As usual, we get a lot of specifications lifted from the camera's brochure, and a lot of images of the camera, but not a single photo taken with the camera. This is like reviewing Doom 4 by posting pictures of the box and DVD instead of screenshots from the game...
Does the K20D have any special provision for cleaning the CMOS? A friend of mine with the Canon IDs Mark II (approximately same megapixel count as the K20D, though with a full-screen CMOS) complains how time-consuming it is to clean the CMOS on the camera, which becomes increasingly important as image quality increases. Canon has now implemented a "shake" function to clean the CMOS on the MK III version of the IDs, which represents a real time-saver. Does the K20D have a similar function?
First of all, it has a "sensor shake," as do many newer camera (my K10D has this, too). Second, it has an anti-static coating over the lowpass, which does quite a bit of good. Finally, it has sticky spots around the mirror box to catch dust as it is shaken off--not sure how effective it all is, but I've yet to have a single dust spot on my K10D in three months of owning it. Of course, welded dust still needs to be wet cleaned.
Sensor shake is ideally suited to the Pentaxes because their sensors are positioned magnetically for the in-body shake reduction. I think my K20D shakes its sensor even more violently than K10Ds I've tried.
In case manual cleaning is still necessary, there is a new feature on the K20D showing an image of the sensor with a representation of the surrounding mount as you see it when cleaning, the sensor showing black spots for dust on a white background. The dust map is also saved to a separate folder on the SD card.
The 17-55IS is NOT $1300. It's about $800, which is in line with the price of the 16-50 Pentax and Oly 12-60. It is not built as well as either, nor is it weather sealed.
It is, however, much better optically than the Pentax 16-50 and as good or better than the Oly.
That said, the K20 looks like a great camera for the price, especially for landscape and portrait work.
We went deeper than a cursory check of lens prices for this reply. Amazon.com is normally competitive with the the best legitimate price for lenses, and they are now $1100 for the 17-55mm IS. We also checked B&H which is currently $999. BTW B&H sells the Pentax for $699 and Amazon sells the Pentax for $679. With those prices we have changed the price for the Canon lens in our review to $1000.
Since reviews of the Olympus 12-60mm have proclaimed it the lowest distortion zoom of its type ever tested your conclusion that the Canon is better optically sounds like wishful thinking. The Pentax lens is extremely sharp but it does have more distortion than the 17-55mm Canon, however, so we would likely accept your claim that the 17-55mm IS Canon is better optically. As you point out, though, it is not weather-sealed or built as well as the Pentax or Olympus lenses.
This Megapixel race in dSLR's is concerning me. This isn't a numbers game but a image quality issue.
Please show some 100% crops of this Pentax verses the 40d and some other C sized sensor cameras. Please use prime lenses at F/8 to try and minimize lens variation effects.
Let's see how good this camera is on a per pixel basis.
I would disagree, pisel peeping does not help much.
It's the final print that matters, so you need to select a target print size and use the same printing technology and equipment for all contenders, then you can compare.
The megapixel race is a bit meh if it is not coupled with NR and dynamic range improvements to utilise the new resolution to the fullest.
I am not a pixel peeper. Great photography is about composition, light, shadow, and conveying emotion to the viewer. It's not about technology.
But this camera review is about technology. I would like to see full scale comparisions as well but unless we look on a per pixel basis we don't know if the increases in sensor technology is keeping up with the mad race to advertise more pixels.
My money is hard earned and I'd like to see the pixels.
Plus I'm quite sure doing a comparision at equal size prints will show virually no difference until print sizes are large enough to start to discern pixels anyway. Then we'd be pixel peeping again!
The point of higher pixel count is increases resolution at higher print sizes right? So let's get to it and see at per pixel? I'm willing to be objective but I'd like to see both tests.
First let me give praise for covering aspects of this camera that few reviews bother taking.
I did go to the japanese pentax website some time ago where they have absolutely stunning webpages for the K20D, but in Japanese. So with the funky google translation, I was able to get a bit of an idea on the new camera before it showed up in shops. I thought it was a mistranslation regarding this illustration function - it sounds really interesting. Please do show an image or two in your upcoming review... and thanks for bringing up the topic.
Not a big deal, but the 10d used a pentaprism viewfinder instead of the more common pentamirror setup, and the viewfinder could be removed to use interchangeable focus screens.
In fact, if you bought the Katz Eye one, you can switch it to the new K20D without any problem. Pentax does have my vote in backward compatibility department.
I wouldn't usually clutter up a forum with a "thank you" post, but your reply deserves an exception.
The Katz Eye Focusing Screen you directed me to is exactly what I had hoped to find. OK, I'm a dinosaur, but I still prefer to focus manually as on my antediluvian Nikon. For those readers that have never seen what manual focus is supposed to look like on an SLR, the Katz screens have both the central split prism and a surrounding microprism ring.
I said in my original post that the ability to swap out the focusing screen on the k20d was not a big deal, but now it's a very big deal for me. I just hope I can get a decent price on my XTi now that the XSi has been announced.
Yes the K20D continues to use a real pentaprism and it does feature interchangeable focusing screens. The lower-end K200D will use a pentamirror like the Sony A350/A300/A200, Canon XSi/XTi, and Canon D60/D40x/D40
I still don't get why camera makers insist on increasing megapixel count on prosumer cameras. This makes little difference when printing at low iso and at high iso just makes things worse. The sensor made by Samsung look interesting, if only they did not increase the resolution.
also does the K20 display iso setting in the viewfinder?
I remember when 1 megapixel was touted as all one could ever want or use in a digital camera :) Pentax claims that the 14.6 megapixel resolution matches the resolution of 35mm film. Others might claim 35mm film resolution is a bit higher than this. I really don't think the resolution wars will ever be over, but like reducing manufacturing traces in computer CPUs each improvement in speed introduces a new set of problems to be resolved.
The resolution wars are slowing a bit right now as we do approach 35mm resolution, but anyone who shoots medium format or view cameras knows there is much more resolution beyond 35mm film. It will be great when we can shoot those higher resolutions with a small digital camera. Of course hitting the 35mm film resolution range is also hitting the resolving limit of most current lenses, so future lenses will require even better optics.
We have already seen that the develpoing move to full-frame by Sony, Nikon, Canon is requiring the best optics available as average lenses are obviously inferior on those bigger, higher-resolution sensors. Future resolution increases will likely require an optics quality revolution to have much relevance.
35mm film is actually about 10MP. Maybe a little less for lower quality films.
The motion picture film libraries have been scanning at the maximum discernible resolution for a while to create digital masters of the movie archives. They are scanning at 4K resolutions which is the equivalent image of about 10MP. You can shoot at higher resolutions but eventually all you are doing is just magnifying the image and requiring more and more light for proper exposure. I am not actually sure what human vision translates into megapixels.
Personally, I am happy with 6MP, but very unhappy with the current Dynamic range capabilities of ALL cameras. From what I have read, the human eye has a static contrast ratio of 100:1(about 6.5 stops), but a dynamic contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 (about 20 stops). All this is what I have read from wikipedia, but I have read other 'articles' that have claimed similarly.
I completely agree that the biggest challenge in today's digital cameras is dynamic range. Another reader chided me for not spending some time talking about the dynamic range expansion feature on the K20D that allows expansion at the top and bottom of the dynamic range. We will try to cover this in the full review.
I could also agree with you about the limitations of film dynamic range, except that I find digital imaging is still far more limited in dyanamic range than film. When it reaches film level I can expand my complaints.
"This is a somewhat controversial question, and there are many possible answers. Film is an analog medium, so it doesn't have "pixels" per se, though film scanners have pixels and a specific resolution.
Today the one thing most people agree on is that it's a more than any current consumer digital camera. The debate is about how much resolution the digitals will have to reach to start matching the film.
The very short answer is that there are around 20 million "quality" pixels in a top-quality 35mm shot. That's a shot with a tripod, mirror-up, with a top-rate lens and the finest-grained film, in decent light. 12 million are more typical for "good" shots. There may be as few as 4 million "quality" pixels in a handheld shot with a point-and-shoot camera or camera with a poor lens. And of course if focus is poor, or light is poor, or the camera was not held steady, the number will drop down below the 1-2 million pixels of the modern consumer digicam. Of course, one can have a bad shot with a digital camera too, not using all its resolving ability. However, few pick their gear with the plan of shooting badly.
The eye, however, is not as discerning when looking at a picture in the usual context as it can be when looking at things blown up. So many can also argue that a shot of around 9 million pixels would look as good to the eye as a 35mm shot, except when blown up very large and looked at quite closely."
www.clarkvision.com measured all formats and found 35mm Fujichrome Velvia required 10 megapixels to accurately portray color intensity but 16 megapixels to accurately portray color detail. Black & White Tech Pan required 16 megapixels to accurately convery the same information on a digital sensor.
It is very interesting that Medium format (6x4.5mm) required a sensor resolution of 31 megapixels to 52 megapixels to convey the same information as Velvias on a medium format camera. Large format 8x10 view format required an amazing 600 to 960 megapixels to covey the same info.
It appears there are many opinions as to the true digital "equivalent" to 35mm resolution. The Pentax figure of 14.6 megapixels seems like a pretty good value in the ranges I have seen for 35mm film. However the equivalent resolution required for Medium Format and 8x10 View should amply show we have a long way to potentially go in sensor resolution.
Thanks for the info. While the maximum resolution you quote from various websites is at around 16megapixels for film cameras (at iso50-100 it should be note) the sensor on the K20D as you well know is not 35mm. In any case for general purposes photography, you really don't need all that resolution (inc. landscapes). With film you also needed to deal with grain when enlarging, which is absent with all modern digital cameras. But camera makers need to sell cameras and increasing resolution is a sure fire way to do so.
And you will never match medium/large formats in terms of resolution on an APS-c sensor as you are diffraction limited. Which makes increases in resolution even more useless.
But the most important, an you pointed this out very well, is that the new Pentax K20d is a joy to use. now if only I can justify to my wife why i need another camera!!!
ISO is displayed in the Viewfinder when you select the Sensitivity (Sv) program. In this mode the ISO is underlined and you can adjust the ISO in half-steps (100, 140, 200, 280, 400, 560, 800, 1100, 1600, 2200, 3200, 4500, 6400) using the rear dial and see the changes in ISO in the viewfinder. As in other shift modes the ISO value blinks if an ISO you select is out of range for a correct exposure with the lens you are using.
Hyper Program was first released in the Pentax Z1 in 1991. It consists of 2 dials and a green button, Front dial is Tv, rear dial is Av and the green button resets to the Program line. Turn either wheel at any time and you will change priority. The next element of HyP is the Program line its self, you have four options to choose from, Normal P, Hi P, Depth P and MTF P. Normal is as it says, while Hi is biased towards high shutter speeds, Depth is biased towards large DoF and MTF is biased towards the Lenses best aperture. (All Pentax Lens Designs are MTF tested and the data is encoded into the Lens, while FA* and DA*s are individually tested as are the FA and DA LTDs). I haven't used the Minolta system but nothing from Nikon or Canon quiet compares with HyP from Pentax.
I understand the latter part of that explanation to be very different from what I am familiar with from Nikon(and pretty neat too).
Other than that, it appears the shifting priority is pretty convenient, using either dial.
Sensitivity Priority however, sounds exactly, 100% identical to what my Nikon does on Program Auto with a fixed ISO. You select an ISO value (check). You point the camera at on object. The camera picks what it considers to be the best aperture & shutter settings to maintain that ISO (check).
You can even then roll the main command dial to roll through different combinations of shutter speed and aperture which give the same exposure (which is a less simple version of those four program modes you describe, I don't know what 'biases' it works through there).
As far as I'm aware, most manufacturers offers variants of this. Shooting program auto, shutter priority, aperture priority, and full manual with my D80 I've a choice of locking the ISO, or allowing the camera to vary it.
Program auto lets the camera do everything, and rotating the main command dial in this mode lets you choose between different aperture/shutter combinations that produce the same exposure. On shutter priority, the camera controls the aperture, and vice versa for aperture priority. Finally on full auto you control the shutter & aperture (using the front & main command dials).
In Pentax Program mode the front dial adjusts shutter speed and the rear dial adjusts aperture. When you click either dial the corresonding value you are adjusting is underlined in the viewfinder. Hyperprogram shifts the corresonding value to keep the same exposure, and it blinks if you select a value outside the exposure range. the shifted value survives an auto LED shutoff and remains underlined so you can instantly see what you shifted. You can turn off the shift and return to regular program mode by hitting the green dot button next to the shutter release and front dial.
Most other companies now have some variation of this feature but the Pentax implementation is still the most logical, most complete, and easiest to use in my opinion.
I have to admit having read through the posts I don't see what is so much simpler about other manufacturers - on the Olympus E-3 when in program mode you turn the front dial and it switches to shutter priority (the display changes to Ps to show you've changed it). Alternatively if you want aperture priority you turn the rear dial, it won't let you underexpose (without using EV compensation) but that seems reasonable.
However I think Panasonic have by far the simplest implementation on their L1 - it has a dedicated shutter dial and aperture dial (on Panasonic lenses), by default the aperture and shutter dials sit at 'A' which is full automatic control, the camera chooses both. If you want to choose shutter priority you just turn the shutter dial and the camera will work out an aperture for you. If you want aperture priority you turn the dial and choose an aperture, the camera will work out shutter speed if that's still on A. If you want full manual control just choose both an aperture and shutter value. Any time you want to switch back to automatic on either aspect you just turn the dial back, aside from being simple there's the obvious benefit that even with the camera powered down you can see what aperture/shutter is set to and also change it without switching the camera on.
Hey finaly an SLR review on anandtech I can agree with.
BUT you left out THE big feature of K20D - dynamic range manipulation. You can move the dynamic range in one or both directions on the K20D.
f.e. the camera will shoot the shadows at 200iso while highlights are shot at 100iso ... like a real time HDR option.
I saw comparison photos of this in a magazine and that was a WOW moment (unlike Windows Vista :-)). finaly one revolutionary feature and long needed in the DSLR technology.
We were also impressed with the dynamic range expansion options on the K20D, and we will be covering this in more detail in the full review. Most other manufacturers in prosumer space have similar capabilities under differnt names, but the flexibility of the Pentax variant will definitley be examined in the full review.
It's always good to see companies push the technology envelope, because other brands will be forced to follow suit and in the end, the consumers benefit. From a practical point, however, this Pentax release would probably not be as big an industry splash as, say, a Canon 50D with 14.6 mpixels, given the market for each brand. But it sure paves the way for a brighter tech future for all photographers.
Tokina is the T in THK (Tokina Hoya Kenko) and has recently developed several lenses with Pentax. These Tokina lenses are offered in mounts other than Pentax so as not to compete with thier own brand. However, as you point out, SDM is not a feature of these Tokina lenses.
quote: The lone exception is the announced Sony A350, which will sport a 14.2 MP CCD sensor.
at least in my part of the world the A350 has been shipping for a week or so.
quote: Whenever a recent Pentax is in our hands, we are again reminded of the usefulness of Hyperprogram, where you can instantly shift the aperture or shutter speed (front and rear dials) with the camera shifting other program parameters
this sounds very similar to what is available on Minolta/Sony & I just always presumed that all other camera manufacturers had similar?
The Sony A350 has not yet shipped in the US market. It is not even available direct from Sony, who says it will be available March 24th. Amazon is showing the A350 will be released April 25th. The new Sony A200, announced at CES, has been available in the US for several weeks.
The HypP mode is different from the program shift that you can find on other manufacturer's models.
In HypP mode, when you select an aperture, you're effectively going to Av mode, meaning that the camera will keep the selected value for all subsequent shots and adapt the shutter speed.
Same goes for selecting a shutter speed that gets you in Tv mode.
Each time, the selected parameter is underlined in the VF so that you always know which parameter is dominant.
If at some point you decide you want to hand control back to the camera (ie switch back to P mode), you just have to press the green button.
I appreciate that, but what you've both described is what happens in A & S Priority for Nikon (*screams*).
In A priority, you select an aperture, and the camera picks the shutter speed. The aperture does not change until you change it (ewven if you turn the camera off. You know Aperture is dominant because you've turned a dial to set 'A' for aperture priority.
Vice versa for shutter priority.
All HyP appears to do is allow you to go directly into A or S (and effectively full manual if you do both), without turning a dial.
You do however need to press a button to go back to full P. So it saves you that initial click. But it does sound pretty handy, and easy to use.
Unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious, in which case I sincerely apologise for wasting your time :o
Yes, the only thing the HyP mode allows you to do is switch between P, Tv or Av without having to stop shooting to switch some dial.
It may look like a small subtlety but I can assure you it just makes the photographer's life easier.
It's instantaneous and the camera just doesn't get in your way when faced with changing conditions and that's what's interesting about it.
I use both Pentax and Canon systems and still cannot understand why Pentax are the only one to implement such things as HyP (or even better: HyM mode) or to allow the user to set the ISO directly with some dial and use one button press to go to auto ISO.... these are just things that make you forget about the camera while shooting and being able to control everything without ever leaving the VF from the eye.
The 'philosophy" is rather simple IMO: give the photographer a way to adjust any shooting parameter (shutter speed, aperture or ISO) when he wants it and without having to bother about pressing a dedicated button or changing a mode dial.
I suspect that Pentax aren't the only ones to give that functionality but probably are the only ones to do so in that exact way.
Minolta (now Sony of course) were always thought of as cameras designed by photographers for photographers (Canon are designed by engineers for marketing :P) - I suspect that theirs & Pentax design ethos are very similar.
Pentax & Minolta/Sony (& probably others) have full A & S priority modes as well though.
Going by a later, fuller description of HyperProgramme it does seem to have slightly more than Minolta/Sony's implementation although I would argue that at least some of that secondary ability is covered by user ability/knowledge (I assume that most users of that level of camera have some experience & appreciation of the effects of aperture & shutter) as I'm sure that you would with Nikon.
On my A700 I have Auto, Programme (3 versions), assorted scenes modes (which I suspect also largely covers the secondary abilities of Hyperprogramme), aperture priority, shutter priority, 3 memory settings & of course full manual - a bit of overkill imo.
It's not surprising that I see more people eschewing automation & going back to doing more manually.
The K20D also has Sv (sensitivity), Tv (shutter), and Av (Aperture) Prioriy programs. Theres is also a very interesting and unique Mode called the TAv (time & aperture priority). In TAv mode shutter speed (time) and aperture are fixed and only the ISO is automatically adjusted for the proper exposure. The camera adjusted ISO is displayed in the viewfinder and blinks if the exposure is out of range. Shutter can be adjusted with the front dial and aperture with the rear dial.
There are some situations where you might require a certain aperture for depth of field and at least a certain shutter speed to prevent blur and that is where the TAv mode could be very useful. As far as I know the K20D and K10D are the only SLR cameras with anything like the TAv Program.
Minolta/Sony seems very similar - you actually have 3 Programme modes (as well as full Auto) incl. Pa & Ps where the camera will remember the adjusted setting for future shots & vary the other to compensate as the lighting changes.
Most manufacturers do have variants of the hyperprogram feature and I've used almost all of them. However this Pentax feature is still one of the easiest to use and most flexible when you add the unique Sensitivity Priority program.
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Tridion - Sunday, March 23, 2008 - link
Here is also some high iso images:http://highiso.net/images.php?Sort=isospeedratings...">http://highiso.net/images.php?Sort=isospeedratings...
Justin Case - Sunday, March 16, 2008 - link
As usual, we get a lot of specifications lifted from the camera's brochure, and a lot of images of the camera, but not a single photo taken with the camera. This is like reviewing Doom 4 by posting pictures of the box and DVD instead of screenshots from the game...shira - Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - link
Does the K20D have any special provision for cleaning the CMOS? A friend of mine with the Canon IDs Mark II (approximately same megapixel count as the K20D, though with a full-screen CMOS) complains how time-consuming it is to clean the CMOS on the camera, which becomes increasingly important as image quality increases. Canon has now implemented a "shake" function to clean the CMOS on the MK III version of the IDs, which represents a real time-saver. Does the K20D have a similar function?benplaut - Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - link
First of all, it has a "sensor shake," as do many newer camera (my K10D has this, too). Second, it has an anti-static coating over the lowpass, which does quite a bit of good. Finally, it has sticky spots around the mirror box to catch dust as it is shaken off--not sure how effective it all is, but I've yet to have a single dust spot on my K10D in three months of owning it. Of course, welded dust still needs to be wet cleaned.Kiwaiti - Friday, March 14, 2008 - link
Sensor shake is ideally suited to the Pentaxes because their sensors are positioned magnetically for the in-body shake reduction. I think my K20D shakes its sensor even more violently than K10Ds I've tried.In case manual cleaning is still necessary, there is a new feature on the K20D showing an image of the sensor with a representation of the surrounding mount as you see it when cleaning, the sensor showing black spots for dust on a white background. The dust map is also saved to a separate folder on the SD card.
gar655 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
The 17-55IS is NOT $1300. It's about $800, which is in line with the price of the 16-50 Pentax and Oly 12-60. It is not built as well as either, nor is it weather sealed.It is, however, much better optically than the Pentax 16-50 and as good or better than the Oly.
That said, the K20 looks like a great camera for the price, especially for landscape and portrait work.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
We went deeper than a cursory check of lens prices for this reply. Amazon.com is normally competitive with the the best legitimate price for lenses, and they are now $1100 for the 17-55mm IS. We also checked B&H which is currently $999. BTW B&H sells the Pentax for $699 and Amazon sells the Pentax for $679. With those prices we have changed the price for the Canon lens in our review to $1000.Since reviews of the Olympus 12-60mm have proclaimed it the lowest distortion zoom of its type ever tested your conclusion that the Canon is better optically sounds like wishful thinking. The Pentax lens is extremely sharp but it does have more distortion than the 17-55mm Canon, however, so we would likely accept your claim that the 17-55mm IS Canon is better optically. As you point out, though, it is not weather-sealed or built as well as the Pentax or Olympus lenses.
Hulk - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
This Megapixel race in dSLR's is concerning me. This isn't a numbers game but a image quality issue.Please show some 100% crops of this Pentax verses the 40d and some other C sized sensor cameras. Please use prime lenses at F/8 to try and minimize lens variation effects.
Let's see how good this camera is on a per pixel basis.
haplo602 - Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - link
I would disagree, pisel peeping does not help much.It's the final print that matters, so you need to select a target print size and use the same printing technology and equipment for all contenders, then you can compare.
The megapixel race is a bit meh if it is not coupled with NR and dynamic range improvements to utilise the new resolution to the fullest.
Hulk - Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - link
I am not a pixel peeper. Great photography is about composition, light, shadow, and conveying emotion to the viewer. It's not about technology.But this camera review is about technology. I would like to see full scale comparisions as well but unless we look on a per pixel basis we don't know if the increases in sensor technology is keeping up with the mad race to advertise more pixels.
My money is hard earned and I'd like to see the pixels.
Plus I'm quite sure doing a comparision at equal size prints will show virually no difference until print sizes are large enough to start to discern pixels anyway. Then we'd be pixel peeping again!
The point of higher pixel count is increases resolution at higher print sizes right? So let's get to it and see at per pixel? I'm willing to be objective but I'd like to see both tests.
solar1 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
First let me give praise for covering aspects of this camera that few reviews bother taking.I did go to the japanese pentax website some time ago where they have absolutely stunning webpages for the K20D, but in Japanese. So with the funky google translation, I was able to get a bit of an idea on the new camera before it showed up in shops. I thought it was a mistranslation regarding this illustration function - it sounds really interesting. Please do show an image or two in your upcoming review... and thanks for bringing up the topic.
The Irish Patient - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Not a big deal, but the 10d used a pentaprism viewfinder instead of the more common pentamirror setup, and the viewfinder could be removed to use interchangeable focus screens.Does the 20d retain these features?
hiepbiz - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
In fact, if you bought the Katz Eye one, you can switch it to the new K20D without any problem. Pentax does have my vote in backward compatibility department.The Irish Patient - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I wouldn't usually clutter up a forum with a "thank you" post, but your reply deserves an exception.The Katz Eye Focusing Screen you directed me to is exactly what I had hoped to find. OK, I'm a dinosaur, but I still prefer to focus manually as on my antediluvian Nikon. For those readers that have never seen what manual focus is supposed to look like on an SLR, the Katz screens have both the central split prism and a surrounding microprism ring.
I said in my original post that the ability to swap out the focusing screen on the k20d was not a big deal, but now it's a very big deal for me. I just hope I can get a decent price on my XTi now that the XSi has been announced.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Yes the K20D continues to use a real pentaprism and it does feature interchangeable focusing screens. The lower-end K200D will use a pentamirror like the Sony A350/A300/A200, Canon XSi/XTi, and Canon D60/D40x/D40spazmedia - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I still don't get why camera makers insist on increasing megapixel count on prosumer cameras. This makes little difference when printing at low iso and at high iso just makes things worse. The sensor made by Samsung look interesting, if only they did not increase the resolution.also does the K20 display iso setting in the viewfinder?
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I remember when 1 megapixel was touted as all one could ever want or use in a digital camera :) Pentax claims that the 14.6 megapixel resolution matches the resolution of 35mm film. Others might claim 35mm film resolution is a bit higher than this. I really don't think the resolution wars will ever be over, but like reducing manufacturing traces in computer CPUs each improvement in speed introduces a new set of problems to be resolved.The resolution wars are slowing a bit right now as we do approach 35mm resolution, but anyone who shoots medium format or view cameras knows there is much more resolution beyond 35mm film. It will be great when we can shoot those higher resolutions with a small digital camera. Of course hitting the 35mm film resolution range is also hitting the resolving limit of most current lenses, so future lenses will require even better optics.
We have already seen that the develpoing move to full-frame by Sony, Nikon, Canon is requiring the best optics available as average lenses are obviously inferior on those bigger, higher-resolution sensors. Future resolution increases will likely require an optics quality revolution to have much relevance.
madgonad - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
35mm film is actually about 10MP. Maybe a little less for lower quality films.The motion picture film libraries have been scanning at the maximum discernible resolution for a while to create digital masters of the movie archives. They are scanning at 4K resolutions which is the equivalent image of about 10MP. You can shoot at higher resolutions but eventually all you are doing is just magnifying the image and requiring more and more light for proper exposure. I am not actually sure what human vision translates into megapixels.
yyrkoon - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Human eye 'MegaPixel' equivalent in a camera last I read was somewhere above 32 MP(some argue 64MP, some argue higher). wikipedia claims 81MP.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye
Personally, I am happy with 6MP, but very unhappy with the current Dynamic range capabilities of ALL cameras. From what I have read, the human eye has a static contrast ratio of 100:1(about 6.5 stops), but a dynamic contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 (about 20 stops). All this is what I have read from wikipedia, but I have read other 'articles' that have claimed similarly.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I completely agree that the biggest challenge in today's digital cameras is dynamic range. Another reader chided me for not spending some time talking about the dynamic range expansion feature on the K20D that allows expansion at the top and bottom of the dynamic range. We will try to cover this in the full review.I could also agree with you about the limitations of film dynamic range, except that I find digital imaging is still far more limited in dyanamic range than film. When it reaches film level I can expand my complaints.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
There is hardly universal agreement with your 10 megapixel answer. This is from Brad Templeton in "How many pixels are there in a frame of 35mm film?" at http://pic.templetons.com/brad/photo/pixels.html">http://pic.templetons.com/brad/photo/pixels.html"This is a somewhat controversial question, and there are many possible answers. Film is an analog medium, so it doesn't have "pixels" per se, though film scanners have pixels and a specific resolution.
Today the one thing most people agree on is that it's a more than any current consumer digital camera. The debate is about how much resolution the digitals will have to reach to start matching the film.
The very short answer is that there are around 20 million "quality" pixels in a top-quality 35mm shot. That's a shot with a tripod, mirror-up, with a top-rate lens and the finest-grained film, in decent light. 12 million are more typical for "good" shots. There may be as few as 4 million "quality" pixels in a handheld shot with a point-and-shoot camera or camera with a poor lens. And of course if focus is poor, or light is poor, or the camera was not held steady, the number will drop down below the 1-2 million pixels of the modern consumer digicam. Of course, one can have a bad shot with a digital camera too, not using all its resolving ability. However, few pick their gear with the plan of shooting badly.
The eye, however, is not as discerning when looking at a picture in the usual context as it can be when looking at things blown up. So many can also argue that a shot of around 9 million pixels would look as good to the eye as a 35mm shot, except when blown up very large and looked at quite closely."
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
www.clarkvision.com measured all formats and found 35mm Fujichrome Velvia required 10 megapixels to accurately portray color intensity but 16 megapixels to accurately portray color detail. Black & White Tech Pan required 16 megapixels to accurately convery the same information on a digital sensor.It is very interesting that Medium format (6x4.5mm) required a sensor resolution of 31 megapixels to 52 megapixels to convey the same information as Velvias on a medium format camera. Large format 8x10 view format required an amazing 600 to 960 megapixels to covey the same info.
It appears there are many opinions as to the true digital "equivalent" to 35mm resolution. The Pentax figure of 14.6 megapixels seems like a pretty good value in the ranges I have seen for 35mm film. However the equivalent resolution required for Medium Format and 8x10 View should amply show we have a long way to potentially go in sensor resolution.
spazmedia - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Thanks for the info. While the maximum resolution you quote from various websites is at around 16megapixels for film cameras (at iso50-100 it should be note) the sensor on the K20D as you well know is not 35mm. In any case for general purposes photography, you really don't need all that resolution (inc. landscapes). With film you also needed to deal with grain when enlarging, which is absent with all modern digital cameras. But camera makers need to sell cameras and increasing resolution is a sure fire way to do so.And you will never match medium/large formats in terms of resolution on an APS-c sensor as you are diffraction limited. Which makes increases in resolution even more useless.
But the most important, an you pointed this out very well, is that the new Pentax K20d is a joy to use. now if only I can justify to my wife why i need another camera!!!
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
ISO is displayed in the Viewfinder when you select the Sensitivity (Sv) program. In this mode the ISO is underlined and you can adjust the ISO in half-steps (100, 140, 200, 280, 400, 560, 800, 1100, 1600, 2200, 3200, 4500, 6400) using the rear dial and see the changes in ISO in the viewfinder. As in other shift modes the ISO value blinks if an ISO you select is out of range for a correct exposure with the lens you are using.Cideway - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Hyper Program was first released in the Pentax Z1 in 1991. It consists of 2 dials and a green button, Front dial is Tv, rear dial is Av and the green button resets to the Program line. Turn either wheel at any time and you will change priority. The next element of HyP is the Program line its self, you have four options to choose from, Normal P, Hi P, Depth P and MTF P. Normal is as it says, while Hi is biased towards high shutter speeds, Depth is biased towards large DoF and MTF is biased towards the Lenses best aperture. (All Pentax Lens Designs are MTF tested and the data is encoded into the Lens, while FA* and DA*s are individually tested as are the FA and DA LTDs). I haven't used the Minolta system but nothing from Nikon or Canon quiet compares with HyP from Pentax.dug777 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Aha!I understand the latter part of that explanation to be very different from what I am familiar with from Nikon(and pretty neat too).
Other than that, it appears the shifting priority is pretty convenient, using either dial.
Sensitivity Priority however, sounds exactly, 100% identical to what my Nikon does on Program Auto with a fixed ISO. You select an ISO value (check). You point the camera at on object. The camera picks what it considers to be the best aperture & shutter settings to maintain that ISO (check).
You can even then roll the main command dial to roll through different combinations of shutter speed and aperture which give the same exposure (which is a less simple version of those four program modes you describe, I don't know what 'biases' it works through there).
dug777 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
As far as I'm aware, most manufacturers offers variants of this. Shooting program auto, shutter priority, aperture priority, and full manual with my D80 I've a choice of locking the ISO, or allowing the camera to vary it.
Program auto lets the camera do everything, and rotating the main command dial in this mode lets you choose between different aperture/shutter combinations that produce the same exposure. On shutter priority, the camera controls the aperture, and vice versa for aperture priority. Finally on full auto you control the shutter & aperture (using the front & main command dials).
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
In Pentax Program mode the front dial adjusts shutter speed and the rear dial adjusts aperture. When you click either dial the corresonding value you are adjusting is underlined in the viewfinder. Hyperprogram shifts the corresonding value to keep the same exposure, and it blinks if you select a value outside the exposure range. the shifted value survives an auto LED shutoff and remains underlined so you can instantly see what you shifted. You can turn off the shift and return to regular program mode by hitting the green dot button next to the shutter release and front dial.Most other companies now have some variation of this feature but the Pentax implementation is still the most logical, most complete, and easiest to use in my opinion.
Johnmcl7 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I have to admit having read through the posts I don't see what is so much simpler about other manufacturers - on the Olympus E-3 when in program mode you turn the front dial and it switches to shutter priority (the display changes to Ps to show you've changed it). Alternatively if you want aperture priority you turn the rear dial, it won't let you underexpose (without using EV compensation) but that seems reasonable.However I think Panasonic have by far the simplest implementation on their L1 - it has a dedicated shutter dial and aperture dial (on Panasonic lenses), by default the aperture and shutter dials sit at 'A' which is full automatic control, the camera chooses both. If you want to choose shutter priority you just turn the shutter dial and the camera will work out an aperture for you. If you want aperture priority you turn the dial and choose an aperture, the camera will work out shutter speed if that's still on A. If you want full manual control just choose both an aperture and shutter value. Any time you want to switch back to automatic on either aspect you just turn the dial back, aside from being simple there's the obvious benefit that even with the camera powered down you can see what aperture/shutter is set to and also change it without switching the camera on.
John
Heidfirst - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I'll give you the Programme Sensitivity being unique but the rest doesn't seem too different to Minoltas going way back - my 1993 Dynax 700Si has it.dug777 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I think I understand what you're saying, like A & S (full Manual even) priority modes from Nikon, but within Program auto?haplo602 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Hey finaly an SLR review on anandtech I can agree with.BUT you left out THE big feature of K20D - dynamic range manipulation. You can move the dynamic range in one or both directions on the K20D.
f.e. the camera will shoot the shadows at 200iso while highlights are shot at 100iso ... like a real time HDR option.
I saw comparison photos of this in a magazine and that was a WOW moment (unlike Windows Vista :-)). finaly one revolutionary feature and long needed in the DSLR technology.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
We were also impressed with the dynamic range expansion options on the K20D, and we will be covering this in more detail in the full review. Most other manufacturers in prosumer space have similar capabilities under differnt names, but the flexibility of the Pentax variant will definitley be examined in the full review.dash2k8 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
It's always good to see companies push the technology envelope, because other brands will be forced to follow suit and in the end, the consumers benefit. From a practical point, however, this Pentax release would probably not be as big an industry splash as, say, a Canon 50D with 14.6 mpixels, given the market for each brand. But it sure paves the way for a brighter tech future for all photographers.Heidfirst - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
oh & apart from the SDM part compare the specs. of it to the Tokina AT-X 165 PRO DX ... ;)Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Tokina is the T in THK (Tokina Hoya Kenko) and has recently developed several lenses with Pentax. These Tokina lenses are offered in mounts other than Pentax so as not to compete with thier own brand. However, as you point out, SDM is not a feature of these Tokina lenses.WalkingDead - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
The Pentax lens also has full weather seals.Heidfirst - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
at least in my part of the world the A350 has been shipping for a week or so.
this sounds very similar to what is available on Minolta/Sony & I just always presumed that all other camera manufacturers had similar?
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
The Sony A350 has not yet shipped in the US market. It is not even available direct from Sony, who says it will be available March 24th. Amazon is showing the A350 will be released April 25th. The new Sony A200, announced at CES, has been available in the US for several weeks.Heidfirst - Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - link
I am assured that the A350 is now shipping in the USA - 1 well known guy on the forums is expecting his today.lol101 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
The HypP mode is different from the program shift that you can find on other manufacturer's models.In HypP mode, when you select an aperture, you're effectively going to Av mode, meaning that the camera will keep the selected value for all subsequent shots and adapt the shutter speed.
Same goes for selecting a shutter speed that gets you in Tv mode.
Each time, the selected parameter is underlined in the VF so that you always know which parameter is dominant.
If at some point you decide you want to hand control back to the camera (ie switch back to P mode), you just have to press the green button.
Simple, usefull and very efficient.
dug777 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
I appreciate that, but what you've both described is what happens in A & S Priority for Nikon (*screams*).In A priority, you select an aperture, and the camera picks the shutter speed. The aperture does not change until you change it (ewven if you turn the camera off. You know Aperture is dominant because you've turned a dial to set 'A' for aperture priority.
Vice versa for shutter priority.
All HyP appears to do is allow you to go directly into A or S (and effectively full manual if you do both), without turning a dial.
You do however need to press a button to go back to full P. So it saves you that initial click. But it does sound pretty handy, and easy to use.
Unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious, in which case I sincerely apologise for wasting your time :o
lol101 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Yes, the only thing the HyP mode allows you to do is switch between P, Tv or Av without having to stop shooting to switch some dial.It may look like a small subtlety but I can assure you it just makes the photographer's life easier.
It's instantaneous and the camera just doesn't get in your way when faced with changing conditions and that's what's interesting about it.
I use both Pentax and Canon systems and still cannot understand why Pentax are the only one to implement such things as HyP (or even better: HyM mode) or to allow the user to set the ISO directly with some dial and use one button press to go to auto ISO.... these are just things that make you forget about the camera while shooting and being able to control everything without ever leaving the VF from the eye.
The 'philosophy" is rather simple IMO: give the photographer a way to adjust any shooting parameter (shutter speed, aperture or ISO) when he wants it and without having to bother about pressing a dedicated button or changing a mode dial.
Heidfirst - Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - link
I suspect that Pentax aren't the only ones to give that functionality but probably are the only ones to do so in that exact way.Minolta (now Sony of course) were always thought of as cameras designed by photographers for photographers (Canon are designed by engineers for marketing :P) - I suspect that theirs & Pentax design ethos are very similar.
Heidfirst - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Pentax & Minolta/Sony (& probably others) have full A & S priority modes as well though.Going by a later, fuller description of HyperProgramme it does seem to have slightly more than Minolta/Sony's implementation although I would argue that at least some of that secondary ability is covered by user ability/knowledge (I assume that most users of that level of camera have some experience & appreciation of the effects of aperture & shutter) as I'm sure that you would with Nikon.
On my A700 I have Auto, Programme (3 versions), assorted scenes modes (which I suspect also largely covers the secondary abilities of Hyperprogramme), aperture priority, shutter priority, 3 memory settings & of course full manual - a bit of overkill imo.
It's not surprising that I see more people eschewing automation & going back to doing more manually.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
The K20D also has Sv (sensitivity), Tv (shutter), and Av (Aperture) Prioriy programs. Theres is also a very interesting and unique Mode called the TAv (time & aperture priority). In TAv mode shutter speed (time) and aperture are fixed and only the ISO is automatically adjusted for the proper exposure. The camera adjusted ISO is displayed in the viewfinder and blinks if the exposure is out of range. Shutter can be adjusted with the front dial and aperture with the rear dial.There are some situations where you might require a certain aperture for depth of field and at least a certain shutter speed to prevent blur and that is where the TAv mode could be very useful. As far as I know the K20D and K10D are the only SLR cameras with anything like the TAv Program.
Heidfirst - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Minolta/Sony seems very similar - you actually have 3 Programme modes (as well as full Auto) incl. Pa & Ps where the camera will remember the adjusted setting for future shots & vary the other to compensate as the lighting changes.Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Most manufacturers do have variants of the hyperprogram feature and I've used almost all of them. However this Pentax feature is still one of the easiest to use and most flexible when you add the unique Sensitivity Priority program.dug777 - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
Regarding my description of the Nikon D80 system, how exactly is it easier?As far as I can see it's effectively identical (and incredibly easy to use).
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - link
See lol101's description of Hyperprogram below or my detailed desription on page 2 for more info on the specifics of how Pentax Hyperprogram works.