I've been searching for days on this. Gateway has a Broadcom driver and an empty slot next to the Intel wi-fi card. Plus, many reviews have a preproduction model with Bluetooth. Anyone have the part number, cost and where you can buy this so I can hook up a wireless mouse and/or keyboard without needing a dongle?
i've noticed elsewhere on the net that the P-7811 supports 2 harddrives, and some have even had the luxury of enabling raid 0/1. can anyone confirm that? reviewers?
I took my malfunctioning 7811 back to Best Buy today and exchanged it for another. The difference couldn't be starker. Whereas the old one was a crash-happy piece of junk, the replacement machine looks like it was made by a completely different company...a competent one. The performance, stability, and overall quality are first rate. I'm glad I managed to get my hands on one of the good ones at last.
The statements in the article about the 7811's poor stability are accurate. I bought the machine yesterday, and must say I'm pretty disappointed.
The first problem I noticed was that the Webcam only works sporadically. It'll activate the first time you click on it after boot, but thereafter it just craps out with a "Graph Render Failure" error message. This is apparently a fairly common problem with the Chicony webcam used by this machine and a number of others (including Toshiba and Acer laptops). I've tried the various solutions proposed on various web forums, but the problem remains unsolved.
The next (and from my perspective more important problem) is graphics performance. As long as the 7811 isn't taxed too hard, it will work fine with the standard driver. Run games like Spore, Crysis, or Sins of a Solar Empire, however, and you'll suffer through total lockups, bluescreens, and assorted other nastiness. Using the LaptopVideo2Go.com 177.92 with the patched .INF doesn't make any difference. Nor does the 177.98 driver. The lockups can happen as infrequently as every four or five hours or as frequently as every fifteen minutes. Even shutting down every service not essential to running the game makes no difference.
While, on paper, this looks like a good machine and excellent value for money, it's just too unreliable to be of any use. I'm a keen MMORPG fan, and I have no intention of spending three hours trying to find a pickup group, only to have my PC die the second I get into a dungeon.
I am looking at purchasing a Gateway P-7811 FX from Best Buy and I was wondering if the 3 year warranty they offer is worth $379? (They have a few cheaper/different warranty plans available in-store, but the $379 one is all they offer online.)
In addition, Geek Squad offers an optimization service which essentially wipes out all the trial software (something I am sure I can do myself) but they also go into the registry and clean out some of the hidden resource hogs (something I could learn but presently have little experience in). Geek Squad charges $129 for this service coupled with some antispyware and antivirus programs. They said they spent something like $1.5 million in R&D for this optimization process, but that was from someone trying to up-sell me. How hard would it be for me to learn to do this myself?
I did it before testing. I think AV and Firewalls are for people that don't know how to surf safe... you know, use Firefox, don't visit porn sites, and don't download all sorts of silly executables. It's amazing how sluggish even a fast system can feel with AV software running... at least in my experience.
Anyway, if you want a "clean" boot, run msconfig, go to the services and hide all Microsoft services, and then hit "Disable all". You can probably go to the startup tab and disable all of those as well. Then watch how fast your PC starts up! Just be careful of malicious websites....
As for the warranty, $379 for an additional three years is a lot, but I often feel consumer laptops aren't really designed to run for more than two years reliably. Considering it's pretty much impossible to find reasonably priced Gateway laptop parts online ($80 for a keyboard, $70 for a cooling fan, etc.), if you don't just want to toss it should something go wrong, I'd grab the warranty. FYI, having Gateway repair a laptop out of warranty is usually a $400 charge I think, plus parts.
Gateway doesn't offer the option to custom configure laptops; what they do offer is about 8 notebooks that use the same base design, with different options and prices. Right now, the P-7811 is the only model using DDR3 and 9800M GTS, but there will likely be other models in the future.
thank you, i have been to that page already but i am going to look it over again. i am most likely going to be buying this laptop in the next few weeks. i just don't know of any other place where i can get something similarly spec'd for even close to the same price.
Well, the P-173XL is already pretty well equipped. It has 2x200GB HDD, WUXGA (non-glossy I think?), 4GB RAM, and a T8300, plus 4GB DDR2. So it should be a bit slower on the CPU than the T-7811, and the 8800M GTS GPU is a bit slower as well, but you get more HDD space and performance. You also don't get an early PM45 chipset and BIOS. Still, I would assume in the near future Gateway will migrate most of their P-series FX parts to the PM45 with 9800 GTS platform.
Adobe is very likely to release the next generation of their applications (CS4?) this fall, which will probably be 64-bit as LightRoom 2 is.
Jarred has mentioned before that he is editor for other articles, does someone else edit his work, or is he using (Ed.) to insert comments into his own article?
I "ed" myself. So do some of the other editors at times (Gary). It's more of an "insert personal comment that isn't necessarily a direct part of the review" thing - or for humor at times. Don't take away my artistic license, dammit! :-)
Since I never run anything over 1440x900 I don't want to be forced to pay for a screen that costs more money when I see no benefit from that high of a resolution; not to mention it would make everything too small. Gateway needs more user customization on their website; like HP. Also, you can't say with a straight face that anyone needs a gaming laptop? What wrong with you? If you expect to be able to play current games on a laptop you bought 4 years ago you need a gaming laptop; even though you'll be playing those new games on min settings. Who doesn't need a gaming laptop? Who doesn't play games when they're away from the house if they have the ability?
I would never buy a laptop with a glossy screen. I'd rather look at what I'm working on (or playing with) than a reflection. Glossy screens are idiotic bling for idiots. Unfortunately mot people are idiots, as glossy screens sell better from stores than matte (it's shiny!).
You know, I used to feel the same way, and I still prefer non-glossy desktop displays. On laptops, though, the glossy LCDs frequently look better in terms of color and contrast. I've had the P-171XL and P-7811 sitting next to each other, and the glossy 7811 looks better in pretty much every way. The reflections are annoying at times, but in the right environment I definitely prefer it over a dimmer matte display.
Sorry if i missed it - but was there any temperature info about the different components in the review?
Personally own a 8600gt based laptop and the gpu temperatures are terrible, quickly into the 90's celcius as soon as i try to play a game. According to other users(at the notebook-review forums) i can expect this to worsen over time exceeding 100C, the more i play games the quicker the part degrades till it fails.
I didnt pay enough attention to the thermal perf of the laptop when buying, instead distracted way too much the performance graphs like the ones present in the above review. Certainly not going to make that mistake again.
Would the stability issues mentioned in the last page possibly be temperature related rather than a driver issue?
When the fan speeds kick up, temperatures are fine, but the P-7811 BIOS appears to need adjustment right now because the fan spins at lower RPMs most of the time. (The 171XL and 6831 didn't have this issue - it could just be a faulty unit as well, as this is prerelease hardware.)
Exhaust temps are hitting the 50C range at load on the GPU, and the core is hitting even higher temps. Instability could be heat related, as I mentioned on the concluding page. I'm hoping Gateway can provide a BIOS update so that I can include more details on the final roundup next week. (If you have an 8600M GT hitting 90C, there's definitely a problem with the design or BIOS.)
The roundup will also cover temps in more detail, as well as LCD quality, noise levels, and tests from other competing notebooks. Stay tuned.
If the fan speed is upped make sure you redo your battery tests. Both dell and hp have provided fan speed fixes that upped the fan to almost full all the time and users are complaining about the noise and adverse effect on battery life. Also running the fan at full was not the original design and may overheat the fan motor itself causing the fan to prematurely die, likely followed quickly by the whole notebook.
The current rumor is something is wrong in the power plane design on the G84/G86 and possibly G92/G94 which causes excessive heating and eventually cracks the surrounding die. Honestly if you somehow can i really recommend investigating this a little, your readers will appreciate it.
There are clues - the nvidia $200m charge, the halving of their share price, the dell and hp announcements. Dell discontinuing their xps line of gaming laptops, and except for quadros dont appear to be selling nvidia gpus at all in notebooks.
Re exhaust temps. I have been measuring core temps with riva tuner. Have upped the fan but it doesnt make much difference 5C tops. The thermal performance is consistent with most other users i can see. Some people have faulty units which run at 10C higher ie over 100C during gaming.
Sorry for going on so much...am just trying to give you the experience of a current "gaming" laptop owner. At the moment i honestly would advise other people to steer clear of these products entirely.
"The current rumor is something is wrong in the power plane design on the G84/G86 and possibly G92/G94 which causes excessive heating and eventually cracks the surrounding die. Honestly if you somehow can i really recommend investigating this a little, your readers will appreciate it."
As far as I can tell, the *rumors* being circulated by some very anti-NVIDIA groups are blowing things way out of proportion. NVIDIA couldn't provide any specific details (because of OEM relations and such), but failing mobile GPUs does not seem to be a rampant problem. I know that personally I have not had a single NVIDIA mobile GPU fail on me or anyone in my family during the past several years, and believe me the stress testing I put laptops through is quite intense.
Yes, there have been failures, but what percent are we talking about? NVIDIA can't say, the OEMs won't say, and you've got a few crazies out there pretending that 90% of mobile NVIDIA GPUs are failing. The actual cause of failures appears to be rapid heating and cooling of the GPU substrate (according to NVIDIA). So a modified fan algorithm is really all that's needed so that temps don't flip back and forth between say 70C and 90C... a constant 80C would be better. (Just guessing on the numbers, though - I didn't get details on temps, again because of OEM concerns.)
Anyway, from what I've heard, the $200M should be way more than is actually needed to address the failed GPUs... and it is only mobile GPUs. Don't put too much in stock prices, as a rumor can cause stock panic whether it is true or just malicious claims from a competitor.
My personal advice is: don't expect desktop performance from a gaming laptop, but if you're willing to spend more for the mobility option there are some decent laptops out there. Right now, I'd take the P-173XL over the P-7811, just because of the stability problems I've experienced, but I think they can fix it easily enough.
"As far as I can tell, the *rumors* being circulated by some very anti-NVIDIA groups are blowing things way out of proportion. NVIDIA couldn't provide any specific details (because of OEM relations and such), but failing mobile GPUs does not seem to be a rampant problem. I know that personally I have not had a single NVIDIA mobile GPU fail on me or anyone in my family during the past several years, and believe me the stress testing I put laptops through is quite intense. "
Roughly doing the maths at $400 per repair $200m will cover 500k repairs...As nvidia sold around 30m units last year thats 1 in 60 replaced. Of course if the OEM is covering part of the cost the failure rate is likely higher.
I realise when doing reviews the fun bit is all the performance figures, how many frames you get for your $....some time spent on less attractive things like how good the warranty is, ease of rma process and whether the system can run in a stable state for long periods would better help customers make a decision they are later happy with.
As long as your sure you are not selling them a lemon ;-)
For people that are interested in a bargain, I've seen the P-6831 at a little over $1000 at some Chicago area BBs. It has been discontinued because the P-7811 has shipped.
Any comment on the overall build quality of these Gateway laptops? I am considering getting one of the gaming laptops and durability/build quality is my primary concern.
I own an eMachines (later acquired by Gateway) laptop and it developed a crack within a few months on the back just under the screen.
Overall build quality seems good but not great. It's still a plastic chassis, so if you drop it or something it could break. I do know some people with a 6831 that have used it for the past ~6 months with no problems.
If you look at the magazines, Gateway's track record hasn't been that impressive, scoring pretty low on many aspects. So I'd be a little more wary when you're considering them. Your experience may be different from what the responses were after all.
All of the press releases, like the one I referenced above, concerning how many shaders are in the new 9800M chips states that the GTS is 64 shaders, GT 96 shaders, GTX 112 shaders.
Lack of details from NVIDIA is partly to blame. Wrapping things up at 2AM is another issue. While there were admittedly some errors on the number of SPs (caused by NVIDIA's crazy naming decisions), the vast majority of the text is correct. I have also added the clock speeds, now that I was able to access both laptops again. (I was out of town on family matters, so I was wrapping things up without access to the hardware.)
Initially, I thought the GPU in the 7811 was more SPs but with a lower core/shader clock relative to 8800M GTS, but it turns out it's the same number of shaders as the 8800M GTS but with a 20% higher core clock (600MHz compared to 500MHz). Also worth noting is that I had all of the SP counts correct in my http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=335...">mobile buyer's guide, so this was just a slip caused by the confusing names.
"One alternative was to simply shop online and purchase a similarly configured notebook from Gateway, and although the price was a few hundred dollars more you also got some upgrades. TigerDirect.com also carries many Gateway notebooks, including the P-173X FX for $1350, which bumps the processor up to a T7500."
This isn't entirely accurate. The Best Buy version has always had a identical Gateway Direct version, 6831 = P-171, 6860 = P-172. The P-173X has no Best Buy equivalent and could be bought direct from Gateway around the first/second week of May. The P-173X became available through online retailers when Gateway ceased their direct sales operation.
On the specs page, the 7811 FX is listed as having a 8900M GTS, which should be 9800M GTS.
I think there are quite a few situations where you might need a gaming laptop (not like you "need" food of course but you know what I mean).
I've been reading with interest because I have to go on travel for 6-8 months next year. I'll want something to play my games on but don't want to ship my desktop system out with me. This could be worth the investment and a huge upgrade from my current notebook.
9800M GT has 64 SPs; GTS has 96 SPs (like the GTX), and the 9800M GTX has 112 SPs. There's some debate about whether there's rebranding or if there are actual differences; judging by the performance, I'd bet on there being some changes. I believe, for example, that 9800M has the VP3 video processing engine and it is also fabbed on 55nm instead of 65nm... but I might be wrong.
Suck... I screwed that up. I don't know why NVIDIA switches GT/GTS meanings all the time. 8800 GTS 320/640 < 8800 GT < 8800 GTS 512. Now we have 8800M GTS < 8800M GT. Stupid. Also worth noting is that NVIDIA has released no specific details on the core/RAM clock speeds for the 9800M series.
I was basing my information upon what Clevo resellers were saying in the Notebook Review forums. There was this huge fight about this, due to nVidia posting the wrong specs on their webpage. When the NDA was lifted, they could come out and say that they were the same card.
But yea, nVIDIA is being really annoying with the suffixes. ATI has a pretty clear lineup, for now.
Okay, updated with the clock speed info from nTune (as well as NVIDIA's specs pages). It looks like all of the shaders are 1250MHz, while the RAM speed on all the units I've seen so far is 800MHz (1600MHz DDR3). I don't know for sure what the clocks are on the 9800M GT/GTX, as I haven't seen a laptop with that GPU yet. So in order of performance, and assuming 600MHz GPU clocks on all the 9800 cores, we have:
8800M GTS
9800M GTS (up to ~20% faster than 8800M GTS)
8800M GTX (up to ~50% faster than 8800M GTS)
9800M GT (up to ~80% faster than 8800M GTS)
9800M GTX (up to ~110% faster than 8800M GTS)
Now, the maximum performance increase relative to the 8800M GTS is based on the game being purely shader processing limited. Many games depend on GPU memory bandwidth and fill rate as well, in which case the difference will be much smaller.
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ezinner - Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - link
I've been searching for days on this. Gateway has a Broadcom driver and an empty slot next to the Intel wi-fi card. Plus, many reviews have a preproduction model with Bluetooth. Anyone have the part number, cost and where you can buy this so I can hook up a wireless mouse and/or keyboard without needing a dongle?Urbanos - Friday, September 26, 2008 - link
i've noticed elsewhere on the net that the P-7811 supports 2 harddrives, and some have even had the luxury of enabling raid 0/1. can anyone confirm that? reviewers?jfdmit - Saturday, September 13, 2008 - link
I took my malfunctioning 7811 back to Best Buy today and exchanged it for another. The difference couldn't be starker. Whereas the old one was a crash-happy piece of junk, the replacement machine looks like it was made by a completely different company...a competent one. The performance, stability, and overall quality are first rate. I'm glad I managed to get my hands on one of the good ones at last.jfdmit - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - link
The statements in the article about the 7811's poor stability are accurate. I bought the machine yesterday, and must say I'm pretty disappointed.The first problem I noticed was that the Webcam only works sporadically. It'll activate the first time you click on it after boot, but thereafter it just craps out with a "Graph Render Failure" error message. This is apparently a fairly common problem with the Chicony webcam used by this machine and a number of others (including Toshiba and Acer laptops). I've tried the various solutions proposed on various web forums, but the problem remains unsolved.
The next (and from my perspective more important problem) is graphics performance. As long as the 7811 isn't taxed too hard, it will work fine with the standard driver. Run games like Spore, Crysis, or Sins of a Solar Empire, however, and you'll suffer through total lockups, bluescreens, and assorted other nastiness. Using the LaptopVideo2Go.com 177.92 with the patched .INF doesn't make any difference. Nor does the 177.98 driver. The lockups can happen as infrequently as every four or five hours or as frequently as every fifteen minutes. Even shutting down every service not essential to running the game makes no difference.
While, on paper, this looks like a good machine and excellent value for money, it's just too unreliable to be of any use. I'm a keen MMORPG fan, and I have no intention of spending three hours trying to find a pickup group, only to have my PC die the second I get into a dungeon.
Sorry Gateway, nice try but no cigar.
atlmann10 - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
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http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Utilities/Syste...">http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Util...pair_Uti...
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atlmann10 - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
Gateway just released a BIOS update for the 7811 FX here's a linkhttp://support.gateway.com/support/drivers/getFile...">http://support.gateway.com/support/driv...te%20Ver...
wakasenshi - Thursday, August 21, 2008 - link
I am looking at purchasing a Gateway P-7811 FX from Best Buy and I was wondering if the 3 year warranty they offer is worth $379? (They have a few cheaper/different warranty plans available in-store, but the $379 one is all they offer online.)In addition, Geek Squad offers an optimization service which essentially wipes out all the trial software (something I am sure I can do myself) but they also go into the registry and clean out some of the hidden resource hogs (something I could learn but presently have little experience in). Geek Squad charges $129 for this service coupled with some antispyware and antivirus programs. They said they spent something like $1.5 million in R&D for this optimization process, but that was from someone trying to up-sell me. How hard would it be for me to learn to do this myself?
JarredWalton - Friday, August 22, 2008 - link
I did it before testing. I think AV and Firewalls are for people that don't know how to surf safe... you know, use Firefox, don't visit porn sites, and don't download all sorts of silly executables. It's amazing how sluggish even a fast system can feel with AV software running... at least in my experience.Anyway, if you want a "clean" boot, run msconfig, go to the services and hide all Microsoft services, and then hit "Disable all". You can probably go to the startup tab and disable all of those as well. Then watch how fast your PC starts up! Just be careful of malicious websites....
As for the warranty, $379 for an additional three years is a lot, but I often feel consumer laptops aren't really designed to run for more than two years reliably. Considering it's pretty much impossible to find reasonably priced Gateway laptop parts online ($80 for a keyboard, $70 for a cooling fan, etc.), if you don't just want to toss it should something go wrong, I'd grab the warranty. FYI, having Gateway repair a laptop out of warranty is usually a $400 charge I think, plus parts.
wakasenshi - Friday, August 22, 2008 - link
Thank you, I appreciate it.okron1k - Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - link
i'm curious if can configure when purchasing these? for example a different gpu or processor?JarredWalton - Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - link
Gateway doesn't offer the option to custom configure laptops; what they do offer is about 8 notebooks that use the same base design, with different options and prices. Right now, the P-7811 is the only model using DDR3 and 9800M GTS, but there will likely be other models in the future.http://www.gateway.com/systems/series/529598056.ph...">P-series Reference Page
okron1k - Thursday, August 21, 2008 - link
thank you, i have been to that page already but i am going to look it over again. i am most likely going to be buying this laptop in the next few weeks. i just don't know of any other place where i can get something similarly spec'd for even close to the same price.Engage - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
Any word on when/if and to what degree Gateway might be going to upgrade the P-173XL FX Edition?JarredWalton - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
Well, the P-173XL is already pretty well equipped. It has 2x200GB HDD, WUXGA (non-glossy I think?), 4GB RAM, and a T8300, plus 4GB DDR2. So it should be a bit slower on the CPU than the T-7811, and the 8800M GTS GPU is a bit slower as well, but you get more HDD space and performance. You also don't get an early PM45 chipset and BIOS. Still, I would assume in the near future Gateway will migrate most of their P-series FX parts to the PM45 with 9800 GTS platform.strikeback03 - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
Adobe is very likely to release the next generation of their applications (CS4?) this fall, which will probably be 64-bit as LightRoom 2 is.Jarred has mentioned before that he is editor for other articles, does someone else edit his work, or is he using (Ed.) to insert comments into his own article?
JarredWalton - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
I "ed" myself. So do some of the other editors at times (Gary). It's more of an "insert personal comment that isn't necessarily a direct part of the review" thing - or for humor at times. Don't take away my artistic license, dammit! :-)Hrel - Sunday, August 17, 2008 - link
Since I never run anything over 1440x900 I don't want to be forced to pay for a screen that costs more money when I see no benefit from that high of a resolution; not to mention it would make everything too small. Gateway needs more user customization on their website; like HP. Also, you can't say with a straight face that anyone needs a gaming laptop? What wrong with you? If you expect to be able to play current games on a laptop you bought 4 years ago you need a gaming laptop; even though you'll be playing those new games on min settings. Who doesn't need a gaming laptop? Who doesn't play games when they're away from the house if they have the ability?strikeback03 - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
I think the point was that with the possible exception of some people who work in the gaming industry, not many people NEED to be able to play games.I'm with Jarred on wanting the highest resolution LCD available, so we both agree that they need more customization options.
spuddyt - Saturday, August 16, 2008 - link
I want one A LOT!!!! but i'm in the UK, so i'm effectively screwed and am just going to end up getting some crappy dell POS....MamiyaOtaru - Saturday, August 16, 2008 - link
I would never buy a laptop with a glossy screen. I'd rather look at what I'm working on (or playing with) than a reflection. Glossy screens are idiotic bling for idiots. Unfortunately mot people are idiots, as glossy screens sell better from stores than matte (it's shiny!).JarredWalton - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
You know, I used to feel the same way, and I still prefer non-glossy desktop displays. On laptops, though, the glossy LCDs frequently look better in terms of color and contrast. I've had the P-171XL and P-7811 sitting next to each other, and the glossy 7811 looks better in pretty much every way. The reflections are annoying at times, but in the right environment I definitely prefer it over a dimmer matte display.rjc - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Sorry if i missed it - but was there any temperature info about the different components in the review?Personally own a 8600gt based laptop and the gpu temperatures are terrible, quickly into the 90's celcius as soon as i try to play a game. According to other users(at the notebook-review forums) i can expect this to worsen over time exceeding 100C, the more i play games the quicker the part degrades till it fails.
I didnt pay enough attention to the thermal perf of the laptop when buying, instead distracted way too much the performance graphs like the ones present in the above review. Certainly not going to make that mistake again.
Would the stability issues mentioned in the last page possibly be temperature related rather than a driver issue?
JarredWalton - Saturday, August 16, 2008 - link
When the fan speeds kick up, temperatures are fine, but the P-7811 BIOS appears to need adjustment right now because the fan spins at lower RPMs most of the time. (The 171XL and 6831 didn't have this issue - it could just be a faulty unit as well, as this is prerelease hardware.)Exhaust temps are hitting the 50C range at load on the GPU, and the core is hitting even higher temps. Instability could be heat related, as I mentioned on the concluding page. I'm hoping Gateway can provide a BIOS update so that I can include more details on the final roundup next week. (If you have an 8600M GT hitting 90C, there's definitely a problem with the design or BIOS.)
The roundup will also cover temps in more detail, as well as LCD quality, noise levels, and tests from other competing notebooks. Stay tuned.
rjc - Sunday, August 17, 2008 - link
If the fan speed is upped make sure you redo your battery tests. Both dell and hp have provided fan speed fixes that upped the fan to almost full all the time and users are complaining about the noise and adverse effect on battery life. Also running the fan at full was not the original design and may overheat the fan motor itself causing the fan to prematurely die, likely followed quickly by the whole notebook.The current rumor is something is wrong in the power plane design on the G84/G86 and possibly G92/G94 which causes excessive heating and eventually cracks the surrounding die. Honestly if you somehow can i really recommend investigating this a little, your readers will appreciate it.
There are clues - the nvidia $200m charge, the halving of their share price, the dell and hp announcements. Dell discontinuing their xps line of gaming laptops, and except for quadros dont appear to be selling nvidia gpus at all in notebooks.
Re exhaust temps. I have been measuring core temps with riva tuner. Have upped the fan but it doesnt make much difference 5C tops. The thermal performance is consistent with most other users i can see. Some people have faulty units which run at 10C higher ie over 100C during gaming.
Sorry for going on so much...am just trying to give you the experience of a current "gaming" laptop owner. At the moment i honestly would advise other people to steer clear of these products entirely.
JarredWalton - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
"The current rumor is something is wrong in the power plane design on the G84/G86 and possibly G92/G94 which causes excessive heating and eventually cracks the surrounding die. Honestly if you somehow can i really recommend investigating this a little, your readers will appreciate it."As far as I can tell, the *rumors* being circulated by some very anti-NVIDIA groups are blowing things way out of proportion. NVIDIA couldn't provide any specific details (because of OEM relations and such), but failing mobile GPUs does not seem to be a rampant problem. I know that personally I have not had a single NVIDIA mobile GPU fail on me or anyone in my family during the past several years, and believe me the stress testing I put laptops through is quite intense.
Yes, there have been failures, but what percent are we talking about? NVIDIA can't say, the OEMs won't say, and you've got a few crazies out there pretending that 90% of mobile NVIDIA GPUs are failing. The actual cause of failures appears to be rapid heating and cooling of the GPU substrate (according to NVIDIA). So a modified fan algorithm is really all that's needed so that temps don't flip back and forth between say 70C and 90C... a constant 80C would be better. (Just guessing on the numbers, though - I didn't get details on temps, again because of OEM concerns.)
Anyway, from what I've heard, the $200M should be way more than is actually needed to address the failed GPUs... and it is only mobile GPUs. Don't put too much in stock prices, as a rumor can cause stock panic whether it is true or just malicious claims from a competitor.
My personal advice is: don't expect desktop performance from a gaming laptop, but if you're willing to spend more for the mobility option there are some decent laptops out there. Right now, I'd take the P-173XL over the P-7811, just because of the stability problems I've experienced, but I think they can fix it easily enough.
rjc - Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - link
"As far as I can tell, the *rumors* being circulated by some very anti-NVIDIA groups are blowing things way out of proportion. NVIDIA couldn't provide any specific details (because of OEM relations and such), but failing mobile GPUs does not seem to be a rampant problem. I know that personally I have not had a single NVIDIA mobile GPU fail on me or anyone in my family during the past several years, and believe me the stress testing I put laptops through is quite intense. "There is an article in the WSJ today:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910081640451139...">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910081640451139...
As the article mentions HP and Dell have both extended their warranties specially to cover this. The analyst says that $200m might not be enough to cover it.
Roughly doing the maths at $400 per repair $200m will cover 500k repairs...As nvidia sold around 30m units last year thats 1 in 60 replaced. Of course if the OEM is covering part of the cost the failure rate is likely higher.
I realise when doing reviews the fun bit is all the performance figures, how many frames you get for your $....some time spent on less attractive things like how good the warranty is, ease of rma process and whether the system can run in a stable state for long periods would better help customers make a decision they are later happy with.
As long as your sure you are not selling them a lemon ;-)
disorder - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
For people that are interested in a bargain, I've seen the P-6831 at a little over $1000 at some Chicago area BBs. It has been discontinued because the P-7811 has shipped.Rekonn - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Thanks for an excellent review!rvikul - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Any comment on the overall build quality of these Gateway laptops? I am considering getting one of the gaming laptops and durability/build quality is my primary concern.I own an eMachines (later acquired by Gateway) laptop and it developed a crack within a few months on the back just under the screen.
Thanks
JarredWalton - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Overall build quality seems good but not great. It's still a plastic chassis, so if you drop it or something it could break. I do know some people with a 6831 that have used it for the past ~6 months with no problems.solgae1784 - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
If you look at the magazines, Gateway's track record hasn't been that impressive, scoring pretty low on many aspects. So I'd be a little more wary when you're considering them. Your experience may be different from what the responses were after all.Adamantine - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
http://geek-news.net/2008/07/nvidia-geforce-9700m-...All of the press releases, like the one I referenced above, concerning how many shaders are in the new 9800M chips states that the GTS is 64 shaders, GT 96 shaders, GTX 112 shaders.
Adamantine - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9800m_gts.htm...">http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9800m_gts.htm... 64 SP'shttp://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9800m_gt.html">http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9800m_gt.html 96 SP's
Confirming that the press release is accurate, at least on the SP count.
BTW, Gateway has never used a GTX in any of their gaming notebooks.
Way too many mistakes in this review.
JarredWalton - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Lack of details from NVIDIA is partly to blame. Wrapping things up at 2AM is another issue. While there were admittedly some errors on the number of SPs (caused by NVIDIA's crazy naming decisions), the vast majority of the text is correct. I have also added the clock speeds, now that I was able to access both laptops again. (I was out of town on family matters, so I was wrapping things up without access to the hardware.)Initially, I thought the GPU in the 7811 was more SPs but with a lower core/shader clock relative to 8800M GTS, but it turns out it's the same number of shaders as the 8800M GTS but with a 20% higher core clock (600MHz compared to 500MHz). Also worth noting is that I had all of the SP counts correct in my http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=335...">mobile buyer's guide, so this was just a slip caused by the confusing names.
Adamantine - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
"One alternative was to simply shop online and purchase a similarly configured notebook from Gateway, and although the price was a few hundred dollars more you also got some upgrades. TigerDirect.com also carries many Gateway notebooks, including the P-173X FX for $1350, which bumps the processor up to a T7500."This isn't entirely accurate. The Best Buy version has always had a identical Gateway Direct version, 6831 = P-171, 6860 = P-172. The P-173X has no Best Buy equivalent and could be bought direct from Gateway around the first/second week of May. The P-173X became available through online retailers when Gateway ceased their direct sales operation.
On the specs page, the 7811 FX is listed as having a 8900M GTS, which should be 9800M GTS.
djc208 - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
I think there are quite a few situations where you might need a gaming laptop (not like you "need" food of course but you know what I mean).I've been reading with interest because I have to go on travel for 6-8 months next year. I'll want something to play my games on but don't want to ship my desktop system out with me. This could be worth the investment and a huge upgrade from my current notebook.
sephiroth135 - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Page 2, 3rd tableNVIDIA GeForce 8900M GTS 512MB
should be
9800M
homerdog - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Same mistake on page 3.fabarati - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
The 9800m GT is just a rebranded 8800m GTX. So it is a faster card than the 9800m GTS.fabarati - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Ohterwise, good review.JarredWalton - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
9800M GT has 64 SPs; GTS has 96 SPs (like the GTX), and the 9800M GTX has 112 SPs. There's some debate about whether there's rebranding or if there are actual differences; judging by the performance, I'd bet on there being some changes. I believe, for example, that 9800M has the VP3 video processing engine and it is also fabbed on 55nm instead of 65nm... but I might be wrong.JarredWalton - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Suck... I screwed that up. I don't know why NVIDIA switches GT/GTS meanings all the time. 8800 GTS 320/640 < 8800 GT < 8800 GTS 512. Now we have 8800M GTS < 8800M GT. Stupid. Also worth noting is that NVIDIA has released no specific details on the core/RAM clock speeds for the 9800M series.fabarati - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
I was basing my information upon what Clevo resellers were saying in the Notebook Review forums. There was this huge fight about this, due to nVidia posting the wrong specs on their webpage. When the NDA was lifted, they could come out and say that they were the same card.But yea, nVIDIA is being really annoying with the suffixes. ATI has a pretty clear lineup, for now.
JarredWalton - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Okay, updated with the clock speed info from nTune (as well as NVIDIA's specs pages). It looks like all of the shaders are 1250MHz, while the RAM speed on all the units I've seen so far is 800MHz (1600MHz DDR3). I don't know for sure what the clocks are on the 9800M GT/GTX, as I haven't seen a laptop with that GPU yet. So in order of performance, and assuming 600MHz GPU clocks on all the 9800 cores, we have:8800M GTS
9800M GTS (up to ~20% faster than 8800M GTS)
8800M GTX (up to ~50% faster than 8800M GTS)
9800M GT (up to ~80% faster than 8800M GTS)
9800M GTX (up to ~110% faster than 8800M GTS)
Now, the maximum performance increase relative to the 8800M GTS is based on the game being purely shader processing limited. Many games depend on GPU memory bandwidth and fill rate as well, in which case the difference will be much smaller.
fabarati - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Oh, and a 1440x900 resolution is a WXGA+ resolution, not SXGA+.