While the Silencer is a good unit, there are several less expensive alternatives that are built equally good if not better than this one.
Some that come to mind are:
-Ultra X-Pro series (Andyson)
-Silverstone Zeus ST56ZF (can run 8800GTX SLI with NO problems), 75ZF (Etasis)
-Seasonic S12/M12 nad Corsair
-Zippy GSM series (not less expensive but will out-regulate Seasonic built units)
Maybe you could have offered at least two or three options. Good job though!
I actually had the Silverstone in there as one of the original suggestions, but Gary Key (having had the benefit of testing a huge quantity of these in the past) said he'd send me a bunch of dead ones if I included it in the buyer's guide. Not wanting my wife to have a bunch of dead power supplies to yell at me over, I backed off. :) Personally, though, I've not had one go South on me yet.
Your choices of supplies are really good - any of those could have been chosen for the guide. People will pick at the X-Pro's efficiency rating a bit, but honestly, the rest of it is brand preference.
Dave,
Thank you for taking the time to read through this. :)
Silverstone employ several OEM's, Enhance, Etasis, Seventeam and a relatively new but interesting Impervio Electronics from Taiwan. Not all of them are built equal. The Etasis and the Seventeam builds are based off of server platforms and are less likely to cause problems. I have not heard of mass failure but there have been problems with coil while on the DA and OP series. IMO, it does not warrant having to completely exclude Silverstone from the mix. ;)
quote: ... and as we suggested on the previous page we recommend Windows Vista over Windows XP when it comes to 64-bit Microsoft operating systems
I saw no such thing on the previous page. You only said that you'd choose MCE for 32bit, or Vista because everyone will change to it.
I know Vista is the future, but I live in the present - and when I spend this much on a computer I want it to work as well as it can RIGHT NOW.
Can we have an honest pro/con shootout between XP64 and Vista64?
I'm happy to start off with a few:
Vista Pro:
Aeroglass
Better disk caching
DX10
Con:
8800 drivers still suck
No EAX, no ALchemy for anything but X-Fi
Some games/programs won't work, others don't work well
Larger footprint
Older hardware doesn't have drivers
XP64 Pro:
Drivers are as stable as XP
Games run as well as XP
Con:
Some obscure apps don't work (VoiceChanger is the only one I can think of off-hand)
Older hardware doesn't have drivers
No DX10
Personally I'm willing to sacrifice DX10 and Aero for EAX and speed now. Are you?
Most of the cons of Vista are applicable to both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Our point is that if you're going to get DX10 hardware and a high-end system, you might as well bite the bullet and move to Vista. If you're moving to Vista, you might as well make the jump to 64-bits as well. My understanding is that the XP-64 drivers are still not as robust or available as the XP-32 drivers, so if you're going to have some driver issues anyway... might as well go the whole hog and run Vista! :)
FWIW, I'm only running Vista under dual-boot mode or on certain test systems. It's okay, but there are enough nitpicks against it that I'm not ready to make a complete switch just yet.
We all know that what we consider to be "computer monitors" these days stops at 30" unless you are willing to shell out more then the price of a high end system just for the display alone.
There is one larger display that I think bears serious consideration for a high end rig. Its the Westhinghouse LVM-37W3 37" 1080p display. The W3 version is the one that you typically will not find in stores, and makes an flat out amazing monitor.
It has an 8 ms response and 8 bit Super MVA panel made by Chi-Mei, and plays games at 1920x1080 very easily if you have a good vid card. 37" of screen space makes the 30" look small and the 24" look puny by comparison.
Its also priced around the same as the 30" screens mentioned, and usually comes in somewhat cheaper, especially when there are good deals on shipping. There is a huge thread on this display here. Amazing find, and Maximum PC recently did a little write up on this display and they loved it.
Surprised me to see this recommended, and I got to say great call. I have one of these that just arrived infront of me, and to my surprise it has been modified to offer 2 8-pin + 2 6-pin PCIe connectors for overclocked HD 2900 Crossfire setups. You might wish to update the guide with this info. ;)
I guess it explains why this PSU was certified for R600 Crossfire use, while (The otherwise excellent) 850watt GameXstream PSUs couldn't take it. Only the $285 1010watt GameXStream model PSU made the certification for R600 Crossfire, and it costs $85 higher still than the Quad Silencer. The high price is for a product that offers as much oomph as products outside it's class, and it can now power any kind of SLI or Crossfire setup that can be thrown at it.
Crucial Tracer Ballistix Rebate is a one per household rebate. If you get two, you'll need to work the system some how to get both rebates. It's a great deal, but you might want to warn folks up front.
You were wrong on the Dell 30" LCD. The newer HC model they ship now has a grey-to-grey of 8ms which is what matters for gaming. They never updated their website to the newer specs.
I made some clarifications on the LCD selections. Having personally used both the old Dell 3007WFP and one of the new "high color" 30" LCDs, I'm pretty comfortable in saying that very few people would actually noticed the difference in practical use. I know I couldn't. Besides, the 3007WFP-HC actually costs $1500 as opposed to $1300.
While I very much enjoy Anandtech's Buyer's guides, I have noticed lately a disconnect between what is recommended in the Buyer's guides and what is reviewed in the other articles. For example, I do not think I have ever seen a review of the Samsung hard drives, yet they show up quite often in recent buyer's guides. Also, the Crucial Balistix used in the ultra high end system. Have we seen a review of these?
My point is that if I were to go back through Anandtech motherboard, hard drive and memory reviews - pick out the best performers/editor's choice winners - I would come up with a very different system than what you recommend in Buyer's Guides.
If your goign to recommend a different motherboard, hard drive or memory from what your recent reviews have identified as the "cream of the crop," then give me some benchmarks or other details (not general statements) that demonstrate why.
quote: f your goign to recommend a different motherboard, hard drive or memory from what your recent reviews have identified as the "cream of the crop," then give me some benchmarks or other details (not general statements) that demonstrate why.
We will have the Samsung drives in a review in June. They are not the fastest drives per say in the benchmarks (close enough as not to matter in most applications) but they do offer a great combination of speed, low noise levels, and price per Gigabtye. I was throughly impressed with the latest 500GB model and thought it would be a good choice for a storage drive when matched with the Raptor. In regards to the Crucial DDR2 memory, we are finding it to be an excellent choice once again based on the price to performance ratios in early testing (easily doing DDR2-1140 at 4-4-4-12 timings with 2.25V on the P35 boards). By the way, both of these products were purchased and were not supplied to us for reviews. We do go out and buy components that we identify as being interesting for our readership. ;) Just wish we had the blog sections working so we could discuss/provide details quicker.
Most of the choices are made with input from the other editors. I know some of them (Wes and Gary) have at least done some preliminary testing with parts that are mentioned in this article. Gary specifically recommended the Samsung drives as being worthy of inclusion. The Ballistix RAM is (if I have this right) Micron D9, which makes it roughly the same as most of the other D9 RAM when it comes to running faster than the rated speed.
In any of the first four situations in the article, would adding a third-party soundcard add any performance gains, or have better quality? Say you added an x-fi to the striker extreme. How does the onboard compare to what you'd get with the x-fi?
Depends on if you're running XP or Vista and if you want to jump through hoops in Vista. At this point, I would rate a sound card as an optional accessory, pending fallout from the Vista update. I have to think that Vista is hurting Creative, since it sort of leveled the playing field.
quote: The 5600+ gets the nod over the more expensive 6000+ due to the favorable situation with AMD's on-die memory controller for this processor. The added cache of the 6000+ generally doesn't improve performance enough to warrant the extra money - investing the money in other areas will generally help more.
I thought the cache was the same and only the clock speed was different. Confused.
yep indeed correct, so many readers and yet only few that notice this wrong statement
The 5600+ gets the nod over the more expensive 6000+ due to the favorable situation with AMD's on-die memory controller for this processor. The added cache of the 6000+ generally doesn't improve performance enough to warrant the extra money
the 5600 has 2mb cache and a 2800 clock
the 6000 has 2mb cache and a 3000 clock
main difference is current tdp 125W, will change in a few months to 89W, from that moment a 6000 will be a nice buy / competitor against e6600 unless you oc offcourse.
All in all, I liked your guide. Welcome aboard to Anandtech :)
Even for a "base" high-end configuration, your case and peripheral recommendations are simply not acceptable.
The Apevia Aspire X-Cruiser is a riced-out, poorly ventilated, cheaply made and simply obnoxious case. Why not recommend a much more sensible option with better ventilation and construction? You can get many quality cases sans power supply for $60. The Antec recommended in the mainstream configuration is much better suited to a high-end build (although I would still like to see something more sensible and less noisy).
Similarly, the Creative Labs 7.1 speaker system you recommended (actually the Inspire P7800, not I-Trigue 3300) is just junk. There is absolutely no reason to waste $80 on a crap 7.1 speaker system. A system with that many speakers should be done right or not at all. Also, THX and manufacturer's power ratings are just marketing mean nothing to anyone who knows jack about audio. Just recommend a decent 2.1 system that at least has tweeters. The market for real stereo systems with actual receivers starts around $250 these days. Even a low end HTIB (I like Onkyo) will outperform any computer speakers on the market.
"The Corsair CMPSU-620HX is a solid offering from a company long known for providing excellent power supplies" - I wasn't aware that Corsair had power supplies at all before a couple of years ago. Also, Why the PC Power and Cooling product over something like a high end Seasonic?
Now, for the worst part... Thanks to the assistance of the Anandtech forums, I finally found a case that I could put into a business environment that wasn't filled with useless lights, very tasteless appointments on the exterior, or cartoon characters on the side. Antec's cases have been de-improving in terms of accessibility (witness the Sonata II and it's funky air flow system that is a pain in the rear and doesn't seem to improve temps). So I was referred to the I-Star S-8 Storm series. An excellent case, with excellent accessories (Hot swap bays, removable caddys, redundant power supplies) that retails for around $50-$60. No spiderman face, no crazy lights, and the fastest assembly I have ever done. There is one downside, in that they don't like to give you enough screws of any one type, and hopefully they will improve that. Luckily, I have tons of screws left over from other systems built for customers over the years.
I believe that part of the problem stems from reviewers praising really toy-like cases that have all of these useless features. Yes, the 14 year old gamer might think they're cool. Heck, even some 25 year old gamers may think they're cool. But I think the great majority of people would consider them to be tacky. So, how about a compromise: offer up alternatives for each. One with all the glitter, and the other with a more clean look. We should encourage manufacturers to worry more about ease of assembly and functionality, and something that can be sold to a business customer.
hahah this is so true most pc case are so tacky, this is why Apple can steal your money with it's well thought out designs.
I still wonder why these plastics take so much space in retail stores.
The attraction is a well thought out pc case with high prices that you can at least get away with like a Lian Li.
Producing cheap plastic case to cut some cost is not a bad idea, but at least hire some designers.
Most people have considered PC Power and Cooling the best PSU maker for years. They have just been so expensive, not many people usually buy them. They are kind of like the BMW of power supplies, because they don't cut any corners in the design, but you pay for that in the bottom line price. Since the other companies are now charging similar prices to PC P&C, it is much easier to consider them now. Ofcourse PC Power and Cooling was just purchased by OCZ this month (MAY 2007), so hopefully their quality won't go down to the level of OCZ power supplies.
It's always nice to see Anandtech updating it's price guides, and if the new editor/writer follows Jarred's example then I'm sure he will do fine.
A few things to maybe keep in mind: I echo the feelings of some others that a $5000 machine needs to have a soundcard. In fact, I would think it makes MUCH more sense to recommend a soundcard rather than a set of speakers for such a system. Next, why keep mentioning overclocking in the article and never advice a aftermarket HSF? I would think every PC in the $2000+ range would be well served, even if only to run it in a low-noise configuration and keep low temps. I assume a midrange guide will appear next, probably after P35 arrives. I hope to see another Overclocking subconfiguration in that atricle, since many of us to OC and the component choices can be rather different.
Finally, @ Jarred - nice fancy new title and post sig. Hopefully thought you won't be only working on notebooks and displays in the future however, even if you are passing on the Guide articles. I know many of the more unconventional articles you and Gary write are some of the best stuff to appear on the site, and I'd hate to loose you to only reviewing the new Asus notebook or Dell LCD.
You're absolutely right, both about the soundcard and the HSF. In the $5k system, though, we did include the water cooling solution - but point taken about the cooling in general terms. I'd venture that few people at the $2k range are using stock HSF solutions.
For the next guide, I'm thinking that there may be some tweaks - you're right about the overclocking part.
I'm still managing editor (i.e. posting most other articles, doing final proof-reads, etc.) so no worries. Displays and laptops are simply my primary area of focus these days, just like Derek's focus is GPUs and Gary's primary focus is... well, everything. :) I'll still contribute opinions and such to the Buyers' Guides as well (and Gary deserves plenty of credit for the recommendations in this and other Guides if you didn't know that).
Page 3 states that "While RAID will not markedly improve performance for the average user, it can improve either reliability (RAID 5, RAID 1), or data capacity (RAID 0)"
I don't see how RAID 0 improves data capacity. Sure, it will make multiple drives appear as one volume, but the capacity is not improved. Not only that, but the reliability is decreased, as a failure of one drive leads to loss of data from both.
That's what was meant by improving "data capacity" although it probably could have been worded better. It does improve performance in certain applications to the point that a few people might find it useful (people that worry about the latest ORB results for example....)
Last I checked, they weren't readily available yet. Considering we explicitly mention this in the text on the first and last pages (as well as in-between), I'm pretty sure we've covered the situation. The official launch is next week, at which time all the websites respecting the launch date (Newegg and ZipZoomFly are usually the benchmark here) will start selling them. I'm not sure most of the sites listing the boards have them in stock and ready to ship today as it stands; if they can't be trusted to follow Intel's launch date, can their inventory claims be trusted?
Quote " Audigy users may get support in the future, but at present they are left out in the cold. "
Man what a drag that Vista has been out now four months and still there are issues with sound cards, guess I'll wait some more before upgrading the operating system...
I don't see why the SLI GeForce GTS is not a good investment. The performance seen in many benchmarks definitely have 40% edge over a single Ultra. GTS 320MB SLI is also very affordable and have the aforementioned performance on resolutions less than 1900 while bearing more performance/$ than ultra/GTX
Besides, if you're so cool that you can pirate the software, I'm sure you can handle doing a little bit of math to subtract the cost from the total. I have to say that anyone looking to stiff The Man by stealing $120-$200 of software on a $5000 system needs some counseling about what's important in life.
On the concluding page is a list of soundcards (though very little is said about them).
The Auzentech card has a name though: It's the X-Meridian 7.1 which you can see by going to their website. Not sure why you list it as "AZT-XM71" since I've never seen it listed that way except as the part number part of the heading at NewEgg.
I'm sure it's an awesome card, btw, as I have their X-Plosion DTS 7.1 card and love it. It's been flawless for me in gaming and offers excellence in sound reproduction for games, movies, mp3s, etc.
I been fighting the urge to just purchase this monitor since price is pretty high. But I hear nothing but good things about it and this seals the deal..
How close are we to a high-def drive being affordable on the PC? I could see myself watching high-def movies on a 24inch monitor if the drives we in the $100 range.
Please don't mix RMS power ratings and Peak Power ratings in the same review. Use RMS only, its the proper standard for high end audio, peak power ratings are inflated and normally inaccurate, and should only be used on the cheap plastic speakers sold at Walmart as technical specifications are meaningless for them. The figure you quoted is not accurate for this system, you quoted what might be thought to be peak to peak power but actually is not. RMS=.707 peak, peak to peak= 2x peak. Anandtech has normally maintained a relatively high technical standard, please don't change that by pandering to those to whom big numbers are more important than quality.
We don't normally spend a lot of effort on speaker reviews. The Logitech speakers are all very good for their price range. If you want home theater quality, we don't tend to venture into that market. I'm quite sure there are any number of people out there that know far more about speakers and ratings and such than I do (and probably Dave as well).
Any idea of the noise level for the Antec Nine Hundred? How does it compare to other case like the quiet Thermaltake Aguila?
Now I know you don't recommend the HD 2900XT right now but I was wondering what PSU you would chose for a power aungry card like that using PCIe 2.0 connectors? The Enermax Infinity 720W looks good but do you have any other PCIe 2.0 PSU you would recommend?
I don't know if it's any good (probably), but you might try the Antec TPQ-850 is a 2x8-pin and 2x6-pin PCIe 2.0 PSU. That's the most reasonably priced model I've seen. If you plan on quad core and overclocking along with 2900 CrossFire, you had better get as much PSU as you can find. I think you could probably break 850W power draw with such a configuration.
I would recommend a Corsair 620HX for your configuration. It was the quietest PSU tested by SPCR. I have the 520 watt model and have nothing but good things to say about it.
Sort of like we mentioned on the base configuration of page 6, you mean? Except there is no way I would even think of running quad core with 2900 XT CrossFire with that PSU. A single 8800 GTX or 2900 XT? Sure, but not two.
A lot of sites seem to prove you wrong in addition to the ones I linked to. You need to get your meter checked or that Dell PS is REALLY inefficient. All of these sites measure power drawn by the SYSTEM at the AC outlet. None of the 8800GTX SLI configurations use more than 500 watts under full load and the R600 Crossfire setup uses 522 watts under full load.
The big question is whether or not you plan on overclocking. I just did some quick tests, and taking a quad core QX6700 chip from 2.67 GHz to 3.33 GHz increases the power draw by about 60W. I know that if I went out and got a QX6700, I would overclock it at least that far. For that matter, if I got a Q6600, I would probably shoot for a similar clock speed.
At stock voltage, stock speeds, the highest power draw I got with CrossFire X1950 XTX and a QX6700 (with three hard drives in the system) was "only" 488W. Could such a system run with a 520W power supply? Perhaps, provided it's a really high-quality power supply. Personally, I like to have a bit of leeway, so I would say 620W minimum for such a configuration.
Looking at your Bit-tech link, it appears that a Radeon HD 2900 XT consumes ~70W more power than a Radeon X1950 XTX, and in CrossFire mode the difference was 145W (worst-case). 488W + 145W = 633W... Eureka! Now, are you still going to want to run such a configuration with a 620W power supply? You could try, and it might even work depending on how often you reach maximum load, but again I prefer a little leeway. Without overclocking, I can easily see quad core and 2900 XT CrossFire breaking 600W on a regular basis (or at least approaching it). Throw in overclocking (~80W) and water-cooling (10W-30W - or more - depending on pump), and we are now at over 700W. Sure enough, that's exactly what I measured with the Dell XPS 720H2C (add a few more watts for the additional memory).
I personally follow an 80% rule: just to be safe, I don't exceed 80% of the rated power supply wattage. (this is especially important if you have power supplies with multiple 12V rails, as you almost certainly won't be drawing maximum power from each rail.) That means if I'm going to be drying up to 600W of power, I would want at least at a 750W power supply. If I'm going to overclock, I would want something in the 850W+ range.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php...">It seems that the TEC inside your Dell is drawing a lot of power. That's why your power consumption is so high. A power supply wattage rating is the amount of power that the PS can deliver to the components and not how much power it can draw from the wall. Since we have to account for efficiency, 800W * 0.8 = 640 is the power consumption of the components inside. Take away the power consumption of the TEC (640 - 120) and the power consumption of the components is about 520 watts.
Depends on what you throw in there. I've got a system with an overclocked QX6700 and 8800 Ultra SLI with water-cooling, multiple hard drives, and basically about every high-end option you can find. I've measured peak power draw of nearly 800W, and a stock HD 2900 XT uses more power than an 8800 GTX by about 20W at load. Overclock two of those cards, and yes I think you can break 850W power draw.
FWIW, idle power draw is 475W on the system, putting 100% load on the CPU takes that up to 625W, and 100% CPU while running 3DMark06 put it at something close to 750-775W (with the average being more like 700W). If I were to manually overclock the GPUs, then I'm sure I could break 800W.
I still call BS on 800. 475 watts idling? That's a little too extreme don't you think? Did you even read the sites I linked to? And what are you measuring with? Your @SS?
Sitting next to me is a Dell XPS 720 H2C measured at the outlet with a Kill-A-Watt device. The CPU is running at 3.43 GHz with 1.550V. Why should I need to read your links when I've got a system right in front of me generating those numbers? But of course you're right: your linked article must be more accurate than anything we could measure in-house. The Dell has a 1000W power supply, and I'm sure Dell is just being cautious, like they are with their 375W PSUs in the XPS 410.
PS: My ass measured a power output of 1.21GW last I checked. I have to be careful as I don't want to accidentally warp myself through time if I go eat Mexican food. You see, I also have a flux capacitor hardwired into my spine, just in case....
Overclocking + overvolting will jack up the power draw of the CPU quite a bit. Stock voltage is supposed to be 1.300V (I think) and overclocked it's 1.550V, plus it's running at 3.43 GHz instead of 2.67 GHz. Throw in a water-cooling setup, three hard drives, 4GB RAM, and you get quite a bit more power draw than a stock 4x4 SLI setup.
Hard drives draw about 10 watts each. That's 30 watts. Each extra memory module will draw about 5 more watts. That's 20 watts. The water pump should draw no more than 10 watts and the fans about 5 watts each. Assuming you're using 2 120mm fans, the extra power draw under a worse case secenario would be 90 watts. So now we move onto the CPU. Are you seriously going to tell me that an overclocked Core 2 Quad consumes 300 watts under load? A Smithfield barely consumed half of 300 watts. I think any CPU would explode if it consumed 300 watts.
QX6700 idle @ 1.60 GHz = 195W (sitting at the desktop)
QX6700 100% CPU load @ 2.67 GHz = 285W (running Folding@Home SMP)
QX6700 100% CPU + 3DMark06 = 488W (Folding@Home SMP and 3DMark06)
QX6700 100% GPU = 441W (running just 3DMark06)
The same system with the processor now overclocked to a 1333 FSB:
QX6700 idle @ 2.00 GHz = 250W (sitting at the desktop)
QX6700 100% CPU load @ 3.33 GHz = 341W (running Folding@Home SMP)
QX6700 100% CPU + 3DMark06 = 545W (Folding@Home SMP and 3DMark06)
QX6700 100% GPU = 476W (running just 3DMark06)
As I mentioned below, if you were to put Radeon HD 2900 XT cards in place of the X1950 XTX cards, it appears the total power draw when running 3D applications would go up almost 150W.
Please stop reccomending computer speakers for high end systems. Computer speakers are simply sub-par. Anytime you are spending more than $100 on speakers, people should be looking at Sound&Vision, not Anandtech. Please start advising people to look into real audio solutions rather than the shit for tweets on computer speakers.
My recommendation for computers would be a sub $100 2-speaker combination for whenever you want to show someone else something on the computer and then burn the money on a good set of headphones. The Sennheiser HD650 for example is excellent for the non-price sensitive, and the Koss Headset SB45 is OK for its very low price.
I have to admit that I am only dissappointed as I've just purchased my new build a few days ago (and therefore makes this article impracticle for me).
Other than that - a great article with the usual clear, reasonable explanations for choices made; hey, a few of my components even made the list!
I just wanted to add that you might consider ammending the ASUS P5N32-E mobo to the alternative from the "Striker Extreme" for those who perhaps want the same core experience of that lineup without some of the "extra" features. That is, unless there is some problem with this mobo, in which case I would need to:
a.) hear from you about any problems with the board
b.) return to vendor from whence it came
c.) purchase new board from list
At any rate, thanks and keep it up! (Oh, and welcome aboard Dave!)
Say hello to our new contributing editor, Dave Robinet! As always, we welcome your comments and feedback, and hopefully we will be able to get new Buyers' Guides out in a more timely fashion. Try to go easy on him, as we don't want to scare him way after one pilot article. Or just flame away as usual.... ;)
Howdy Dave and Jarred,
I'm always curious as to what Anandtech recommend for high end or low budget, but how come the high end system never include a LianLi case. Ever sinces the 8800gtx came out with it's arm's length, Lianli case is ready to answer this with it's modular approach.
Also a Lianli's case is fancy on the eyes don't you think?
Just my 2cents, i owned 2 Lianli cases and i'm a big fan of it.
Lian Li cases are great, and that was suggested by a couple of other editors. Cases (assuming they haven't made any catastrophic errors in terms of airflow or quality) generally come down to preference - they could just have easily been included in the Guide.
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dilbertcompguy - Thursday, March 13, 2008 - link
Since when are these computer speakers $5000? Am I missing something here or is this paragraph from like 4 years ago?Super Nade - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - link
While the Silencer is a good unit, there are several less expensive alternatives that are built equally good if not better than this one.Some that come to mind are:
-Ultra X-Pro series (Andyson)
-Silverstone Zeus ST56ZF (can run 8800GTX SLI with NO problems), 75ZF (Etasis)
-Seasonic S12/M12 nad Corsair
-Zippy GSM series (not less expensive but will out-regulate Seasonic built units)
Maybe you could have offered at least two or three options. Good job though!
S-N, OCForums
Dave Robinet - Thursday, May 31, 2007 - link
Thanks a lot, Super Nade.I actually had the Silverstone in there as one of the original suggestions, but Gary Key (having had the benefit of testing a huge quantity of these in the past) said he'd send me a bunch of dead ones if I included it in the buyer's guide. Not wanting my wife to have a bunch of dead power supplies to yell at me over, I backed off. :) Personally, though, I've not had one go South on me yet.
Your choices of supplies are really good - any of those could have been chosen for the guide. People will pick at the X-Pro's efficiency rating a bit, but honestly, the rest of it is brand preference.
dave
Super Nade - Saturday, June 2, 2007 - link
Dave,Thank you for taking the time to read through this. :)
Silverstone employ several OEM's, Enhance, Etasis, Seventeam and a relatively new but interesting Impervio Electronics from Taiwan. Not all of them are built equal. The Etasis and the Seventeam builds are based off of server platforms and are less likely to cause problems. I have not heard of mass failure but there have been problems with coil while on the DA and OP series. IMO, it does not warrant having to completely exclude Silverstone from the mix. ;)
Best wishes,
Super Nade, OCForums.
overzealot - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - link
I saw no such thing on the previous page. You only said that you'd choose MCE for 32bit, or Vista because everyone will change to it.
I know Vista is the future, but I live in the present - and when I spend this much on a computer I want it to work as well as it can RIGHT NOW.
Can we have an honest pro/con shootout between XP64 and Vista64?
I'm happy to start off with a few:
Vista
Pro:
Aeroglass
Better disk caching
DX10
Con:
8800 drivers still suck
No EAX, no ALchemy for anything but X-Fi
Some games/programs won't work, others don't work well
Larger footprint
Older hardware doesn't have drivers
XP64
Pro:
Drivers are as stable as XP
Games run as well as XP
Con:
Some obscure apps don't work (VoiceChanger is the only one I can think of off-hand)
Older hardware doesn't have drivers
No DX10
Personally I'm willing to sacrifice DX10 and Aero for EAX and speed now. Are you?
JarredWalton - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - link
Most of the cons of Vista are applicable to both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Our point is that if you're going to get DX10 hardware and a high-end system, you might as well bite the bullet and move to Vista. If you're moving to Vista, you might as well make the jump to 64-bits as well. My understanding is that the XP-64 drivers are still not as robust or available as the XP-32 drivers, so if you're going to have some driver issues anyway... might as well go the whole hog and run Vista! :)FWIW, I'm only running Vista under dual-boot mode or on certain test systems. It's okay, but there are enough nitpicks against it that I'm not ready to make a complete switch just yet.
overzealot - Friday, June 1, 2007 - link
Availability is a problem, but only as much as with Vista.They're robust, have been since about 2 months after release.
jzodda - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - link
We all know that what we consider to be "computer monitors" these days stops at 30" unless you are willing to shell out more then the price of a high end system just for the display alone.There is one larger display that I think bears serious consideration for a high end rig. Its the Westhinghouse LVM-37W3 37" 1080p display. The W3 version is the one that you typically will not find in stores, and makes an flat out amazing monitor.
It has an 8 ms response and 8 bit Super MVA panel made by Chi-Mei, and plays games at 1920x1080 very easily if you have a good vid card. 37" of screen space makes the 30" look small and the 24" look puny by comparison.
Its also priced around the same as the 30" screens mentioned, and usually comes in somewhat cheaper, especially when there are good deals on shipping. There is a huge thread on this display here. Amazing find, and Maximum PC recently did a little write up on this display and they loved it.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1088497">http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1088497
Kougar - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Surprised me to see this recommended, and I got to say great call. I have one of these that just arrived infront of me, and to my surprise it has been modified to offer 2 8-pin + 2 6-pin PCIe connectors for overclocked HD 2900 Crossfire setups. You might wish to update the guide with this info. ;)I guess it explains why this PSU was certified for R600 Crossfire use, while (The otherwise excellent) 850watt GameXstream PSUs couldn't take it. Only the $285 1010watt GameXStream model PSU made the certification for R600 Crossfire, and it costs $85 higher still than the Quad Silencer. The high price is for a product that offers as much oomph as products outside it's class, and it can now power any kind of SLI or Crossfire setup that can be thrown at it.
Rike - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Crucial Tracer Ballistix Rebate is a one per household rebate. If you get two, you'll need to work the system some how to get both rebates. It's a great deal, but you might want to warn folks up front.rtrkudos - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
You were wrong on the Dell 30" LCD. The newer HC model they ship now has a grey-to-grey of 8ms which is what matters for gaming. They never updated their website to the newer specs.JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
I made some clarifications on the LCD selections. Having personally used both the old Dell 3007WFP and one of the new "high color" 30" LCDs, I'm pretty comfortable in saying that very few people would actually noticed the difference in practical use. I know I couldn't. Besides, the 3007WFP-HC actually costs $1500 as opposed to $1300.mostlyprudent - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
While I very much enjoy Anandtech's Buyer's guides, I have noticed lately a disconnect between what is recommended in the Buyer's guides and what is reviewed in the other articles. For example, I do not think I have ever seen a review of the Samsung hard drives, yet they show up quite often in recent buyer's guides. Also, the Crucial Balistix used in the ultra high end system. Have we seen a review of these?My point is that if I were to go back through Anandtech motherboard, hard drive and memory reviews - pick out the best performers/editor's choice winners - I would come up with a very different system than what you recommend in Buyer's Guides.
If your goign to recommend a different motherboard, hard drive or memory from what your recent reviews have identified as the "cream of the crop," then give me some benchmarks or other details (not general statements) that demonstrate why.
Gary Key - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - link
We will have the Samsung drives in a review in June. They are not the fastest drives per say in the benchmarks (close enough as not to matter in most applications) but they do offer a great combination of speed, low noise levels, and price per Gigabtye. I was throughly impressed with the latest 500GB model and thought it would be a good choice for a storage drive when matched with the Raptor. In regards to the Crucial DDR2 memory, we are finding it to be an excellent choice once again based on the price to performance ratios in early testing (easily doing DDR2-1140 at 4-4-4-12 timings with 2.25V on the P35 boards). By the way, both of these products were purchased and were not supplied to us for reviews. We do go out and buy components that we identify as being interesting for our readership. ;) Just wish we had the blog sections working so we could discuss/provide details quicker.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Most of the choices are made with input from the other editors. I know some of them (Wes and Gary) have at least done some preliminary testing with parts that are mentioned in this article. Gary specifically recommended the Samsung drives as being worthy of inclusion. The Ballistix RAM is (if I have this right) Micron D9, which makes it roughly the same as most of the other D9 RAM when it comes to running faster than the rated speed.Comdrpopnfresh - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
In any of the first four situations in the article, would adding a third-party soundcard add any performance gains, or have better quality? Say you added an x-fi to the striker extreme. How does the onboard compare to what you'd get with the x-fi?JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Depends on if you're running XP or Vista and if you want to jump through hoops in Vista. At this point, I would rate a sound card as an optional accessory, pending fallout from the Vista update. I have to think that Vista is hurting Creative, since it sort of leveled the playing field.hubajube - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
In the article:I thought the cache was the same and only the clock speed was different. Confused.
duploxxx - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
yep indeed correct, so many readers and yet only few that notice this wrong statementThe 5600+ gets the nod over the more expensive 6000+ due to the favorable situation with AMD's on-die memory controller for this processor. The added cache of the 6000+ generally doesn't improve performance enough to warrant the extra money
the 5600 has 2mb cache and a 2800 clock
the 6000 has 2mb cache and a 3000 clock
main difference is current tdp 125W, will change in a few months to 89W, from that moment a 6000 will be a nice buy / competitor against e6600 unless you oc offcourse.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
My bad - I got the 5400/5600 confused with the 6000 situation. I guess there's no "5800+" 512K 3.0 GHz part out there. :)Dantzig - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
All in all, I liked your guide. Welcome aboard to Anandtech :)Even for a "base" high-end configuration, your case and peripheral recommendations are simply not acceptable.
The Apevia Aspire X-Cruiser is a riced-out, poorly ventilated, cheaply made and simply obnoxious case. Why not recommend a much more sensible option with better ventilation and construction? You can get many quality cases sans power supply for $60. The Antec recommended in the mainstream configuration is much better suited to a high-end build (although I would still like to see something more sensible and less noisy).
Similarly, the Creative Labs 7.1 speaker system you recommended (actually the Inspire P7800, not I-Trigue 3300) is just junk. There is absolutely no reason to waste $80 on a crap 7.1 speaker system. A system with that many speakers should be done right or not at all. Also, THX and manufacturer's power ratings are just marketing mean nothing to anyone who knows jack about audio. Just recommend a decent 2.1 system that at least has tweeters. The market for real stereo systems with actual receivers starts around $250 these days. Even a low end HTIB (I like Onkyo) will outperform any computer speakers on the market.
takumsawsherman - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
So here are a couple of additional comments."The Corsair CMPSU-620HX is a solid offering from a company long known for providing excellent power supplies" - I wasn't aware that Corsair had power supplies at all before a couple of years ago. Also, Why the PC Power and Cooling product over something like a high end Seasonic?
Now, for the worst part... Thanks to the assistance of the Anandtech forums, I finally found a case that I could put into a business environment that wasn't filled with useless lights, very tasteless appointments on the exterior, or cartoon characters on the side. Antec's cases have been de-improving in terms of accessibility (witness the Sonata II and it's funky air flow system that is a pain in the rear and doesn't seem to improve temps). So I was referred to the I-Star S-8 Storm series. An excellent case, with excellent accessories (Hot swap bays, removable caddys, redundant power supplies) that retails for around $50-$60. No spiderman face, no crazy lights, and the fastest assembly I have ever done. There is one downside, in that they don't like to give you enough screws of any one type, and hopefully they will improve that. Luckily, I have tons of screws left over from other systems built for customers over the years.
I believe that part of the problem stems from reviewers praising really toy-like cases that have all of these useless features. Yes, the 14 year old gamer might think they're cool. Heck, even some 25 year old gamers may think they're cool. But I think the great majority of people would consider them to be tacky. So, how about a compromise: offer up alternatives for each. One with all the glitter, and the other with a more clean look. We should encourage manufacturers to worry more about ease of assembly and functionality, and something that can be sold to a business customer.
anandtech02148 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
hahah this is so true most pc case are so tacky, this is why Apple can steal your money with it's well thought out designs.I still wonder why these plastics take so much space in retail stores.
The attraction is a well thought out pc case with high prices that you can at least get away with like a Lian Li.
Producing cheap plastic case to cut some cost is not a bad idea, but at least hire some designers.
Martimus - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Most people have considered PC Power and Cooling the best PSU maker for years. They have just been so expensive, not many people usually buy them. They are kind of like the BMW of power supplies, because they don't cut any corners in the design, but you pay for that in the bottom line price. Since the other companies are now charging similar prices to PC P&C, it is much easier to consider them now. Ofcourse PC Power and Cooling was just purchased by OCZ this month (MAY 2007), so hopefully their quality won't go down to the level of OCZ power supplies.Sunrise089 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
It's always nice to see Anandtech updating it's price guides, and if the new editor/writer follows Jarred's example then I'm sure he will do fine.A few things to maybe keep in mind: I echo the feelings of some others that a $5000 machine needs to have a soundcard. In fact, I would think it makes MUCH more sense to recommend a soundcard rather than a set of speakers for such a system. Next, why keep mentioning overclocking in the article and never advice a aftermarket HSF? I would think every PC in the $2000+ range would be well served, even if only to run it in a low-noise configuration and keep low temps. I assume a midrange guide will appear next, probably after P35 arrives. I hope to see another Overclocking subconfiguration in that atricle, since many of us to OC and the component choices can be rather different.
Finally, @ Jarred - nice fancy new title and post sig. Hopefully thought you won't be only working on notebooks and displays in the future however, even if you are passing on the Guide articles. I know many of the more unconventional articles you and Gary write are some of the best stuff to appear on the site, and I'd hate to loose you to only reviewing the new Asus notebook or Dell LCD.
Dave Robinet - Thursday, May 31, 2007 - link
Thanks for the welcome. :)You're absolutely right, both about the soundcard and the HSF. In the $5k system, though, we did include the water cooling solution - but point taken about the cooling in general terms. I'd venture that few people at the $2k range are using stock HSF solutions.
For the next guide, I'm thinking that there may be some tweaks - you're right about the overclocking part.
Thanks again!
dave
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Thanks,I'm still managing editor (i.e. posting most other articles, doing final proof-reads, etc.) so no worries. Displays and laptops are simply my primary area of focus these days, just like Derek's focus is GPUs and Gary's primary focus is... well, everything. :) I'll still contribute opinions and such to the Buyers' Guides as well (and Gary deserves plenty of credit for the recommendations in this and other Guides if you didn't know that).
takumsawsherman - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Page 3 states that "While RAID will not markedly improve performance for the average user, it can improve either reliability (RAID 5, RAID 1), or data capacity (RAID 0)"I don't see how RAID 0 improves data capacity. Sure, it will make multiple drives appear as one volume, but the capacity is not improved. Not only that, but the reliability is decreased, as a failure of one drive leads to loss of data from both.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
That's what was meant by improving "data capacity" although it probably could have been worded better. It does improve performance in certain applications to the point that a few people might find it useful (people that worry about the latest ORB results for example....)Latyshev - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
In the main review you are clearly goiung for SLI. But in the "alternative" list you never mention any new P35 boards, which are amasing peformers.
How come?
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Last I checked, they weren't readily available yet. Considering we explicitly mention this in the text on the first and last pages (as well as in-between), I'm pretty sure we've covered the situation. The official launch is next week, at which time all the websites respecting the launch date (Newegg and ZipZoomFly are usually the benchmark here) will start selling them. I'm not sure most of the sites listing the boards have them in stock and ready to ship today as it stands; if they can't be trusted to follow Intel's launch date, can their inventory claims be trusted?Latyshev - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Ah, sorry, i didnt read the article in detail, just looked over the major points. Thank you for clarification.Tuffrabbit - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Quote " Audigy users may get support in the future, but at present they are left out in the cold. "Man what a drag that Vista has been out now four months and still there are issues with sound cards, guess I'll wait some more before upgrading the operating system...
AnnihilatorX - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
I don't see why the SLI GeForce GTS is not a good investment. The performance seen in many benchmarks definitely have 40% edge over a single Ultra. GTS 320MB SLI is also very affordable and have the aforementioned performance on resolutions less than 1900 while bearing more performance/$ than ultra/GTXTilmitt - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
There's no point in including the operating system cost, most of us pirate it. And rightly so!punko - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Pirate? I don't think so.Dual boot machine: Linux/legit windows for work/play
If you're spending the money for a "high end" machine, there is no reason not to go fully legit.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Besides, if you're so cool that you can pirate the software, I'm sure you can handle doing a little bit of math to subtract the cost from the total. I have to say that anyone looking to stiff The Man by stealing $120-$200 of software on a $5000 system needs some counseling about what's important in life.Martimus - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Speak for yourself. I stopped pirating software once I got a real job. When I can't afford to buy the software, I just don't buy it now.yacoub - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
On the concluding page is a list of soundcards (though very little is said about them).The Auzentech card has a name though: It's the X-Meridian 7.1 which you can see by going to their website. Not sure why you list it as "AZT-XM71" since I've never seen it listed that way except as the part number part of the heading at NewEgg.
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-meridian....">http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-meridian....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
I'm sure it's an awesome card, btw, as I have their X-Plosion DTS 7.1 card and love it. It's been flawless for me in gaming and offers excellence in sound reproduction for games, movies, mp3s, etc.
yacoub - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
If you are buying two GTS 640MB, shouldn't the $30 rebate also be counted twice? (I'm looking at the first system.)JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Yup. Sorry - missed doubling that one.Dave Robinet - Thursday, May 31, 2007 - link
Actually, no - rebate terms are "one per household":http://images10.newegg.com/uploadfilesfornewegg/re...">Rebate Details
imaheadcase - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
I been fighting the urge to just purchase this monitor since price is pretty high. But I hear nothing but good things about it and this seals the deal..1080p rez? Yes please! :D
Crittias - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
How close are we to a high-def drive being affordable on the PC? I could see myself watching high-def movies on a 24inch monitor if the drives we in the $100 range.rgsaunders - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Please don't mix RMS power ratings and Peak Power ratings in the same review. Use RMS only, its the proper standard for high end audio, peak power ratings are inflated and normally inaccurate, and should only be used on the cheap plastic speakers sold at Walmart as technical specifications are meaningless for them. The figure you quoted is not accurate for this system, you quoted what might be thought to be peak to peak power but actually is not. RMS=.707 peak, peak to peak= 2x peak. Anandtech has normally maintained a relatively high technical standard, please don't change that by pandering to those to whom big numbers are more important than quality.JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
We don't normally spend a lot of effort on speaker reviews. The Logitech speakers are all very good for their price range. If you want home theater quality, we don't tend to venture into that market. I'm quite sure there are any number of people out there that know far more about speakers and ratings and such than I do (and probably Dave as well).Le Québécois - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Any idea of the noise level for the Antec Nine Hundred? How does it compare to other case like the quiet Thermaltake Aguila?Now I know you don't recommend the HD 2900XT right now but I was wondering what PSU you would chose for a power aungry card like that using PCIe 2.0 connectors? The Enermax Infinity 720W looks good but do you have any other PCIe 2.0 PSU you would recommend?
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
I don't know if it's any good (probably), but you might try the Antec TPQ-850 is a 2x8-pin and 2x6-pin PCIe 2.0 PSU. That's the most reasonably priced model I've seen. If you plan on quad core and overclocking along with 2900 CrossFire, you had better get as much PSU as you can find. I think you could probably break 850W power draw with such a configuration.CK804 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php...">One last thing to add.I would recommend a Corsair 620HX for your configuration. It was the quietest PSU tested by SPCR. I have the 520 watt model and have nothing but good things to say about it.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Sort of like we mentioned on the base configuration of page 6, you mean? Except there is no way I would even think of running quad core with 2900 XT CrossFire with that PSU. A single 8800 GTX or 2900 XT? Sure, but not two.CK804 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
A lot of sites seem to prove you wrong in addition to the ones I linked to. You need to get your meter checked or that Dell PS is REALLY inefficient. All of these sites measure power drawn by the SYSTEM at the AC outlet. None of the 8800GTX SLI configurations use more than 500 watts under full load and the R600 Crossfire setup uses 522 watts under full load.http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=332&type=...">One.
http://techreport.com/reviews/2007q1/geforce-8800-...">Two.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/05/16/r600_a...">Three.
http://www.hwupgrade.com/articles/video/13/the-nvi...">Four.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2873...">Now check this out from YOUR OWN SITE. Do you really think that an upgrade to a quad core and another 8800GTX will pull another 500 watts?
JarredWalton - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - link
The big question is whether or not you plan on overclocking. I just did some quick tests, and taking a quad core QX6700 chip from 2.67 GHz to 3.33 GHz increases the power draw by about 60W. I know that if I went out and got a QX6700, I would overclock it at least that far. For that matter, if I got a Q6600, I would probably shoot for a similar clock speed.At stock voltage, stock speeds, the highest power draw I got with CrossFire X1950 XTX and a QX6700 (with three hard drives in the system) was "only" 488W. Could such a system run with a 520W power supply? Perhaps, provided it's a really high-quality power supply. Personally, I like to have a bit of leeway, so I would say 620W minimum for such a configuration.
Looking at your Bit-tech link, it appears that a Radeon HD 2900 XT consumes ~70W more power than a Radeon X1950 XTX, and in CrossFire mode the difference was 145W (worst-case). 488W + 145W = 633W... Eureka! Now, are you still going to want to run such a configuration with a 620W power supply? You could try, and it might even work depending on how often you reach maximum load, but again I prefer a little leeway. Without overclocking, I can easily see quad core and 2900 XT CrossFire breaking 600W on a regular basis (or at least approaching it). Throw in overclocking (~80W) and water-cooling (10W-30W - or more - depending on pump), and we are now at over 700W. Sure enough, that's exactly what I measured with the Dell XPS 720H2C (add a few more watts for the additional memory).
I personally follow an 80% rule: just to be safe, I don't exceed 80% of the rated power supply wattage. (this is especially important if you have power supplies with multiple 12V rails, as you almost certainly won't be drawing maximum power from each rail.) That means if I'm going to be drying up to 600W of power, I would want at least at a 750W power supply. If I'm going to overclock, I would want something in the 850W+ range.
CK804 - Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - link
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php...">It seems that the TEC inside your Dell is drawing a lot of power. That's why your power consumption is so high. A power supply wattage rating is the amount of power that the PS can deliver to the components and not how much power it can draw from the wall. Since we have to account for efficiency, 800W * 0.8 = 640 is the power consumption of the components inside. Take away the power consumption of the TEC (640 - 120) and the power consumption of the components is about 520 watts.CK804 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36...">Are you sure about that breaking 850 watts?http://www.abxzone.com/forums/cases-psus-mods/1064...">That's a little too extreme, don't you think?
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Depends on what you throw in there. I've got a system with an overclocked QX6700 and 8800 Ultra SLI with water-cooling, multiple hard drives, and basically about every high-end option you can find. I've measured peak power draw of nearly 800W, and a stock HD 2900 XT uses more power than an 8800 GTX by about 20W at load. Overclock two of those cards, and yes I think you can break 850W power draw.FWIW, idle power draw is 475W on the system, putting 100% load on the CPU takes that up to 625W, and 100% CPU while running 3DMark06 put it at something close to 750-775W (with the average being more like 700W). If I were to manually overclock the GPUs, then I'm sure I could break 800W.
CK804 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
I still call BS on 800. 475 watts idling? That's a little too extreme don't you think? Did you even read the sites I linked to? And what are you measuring with? Your @SS?JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Some people always need proof I suppose.Sitting next to me is a Dell XPS 720 H2C measured at the outlet with a Kill-A-Watt device. The CPU is running at 3.43 GHz with 1.550V. Why should I need to read your links when I've got a system right in front of me generating those numbers? But of course you're right: your linked article must be more accurate than anything we could measure in-house. The Dell has a 1000W power supply, and I'm sure Dell is just being cautious, like they are with their 375W PSUs in the XPS 410.
PS: My ass measured a power output of 1.21GW last I checked. I have to be careful as I don't want to accidentally warp myself through time if I go eat Mexican food. You see, I also have a flux capacitor hardwired into my spine, just in case....
Thanks for reading, though.
CK804 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/100...">AMD 4x4 system with 8800GTX SLI uses 612 watts under full load.JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Overclocking + overvolting will jack up the power draw of the CPU quite a bit. Stock voltage is supposed to be 1.300V (I think) and overclocked it's 1.550V, plus it's running at 3.43 GHz instead of 2.67 GHz. Throw in a water-cooling setup, three hard drives, 4GB RAM, and you get quite a bit more power draw than a stock 4x4 SLI setup.CK804 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Hard drives draw about 10 watts each. That's 30 watts. Each extra memory module will draw about 5 more watts. That's 20 watts. The water pump should draw no more than 10 watts and the fans about 5 watts each. Assuming you're using 2 120mm fans, the extra power draw under a worse case secenario would be 90 watts. So now we move onto the CPU. Are you seriously going to tell me that an overclocked Core 2 Quad consumes 300 watts under load? A Smithfield barely consumed half of 300 watts. I think any CPU would explode if it consumed 300 watts.JarredWalton - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - link
The following is with CrossFire X1950 XTX:QX6700 idle @ 1.60 GHz = 195W (sitting at the desktop)
QX6700 100% CPU load @ 2.67 GHz = 285W (running Folding@Home SMP)
QX6700 100% CPU + 3DMark06 = 488W (Folding@Home SMP and 3DMark06)
QX6700 100% GPU = 441W (running just 3DMark06)
The same system with the processor now overclocked to a 1333 FSB:
QX6700 idle @ 2.00 GHz = 250W (sitting at the desktop)
QX6700 100% CPU load @ 3.33 GHz = 341W (running Folding@Home SMP)
QX6700 100% CPU + 3DMark06 = 545W (Folding@Home SMP and 3DMark06)
QX6700 100% GPU = 476W (running just 3DMark06)
As I mentioned below, if you were to put Radeon HD 2900 XT cards in place of the X1950 XTX cards, it appears the total power draw when running 3D applications would go up almost 150W.
Caligynemania - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Please stop reccomending computer speakers for high end systems. Computer speakers are simply sub-par. Anytime you are spending more than $100 on speakers, people should be looking at Sound&Vision, not Anandtech. Please start advising people to look into real audio solutions rather than the shit for tweets on computer speakers.-Cal
Martimus - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
I agree with you there. Just plug into a good reciever with nice speakers. No need to buy made for computer speakers that are supposedly "high end".maan8517 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
My recommendation for computers would be a sub $100 2-speaker combination for whenever you want to show someone else something on the computer and then burn the money on a good set of headphones. The Sennheiser HD650 for example is excellent for the non-price sensitive, and the Koss Headset SB45 is OK for its very low price.Emryse - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
I have to admit that I am only dissappointed as I've just purchased my new build a few days ago (and therefore makes this article impracticle for me).Other than that - a great article with the usual clear, reasonable explanations for choices made; hey, a few of my components even made the list!
I just wanted to add that you might consider ammending the ASUS P5N32-E mobo to the alternative from the "Striker Extreme" for those who perhaps want the same core experience of that lineup without some of the "extra" features. That is, unless there is some problem with this mobo, in which case I would need to:
a.) hear from you about any problems with the board
b.) return to vendor from whence it came
c.) purchase new board from list
At any rate, thanks and keep it up! (Oh, and welcome aboard Dave!)
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Hi everyone,Say hello to our new contributing editor, Dave Robinet! As always, we welcome your comments and feedback, and hopefully we will be able to get new Buyers' Guides out in a more timely fashion. Try to go easy on him, as we don't want to scare him way after one pilot article. Or just flame away as usual.... ;)
Take care,
Jarred Walton
Senior Editor, Displays and Laptops
http://www.AnandTech.com">http://www.AnandTech.com
Dave Robinet - Thursday, May 31, 2007 - link
Thanks, Jarred, for the introduction, and thanks, everyone for reading and providing comment. :)anandtech02148 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link
Howdy Dave and Jarred,I'm always curious as to what Anandtech recommend for high end or low budget, but how come the high end system never include a LianLi case. Ever sinces the 8800gtx came out with it's arm's length, Lianli case is ready to answer this with it's modular approach.
Also a Lianli's case is fancy on the eyes don't you think?
Just my 2cents, i owned 2 Lianli cases and i'm a big fan of it.
Dave Robinet - Thursday, May 31, 2007 - link
Lian Li cases are great, and that was suggested by a couple of other editors. Cases (assuming they haven't made any catastrophic errors in terms of airflow or quality) generally come down to preference - they could just have easily been included in the Guide.Thanks again!
dave