So let me see if I understand this correctly, Nvidia will not be offering mobile drivers to the public but will make them available to the vendor who can validate them and then offer them to their customers on their web site? ie through Dell?
See above. There will still be official driver updates from the vendors after validation, presumably - or at least, they'll come as often as they have in the past. :)
The 174.20 drivers were directly from NVIDIA but they are still undergoing testing and validation. The plan was to hopefully have those available (well, an updated version that addresses a few things probably) within the next month. Note that the LaptopVideo2Go 174.xx drivers are not the same, as those are based off the desktop parts and lack mobile optimizations as far as I can see.
When they finally are on Nvidia's website, will they only work for 8800M GTX's or will they also work for 8800M GTS's? I have a P6831FX Gateway and would love some newer drivers. :)
My understanding is that the next "Mobile Driver Update" from NVIDIA will cover all GeForce M chips on Vista 32-bit/64-bit for participating vendors. So that means the Gateway FX, Toshiba X205, Dell XPS, and various Clevo notebooks should all work with the beta driver. Probably some others as well. I *hope* that they get GeForce Go support on Vista as well with the next driver, and likewise I would appreciate seeing new XP drivers for both Go and M series cards.
No, the "Mobile Gaming Drivers" or whatever you want to call it are going to be available from NVIDIA. The last release came just before 8800M launched, so it only supports up through the 8700M. They also didn't cover all GPUs on all OSes - so 8400-8700M got Vista drivers and GeForce Go 7xxx got XP drivers.
The laptop vendors do have to agree to participate - so Dell pretty much tells NVIDIA it's okay if they release a driver that will work with the XPS laptops, as an example. Note that this is not just a vendor decision; it's a model decision as well. So while Dell is okay with "beta" drivers direct from NVIDIA for their XPS (gaming) laptops, they don't want beta drivers for Inspiron or Latitude laptops.
Normally, notebook vendors do not allow manufacturers to release "reference" updated drivers that support the mobile chipsets, which is why we see stuff like LaptopVideo2Go.com. Well, this is a step back from that stance, but only for laptops where updated video drivers are a major concern. Thus, the vendors still have to give NVIDIA permission to release the drivers to the public. Make sense?
Great article. Kind of curious about the casing in the pictures. The latest version from Clevo for systems with X9000 processors has a slightly different casing, labled "Extreme Edition", with an additional molded section on the bottom to provide for better ventilation around the CPU. Wonder if AVA is shipping old case versions?
Thanks for the comments. I've had this system for about a month, and it's pre-release. It could be that the final shipping models will cool the CPU better, have a working overclock for X9000, and not be as loud at idle. I can only hope so.
With these high end laptops (it gets more FPS than my desktop on gaming!), i can only imagine that the components are heating up pretty good inside such a small package.
Every desktop computer I've had failed on me sooner or later (not hard drive related). So how long are these laptops expected to last?
I am an AVID gamer with the Dell XPS M170 that I bought 2 1/2 years ago and I have had very few problems playing ANY games with the old stock drivers. Yes, I have tried the laptopvideo2go drivers a few times and A) I saw almost no performance increase and B) I had many more problems in games, not to mention the loss of the Powerplay function (I do use this monster on the road at times).
My XPS M170 (with Go 7800GTX) uses an almost 2-year-old graphic driver from June of 2006, yet I have played CS Source, RS3:RS, COD2, COD4, Joint Ops, FEAR, BF2, BF2142, C&C Generals, WIC, Dawn of War, GTA:SA, Bioshock, Crysis (tried at least :P), etc. without almost no problems. In fact, I am staring at my shelf full of games and I cannot see a single game that didn't play just fine on my XPS with those "crappy" old stock drivers.
Exactly what games do you have problems with? I'd like to know.
Also, one thing gaming laptops need badly IMO is either the ability to move the LCD horizontally on an axis or a keyboard that can be tilted left-right/forward-back on an axis (so I can angle the keys like a split keyboard). I use a normal keyboard at an ~45 degree angle to my left hand/arm when playing games, which is MUCH more natural to the human anatomy, but playing games with my arm straight on to a laptop keyboard has practically given me carpal tunnel. That is my only complaint.
Anyway, gaming laptops RULE. I can easily bring my gaming to work, plug into the corporate network and play LAN or MP games with my co-workers (afterhours of course). Then I simply pack it up and can do the same thing at home. Let's see someone with a monster case (Antec 900-ish) and a huge LCD do that! :P
Now, I just need to win the lottery and get one of those Alienware M15x rigs :-)
Well done. Lots of things that are bothering us gaming notebook owners and future customers of more include, drivers, screens, performance and power issues.
Owning a 1710 the driver issue has been frustrating (liveable with laptopvideo2go.com) to say the least. I don't understand how a vendor can be so short sighted. If you frustrate the current owner, how likely are they to come back? We all know the prices of these things are in a class to themselves. And we already know we are making tradeoffs, some of which are severe enough, but are technology based. To then fail to have regular driver updates is a slap in the face, and I've seen more folks comment in the forums that this is the last gaming laptop they'll buy based on this. It's a premium product, but they don't support it like one.
It's nice to see this change, but it really should be a night and day change not a "we'll work on it" or "we can give you beta drivers, how's that?". How'd you like to go buy a Lexus and get told that they'd be happy to charge you a Lexus price but they can't repair them so at the first breakdown, you buy a new car?
Every time Dell comes out with a new laptop they offer new drivers. And much the same goes for Nvidia and the new 8800M. That's why the "beta drivers" are available only in Vista for 8 series and only XP for 7 series. They are just trying to fool the users into thinking they'll be supported by showing they have the latest drivers now. To be fair, Nvidia must know this is a problem and even Dell aren't total fools. But for me, before I'm going to shell out more $ for that fancy new mobile quad core and 1740, I'm going to want to see some very serious and regular driver updates. Once a quarter had better happen and it better be the minimum. Serious bugs should be fixed in weeks. Your not selling the mobile gpu's at some discount to the desktop ones, quite the opposite.
Have 3 year warranty? How about returning a laptop because it won't run a game? That might get their attention. Class action suits have won on less ground.
Overall it's a great article on a segment that could be even more booming. There are so many "burned" old users that it's difficult to grow when so many current owners report their experience. But that can and probably will change. Your article hits tons of the issues on scaling, cpu performance, even the OS. Might have been nice to throw in a 8800 gtx desktop reference line just to keep buyers aware of what they face.
I bought an SLI Alienware m9750, and I love the laptop to death, but I have the same driver issue as well. The drivers Alienware shipped with the laptop could not run Crysis, a game Alienware was demoing on the same laptop all over their website. Which was, in my view, rather false advertising.
However, given the recent news with Epic coming out and saying "computers are not for gaming, not good for gaming" and companies ditching out on the PC industry, it becomes more and more difficult to justify the cost of a $3,000+ gaming laptop.
And it still comes down to the fact that companies claim upgradability in laptops via MXM graphics components, yet still fail to provide said components. My m9750, despite promises, can not be upgraded.
Laptop gaming is definitely awesome, but highly flawed given the entry costs.
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docjon - Monday, March 17, 2008 - link
So let me see if I understand this correctly, Nvidia will not be offering mobile drivers to the public but will make them available to the vendor who can validate them and then offer them to their customers on their web site? ie through Dell?JarredWalton - Monday, March 17, 2008 - link
See above. There will still be official driver updates from the vendors after validation, presumably - or at least, they'll come as often as they have in the past. :)docjon - Saturday, March 15, 2008 - link
Jared,How about a link to the beta drivers? I checked the nvidia web site and can't find the 174.20 drivers you used.
JarredWalton - Saturday, March 15, 2008 - link
The 174.20 drivers were directly from NVIDIA but they are still undergoing testing and validation. The plan was to hopefully have those available (well, an updated version that addresses a few things probably) within the next month. Note that the LaptopVideo2Go 174.xx drivers are not the same, as those are based off the desktop parts and lack mobile optimizations as far as I can see.ap90033 - Saturday, March 15, 2008 - link
When they finally are on Nvidia's website, will they only work for 8800M GTX's or will they also work for 8800M GTS's? I have a P6831FX Gateway and would love some newer drivers. :)JarredWalton - Saturday, March 15, 2008 - link
My understanding is that the next "Mobile Driver Update" from NVIDIA will cover all GeForce M chips on Vista 32-bit/64-bit for participating vendors. So that means the Gateway FX, Toshiba X205, Dell XPS, and various Clevo notebooks should all work with the beta driver. Probably some others as well. I *hope* that they get GeForce Go support on Vista as well with the next driver, and likewise I would appreciate seeing new XP drivers for both Go and M series cards.docjon - Monday, March 17, 2008 - link
So these drivers will not be offered by nvidia to the general public but will be made available to dell to offer after they validate them?JarredWalton - Monday, March 17, 2008 - link
No, the "Mobile Gaming Drivers" or whatever you want to call it are going to be available from NVIDIA. The last release came just before 8800M launched, so it only supports up through the 8700M. They also didn't cover all GPUs on all OSes - so 8400-8700M got Vista drivers and GeForce Go 7xxx got XP drivers.The laptop vendors do have to agree to participate - so Dell pretty much tells NVIDIA it's okay if they release a driver that will work with the XPS laptops, as an example. Note that this is not just a vendor decision; it's a model decision as well. So while Dell is okay with "beta" drivers direct from NVIDIA for their XPS (gaming) laptops, they don't want beta drivers for Inspiron or Latitude laptops.
Normally, notebook vendors do not allow manufacturers to release "reference" updated drivers that support the mobile chipsets, which is why we see stuff like LaptopVideo2Go.com. Well, this is a step back from that stance, but only for laptops where updated video drivers are a major concern. Thus, the vendors still have to give NVIDIA permission to release the drivers to the public. Make sense?
builtone2many - Friday, March 14, 2008 - link
Great article. Kind of curious about the casing in the pictures. The latest version from Clevo for systems with X9000 processors has a slightly different casing, labled "Extreme Edition", with an additional molded section on the bottom to provide for better ventilation around the CPU. Wonder if AVA is shipping old case versions?JarredWalton - Saturday, March 15, 2008 - link
Thanks for the comments. I've had this system for about a month, and it's pre-release. It could be that the final shipping models will cool the CPU better, have a working overclock for X9000, and not be as loud at idle. I can only hope so.feelingshorter - Friday, March 14, 2008 - link
With these high end laptops (it gets more FPS than my desktop on gaming!), i can only imagine that the components are heating up pretty good inside such a small package.Every desktop computer I've had failed on me sooner or later (not hard drive related). So how long are these laptops expected to last?
Donkey2008 - Friday, March 14, 2008 - link
I am an AVID gamer with the Dell XPS M170 that I bought 2 1/2 years ago and I have had very few problems playing ANY games with the old stock drivers. Yes, I have tried the laptopvideo2go drivers a few times and A) I saw almost no performance increase and B) I had many more problems in games, not to mention the loss of the Powerplay function (I do use this monster on the road at times).My XPS M170 (with Go 7800GTX) uses an almost 2-year-old graphic driver from June of 2006, yet I have played CS Source, RS3:RS, COD2, COD4, Joint Ops, FEAR, BF2, BF2142, C&C Generals, WIC, Dawn of War, GTA:SA, Bioshock, Crysis (tried at least :P), etc. without almost no problems. In fact, I am staring at my shelf full of games and I cannot see a single game that didn't play just fine on my XPS with those "crappy" old stock drivers.
Exactly what games do you have problems with? I'd like to know.
Also, one thing gaming laptops need badly IMO is either the ability to move the LCD horizontally on an axis or a keyboard that can be tilted left-right/forward-back on an axis (so I can angle the keys like a split keyboard). I use a normal keyboard at an ~45 degree angle to my left hand/arm when playing games, which is MUCH more natural to the human anatomy, but playing games with my arm straight on to a laptop keyboard has practically given me carpal tunnel. That is my only complaint.
Anyway, gaming laptops RULE. I can easily bring my gaming to work, plug into the corporate network and play LAN or MP games with my co-workers (afterhours of course). Then I simply pack it up and can do the same thing at home. Let's see someone with a monster case (Antec 900-ish) and a huge LCD do that! :P
Now, I just need to win the lottery and get one of those Alienware M15x rigs :-)
FXi - Friday, March 14, 2008 - link
Well done. Lots of things that are bothering us gaming notebook owners and future customers of more include, drivers, screens, performance and power issues.Owning a 1710 the driver issue has been frustrating (liveable with laptopvideo2go.com) to say the least. I don't understand how a vendor can be so short sighted. If you frustrate the current owner, how likely are they to come back? We all know the prices of these things are in a class to themselves. And we already know we are making tradeoffs, some of which are severe enough, but are technology based. To then fail to have regular driver updates is a slap in the face, and I've seen more folks comment in the forums that this is the last gaming laptop they'll buy based on this. It's a premium product, but they don't support it like one.
It's nice to see this change, but it really should be a night and day change not a "we'll work on it" or "we can give you beta drivers, how's that?". How'd you like to go buy a Lexus and get told that they'd be happy to charge you a Lexus price but they can't repair them so at the first breakdown, you buy a new car?
Every time Dell comes out with a new laptop they offer new drivers. And much the same goes for Nvidia and the new 8800M. That's why the "beta drivers" are available only in Vista for 8 series and only XP for 7 series. They are just trying to fool the users into thinking they'll be supported by showing they have the latest drivers now. To be fair, Nvidia must know this is a problem and even Dell aren't total fools. But for me, before I'm going to shell out more $ for that fancy new mobile quad core and 1740, I'm going to want to see some very serious and regular driver updates. Once a quarter had better happen and it better be the minimum. Serious bugs should be fixed in weeks. Your not selling the mobile gpu's at some discount to the desktop ones, quite the opposite.
Have 3 year warranty? How about returning a laptop because it won't run a game? That might get their attention. Class action suits have won on less ground.
Overall it's a great article on a segment that could be even more booming. There are so many "burned" old users that it's difficult to grow when so many current owners report their experience. But that can and probably will change. Your article hits tons of the issues on scaling, cpu performance, even the OS. Might have been nice to throw in a 8800 gtx desktop reference line just to keep buyers aware of what they face.
Overall great, great job.
Inkjammer - Friday, March 14, 2008 - link
I really agree with you.I bought an SLI Alienware m9750, and I love the laptop to death, but I have the same driver issue as well. The drivers Alienware shipped with the laptop could not run Crysis, a game Alienware was demoing on the same laptop all over their website. Which was, in my view, rather false advertising.
However, given the recent news with Epic coming out and saying "computers are not for gaming, not good for gaming" and companies ditching out on the PC industry, it becomes more and more difficult to justify the cost of a $3,000+ gaming laptop.
And it still comes down to the fact that companies claim upgradability in laptops via MXM graphics components, yet still fail to provide said components. My m9750, despite promises, can not be upgraded.
Laptop gaming is definitely awesome, but highly flawed given the entry costs.