Lenovo deals mostly with enterprise sales channels and always releases at what appear to be extremely high prices to retail consumers. They then steeply discount to their resellers who in turn sell cheap. Most laptops they releast like a T14s starts at $2500 or more so the fact that these are $1200 and $1700 means that when the supply channels have inventory it will be available for a good deal cheaper than a standard Intel or AMD laptop based laptop.
I dont like that practice, but that is how it works. I do really like Lenovo Laptops.
IMO, these prices are "test the waters" pricing. Currently, the cheapest offering is a Microsoft Surface Laptop with X Plus, 16GB RAM, and 256GB SSD at US$999, but it's coming out at a later date than the X Elite version.
Intel Lunar Lake is Q3 and AMD Strix Point is H2, so a price war could be looming.
I think you're right about "test the waters" pricing, or perhaps you could also say "stimulate the market." Previous ARM mobile systems on Windows have not been perceived as premium items, and haven't sold well; here we have what may well be no-compromise Windows systems with unprecedented battery life, AI, etc. but you still have to convince people to come and get it. Price VERY competitively (but not bargain basement) and you will get people who will experiment.
"Do you really believe the industry will undercut its own existing market?"
It's about the margins. Qualcomm is charging surprisingly low prices for these chips, on top of everything else they bring to the table. Lenovo and others can probably afford to undercut their x86-based systems.
We're an SME. Lenovo pricing is just insane. Prices can vary by 100% between their 'sales' and regular pricing. Makes budgetting a nightmare. They also have a habit (in the UK) of sending flash sale emails to the business store at 4pm on Friday valid until modnight sunday.
Hey Gavin, nice preview but what happened to the i9-14900KS updates?
"Gavin Bonshor - Friday, May 10, 2024 - link Don't worry; I will be testing Intel Default settings, too. I'm testing over the weekend and adding them in..."
Hey, thank you for saying that. They are coming as soon as I can get the data updated. I had to fly out to the USA last Monday evening, and the testing wasn't finished in time. I also don't typically work weekends, but I made an exception in this case. I'm catching up, but don't worry, it will be updated ASAP.
Buzzword powered notebooks! I'm excited! Where do I sign up to be forced to use a phone CPU at a price premium that requires a layer of inefficient software translation to maybe, possibly poorly run my x86 software?
Seriously though, the Oryon CPU is derived from a Nuvia architecture intended for server platforms.
And while there's definitely a large amount of software that's x86 only, there's a good handful of mainstream apps that run ARM natively which cover a good deal of what an average consumer will use day to day (read: browsers).
I admit I'm being a bit silly with the initial comment and you have a valid point. Yes, these are ARM server-derived products with a different intended workload. In the end though, I'm just not seeing many compelling reasons to leave x86 for ARM in the PC space, especially at Lenovo's price point. Why deal with compatibility problems AND spend more money?
Long term: ARM architecture might do for windows/linux what it did for MacOS. Or it might not. We'll have to see?
Short term: Not sure? Maybe if you're a mobile developer who hates apple but really wants native architecture on your emulators? Maybe you use some other niche app that really loves ARM?
Why did I even hope from one leak that these SDX laptops going to cost less considering previous Arm Windows laptops costs around these and well known brand flagship phones costs at least $1k. However, they should copy Apple's playbook of the M1 Air where it was so good for the price when it came out.
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Terry_Craig - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
It seems the right price for us to completely ignore the existence of your product, Qualcomm.goatfajitas - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
Lenovo deals mostly with enterprise sales channels and always releases at what appear to be extremely high prices to retail consumers. They then steeply discount to their resellers who in turn sell cheap. Most laptops they releast like a T14s starts at $2500 or more so the fact that these are $1200 and $1700 means that when the supply channels have inventory it will be available for a good deal cheaper than a standard Intel or AMD laptop based laptop.I dont like that practice, but that is how it works. I do really like Lenovo Laptops.
dysonlu - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
"it will be available for a good deal cheaper than a standard Intel or AMD laptop based laptop"Better but "a good deal cheaper". Do you really believe the industry will undercut its own existing market?
meacupla - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
IMO, these prices are "test the waters" pricing.Currently, the cheapest offering is a Microsoft Surface Laptop with X Plus, 16GB RAM, and 256GB SSD at US$999, but it's coming out at a later date than the X Elite version.
Intel Lunar Lake is Q3 and AMD Strix Point is H2, so a price war could be looming.
Drivebyguy - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
I think you're right about "test the waters" pricing, or perhaps you could also say "stimulate the market." Previous ARM mobile systems on Windows have not been perceived as premium items, and haven't sold well; here we have what may well be no-compromise Windows systems with unprecedented battery life, AI, etc. but you still have to convince people to come and get it. Price VERY competitively (but not bargain basement) and you will get people who will experiment.Threska - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
Maybe being based on Windows 11 might be part of the problem considering it's uptake on x86 isn't much better.https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windo...
Drivebyguy - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
"Do you really believe the industry will undercut its own existing market?"It's about the margins. Qualcomm is charging surprisingly low prices for these chips, on top of everything else they bring to the table. Lenovo and others can probably afford to undercut their x86-based systems.
dontlistentome - Wednesday, May 22, 2024 - link
We're an SME. Lenovo pricing is just insane. Prices can vary by 100% between their 'sales' and regular pricing. Makes budgetting a nightmare.They also have a habit (in the UK) of sending flash sale emails to the business store at 4pm on Friday valid until modnight sunday.
meacupla - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
The cheapest ones are $1099.Acer Swift 14 looks like the best bang for the buck.
BushLin - Monday, May 20, 2024 - link
Hey Gavin, nice preview but what happened to the i9-14900KS updates?"Gavin Bonshor - Friday, May 10, 2024 - link
Don't worry; I will be testing Intel Default settings, too. I'm testing over the weekend and adding them in..."
Gavin Bonshor - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
Hey, thank you for saying that. They are coming as soon as I can get the data updated. I had to fly out to the USA last Monday evening, and the testing wasn't finished in time. I also don't typically work weekends, but I made an exception in this case. I'm catching up, but don't worry, it will be updated ASAP.PeachNCream - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
Buzzword powered notebooks! I'm excited! Where do I sign up to be forced to use a phone CPU at a price premium that requires a layer of inefficient software translation to maybe, possibly poorly run my x86 software?Threska - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
Chicken-egg conundrum is as old as computing.MrCommunistGen - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
Tell that to Apple.MrCommunistGen - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
Seriously though, the Oryon CPU is derived from a Nuvia architecture intended for server platforms.And while there's definitely a large amount of software that's x86 only, there's a good handful of mainstream apps that run ARM natively which cover a good deal of what an average consumer will use day to day (read: browsers).
PeachNCream - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
I admit I'm being a bit silly with the initial comment and you have a valid point. Yes, these are ARM server-derived products with a different intended workload. In the end though, I'm just not seeing many compelling reasons to leave x86 for ARM in the PC space, especially at Lenovo's price point. Why deal with compatibility problems AND spend more money?grant3 - Friday, June 7, 2024 - link
Long term: ARM architecture might do for windows/linux what it did for MacOS. Or it might not. We'll have to see?Short term: Not sure? Maybe if you're a mobile developer who hates apple but really wants native architecture on your emulators? Maybe you use some other niche app that really loves ARM?
grant3 - Friday, June 7, 2024 - link
maybe wait to see prices & benchmarks before jumping to conclusions about "price premium" "running poorly" blah blah.And if they are indeed expensive & overpowered... they won't be the only ones. No big deal if that's the case.
zodiacfml - Tuesday, May 21, 2024 - link
Why did I even hope from one leak that these SDX laptops going to cost less considering previous Arm Windows laptops costs around these and well known brand flagship phones costs at least $1k.However, they should copy Apple's playbook of the M1 Air where it was so good for the price when it came out.