When will people wise up that probably 90% do not need anything more than a good, correctly rated PSU. Even when I was doing SLI on an 8800GTS system I maxed out at about 500W. Processors were once space heaters and power hogs but that has done a 180 turn as people wanted computers to be better. Soon GPUs will be doing the same, storage is already getting more power efficient and memory is as well. This idea of marketing of uber high power supplies is going to end soon and may already be ending as the cost of energy heads to the sky. So as some companies continue to beat the dead horse others are now marketing power efficiency and quietness - who wants to work next to a 747 pushing out heat in their office?
Amen to that ! As a side mote...it is good to see GPUs FINALLY getting off of the 90nm mode ! They also need to put the crap on the top side as hot air rises...duh, why do they keep putting the hot side towards the FLOOR ?!
it's not a wise idea to plug something in with 2 cords as you have risks if each cord is on a separate circuit, you risk having a voltage potential (greater charge on 1 side of the circuit) and that CAN be unsafe...
I'll check when I get home, but I don't think anything in our house is less than a 20A breaker. And a 20A breaker won't typically trip till somewhere over 30A is drawn through it, so you still have some margin for more ridiculous power supplies.
Typical home wiring is 14 gauge with a 15amp max - NO EXCEPTIONS. In order for one to use a 20amp then the wire must be 12 gauge. This is the per the NEC. If it is a 120V 20A receptacle, one side will have a slot, the other will have a "T". As for getting 30A on a 20A breaker - I would get rid of that breaker as it is not rated correctly / is defective.
Well, I was wondering something similar, and that is why don't we run dedicated 220v to the PC in our houses here in the US?
Even if we don't use all of the power, all of our devices will be running more efficiently. If you have a direct line to your PC already you can change the outlet and add a circuit breaker (that connects to the other bus-bar) for making 220v.
In reality, notice what they already said, they are running a clocked quad with lots of hard drives and tri-sli 8800 Ultra on a PC Power 860.
I agree with them, you can't load it more than 500w (idle?), even with an extreme system like that. You are really just spinning up all those hard drives and charging all those caps when you start the PC (SATA with delayed spin-up?).
I am still using my PC Power Silencer 470, and wondering why it isn't rated for SLi, clearly it can do it, and probably overclocked with a couple hard drives. If you take a second look at those PC-Power ads, they are telling the truth. Their components are industrial grade, and rated for high load + high temps. I don't mean to say that their competitors can't handle a load, but my Silencer has never ramped up, I never even hear it over my hard drive, and this is a pretty nice one from a Tivo2.
Dont know if it was mentioned in the article because i hardly read any, but from the pics, these PSU's look exactly like the Thermaltake ToughPower PSU's. I have a 1200w ToughPower and as far as i can see there is no difference between them.
Both the Thermaltake ToughPower supply you have and the Xigmatek in this review are both rebadged CWT builds, which is why yours and this one look alike. Tt and Xigmatek are the rebadgers, CWT is the maker. It's just like Seasonic is the manufacturer of numerous other branded power supplies like Corsair's HX line and PC Power and Cooling's Silencer line. Open up a Seasonic, Corsair HX, and a PCP&C Silencer and you'll find, outside fan arrangement and heatsink choices for the fan arrangements, almost mirror image power supplies.
well read the article then. They state it is made by CWT...just like the Thermaltake Toughpower, the Xclio Greatpower, The Corsair HX1000, The Gigabyte Odins and several others.
[quote]We have heard from other companies that the basic CWT design is practically unusable as there are too many flaws inherent in the design.[/quote]
So, you've take some rumor, FUD, innuendo, whatever from one competitor about another without naming the source, investigating anything, pointing out the specific design flaws....yet print that "claim" as gospel?
Your credibility has just taken another nosedive. Or you've become nothing more than a paid mouthpiece for other companies....maybe like PCP&C, because that comment above sure does sound just like the FUD advertisements PCP&C ran back in 2003 against "unspecified" power supply sellers.
The ads were aimed at Antec even though the example PSU (PCP&C named the PSU as a "550W" but left the brand as a blank, but we all know who had a popular 550W back in 2003 when those ads were popping up in certain magazines) was clearly not a CWT build because they had an example unit shown with the case opened.
In fact, the PSU from that old ad looked like a Thermaltake 550W but with a unpainted casing rather than the black casing that Thermaltake used at that time. If you've got any Maximum PC mags from 2003 you can find easily the ads.
It always suspected that PC P&C was trying to point fingers at Antec and this review pretty much verifies that suspicions were correct in this guess. The sad thing is that if you take one of those CWT built Antecs and load and scope it, one will find that it was a competent unit with all the power it promised at better than 3% regulation and decent ripple. Had CWT not been hobbled with using the caps that Antec specifically asked for (Fuhjyyus), that particular build would be remembered very differently.
Seriously, shut the hell up and RTFA! They comment about some CWT builds having issues, but then they also point out that the overall performance of the latest CWT designs seems very good... as this review shows. I love how people get their pants in a bind over one little sentence/paragraph in an article.
"OMG, you talked about how people in the past said CWT sucks, but you're still reviewing them favorably! You're bought out by the competition AND by the company whose power supply you're reviewing! In fact, Intel and NVIDIA own you and pay for everything you write! I'm going to go read HardOCP instead, since they're only bought out by AMD!"
Give it a rest already. The only credibility taking a nosedive (again) is related to average reading comprehension and apparently already biased opinion. Hell, go back to reading Maximum PC and let the people that actually know hardware do their thing here.
I love people who comment about things they know nothing about.
In reality, CWT has made no changes to their designs....not a single thing. Of course, you might know this if you managed to ever read previous reviews of CWT-built power supplies from a few years ago...but who are you to bother to read and get any facts, but instead attack and rant about something you know nothing about.
The fact of the matter is Anandtech, and this particular reviewer, chose to publish a condemnation of CWT designs of their power supplies, then supposes there has been an update to their designs. But nowhere does the reviewer ever point out the fatal flaws, the redesigns, or any other fact.....just innuendo and FUD from a competitor....and using that FUD as fact.
That'd be akin to someone printing that whatthehey was a pedophile years ago but is much better now, or that whatthehey was previously unable to hold down a productive job because of rumors of drug use, but is now a drug-free recovering addict.
Just because someone says something, doesn't mean it's true, does it? In the case of this power supply review, AT has really opened themselves up to some critical looking at, maybe by a company that has its reputation called into question. It's called libel.....
I have edited the text slightly in this paragraph to better reflect the intended meaning. Acknowledging that competitors are bad-mouthing a design isn't the same thing as saying the competitors are telling the truth. While I'm sure you'd all love a conspiracy theory, Christoph didn't include that statement to make CWT look bad. (Libel? Please.)
If you look around, you can find information on the Internet that implies CWT is a terrible source for PSUs. Like many larger companies, they have certainly had some bad designs, but the current high-end offerings are very good. (Not so sure I'd say the same thing for many of the 300-450W CWT offerings, though....)
As an ODM, CWT makes PSUs according to the specifications they receive; if a company wants to use less expensive components in order to keep price down, they will comply. In fact, it's safe to say that if you take any basic PSU design and replace all the components with inexpensive, lower rated parts, efficiency and quality will quickly take a nosedive.
Has anything changed with the basic build of CWT PSUs? I couldn't say; I've never dismantled an older CWT unit or a new design. Christoph has, though, so if he wants to imply that some changes were made to improve quality, I'm willing to trust him. (I'd tell him to respond, but he's apparently traveling for the next couple of weeks.)
The reviewer makes a claim about design flaws (without stating what those are) and then assumes that the flaws must have been fixed. It's clear from that alone that he has no idea what these design flaws are supposed to be or he would have told us just what it is that's been fixed.
He's trying to market himself as having some kind of insight or inside info regarding CWT's "basic design" and fails at it.
You say they make a 1500-watt power supply? Does it have a three-phase plug, is it better than 90% efficient at full load, or are they simply assuming that nobody will ever use it at full load? US domestic circuits are usually rated at 15 amps, which means that at 110 volts, the line can only deliver 1650 watts.
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mttcrlsn - Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - link
When will people wise up that probably 90% do not need anything more than a good, correctly rated PSU. Even when I was doing SLI on an 8800GTS system I maxed out at about 500W. Processors were once space heaters and power hogs but that has done a 180 turn as people wanted computers to be better. Soon GPUs will be doing the same, storage is already getting more power efficient and memory is as well. This idea of marketing of uber high power supplies is going to end soon and may already be ending as the cost of energy heads to the sky. So as some companies continue to beat the dead horse others are now marketing power efficiency and quietness - who wants to work next to a 747 pushing out heat in their office?royalcrown - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - link
Amen to that ! As a side mote...it is good to see GPUs FINALLY getting off of the 90nm mode ! They also need to put the crap on the top side as hot air rises...duh, why do they keep putting the hot side towards the FLOOR ?!michal1980 - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
lets save you are on a 15 amp circuit.if you have perfect 120v power= 15ax120v = 1800wats. at 85% efficeny = 1530 watt power supply
it its 110 volts = 15x110 = 1650watts = 1402 watt power supply.
dont plug your monitor/speakers/ lights on that cirucit or your going to start blowing fuses.
royalcrown - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - link
it's not a wise idea to plug something in with 2 cords as you have risks if each cord is on a separate circuit, you risk having a voltage potential (greater charge on 1 side of the circuit) and that CAN be unsafe...strikeback03 - Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - link
I'll check when I get home, but I don't think anything in our house is less than a 20A breaker. And a 20A breaker won't typically trip till somewhere over 30A is drawn through it, so you still have some margin for more ridiculous power supplies.mttcrlsn - Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - link
Typical home wiring is 14 gauge with a 15amp max - NO EXCEPTIONS. In order for one to use a 20amp then the wire must be 12 gauge. This is the per the NEC. If it is a 120V 20A receptacle, one side will have a slot, the other will have a "T". As for getting 30A on a 20A breaker - I would get rid of that breaker as it is not rated correctly / is defective.HOOfan 1 - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
Like this one?http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
nubie - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
Well, I was wondering something similar, and that is why don't we run dedicated 220v to the PC in our houses here in the US?Even if we don't use all of the power, all of our devices will be running more efficiently. If you have a direct line to your PC already you can change the outlet and add a circuit breaker (that connects to the other bus-bar) for making 220v.
In reality, notice what they already said, they are running a clocked quad with lots of hard drives and tri-sli 8800 Ultra on a PC Power 860.
I agree with them, you can't load it more than 500w (idle?), even with an extreme system like that. You are really just spinning up all those hard drives and charging all those caps when you start the PC (SATA with delayed spin-up?).
I am still using my PC Power Silencer 470, and wondering why it isn't rated for SLi, clearly it can do it, and probably overclocked with a couple hard drives. If you take a second look at those PC-Power ads, they are telling the truth. Their components are industrial grade, and rated for high load + high temps. I don't mean to say that their competitors can't handle a load, but my Silencer has never ramped up, I never even hear it over my hard drive, and this is a pretty nice one from a Tivo2.
B3an - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
Dont know if it was mentioned in the article because i hardly read any, but from the pics, these PSU's look exactly like the Thermaltake ToughPower PSU's. I have a 1200w ToughPower and as far as i can see there is no difference between them.So WTF is going on? Same PSU but rebadged?
C'DaleRider - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
Both the Thermaltake ToughPower supply you have and the Xigmatek in this review are both rebadged CWT builds, which is why yours and this one look alike. Tt and Xigmatek are the rebadgers, CWT is the maker. It's just like Seasonic is the manufacturer of numerous other branded power supplies like Corsair's HX line and PC Power and Cooling's Silencer line. Open up a Seasonic, Corsair HX, and a PCP&C Silencer and you'll find, outside fan arrangement and heatsink choices for the fan arrangements, almost mirror image power supplies.HOOfan 1 - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
well read the article then. They state it is made by CWT...just like the Thermaltake Toughpower, the Xclio Greatpower, The Corsair HX1000, The Gigabyte Odins and several others.C'DaleRider - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
[quote]We have heard from other companies that the basic CWT design is practically unusable as there are too many flaws inherent in the design.[/quote]So, you've take some rumor, FUD, innuendo, whatever from one competitor about another without naming the source, investigating anything, pointing out the specific design flaws....yet print that "claim" as gospel?
Your credibility has just taken another nosedive. Or you've become nothing more than a paid mouthpiece for other companies....maybe like PCP&C, because that comment above sure does sound just like the FUD advertisements PCP&C ran back in 2003 against "unspecified" power supply sellers.
The ads were aimed at Antec even though the example PSU (PCP&C named the PSU as a "550W" but left the brand as a blank, but we all know who had a popular 550W back in 2003 when those ads were popping up in certain magazines) was clearly not a CWT build because they had an example unit shown with the case opened.
In fact, the PSU from that old ad looked like a Thermaltake 550W but with a unpainted casing rather than the black casing that Thermaltake used at that time. If you've got any Maximum PC mags from 2003 you can find easily the ads.
It always suspected that PC P&C was trying to point fingers at Antec and this review pretty much verifies that suspicions were correct in this guess. The sad thing is that if you take one of those CWT built Antecs and load and scope it, one will find that it was a competent unit with all the power it promised at better than 3% regulation and decent ripple. Had CWT not been hobbled with using the caps that Antec specifically asked for (Fuhjyyus), that particular build would be remembered very differently.
whatthehey - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
Seriously, shut the hell up and RTFA! They comment about some CWT builds having issues, but then they also point out that the overall performance of the latest CWT designs seems very good... as this review shows. I love how people get their pants in a bind over one little sentence/paragraph in an article."OMG, you talked about how people in the past said CWT sucks, but you're still reviewing them favorably! You're bought out by the competition AND by the company whose power supply you're reviewing! In fact, Intel and NVIDIA own you and pay for everything you write! I'm going to go read HardOCP instead, since they're only bought out by AMD!"
Give it a rest already. The only credibility taking a nosedive (again) is related to average reading comprehension and apparently already biased opinion. Hell, go back to reading Maximum PC and let the people that actually know hardware do their thing here.
C'DaleRider - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
I love people who comment about things they know nothing about.In reality, CWT has made no changes to their designs....not a single thing. Of course, you might know this if you managed to ever read previous reviews of CWT-built power supplies from a few years ago...but who are you to bother to read and get any facts, but instead attack and rant about something you know nothing about.
The fact of the matter is Anandtech, and this particular reviewer, chose to publish a condemnation of CWT designs of their power supplies, then supposes there has been an update to their designs. But nowhere does the reviewer ever point out the fatal flaws, the redesigns, or any other fact.....just innuendo and FUD from a competitor....and using that FUD as fact.
That'd be akin to someone printing that whatthehey was a pedophile years ago but is much better now, or that whatthehey was previously unable to hold down a productive job because of rumors of drug use, but is now a drug-free recovering addict.
Just because someone says something, doesn't mean it's true, does it? In the case of this power supply review, AT has really opened themselves up to some critical looking at, maybe by a company that has its reputation called into question. It's called libel.....
JarredWalton - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
Keep the flames elsewhere, people.I have edited the text slightly in this paragraph to better reflect the intended meaning. Acknowledging that competitors are bad-mouthing a design isn't the same thing as saying the competitors are telling the truth. While I'm sure you'd all love a conspiracy theory, Christoph didn't include that statement to make CWT look bad. (Libel? Please.)
If you look around, you can find information on the Internet that implies CWT is a terrible source for PSUs. Like many larger companies, they have certainly had some bad designs, but the current high-end offerings are very good. (Not so sure I'd say the same thing for many of the 300-450W CWT offerings, though....)
As an ODM, CWT makes PSUs according to the specifications they receive; if a company wants to use less expensive components in order to keep price down, they will comply. In fact, it's safe to say that if you take any basic PSU design and replace all the components with inexpensive, lower rated parts, efficiency and quality will quickly take a nosedive.
Has anything changed with the basic build of CWT PSUs? I couldn't say; I've never dismantled an older CWT unit or a new design. Christoph has, though, so if he wants to imply that some changes were made to improve quality, I'm willing to trust him. (I'd tell him to respond, but he's apparently traveling for the next couple of weeks.)
Kanchenjunga - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
The reviewer makes a claim about design flaws (without stating what those are) and then assumes that the flaws must have been fixed. It's clear from that alone that he has no idea what these design flaws are supposed to be or he would have told us just what it is that's been fixed.He's trying to market himself as having some kind of insight or inside info regarding CWT's "basic design" and fails at it.
HOOfan 1 - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
I was also a bit suprised at the opening line of the new OCZ ElitXstream"One look inside tells us what ODM is at the heart of the design, which dimmed our expectations a bit"
Why was that? Impervio has certainly have better quality in the recent past than OCZ's other OEM, FSP.
Carnildo - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
You say they make a 1500-watt power supply? Does it have a three-phase plug, is it better than 90% efficient at full load, or are they simply assuming that nobody will ever use it at full load? US domestic circuits are usually rated at 15 amps, which means that at 110 volts, the line can only deliver 1650 watts.Heidfirst - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
UK domestic circuits can handle over 3000 watts ...HOOfan 1 - Monday, April 14, 2008 - link
Who pray tell said that.Come come now, if those companies want to fling mud then at least their identities should be exposed
"Seems like someone is spreading FUD, possibly while high, PC Power and Cooling I'm looking at you"