I've purchased 3 of these drives, and 2 have failed in about 4 months time. One was in my pc, the other was in an external enclosure. (The one still working is in my HTPC).
2 out of 3 failures in such a short time is pretty bad.
However... the reason I won't be buying any more Samsung drives is not because they failed, but because they don't have an advance replacement program. That was fairly shocking to me! I took it for granted after sending it failed drives to Maxtor and WD (both of whom have outstanding service when it comes to that, BTW).
Hard drive failures are a given, and I can't deal with that. A drive failure is too critical a problem to wait for a replacement more than a couple days. In my opinion anyway...
I remember having a 20gb Western Digital Caviar, which did me the favour of giving me a special sign that it had come near the end of it's life, so I could replace it in time. If only all HDs could issue that kind of warning...
Oh boy. Useful to know this. I guess I will wait to buy them.
You're a lot more forgiving than I am. I really hate hard drive failures, because they take so long to recover from. It's the worst type of failure in my opinion. And also, because I'm stupid and go a few days without doing a proper backup sometimes. So, for hard disks, I value reliability more than any other part (except maybe the power supply, which tends to screw up a lot of things further down the food chain).
The replacement policy shows that Samsung doesn't quite get it. They don't seem to understand how important reliability is, or how important it is to get someone up and running again as quickly as possible. I always carry a spare or two if it's for a RAID array, but Samsung is selling these to residential people too, and no one likes being without their computer, and they aren't going to keep spare hard disks.
It's not that I'm forgiving, its more that I've excepted the fact(or at least high probability) that any hard drive I buy today, from any manufacturer, will fail. Maybe tomorrow, maybe the next day, maybe 5 years from now.
So as a consequence, I am extremely diligent about backing up my data. I use both RAID and a backup service from mozy.com for the most important data.
Also, I hear a lot of talk about how "Maxtor sucks!" or "Seagate sucks" or "<insert manufactuer> sucks!". The simple fact of the matter is: Without factual data from the hard drive makers themselves, there will NEVER be any method of determining which hard drive manufacturers are the most reliable. And none of them will ever produce that data for obvious reasons.
Case in point: I've had more hard drives than I can even remember in the last 15+ years, and I truly can't think of "the best manufacturer". Every time I've thought I had a great series of drives, I had failures at some point that made me rethink it. So...... backup, backup, backup, and go with the company that provides the best warranty, service, etc. Which, IMHO, ain't Samsung.
Well, you have some factual data from Seagate, look at their warranty.
Hard drives can fail, but I have had none from Seagate fail, and this included drives over 5 years old, actually, some over 10. And this goes back to the ST-255 and ST-251, although you'd have to low level them every few years because they were steppers. Crashtors I never bought, but they were so widely recognized as bad, it was way past anecdotal. IBM's drive problems were also not anecdotal, they were widely publicized and even recognized by IBM. Western Digital's were similar, although I don't remember exactly what Western Digital did to fix it. I had bought two of their drives around that time, and both died as well. So, it's not just people blabbing, some of it is very clearly bigger than that. I have never seen Seagate get into that situation, and they sell a lot of drives.
I actually did have a Seagate fail, but it was some 10K monster made in the 1990s, and it was left in a garage for about three years. I can't really blame it for that, it probably got stepped on and kicked and slept on by a raccoon. But, it worked before it's garage experience. Having used well over 200 Seagate hard drives over the years, just my own, not for a company, that's not a bad success rate, especially since the ones in my main machines I don't change often. The one on this machine is from 2001, and doesn't make a sound and is on 24/7. Try that with a Samsung.
I do agree, back up early and often. I forget to sometimes though, I wish I didn't, but I do. You really have no control over it, it can happen any time, so the only way to address that truly is to make sure the impact of it happening is limited. But, I'm a moron, I don't do it as often as I should, and I just don't seem to be able to get into the habit of it.
If you click on the storage header that will take you to a page where you can see all the intro text for those articles - same goes for the other areas, of course. Not like it really matters much, does it?
quote: If you click on the storage header that will take you to a page where you can see all the intro text for those articles - same goes for the other areas, of course. Not like it really matters much, does it?
It did in this case, we actually put some thought into it this time. LOL....
This Friday you will have part one up, finally, and then it will be followed by four or five sections over the next four weeks. We will cover everything from cases to keyboards, HD-DVD or Blu-ray, 8600GT or 2600XT, etc, etc. It turns out not just to be about motherboards this time, but the entire system. ;)
Have you considered reviewing any of the old IBM type keyboards? They don't make them anymore, or so most people believe, so they sell for a ton of money on eBay. But, there is a place that says they sell the exact type of keyboard, with the real feedback, and click. I haven't tried one, because I don't use a regular keyboard (they don't make the natural style), but since most people still do, you might want to contact these folks and see what they have. That type of feel is so much better, and I'd buy one instead of this Microsoft crap except for the layout. It's hard to go back to a regular keyboard after you get used to a natural one :( .
I'm guessing they'd be really interested in you reviewing their products, and for people that use normal keyboards, if they are what they say they are, it would be a very useful review. I surely miss those clicky keyboards, I think a lot of people do.
I have a question for you after reading how much you like this drive. Would you actually use one? I have had nothing but trouble with Samsung drives, and from your opening paragraph you have too. They apparently were junk, and their very low ratings for how long they expect the drive to last don't exactly instill confidence. So, you've got a really high opinion on a drive that could be real junk, since I think most people would favor reliability over just about anything else. Do you know more than you said in this article about reliability? Have you guys been having more success lately with Samsung drives? Samsung normally makes really good products, despite their horrible hard disks of the past, so I'm wondering if I should give them another shot. Now that Seagate bought "Crashtor", their quality is liable to go down for a while.
One thing that's in their favor is the low heat. Low heat tends to make things more reliable. But then, their own ratings aren't very good. Seagate's don't last only five years. I don't know how long they last, they always outlive their useful lives even if they are used all the time.
Maybe it just me, but I wasn't overly impressed with the Samsung P120 that I bought last year. Back then I was in the market for a quiet drive, and the choice toward Samsung came naturally to me with all the hype that surrounded it. I recall that everywhere I turned I'd hear Samsung drives are the quietest.
Unfortunately, the one I got (SP2014N with a nidec motor) fell behind my expectations. It had a louder and less pleasant idle noise than the Hitachi 7K80 drive it was meant to replace and also vibrated a lot and had an annoying high-pitched whine. As a point of reference, my ongoing experience with Western Digital WD1600AAJS has been far more positive.
One of the drives I bought had a terrible whining too. I just threw the thing out. I couldn't stand it and my cat threatened to leave me if I didn't address it. My drives were 5400 RPM, so I didn't have the vibration problems, but that whining was enough to make me scream. And I almost lost my cat over it.
I have two P120s, one is extremely quiet, more so than the WD1600AAJS, the other likes to whistle at times for lack of better words. I picked up one of these T166 500GB drives and have been impressed with it except for the vibration issue that was noted, four rubber grommets later and that was solved. Glad to see a Samsung review finally by the way. :)
quote: I have a question for you after reading how much you like this drive. Would you actually use one?
We bought two of these drives (we always buy at least one review sample to compare to the drives provided by the suppliers, which in this case Samsung did not) for the review about three months back. Since that time we have had both drives running practically 24/7 in a variety of cases, most with minimal cooling, without issue. This testing is for our m-ATX roundup as this drive will be our recommendation in a low cost HTPC setup. After the first month without any issues, I personally bought a couple of the drives to use in personal systems, once again no issues to date and this includes my work machine.
As much as we like the drive, we still cross our fingers and say a couple of prayers when checking on the test systems. The main reason, I had some horrible experiences in the past with Samsung, to the point that it was very difficult to say yes when asked to review their drives as I just expected something to go wrong with them if I ended up saying something positive. ;) So far, they have proved me wrong and from reports from other websites, and people like Eugene at Storage Review, this drive series is a winner to date. This does not mean you might not get a bad drive, it happens, but it appears the DeathStar type failures Samsung has had in the past is gone now. I am still a little apprehensive but so far so good, in fact, we had a couple of Seagates and WD drives fail here lately so nobody is immune.
I had similar problems with them, but I was stubborn and kept buying more because I liked Samsung as a company. Also, they made 5400 RPM drives, which is what I was after since I prefered the low power use and less heat to the extra performance. At the time, they were about the only game in town at those sizes, and I had a strong preference for the 5400 RPM. So, I kept trying different models, and they all sucked. Now I just buy the notebook drives and use a small adapter for it. They are expensive though for the capacity, but it does work well.
I'm going to try them again at some point too, because I think it's a good company overall and they will get things right. Hopefully they already have.
quote: Now I just buy the notebook drives and use a small adapter for it. They are expensive though for the capacity, but it does work well.
From your experience, are there any caveats to using a notebook drive on the desktop other than physical mounting? I mean something like this feature that parks the read/write head after a number of seconds of inactivity. This seems to result in an audible click which some people do not appreciate. For example, this is from a Newegg user's review on WD Scorpio 160GB:
"It's quiet 99% of the time but the 1% parking "klink" gets annoying quickly. It's in my MacBook Pro now but may soon be swapped to my PS3 where I won't hear the klink."
I think I'd be annoyed too. Have you noticed anything of that sort with your drives? Do you think it'd be an issue in a quiet environment?
quote: Now I just buy the notebook drives and use a small adapter for it. They are expensive though for the capacity, but it does work well.
From your experience, are there any caveats to using a notebook drive on the desktop other than physical mounting? I mean something like this feature that parks the read/write head after a number of seconds of inactivity. This seems to result in an audible click which some people do not appreciate. For example, this is from a Newegg user's review on WD Scorpio 160GB:
"It's quiet 99% of the time but the 1% parking "klink" gets annoying quickly. It's in my MacBook Pro now but may soon be swapped to my PS3 where I won't hear the klink."
I think I'd be annoyed too. Have you noticed anything of that sort with your drives? Do you think it'd be an issue in a quiet environment?
Actually, I'm one of the weirdos that like a noisy hard disk, but only when it's accessing data. I know that sounds strange, but I'm used to it and it gives me an idea of what's going on without me having to look at the hard disk light. I really dislike not hearing the drive.
Having said that, the small drives seem very, very quiet to me. I don't hear them at all unless they are accessing data, and even then they seem quieter. Mind you, this is for a completely fanless computer too, so it is very quiet. The bad thing about this is, your ears adjust to everything being quieter, and even though I bought the most silent DVD drive, for example, and run it at the quietest settings, it still seems so loud because everything else is so quiet. It's strange how humans always find a way to make themselves miserable :P .
The big consequence is, the performance is really quite low on these drives. I do like 3.5 inch 5400 RPM drives, and still use quite a few, and the notebook drives are considerably slower. I don't know why exactly, I guess they are spinning the same speed, but it's a very noticeable difference. The cost is really high too per megabyte. However, you save money on power (although, I doubt enough) and I could not run a fanless system with a standard hard drive, so it kind of was the only choice. The insides would get so hot from the hard disk, the CPU would fail. Now, just from convection, it cools itself adequately, and it's a tiny case (mini-itx). If you listen to things like Classical music on your computer though, it's worth it since you have absolutely no noise (except, don't even think about listening to it from the CD, the CD sounds like a howitzer).
The drive I bought does not have the parking behavior you mention, or at least I can't hear it if it does. To reiterate, if you do this, be prepared for abysmal performance, and possibly not being able to hear the drive when it's being accessed. I can if I really, really listen, but it's so quiet it's not easy, so it's useless. It's easier just to look for the light. But, it generates A LOT less heat and makes different setups possible.
I've got two 160GB SATA Samsung drives still going strong in one of my PCs. Another IDE 120GB worked for about a year and then fail, at which point Samsung sent me a replacement. However, the failure was hardly Samsung's fault. See, I put the drive into one of the old Antec cases where the HDD cage could fit 3 HDDs, along with the two 160GB drives I just mentioned. It hit 100+ F two summers ago, and I don't have AC. While I was gone during the day, the middle HDD died. I got home from work and found my PC had crashed, and when I rebooted I heard a nasty clicking sound. I opened the case and found that the HDDs were extremely hot, with the middle one probably at above 150 F. The replacement they sent is still working fine, two years later.
FWIW, I also bought one of the newer 320GB SATA models earlier this year. No complaints so far. Honestly, performance with HDDs has become nearly the same - look at the application timing results and forget the iPEAK stuff. I don't run benches on my HDDs in regular use, and I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between my Samsung (D:) and my Western Digital (C:), or any other recent 7200 RPM HDD for that matter.
For every post like this I could give examples of seagates, WDs and hitachis failing more than once in the same environment - and it still doesnt say a whole lot about the overall quality of a brand due to small sample size. I suggest you go have a look at some substantiated statistics at www.storagereview.com.
Kind of weird when you get three lemons out of three. Not three out of 20, but I got three out of three. On top of this, Gary mentions he had problems. Hmmmmm, odds aren't so bad that Samsung makes rubbish now, or at least did. But wait, they offer less of a warranty than Seagate, and on top of this their expected lifetime of the product is less. Yes, all coincidence! Absolutely crazy to question their reliability.
By the way Western Digital did have reliability problems, no argument there. I have never liked their drives. Seagate and IBM were my choices, but the IBM fiasco a few years ago turned me off their drives and Hitachi's. Samsung makes good products, which is the only reason I would try their hard drives again even though they sucked bad in the past. Fujitsu used to make a perfectly horrible hard disk too, but I guess they are gone. Asians don't seem particuarly good at motherboards or hard disks, I don't know why. They make them cheap, but they don't seem to have the reliability of American companies.
1. bought around the same time?
2. the same model drive?
3. used in the same computer/temperature environment?
There's nothing crazy about questioning reliability, but to generalise an entire companies products on the basis of a couple of failures is. This one really gets me though,
quote: Asians don't seem particuarly good at motherboards or hard disks ... they don't seem to have the reliability of American companies.
LOL! What American companies are making reliable motherboards? AFAIK almost all mobo's (good and bad) are made in Taiwan.
No, they were all different models, and they were bought within three months of each other, but not at the same time.
If you read my message, you would realize it's not based on a couple of failures, three of mine, and Gary's own problems, plus the low reliability rating from Samsung. Only a fool wouldn't put 2 + 2 together and realize something might be wrong with them.
I will help you with your motherboard issues. Most motherboards may not even be made in Taiwan, it's not altogether clear, but certainly many are made in the United States. All the best ones are. Ever heard of Intel? It's a big company, they go by the ticker INTC. Check them out. Of course, Supermicro is American too, and are the best with Intel in terms of reliability. Fancy them both being American, huh? Dell is also American, and they make their own motherboards, but their quality isn't really going to help my argument. I'm not sure where they're made, but if they're made in the U.S., they certainly illustrate how many still are. If they're not, they illustrate how American made quality is better.
Also, motherboards were not always made in Taiwan. Older computers were made in the U.S., and you can't kill them. Ever hear of a PS/2 motherboard going bad? Or a PC/AT? PC/XT? They just didn't die, we'd have room fulls of these machines and they'd go on seemingly forever (hard disks sometimes failed though, and memory did too, often times just from chip creep though). Now, you have this Asus junk plaguing the landscape, and motherboards die and it's not even considered unusual. It's not necessarily a bad thing, because they are cheap and still often outlive their useful lives, although not always. But, they are far less reliable than motherboards of the past that were made in the U.S., and the two most reliable motherboard manufacturers today are, not too surprisingly, American! So, stop acting so incredulous, it's uninformed.
quote: All the best ones are. Ever heard of Intel? It's a big company, they go by the ticker INTC. Check them out. Of course, Supermicro is American too, and are the best with Intel in terms of reliability. Fancy them both being American, huh?
LOL. You're funny! Intel doesn't even make motherboards.
Of course build quality/reliability has come down over the years (as it has in almost all manufacturing sectors), but this has been done very consciously to lower cost so please don't pretend the U.S. is special in this regard.
Intel doesn't make motherboards? Is this an episode of the Twilight Zone? How can two people believe this. Well, I must be drugged or something, because I would have sworn I had several Intel motherboards running and about 15 that are part of my collection that are for show.
I know this is an old comment, but I just had to comment on this one...Intel mainboards are not actually made by Intel...never have been to my knowledge. All Intel mainboards are designed by Intel, however; Intel contracts all manufacturing out to Foxconn.
Intel boards are really made overseas. People do not realize Foxconn makes a lot of stuff in the computer industry.
Supermicro and Intel. They are widely regarded as the most reliable in the industry, and my personal experience with them does nothing to disprove it. Strangely, my personal experience with Epox is very good too, and they are Taiwanese, but this is not something I have seen widely accepted. So, I guess it's just a fluke. I also don't know what's happened to them. If I were going to buy an AMD based motherboard, I would pick them, but they don't seem to be selling much anymore. Again, I'm pretty sure I was just lucky with them, since they aren't known for reliability. But, sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be smart.
Just read the Newegg reviews. This Samsung drive is the most highly rated 500GB hard drive on Newegg over Seagate and Western Digital. A company is not going to sell hard drives that are unreliable, maybe your luck is just bad or something.
I've had this Samsung hard drive sitting in my Newegg cart for awhile, but frys had an awesome deal for the 4th of July where they were selling Maxtor 500GB SATA3 16MB Cache Retail hard drives for $90...it's suppose to arrive tomorrow but damn, now I wish I would have waited and bought this Samsung instead.
I've heard the 500GB Maxtor hard drives are rebadged Seagate 7200.10 drives since Seagate bought Maxtor up while ago. I'll find out tomorrow when UPS delivers it.
You've got guts buying a Crashtor, and if it actually a Seagate, count yourself lucky. But, you probably have a Crashtor or some mixture. Seagate has properly relegated it to the low end segment, but they also said when they bought them that Maxtor had better perpendicular recording technology. I don't know what that means exactly, but your hard disk might truly be befouled by Maxtor genetics. Back up early and often. Hmmm, maybe that should have been Crashtor's moto. It's catchy.
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8steve8 - Sunday, July 15, 2007 - link
ive had 2 of these drives for 8 months now,, so the review seems late.obviously the new samsung 1TB 3platter drives are immensly interesting.
the specs and samsungs history in this market makes it seem to be the drive to have in the next 12 months.
natebsi - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
I've purchased 3 of these drives, and 2 have failed in about 4 months time. One was in my pc, the other was in an external enclosure. (The one still working is in my HTPC).2 out of 3 failures in such a short time is pretty bad.
However... the reason I won't be buying any more Samsung drives is not because they failed, but because they don't have an advance replacement program. That was fairly shocking to me! I took it for granted after sending it failed drives to Maxtor and WD (both of whom have outstanding service when it comes to that, BTW).
Hard drive failures are a given, and I can't deal with that. A drive failure is too critical a problem to wait for a replacement more than a couple days. In my opinion anyway...
Final Hamlet - Thursday, July 12, 2007 - link
Backup + cooling = No need to worry.I remember having a 20gb Western Digital Caviar, which did me the favour of giving me a special sign that it had come near the end of it's life, so I could replace it in time. If only all HDs could issue that kind of warning...
TA152H - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
Oh boy. Useful to know this. I guess I will wait to buy them.You're a lot more forgiving than I am. I really hate hard drive failures, because they take so long to recover from. It's the worst type of failure in my opinion. And also, because I'm stupid and go a few days without doing a proper backup sometimes. So, for hard disks, I value reliability more than any other part (except maybe the power supply, which tends to screw up a lot of things further down the food chain).
The replacement policy shows that Samsung doesn't quite get it. They don't seem to understand how important reliability is, or how important it is to get someone up and running again as quickly as possible. I always carry a spare or two if it's for a RAID array, but Samsung is selling these to residential people too, and no one likes being without their computer, and they aren't going to keep spare hard disks.
natebsi - Thursday, July 12, 2007 - link
It's not that I'm forgiving, its more that I've excepted the fact(or at least high probability) that any hard drive I buy today, from any manufacturer, will fail. Maybe tomorrow, maybe the next day, maybe 5 years from now.So as a consequence, I am extremely diligent about backing up my data. I use both RAID and a backup service from mozy.com for the most important data.
Also, I hear a lot of talk about how "Maxtor sucks!" or "Seagate sucks" or "<insert manufactuer> sucks!". The simple fact of the matter is: Without factual data from the hard drive makers themselves, there will NEVER be any method of determining which hard drive manufacturers are the most reliable. And none of them will ever produce that data for obvious reasons.
Case in point: I've had more hard drives than I can even remember in the last 15+ years, and I truly can't think of "the best manufacturer". Every time I've thought I had a great series of drives, I had failures at some point that made me rethink it. So...... backup, backup, backup, and go with the company that provides the best warranty, service, etc. Which, IMHO, ain't Samsung.
TA152H - Thursday, July 12, 2007 - link
Well, you have some factual data from Seagate, look at their warranty.Hard drives can fail, but I have had none from Seagate fail, and this included drives over 5 years old, actually, some over 10. And this goes back to the ST-255 and ST-251, although you'd have to low level them every few years because they were steppers. Crashtors I never bought, but they were so widely recognized as bad, it was way past anecdotal. IBM's drive problems were also not anecdotal, they were widely publicized and even recognized by IBM. Western Digital's were similar, although I don't remember exactly what Western Digital did to fix it. I had bought two of their drives around that time, and both died as well. So, it's not just people blabbing, some of it is very clearly bigger than that. I have never seen Seagate get into that situation, and they sell a lot of drives.
I actually did have a Seagate fail, but it was some 10K monster made in the 1990s, and it was left in a garage for about three years. I can't really blame it for that, it probably got stepped on and kicked and slept on by a raccoon. But, it worked before it's garage experience. Having used well over 200 Seagate hard drives over the years, just my own, not for a company, that's not a bad success rate, especially since the ones in my main machines I don't change often. The one on this machine is from 2001, and doesn't make a sound and is on 24/7. Try that with a Samsung.
I do agree, back up early and often. I forget to sometimes though, I wish I didn't, but I do. You really have no control over it, it can happen any time, so the only way to address that truly is to make sure the impact of it happening is limited. But, I'm a moron, I don't do it as often as I should, and I just don't seem to be able to get into the habit of it.
Gary Key - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
I am not too impressed with the Hybrid drives and Vista right now. ;) We will have that review up next week.crimson117 - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
How do I read the full blurb? On the main page, I seebut I can't find anywhere that shows the remainder of the text. It's not anywhere in the article.
crimson117 - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
I found the whole blurb when I do a search for the article.Frumious1 - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
If you click on the storage header that will take you to a page where you can see all the intro text for those articles - same goes for the other areas, of course. Not like it really matters much, does it?Gary Key - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
It did in this case, we actually put some thought into it this time. LOL....
JKing76 - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Hey Gary -- mATX roundup?Gary Key - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
This Friday you will have part one up, finally, and then it will be followed by four or five sections over the next four weeks. We will cover everything from cases to keyboards, HD-DVD or Blu-ray, 8600GT or 2600XT, etc, etc. It turns out not just to be about motherboards this time, but the entire system. ;)TA152H - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
Gary,Have you considered reviewing any of the old IBM type keyboards? They don't make them anymore, or so most people believe, so they sell for a ton of money on eBay. But, there is a place that says they sell the exact type of keyboard, with the real feedback, and click. I haven't tried one, because I don't use a regular keyboard (they don't make the natural style), but since most people still do, you might want to contact these folks and see what they have. That type of feel is so much better, and I'd buy one instead of this Microsoft crap except for the layout. It's hard to go back to a regular keyboard after you get used to a natural one :( .
Here is the link if you are interested - http://www.pckeyboard.com">http://www.pckeyboard.com .
I'm guessing they'd be really interested in you reviewing their products, and for people that use normal keyboards, if they are what they say they are, it would be a very useful review. I surely miss those clicky keyboards, I think a lot of people do.
TA152H - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Gary,I have a question for you after reading how much you like this drive. Would you actually use one? I have had nothing but trouble with Samsung drives, and from your opening paragraph you have too. They apparently were junk, and their very low ratings for how long they expect the drive to last don't exactly instill confidence. So, you've got a really high opinion on a drive that could be real junk, since I think most people would favor reliability over just about anything else. Do you know more than you said in this article about reliability? Have you guys been having more success lately with Samsung drives? Samsung normally makes really good products, despite their horrible hard disks of the past, so I'm wondering if I should give them another shot. Now that Seagate bought "Crashtor", their quality is liable to go down for a while.
One thing that's in their favor is the low heat. Low heat tends to make things more reliable. But then, their own ratings aren't very good. Seagate's don't last only five years. I don't know how long they last, they always outlive their useful lives even if they are used all the time.
yehuda - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
Maybe it just me, but I wasn't overly impressed with the Samsung P120 that I bought last year. Back then I was in the market for a quiet drive, and the choice toward Samsung came naturally to me with all the hype that surrounded it. I recall that everywhere I turned I'd hear Samsung drives are the quietest.Unfortunately, the one I got (SP2014N with a nidec motor) fell behind my expectations. It had a louder and less pleasant idle noise than the Hitachi 7K80 drive it was meant to replace and also vibrated a lot and had an annoying high-pitched whine. As a point of reference, my ongoing experience with Western Digital WD1600AAJS has been far more positive.
TA152H - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
One of the drives I bought had a terrible whining too. I just threw the thing out. I couldn't stand it and my cat threatened to leave me if I didn't address it. My drives were 5400 RPM, so I didn't have the vibration problems, but that whining was enough to make me scream. And I almost lost my cat over it.goinginstyle - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
I have two P120s, one is extremely quiet, more so than the WD1600AAJS, the other likes to whistle at times for lack of better words. I picked up one of these T166 500GB drives and have been impressed with it except for the vibration issue that was noted, four rubber grommets later and that was solved. Glad to see a Samsung review finally by the way. :)Gary Key - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
We bought two of these drives (we always buy at least one review sample to compare to the drives provided by the suppliers, which in this case Samsung did not) for the review about three months back. Since that time we have had both drives running practically 24/7 in a variety of cases, most with minimal cooling, without issue. This testing is for our m-ATX roundup as this drive will be our recommendation in a low cost HTPC setup. After the first month without any issues, I personally bought a couple of the drives to use in personal systems, once again no issues to date and this includes my work machine.
As much as we like the drive, we still cross our fingers and say a couple of prayers when checking on the test systems. The main reason, I had some horrible experiences in the past with Samsung, to the point that it was very difficult to say yes when asked to review their drives as I just expected something to go wrong with them if I ended up saying something positive. ;) So far, they have proved me wrong and from reports from other websites, and people like Eugene at Storage Review, this drive series is a winner to date. This does not mean you might not get a bad drive, it happens, but it appears the DeathStar type failures Samsung has had in the past is gone now. I am still a little apprehensive but so far so good, in fact, we had a couple of Seagates and WD drives fail here lately so nobody is immune.
TA152H - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
Thanks for your response.I had similar problems with them, but I was stubborn and kept buying more because I liked Samsung as a company. Also, they made 5400 RPM drives, which is what I was after since I prefered the low power use and less heat to the extra performance. At the time, they were about the only game in town at those sizes, and I had a strong preference for the 5400 RPM. So, I kept trying different models, and they all sucked. Now I just buy the notebook drives and use a small adapter for it. They are expensive though for the capacity, but it does work well.
I'm going to try them again at some point too, because I think it's a good company overall and they will get things right. Hopefully they already have.
yehuda - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
From your experience, are there any caveats to using a notebook drive on the desktop other than physical mounting? I mean something like this feature that parks the read/write head after a number of seconds of inactivity. This seems to result in an audible click which some people do not appreciate. For example, this is from a Newegg user's review on WD Scorpio 160GB:
"It's quiet 99% of the time but the 1% parking "klink" gets annoying quickly. It's in my MacBook Pro now but may soon be swapped to my PS3 where I won't hear the klink."
I think I'd be annoyed too. Have you noticed anything of that sort with your drives? Do you think it'd be an issue in a quiet environment?
yehuda - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
(Sorry about the double post)yehuda - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
From your experience, are there any caveats to using a notebook drive on the desktop other than physical mounting? I mean something like this feature that parks the read/write head after a number of seconds of inactivity. This seems to result in an audible click which some people do not appreciate. For example, this is from a Newegg user's review on WD Scorpio 160GB:
"It's quiet 99% of the time but the 1% parking "klink" gets annoying quickly. It's in my MacBook Pro now but may soon be swapped to my PS3 where I won't hear the klink."
I think I'd be annoyed too. Have you noticed anything of that sort with your drives? Do you think it'd be an issue in a quiet environment?
TA152H - Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - link
Actually, I'm one of the weirdos that like a noisy hard disk, but only when it's accessing data. I know that sounds strange, but I'm used to it and it gives me an idea of what's going on without me having to look at the hard disk light. I really dislike not hearing the drive.Having said that, the small drives seem very, very quiet to me. I don't hear them at all unless they are accessing data, and even then they seem quieter. Mind you, this is for a completely fanless computer too, so it is very quiet. The bad thing about this is, your ears adjust to everything being quieter, and even though I bought the most silent DVD drive, for example, and run it at the quietest settings, it still seems so loud because everything else is so quiet. It's strange how humans always find a way to make themselves miserable :P .
The big consequence is, the performance is really quite low on these drives. I do like 3.5 inch 5400 RPM drives, and still use quite a few, and the notebook drives are considerably slower. I don't know why exactly, I guess they are spinning the same speed, but it's a very noticeable difference. The cost is really high too per megabyte. However, you save money on power (although, I doubt enough) and I could not run a fanless system with a standard hard drive, so it kind of was the only choice. The insides would get so hot from the hard disk, the CPU would fail. Now, just from convection, it cools itself adequately, and it's a tiny case (mini-itx). If you listen to things like Classical music on your computer though, it's worth it since you have absolutely no noise (except, don't even think about listening to it from the CD, the CD sounds like a howitzer).
The drive I bought does not have the parking behavior you mention, or at least I can't hear it if it does. To reiterate, if you do this, be prepared for abysmal performance, and possibly not being able to hear the drive when it's being accessed. I can if I really, really listen, but it's so quiet it's not easy, so it's useless. It's easier just to look for the light. But, it generates A LOT less heat and makes different setups possible.
defter - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
I've used Samsung 160GB drive for about 3.5 years, didn't had any problem with it.Frumious1 - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
I've got two 160GB SATA Samsung drives still going strong in one of my PCs. Another IDE 120GB worked for about a year and then fail, at which point Samsung sent me a replacement. However, the failure was hardly Samsung's fault. See, I put the drive into one of the old Antec cases where the HDD cage could fit 3 HDDs, along with the two 160GB drives I just mentioned. It hit 100+ F two summers ago, and I don't have AC. While I was gone during the day, the middle HDD died. I got home from work and found my PC had crashed, and when I rebooted I heard a nasty clicking sound. I opened the case and found that the HDDs were extremely hot, with the middle one probably at above 150 F. The replacement they sent is still working fine, two years later.FWIW, I also bought one of the newer 320GB SATA models earlier this year. No complaints so far. Honestly, performance with HDDs has become nearly the same - look at the application timing results and forget the iPEAK stuff. I don't run benches on my HDDs in regular use, and I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between my Samsung (D:) and my Western Digital (C:), or any other recent 7200 RPM HDD for that matter.
Griswold - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
For every post like this I could give examples of seagates, WDs and hitachis failing more than once in the same environment - and it still doesnt say a whole lot about the overall quality of a brand due to small sample size. I suggest you go have a look at some substantiated statistics at www.storagereview.com.TA152H - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Kind of weird when you get three lemons out of three. Not three out of 20, but I got three out of three. On top of this, Gary mentions he had problems. Hmmmmm, odds aren't so bad that Samsung makes rubbish now, or at least did. But wait, they offer less of a warranty than Seagate, and on top of this their expected lifetime of the product is less. Yes, all coincidence! Absolutely crazy to question their reliability.By the way Western Digital did have reliability problems, no argument there. I have never liked their drives. Seagate and IBM were my choices, but the IBM fiasco a few years ago turned me off their drives and Hitachi's. Samsung makes good products, which is the only reason I would try their hard drives again even though they sucked bad in the past. Fujitsu used to make a perfectly horrible hard disk too, but I guess they are gone. Asians don't seem particuarly good at motherboards or hard disks, I don't know why. They make them cheap, but they don't seem to have the reliability of American companies.
phusg - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Were these 3 drives1. bought around the same time?
2. the same model drive?
3. used in the same computer/temperature environment?
There's nothing crazy about questioning reliability, but to generalise an entire companies products on the basis of a couple of failures is. This one really gets me though,
LOL! What American companies are making reliable motherboards? AFAIK almost all mobo's (good and bad) are made in Taiwan.
TA152H - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
No, they were all different models, and they were bought within three months of each other, but not at the same time.If you read my message, you would realize it's not based on a couple of failures, three of mine, and Gary's own problems, plus the low reliability rating from Samsung. Only a fool wouldn't put 2 + 2 together and realize something might be wrong with them.
I will help you with your motherboard issues. Most motherboards may not even be made in Taiwan, it's not altogether clear, but certainly many are made in the United States. All the best ones are. Ever heard of Intel? It's a big company, they go by the ticker INTC. Check them out. Of course, Supermicro is American too, and are the best with Intel in terms of reliability. Fancy them both being American, huh? Dell is also American, and they make their own motherboards, but their quality isn't really going to help my argument. I'm not sure where they're made, but if they're made in the U.S., they certainly illustrate how many still are. If they're not, they illustrate how American made quality is better.
Also, motherboards were not always made in Taiwan. Older computers were made in the U.S., and you can't kill them. Ever hear of a PS/2 motherboard going bad? Or a PC/AT? PC/XT? They just didn't die, we'd have room fulls of these machines and they'd go on seemingly forever (hard disks sometimes failed though, and memory did too, often times just from chip creep though). Now, you have this Asus junk plaguing the landscape, and motherboards die and it's not even considered unusual. It's not necessarily a bad thing, because they are cheap and still often outlive their useful lives, although not always. But, they are far less reliable than motherboards of the past that were made in the U.S., and the two most reliable motherboard manufacturers today are, not too surprisingly, American! So, stop acting so incredulous, it's uninformed.
phusg - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
LOL. You're funny! Intel doesn't even make motherboards.
Of course build quality/reliability has come down over the years (as it has in almost all manufacturing sectors), but this has been done very consciously to lower cost so please don't pretend the U.S. is special in this regard.
TA152H - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
Intel doesn't make motherboards? Is this an episode of the Twilight Zone? How can two people believe this. Well, I must be drugged or something, because I would have sworn I had several Intel motherboards running and about 15 that are part of my collection that are for show.Why do you post nonsense that can be easily disproven? Go to their site, I'll help you since you're obviously not too sharp http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/index.ht...">http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/index.ht... .
Fancy that they are just as delusional as I am. At least if I'm insane, I'm in good company (no pun intended).
amdsupport - Monday, September 17, 2007 - link
I know this is an old comment, but I just had to comment on this one...Intel mainboards are not actually made by Intel...never have been to my knowledge. All Intel mainboards are designed by Intel, however; Intel contracts all manufacturing out to Foxconn.Intel boards are really made overseas. People do not realize Foxconn makes a lot of stuff in the computer industry.
snor - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Actually, Foxconn produces Intel's motherboards.TA152H - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
And you are getting this information from where??????lennylim - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Pardon my ignorance. Who are these two manufacturers?
TA152H - Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - link
You couldn't get that from the first message?Supermicro and Intel. They are widely regarded as the most reliable in the industry, and my personal experience with them does nothing to disprove it. Strangely, my personal experience with Epox is very good too, and they are Taiwanese, but this is not something I have seen widely accepted. So, I guess it's just a fluke. I also don't know what's happened to them. If I were going to buy an AMD based motherboard, I would pick them, but they don't seem to be selling much anymore. Again, I'm pretty sure I was just lucky with them, since they aren't known for reliability. But, sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be smart.
gigahertz20 - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Just read the Newegg reviews. This Samsung drive is the most highly rated 500GB hard drive on Newegg over Seagate and Western Digital. A company is not going to sell hard drives that are unreliable, maybe your luck is just bad or something.TA152H - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
Newegg reviews generally aren't written by people three years after they buy a hard drive. So, it's not too useful.gigahertz20 - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
I've had this Samsung hard drive sitting in my Newegg cart for awhile, but frys had an awesome deal for the 4th of July where they were selling Maxtor 500GB SATA3 16MB Cache Retail hard drives for $90...it's suppose to arrive tomorrow but damn, now I wish I would have waited and bought this Samsung instead.BTW, frys still has the deal going on. http://tinyurl.com/2ozqpr">http://tinyurl.com/2ozqpr
I've heard the 500GB Maxtor hard drives are rebadged Seagate 7200.10 drives since Seagate bought Maxtor up while ago. I'll find out tomorrow when UPS delivers it.
Final Hamlet - Thursday, July 12, 2007 - link
Why bother buying the out-dated T166 model if the F1 is entering the market as we're speaking?Just judging after the 1Tera Hitachi it will be more silent, less warm and the 500GB model has only 2 platters instead of 3.
[I don't want to speak badly of Samsung HDs, as I have a T166 and a T133, but why bother buying the old generation?]
TA152H - Monday, July 9, 2007 - link
You've got guts buying a Crashtor, and if it actually a Seagate, count yourself lucky. But, you probably have a Crashtor or some mixture. Seagate has properly relegated it to the low end segment, but they also said when they bought them that Maxtor had better perpendicular recording technology. I don't know what that means exactly, but your hard disk might truly be befouled by Maxtor genetics. Back up early and often. Hmmm, maybe that should have been Crashtor's moto. It's catchy.