end month summary. If you wait a month you will forget the experiences of the first week and you won't be dealing with first impressions anymore but someone who got used to it after a month.
Like... today I installed it and it ate my Vista partition and the MBR got hosed. ;)
anachreon - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
Thank you for committing to writing more linux articles in the future. I spend all of my office time in Ubuntu and only use my XP partition for gaming and a 3D modeler that doesn't work too well under Wine.Welshtrog - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
I am pleased to see that you are doing this article as I am going to Linux, whils on the ubuntu site I noticed several versions, can you please explain the differences. also 64 bit. please also write it in language that the inexperieced can understand.
Many thanks
yyrkoon - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
First let me just say that I am primarily a Windows user, but also have several years experience with Linux, specifically Debian.Ryan, I think it would be a good idea if you documented the Ubuntu upgrade 'path'. Many experienced Ubuntu users I know in real life, and over the internet, had a hell of a time the last upgrade, and I expect this time will be no different.
I would also like to see what you think about Ubuntu in a mixed platform envoirnment, which would give users who have multiple system in their homes an idea of how things may go. Personally I had Breezy setup at one point as a Samba server to share files across the network here, only to be disappointed by the fact that the machine would lock up every_single_time a Windows machine would access the share. Overall, compared to Debian, I have found Ubuntu less reliable, hell in some cases it was far less reliable than my XP Pro box.
Anyhow, here is to hoping Ubuntu becomes more polished in the future, so we all may ditch MS . . .
stmok - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
I'd definitely agree Debian is more robust than Ubuntu.Ubuntu is doable for a desktop, but there's a few things that can be improved.
I have a box that started with 6.06 LTS and upgraded to today's 7.10 (That's using it for the desktop role)
jerick70 - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
I use Ubuntu Ultimate 1.7 at home and work and love it. Ubuntu Ultimate 1.7 is based on Gutsy Gibbons 7.10 and has the most used packages already installed. You should check it out at http://ultimateedition.info/">http://ultimateedition.info/Jay - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
Although I still feel there's a better distro out there, PCLINUXOS or PCLOS, I commend your effort to expand AnandTech's footprint to include more Linux based topics.Remember, any Linux review is not complete without Unreal Tournament benchmarks. ;)
thedeek - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
I've been using Ubuntu for over a year now as my primary OS on my desktop and laptop. The only driver issues I've run into were on my new laptop with the Broadcom built in Wireless, which is no fault of Ubuntu, it's Broadcom's for not releasing an open source driver/firmware (the firmware has to be "cut" from the windows driver in order for it to work). However the hardware support today in my opinion is incredible compared to what it was 8 years ago when I first tried Linux. Ubuntu was able to recognize and configure all of the hardware in my new laptop better than XP and Vista! It took me over two weeks to get XP working will all of the hardware in my laptop that I down(up)graded from Vista, and Vista was not stable due to the Vista Certified Audio driver. It took me two weeks to find the necessary drivers because HP feels the need to force me into using Vista (however I need XP as a secondary OS for hardware dev/analysis suite). For me this was my main reason to switch to Linux, the way hardware vendors (like HP, Dell, etc.) have handled the Vista transition has been terrible. When purchasing a new machine preloaded with Vista, they almost leave you no other choice because they do not offer any driver support for XP, and if you dislike Vista your only other options are to use Linux or rely on driver hacks for XP. For Linux to gain a stronger hold in the consumer market, it just needs to do everything a little bit better than Vista, because now and in the future it is going to be consumers only other option (until Apple decides to sell their OS for use on any x86 system)hydrasworld - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
please make sure you try and install it on a recent motherboard using 2 drives in raid-0.lack of boot support for "fakeraid" / "bios raid" in almost all linux distributions has been a real problem for me. see also dmraid.
when i say install it, i mean:
a) start with two fresh new hdd,s
b) use the onboard raid bios to create a 2-drive raid-0 array
c) boot from live cd/installer
d) see if the live cd/installer detects the logical volume and try installing the os onto it.
I, and many others, would appreciate some attention being drawn to this area.
samthefish - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
I switched to Ubuntu from Fedora for a linux development environment at work and liked it so much that I changed my home pc from xp to Ubuntu. I played around with Linux back in '95 - slackware dist, and had fun with it but didn't have time to constantly tweak all the things that needed to be tweaked or find compatible hardware.I had been using Fedora and RHEL at work but didn't like it enough to switch. Here's why I liked ubuntu:
-Install CD lets you verify the main stuff is working before you bother to install.
-My wireless card "just worked" on my dell laptop
-Ditto for nvida laptop video
-Compiz fusion desktop effects worked awesome - I use the 3d cube for my workspace and have shortcuts to email, development env. , etc. Very Mac OSish.
-Ubuntu doesn't install lots of crap you don't need. At any time you can capture the list of stuff you've installed past the base to replicate your install somewhere else.
-OpenArena rules. OK I know you don't need ubuntu to play OpenArena but it installs very easily. Kudo's to id for open sourcing the engine.
I did find the sudo thing annoying but then found you can assign the root password and start using root by setting the password via sudo ... ie sudo passwd.
My only gripes are
The evolution email gets by - featurewise very much like outlook but I have occasional sync up problems with msoft exchange. Probably some MSFT compatibility problem where they haven't made the full API available.
The occasional website or Java program that's hard coded for Windows. There is one web app at work that requires a JVM that you can only install on Windows.
I feel like Ubuntu is what Fedora should have been. Anyway, if you haven't tried it, give it a shot!
SamTheFish
samthefish - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
I switched to Ubuntu from Fedora for a linux development environment at work and liked it so much that I changed my home pc from xp to Ubuntu. I played around with Linux back in '95 - slackware dist, and had fun with it but didn't have time to constantly tweak all the things that needed to be tweaked or find compatible hardware.I had been using Fedora and RHEL at work but didn't like it enough to switch. Here's why I liked ubuntu:
-Install CD lets you verify the main stuff is working before you bother to install.
-My wireless card "just worked" on my dell laptop
-Ditto for nvida laptop video
-Compiz fusion desktop effects worked awesome - I use the 3d cube for my workspace and have shortcuts to email, development env. , etc. Very Mac OSish.
-Ubuntu doesn't install lots of crap you don't need. At any time you can capture the list of stuff you've installed past the base to replicate your install somewhere else.
-OpenArena rules. OK I know you don't need ubuntu to play OpenArena but it installs very easily. Kudo's to id for open sourcing the engine.
I did find the sudo thing annoying but then found you can assign the root password and start using root by setting the password via sudo ... ie sudo passwd.
My only gripes are
The evolution email gets by - featurewise very much like outlook but I have occasional sync up problems with msoft exchange. Probably some MSFT compatibility problem where they haven't made the full API available.
The occasional website or Java program that's hard coded for Windows. There is one web app at work that requires a JVM that you can only install on Windows.
I feel like Ubuntu is what Fedora should have been. Anyway, if you haven't tried it, give it a shot!
SamTheFish
gplguy - Sunday, February 17, 2008 - link
I'm happy to see you trying out linux.I've been using it for about a year now.I started with a dual boot setup with windows still available,which gave me some comfort at the beginning.I also have an older machine that I use as a guinea pig for different distros of linux,and believe me there is alot.I finally settled on PCLinuxOS for my main machine.Now I use linux for everything.My wife and my 11 year old son use it too.My son does still dual boot because of some games he likes:).I have tried Ubuntu and most of it's spinoffs like Mint,Kubuntu,gOS etc.Don't get me wrong the "buntus" are ok and alot of people seem to really like them but I think that there are other distros better suited for beginners,especially those making the transition from windows.PCLinuxOS,Mandriva and Mepis seem much easier and a little more intuitive for people wanting to get out from under windows.Maybe you can take them for a spin too.Anyway,have fun with your project.And thanks for a great website.exal - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
I have been using Linux for some time now.As you say, Ubuntu might not be the best choice. I have been testing Ubuntu but never really liked it. Because of two things:
1. The Gnome desktop which I don't think is as good as the KDE one.
2. The sudo command that annoys me like hell.
N.B. There are of course Kubuntu and sudo -s commands to avoid that.
I have settled for Fedora since that is based on Red Hat. It's good for running servers (Apache webserver, Samba for windows file sharing, etc.) All other distros of course have this too. But I like Fedora.
About installing NVidia driver. It's as easy as going in to you package manager.
If you like to have administration all in one tool you should go for PCLinuxOS or Mandriva (which PCLinuxOS is based on). But those to I had problems installing on the G33 based motherboard. There just wasn't drivers for the SATA controller.
exal - Sunday, February 17, 2008 - link
I have installed Linux on computers from Quad core G33 Motherboard to older P4 boards.I am suing a Dual core AMD 64. I swtiched my graphics card to a 8800GT without a hitch. Hardware problems are generally a thing of the past except for the times when companies refuse to make drivers for other than windows.
Wine runs World of Warcraft flawlessly. I am using it almost every day.
I have MythBuntu as my Media server infront of my TV. Fedora 8 on my desktop. But I am also running Windows XP and Vista. I can say without a doubt that Vista is the least stable of those operating systems.
Give linux a try it will work for you
Tempusfugit - Sunday, February 17, 2008 - link
I have been running Linux of various flavours for a couple of years. It is good to see that others are finally giving it a try.However, I am not sure that it is ready for "prime-time" as yet. The comments about drivers and general user friendliness are valid.
The only way for the situation to get better is for more people to "give Linux a try".
The version of Linux is not really that important, hopefully, one will dominate eventually.
I am personally of the opinion that Gutsy Gibbon is not as good as Feisty.
indigo196 - Saturday, February 16, 2008 - link
It will be interesting to watch this progress. I started out giving Ubuntu a try last spring and started running Debian on my work laptop this past summer. I have Arch running on another machine and Ubunut on my daughter's machine.I do think Linux is ready for 'normal' use users, but there are some tasks which you can not do unless you use a virtual Windows session or a dual-boot machine. (read: tax software)
Chudilo - Saturday, February 16, 2008 - link
I can't believe so many people had so many problems with video drivers and yet no one tried searching for answers.Get ENVY it will setup the video drivers for you, just like a windows installer would.
If you're changing video cards, yes gnome won't run with the old drivers, if you removed them prior to rebooting it would be fine.
But just in case, you can always run ENVY from a text prompt.
drago - Saturday, February 16, 2008 - link
I'm pretty sure that Ubuntu means "search" in some language. It's all you do with Ubuntu. Forums. Websites. Google search. Yahoo search. People look everywhere for answers. That's part of the problem, Ubuntu doesn't give you them. Heck, you have to go out of your way to install pretty much everything. Watching a YouTube video tkaes a big effort. Getting your mouse "back" button to work takes a big effort.Let's face it, Ubuntu is for hobbiests. Some people just want an OS to work without spending a lot of time dicking around with it to get things to work.
Mac OS X is based on Unix and senile old ladies in Iowa have no problem using it. Not so with Ubuntu.
You get what you pay for.
Sudo this Ubuntu.
drago - Saturday, February 16, 2008 - link
Ubuntu will make you fall to your knees and kiss Bill Gates feet and ingrown toenails for creating Windows.Oh.
My.
God.
The horror, the horror of Gutsy Gibbon.
Trying to install drivers -- especially video drivers -- makes waterboarding seem like a day on an empty sun filled beach in the Bahamas with a super model lying next to you.
Double clicking to install a driver. Heard of it? Apparently Ubuntu has not. They make you suffer. Relentlessly. For hours. Days even. Send help. Please. I'm drowning.
And don't get me started with that godforsaken Grub that Ubuntu goos all over every single hard drive you've ever had. Yech.
Friends don't let friends drive Ubuntu.
anachreon - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
?????I'm not sure you've even used Gutsy if you actually posted this.
stmok - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
To install Nvidia or ATI drivers, simply move your mouse cursor to "System" => "Administration" => "Restricted Drivers Manager".Then enter your user password. (This is required as you are making system changes).
Click on the check mark to Enable. Click OK, then let the application download and install the driver for you. Restart the system. Done.
This process has worked for me regardless of ATI or Nvidia card.
I'm not sure what problem you have with GRUB as you chose not to offer little detail about your problem.
Your comment, while amusing, is a bit over the top.
jobejufranz - Saturday, February 16, 2008 - link
I'd love to learn more on this things. In fact i almost switch my workstation OS to Ubuntu, the only thing that stops me is my .Net Developing Tools. Any other things i'm fine with it.sht - Saturday, February 16, 2008 - link
You should look at MonoDevelop [1], I even think it is included in the VMware image provided at [2].[1] http://www.monodevelop.com/">http://www.monodevelop.com/
[2] http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.htm...">http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.htm...
Etern205 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
If I remember in your last blog, you have mentiond that you haven't step into the linux world and that this will be your very first. What I like about that this review may give a the true insite as to how well linux is really suited for the consumer because if you already know linux and did a review on it, then it may not be fair as to you already know the ins and outs of the system. For a new user it's a whole new experience. And I can't just wait for it.But in the review also focus as to if linux is truly ready to be as a Windows alternative for the mass market.
NoToRiOuS1 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I hate to be a sore loser but I really really wished you had decided to review the new Ubuntu when it came out...or heck...even reviewed both the current version and the upcoming version. Don't take it the wrong way, I still very much look forward to this review but I think a review of the new one would've been a lot better. When I first saw that you guys are doing the test on the current version I asked myself 'why are they doing it on this one...are they short on articles or something at AT?'But in any case, I hope that you guys still end up doing a review on the new Ubuntu when it comes out. And until then, I'll just await this review because despite what I said, I'm still looking forward to any article written by you guys :)
androticus - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I recently built some new computers, using the 8800GT video card from nVidia -- this card is hugely popular, but fairly new. I can't recall the last time I couldn't install an operating system and at least get basic graphical mode to work. But Kubuntu 7.10 totally chokes on this card, and installs its default nv driver which won't work with this card. Trying to use the apt package manager for a newer driver won't work -- nothing seems to properly support this card. Installing the nVidia official driver (which process completely conflicts with the built-in pkg driver system) provides a one-use driver that will startx at that point, but not when you reboot. On a 32-bit system at least you (often) get bounced back into a console; on 64, you always end up at an empty screen.To actually get the damn thing to work requires manually editing an obscure driver conf file to force a couple of stock drivers not to load, then deleting several driver folders, THEN installing the nVidia driver using nVidia's installer.
Oh... and pray to God you don't forgot the Kubuntu install disk in your CD ROM drive when rebooting, because it unilaterally wipes out your xorg.conf file (at least being nice enough to make a copy) and replaces it with the stupid braindead version that doesn't work. So you are then left scratching your head why the video doesn't work anymore.
Got Kubuntu installed, and now maybe want to test the microphone? Good luck finding anything installed by default to do that.
Why the hell does this lame-ass "Dolphin" app now exist, when Konqueror file browser is already great???
I could probably relate so many more things. The bottom line is that there are some things to like about using Linux and Kubuntu, but overall, there are a seemingly never-ending supply of HUGE annoyances and hassles that end up sucking up your time, your energy, and your life, and that always necessitate an incredibly detailed level of technical knowledge to ultimately resolve.
At the very least, Linux would NEVER be appropriate for a casual computer user to attempt to install and manage for themselves. They will certainly (over time), whether during installation, or eventually, hit major issues that require tremendous expertise to deal with. You typically don't get that in Windows or especially Mac.
efc321 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Now I know why I do not use Ubuntu. That is way to hard of a way to have to change a video card. In PClinuxOS I just used Synmantic to uninstall the video drivers and then restart X. Shut down the system. Install new video card and then start computer. After booting use Synmantic to download and install proper drivers. Restart X and its done. If I mess it up just type XFdrake at comand line to reset the drivers. I recently used the EVGA step up program so went from a 8800GTS 320 to a 7600GT to a 8800GTS 512 with out a problem changing drivers. If I am not mistaken the proper way to install new video drivers in Windows is almost the same. You should uninstall the old drivers before installing the new driver in Windows also.Yes Linux takes a little getting used to. You need to spend some time reading the bbs for your choice of distro and be willing to ask questions. Linux dose not come with a manual. It comes with mostly freindly users willing to help you out and a search button on the BBS. Yes I do tend to mess up my linux system to a point that it needs an expert to fix it. But I have done the same to my Windows install. The solution is the same for both Linux and Windows. Reinstall the operating system. Linux is more picky in what hardware works. Web cams are the largest group of hardware not working at this time.
MooseMuffin - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
Heh, this isn't a typical video card upgrade experience. The problem is the nVidia driver in the ubuntu repository doesn't support the 8800gt yet. If you were going from a 7600 to an 8800gts, you wouldn't have to change anything, just swap in the card.For those of us who do have a 8800gt and want to use it with ubuntu, you can get newer drivers from nvidia and install those and all works fine. I can't imagine what the hold up is with ubuntu updating the drivers in the repository however. I can understand the need to test things but people need to be able to use their hardware.
maveric7911 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Doing a review of any other of the 1000's of distros....hasemike - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I look forward to read on your experience with ubuntu 7.10, my own experience has been less than great. Here some comments on that :I had installed 7.10 both on my laptop and desktop. With 7.10 the sleepmode on my laptop did not work and the x3100 graphics is still blacklisted by Gnome. This means no graphics effects on the desktop, and if you do enable it video does not work anymore..
On my desktop the 8800gt support is scetchy at best and i could not get the cpu fan to spin down (i use speedfan for that under windows as the bios does not spin it down enough)
Good points : painless install next to vista, everything FREE, good GUI interface. Has lots of promise but due to the quite severe drivers problems with the 8800gt and the X3100 i decided to uninstall 7.1 and wait for what 8.04 will bring. All in all it's getting there but it's not nearly as smooth sailing as Vista by a long shot.
Ubuntu is very promising and has a great community, but it's not smooth enough for mainstream yet.
sc3252 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Its a GPU fan for starters. I have an 8800gt and it was very easy to lower the fan speed for the gpu, nvclock anyone?Connoisseur - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Damnit seriously? So I don't get the full effects in the gnome interface if I install it on my laptop? Hmm. Anybody figured out a fix yet?kac77 - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
The problem with Linux now is that (especially with Ubuntu) there have been a TON of advances to make your life easier with installing devices.....video cards included.I have found myself with Linux usually taking the hard way of doing things without realizing that within the software manager there is usually a quick and easy solution. No need to edit conf files. I've edited conf files so many times when I didn't need to I've really lost count. I would say good rule of thumb with Ubuntu is that ALWAYS look for the easier solution first. There is always something that will do what you want without editing a conf file.
VIDEO DRIVERS
For video drivers, by and large while the default installed driver manager is pretty good.... Envy for the novice user is better. It will install ALL nvidia drivers perfectly aside from TNT's and maybe the first series of nvidia cards. Baseline support is offered out of the box but if you want 3D acceleration you'll need it. ATI driver installation is pretty good.... not as trouble free as Nvidia but pretty good nonetheless.
If you are changing your video card simply using Envy uninstall the driver.... reboot... update Envy and reinstall/install a new driver. It's pretty painless. Considering Nvidia isnt' making thier drivers open at any time soon it can't get much easier unless Nvidia makes it easier. This isn't the fault of Linux but Nvidia.
I run Linux for just about everything and have found that I can do most things from DVR's, Emulators, to changing the way the OS looks and behaves completely (mine looks like Mac OS X on steroids) to running servers and SQL. All of this without spending more money and it works on the same box without any degradation of performance.
DISTRIBUTIONS
GNOME
Distributions are important. If you like Gnome which I do personally use Ubuntu as it's most definately the most hassle free version of the Gnome desktop out there. I tried Fedora but I started seeing errors quite early of my time of use so I I chucked it.
KDE
And I can't stress this enough... Ubuntu Dev team spends most of their time with the Gnome Desktop. If you like KDE please don't use Kubuntu. You'll save yourself from seeing a lot of the inherent bugs in KDE. I would recommend OpenSuse or Mandriva. Either of these runs KDE much better.
Last Thoughts
Eventually I will move to KDE but until they fix their menu problems I just can't use it until it's reliable for me. An example would be getting to I guess what would be their Control Panel is accessible like 4 different ways. Most things are like that it's enough to drive you insane. Anyway I hope this helps those users trying Ubuntu for the first time. Remember there's always a easier method available
grgraphics - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I thought I would put a post up because I have seen some people incorrectly posting that the 8800GT does not work. When the 8800 GT first came out there were some bugs in the drivers that NVIDIA made for linux.Nvidia fixed the bug you are referring to here http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_16...">http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_16...
I have successfully installed Ubuntu 7.10 on 10 different machines without a problem. The desktop effects even work on a machine with a pentium 900, 256MB and a GeForce 2. I wonder how Vista would work on that machine.
Just as I have seen bugs on the Windows drivers too. I recently had repair a friends Windows machine that broke after a service pack update. Unfortunately Microsoft doesn't have the concept of "Live CDs" so we had to waste hours reinstalling Windows.
I would agree with you that sleepmode works poorly on many laptops. If you want good sleepmode support I would recommend getting a Dell.
Yes Linux has it flaws but so does Vista and Leopard.
crimson117 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I'm not really interested in paying Cedega for the privilege, but if World of Warcraft ran on Linux natively, I'd switch in a heartbeat.Ohn0es - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I only play WoW under linux. I use 64 bit Ubuntu 7.10 as my primary os and play WoW with the free wine, not cedega. It works quite well.mofo3k - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
+1 , I have had great success with WoW on Kubuntu using WINE. I think it actually works better with wine than cedega.crimson117 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Also, I raid, so I need Ventrilo. Does that run under Wine, too?crimson117 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Answer: sort of:http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41737">http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41737
crimson117 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
What, if anything, doesn't work?Do all your UI Mods work?
What video card do you use?
Bruneauinfo - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
i'm excited that Anandtech is doing this kind of review. i really respect the opinions of the writers on this site a lot more than on a lot of other tech sites i visit. what Linux needs for its success is thoroughly honest reviews on what its strengths and weaknesses are. there are plenty of Linux reviews out there that avoid talking about the deficiencies in a distro. i hope this review can capture the mentality of a person who would chose to go with open source and Linux versus proprietary and what their hopes are for the future of the software industry.Connoisseur - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I don't know if this is in the scope of the article but i've been interested in switching to linux for either my desktop or laptop (or both). Will you be covering step-by-step installation including networking? Additionally, i'd like to see the article cover both laptop and desktop installation/usage. If you could throw in some other items like software upgrades, app installation etc. that would be dynamite.I know there are plenty of articles out there for this stuff, but I prefer the well written AT articles (for the pictures :) ).
Xenoterranos - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Are you going to do this on a portable or a desktop.I'd kind of hope for portable, since that's harder and waaay more fun :)
Waziir - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
OK - at work I decided I'd start using Linux. Ubuntu was the first choice for a desktop workstation for software development. We use RHEL on our servers, and I've been a dabbler in Linux and BSD usage for about 10+ years now.I originally Installed Ubuntu 7 - and then went through the upgrades to Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. It was all pretty painless. No more painful than Service Packs are on Windows. A little bit of a longer download though (I left it running overnight at the office).
Took me a little bit to get Java all configured up correctly (I prefer to use the Sun standard JVM over the plethora of VMs out there). Not a huge deal for the average user - but a little time consuming compared to Windows in terms of getting up and running with a complete Java dev. environment (IDE, Web Server, etc).
And now we come to the problems.
Since I still had an older Windows workstation - and it had the larger monitor, I figured lets switch monitors since the Linux workstation was moving into it's roll as my primary dev machine. Well that threw it off quite a bit. Big surprise. It couldn't quite identify my monitor, so I ended up selecting Generic 1280x1024. And it works. But non of the cool special UI effects worked anymore. The nVidia graphics card (an AGP 4x 6600) is more than sufficient for the effects... and they were working before. Poke poke poke. Ahhh - something in the X config is messed up. A little command line mojo cleared things up (the Compiz website has some useful instructions). But opening up the X config file shows that the GUI front-ends for managing that still have only the vaguest sense of how to keep track of things. The file was in a schizophrenic state confused about the graphics card, and what monitors, exactly, were in use.
In general though I am pleased. The Add/Remove software to the menu works wonders. It can be a little hard to figure out what's what though as the application naming in the open source world leaves a little to be desired. Perhaps the addition of a user driven "tagging" system would be helpful to increase the meta data about the software on offer. Also some filtering (K-desktop, Gnome, etc) would help for that search tool.
Good luck, and have fun doing the eval. So far, if I hadn't run into the issues with upgrading the monitor - I'd be very impressed.
kmmatney - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
This sums up my experience pretty well. everything was fine on the initial install, but as soon as I tried to change or add new hardware - nightmare! I was finally able to get a USB wireless network adapter working, but it was not fun...Spivonious - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Can you include a hardware upgrade scenario?I don't know if things have changed, but way back when I tried out Linux (Mandrake 7.1) for the second (and last) time, I had a smooth install and everything ran fine until I got a new videocard. This completely crashed X and I had to boot into Windows, download the new driver, reboot back into Linux, and install the driver from the command line before X would display anything. I think I uninstalled Linux the very next day.
Wolfcastle - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I agree with Spivonious. I was using an onboard video card just fine. Then I put in a PCI-E video card. Gnome wouldn't start on Ubuntu 7.10.When I reinstalled Ubuntu with the PCI-E card and the took the card out to try the onboard card, Gnome wouldn't start up.
I like Ubuntu quite a bit. If Linux could be a bit more robust with hardware changes, especially with the video cards, I would give them a try once again.
stmok - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
Its to do with XOrg. (the layer that handles GUI).You need to re-configure it by running:
=> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
Wolfcastle - Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - link
Sorry, that doesn't help. What am I supposed to do with XOrg? I found a bunch of posts that said "This is the fix." Then I followed it, and after a while, my old configuration was broken so that I couldn't go back to my old hardware config either.And the fact that I have to restart the computer every time to see if a little "fix" I made in the computer works or not takes too long.
All I can say is that on Windows, this particular hardware switch problem isn't as bad. Windows isn't perfect either, but it's just easier for the average user.
nameNotInUse - Monday, February 25, 2008 - link
This is one of the big problems with Ubuntu - too many well meaning, new users. I can understand that you think you need to restart your computer, when in fact you only need to restart X/gdm:sudo dpkg-reconfigure xorg
sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart
Should do the trick. You can also kill X by the ctrl-alt-backspace combination -- which will, if you have a display manager runnin (like gdm, kdm or xdm) restart the GUI.
It's not exactly obvious -- and Debian has some of the same problems with finding out where to understanding the system -- they do however have extensive documentaion available as a package, or from http://www.debian.org">http://www.debian.org
Both Debian and Ubuntu does suffer a bit from Debian's old roots -- there's the old, command line approach, for those that know the system well, and the shiny, almost complete gui approach (largely based on Gnome) for the new user. Works fine until the there's a GUI-problem.
BTW: Maybe there should be a "Preveiw"-Button for comments?
nivis - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
As many people will want to install Ubuntu together with Windows It'd be great if you looked into the problems you may and probably will stumble into then. Especially when you are using fakeraid like Intel Matrix.I think Ubuntu can be really great although it really needs to be easier to install on systems like the one I described.
dm0r - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I'll start to count the days for it :Dstrikeback03 - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
I didn't get through all the comments on the last post (way too many), but did you mention what hardware this will be run on? I have installed Ubuntu 7.04 and 7.10 on a few different Intel-based systems, and getting it installed on my home computer was much more difficult than the ones at work. The only substantial difference would seem to be the P965 chipset at home vs. the P35 in the work computers.xeutonmojukai - Sunday, February 17, 2008 - link
Ryan mentioned that he was going to be using one of their test beds that had been used as a Hackintosh prior to this new setup.Hopefully that helps. ^_^
InternetGeek - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
Nice to see a review from people I can actually understand. Might be nice, though, if before posting the review you guys posted a methodology of how you'll be reviewing ubuntu and other open source OSs.As a web developer, though 95% .NET oriented, it might be nice if you guys could talk a bit about developing tools included in the OS. I'm stil interested on Linux for this, but I can't dedicate 36 hours a day to learn to do everything. And no, it's not fun, for me coding is fun not fighting with some command line tool that's barely documented.
Xenoterranos - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
man bashthat is all.
wired00 - Monday, February 18, 2008 - link
...exactly why linux will never overtake windows.it will never move forward if all the linux nuts are living in the past and stuck with shell. Windows moved on from dos years ago, why is it so hard for everyone in linux world to do the same thing? The only use is when connecting to servers via SSH, but for desktops its rubbish. The sooner shell is pushed to the depths the better...
yyrkoon - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
Uh, windows has a very advanced command line, one that is far more extensive than most people who do not bother reading the documentation think. Especially now with Powershell.Many system users no matter what Platform find it much easier to get *real* things done via the CLI. There are things people can do from the CLI in Linux, or Windows, that I am sure would blow your mind.
Oh, and, there is a reason why Linux has, and can use X. Perhaps you should do a bit of googling around for keywords such as xfree86, KDE, Gnome, Beryl, Compiz fusion, etc ? Lots of 'pretty eye candy' for those who can not find a use for a good CLI . . .
stmok - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
Its not polite to make generalisations or to name call.The command line is the most direct and guaranteed way to get what you exactly desire in a system. It gives you complete control in a no nonsense manner.
Have you not ever encountered a situation where clicking something didn't work, and you ended up in frustration?
And by the way, I find it interesting that even Microsoft has their own shell. ie: Windows PowerShell.
In fact, what's more interesting, is that when you compare the Windows PowerShell to Bash (in Linux, Unix, etc), they're near identical!
yyrkoon - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
"In fact, what's more interesting, is that when you compare the Windows PowerShell to Bash (in Linux, Unix, etc), they're near identical!"Well actually, Linux CLI objects are all text based, Windows power shell object are true objects. There is a big difference, but the end results from using either can be the same, it *may* just take a bit more work to use a text based object in a fashion that is usefull.
stmok - Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - link
Sorry, I should say they're near identical when you're typing commands.bersl2 - Saturday, February 16, 2008 - link
info bash^^^ That is more.
Why the FSF doesn't believe in man pages, though, I will never know.
perzy - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
In Linux there's allways a better version coming 'soon'.And I admire you Ryan for doing this...many people will read it and enjoy it.
But the Linux-talibans...well maybe it's its esasier to face Talibans in Afganistan! ;-)
nightstorm - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
This is great ive been toying around with the idea to move over to Linux for a while now rather than go down the old route of paying yet more money for the "latest and greatest" offering from Microsoft.Ill be holding off my upgrade to Windows Vista 64bit for a bit longer now.
R3MF - Friday, February 15, 2008 - link
opensuse 11.0 with a pre-release KDE 4.1 due in June is one to watch for a future review however.